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tv   The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart  MSNBC  October 31, 2021 7:00am-9:00am PDT

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eastern. "the sunday show" with jonathan capehart begins right now. it is october 31st. i'm jonathan capehart this is "the sunday show." the g-20 summit is wrapping up today in rome. just moments ago, president biden announced a new deal with the european union on tariffs on steel and aluminum. other big accomplishments from the summit include a monumental pact between all g-20 leaders to establish a 15% global corporate tax which would juice revenue for the president's domestic build back better agenda in a big way. and the possible reignition of nuclear talks with iran. standing with his fellow leaders of the west, the president gave what appeared to be the first public confirmation the united states is actively working to
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bring iran back to the negotiating table. >> mr. president, when would you like talks with iran to resume? >> back at home though the wins for the president aren't forth coming. brand-new polling from nbc news released this morning finds the president's approval rating has dropped seven points since august to 42%. it also reveals that more than 7 in 10 surveyed believe the country is heading in the wrong direction. which raises the question for democrats, will the president's sagging numbers be an albatross for them in tuesday's critically important elections for governor in virginia and new jersey? don't be surprised if a bunch of democratic retirements are announced in the house if terry mcauliffe loses in virginia. but one republican house member isn't waiting. congressman adam kinzinger of illinois, a member of the january 6th select committee, and trump nemesis, announced that he won't run for
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re-election in next november. >> if i ever thought it was time to move on from congress, i would. and that time is now. >> congressional redistricting would have forced kinzinger to run against and trumper congressman darren lahood who most recently showed us how seriously he takes his job by voting against holding steve bannon in contempt of congress. elsewhere in trump land, an email reportedly sent by trump lawyer john eastman who also wrote the two-page blueprint for the attempted january 6th coup is raising eyebrows. according to "the washington post," as then vice president mike pence hid from the crowds calling to hang him, eastman sent an email to pence's chief council greg jacob appearing to blame the violent mob on jacob and pence for failing to, quote, do what was necessary. nbc news has not yet seen the email. naturally and likely in the
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interest of protecting his law license, eastman denies he was implicating pence. the supreme court will take on two major cases this week. tomorrow the justices will hear arguments in the challenge to texas' regressive abortion law. then on wednesday, they will hear arguments in a gun control case involving concealed carry laws. the responses could dramatically reshape day to day life for hundreds of millions of americans. but all eyes are focused on what is slated to happen on tuesday, back across the street at the capitol. a vote, on both the bipartisan infrastructure framework and the build back better plan. progressive house democrats are signaling they could be on board to help net the president a win. >> very shortly we will deliver both the infrastructure bill and the remarkably transformational build back better act.
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>> provided, of course, they get their, quote, iron clad commitments from the centrist holdouts, senators joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. and so far both senators have stayed relatively mum on whether or not their vote on build back better is a yes. joining me now, congresswoman madeleine dean, vice chair of the house judiciary committee, and a member of the financial services committee, and the progressive caucus. welcome back to "the sunday show." >> good to be with you. >> i have to show you this headline that was in "politico," we'll put it up here. according to -- it is according to "politico," congresswoman jayapal pushed ron complain to not have president biden push for a vote on bif and build back better. did you know about that phone call? >> no, i didn't. i did see the reporting. but i do know that the
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congresswoman has been working closely with the white house, with the president, i'm sure with the chief of staff to bring forward the arguments of the progressive caucus. i did not know about that phone call. but what i do know is that the president came to caucus on thursday and said we had a deal. and he laid out the entire framework of the deal. he then also went into the infrastructure bill, pointing out the extraordinarily important investments in both bills, how transformational they will be here for the united states of america, for our children, for our seniors, for our planet, and he said i need your vote. with that, he received a standing ovation in the caucus and off he went to rome. >> one of the things in that meeting that didn't happen according to reports is that the president did not explicitly ask that the two bills be voted on at the same time and that the speaker had to step in there -- or had to step in there and say,
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no, no, no, let's vote for bif right now. also in that politico story i put up on the screen, there is a little nugget in there about another phone call that happened, this time between the president of the united states on his way to rome, 40,000 feet in the air, and to one congresswoman madeleine dean. why did he call you? that's the only call, apparently, that's been noted. >> well, and i'm not the one who revealed that. so good reporting whoever got that. they must have heard me enthusiastically saying, you're not going to believe it but the president called me from air force one. he had seen me talking about and celebrating what we are going to pass in these two bills. and so he called me to say i just saw you on your competitor, and i want to thank you for the arguments you're making about this generational investment, both in infrastructure and in build back better. we had a remarkable conversation. it is one i will never forget. but what i do want to point out
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is while it is intriguing to pay attention to the calendar and the days and the hours of this very long labor that i call it, around the birth of these two bills, in the end, what i am confident about and this comes from experience is we will -- our long labor will fade from memory, but what will be lasting, what we will remember is the investment in our children, in our seniors, in our planet. so the conversation with the president was an absolute joy, we got it talk about his meeting with the pope that was coming up, i said that the pope uses his priesthood for the children and for the planet. so you and he have so much in common as you use your presidency for the children and the planet. it was an absolute joy to speak with the president any day of the week, but from air force one, oh, my goodness, i'm still on cloud nine. >> congresswoman dean, you mentioned that the long labor, people will fade from view and
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folks will focus on what is in the actual law. that requires a vote to actually happen for the bills to become -- to get to the president's desk, for him to sign into law. will that vote happen on tuesday? it is slated for tuesday, but is it really going to happen? >> i'm not the floor leader. i'm not the whip, nor the speaker. i'll leave the calendar to them. i have a real optimism that it will happen this week. i don't know the exact date of delivery. what is in it, though, is what is so exciting. let me feature a couple of thins i care very much about. universal pre-k and child care. that's $400 billion to make sure we start every child off on the very best footing. some other things in it that i care very much about, housing, $150 billion for housing. my constituents, i have many seniors in long waiting lists for affordable housing, that will build more than a million housing units across this country, making a difference in
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people's lives. climate. $555 billion for the protection of our planet. if we don't get climate right, if we don't protect our planet, none of the rest of this will work. and so what i care about is you see here, democrats governing, republicans -- i don't know what they're doing, frankly, but we are governing and we have an administration that cares about the people, the many, the children, the vulnerable, the poor, and the planet. >> congresswoman, you're a former house impeachment manager, i would love to get your viewpoint on what's going on with john eastman and the january 6th select committee. the expectation that he is going to be subpoenaed by that committee. should he be subpoenaed? why would it be important for this select committee to hear from this person who had advised then president trump? >> well, what we know is he participated in the rally.
