tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 29, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
aecoming after you. >> my god a parent did a in additionsy nazi salute because they thought it was oppressive. is that protected by the first amendment? >> yes, it is. >> happy spooky halloween. that's tonight's "reidout." all in with kras hayes starts now. tonight on "all in" -- >> it's not gonna happen like you think it's gonna happen, okay? it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. >> new clues in the coup plot investigation as the murdoch empire invents its own fictional reality. >> the helicopters have left afghanistan. now they have landed here at home. >> tonight congressman ruben gallego how close we came to a trump coup. >> when you leave the capitol, you've lost. and so i started texting every member i could in all of our text chains. >> then the ominous purge of
republicans who stand up to trump in congress continues. plus, the awful facts ron desantis ignores on another covid victory lap. >> there are a heck of a lot of students and families throughout the state of florida that are better off today. >> and can mark zuckerberg escape whistleblowers regulators and accountability inside the metaverse? >> yeah, just got to find something to wear. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the most powerful person in conservative america is 90-year-old murdoch himself. he is a founder and executive chairman of news corporation, controls fox news, the almost monopolistically powerful right wing cable channel where the vast majority of conservatives get their news. he has done incalculable damage
to this country and world and he is responsible for what fox news says and does. rupert murdoch is the person responsible for the anti-vaccine nonsense coming out of fox that has led to unthousands of unnecessary deaths. he is responsible for the increasingly dangerous rhetoric around january 6th that fox news is spewing essentially seeking to either excuse the insurrection or to dismiss it as some kind of false flag conspiracy perpetrate bid the federal government itself. that is the topic of a special documentary series from host tucker carlson debuting on fox's streaming service next week. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> the domestic war on terror is
here, is coming after. >> half of the country. >> the helicopters have left afghanistan and now they have landed here at home. they begun to fight a new enemy in a new war on terror. >> not al qaeda. white supremacist. >> false flags have happened in this country. ♪ glory glory hallelujah ♪ >> one of which may have been january 6th. >> provoking outrage. geraldo rivera tweeted false flags, b.s. he was replying to a tweet from republican congressman adam kinzinger of illinois who wrote anyone working for fox news must speak out. it appears fox news isn't even pretending anymore, as has liz cheney of wyoming who called fox ought for, quote, giving tucker carlson a platform to spread the same lies that provoked violence on january 6th. as fox knows the election wasn't
stolen and january 6th was not a false flag operation. the anti-defamation league is urging fox not to air the series saying in a letter to the company we remain deeply concerned of false narrative and wild conspiracy theories presented by carlson will sew further division and has the potential to animate violence. there is no indication rupert murdoch plans on pulling it, even though it's wildly inflammatory. why would he? he watched hundreds of thousands of people die and hasn't done anything. one of the driving forces behind this series is the false flag conspiracy theory about january 6th and that comes from a man named darren beatty. now, that name may ring a bell obscurely, faintly. he worked in the trump white house as a speech writer and was fired in 2018 from the trump white house for having ties to white nationalists. he then went on to work as a speech writer for matt gaetz of florida. if you saw a matt gaetz and thought, well, that's well done, that was that guy.
and donald trump welcomed him back into thefold of course because, well, why not, nominating him to the board of the commission for the preservation of americans heritage abroad. that's the group that oversees u.s. holocaust memorials outside the country. he is spreading lies about the feds being involved on january 6th on his news site recover. any podcast or tv show that will vp s have him including, of course, tucker carlson's show. to what extent were the main militia groups impute today the capital siege, to what extent was there infiltration by undercover agents or informants and what extent when we see the unindicted co-conspirators who occupy senior positions in those groups, to what extent are those people being spared prosecution on account of a prior relationship with the federal government? those two questions create a thread. when we pull that thread, the ugly truth of that event and
perhaps even the country we live in, will be exposed. >> now, you see the technique there. very familiar if you spend time in conspiracy theory circles. he is just asking questions. what extent is it possible this was a false flag in let's pull the thread. false flags are the most tried and true and laziest and dumbest form of conspiracy theories. there are millions of examples from the 9/11 truther movement which i saw up close and live. the attack was staged by the bush administration to right wing radio host alex jones claiming the sandy hook shooting was a hoax. it's nothing new or interesting here. it's just the way conspiracy theories work. it's always been crazy. they call the insurrectionists patriots who were in the words of marjorie taylor greene standing up to tyrants and there was a false flag. none of it has made sense together, particularly when you listen to what steve bannon, one of donald trump's closest
advisors, was sig saying just days before. >> it's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen. it's going to be extraordinarily different. all i can say is strap in. the war room a posse, you have made this happen and tomorrow it's game day. president trump's, his first term is ending with action and the second term will start with a bang, okay? that we can guarantee you. so the fight's in. people are getting revved up, fired up, getting madder as they should. all going to converge on that point on the 6th. we are going to converge there. we just got to impose our will. >> now, we've learned a lot about january 6th. we have studied it and reported on it here on the show and all of the information that we have seen day by day, new information being revealed, it is exactly what it looked like. an organized attempt to overturn a democratic election through the force of the mob. people inside the capital that day and saw what happened are very clear about that.
