Skip to main content

tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  October 29, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT

3:00 am
around. francis hougan, a hero. >>mika, thank you so much not just for being here today but all your support about the show. thank you to all of you waking up "way too early" with us on this day. "morning joe" starts right now ahead of halloween. back to you, mika. halloween is almost here. and it's time to choose your costume, i have chosen mine, this is my captain curt. >> the only problem is he's dressed as mr. spock. romney went to work dressed as ted lasso or super mario or he stopped by sinema's office and he went dressed as -- they're having so much fun while the country dies, are they?
3:01 am
that's hilarious. >> good morning, welcome to "morning joe," i can't tell if it's funny or not. >> i am snack sure. willie, was it funny? >> was it a funny? >> it was supposed to be a ted lasso's quote which is why he's coming under mockery this morning. it's halloween. >> we love it. >> willie, i am wondering what do you think of facebook changing their name? if moussilini thought about this in 1994, hey, wait, my name is mourny. >> i thought it was the onion.
3:02 am
>> they had a horrible let's call it a month since these documents leaked since francis hougan testified before congress. we learned so much and had many suspicions confirmed based on their internal documents and the answer from facebook is hey, we are called meta instead of facebook, is that better? the question is what will cheryl sandberg do if she was still working with the a company? >> she would change the name to meta, she just did. >> she disappeared. it's a disappearing act for good reason. i am just curious, we have john meacham here. >> you have to go back a long way, before we do that let's talk about joe biden arriing at the vatican right now.
3:03 am
some great moment, john. my favorite when l.b.j. handed the pope a bust himself provering that donald trump was not the only president who had a high opinion of himself. there had been other meetings that gone a bit better. let's hope today as well. >> nothing says hey, i am a humble guy just to serve the lord and the people than giving someone your bust. it was one of those moments. >> awkward. >> you know there was president reagan and john paul ii, something that comes to mind. also, the presidents -- three presidents, george w. bush and george w. bush and bill clinton who went to the funeral of john
3:04 am
paul ii which was a remarkable moment of the american nation founded on religious liberty which includes liberty of not believing anything at all and paying tribute to the roman catholic faith. i think this is personal for president biden, only our second roman-catholic president. and since april 17th, '89, i am a big believer in let's not be judged and i don't want to be judged. it's safe to say joe biden is a far more devour catholic than president kennedy was. i remember michael beschloss
3:05 am
told us a story, i am going to write a book about the late president and his faith and she says, that'll be a short book. a book about joe biden and his faith would be a long book. i also think it's poignant in a way that this is unfolding at a moment when joe biden's whole 78 years leading to this particular moment and the things that he values most in the secular world compromised the american constitution, trying to create opportunity for folks in an imperfect world. that's unfolding in washington at a moment where he is now literally at a place in the embodiment of another huge part of his life which is
3:06 am
catholicism. if you are a sacramento believer and you are in a sacramento place, you are an ultra boy again. you are a little kid again, you are getting married again and you are at your kids' baptism again and at joe biden's case, you are at your kids' funerals, plural. it does not take you out and up. it takes you out and back and so i suspect there is an unfolding story, a change of images of the president's mind that are quite profound. >> yeah, you by the way talked about the kennedys, two things
3:07 am
come into mind. jackie kennedy after the assassination of her husband and bobby. you talked about the catholic church and said it actually as an institution of faith was remarkably well-suited to help human beings grief through their most difficult times. jackie also said along john kennedy's faith when he was running for president in 1950s, i had no idea. bobby would be one for them to be fearful of because he's a good catholic but it seems to be inconsistency. one other thing we'll go to keir simmons in rome. sometimes these are grim and grin, sometimes it's just the american president meeting the pope and rome and not much more
3:08 am
comes from it. but there are times when history moves, the foundation of history moves, you talk about the relationship where dr. bryziky was a friend and knew him well and there was among many people, a small group of leaders who worked with john pope ii and had a dream that the soviets collapsed. had a dream of a free poland and john paul ii along with -- well,
3:09 am
dr. bryzinsky and when margaret thatcher and others helped bring that reality to life and pope john paul ii was at the center of that. >> absolutely. one of the greats, it was george wagal that preached before arguably more human beings than any other time in world history and one of those mass meetings was in poland and behind the iron curtain in the late '70s that year of three popes when he's elected and those remarkable figures who came to power at the same time, reagan and thatcher and john paul ii
3:10 am
all about six years before mckale gorbachov, so much of the credit has to go to people that endured who were patient in tribulation and yet endured but it also mattered that the moral case against totalitism. he's in the cathedral in the capital and here is the war plain and he's in power with
3:11 am
ronald reagan leading toward it is moment when the berlin wall comes down. it's one of the signs of how brief western history can be that one person can experience both of those. i think you are right, an interesting 2021 twist on this is francis and joe biden are both less about confronting these kinds of cold war military threats and they are about confronting these human threats, these human rights opportunity, take care of the least of these and it's kind of spiritual under taken. i think that's what we'll be talking about. >> willie, in 1935, 1936, an advisor was talking to joseph
3:12 am
stalling about the vatican, the pope. stalling asked how many divisions does the pope have? it seems when that pope was polish, he had just enough to help bring down the soviet union. >> i was just going to say, if we look at the relationships between presidents and popes and the cold war, that's right at the heart of everything. you can point to pope paul he had much impact at that time. just to put a button on the story of lbj, around christmas time in 1967, the pope presented president johnson of an oil paint scene. president johnson accepted it. he reads here is me in bronze in exchange. >> that's a lot. we have also got the host "way too early," jonathan lemire and
3:13 am
our katty kay and joining us keir simmons, we'll go straight to you. what do you expect to see for the remainder of the day now that the president has stepped inside to speak with pope francis and thinking ahead to the g-20 and the climat >> reporter: as we speak the president is behind me in the vatican there. a very moving moment for the president and the first lady. the president spoken movingly about receiving prayers and healing from the pope after the death of his son bo, we won't see pictures of them together. we'll see those in a few hours' time. it's not a meeting without controversy, the pope and the president had their tensions of conservative catholic in the
3:14 am
u.s. look, let's be honest that the president woken up this morning with having little sleep and with multiple headaches. this summit should be an tupt for him. president xi of china is not going to be here and president putin is not going fob here in person and he arrives with those and what will world leaders really see from their perspectives and broadly speaking is a president struggling with his own party. that's going to set the scene. there is the climb change conference and scotland had the president unable to arrive with a deal he can present to world leaders at that conference. he'll meet with president macron, first face-to-face meeting since the ang bring route with the french over the nuclear submarine deal with
3:15 am
austria. it's a rubic cube. that needs support from allies and so he needs to be able to fix the issues with the french and he needs to not have any other diplomatic stumbles through the coming week. >> president macron demanded concrete results. let's see if he'll get it today. >> keir, thank you so much. katty kay, we'll get into what's happening at capitol hill in a moment. the president around this time, the white house was effectively declaring victory on this big bill and saying he had all democrats on board. we sort of pumped the brakes on
3:16 am
the show because democrats we were talking to were saying gnat so fast, we have not seen what's in it. a meeting ahead with president macron and to the climate summit where he does not have anything concrete to show the united states is taking those big steps. >> certainly not due in those victorious hugs he had with those leaders and when he did those trips to nato. this is a different time, world leaders are disappointed of some of the things that the president has done with the withdrawal in afghanistan which he did not consult before pulling american troops out. the fiasco that followed did weaken america's image among european allies and the deal with the australian over the submarine technology that keir was just talking about alienated the french as well. that's on the international
3:17 am
stage. foreign leaders and foreign public watch very closely what's happening here in washington as well. they know that the president is in trouble with his own party. they know he has not been able to produce his on big pieces of legislation so far. they seen his approval rating slipped since that victorious tour in june, now he's hovering around 40%. that does not look good. it's a weaken american president who arrives in europe for the g-20 meeting and the climate change has not managed to produce a climate change deal. it's a tough week for him. this is not the trip he took in june or not the trip he would like to be taking. >> jonathan lemire, right now we are still awaiting to see what happens in washington, d.c. it looks like both sides are close to a deal.
3:18 am
it's not being done in a time frame that news editors and cable tv hosts would like to be done in. it's not certainly being done on a time frame that the president of the united states would want it to be complete, if you look at the outline of this bill, "the washington post" today talking about $555 billion climate change, that's a number that is six times the amount that barack obama got in his bill in 2009 which is considered to be vast and sweeping. carol browner who ran the epa for barack obama said this package is as game changer. there is never been anything like this before in u.s. history. you can go to other plans and
3:19 am
packages, universal pre-k, this is again they have to get through the legislative language and they need to complete it and come together. they do seem to be awfully close on the numbers. biden right now is -- he's facing a lot of challenges but it does appear that this dem eck party and this president are on the cusp of passing two mammoth pieces of legislation, both of which would be seen not only in america but across the world as a game changer. >> there is one key thing, those on the more conservative side who right now don't believe each other and part of what happens yesterday after the white house announced this framework that they believe all democrats would endorse and we indeed pump the brakes here on the show. they did not quite do that. manchin never quite got there.
3:20 am
progressives said well, that's not good enough. we have seen the texts now, it does not have anything in it. paid family leave and leaving america's one of the few nation in the world that does not have that. we also have of course child tax credit, things of medicare expansion. you are right, there are also good things in here that democrats believe including more climate change stuff than they thought a week ago. a lot of money here towards climb change which is something that the president pledged and would be a win. the timeline here is going to stretch out a little bit. there is some talk of a vote next week and there is a sense that may be slipped on that. white house's aides told me all along. there are two deadlines as a final point that they are on the verge of blowing. the president is not going to get to scotland with the climate
3:21 am
vision and there is it is virginia governor race, mcauliffe pleading to get this done. he's now down. democrats are worried about that. >> well, some democrats are worried about that. obviously democrats on the hill are not worried about that, at least some on the hill are not worried about that. and mika, progressives had moved from six to 3.5 to 1.5 or 1.8. they are well within their rights getting a sign-off from kirsten sinema because of manchin because of how much they moved their number. joe manchin has said he wants to see the language and progressives said they want to see the language. they are again, you look at the numbers are very close and maybe
3:22 am
they don't trust each other. they don't have to invite each other to thanksgiving dinner. they have to wrap up this deal and they're 95% of the way there to a bill that provides and think about this, this is sweeping universal pre-k for the united states of america. $555 billion investment in climate change and in technology in tax credits to help start the fight to move to slow down the rapid warming of this planet and radical climate change out there. again, i will say it again as "the washington post" wrote, this investment six times the amount of what barack obama did in 2009 when that was considered to be pushing the envelope. this is a vast sweeping piece of
3:23 am
legislation. i do think progressives are bernie and others are starting to talk about the great things in this bill because there are for democrats a lot of really remarkable things that they have an opportunity to pass if they can just get the language right. there is so much to brag about and americans need and feel out of the results of these plans. while i empathize with progressives not getting everything they want and some signature issues here not being addressed, some signature pieces of it. at the same time there is valuable time being wasted here from the president needing a win on the world's stage to these races, for example, in virginia that really need a win on the democratic side. they need a win to run on, they're not going to have it and we can see democrats could see the ramifications of that and the outcome in the race for
3:24 am
virginia governor. joining us now is cofounder of punch bowl news, what's the timeline, john, realistically what are we looking at here to get something done? >> well, joe knows as well as anybody. congress fills up all available time by procrastination and doing nothing. they added five weeks to their timeline. they're not going to vote next week. that's not going to happen on the build back better act. they have to kneel down the tax side of it and they're talking about immigration, paid family leave and manchin is dealing with and senator gillibrand, there is a lot of -- patty murray is sup set that's dropped and that's still up in the air. a lot of things that still have to be done before they get to build back better in passage.