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alongside the president. that incited a riot. we also know that three days before the insurrection he came to the president -- with the president, came to mike pence, coming up with a two-page memo to have mike pence undo the electoral slates that were coming from states. something mike pence had no ability to do. mr. eastman provided some pretty horrendous counsel to the president and to others in the white house. it will be very important for the committee to get the truth of what he was trying to do and what he was trying to undo alongside a president desperate to cling to power, desperate to not admit his loss and desperate to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. he was not successful. although we did suffer our country suffered an insurrection. our country suffered an attack
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by americans, brandishing trump flags and american flags, an attack on americans on our seat of government while the vice president was there, while everybody in the line of succession was there. the vice president, the speaker of the house, every member of congress, it was a grave day and mr. eastman is a player in it and we'll need to know what he did, what advice he gave and what incitement he offered. >> congresswoman, thank you very, very much for coming back to "the sunday show." >> thank you for having me, jonathan. coming up, my one on one interview with new york city mayoral candidate eric adams is next. with just two days to go before election day. don't go anywhere. on day don't go anywhere.
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[ eerie music playing ] trick or treat! ♪ ♪ he is coming for me... but i'm coming for him. happy halloween michael. crime and gang violence has exploded. you haven't done your job, eric. >> you're acting like my son when he was 4 years old. show some discipline so we can get to all of these issues. >> do you stand by your comments about him being a clown and a
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bufoon. >> i think new york has seen the clown-like actions. >> how dare you bring my family into this. >> it is nice to see both of you laughing and being gentle and kind to each other. i appreciate that. >> the mayoral candidates, a 40 point lead for democratic candidate eric adams over his republican challenger curtis sliwa. adams, the brooklyn borough president, former state senator and police captain, could be inheriting a city that is still dealing with the effects of the pandemic and a worker shortage as thousands refuse to comply with the vaccine mandate for city employees. joining me now, the democratic candidate for mayor of new york city, eric adams. eric, i haven't seen you in a long time. welcome to "the sunday show." >> hey, good to see you.
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you know, and speak with you. it has been many years you know. >> many, many years. so we're just days away from the people of the city of new york voting, you've got a huge lead over curtis sliwa. i'm going to get you to do something that you probably won't, but i'm going to try. if you succeed in becoming the next mayor of new york city, what will the first 100 days look like? what is your top -- what are your top priorities? >> it is so important as you stated. i still have to win the race, you don't want win a baseball game in the eighth inning. we still have one more inning to go on november 2nd and we want to motivate new yorkers to come out because curtis is a dangerous person for our city. his atmosphere would happen in early january, december. i mean, january to the washington. that's the same energy he brings to our city. i'm going to focus on, number one, public safety.
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public safety is a prerequisite to prosperity, safety and justice will go together. our city is going to be safe, we're zeroing in on gun violence, and we institute a plain clothes anti-gun unit so we can deal with this issue. we have to grow our economy. we must get people back to work. and to assure that the ecosystem of our financial ecosystem is a healthy one and we have several plans that we're going to put in place to keep people employed, to connect with our business community in the city and we must tackle covid. as a formidable opponent with nationally and the best weapon for coronavirus is the vaccine. we must get all new yorkers vaccinated and the booster shot for those who are eligible for it. >> you know, we just put up on this screen, you know, a poll,
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an emerson poll of what new yorkers care about. crime was number one, your number one thing you listed. jobs is number three. you talked about the economy. covid is your third concern. it is number four on here. but the number two concern that everyone can see right there, 19% is homelessness. what are your plans for that? >> and a lot of that homelessness that you are talking about is the visible homelessness. if you do a real analysis of it, it is dealing with mental health issues. and we have to combat it finally. get out of the business of congregate shelters who many people who are dealing with mental health issues, they don't want to be there. i have been listening to some of the experts for the last two and a half years and one piqued my interest and that is the fountain house. i'm bringing on board, he's going to be one of my top advisers, they have an 85%
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stability rate with street homelessness, building trust, giving them wrap around services. we can't have a city where you see encampments throughout our city and business district. we must get people permanent housing. there is no dignity allowing people to sleep on the street. i'm going to zero in on that because you know what, jonathan, it also impacts our subway system. you're seeing some of the issues around public safety and the subway system that is preventing people from coming back and getting in their office spaces, it is due to so many issues with those homeless in our subway system. >> you served in the nypd for 22 years. and i'm wondering how do you think that experience will shape you if on tuesday the people of new york make you the next mayor of the big apple? >> i love that question. because, you know, many people would miss how that was the
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proper training ground for me. i state this quote all the time from archbishop desmond tutu, we spend a lifetime pulling people out the river, no one goes upstream and prevent them from falling in in the first place. i saw those who fell in the river downstream on patrol. i saw children living in nyc ha developments, sleeping on crates. you don't educate, you will incarcerate. i saw failing healthcare systems when i responded to hospitals and realize we have a sick care system and not a healthcare system in our city. and country. so the preparation of what i witnessed downstream is now preparing me to take my city upstream. cities are made up of agencies. and if those agencies are siloed and creating a crisis, no matter how much we pay in taxes, we're going to continue to get an
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inferior product. we'll have an upstream government here to prevent the issues and not respond to them downstream that i saw on patrol as a police officer and captain for 22 years. >> brooklyn borough president eric adams, on the cusp, with a 40-point lead, of becoming the next mayor of the city of new york. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you. good seeing you. hope to see you soon! let's grab coffee? >> let's great. i'll call you. maybe we'll do it at city hall. all right, eric, thank you very much. coming up, the supreme court will hear arguments on two of the most contentious topics in the country. abortion and guns. stay with us. country. abortion and guns. stay with us
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this week, the supreme court will hear arguments in high profile cases that could decide the future of abortion rights and gun control. first up on monday, the texas abortion law. in a brief submit ahead of tomorrow's hearing, the federal
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government accused texas of nullifying court precedent in a brazen attack on the supremacy of federal law. then on wednesday, the court will hear a challenge to a 108-year-old new york law that requires a license to carry a firearm, which could give the court the chance to gut local and state gun regulation at a time when gun deaths are reaching new highs. joining me now, civil rights attorney maya wily and director of the center for medicine, health and society at vanderbilt university, dr. jonathan metzel, author of "the dying of whiteness." two of my favorite people in the whole wide world. i'm glad to have you on to talk about these two important issues. maya, the abortion arguments are tomorrow, they're on monday. why is -- why should we be watching with great interest this case on monday?