listen to how ruben gallego described what he experience thad day in the new hbo doumtry four hours at the capitol. >> i was an infantry in the united states marine corps. i had to deal with aggressive crowds in iraq. individuals themselves aren't usually a problem. but when they get collectively together and create a mob, that's the weapon. i was ready to fight. i saw a lot of stuff in my day, but i was going to die. i was not going to get taking out by some insurrectionist bastard. my plan was to stab somebody in the eye and in the throat and take away their weapon and fight to survive. i saw a bunch of buses pull up and there were buses to evacuate us. let me tell you, in coups, when you leave the capitol, you've lost. and so you started texting every
member i could in all of our text chains. if they tell you to leave, don't leave. we get on those buses, there is no guarantee we are ever coming badge. >> this was the most serious attempt on american democracy since the civil war. watch the footage or listen to the firsthand accounts of what happened that day. it's chilling. but donald trump and rupert murdoch together as a pair, partners in a way, have created a world in which defending excusing or lying about january 6th is the litmus test for being a conservative. today we learned one of the few republicans who refused to go along with that, congressman adam kinzinger, is not running for re-election. to be clear, adam kinzinger is a real republican like has very right-wing conservative views. i don't like his politics at all. i'll just tell you. he voted with donald trump's position 90% of the time. i think there is nothing redeeming about the substantive commitments he has for how the country. be governed, except for the
fact he is anti-coup. he is pro-democracy. but that is the defining issue for the conservative coalition. congress ruben gallego, you heard him speak about his experience on january 6th in that clip from the new hbo documentary "four hours at the capitol" and joins me now. what does it mean, congressman, to have lies about that event following the big lie about the election be used as the dividing line, the litmus test for what essentially participation and entrance into the modern-day republican party is? >> it means that the coup is ongoing. it means that the coup has moved from, you know, the rabl rousers, those losers, those terrorists that showed up on january 6th into the political realm which actually happens a lot if you follow terrorism. they sometimes find themselves in politics and there will be another attempt at some point. and it will be in the
courtrooms, it will be in the board rooms as what you are seeing with fox news, or it will be in the voting boots where they are making it more difficult for people to vote. so it's a scary situation for this country. the insurgency has moved on from a bunch of people wearing camo pants to a bunch of men and women wearing brooks brothers and it is probably more dangerous than what i saw january 6th. >> in terms of what you did see, i was so struck by what you said in that documentary. i wanted to sort of ask a follow-up. i mean, this idea that the buses coming to evacuate you, that there was something in the moment, a sense that you had deeply. and i think there is some reporting that indicated mike pence had the sense, too, in a slightly different way, that the stakes of staying or going were higher than just the personal safety or the optics, that staying in the capitol or
leaving the capitol meant something about the actual transition of power in the u.s. as a properly constituted democracy. >> it wasn't symbolic for me. what happened is the reason i had a view of the buses because i left the secure room to shelter some press that weren't allowed in the secure room. as i was staring out the window, i saw about -- the thing was like 68 buses and i realized what was about to happen. everything i have seen in the past, studied in the past, wherever the duly elected representatives leave the capitol, they lose. if you look down to pinochet in chile, you see other attempts across the country. it also added up to other things. the rhetoric that i was seeing reminded me of the lead up to rwanda genocide. that was exactly the kind of messaging you are hearing now, by the way.