3:25 am
the house goes and the senate goes. they have a chance to amend it and if they do, it goes back to the house. you can see this dragging for a while. we would be lucky to get it done by christmas. we are not sure if that's bad. the move yesterday, the move after yesterday is not good on the house side. there is a lot of frustration, a lot of sniping back and forth. again, as you were talking about mika, reception is reality. if mcauliffe loses, people are going to start talking about 2009, 2010 all over again. replay of it. >> if manchin has said over the past several days that we are rewriting the tax code, we are not going to rewrite the tax code in 24 hours. we are rewriting regulations on climate change. this is vast sweeping legislation. we are not going to be able to
3:26 am
have shake hands and have the deal after that. this is going to take a couple of weeks. with that said, what does it take to get manchin and sinema to at least an agreement saying we agree with the framework, we agree with the amount of money, we are just working on the actual numbers so the house can go ahead and pass that infrastructure bill before tuesday's election. >> yeah, you know sinema actually put out a statement yesterday praising the framework that president biden unveiled when he met with house democrats. it's manchin that had a bunch of issues just like you laid out especially on the tax side on the spending side, manchin had some big issues. he's concerned on the climate change and he's concerned they gone too far. you know they're not going to vote on the infrastructure bill next week. it does not seem likely.
3:27 am
i don't frankly, i don't think we'll make any difference. the election is on tuesday in virginia. it's not going to make any difference. i do think virginia, what happens there is going to echo back in the congress. maybe it may lights a fire. look, we lost virginia, we better get our act together, if that happens or if they squeak out a win. well, look, we got some time, it was close and you know -- we got some time. if mcauliffe lose virginia, that's a huge break up call for democrats. they could not face a repeat of what's happening to barack obama and democrats party in 2010, that's out there that possibly out there. >> yeah. >> joe, to your earlier point of what actually is in this bill and how big it already is even if it's a bit stripped down.
3:28 am
president biden said yesterday of course i am not getting everything in the bill. that's how it works. some members need to learn that you can't solve all the world's problem in one piece of legislation and by any historical standard, $1.7 trillion of social spending is a victory that we should take. >> we spent more money last year on road relief bills than we spent on adjusted money winning world war ii and passing the marshal plan. >> wow. >> it was massive historical spending last year. $1.2 trillion on an infrastructure bill is historic. 1.75 and $1.8 trillion on this supplemental, you know, the all that, he was not talking about trillions. he was talking billions. a trillion here and a trillion there, after a while that adds
3:29 am
up to real money. you look again at the sweeping nature of this legislation, and it's hard to believe that democrats can't figure out a way to spin this as a historical win, simply because it would be a historic win, john. >> yeah. >> just two thoughts on that, last night was the 41st anniversary of the reagan/carter debate. >> i don't mean to bring something so painful. >> oh my god. >> you remember president carter was even or ahead headed to that debate is seven days out from the election and the numbers broke starting today. 41 years ago by the weekend, it does not look great. >> what happens the next year?
3:30 am
1981, president reagan was scrambling not outline like the way there is a lot of scrambling now, what would be a hugely important shift of the fundamental american conversation about the relative role the state and the marketplace. it took fuel fully dark out, that's what lower marginal range, we live with the implications of that good and bad. what was he doing? he was trying to get democrats and successfully got democrats to vote for that. the blue dogs. remember the bull weevils? it's like we are talking about -- one word and i think i am right, check me on this and what john just said and katty said and jonathan said, the word
3:31 am
republican. didn't appear. it says as if we don't have a two-party system under a constitutional framework where we mediate our differences. the republicans out sourced, they're just not in the conversation. you can say oh because of their principle conservatism. look at what they spent last year. you just don't. that's one thing. >> we are focusing on the democrats because they are the only adults in the room right now. i think. >> personal of it. secondly, about the whole thing, there are two different ways to think of american politics, there is history time where people like harry truman to pick an example at random and dwight
3:32 am
eisenhower or george or bush. they pass big things that you don't see the effect for a long time. it costs them in a short term and i am thinking about president bush to say on the economic side, getting a budget deal that leads to a revolution. that was a good long-term policy decision, the tragedy of politics is what's good in the long-term intersects which is political time. and so these lines are rolling and i would focus on the history one. john meacham, long winded but very -- no.
3:33 am
by the way, a reminder to our viewers meacham is going to next hour be doing a lecture, willie. >> you stick around for that, willie. >> he lives down here. >> i was going say as you know you and i get together every friday and we play bingo and we play. >> i only have one slot left in my card and it was the tax bill. >> you got meacham bingo. >> that's what you get for coming after me. >> john meacham. i will be thinking about that. >>. >> the geist's bust. >> he had a bust himself that he
3:34 am
pulled out of his tactic here. let's go in. >> with a cigar in his mouth. >> we have shown it a couple of times, we should put it up on the screen again, the fox poll that had terry mcauliffe ahead and last time they took a pole and not so this time. republican youngkin is well ahead and a big push and big momentum and i have been hearing and i am sure you hav too from operatives and the republican party last week that all the momentum seemed to be on youngkin's side. things can change in the final weekend. when i was running, man, i always look at trends, everything going into the final weekend and right now the win seems to be behind youngkin's
3:35 am
best. >> if you look at the trends, you can see not long of a time just a wrong moment and it privately people inside mcauliffe, they are concerned, there is a reason they pull out every big gun to come into that state, barack obama and president biden himself and stacey abrams, but terry mcauliffe is struggling in this poll. he was up five points and now he's down eight. that's an extraordinary swing in a single poll. independent is a problem now for terry mcauliffe. i was on the floor when certain elections would come across the floor, it feels shock wave going across the floor. i know a couple of times the republican caucus would serenade
3:36 am
each other, okay, what the hell are we going to do now? this is a message we receive loud and clear. the same thing happening 2009 when bob mcdonald just absolutely crushed his democratic opponent, the year after barack obama won an election that everybody, the media was saying a game changer, a generational change for democrats and of course you remember 2010, you were there as well. 2010, when up in massachusetts, its got brown, the shocking victory. you talk about people in the white house was just about as stunned when donald trump won, like wise democrats on the hill knew bad things were coming and sure enough you had the wave of republican victories and the tea party coming into power in 2010. i am wondering what this
3:37 am
mcauliffe election would mean, a state that biden won by ten points last year. if mcauliffe is beaten in virginia, what impact does it have on the democratic caucus? >> i think it would be huge. moderates are already skittish. you talk about their messaging failure by democrats and the build back better act. it was kind of their own fall. they had a problem paying attention of what's going on in virginia. this is scary. i talked to stephanie murphy in florida last night, somebody you know. she talked about their results. they're clearly anger and moderates and i think that mcauliffe were to lose, it's going to be gasoline on all this
3:38 am
stuff. biden would have to come in, okay, folks, this is time and a wake up call, are we going to get it done. we'll get this bill passed and passed and get this out to the american people and give ourselves a shot in 2022, otherwise, historically first aelections are bad for a president, the first midterms are bad for a president, they got redistricting, mccarthy is already out there talking about he's going to be the next speaker, he's already thinking that. so i think democrats are already skittish in the house. we have seen a bunch of retirements and just my mcauliffe's loss, they would blame it on himself and his own failures, i think it would be bad news for the house democratic caucus. >> john, thank you very much. you may have heard me asking alex if we are teasing kate
3:39 am
bedingfield coming up, not teasing her because it's her birthday but promoting her that she will be on the show. >> still ahead, we'll be talking to her on the white house. >> it's funny it's her 40th birthday, i have a 40th birhday coming up in a few weeks. ugly incidents on america american flight. andrew cuomo has been charged in a sexual misconduct complaint. we'll dig into this and how it came out and what comes next. also, in new york the city is bracing for shortages of police officers and firefighters with the vaccine mandates said to take in effect on monday. this is becoming a really big story, former police commissioner bill bratton will be our guest. willie, you are amazing, you are
3:40 am
running the new york city marathon next weekend and it's for a great cause, near and dear to both of our hearts. tell us about it. >> this will hit you a couple of ways, parkinson's research of the michael j. fox, the first i have ever run. i decided to sign up for a marathon, they cancelled it last year, i kept running. i can't believe it saying it out loud and now i have to do it, a week from sunday, i am going to run those 26.2 miles all to raise money for parkinson's research for the michael j. fox foundation, my dad had parkinson's for 30 years now, i will have him in mind and especially those last or five six miles when i am told. the wall comes for you. i ran 20 miles last weekend and that was the peak of my training. that's all they had me do in training.
3:41 am
i am excited. new york city is electric that day. i have been to the marathon many times as a spectator and now i will be in the streets running. if anybody wants to help the cause, 100% of donations going to the michael j. fox foundation, we'll post it on social media. >> my mom has it and we are fighting hard. we are in full support of you and certainly making a donation. if people want to help the cause, where should they do? >> that's the michael j. fox foundation. >> so proud of you. thank you willie, we'll be right back with much more on "morning joe." back with much more on "morning joe.
3:42 am
bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ paul loves food. but his diabetes made food a mystery. everything felt like a "no". but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know.