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>> well, wonderful to be with you, jonathan. i miss and love you too. but, look, the reason this is so important is it is kind of like since we're approaching halloween, so you know when scary movies when the scary music starts building and you know someone's about to get ax murdered, that's essentially the music we should be hearing right now before this monday argument. because what is going to happen is two cases coming out of the texas abortion ban, the bans on women's bodies that said, okay, we as the state won't tell you can't get an abortion, we'll say anybody, whether they know you or not, whether they have any connection to you or not, can sue a provider and get damages because you want to have an abortion. and what that has done is brought virtually to a stand still all abortions in the state of texas. now, this case is going to be procedural, but what it is going
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to -- what that procedure is important -- because it is going to determine whether or not the state of texas can get away with intentionally trying to undermine a constitutional right that the supreme court upheld in 1973. and say we're going to pretend you have the constitutional right, but we're going to let states copycat this law and essentially create an end run around the constitutional rights of people who otherwise would have -- abortion and that will be a bellwether for what happens on december 1st when they take up the mississippi case, which goes the direct run against roe v. wade. that's why the building horror music. it won't be the end of it, but it is going to signal how we should fear or feel about the december 1st beginning of that case argument. >> and you talked about the impact of the texas law on
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abortions in texas. in state abortion in texas is down 50% between september 2021 and last september of 2020. and then in terms of the impact on the law, you know, the justice department in its brief, they wrote and i quote, if texas is right, no decision of this court is safe, states need not comply with or even challenge precedence with which they disagree. on texas' telling, some one could stop the resulting nullification of the constitution. for those of us who are able to get married to our same sex partners, that is a concern. jonathan, let's turn to guns. and you have written a big piece for the boston globe about the upcoming arguments on wednesday, and you believe that those arguments on wednesday in this
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case depending on how the supreme court rules could have an incredible impact on the american people. talk more. >> well, we just heard eric adams say that people in new york and the eight or nine other states that would be impacted by this ruling are not running out and saying we want more guns. people are saying we want safety, we want to be able to like any city or state in this country should be able to control the flow of weapons reasonably within our cities or states. that's what democracy stands for. people get it decide for their own locales. what is at stake in this case really is a 1913 gun law, it has been on the record as you say for over a century, which basically says not everyone can carry a gun into a subway, into a bar, into central park, into times square on new year's eve, that basically the city determines who gets to carry a weapon based on the need of that
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person. is that person being stalked. is that person robbed? is that person a private detective? if someone feels like they need a gun, they shouldn't get to carry one. the reason this is important, two main reasons. number one is this case has been on the books for as we say over a century, but it taps into three 300 years of precedence in this country that says on one hand, yes, you have a second amendment right to carry a weapon, to own a weapon in your home, not to carry it in public. that wasn't true in the wild west. it wasn't true in the frontier. it wasn't true after the civil war. all these factors. so there is tons of precedent here that says that locales can regulate guns in public. and the second reason this is important is because the minute you open the door, and start telling people that you can carry a gun if you fear you might get attacked, i have a great book, dying of whiteness, as you said, and tons of other data, that the minute people
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start projecting saying, i'm going to carry a gun because something might happen, it opens the door to tribalism, racial stereotypes, conflict, all these things that are the complete antithesis, the data could not be more clear, the complete antithesis of the safety you need in urban areas like eric adams was talking about. >> you know, as you were talking about that, the reasonable fear standard, which is so broad, it took me back to the whole stand your ground issue in the killing of trayvon martin, where -- what is it called, the castle doctrine, it was supposed to pertain to when you're inside your home, your home is your castle, but florida turned your castle follows you no matter where you go. so the idea that people could just say, i'm reasonably afraid something might happen to me, and the supreme court might say, yeah, that's fine, that's good enough, here's your gun. and remind me, isn't it texas
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that just instituted a law where you don't have to -- you don't have to have a license, right? >> the case like this is in a way a starter drug. the minute you overturn the permit process, you say a locale has no ability to regulate. it is like saying everybody drive, you don't need a driver's license or insurance or anything like that. that's what's happening here. we have seen in missouri and tennessee and texas all the places that have done what the court is considering nationalizing, that it opens the door for a bunch of stuff. i think florida as you were saying, texas, great examples, because the minute you start letting people project fear, research -- sociological research is quite clear about this, they start to project racial stereotypes. things like, oh, you know, that gang banger might attack me, i'll carry a weapon and all these kind of things. in the boston review piece i wrote, i have that literature. this really has very serious implications for public safety, for public trust, and for the
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kind of fabric that you need in a place like new york, so people can co-habitate and get along. >> that scary music that maya talked about at the beginning of the segment has gotten a lot louder after this conversation. maya, dr. jonathan metzel, thank you for coming back to "the sunday show." the case of claudette coleman, a 15-year-old arrested for not giving up her seat on a montgomery bus a year before rosa parks made history. 66 years later, coleman is still on probation. montgomery mayor steven reed joins us next in the efforts to clear her name. joins us next in the efforts to clear her name there is something i want to ask you. umm, it's a little soon... the new iphone 13 pro is here. what do you say, switch to t-mobile with me?
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delinquent. jim crow -- i was not going to do that. i told them that history had -- it is not over. we still have to -- for our freedom and our rights. >> just nine months before rosa parks refused to give up her seat to a white man, and sparked the montgomery bus boycotts, 15-year-old claudette colvin was arrested for refusing to give up her seat to a white woman.