there is just a lot of things adding up to me where i knew this was more serious than a bunch of drunk wanna be militia members storming the capitol. >> those comparisons are intense and heady. what i'm hearing is you feel quite clear there is essentially a fundamentally illiberal authoritarian faction that's formed that has gained control of the republican party, that is not commenceable with liberal democracy in the way we understand it, that its aims, whatever methods it seeks to achieve them, are fundamentally in tension with self-governments and democratic control. >> correct. but this has been going on for a while, chris. now a lot of people are seeing it. let's begin. you know, this goes back prior to this election. when you saw the tea party movement and you were at the protests of the tea party, and i
was at the first one observing them, you saw people trying to overthrow, start overthrowing the government because they didn't like the fact that there was a black president. we saw legislation. for example in the statehouse they were putting in legislation to overturn the right of citizens to vote for the u.s. senate. they wanted to have the state legislators do that from now on. this has been an existing part of the republican party. the problem is the republican party and the corporate overlords contained it. now it's taken over. trumpism is in charge of that. they don't care if they get their tax cuts, their regulation. they will destroy democracy in the process as long as they keep on keeping -- they are able to keep that in their profit margins. the only real way to defend ourselves right now is for us to have a very vigorous democracy where we get out the vote and stop all attempts for them to
actually disenfranchise us because the coup is ongoing. it's not armed but now it's armed with legal briefs, armed with different initiatives to diminish votes, other legal means that, unfortunately, could have bad results, more so than what we saw on january 6th. >> you have a high-stakes election in your state for secretary of state where there has a candidate endorsed by trump and the understanding whether implicit or explicit, depend on the day, a trump backed candidate, i am backing them because i have full faith that they will do what brad raffensperger would not in georgia, which is i'm backing -- when the time comes, they will do what i want them to do. >> right. they will. and i have no doubt that mash, who is a recent transplant from michigan, we call him a fake cowboy, he walks around in a cowboy -- like all arizonans do that, we don't, fyi.
if elected he will corrupt our process, close down polls, do everything illegal he can to make sure donald trump wins. there are many people like that all over the world. the insurgency, the coup has moved beyond the streets. now it's moving into trying to get some of these men and women elected into secretary of state's offices, because they can't win on merits or their ideas, they have none. all they have is a real hate and angst and even then they can't win. all they can do is corrupt the ballot and try to impose their idea of who should win against us, against us as in those people that believe in democracy. this should cut across all politics at this point. >> congressman ruben gallego, thank you so much for taking time with us tonight. >> thank you. like i mentioned, republican congressman adam kinzinger january 6th select committee member and vocal critic of donald trump won't seek re-election next year.
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every day in business is a big day. we'll keep you ready for what's next. comcast business powering possibilities. congressman adam kinzinger congressman adam kinzinger the republican congressional caucus is shedding yet another member. illinois congressman adam kinzinger, long-time trump critic, one of two republicans on the january 6th committee, he announced he will not seek another term and will retire from congress.
that makes kinzinger the ninth congressional republican to choose to pack up and leave washington this cycle. he joins three other house members and five senators, all members that are by and large more standard pre-trump republicans, i think you call them. now, for some context, ten house republicans vote today impeach trump the second time around. kinzinger is the second member in that group to retire and seven republican senators vote today convict, two of them have decided to retire. according to 538, as of april, get this, out of the 293 republicans in congress when trump was sworn in, 132 of them, about 45% are no longer in congress or have announced their intention to leave. shell goldberg is an op-ed columnist for "the new york times." tim million ser writer at large for the bulwark who called one republican congressman's decision to retire a slap in the face for delusional republicans who want to presend that the gop
is anything but a pro-trump insurrection cult. the kinzinger news is not surprising, but it is clarifying because he has really tried to carve out an identity as a conservative republican. i said this in the last block. i do not like adam kinzinger's politics, i don't really agree with him on anything. i think they're bad. i would vote the opposite way. if i was in his district, i would be happy to have a democrat run against him. but he is on the side of democracy and he tried to carve out this narrow space and it's like the space just doesn't exist. >> i do like adam kinzinger's politics, not all, but a lot of it. i agree but. i have a slight disappointment with the democrats. he got carved out. this is a little bit different than the gonzalez situation. gonzalez retires basically for fear of the trump mob. he says that he was tired of having to have security walking his kids to the airport because he voted on impeachment. kinzinger's situation is a little bit different.