3:43 am
try it for free. visit ♪♪ your new pharmacy is here. to make sure you don't run out of meds here. and with amazon prime, get refills and free two-day shipping. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy. find your rhythm. your happy place. who knew it could be this easy? find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a
3:44 am
potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best with emergen-c. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
3:45 am
3:46 am
a night attendant has been hospitalized that forced an emergency landing. stephanie gosk has more. >> reporter: an american flight from new york to california forced to make an emergency landing from denver. the airline's ceo spoke out. >> reporter: the flight attendant accidentally bumped into a passenger and apologized. the man walked to the back of the plane and punched the flight attendant twice in the face. >> i did see her walk out, she had blood splattered on the outside of her mask. >> reporter: this was the man involved, handcuffed by police on the ground. this type of behavior has to stop. the best to turn is aggressive
3:47 am
prosecution. there has been 5,000 reports of bad behaviors this year. crimes in the air are the fbi's jurisdictions. >> do you think there have been enough prosecutions of these incidents? >> there that is not been nearly enough deal. doj needs to step it up right now. people need to land in jail. >> reporter: the president of the union feeling it on a personal level. >> every single attendant is with the attendant right now. >> reporter: the fbi is investigating. the airline is calling on the agency to press criminal charges. >> a few more details about what took place. this is a picture of the passenger being duct taped to
3:48 am
his seat after allegedly breaking the flight attendant's nose and there are unconfirmed report that the man may have objected to wearing a mask in first class. >> she's right, he needs to go to jail along with a lot of people on these planes. let's turn to new york, former governor cuomo has been charged. cuomo is directed to appear in court on november 17th to be arraigned on a charge of forcible touching. the alleged interaction occurred on december 7th of last year. the complaint tells us, court document says do not name the woman involved. sources told the albany time, the summon was issued without her attorney's knowledge. she was surprised by the turn of
3:49 am
events but has been and will remain in a resolute victim. he wrote in a statement, like the rest of the public, we were surprised to learn today that a criminal complaint was filed in albany court, he added his office will not comment further. the three-term former governor issued a denial saying cuomo has never assaulted anyone. this is not professional law enforcement. this is pollpolitics. let's bring in tom winters. what's going on here? >> the sheriff's office went forward to the court presented probable cause for at least with the investigation they have come forward so far and the court essentially said you got enough of issues of summons so he's going answer for that. it involves a grand jury and
3:50 am
presented an indictment and there could be all sorts of different mechanisms for which you charge somebody and this is the mechanism that the sheriff's office chose yesterday. >> tom, what happens next? this is the charge comes against the former governor, is he going to be arrested or what sort of if this goes forward and he's convicted, what punishment could he face? too the court is directed to show november 17th, that's the next step for him. he's going to have to show up and he'll have to go through, that calls for one to one year in prison. this particular new york's state statute as charge. and the fact if she's the vick for this. she's not named in this criminal complaint that we saw yesterday. the victim's name is redacted.
3:51 am
because of her age in the stage, the governor would not have to register as a sex offender if convicted. that's what he faces long-term. his political prospects is entirely different matter. he faces some trouble. the nation's largest fire department is bracing for a possible first responder shortage. municipal workers take effect on monday and nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: outside the new york city, mayor's residence today outraged if firefighters and supporters over a vaccine mandate impacting 160,000 city employees and the deadline approve of one shot, friday evening. >> i don't feel i should be
3:52 am
coursed taking it before i am ready to. >> i am vaccinated. >> reporter: employees don't comply faced unpaid leave starting monday. up to one fifth of fire company could close. >> our rights are more important than mandates. >> reporter: mayor blasio faced mandates of trash. >> anyone who's not doing their job, you are harming your fellow's sanitation workers and you are harming the city of new york. it's time to stop. >> reporter: across the country is intensifying, not just street rallies but courtrooms. in chicago, first responders are asking the judge to block a vaccine mandate. 21 attorney generals have signed
3:53 am
this letter challenging the biden's requirements for federal contractors and florida filed a lawsuit. >> we do have a responsibility to stand up for our authority here to govern ourselves. >> you know it's so unbelieverable, tom, that of the idiocy and how the people mocking those on the far left and hollywood who are antivaxers and the same governors who are bragging about their high vaccination rates like mississippi where they did not have the religious exemption, they're rushing to look like the hollywood stars who are the antivaxers, it's hard to fathom
3:54 am
how quickly this has shift. talk about it, what's the big resistance. >> i remember standing out. firefighters and emts were getting the vaccine that day and department, it was a feeling of wow, this pandemic can be turning the corner and now to get to this point where people are demonstrating outside the mayor's office, it's a pretty big change. there is a couple of factors here. we have new numbers this morning, 70% of nypd is vaccinated. both of those lags which is 86%
3:55 am
of individuals getting vaxed, not to impress my elementary math teacher, if you look at those statistics, you got 20% of nypd civilians have not been vaccinate as of this morning. that's over 10,000 cops as we heard from gabe, you are talking about one and five companies that could be impacted from this emts. may have to pull mutual aid comes monday. this is some challenges here and some challenges with respect to the calendar. this is halloween weekend in new york city and some real concerns as far as the normal demand just because halloween mischiefs and what happens on halloween weekend. the draw down on resources could be in play. there are a number of questions coming up. why are we here? it's a microcasm of the debate. there is a minority that don't want to get the shot and there
3:56 am
is an even smaller minority that's very vocal that's out against this idea of having any sort of mandate whatsoever. you got the largest ems union in new york city saying the two members of his union died within four days of getting the shots. if fdny is saying that's not true. they rejected that occurrence. it's that type of rhetoric that really hurt this issue. >> lies and conspiracy theories. it's political propaganda. jonathan lemire, it's just absolute outrageous. statistics that we heard and we have read that has been the case throughout the year is that and many places, more police officers have died of covid than any other cause this year. >> let's take those signs down. i don't want to see those signs.
3:57 am
i don't want to see signs from people who are believing conspiracy theories on facebook. >> and you know jonathan lemire, eight out of ten is not bad. we talked about ronald reagan before. the wind air traffic controller didn't work, ronald reagan fired them. i am sure a lot of new york city residents would be glad to see antivaxers who come to their front door and spread a disease. or actually even have that mindset. should i like to see a reagan-type move here, if they don't get vaccinated, fire them. >> but, it's certainly end up down that road if they were not
3:58 am
to get to vaccine. they hear she can come back to work. you are right, these are city workers who of course performed so heroically during the pandemic. they made that note that more police officers and law enforcement officers have died in the last two years of covid than any other reason. so many of the uniformed services, there is no refusal from taking the vaccine from political stances or whatever it may be. they're jeopardizing their own health because they're out interacting with the public. and this is mayor here in new york but also of course across the country, no, that's not good enough, you got to get the shot. >> mika, it's important to point out, both commissioners and nypd have said go get your shots. they are endoring the shots to
3:59 am
get the shot but there is a small group led by some of the unions saying we are not going to do it. >> nbc's tom winters. thank you very, very much for your reporting this morning. coming up, do president biden's struggles with progressives leaving him few places to turn? we'll break down the new polling on that front. a note of the new episode of joe's podcast is out tomorrow. hosting roger bennett. >> he's great. >> he's nuts. >> he's nuts about his new york times best selling book "reborn in the usa," which i love. the brilliance of the brothers. being scared to appear with tom brokaw. what's that about? >> he said he was inspired to come to the united states not by
4:00 am
reading the deckddeclaration. >> the joe scarborough's podcast is available now on spotify or apple music or where you get your podcast. we are back in one minute. podct we are back in one minute. posedr sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. i was injured in a car crash. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. i had no idea how much my case was worth. i called the barnes firm. when a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. i called the barnes firm. it was the best call i could've made. your case is often worth more than insuran call the barnes firm to find out i could've made. what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible.
4:01 am
♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪
4:02 am
♪♪ live look at where all the action should be on capitol hill. welcome back to "morning joe," it's friday, october 29th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us and joining the conversation we have jean robinson. and host of the podcast on brand with donny deutsche and mo eliffe. good to have you on board with
4:03 am
us. >> katty kay, tell us where the democrats stand right now. >> either on the verge of snatching defeat from the jewels of victory or delaying this by a week in which case probably all the democrats i speak to in the white house and capitol hill saying listen, if we she done, the process does not matter and the fact that it's messy did not matter and we delayed a week after the president went to rome, none of that will matter. >> it means a lot for american parents. if it gets done, all of this would not matter, it would recede into the rear-view mirror. a lot of people have casted their ballots.
4:04 am
but, that's where they stand if they can get it done. that's not 100% sure yet. >> not 100% sure yet and if they get it done and looks like they get much closer than they have been in the past. to paraphrase the sitting president, slightly, that'll be a big friggin' deal. >> yeah, it would be. a lot of this success, our most recent polls show the president's numbers are down and democrats and congress and our republicans in congress numbers are down. people are frustrated because of one thing, a lack of results. if you look at the projectory, his numbers were solid when they
4:05 am
had a clear message. checks in your wallets and shots in arms. they got this framework done for infrastructure and his popularity continued to do well. but since then the message out of washington has not been crystal clear. it's been a big fight over a big number, not about specifics but about a big number. they need to get this out there and what this big number translates to and you may start to see the number stabilizing. the best thing that democrats are going now and the polling is they are running against republicans who have a 20% aprooufrl rating in the clear.
4:06 am
>> i would love if i were a democrat to actually get both of these bills passed. i would love to campaign against city republicans anywhere in america because you talk about, truman talking about the do nothing congress in 48 do nothing republicans. if you are a democrat, you say, we passed the historic bill that makes the greatest and your local airports with broad band, what did the republicans do? they blocked an investigation. we gave you universal pre-k. what do the republicans do? they blocked us from being able to pay their debts and so doing help the communist chinese be more competitive against us economically globally. you can go down the list.
4:07 am
this is not a close call. they have to pass the damn bills. >> i think people under estimate as you did not just now, the political impact of a hard infrastructure bill. this is a lot of money that goes into steal and concrete and broad band and a lot of things that are visible and tangible to people and that people realized are needed and of course there is the human and infrastructure part. as katty said for increasing years of paid education from 12 to 14 of money for home care, there is ton of stuff in the framework which is written down now, that people will feel and
4:08 am
people will like and democrats will be able to campaign on but as you said, they got to pass it and it's time to pass it. i understood what progress pro holding out and keep moving the bill in the progressive direction. now all the encouragement ought to be on both to the progressives and to manchin and sinema who don't get a free pass on this. they're democrats and they're going to need, you know, they're people who needs people. they're going to need other senators and they're going to need some day for the house to skin in this game too. it's time for all of them to just say okay, we are done with the game theory and
4:09 am
negotiations. let's pass the legislation and let's campaign on it. >> so, in a few moments, we'll be talking to kate bedingfield, their point of view on all of this and where it's going. >> donny, for pr progressives, we can get this all through. how can they brand this to brag on it? >> that's a great question as to where i was going. one of the problems with this bill, if you look at the bills throughout time we kind of said these are game changers, civil rights act, obamacare, healthcare, voting rights, they had a singular end benefit. a little bit of a problem here is there is not a focus. i thought how do i brand this thing? it's hard to in a bumper sticker and we are in a bumper sticker world to go out there, this is
4:10 am
it is family's first bill and human infrastructure does not do it. one of the problems and the reasons keep oncoming back to money is that's been the only handle. it's so much good stuff in here. my concern is if i have got to go out and say to an end consumer, it's a little mushy-gushy, too many things to too many people. >> good news is amazing stuff. >> yeah. go ahead. >> what would you replace human infrastructure with. i don't get that, i want to know what it means. >> what is it is bridge no pun-intended to infrastructure to human infrastructure. i would say climate and pre-k, it's making family's futures better. that's a little mushy-mushy. i thought a lot about this. >> let's try this. are you ready?