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she was dragged off the bus and given indefinite probation. now 66 years later colvin is asking that her record finally be expunged. joining me now, the mayor of montgomery, alabama, steven l. reed. mayor reed, welcome to "the sunday show." >> thank you for having me. >> all right. why is this finally happening now, mayor reed? >> well, jonathan, this is something i wanted to do for some time and when i came into office, i really wanted to correct the record. for a number of our civil rights heroes and i always believed that as the birth place of the civil rights movement, montgomery had a place to really set the tone for how we honor those who sacrificed so much. and when we came in, we thought that it was a municipal issue and i could just address it that way and what we found out was that it was a juvenile court
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issue and that as mayor i had no authority where that was concerned. we then moved to try to address that, and through one of my staff members working with the colvin family, we were able to kind of take this process, as tedious as it is, and move this forward and we're ultimately able to align this with miss colvin and attorney fred gray being in the city at the same time when we're honoring attorney gray by renaming jefferson davis avenue after him, and addressing the probation with miss colvin. we got the support of the district attorney, and we feel great about where that is right now. >> and i was about to bring up fred gray, attorney gray who is the man, we have been showing pictures of miss colvin throughout your answer and the man next to her to the left of her on the screen is fred gray. and you did rename jefferson davis avenue for fred gray.
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here is the question, isn't that against the law in alabama? >> well, it might be. but i think there is something to be said about, you know, civil disobedience and challenging unjust laws and this is just another one that alabama has on the books. and, listen, we understand that, you know, there are those who are concerned about history, there are those who are concerned about embracing diversity and inclusion, and recognizing the contribution above us. ultimately what we have to see is that what hurts one hurts us all and if we're to be able to rebuild the chasm that exists in our nation, we have to do that at the city level, at the state level, and at the national level. that includes not just symbolic gestures, which are very, very important. gestures do matter. it also means systemic change. i think attorney gray addressed that, even as a 91-year-old attorney in his remarks about
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still challenging racism and inequality in this country. we want mound not montgomery to be seen as the birth play of the civil rights movement and also remains the soul of the south as it always has been, a new and better community, now and better state and nation. >> the alabama memorial preservation act prohibits what you did and you could face a fine of $25,000. it prohibits the relocation, removal, alteration, renaming of any monument located on public property and it has been on the books for more than 40 years. you are the first black mayor of montgomery, alabama. you are montgomery native. i was just there interviewing brian stevenson. just wondering, what impact has
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the equal justice initiative which brian stevenson is the founder and leader of, also the legacy museum, and the national memorial for peace -- to peace and justice, which is known as the lynching memorial. what kind of impact have those two institutions had on your city. >> the impact has been immeasurable. brian stevenson, they have forced us to put a mirror not only to the face of the city, but to the state and this nation. i think that's why over a million people come annually to visit this memorial to learn more about the legacy of slavery, to mass incarceration. and as brian has stated before, you know, there were no slave markers when he came to montgomery 30 years ago. and they were all these monuments of the confederacy. what we're trying to do now from the place of city hall is to take that energy, to take those lessons and to make sure we are
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addressing this, not only again for those that are within the state, those that may visit, but to set the tone for this nation. we have to make sure that as city leaders, and as a community, that has so much history, that we're putting that into practice every day. and it is not just enough for us to have the museum there, and we want people to learn more about it, learn more about the nation's history with racism. we want the people to learn more about the nation's domestic terrorism. we want people to learn about all these things and how they continue to impact inequality today around this nation. doesn't matter what city you live in or what state you live in, its messages are still there and we have to continue to work to address those, or else we will not have been carrying the baton as we should that has been passed on to us. >> three things to tell you real
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fast before we go. one, if you have not heard it, google this song by monique bingham called "claudette." in honor of claudette colvin. two, that blazer you're wearing is bad. you need to tell me where you got it. and, three, when i was in -- when i was in montgomery to interview brian stevenson, you came into the hotel -- the restaurant of the hotel write was staying and glad handing your way through the room, i didn't get a chance to say hi, if it happens again, i'll get up from my table and say hi to the mayor of montgomery, alabama. steven reed. thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> thank you. come back and see us again in montgomery. >> will do. coming up, the latest in our on the run series, a former cia operative and independent 2016 presidential candidate vying for a seat in the united states senate from utah. you see him there. my interview with evan mcmullen is next. my interview with evan mcmullen is next.
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our streets are on firement the extremes in washington don't represent utah, they prevent us from governing ourselves and they jeep or daze our democracy. >> now the outspoken trump critic is running as a senator. he's trying to unseat mike lee. joining me now, utah u.s. senate candidate evan mcmullin. welcome to "the sunday show." why run? >> great to be with you, jonathan. >> thanks. why run, especially against someone who won re-election with 70% of the vote? >> he did, but i'll tell you, he
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is underwater. he is unpopular in utah. pulling in 45% approval. only 17% of utahans support him. he advised donald trump's frivolous challenges to the election that we know were part of an effort to overturn our democratic republic and he voted against the january 6th commission and holding trump accountable as well. so, look, we've got to make a change here. the majority of utahans would like to make a change. the challenge, jonathan, disaffected or principled republicans don't have the votes to do it. democrats on their own don't have the votes to do it and neither do independents. what our campaign is about is uniting people in those three silos and among third parties bringing everyone together who wants to make a change, who wants to send better, more effective, more unifying
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leadership to fix our broken politics in washington. we're uniting those people to make a change here and that's the only way to do it. democrats aren't competitive in statewide races in utah. there isn't a major democrat in the race so the only way to do this, the only way to protect our democratic republic here is if we unite. that's what our campaign is about. we're inviting everyone regardless of party affiliation to join us. >> i want to point out when you ran in 2016 as an independent in utah, you did incredibly well. you came within six points of hillary clinton, president trump then donald trump won your state but you got 21% of the vote in the campaign that you have already begun, what are you hearing real quickly from utah voters right now? >> i think what i'm hearing is
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that they see the opportunity to make a change. a majority of them want to do that. there hasn't been a path because everybody's working in their own silos. just principled republicans working inside the republican primary. they just don't have the votes. democrats if they were to nominate a major candidate to try to do this, they wouldn't have the votes either. independents are disorganized. so what we're doing is recognizing that reality and saying we're going to unite these groups because they form a majority that would like to make a change. they saw what happened on january 6th. they know our democratic republic is at risk so they see opportunity here and have hope, whereas, before they didn't. they didn't have cause to have that hope. so we're inviting people to come to and join us. >> evan, if you are elected, you would be elected as an independent. which party would you caucus
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with? >> i'm going to be a true independent. that's the only way to build this coalition and it's the only way to win and it's the way that i can best represent a majority of utahans, not one extremist faction of a party but all utahans. that's the only way i can do it. if i'm going to caucus with one side or the other, i won't be able to build that. i'm going to be independent. i'll work with republicans and democrats who want to do good things for utahans and the area. i want to lower the cost of health care, respond to climate change, doing something about our exploding national debt and the inflation that now middle class families like mine and others who strongly believe in more are really having a hard time now. we've got to overcome these challenges and the only way to do it is to work together.