but here's the thing. kinzinger has been at the tip of the spear on this, on the anti-trump stuff. he is with cheney on the january 6th commission. and there would have been no room for him. perhaps the democrats ran a deal where he runs as a liberal or something. there is no room for someone reich this in the party anymore. the more -- the additionally relevant part is it's not just the courageous people like kinzinger. it's the uncourageous republicans who went along with trump on basically everything except for overturning the election, those guys are retiring. you know, your port mans and roy blounts and replaced by josh mandell, your pro-insurrection maga republicans. so when you have the kinzingers gone and you are not courageous normal republicans and they are all being replaced by maga republicans, that's a very different caucus. >> it's a great point and also, like, there is a bunch of different things at play here,
michelle. that 45%, i mean i have been thinking about it all day. that's a big amount of turnover. if you are in the kinzinger or cheney or not gonzalez who is the guy that tim just mentioned who is retiring because he doesn't want to face basically the trump mob, even if you go along with it all, a lot of them hate the guy, clearly, and i think they kind of hate their own base to be totally honest. i think they have people for the contempt. they are living this double life they find themselves un, like, unenjoyable. it's not sustainable. the only thing sustainable is true believers. you will get more marjory stoneman douglass marjorie taylor greens who are playing the game. >> it's never clear to me why being in congress is a good job. it's never clear why some people see it as such a good job that
you would sell your soul and your country to stay there. look, i think that people like adam kinzinger got elected at a time when they had a very different idea of what the republican base was. you're right that he is very conservative, but, you know, he is conservative in the way we used to think about republicans being conservative, right? he is very hawkish, kind of has, you know, concerned about fiscal policy. he is not a sort of populist culture warrior, and what the republicans have learned over the last, you know, five years now is that that's what the party cares about. all of that, you know, kind of captain america foreign policy stuff, all of that low taxes and, you know, kind of worrying about deficits. it's never been about that. it's always been about, you know, kind of culture war, grievances, and so once trump was able to articulate that, it's not that he kind of changed
the nature of the republican party's base as much as he revealed the preferences that have been there for quite a long time. >> yeah. and, tim, you mentioned ohio senate primary is a great example. it is such an embarrassing spectacle. it's like -- it's like -- i mean, really truly, like, cringe-inducing to watch these folks. this has now become a thing. like, you've got this thing the way to sort of get ahead is to be an elite product of, like, the pinnacle top of the meritocracy or cotton, ted cruzs, j.d. vances who dress up in the most preposterous aping of what they think is the populous costuming and then it works. that is the future. like, that's what -- that is what will ultimately be the entire caucus. >> yeah, look, i don't think
that on january 7th we would have sat around here and thought, boy, by 2023 the republican caucus is going to be way more trumpy than it was january 5th. because that's exactly what's happening. when jamie vance and monday dell are doing is ridiculous. who knows what herschel walker is doing in georgia. sean parnell in pennsylvania also has committed sexual assaults and eric greitens to go along with this conspiracy mongering. take it down to the whole party. in you are in the city council on the school board and you are a normal republican who cares about tax cuts or whatever, are you going to stick around when you have a crazy mob yelling at you about the mask rules you have? from the senate to the city council this turnover is happening and you are getting the performative -- or the marjorie taylor greene types and that's a distinct without a difference. >> yeah, by the way, i don't know about parnell and the
accusations there. i just want to put myself on the record as not knowing what the accusations are. i know there are accusations against eric greitens. let me just ask you this, michelle. to tim's point, what you are seeing when you take a step back aside from the individual moments, two down, eight to go trump sell bra tore statement, a very efficient machine with things operating in parallel, trump, the fox, the base, to grind everyone out who isn't that kind of way to produce a 200 proof pure complete maga faction as one of the two major parties in america over the coming next two to three years. >> yeah, going back to what tim said, i think a lot of people thought the day after january 6th there was such a reaction against, you know, people kind of looking at the maga movement straight in the face and
reacting in horror and there was a sense, a very brief sense, that maybe the bubble had burst and you had people resigning and people denouncing. you have had these moments sort of throughout trumpism. but the fact -- the thing that they can't change is the base, and the base's desires, right? and so, you know, this is the party of tucker carlson who is about to come out with this documentary, you know, sort of suggesting that this attack was a false flag. there is not room for even -- there is no anti-insurrectionist caucus in the modern republican party. >> right. that's exactly right. and also you realize the big lie serves its purpose because usually what happens to one-term presidents they are branded as losers and they become radioactive. that's the normal course of things. like, well, i want to take gerald ford or jimmy carter or george h.w. bush's advice on anything. that's the purpose the big lie serves here.