4:11 am
>> we are talking about restarting america. we are restarting america. we are rebuilding america. >> i got it. >> there is a grid look in washington, d.c. for 20 years. they won't pass bills. barack obama, his final six years could not pass a single piece of legislation because republicans stopped it in their tracks. during the trump administration, they passed a huge tax cut for billionaires that's all they did. they never reinvested in bridges or roads or broad band or never invested in education. we are giving you universal pre-k, we are fixing your roads. we are making your bridges safe. we are giving you and your family broad band and your community broad band where it's never given before. we are making your airports better. we are making the skies over head safer, we are doing something. we are restarting america whether the republicans like it or not. boom, what do you think?
4:12 am
>> the restarting is nice, i actually like that. that's where you get the big bucks, my friend. i like restart america but it does not have the single consumer and benefit. it still does not have the one sweeping ah, here is what happens. i am just looking for the kind of red ribbon on this thing and it's hard to get it on it. >> well, mo, we can talk about from cradle to grave that the safety net has been expanded here. a universal pre-k, a big deal, a historic change. the sort of things that joe manchin was pushing forward for the rest of democrats on end of life care, helping senior citizens of their end of life and between again, the masive infrastructure and that adds up to three things, jobs and more jobs. it seems like a huge win for
4:13 am
democrats. >> i mean, look, people are frustrated and our polls show america believes the next generation is going to be worse off economically. that's such as we as americans typically think. they think the next generation is going to be worst off economically and they believe the fullization is going to get worse a year from now than it's today. that's a change in our polling. people were optimistic. it's bad now but it will be better. they don't believe that anymore. and a lot of that i think because of the lack of results, because we are too busy. when given a choice between a political leader who will compromise my values in order to get something done verses a political leader who's going to
4:14 am
stand up and fight for my values all the time even if it means nothing gets done. it ain't close. people overwhelmingly want to compromise if it gets results. that's why they are frustrated right now because they are not getting it. >> mo, thank you so much for being on. it's great to have you on the show. >> jonathan lemire, i was looking at the georgetown poll. you know it's interesting, we have had a lot of talk about climate change and politicians talking abtd the importance of addressing climate change and yet you would look and polls and usually of a rate of 3% or 4%, a top voter concerns in this georgetown poll, climate change at the top, i would tell you, i do hear it now. more than i have ever heard it before. more concerns coming from republicans. you know five years ago, you can find republicans who would still
4:15 am
deny there was climate change. i don't hear that anymore. now what i am hearing is yes, this climate change, the question is how do we address it and unusually for a lot of republicans that's just an excuse not to address it. it seems to me though that most americans are now starting to understand how real climate change is and what a grave risk to our future. >> yeah, there are a few out liars there and donald trump particularly have been skeptical of climate change and his golf courses in places like scotland applied for funding combatting the impact of climate change on the coast there. >> you are right. a steady increase over recent years of climate change and among americans and citizens around the globe. people that i have talked to believer this thing is simply because in their face. it's day after day and stories of the temperature rising, more than that is extreme weather
4:16 am
events. that's bad but i don't live in florida, that's okay. or, it's the wildfires in california, i don't live there, it's okay. now if you live in the east coast, you are getting smoke from that wildfires because it's so huge it's darkening the skies here and breathing in the smoke. we have in new york city, a number of huge storms that are causing significant flooding and washing out subways and people holding onto dear live. climate change impact everywhere. senate r manchin posting parts of it. again, we come back to this idea of the president is heading to glasgow a few days for the summit, at least for now the only leader there without
4:17 am
commitment of greenhouse emissions there because of failures by the democratic party so far to get it done even though more americans want it to happen. >> katty kay talk about the i am impact for the president coming up with nothing on the climate exchange. >> there were two deadlines, right? two reasons, he had the virginia gubernatorial race coming up and hoping to get something done by that. it does not look like it's going to be done in time. america had this huge piece of legislation, this piece of legislation is bigger than anything else america have done. the sticks being taken out of that. there is a carrot there of tax subsidy for clean energy and alternatives and start-up. there is not much in a way of a
4:18 am
stick. you got to have a stick. you have to have some penalty for people that carry on polluting otherwise people are not going to change that behavior. so interesting to see and even above inflation. what are we talking about. and yet, climate change are a bigger voting issue. >> yes, absolutely. joining us now is kate bedingfield, kate, i just know on your 40th birthday, this is exactly where you want to be. first of all, inside the white house, the sun is not out and your kids are like where is mommy, you are here with us. happy birthday! >> i could not imagine a better way to kickoff my 40th birthday. thank you for having me. >> you are welcome. >> it's all very exciting. we look forward to mika's 40th
4:19 am
birthday. >> 14 years ago. >> i will give you some tips. >> kate, the president going to europe and scotland and eventually without a climate deal, that said with the front page of "the washington post" lays out clearly, democrats are really close to a $555 billion climb change bill, six times as bilge as barack obama passed in '09, a real game changer, this is a historic bill and what does it mean to the president to be able to tell them hey, this is going to happen, we are just sort of crossing the t's and dotting the i's. >> well, you are absolutely right. it's a historic bill. it's going to be the single most transformative and climb climate
4:20 am
change we put. the president is confident that he's going to pass the senate and the house. congresswoman jayapal was talking about this. the president is going to be talking about what america is doing and how we are moving forward and how we are leading on climate change and world leaders can see we are making progress here. tacking the crisis and what he's doing overseas. >> progressives have moved as we would say in the south country mile. you still have two moderate democrat it is that have not given their sign-off yet. does the president expects joe
4:21 am
manchin and kirsten sinema to give their sign-off today. it's a product of months and months of consultations. with folks all across the spectrum, he spends a tremendous amount of time with progressives with folks in the house and the senate. what he put forward is what he believes a package that's going to pass the house and the senate. there is still a bit of work to do but we saw tremendous moment yesterday, we are pushing forward and congress is pushing forward, we'll get it done. >> kate, good morning and happy birthday. >> good morning, thank you. >> there is certainly some grumbling of things that's a fall-out. it will be a huge number and make changes. certain things that people care about seems to be gone. things that the president campaigned on is gone. one of them is paid family leave.
4:22 am
the united states is one of six countries not to have a national paid family leave. how do the president explain this and sorry we could not deliver this? >> it's why he proposed it and something he ran on and believes in. something that's he's going to keep fighting for. the other thing that he ran on is a belief that compromised and consensus is not a dirty work. we have to find ways to work together to get things done. our government have been locked in on deadlock unable to get anything done because people are unwilling to come together and find consensus. the president ran for president and saying this is something he'll do and now he's delivering on that. it does not mean he'll stop fighting. obviously he didn't get everything he wanted. a transformative is going to have a huge impact in the middle class. it's going to tackle the climate
4:23 am
crisis that we have been talking about. it's a significant transformative package. >> talk about universal pre-k. this seems to be the type of guarantee for americans that 5 or 10 years from now, they'll take it for granted and they don't understand how long the fight was to get universal pre-k. talk about house significant and how sweeping the president believers that is? >> enormous. this is the first time we are adding mandatory universal schooling to education to the united states and over 100 years. it gives kids more earning power and parents who are working parents who have some where they know their kids are learning.
4:24 am
you can't say enough about how significant and important it's. it's going to be universal and make us competitive. this is the kind of thing that china has been doing for years. it's a strategic investment in their competitiveness. the president views it through that lens as well. i think that's one of the most significant pieces of this package and certainly the president believes it's beginning to be transformative for families across the country. speaking of china and earlier climate change, we can't make great progress on climate change globally without china playing an active role. they are obviously by and large the biggest contributor to pollution. what's the next time that the president may have an opportunity to sit down with the president of china to talk about
4:25 am
climate change and the other issues that are confronting us? >> well, they spoken as you know and i would anticipate they would speak again in some point at the coming months. the president maintained a long relationship with president xi. and so i certainly expect that they'll speak again in the coming months and climate is front and center in that conversation. i think what the president is going to achieve is continue to show america's leadership on the world's stage on these issues. this is something that tacking the climate crisis is something he has taken on everyday since he came onto office, built into all of the work she's doing not just with this legislation which is a mass sifr step forward. things that he can do as president. he views this as existential and he's going to push forward.
4:26 am
>> finally, let's talk about france. they're sounding a bit of missouri native. show me what you can do for me after letting us down, the french believe that is obviously they were blindsided, what does the president expect in his meetings with macron and what can we offer the french to help heal the breach in this relationship? >> well, the breach such as it was is healing. the president has spoken to president macron over the last couple of times. they'll meet today and talk about our share interests. we have enormous shared interests on things like counter terrorism and in the endo pacific. we are supportive of the eu strategy. as you know well, they are our oldest allies, we have shared
4:27 am
values which president biden values this relationship tremendously, he's looking forward to the meeting today and there is going to be a lot of progress made on our shared interests. >> white house communications director, kate bedingfield, happy birthday. thank you for being on the show. >> what about the braves? do the braves win the series? >> game two is a little rough but they look so good. >> it has been declared the braves will be world series down. >> thanks so much and happy birthday, kate. >> thank you, guys. donny deutsche, before we jump to facebook which has a new name. did you get any branding out there, there were so many different things in the plan. >> one thing that's interesting, i like joe's restarting america.
4:28 am
climate change turning it into an end benefit protecting our children. they need to make it as the end benefit or oppose to human infrastructure bill. that stuff does not connect over here. >> does not stick. >> all right, so now facebook, they changed their name to meta. what's going on? what do you make of that? >> forget the problems they are having. they want to be known and the future is in virtual reality and so many things of this
4:29 am
metaverse. the name of the brand is not changed. we are not going to be using meta, we are still using facebook. this is a strategic move in the future to let people know social media is the smaller part of the overall corporate. this does not solve any of problems. their problems do not go away. >> all right, thank you very much. we appreciate you being on. still ahead, we'll go live to rome for an update on the president's trip overseas and high stakes summit with foreign leaders. plus, eric holder is bringing a top priority of his time at the justice department to his role as chair of the national democratic redistricting committee. he joins us next. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. e watching we'll be right back.
4:30 am
so, should all our it move to the cloud? the cloud would give us more flexibility, but we lose control. ♪ ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ and we need insights across our data silos, but how? ♪ if i go there will be trouble ♪ ♪ ♪ wait, we can stay and go. hpe greenlake is the platform that brings the cloud to us. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ ♪ bogeys on your six, limu. ♪ should i stay they need customizednow? ♪ car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
4:31 am
as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth,
4:32 am
tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that ask youliberty mutual nucala. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
4:33 am
4:34 am
i think we can, i am not sure we will. that comes from, my dad used to say all the time. son, where ever there is a will, there is a way. so i am not too sure that democrats will develop the will to win for 2022. >> ouch! house majority whip james clyburn warned democrats they may lose the party 2022 because of divisions within the party. the battle over owe districting and state redistricting.