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in utah mike lee is out of step with that. that's the kind of leadership i want to send on utah's behalf. >> evan, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." this gives me an opportunity to do what i haven't had a chance to do and that is wish you congratulations on your marriage. you are going to be celebrating your fifth month anniversary next week. so evan mcmullin, you've already won in that regard. thank you very, very much for coming to "the sunday show." coming up in our next hour, an election preview. could the outcome of tuesday's elections be an omen of what's to come in 2022? plus, my interview with new jersey governor phil murphy. ready to sound off to the other sunday shows. don't go anywhere. so much after the break. amazon prime members get select meds as low as $1 a month.
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welcome back to "the sup show." i'm jonathan cape heart. it's election day on tuesday. polls show democrat terry mcauliffe and glenn youngkin in a dead heat with a slight edge in favor of youngkin with an average of polls compiled by 538. on monday donald trump is expected to call into a telerally to shore up votes from
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his supporters. trump is already claiming credit should youngkin emerge victorious. >> i think if my base doesn't come out, he can't win. i think my base has to come out very strongly. >> the virginia race is a win that democrats sorrily need as president biden's approval numbers slip. votes on the two infrastructure bills aren't expected until tuesday, but is the outcome of this race really a bell weather for maintaining the democrat's slim majority in congress? joining me now, senator tim kaine of virginia. ten tore cain, welcome back to the sunday show. you are the current senator from virginia but you were the democratic vice presidential nominee. you were the former chair of the democratic committee and a former democratic governor. you know all about the commonwealth and the party and its standing nationwide. how concerned are you about the
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president's job approval rating dropping to 42% and the impact that might have on tuesday's election in virginia? >> jonathan, i'm thrilled to be with you this morning. look, i'm nervous about the race and less about joe biden than as this is how virginia races go. what we see in virginia, you have a presidential race and the turnout in virginia is about 70% and then the next year is a governor's race and the turnout drops down to 47 or 45 or 42. that drop in turnout always has a little bit more of a negative effect on democrats than it does on republicans. our voters are good in presidential years and sometimes tend to back off in
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nonpresidential years. all of these races are close. so, look, it's going to be a nail biter. that's why we're all out campaigning. the one x factor this year where we have no real basis of comparison is with two democratic houses we embraced 45 days of early voting in person or by mail. we've gone from one of the hardest states in the nation to vote to one of the most convenient states in the nation to vote and early indications are over a million people have already voted. those votes lean heavily democratic. that's 'tiff. that could be an x factor in a close race for us. >> you know, senator, a lot of the conversation leading up to this race is about oh, my god, democrats are unenthusiastic. glenn youngkin, this is his tired way of reporting about
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democrats. >> well, i think it's maybe a little bit of both, jonathan. backing off a little bit. they're not. i will say this. republicans are very hungry. virginia's not a blue state. we were redder than red when i got into state politics. we have not lost a statewide race, presidential, federal, state for a dozen years now. this is virginia. republicans are hungry. i'll give that to them. they want to get out of the losers column and find the win one. we do see that out there. i will say as somebody who's been doing a lot of campaigning, both for terry mcauliffe but also house and delegates candidates, we're seeing good crowds and the one really solid bit of early data you can count on is early vote performance and it's been very strong for
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democrats. >> speaking of, you know, republicans being hungry for a win, one of the ways glenn youngkin has been trying to stoke that hunger is by doing things like oh, i don't know supporting the banning of beloved. terry mcauliffe was asked about this on "meet the press" this morning. have a listen. >> now of all the hundreds of books you could look at, why did you take the one black female author? why did you do it? he's ending his campaign on a racist dog whistle like when he started the campaign when he talked about election integrity. >> glenn youngkin focuses on beloved and tony morrison. is terry mcauliffe's response to that going right at it and talking about the racism in that, is that something that will work for terry mcauliffe in getting democratic voters stoked
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and energized to go into the voting booth on tuesday? >> jonathan, look, terry is correct. if you look at the youngkin campaign, they've made it about kind of invented inflated issues like critical race theory and to close their campaign with an ad featuring a parent who waged a campaign against tony morrison's novel "beloved," it's just kind of unheard of. it's unheard of and it hark jins back to a long tradition in virginia history. my father-in-law was the governor who ended segregation in virginia, integrated public schools and he was hated for it at the time in the 1970s. he died just three days ago and people are writing about how courageous he is. lynnwood was 98 years old. he thought he had helped virginia turn away from dog whistles and appeals to segregationist attitudes.
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glenn youngkin's preaching of the big lie about electoral fraud and copying donald trump's line, which he started the campaign with and now at the end featuring the -- this activist who went against toni morrison's book "beloved" it's harkening back to a day gone by in virginia. it was a strategy that used to be successful but i do see democrats very much being reminded of why we turned away from that kind of politics. we've made such progress and we want to keep the progress going, not fall back into this kind of division that opens up all of this scar tissue and wounds that virginia has experienced so plentifully. >> to be clear, race theory isn't taught. and senator cain, my con dole lenses and yours to your family
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and to your wife who lost your father. senator tim cape for coming back to "the sunday show." rachel, i'm going to start with you. what's going to happen on tuesday in virginia, you are the election forecastor. >> yeah.
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>> to me, we're getting out of horse race on what we can reasonably expect. this was always going to be a close race. as senator kaine discussed, you don't get 70% turnout in the off year cycles. i think the polls are telling us what we were going to see. there is a small institutionalization over the last decade which is so much easier to vote in virginia. the question is, in the best
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circumstances they have, can the gop regain competition here in the commonwealth? if they can't, this is going to be a stating to realign. >> fernand, i was struck by how often, how many times senator kaine kept coming after the early vote looked encouraging. >> i think the senator is right. it's much easier to vote and vote early for longer periods of time. one of the thing i didn't hear as much coming out of senator kaine's analysis was what worked for gavin newsom which could have been a harbinger for 2022.