michelle and tim, thank you very much. coming up, what's in the blueprint of a new college dorm tell us about the bleak vision of our billionaire-led future? it is a wild one. i'll explain right after this. we'll be right back. k. living w, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b,
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>> yeah. >> 62 years, and it's not that we agree on everything. but we literally in 62 years, we have never got mad at each other. >> that is warren buffett, one of the richest men on earth, the billionaire talking about his right-hand man charles munger. a 97-year-old billionaire vice chairman of birk share hathaway. he likes to design buildings in his spare time.
he donated $200 billion to university of. instead of naming the building after himself, munger had another stip lalgs. he had to be allowed to design it completely. he is the guy who wanted to design the dorm. he made some pretty interesting decisions. the building is meant to house 4,500 students. that's a pretty large building. and take a look at the layout on the inside. crammed full of these little suites, as they are called. now, let's be clear. dorms can often be almost prison-like in design. they are packing a lot of people in a small area. you know, that's kinda what they are. this is a real dystopian science fiction novel feel. tiny pod bedrooms with a bed, a little desk and a fake window. that's not a real window. there is light beamed through there. in fact, 94% of the rooms will not have functioning windows and the unpleasant accommodations
seem to be part design. this is his idea. munger maintains the small living quarters would coax residents out of their rooms and into larger common areas where they would interact and collaborate. it was enough to make one of the you will consulting architects resign in disgust, calling it unsupportable from my perspective as an architect, a parent and a human being. the build something a social and psychological experiment with an unknown impact on the lives and personal development of the undergraduate wits at the university. we reached out to munger for comment on that statement. he said it is natural for architects to disagree. he told bloomberg that prioritizing windows would have meant lowering the building's capacity. again, i don't know a lot about architecture. i don't really even know whether this would be a good or bad design. seems bad to me. but this is kind of a glimpse of it means to have a society and
world run by billionaires, our dystopian present, if you will. not just dorms that look like holding cells on a moon colony, but our ultra wealthy overlords run out of things to spend their money on. you know, there is only so much you can do after you buy mansions and yachts and helicopters. what do they do? drop $200 million to cos play as an architect and design a horrifying nightmare building. couldn't munger have gone to space instead? facebook's ceo mark zuckerberg introduces the world to the mers. is it the future of technological innovation or a sad meta father? the truth next. d meta father? the truth next ice. it's how i make my living. and you and i make a country with our voices. your vote is your voice. but more than ever, our freedom to vote is under attack.
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for our booklet about thinning hair. call the number new and i'll send you the booklet. remember, i'm not only the hair club president, but i'm also a client. >> that was a kind of ad i saw growing up. maybe a lot of people did. everyone had versions of it. the guy who runs the business and wants to be in the commercial, the guy who has a furniture store, used car business, because he is the boss he gets to be in the commercial maybe though he is not the guy you would choose to be in the commercial. i thought of that when i saw this yesterday, facebook's rebrand as meta as some of the worst press that company had, it stars a guy who whatever his other talents is one of the least charismatic pitch men i have ever seen. >> today we are going to do something a little bit different. rather than focusing on this year's products, we are going to talk about the future. so let's start by exploring what different kinds of metaverse experiences could feel like. starting with the most important experience of all. connecting with people.
>> hey, are you coming? >> yeah, just got to find something to wear. all right. perfect. >> there has been a ton of reaction since the facebook rebrand news brook. moving zuckerberg out of harm's way into the top of a holding company is perhaps the smartest strategy since he has, like most founders, become the personification of the problem. and if the rebrand works, the metaverse would usher in a new era of dominance, extending facebook deeper in our lives. if it doesn't, it will be remembered as a desperate costly attempt to give a social note work a facelift.