4:35 am
democrats are sounding the alarm over what they say are attempts to suppress minority voters through redrawn district lines. joining us now former attorney general, eric holder, he's chair of the national democratic redistricting committee and has been at the forefront of the fight for voting rights. it's really good to have you back on the show. tell us what area in terms of redistricting are most important right now to get it right? >> well, i think you know all the staej in the process of redistricting so i think if we want to make sure we are focusing on the nation and its entirety. states have given me the greatest concern, texas, georgia and north carolina, the state where you have total republican
4:36 am
control where they indicated desire to gerrymander on a partisan basis. >> we looked at what worked in iowa. i know some democrats are concerned of arizona, the story i saw yesterday went from probably a 5-4 democrat/republican break down. that sounds better than most states. there is just not enough toss up democratics, how do we get back there where people actually go to congress and have to listen to both sides? >> well, you can create toss up district, joe. if you look at what happens in texas, they took the number of seats down from 12 to 1.
4:37 am
a state that had increing population, 95% of that growth generated by an increase of the population of people of color. they have drawn districts there. they drawn more white districts in texas than before. the lines that are drawn will have an impact on the competitiveness of the district. all we have been fighting for is make sure the process is fair. if we do progressives will be just fine. >> how do americans claim outside of washington who claim to gerrymandering, what steps do they take to move beyond the sort of gerrymandering. >> he's participating in the process. one of things we have been doing
4:38 am
is making sure people go to the hearing where the lines are drawn or see the people getting involved in the process ending up a fair amount. we supported the creation of these independent commissions to draw the lines and take the power away from interested politicians. there is a whole variety of things. you know the process does not have to be the way it was back in 2011 when princeton university did the study and said it was the worst gerrymandering in 20 years. make sure the process was as fair as it possibly could be in 2021. >> jean robinso jumps in. >> one of the problems i think, correct me if i am wrong now that we have the technology to do gerrymandering on steroids, doing it on a grandular level
4:39 am
and feed everything in the computers and coming out with districts that are manifestively unfair. if there is a way to combat that, what is it? >> technology plays a huge role on this. that was one of the reasons why republicans did better. with the use of technology, you can do it by house by house. technology can be a factor for good but used inappropriate way, it can -- >> question for you, the gerrymandering is something that we come to associate with republicans and they have been using it as a tool in recent
4:40 am
years. in the state of illinois, democrats are doing so in an effort to control house of representatives. what's your comment on that? >> i have not seen the final map that's been passed in illinois. increase in a number of young people, all of those factors would tend to indicate favoring democrats as oppose to republicans. i am against gerrymandering and i understand we are passed just last night. >> mr. holder, the most concerning thing it seems to me among all the things that's taken place in the states that you mentioned earlier is giving state legislatures the chance to oversee the final results in the way they have not done now, is
4:41 am
there anything could be done to change that in the courts, is there anything the department of justice can do to change it? >> the freedom to vote act, you have provisions that prevents and over rule the will of the voters when it comes to elections. we have been talking about the infrastructure bill. those things really matter. they're extremely important of the lives of the american people. the most important legislation that congress is going to have the consider are these voting reforms. our democracy is at stake. we have to make sure that we are doing all we can to protect our democratic system of government. these two bills will in fact do that by preventing the kind of things we attempted over the course last few months and what
4:42 am
we saw on january 6th. >> eric holder, thank you so much for what you are doing and thank you for coming on the show today. we appreciate it. coming up, a day after printing donald trump's letter to the editor. the wall street journal takes the time to obliterate his conspiracy theories. "morning joe" is coming right back. theories. "morning joe" is coming right back
4:43 am
as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover.
4:44 am
your eyes. beautiful on the outside, but if you have diabetes, there can be some not-so-pretty stuff going on, on the inside. it's true, if you have diabetes, you know high blood sugar is the root of the problem. but that excess sugar can cause the blood vessels to be seriously damaged. and when that happens, this could happen, vision loss or even blindness. that's right, diabetic retinopathy is a leading cause of blindness for adults in the u.s. but even though you can't see it, there is something you can do about it. remember this: now is the time to get your eyes checked. eye care is an incredibly important part of your long-term diabetes management. see a path forward with actions and treatments that may help your eyes— and protect against vision loss. just say to yourself, “now eye see.” then—go see an eye care specialist. visit to get the facts about diabetes, your eyes,
4:45 am
and what you can do next—to take control of your sight. brought to you by regeneron. and what you can do next—to take control of your sight. (sfx: video game vehicle noises, horns beeping,) (engines revving, cars hitting one another.) (sfx: continued vehicle calamity.) just think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist, including automatic emergency braking. find new peace of mind. find new roads. chevrolet.
4:46 am
46 past the hour. the wall street journal defends its decision published a letter to former president trump where
4:47 am
he repeated baseless claims of fraud in pennsylvania. the letter was published on wednesday. the board refuted many of trump's claims and explained its decisions writing in part, we think it's news when an ex-president who may run in 2024 wrote what he did even or perhaps especially if his claims are bananas. mr. trump's letter is his familiar barage with 20 bullet points of irregularities that he says proved the election is rigged. it's difficult to respond to everything. he tosses enough unsourced numbers in 30 seconds to keep a fact-checker busy for 30 days. he's making this claim elsewhere. we did him a special favor by
4:48 am
letting him respond to our editorial. we offer the same courtesy to others we recognize even when they make allegations that are falls. as for the media, they diminished mr. trump and did nothing to diminish his credibility. >> this is bull. they have more credibility in refuting mr. trump. >> if you can ignore, if you can ignore the sort of virtue signaling to the most hard core trump readers on the quote, "russia hoax collusion thing" and you can ignore the media bashing at the top which you find in the heart of that editorial of deep-boning donald trump's conspiracy claims. they go state by state and they point out the fact that yes, and i agree what the pennsylvania
4:49 am
supreme court did, i had questions with it at the time. i said that here but they bring up at the supreme court and put those votes to the side, it does not have any impact and it went through one claim after another and another. and showed that the conspiracy theories were just lies. one of the things i found interesting was that a couple of things that wall street journal editorial page says, they talked about the symmetry for trump's light. it makes it hard for the media. he lies sos often and he lies so much. you just can't keep up with the light. you let the light stand as
4:50 am
facts or you spend your time trying to rebut his outrageous lies. i find this with my friends who chase conspiracy theories, you rebut one claim and then you go yeah, what about the italian guy? you rebut the italian guy, they. what about in georgia when they picked up -- they picked up that thing from underneath -- and you rebut that lie and then they come up with another. it's a never-ending whacamole. >> why did "the journal's" editorial page aid and abet him in his asymmetrical truth. it is not true they accord anybody they criticize the right to the ability to write an op-ed length letter to the editor full
4:51 am
of lies and publish it. they cap the length of letters to the editor and they police their pages for blatant, outright lies they know are lies. yet they published it. they did publish the next day but that's a day late and a dollar short. if you had to do it, you should publish them side-by-side and publish the lies and publish the truth side-by-side if you're going to do it at all. i don't understand the point of the whole exercise except to try to not get on the wrong side of the trump base and to the extent they are readers of "the wall street journal." that's the only -- or to not try to get on the wrong side of
4:52 am
rupert murdoch who owns "the wall street journal." other than that, you know, i have nothing for you as to why they would do what is really a wacky thing. you publish a piece and then say what we published is actually completely full of lies. what was the point? >> what "the wall street journal" editorial said, katty, the guy wants to run in 2024 and that he would write something that was so, as they said, bananas, was news in and of itself, and that people should judge him on that. i like gene's idea, the side-by-side comparison where, okay, so you're going to run a former president's crazy letter, which is news. it's a crazy -- it's a crazy letter. that's fine. and then run side by side a point by point refuting of every one of his conspiracy theories
4:53 am
and lies. >> you either do it side by side or have it fact checked as you go along. this has caused a huge amount of consternation to "the wall street journal's" reporters who are really good reporters and have reported on this kind of lying from president trump for years and pointed out the specifics in this letter for years. i don't know what the editorial board was thinking. maybe they just weren't thinking because they seemed to have annoyed all of their staff. they've had to come out and do a sort of double take on all of this and, of course, we're now talking about it. so who wins and gets the attention he wanted? donald trump. and donald trump has no shame. he doesn't care that we're calling him out for lying. he doesn't care "the wall street journal" is saying there are inaccuracies there. he likes it's out there and people are talking about him. >> so, katty, such a great point. it's not like this is new either. "the wall street journal" has had four years to learn donald trump lies and that he spews
4:54 am
multiple lies at the same time even at the peril of the country. and that many times news organizations have chosen to live fact check him on television because there were so many lies. so why -- i hate to monday morning quarterback, another organization's decision, it's annoying, but at the same time fact check it in real time. we can do this. we've learned this about this one political figure that the lies come in multiples. >> it's something, again, a side-by-side comparison might be a better way to do it moving forward. i will say i found a lot of things to be critical of "the wall street journal" editorial page when it comes to their opinions on russia. i will say on the stop the steal
4:55 am
nonsense and conspiracy theory they've been dead on, dead right about that. they've been dead right about all of donald trump's conspiracy theories especially after the election, but, also, leading up to the election as well. >> great reporters there. >> oh, and my gosh, the news side -- i think everybody here would agree -- >> must be very frustrated. >> -- is absolutely extraordinary. still ahead in a packed 8:00 a.m. hour, former please commissioner bill bratton joins us as new york city braces for a staff shortage in precincts and firehouses ahead of a looming deadline for city workers to meet a vaccine mandate. plus, what we're learning about the events surrounding the deadly movie set shooting in santa fe after a new statement from the armerer on set. we'll speak with the former national security council official, fiona hill, about
4:56 am
what's at stake. also, the latest from the committee investigating the attack on the capitol, including a potential subpoena from trump adviser -- for trump adviser john eastman. michael schmidt of "the new york times" joins us with his reporting. "morning joe" is coming back live in just a few moments.
4:57 am
vo: it's always been true, that each generation has a moment to make sure it's leaving the world a better place for future generations. and right now is our moment. climate change has reached a crisis point. our very way of life is at risk. members of congress you have a chance, right now, to pass a plan that finally takes it on. this isn't just another vote, it's your moment to get it right for them. congress, pass the build back better act.
4:58 am
as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback?
4:59 am
you got it. ♪ liberty, liberty - liberty, liberty ♪ uh, i'll settle for something i can dance to. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
5:00 am
♪♪ it is the top of the hour, a live look at the white house. welcome back to "morning joe. "it's friday, october 29th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us. it's been a busy morning already for president biden who kicked off his second foreign trip as president at the vatican where he met with pope francis. it opened a five-day european trip for the president which comes against the backdrop of
5:01 am
high-stakes negotiations over his domestic agenda back here at home. joining us from rome nbc news white house correspondent, what's on tap for the president today and what are you hearing from the white house about the fact that he can't bring a win with him? >> reporter: well, mika, for me with the pope is always aspecia historic one in the case of joe biden who is only the second catholic president in the history of this country. what's so unprecedented we've never had a president and a pope have a pre-existing relationship, certainly one as deep and personal as the one that president biden has with pope francis. the white house just informed us the one-on-one meeting last the 90 minutes. that's far longer than one of these meetings would typically have. he's in an expanded meeting with
5:02 am
a respected vatican and papal delegation. the first catholic vice president in our country's history led the delegation. it was then, biden later said, pope francis said you're always welcome here. and then when a particularly significant moment for then vice president joe biden. he had just buried his son beau several months earlier. pope francis had an unusually intimate and private meeting not just with joe biden but his extended family. biden was really struck by the fact that pope francis spoke in a way that was so meaningful to him. and so that really established that personal relationship that
5:03 am
we see today. a year later then vice president biden was welcomed at the pope's invitation to speak about cancer research. we know these two have kept in correspondence. joe biden quoted from it on the campaign trail, a stark break from john f. kennedy who took pains to establish his independence from rome. the president leaving momentarily it would be a significant gesture if he were to be joined by pope francis on the way out. this is the easiest meeting the president will have. from here he goes on to the presidential palace. the prime minister later and later today a fence mending meeting between him and emmanuel macron. that australian nuclear submarine deal caused a rift.