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had california gone down or been lost, then it would have been a major problem for the democrats. what senator kaine didn't mention was disgally fieg senator youngkin. in 2020, donald trump was on the ballot and people could express their disenchantment with him. this time they have allowed a quote, unquote, regular republican to be the choice and not disqualify him as a member of the party that led an attempted coupon, that has supported a big lie, that has tried to undo american democracy. that's a big mistake. this is a nightmare on
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pennsylvania avenue for democrats. there's been a 25% swing. he was plus 13, down 12. this seems to be tied with the lowest job rating point of proikd's presidency. why can the democrats turn that around? on tuesday, election day, you will finally see reconciliation passed. inbe from structure deal passed. by the end of next year kids can get vaccinations. and if the economy turns around, covid is handled a year from now, that will be a much different message than what these headwinds the democrats are facing going into tuesday's election. >> we are out of time but it sounds to me, fernand, what you're saying is no matter what happens in virginia on tuesday, it's not going to have an impact if all those things you just talked about happen, will not
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have an impact on the mid terms in 2022. just nod yes or no if i got that right. >> i'm going no. >> it's determinative. >> rachel, fast. real fast. your rebuttal. >> i'm going with the dog disagrees. i'll have that out on "the cycle" later today or early in the morning. it will show why virginia is definitely still a bell weather. >> i can't wait to read that. >> thanks for the setup there, fernand. >> thank you both very much for coming to "the sunday show." we've been talking a lot about virginia. there may be another bell weather. new jersey. new jersey governor phil murphy is here. stay with us. like subway®. like the new baja steak & jack tender, thicker-cut steak and. wait sooo you're not coming out of retirement? i'm just here because subway has so much new, they bought time in this press conference to talk about it.
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with much of the election excitement this week directed at the gubernatorial race in virginia, it's easy to overlook
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the race for new jersey governor also happening tuesday. but its outcome is an equally important barometer of democrats' staying power looking ahead to next november's mid terms. we have the history making potential writing in "the new republic" if phil murphy holds his lead and wins, he'll be the first new jersey democratic governor to be re-elected in decades. joining me is democratic new jersey democrat, phil murphy who's running for a second term. welcome back to "the sunday show." >> thank for having me, jonathan. good to be back. >> i'm not hearing the governor and i don't know -- he can hear me. we'll try to fix our audio. i want to read you something else while we do that that dean obidala wrote. the last time a democratic governor won re-election, the top film was "star wars," the original. disco ruled the air waves and social media was using a rotary
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phone. that year was 1977 but new jersey governor phil murphy is on the verge of ending that 44 year democratic governor curse and he's doing so, this is the key part, he's doing so by following the democratic playbook. he raised taxes on the wealthy, provided free community college, and followed strict covid guidelines including vaccine mandates. he's saying that if you win, as seems expected judging by the polls, if you win on tuesday, that your race is the one that people should focus on in the mid term -- for a harbinger of the mid terms in 2022. what do you make of that? >> first of all, jonathan, can you hear me? >> yes, i can. thank you, governor. >> fantastic. good to be back. coming at you, by the way, not too far from where you grew up. i'm in elizabeth right now. >> all right. >> we take nothing for granted so we're still playing the game
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here. i'm running -- if you followed me around this weekend, you'd think i was ten points behind. we're not going to let up until we sprint through the tape on tuesday night. having said that, you know, we inherited a state that did not grow and was profoundly unfair and we said from moment one we're going to take steps that make new jersey stronger and fairer and that includes things like tax equity, it includes things like raising the minimum wage, equal pay for equal work, criminal justice reform, funding public education, investing in communities like newark and elizabeth which are extraordinary communities in many respects as they go, we go. that's what we've been about from moment one. we've said, listen, i'm worried about the next generation, not my next election. we'll let the chips fall where they may. we'll see what the final score is but i'm proud of what we're running on. >> we've talked all morning
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about president biden's job approval rating has dropped 7 points since august to 42 points, but there on the screen we're showing right now your approval rating in the latest monmouth university poll is 10 points higher than the president's. your job approval rating is 52%. you're both democrats. the same agenda. why do you think you're more popular than the president? >> i don't spend a lot of time, i have to admit, looking at polls. by the way, i will always stand by this president. we very proudly hosted the president last monday to look at softer human infrastructure in a pre-k class and getting a bridge project underway. perhaps it is because we are doing in new jersey what is being discussed and debated in congress. we're at an all-time investment
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in hard infrastructure in our state and at the same time we're doing a lot of stuff, if not all of that stuff, that's in the reconciliation package. expanding pre-k, expanding child care, funding public education, making affordable housing more available. making college more available. big climate stuff in new jersey. i would just say it's not speculation whether or not this stuff works. it's working. we know for sure. forget the politics. we're changing people's lives in new jersey. we know it to be the case so in some respects maybe we're the canary in the coal mine as they say. >> in the minute that we have left, governor, what's your closing argument to the people of new jersey to give you a second term? because in 48 hours they're going to go into the voting booths and they're going to make a decision. why should they give you a second term? >> yeah. number one, jonathan, we've turned the state around.
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we used to be on lists that we department want to be on. we're now getting on lists safest state in america. number one state in america to raise a family and live in. we have to keep moving forward. we cannot slip backward. i'm running against somebody who would take us back to the days in new jersey when it worked for the wealthy and well connected but not for the rest of us. we can't let that happen. forward, stronger, fairer, forward. that's what our mantra is. god willing, we'll be successful. >> governor phil murphy of the great state of new jersey. thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." we did invite republican candidate jack chiatarelli but never heard back. my interview with jennifer granholm on the rough new poll numbers and the looming infrastructure vote. don't want to miss that.