we have kevin and cara, incredible dynamic duo joining us tonight. your point about the sort of founder syndrome here i thought was really interesting. to me the reason that we stuck with the perlg thing is he is just so identified with the brand and it does feel to me there is a sense in which no one can tell mark no and that is shown by the fact that he keeps showing up in these things, which i don't find particularly compelling, and i wonder what this means that he remains so utterly central to this company. >> that's it. he is utterly central to the company. he is the controlling share hold early. he can't be fired. he makes all the calls. and therefore he puts himself in the commercials. i suppose sort of styling himself after steve jobs except not, obviously. steve jobs was a compelling and interesting and compassionate speaker. in this case, he is not good at it. that's one of the problems he
has throughout the rest of the company in that he is making a lot of decisions that are rather serious for the company and some of them aren't the best decisions over the many years he has been running facebook. now he is talking about the future like kevin wrote. you know, it's got a lot of -- i thought it had a lot of aol vibes back in the day when they were trying to seem relevant. microsoft has done this before when they were in trouble and here we are again with facebook. >> yeah, that point about the future. kevin, you wrote -- you have been writing -- obviously, we had the facebook papers and there is all this reporting about it. you know, this is an amazingly powerful company. mark zuckerburg is an astoundedly powerful person. he makes calls about election disinformation in spanish and where are we on the ethnic cleansing that's happening in burma? it's astounding to imagine it. your counterintuitive take was the paper showed weakness, showed desperation on the part. company, and i could smell that coming off this video a little
bit. explain why you wrote that. >> the whole video sort of seemed like facebook's like mid-life crisis, like it's trying to say we are not the same old facebook you have known. we are cool now. we dyed our hair, got a new wardrobe, bought a convertible, this is the new meta. and it wreaks a little bit of desperation. in the facebook papers what we saw was hard evidence, statistics and data showing that young users, especially, are fleeing facebook and to a lesser extent instagram. that has been happening for several years, but it's sped up, at least in the u.s. so what is worrying them internally is they can't seem to get young people interested in their products. they are losing to tiktok, losing to snapchat when it comes to young people and that's a really valuable market for them. that's what advertisers, these are who advertisers want to reach. this metaverse is in some ways a play to say, hey, we've got this new area we think might appeal
to young people. we will put a lot of money and investment and resources into trying to make it work. >> that to me is what is dangerous. the combination of power and desperation is always very dangerous, right? >> yeah. >> when you have got a lot of power, which facebook has, but you also feel like you are being stalk and you feel like -- that's when you start to do everything in your power to juice the numbers. and we have seen some of that in the facebook papers that when you are thinking about, you know, we need to boost engagement, it's a kind of whatever it takes by any means necessarily mindset and that could lead to dark places. >> that's always been their mindset. it's not a new pressure idea. they have been a high growth throughout their history and had these small traffic accidents along the way, usually they are fine. everybody else is injured. i think one of the things that's interesting here is the idea of a metaverse is a huge idea and a lot of creative people are going
to contribute. it should be a bigger thing than one company. someone pointed out this is a land grab on their behalf. that said, i showed this to two of my kids, are 19 and 16. they laughed. they are not going to mark zuckerburg's metaverse. but they are going -- you know, people are interested in this idea because it's a big idea to combine physical and analogue. apple is working on stuff. amazon's working on stuff. they are all working on this idea. but it will come from someone not facebook. somewhere else. the concept of it, which has been around, by the way. >> this is not a new concept. >> yeah, i read an interesting piece in "the atlantic" about people working on something along these lines back in 1997. kevin, maybe you could give a little bit of what it actually means. i think it is a little hard to get your head around. my understanding is immersive virtual worlds in which you interact with other people and maybe there is a sort of, like, way that you sort of physically
interact as well as virtually. >> yeah, it's a little confusing, the meaning has shifted over time. the original concept as coined in a novel called "snow crash" decades ago. it was this immersive virtual world where you bought virtual goods and had virtual avatars and gent to virtual parties and it was an immersive vr word. it sort of means vr and glasses that you would wear that would protect things on to the environment in front of you, the ability to seamlessly, you know, flow between, you know, talking with your friends and, you know, going to a concert in vr and talking to dinosaurs and whatever else you'd be encountering there. but this is basically their sort of catch-all term for things that are new to them, that they are working on, emerging technologies. and i agree with cara. i don't think this is actually going to appeal to young people. but i do think that ideas like this will happen and will come
out in the next few years and it will be really interesting to see how facebook reacts to that. >> all right. kevin ruse and kara swisher, thank you both fov your time. >> thanks a lot. coming up, florida governor ron desantis actively desantis d measures that would protect constituents for coronavirus. thousands paid the price with their lives, so why are conservatives trying to make him into a pandemic hero? that's next. mic hero that's next. ♪ i like it, i love it, i want some more of it♪ ♪i try so hard, i can't rise above it♪
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just a little follow-up on something earlier in the show. you may have heard one of my guests, kim miller, mention something about shawn parnell in relation to sexual assault charges. we cannot confirm those charges. i just wanted to know very clear about that. but there is no public record we were able to find on that. yesterday "the washington post" reported that he is in the process of a divorce and that a domestic dispute with his wife involving two protection from abuse orders were later lifted.