5:04 am
we heard the breach such as it was has begun to amend. a setback for the president to be able to come here to this conference, the g20 meeting, without deliverables on his own part. this is going to be a summit that devolves into a global minimum tax the president has taken a lead in urging others to adopt. the president comes here without being able to say whether the u.s. will be able to adopt it itself. even as the white house has down played it saying other leaders understand the complications of u.s. politics, they also know this is a president who has talked about the importance of delivering for their people and see domestic trouble for the president here. >> thank you. now we want to perhaps move to covid but maybe talk to katty first about the implications of this trip, this president on the
5:05 am
world stage. not to trigger anyone, but this is a lot different than the last president when he would make appearances on the world stage. >> well, we don't -- we certainly -- >> it's really different. >> i know you certainly would never want to trigger anybody, mika, talking about donald trump. katty kay, a good meeting with the pope, a longer meeting than usual. they have a very special relationship and kate bedingfield saying, also, she believes that any problems with the french will be mended later on today. >> it's 8:00 in the morning. we'll hold off on the triggering on donald trump . it's certainly true we've had a poll out recently that global views of the united states have risen dramatically. that's no surprise even with all of the problems that the president has at the moment he's still a president who is much
5:06 am
better received on the world stage than donald trump is. that's a pretty low bar, frankly, and his challenge is to get over the rift with the french specifically, that meeting with macron and as kate said they feel they're getting some way towards doing that. they didn't need to do it like that. it's been a pattern with this administration of not keeping allies in the loop and not communicating. some of the problems over afghanistan were over not communicating. the french didn't need to find that out through the press. it would have worked better. the g20 is a much bigger group than the g7 which is what president biden met in june and there are countries within the g20 with much closer ties to china than in the g7. there are countries that are looking to china and china's money and to china's investment opportunities and are wondering, you know, is the chinese model better suited for us, frankly, than the american model?
5:07 am
the theme of president biden's presidency so far has been democracy has to be shown to work because, otherwise, people will look to autocratic systems like the chinese. in a way the g20 is a real test because so far joe biden hasn't been able to go there and say, look, i've managed to make democracy work for the rest of the world. >> well, of course, the challenge for any president, for any administration, is how quickly they can learn from their mistakes. bill clinton was a president who in '93 and '94 was knocked around. learned from those political mistakes and began working with the new republican majority. he left office with a 60% plus approval rating. you can say the same for ronald reagan who had a terrible first two years and won 49 out of 50 states in his re-election. katty this is still fairly early
5:08 am
for joe biden. you look at what's happened on the international stage, a mistake in afghanistan. miscommunication and domestic blunder with our close and dear french allies. that seems to be a rift healing as well. what do they learn from mistakes made the last six to nine months and president xi not being at the g20 does that not provide joe biden some extra space to work harder at mending fences? and to have the stage to imself instead of sharing it with president xi? >> i think that's important. xi and putin not there and not in glasgow next week either. this is an area increasingly the whole area of climate change is
5:09 am
one of economic and strategic competition. not having xi in glasgow is a disappointing thing. climate change activists buy in how much can you really change? but it is an opportunity, you're right, for joe biden to be the global superpower, the unfettered global superpower without the dpetician of president xi jinping breathing down his neck. he's not there and that's probably a loss for china and a win for this administration. >> jonathan lemire as we look at a shot at vatican city at 2:09 p.m., the president having a successful meeting with the pope. they have a great relationship. we hear macron is waiting for the biden meeting and we suspect there will be success there, too. again, just because there is an
5:10 am
affinity for joe biden despite the blunders that have happened in the past. and as he moves from vatican city to the g20, again, i'm curious what the white house thinks about the fact he's going to be able to have the stage to himself with our allies without president xi or vladimir putin there. >> joe, looking at these pictures, i wish i were on this trip. it looks gorgeous there in rome. i missed out on this one. the white house, look, they hoped president xi would be there. they recognize the u.s./china relationship is a defining one for probably the next century and they feel like after the tumult of the trump years and then, of course, everything that came with the pandemic, that president biden wants to make a first step to try to settle relations with the other superpower. president xi has not left china
5:11 am
in more than two years. has not stepped foot outside its borders as the country deals with the virus and it's not clear when that would change. there are hopes they would meet here at the g20. it could be next year, perhaps somewhere else in europe. that's going to be an important moment akin to what we saw when president biden met this past summer. there is an opportunity for biden who is mostly popular with his foreign con temp contemperaries. is biden the aberration or was trump the aberration. we won't know that until 2024 at least. on climate change hope even if the president comes there without meaningful legislation in hand that he will strike a
5:12 am
tone that other nations can follow and hopefully then white house aides say in short order after he returns to the united states they can get this legislation done. >> let's turn to the latest with covid-19 where new coronavirus cases plummet nationwide. the united states is now averaging roughly 70,000 new cases per day. that's a 20% drop the past two weeks. >> great news. >> the number of people dying from the virus is still high. about 1,400 each day. but represents a 15% drop over the same period. that number has steadily decreased throughout the fall. that is good news. >> and you can certainly see the spikes. you see the spikes, the terrible spike in january and february of this year and you see how low it dropped in july. and then, of course, there's the delta variant. infections are going down.
5:13 am
that's usually an indicator of hospital icu visits going down and covid deaths going down. let's hope that line continues down to where it was in july. make a big difference in the health of americans, in hospitals' ability to deliver the services they need delivered day in and day out and, of course, it will help small businesses, family restaurants and the economy. >> vaccination mandate battles ramp up, though, nationwide the new york city is bracing for shortages of police officers and firefighters with the vaccine mandate set to take effect on monday. union officials say as many as a fifth of the city's firehouses could close. the mandate set by mayor bill de blasio required city workers to get at least one vaccine shot or be placed on unpaid leave. right now 74% have been
5:14 am
vaccinated. that is 65% amongst firefighters. >> bill bratton, mr. commissioner, thank you for being with us. let me just ask you, would you want a cop working with you that refused to take the vaccine, refused to follow the mandate? >> i don't know why there's such resistance to it. i've worked with cops for 50 years. i was a cop. resistance is real and you have to accept that reality. >> how would you resolve it? >> just the way the commissioner is doing it. right now about 7,000 police officers who have filed for an exemption for the mandate. they will have to have a hearing, each and every one, and
5:15 am
that will take some time. in the meantime, because they have filed for an exemption, they do not have to take the shot. what they do have to do is each week test for covid. right off the bat 7,000 of the resistance to the nypd who continue to work over the next weeks and months as their cases are reviewed. this crisis has been played up by the unions, by the new york folks. my prediction is come monday it will be business as usual and the nypd, my sense is the fire department and sanitation will also respond in a similar way. today is the last day they can get a $500 bonus to come in and get the shot. i think that incentive will bring hundreds if not thousands in for the shot. as of this morning it's 80% of new york city police officers who have had the vaccination shots. so let's take a step back and
5:16 am
this crisis has been blown way out of proportion in new york. >> what would you say having been through an extraordinarily difficult year, who have been vilified too often in the media, gross generalizations that suggest the majority of cops are bad instead of what the real truth is that it's a small number of cops who are bad? with a would you say to them after going through all they've gone through the past year and a half and then refusing to get a vaccine when the leading cause of death among police officers is covid? >> you've hit the nail on the head. policing has been in crisis where police have been under relentless attacks from politicians, district attorneys, the public, the media. 7,800 new york city police
5:17 am
officers came down with the virus. despite that terrible number they continue to deliver services, try to deliver safety. some of the resistance, i think, is basically just part of the overall frustration at the moment with the lack of support for them. the good news is the mandates seem to work. everything i read in the papers is when mandates are put into place, people respond. so far i'm not aware after single court case in the country that has not been supportive of mandates and this will probably end up in the courts for the final resolution. part of this resistance is cops in general feeling beat up every way, shape and form and here is another way of going after them. commissioner, jonathan lemire. good to see you again. you believe business as usual as of monday.
5:18 am
this controversy comes in the backdrop of crime going up, shootings and so on, as well as nationally. some cities like philadelphia and baltimore, chicago, really under siege with rising violence, particularly gun violence. give us your assessment where things stand right now. the state of crime, particularly violent crime in the united states and what can be done about it? >> we're in tough shape. the largest rise since the 1960s throughout the country. most major cities are experiencing tremendous increases in murders and shootings. and new york city is no exception although new york has been having some success knocking those numbers down. you can blame our politicians.
5:19 am
reforms that went too far too fast. i attended a conference of mayors yesterday and those mayors are all seeking reform of the reforms as the bail reforms in that state and certainly new york city are not allowing judges to basically hold people on bail who are dangers to society and looking for reforms in the reforms who deal with people arrested for gun crime. the district attorney of salt lake said anyone will bear the brunt of the full force of the law against them so we're starting to see the tide change what to do about crime in this country. >> mr. commissioner, i've heard from so many people who -- and police officers, and i will say residents of new york over the past year, who have been so
5:20 am
frustrated by the fact that somebody commits a crime with a gun and there's a revolving door. they're back out on the street the same day. if that is reform, i'm against it. it's absolutely ridiculous. isn't it fascinating all of these reforms took place when crime was at a 50-year low, when people felt like they had the luxury of actually believing that the actual nature of law enforcement and crime and punishment had forever changed? we found out that was a terrible gamble especially with people in the most disadvantaged neighborhoods in the bronx, in brooklyn, in queens, and across
5:21 am
new york city. >> don't get me started. in 2018 we had one of the best crime years in the last 50 years, homicides down. prison population's down dramatically. the state prison population down almost 50%. police controlled crime to such an extent, we had changed the city. it was an all-time lows and then in the space of a year and a half, the legislature in albany, new york, turned the world upside-down. this was a year before coronavirus, which they want to blame coronavirus for everything in a rise. the criminal justice system collapsed in new york and many other places during the coronavirus, but the crime rates were going up dramatically, immediately in the year following the criminal justice reform efforts. we need to try to find common ground because it is a growing crises.