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president biden will still be in scotland on tuesday discussing the climate crisis with his international counterpart when the house plans to vote on his ambitious social spending bill and bipartisan infrastructure bill. all of this as biden's approval rating is at 42%. how's the administration reacting? i spoke with energy secretary jennifer granholm this morning. welcome to "the sunday show." >> thank you so much. >> there's a vote set for tuesday on the build back better agenda. also perhaps the bipartisan infrastructure bill. why is it imperative that these bills get voted on and become law? >> well, clearly it contains so much to love. so, for example, can i just give you a couple examples? if you are a parent and you have your child in day care, you on average across the country, you
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might pay $9,000 a year. i'm speaking to you from washington, d.c. it's more like $20,000 a year. this makes sure that parents finally have help with child care, that nobody pays more than 7% of their income on child care like all of the other advanced nations. if you have a child in preschool, on average you're paying about $9,000 a year. this will make preschool universal for 3 and 4-year-olds. you want to talk about saving money for the middle class and working class, this is a huge benefit, not to mention the child tax credit that will be continued for another year. so you've got a list there of all of the great things that are a part of this. i want to say in my remit, in my area of responsibility in climate change, i mean, jonathan, it is such a major investment in our nation deciding we are going to build the products and the energy that will lead us to make sure that
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we can address climate change and that we can put people to work. so i am totally excited about this package. both pieces will be almost $3 trillion worth of investment in our nation and our people. and paid for by the very wealthiest and not everyday citizens. >> and to be more specific, $15 billion for electric cars, $555 billion in total for clean energy, but there -- we put up on the screen earlier all of the things that are in the bill, but there are a couple of things, more than a couple of things, but there are a few things that didn't make it into the bill that would also help working families and american families, prescription drugs, paid family leave which started out as 12 weeks dropped down to four weeks and now is at no weeks. why should -- why should people get behind this bill if these
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important priorities aren't in it? >> well, first of all, it is a massive bill with huge benefits for people and we want to make sure we get to those benefits right away, and benefits for the nation. paid family leave, the fight is not over. we're going to continue to fight for that and in fact, there may be one or two republicans who have not lifted a finger for this particular bill who might be interested in a narrower bill, paid family leave. joe manchin and kristen gillibrand, we didn't give up the ghost. this is not the end of the story. we will continue to fight for those priorities including prescription drugs. it is amazing. it is a game changer for the nation and for working families. >> secretary, you mentioned
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senator manchin. just wondering, have you had conversations throughout this entire negotiation period with senators manchin and kyrsten sinema. >> with senator manchin, i have. i have not been speaking with senator sinema. >> the news coming out of the g20 in rome is that the president made comments about the talks with iran being possibly restarted. that the united states and iran could be coming back to the negotiating table on the -- you know, since iran's nuclear deal. do you know anything more about that? is this going to happen? >> well, what's been publicly reported, i can tell you, is that iran's new leadership has said that they want to go back to vienna which is where the negotiations took place by the end of november. now we have -- you know, we have a little bit of sin know civil. we'll see if, in fact, that happens. however, if it does and if we
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are able to make progress on preventing iran from having a nuclear weapon, we certainly want to make sure that that happens. notice though that since the trump administration got out of that deal, since we don't have the nuclear deal it is true that iran has made more progress towards enrichment of uranium and that's really dangerous. we want to prevent that from happening. if iran comes to the table in good faith, the united states will as well. >> last question for you, secretary. we have the nbc news poll out this morning showing the president's job approval rating is down to 42%. 7% -- 7 percentage points lower than it was in august. how damaging will it be to the administration if build back better and the bipartisan infrastructure bill never make a vote? because this is washington so that could possibly impact it. >> i'm not even going to buy the
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hypothetical. we've got unanimous support in the house from progressives and moderates in favor of the framework and that framework was the subject, the precursor, as you know, that progressives wering saying to be able to vote on the infrastructure bill. both pieces, infrastructure and framework, have unanimous support in the house and the president wouldn't have put the framework forward if he didn't think that he had the votes -- 50 votes in the senate. we're going to see this happen, jonathan. it is just shy of this vote but it will happen because we have support and the democrats know how important it is for the people. >> as it says at the bottom of the screen, house dems eye a tuesday vote on both of those bills. jennifer granholm, secretary of energy, thank you very much for coming to "the sunday show." >> you bet, jonathan. thanks for having me on. an all-star panel and i sound off to the other sunday shows. stay tuned.
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thanks of families they will be eligible for hundreds of thousands of dollars of compensation. this sunday morning at least one republican isn't happy. >> when we think it, why would we be doing this? they broke our laws. these individuals broke the laws of the united states of america and then the biden administration wants to write them a check. >> i'm sorry, just -- good lord.
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joining me now is elise jordan, eugene daniels politico white house correspondent and maria hinojosa. thank you for being on "the sunday show." eugene, i'm starting with you. and with this sound from transportation secretary pete buttigieg on paid family leave. >> my biggest fear is fairfax county, which has already reported it would announce late to the single biggest voting county of the state -- >> still the wrong clip playing in my ear. can we have pete buttigieg now or no? okay. you know what we're going to do. no. no. no. no. no. maria -- >> it's a halloween trick, jonathan. >> i know.
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trick or treat. nothing but tricks up here. maria, since we played the sound from senator scott and what he had to say about what the administration might do when this comes to families separated at the border, your reaction? >> oh, my god. you know, there's no way you can really pay for the kind of trauma that this country has inflicted, but this is not the solution in this way. you have to understand that there is historical context. this country has taken children from indigenous people, it has taken children from enslaved black people, it has taken children during the japanese american citizens who were put behind bars during something known as the internment act. so all of this happened in our country. to take a situation that is so fresh and traumatic, it is so -- i'm sorry, kind of capitalistic to be like, here's a lot of
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money, as if that is going to solve it. first of all, reunite all of the families. second of all, tell these people what we're going to do is we're going to make you whole. we're going to give you what your family wanted. you're going to come here and we're going to set up an account, we're going to do financial literacy, college accounts for your kids, et cetera, et cetera, you start a national conversation. not start, you press deeper into reparations. you use these families in conversation with black families to create solidarity about how this country repairs what it has done. but to just -- to just kind of say, here's this money is just not the way to go about it. >> you know, elise, your reaction to what senator scott had to say on this? >> no, i mean, i agree with maria. it does seem like throwing money at a horrific crime against
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humanity that occurred. i almost though like that it's putting money towards the problem because that's something that affects the gop and they understand the value of the dollar. they might not want to atone for what they did for the human tragedy of separating children from their parents as a law of our own nation that that occurred. i like the idea of this hitting the gop in an area that they can understand, but i agree with maria that we need to do more for these families and the children who are at the most vulnerable point in their lives were subject to such horror. >> all right, eugene, i think we've gotten the gremlins out of the system. now without further adieu, transportation secretary pete buttigieg on paid family leave. >> this is not half a loaf. this is a feast of good policies, some of which my party