he later tried to seal his divorce records but a judge ruled that much of his records can become public. florida's republican governor ron desantis has been congratulated for the way he is handling covid in his state. he rails against mask and vaccine mandates, and he pushes antibody treatments which again are effective as far as we know for the sick, but instead of pushing vaccines to prevent illness in the first place. so here's a quick reminder of where desantis got the sunshine state. florida is ranked seventh overall out of the 50 states for covid deaths in this country. nearly 60,000 floridians have died from the virus under governor desantis' watch, and many of them during a massive delta spike that came after vaccines became widely available. thankfully after that big deadly wave, cases have significantly declined, and so naturally desantis is taking a victory lap. as the orlando sentinel editorial board puts it in an op-ed, it's like a firefighter
tossing a bucket of water on a house that's already been burned to the ground and declaring victory. what a fraud. what a phony. the editor of "the miami herald" also decried governor desantis' descent into crazyville and she joins me now. nancy, there's always been a lot of attention on desantis and his covid response. earlier there was a little bit of a case that he had opened the state more than others had earlier and the state was middling. it hadn't had the level of outbreak and death that you might anticipate given how forward he was in opening things up. but it's very hard it seems to me to defend the record now after what your state has just been through. >> oh, absolutely. we have been through this for now the past 18 months. one of our first editorials in march 2020 was headlined, you know, people are dying from covid in your state, governor.
act like you give a damn. and it has been just one abomination after another in terms of hiding data, manipulating data, protecting some businesses while throwing others under the bus. not talking up vaccines while making sure that people who do support him and support him with their dollars got vaccines first. and now we have someone who has actively tied the hands of local municipalities and their leaders from enforcing -- from imposing any kind of mandate on masks, on vaccines, and now he is looking to call a special session to make sure that businesses that do want to impose any kind of mandate can be held medically
liable if someone gets sick from a vaccine. so yes, crazyville. >> i want to read from that op-ed. he has every motivation to ignore the fact and continue to stoke covid anti-vax fervor. it is usually followed by a fund-raising pitch. he has outraised his democratic opponents in next year's elections. one of the things i found really sick, frankly, is it's very hard to flirt with anti-vaccine mandate without being also anti-vaccine but he's had two events where he is up next to a person, in one case a random individual and another his own surgeon general basically making an explicitly anti-vax case. saying we don't know what's in it and things like that. that is the messaging coming from the governor of your state as far as i can tell unless i'm getting it wrong and he's doing lots of pro vaccine events that we're not covering. >> none that we have seen.
yes, he has aligned himself and surrounded himself with anti-mask, anti-vax leaders, including our surgeon general. harvard educated, a doctor, but not educated, no experience in public health. he too has gone down the path to crazyville, refusing to wear a mask. i think earlier this week, maybe last week when he was meeting with a democratic state senator who is about to undergo treatment for breast cancer. so she is very vulnerable, very immunocompromised. and he has pushed alternative treatments. he is just, as we said, he is the perfect pandemic-era surgeon general for the governor. but for the rest of us, not so much. >> nancy, thank you so much for
your time tonight. >> thank you very much, chris. that is "all in" for this week. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks for joining us on this friday evening. we're going to be talking about president biden and his remarkable meeting with pope francis today at the vatican. we'll talk about the pressure that is coming now from all sides, including some very unexpected places in terms of getting something done on climate. it's a sort of tailwind for the president as he heads from the g-20 toward the big climate summit. it's actually i think a good news story in terms of what's looking like it's going to happen in washington. we'll talk about that. we'll talk about the huge, huge supreme court case that's going to be argued on monday. we should be able to get oral arguments of that court case, we should be able to hear the o