5:22 am
>> the former new york city police commissioner bill bratton, thank you very much for joining us today. his recent book is entitled "the profession: a memoir of community, race and the arc of policing." >> an important book. >> we want to talk more about the legal battles over vaccine mandates and a number of other legal store jis we've been grappling with. former prosecutor charles coleman and associate professor at fordham law school. thank you very much all of you for being on the show with us this morning. >> so, dave, i want to start with you. breaking news across my phone from "the new york post" and i must say my life has been so much more interesting since i
5:23 am
started getting the notifications of "new york post" breaking news. i found out david lee roth has retired from music. that was a big day. that stopped everything in its tracks. i just got breaking news from "the new york post" that said the armerer, has no idea where live rounds came from but blames her bosses for the deadly accident. you have the armorer blaming her. can you read the quote? >> so the armorer on the set of the movie set "rust" has no idea why there was live ammunition at the scene. and this is a statement from her lawyers and this is the armorer, hannah gutierrez. this set would have never been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from. hannah and the prop master
5:24 am
gained control over the guns and she never witnessed anyone witness live rounds nor would she permit that. they were locked up every night. there's no way a single one was unaccounted for or shot by crew members. hannah was hired on two positions on this film which made it extremely difficult to focus on her job as an armorer. she fought for training, to maintain weapons and proper time to prepare for gunfire but was ultimately overruled by production and her department. the whole production set became unsafe due to various factors including lack of safety meetings. investigations into the events surrounding the shooting that killed halyna hutchins and injured director joel souza are ongoing.
5:25 am
>> but wait, there's more. >> actor alec baldwin shared two articles that discuss safety violations on set such as the gun not being correctly checked before being handed to him. >> all right. >> a lot of shifting of blame. >> you have the armorer blaming the producers. you have the producer, alec baldwin, blaming the armorer or the assistant director. a lot of finger pointing going on. it's almost as if they suddenly understand just how much trouble they may be in civilly and criminally. >> now you see, joe, why everyone is getting sued here. prosecutors will have to prove something beyond negligence beyond a reasonable doubt, talking about recklessness. there's nothing in the statement made by the armorer that would dissuade prosecutors from investigating her for
5:26 am
involuntary manslaughter. no one has been accusing her of acting intentionally here. it's more of an unintentional killing based on a reckless disregard for others and what she is describing is a set that is out of control. so you can count with 100% certainty there will be civil lawsuits all over the place. the plaintiffs would only need to sue for basic negligence that they violated a duty of care on the set. and alec baldwin as a producer, as part of management, will be part of that lawsuit as a defendant. as far as criminal charges, joe, think back to 1983 when brandon lee was killed on "the crow" under similar circumstances. the district attorney back then did a five-month investigation but ultimately filed no criminal charges because these are hard to do and there were civil lawsuits filed. i suspect unless we know more that's where this is headed. watch out. everyone is talking and they're
5:27 am
pointing fingers at each other. >> yeah, it's rough. and then this, former new york governor andrew cuomo has been charged after allegedly groping a female aide inside the executive mansion. according to a misdemeanor criminal complaint filed yesterday in albany, cuomo is directed to appear in court on november 17 to be arraigned on a charge of forcible touching. the alleged interaction occurred on december 7 of last year. the complaint says. the court documents don't name the woman involved. she accused of him groping her under the shirt in the residents about that time. so the albany times union, this is sources who tell "the albany times union" the summons was issued without her or her attorney's knowledge.
5:28 am
albany county's district attorney was also not informed about the filing. the three-term governor's attorney issued a denial saying cuomo has never assaulted anyone and the albany sheriff's motives are improper. the statement adds this is not professional law enforcement, this is politics. >> so, zephyr, yesterday a lot of chaos surrounding this story. the story broke. "the new york times" linked to albany paper who had said it was filed prematurely and about four or five hours where it looked like the complaint had been withdrawn. can you help break down exactly what happened yesterday? >> well, look, the important thing is a complaint has been filed and this is after this extraordinary, powerful, damning report that came out this summer
5:29 am
involving over 165 pages, thousands of documents, a very deeply researched report by independent investigators who found that andrew cuomo had assaulted one woman and harassed 11 and had a culture of retaliation, bullying and abuse at his office this is a moment in this really revealing who andrew cuomo has been for a long time, using his office for personal gain. it's part of a piece of andrew cuomo's cover-up of the nursing home numbers where he lied and lied about why he lied about nursing home deaths. it's part of a piece of andrew cuomo's -- >> zephyr, can i just jump in here? i need to understand what happened yesterday.
5:30 am
i feel like you're building a big case when you're going into a lot of different topics and i understand you're running for attorney general of new york. i want to understand what happened yesterday, and is that normal? >> i will defer to the d.a. on the procedural elements. i read "the times" story and i think we'll learn more over the coming days about the particulars of this filing. it looks like the facts are based on the same facts that came out this summer. >> so, charles, talk about this misdemeanor, is it unusual for it to be filed this way? is it unusual -- >> it's kind of -- >> the d.a., we didn't know this was being filed. the sheriff's department, we didn't know this was being filed, went ahead and in order forward with it being filed. how difficult to make a case
5:31 am
against andrew cuomo or anyone based on conflicting statements about what happened in his office? it seems to me those are the type of cases that prosecutors tell me they are really afraid to bring -- >> be careful about. >> you end up making the person accused look innocent in the end. >> i do think this is a bizarre set of events in terms of how this case came to be filed. one of the likely reasons why that is because of who cuomo is and where he's positioned. in terms of the fact it was leaked early, that's also very unusual. it's not something that you would have happen in most cases. it could have been a clerical error that ended up happening in this instance. with regard to the actual case itself, it's important to understand that at the end of the day, it is a misdemeanor charge.
5:32 am
it is more bark than bite. it will come down to a mat earp of credibility, if this case goes goes forward in trial, which i doubt, it will be a matter of the victim's worpd against the word of governor cuomo. what we have seen through the complaint and the investigation they have lined up the time lines to say they were in the same place at the same time. we have receipts, we have text messages, we know the victim's account in terms of corroborating the fact that they were present in this space, and it could have happened, we know that's all lined up. so it's one of those things cuomo will really have to deny that actual incident in the moment, but it's important that viewers understand ultimately, even if convicted, even if he were to take a plea, he is not going to spend a single day in jail for this. this is going to be a contemplation of dismissal with a full order of protection at
5:33 am
worst. this is not going to result in andrew cuomo spending time behind bars even if he is convicted, which, as you've already pointed out, is an uphill battle because it will come down essentially to his credibility versus the word of his accuser with something that may not be able to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. >> right. >> and which leads to the next question, good luck proving that beyond a reasonable doubt if you have two people who say two different things. let me just ask you, you go to conferences with prosecutors all the time. you obviously know all the active prosecutors in the state of florida. would those prosecutors bring a misdemeanor charge like this against someone named andrew smith? if his name were not andrew cuomo, would a prosecutor bring this case?
5:34 am
>> joe, we prosecutors are supposed to be blind to those before us. >> but they aren't. let me just ask you, if you had this case before you -- not you -- but let's say your friends across the state of florida had this case before you and the alleged -- the alleged defendant were a -- his name was andrew smith and he was an accountant or a truck driver, would that case normally be brought? >> it depends on the evidence, joe. now, see, when police file a criminal charge, it's based on probable cause, which is a lower burden than prosecutors. we have to file formal charges. if we believe we can get a conviction beyond any reasonable doubt and, really, the prosecutors i know -- >> let's talk about the facts in the case. based on the facts you know in this case.
5:35 am
you say it's based -- so you have the facts, you have somebody saying he did it. he's saying he didn't do it. behind closed doors, no witnesses. is there any other evidence out there? i heard text messages. any other evidence out there that would lead a prosecutor to bring this case if the person were an accountant or a truck driver? >> charles set it out where there are some statements the victim made to others around the same time. now there are hear say restrictions that could keep it out. it depends on the timing. plus, there are documents that show the two of them together at the time. you are right it is tough for prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this happened. >> i've been hearing this for a couple years now. are you now saying that if somebody just says something to their friend because this has been the new standard -- if somebody said something to a friend then the person is guilty. is that the new standard here?
5:36 am
if she said something to a friend, then you bring a case against them? obviously if that's the new rule, it's pretty easy for any of us to set up anybody or anything. >> prosecutors look at all the evidence and contemporaneous statements provide some evidence but probably not enough to file the charges. i think it is telling that the police here filed the charges and not the prosecutor. the prosecutor even came out and said we didn't know what was going on here. we are surprised by this. and that's telling because it shows that the d.a.'s office is probably not onboard with this yet, and that could mean that these charges will not be formally filed by the november 17 deadline because ultimately it is up to the district attorney to file the formal charges or else the case goes away. >> interesting topic. we'll be coming back to a lot of good debates here to have. we want to move now to facebook. actually, zephyr teachout, you
5:37 am
have an article in "the atlantic" on using antitrust laws against perhaps the tech giant. antitrust needs to be simple. what do you mean? >> look, right now we clearly have a monopoly problem with facebook. if you look at the facebook papers, it's just this really depressing story of mark zuckerberg controlling enormous parts of our public discourse, making bad decisions, overruling his own employees. instead, we should have instagram and facebook and whatsapp, dozens of social media companies. so what the article is about is how we got here so that we're not in a situation going forward. basically starting in the '70s judges overruled precedent and made it really hard to win antitrust cases. so cutting through all the details, what we need to do is
5:38 am
treat antitrust more like other business torts. here is what's a violation. here's how you prove it. and make it much easier for enforcers to stop any company from getting in the kind of situation that facebook is now or any of the other big monopolies in other areas of our economy. >> and, zephyr, there are monopolies whether you look at amazon, look at facebook, you look at microsoft. it's a monopoly of sorts. you look at so many of these tech companies, it seems that antitrust -- the antitrust laws, and like you said, the changes made in the early '70s have failed miserably to stop modern day robber barons. >> and now they're kind of operating in unregulated space. i mean, you see the incredible damage facebook has caused with
5:39 am
its business model, which has been so harmful for teenagers, for all of us, a business model that amplifies the most toxic material. and they've kind of been operating outside of law. so one of the reasons we needite that when scandals like this happen, you've got somewhere else to go. right? so the businesses that advertise with facebook don't feel like, well, we have to stay here. but oh, i can go to a less tox i can toxic social media company. >> would you like to jump from criminal law to antitrust law? >> no, joe, i chose my profession very wisely because, as zephyr has pointed out, making antitrust simple is not an easy task. so i'm fine right over here as a former prosecutor and civil rights attorney. >> i have to tell you, there are some criminal issues here, too. i think one of the reasons
5:40 am
zuckerberg is doing this fancy dance, renaming it meta, is because, look at criminal fraud. what about dumping his stock? there are things that will start to bubble. >> associate professor at fordham law school and former prosecutor charles coleman, thank you both. and our thanks to state attorney for palm beach county dave aronberg as well. so nbc news reports the house select committee investigating the january 6 attack of the capitol expects to subpoena attorney john eastman, author of the memo outlining an unconstitutional way for former vice president mike pence to reject the electoral college count. eastman spoke at a rally -- at the rally preceding the riot on what pence needed to do.