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has been talking about or even politicians on both sides of the aisle have been talking about for literally as long as i have been alive. the chance to deliver it is now within our grasp. it is an extraordinary package that is going to make concrete improvements in the lives of every american and i can't wait to see it done. obviously when you put together something big and this complex nobody gets everything they want. >> this clip is not about paid family leave. it was about overall he was trying to make the case even though paid family leave is not in the build back better plan, that the plan itself, what's in it, is, a feast of good policies. eugene, is that vote on both the bills, bbb and bif, is it going to happen from your reporting as we speak right now? >> oh, it's going to happen tuesday which is what they're
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saying. we don't know. they are still trying to put paid family leave in there, right? there is still kirsten gillibrand pushing joe manchin. is it next week? both of these things. next week, the week after that? what really matters is that what they're working on right now is there's an issue of trust, right? the problem is, the reason we're not getting the vote on the house on bif, they don't trust kyrsten sinema, joe manchin that the white house has concepted to what's in the reconciliation bill. they want to see more assurances than they have right now. i don't think you'll see a vote until they get those votes. sinema and manchin have not been clear and said we support this. we're ready to vote on the $1.75
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trillion. they said we know we're not going to get everything we want. this is it. that is what we're watching this week is whether or not house progressives get any assurances. >> eugene, i talked to congressman madeleine dean about this report about the fact that the chair of the congressional progressive caucus, congressman pramila jayapal placed a call to the white house chief of staff saying let's not have a vote on bipartisan infrastructure alone. let's keep them twin. the president goes up the hill and doesn't ask for bif to be voted on alone. then in a phone call to congresswoman dean from 40,000 feet in the air on the way to rome, you were great on tv but then doesn't say to her, hey,
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you should probably have this vote on bif by itself. i've gotten confirmation that this whole thing did happen from a senior democratic aide on the hill. what was up with what congresswoman jayapal was doing if you have any insight into that? >> yeah. i mean, colleagues broke this conversation, this story. it seems like, you know, she was being clear about where her caucus stands, right? in trying to get the president to say -- to agree with them. and at this point we've seen mostly that this white house has kind of been on the side of progressives when it comes to the process aspect of things, right? a lot of things got pulled out of that bill that progressives really wanted. obviously a lot of health care issues got pulled out, paid family leave pulled out and so what jayapal is trying to do is continuing to use the power that she has, use her caucus and say, no, this is what we want, because there's been a question
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of too much power on the moderate side of things and not enough power and not enough attention paid to progressives here about it from the white house. >> real quickly maria and elise, how damaging will it be to the president, his administration and the democrats if bbb and bif are not voted on on tuesday? >> it's going to be -- look, people right now -- i'm in texas in a hotel room, and the feeling is there's not a lot of attention being put on what's happening in washington, but there will be a massive story if this does not move ahead because as you said, jonathan, the question was is it even going to get voted on. that's why people are kind of confused where it stands. if it doesn't move forward, it's damaging and this party needs to get it together. >> elise, from the other side of the aisle. >> it's bad. big picture, you look at the new nbc poll out this morning, biden is down 7% since august. it's a low that's only matched
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by donald trump in the first year of his presidency. voters wanted to see competency, they wanted to see control, they wanted to see less chaos. the longer it gets held, the worse it is. >> also in that poll the one silver lining when they were asked who should be in control of congress in 2022, democrats versus republicans, democrats edge out republicans by a few points. >> thank you all very much for coming to "the sunday show." up next, the voters who hold the key to what happens in virginia this tuesday and for the future of the republic, talk about it in my bye line next.
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for a few weeks now, there's been a factoid about the forthcoming vote in the virginia governor's race between democrat terry mcauliffe and republican glenn youngkin that's become
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gospel in spelling doom for mcauliffe. in ten, out of the last 11 gubernatorial elections in virginia wrote, the post, the party that won the presidency lost virginia's governorship a year later, and who was that one exception? mcauliffe who won election in 2013, but what's left out of the analysis is who drove mcauliffe to victory, black voters, black women in particular. npr wrote last week, black voters have put democrats over the top in virginia elections before, considered that in 2013, mcauliffe lost the white vote by 20 points according to exit polling, but he won more than 90% of black voters. they made up 20% of the electorate, and it was enough to help mcauliffe to a three-point victory. using his analysis of the gender gap in the exit polls, i went the extra step of declaing in a
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2014 column that black women put mcauliffe in the governor's mansion then. not only did african-american virginians vote at the level they did in obama's 2012 re-election, but black women gave mcauliffe 91% of their votes. he lost white women by 16 percentage points. you know who else agreed with my assessment? terry mcauliffe. i ran into then-governor mcauliffe not long after writing my column to mention my assessment to him, and guess who put you in the governor's mansion, i asked? not expecting mcauliffe to answer, black women, mcauliffe thundered before i could even say it. black women have been saving this republic since its founding. that's especially since the trump era when they helped elect democrats in unlikely places like in alabama and georgia. their votes put president joe biden in the white house, and black turnout will be key if
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mcauliffe is to win in virginia. they just have to show up. there's a lot of worry about that among democrats because of polls showing a race that is too close for comfort in a state president biden won by 10 percentage points. in the last week, youngkin was able to close the gap by tossing copies of tony morrison's pulitzer prize-winning book "beloved," on the embers of grievance because of his conservative base to vote. a tax on education, reproductive health, and voting rights were just three of the worries taken by republican-led states, and texas in the last year. virginia must not become part of the regressive mix. you may remember earlier this month i asked texas state representative -- or representative jasmine crockett why so many horrible policies were coming out of her state. before she answered, crockett had this message for virginia voters. >> virginia, y'all need to go
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vote for terry. if y'all don't want to turn into texas, that is what y'all absolutely need to do. we absolutely do not need another greg abbott wannabe in these united states of america. >> word. so black people, black women especially, do what you have always done. save the republic by saving virginia, again. i'm jonathan capehart. this has been "the sunday show." ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪
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hey there, everyone. good day from msnbc headquarters here in new york. we're approaching high noon here. welcome to "alex witt reports." we begin in rome where in just a couple of minutes, president biden will be leading an event focused on the supply chain crisis in just one of the several critical meetings the president is holding with world leaders today. this morning, secretary of state antony blinken touting the administration's progress. >> what i'm seeing here in rome is a deep appreciation for american reengagement, american leadership, and it's making a huge difference on issues that are actually going to have an impact on the lives of americans. we're on the same page with our closest allies and partners. >> meantime, back in washington, a vote on both the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and the


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