5:41 am
meanwhile, the former director of strategic communications who resigned from the trump white house in december of 2020 has been voluntarily speaking with the republicans on the january 6 committee for a few months, according to a source. the select committee has postponed today's deadline for former justice department official jeffrey clark to appear before it. the panel reportedly made the decision yesterday after it was informed that clark's attorney had dropped his representation. clark was an assistant attorney general in the trump administration who is believed to have strongly supported the former president's false claims of massive voter fraud in the 2020 election. let's bring in "new york times" reporter and msnbc national security analyst michael schmidt. go ahead. >> thanks for being with us. mika reads these stories, we
5:42 am
look at what's going on, follow what's going on, and it is safe to say we have never dealt with such characters at least since the civil war. richard nixon and the people surrounding him were trying to cover up a break-in, were tapping other people's phones. these people that we're talking about actually were trying to overturn american democracy, trying to wipe clean from the record a presidential election that 150 million americans voted in. what is the progress in this investigation, and what's the progress being made on these january 6th defendants? >> it's an interesting development about what you're saying about eastman and jeffrey clark and the attempts to get them in and that clark's lawyer had dropped him. i have been talking to a few people who had been in contact
5:43 am
with these witnesses at this point, and did not want to represent them. and that's something that has slowed this down here, that these people, like eastman, are so politically toxic that lawyers do not want to attach their name to them. and as we know with lawyers, there's often not a lot of chain there and they will represent the most guilty, the people who have committed the most grisly crimes, but in this case, the attempting overthrowing of democracy is something that has kept a lot of these people away from them. they don't want to be associated with them, to have to walk through the halls of congress, be photographed with them, seen taking them in to their depositions. and that is just one small part of the complications that this committee is wrestling with as it tries with different tentacles, different buckets what happened around january 6th, the leadup to january 6th,
5:44 am
the aftermath of the election and trying to make sense of that. and doing that essentially on their own, not linked hands with many republicans. only a few. so this is going to take a lot of time. and i think this will take more time than people think. >> michael, jonathan lemire. let's talk about eastman and the subpoena. do we have a sense of his response and what will happen next with him in terms of a time line? and where the select committee might next be looking, bannon and scavino and so on, widening their net clearly and talking to others like former trump aides like the communications director. who else are they looking to speak to in the coming days and weeks? >> so in my reporting i do not have a sense of how eastman will respond to this in the coming days. what i do know from my own discussions with eastman and from reading the accounts of
5:45 am
others who have spoken to him is that eastman has been fairly open to talk about this. he got on the phone with us and wanted to talk through what he had done and some of the council. he said to me that his client, the president of the united states at the time, donald trump, had given him permission to talk about this. now i'm not sure whether eastman will turn around to congress and claim some sort of privilege that would prevent him from talking about this. he did tell me trump okayed him to talk and that is why he talk. we used his open statements in a story we wrote because his role was so important. and the different advice revealed in the book to paint this larger picture. eastman seemed to me from
5:46 am
talking to him to believe his story exonerated him or, you know, cast him in a better light than he had been cast otherwise. i will leave that up to the readers to decide, but he is someone that has not necessarily shied away and got on trump's radar because he saw him on a show on fox news. that is how he came into donald trump's orbit. >> michael schmidt of "the new york times," thank you very much for your reporting. one other related story, a trump-appointed federal judge has rejected a request from two capital insurrectionists to be sentenced via video. judge trevor mcfadden took issue with two defendants, for requesting to be sentenced over video claiming that traveling to washington, d.c., would represent a financial burden.
5:47 am
judge mcfadden wrote in part defendants found the means to travel to washington, d.c., to commit the crime to which they have pled guilty. defendants can therefore find the means to return to washington, d.c., to be held accountable for this crime. >> that burns. >> one misdemeanor count each of entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds. yeah, that's accountability. still ahead, president biden is making his way through europe ahead of the g20 summit, a meeting of world leaders likened to political speed dating. fiona hill joins the conversation and you can hear the latest news and updates from us and all of your favorite msnbc shows anytime, anywhere on any device with tune in.
5:48 am
go to to listen to commercial free news. should all our it move to the cloud? well, it isn't right for everything. the cloud would give us more flexibility, but we lose control. should we stay, should we go? ♪ ♪ ♪ darling you got to let me know, ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ we have tons of data at the edge, but we have to act on it in real time. ♪ if i go there will be trouble ♪ and we need business insights across all our data silos, but how? ♪ so come on and let me know, ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i ♪ wait, we can stay and go. hpe greenlake is the platform that brings the cloud to us. and it'll accelerate our... our digital transformation?
5:49 am
absolutely. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ ♪
5:50 am
moving is a handful. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ no kidding! fortunately, xfinity makes moving easy. easy? -easy? switch your xfinity services to your new address online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers at
5:51 am
joe." a look at new york city. ten minutes till 9:00. if you have to be to work at 9:00 and you're 20 minutes away from work, you might as well stay and listen to the end of the show because you're going to be late anyway. joining us now, dr. hill. she served as a top adviser at the white house helping prepare several officials. her recent book is titled, "there is nothing for you here: finding opportunity in the 21st century. fiona, thank you so much for being with us. you have said so much of what
5:52 am
joe biden is doing today, it's pretty much political speed dating. he's been doing that for about 40 years. he may be more adept at it than others. explain that and how in the world you prepare for a conference like this. >> what i mean by this, he has to come in to a number of enormous by lat ram meetings. the g20, obviously that's a large number of people you're going to meet with. some of those meetings will be difficult. he's going to have a meeting with emmanuel macron, the president of france. we just had a spat with france over submarines and a different relationship with australia and the united kingdom. that might not be the most pleasant of dates initially until he gets that figured out. but basically the president has to move around in a short period of time. he has a long agenda. all the preparation is done in advance by his staff, by other
5:53 am
senior officials who try to cover the whole gamut of economic and security issues so that he can maximize the time. but it's a tricky thing. when you think about the entourage he has to take with him, everyone having to fan out and get this going. a highly orchestrated, highly complex venture there. >> i would guess also, dr. hill, if you try to cover everything, you end up covering nothing. >> exactly. >> how do you prioritize? do you go to the g20 and say, okay, we've got problems with france? we can't go back until we get that fixed. we've got problems with china. how do you prioritize those things going into a g20, and if you were advising the president, what would be the two things you'd want him to bring back with him when he comes back to the u.s.? >> well, look. the critical thing is that the g20 is preceding this huge
5:54 am
meeting on climate in glasgow, cop26. we've heard a lot about the climate agenda. this is pretty critical for president biden. so the big thing is that he's got to move beyond the other items on the agenda, especially stabilizing the relationship with france in a diplomatic sense, you know, somehow finding his way past the impasse we've had on the more security-related issues so we can all get onto the same page about the efforts this we're going to undertake collectively for climate change. this is why on the domestic front it's been so important for president biden to show to the recent congressional action on the bills that have been going through that will affect the climate issues, the build back better bill, not just the infrastructure bill. so the main focus is really preparing the way for actions on the climate agenda as well as on the pandemic overall. and one key issue here with this
5:55 am
g20 is vladimir putin and china's president is not there. putin is dealing with a massive covid crisis at home. that issue has not got away on the open scene. >> it's katty kay here. how mump do you think from this meeting do we get a sense of the difference between the trump administration and the biden administration in practical terms, in real terms, in their treatment of some of these more autocratic countries? >> well, i mean part of the problem there is going to be how we press a agenda of concerns with those countries just as you're pointing out, katty. and at the same time, how can we find a way forward on issues related to collective action? i think that's going to be very tricky. in my experience when we met with president erdogan of turkey, for example, he was very
5:56 am
narrowly focused on his own personal ageda and the problems he had at home. he wasn't particularly interested in doing something in the global arena. of course, when it comes to brazil, for example, we really need the brazilians on our side in terms of climate change. we've got all these concerns about what's happening in the amazon, the burning down of the forests. brazil is one of the gatekeepers to a different climate future here. so we're going to have to find a way of getting through these other items on their individual agendas and trying to promote collective action. i think that's going to have to come down to how president biden presents the domestic ada at home. we have problems here we're clearly grappling with. we're trying to step up into the international arena. can he set a tone in the way he interacts with them and can he show leadership and collective action on the u.s. side too. >> dr. hill, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. you were, of course, with president trump in helsinki when he met with president putin.
5:57 am
you know what it's like to be close to two heavyweights when they meet. you mentioned xi jinping is not going to be present. is this in your assessment a disappointment for president biden who's been looking forward to having that one-on-one conversation with him or is the opportunity there for him with xi not there? >> i think it's a bit of both. it's obviously disappointing not to have that meeting. in many respects, at the g20, it's difficult to get all of the leaders there because at times it coincides with important items on their own agenda or with covid, as with the case of putin, it's a good idea not to leave the scene. it's an opportunity for the u.s. to show some leadership that can be built upon later. so many of the issues that we see at the g20 can be then
5:58 am
conducted or brought forward in different formats. so i think the critical issue is what will biden do next? what will the team around bide don next? what other meetings can they set up going around the g20 and glass glow with xi and with the chinese because clearly we need to bring them on board with climate change to make any kind of progress. >> dr. fiona hill, thank you very much for being with us. we really appreciate it. hope you have a great weekend. and, of course, your book, "there's nothing for you here: finding opportunity in the 21st century," a must-read for our audience. we appreciate your time. and, katty kay, final thoughts. i usually say thank you for your time, and then i keep going so there's not that awkward delay. this time i said thank you for your time and she sat there like a real pro and didn't say
5:59 am
anything. good on her. katty, final thoughts for the weekend. what have you got? >> i'm not going to say anything. >> oh, come on. >> look. we've gone from where national politics is -- local politics is national politics, but national politics is also global politics, right? president biden is going off to europe to talk to the g20 about all of these complicated international issues. and you know what they'll all be watching is what's happening on capitol hill and how much wind he has behind his back and how much he can get things done. at the moment, it doesn't look great for him. >> no doubt. jonathan lemire. >> we heard from president biden earlier today say what happens this week is mostly on the domestic front -- and, sure, the international point -- but it will define things. let's take him at his word. the stakes are extraordinarily high for the president and his party as we head into this weekend, a halloween weekend, joe, which leads me to my
6:00 am
question to you. what's your costume? >> joe manchin? i don't know. i don't know. i may dress up as the big reconciliation bill like i'm just a bill and i'll walk through the neighborhood singing "schoolhouse rock!." >> such a bad question. >> thank you, guys, so much for watching. we greatly appreciate it. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪ hi, there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it's friday, october 29th, and there's so much news happening right now, and we've got the facts you need to know, so let's get smarter. as we speak, president biden in italy, vatican city, to be exact, where he met with the pope early this morning. he's also meeting with italy's


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on