tv Craig Melvin Reports MSNBC October 27, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PDT
the trial for kyle riten house. he doesn't want the lawyers using the term victims when talking about the victims in the shooting. the terms acceptable to the judge? rioters and looters. that's ahead. plus the spending bill lawmakers have spent so much time on, and right now still no deal. speaker pelosi aimed for a vote today on infrastructure based on an agreement on a deal. but senators manchin and sinema still have their sticking points. here's what senator manchin said just in the last 30 minutes. >> we're not doing everything today. we're not going to have a complete list. the senate is going to take time. you think it's going to happen today in the senate. we're trying to agree to a framework and the president has been clear. he'll go over to the house and he'll basically explain to the house that i have a framework, but there's still a lot of work to be done, and we're going to have something happen.
the president has done everything he can to make it happen. he's trying to meet everybody halfway. he's given everything he has to this. people have to respect that. >> i want to dig deeper into the spending bill negotiations. let's talk about some of the big hurdles that democrats need to jump over to get a deal involving who else? senators manchin and sinema. now, things are always fluid, but as of now, our capitol hill team reports it this way. senator manchin's hangups are mostly what to spend the money on specifically. he doesn't like spending so much on paid family leave. on medicare vouchers, on medicaid expansion, and climate. that's another big issue for him. senator sinema's big focus is on how democrats plan to pay for the stuff that ends up in the bill, the spending. her sticking points are over income surtax on the wealthy, negotiating prescription drug prices and a billionaire income
tax. democrats released a plan that would cover the last point. we're going to dig into that in moments. stephanie ruhle is here to tell us about it, but right now here's the key question. how do you bring two opposing viewpoints together with the clock ticking? remember, president biden is heading to europe tomorrow, and that was what looked like the key deadline. nbc has more from capitol hill. monica alba is at the white house. i want to bring in nbc news senior business correspondent stephanie ruhle. great to have you all here. ali, speaker pelosi was hopeful about a vote on infrastructure today, if there was a spending bill deal. clearly we don't have that yet. i just ticked through some of the sticking points. not a short list. take us through where talks stand this hour and what we know about a possible vote. >> not a short list of sticking points, and also, you're talking about what makes up a framework at this point. there is debate over on the house side, as i was bouncing
between gaggles yesterday with speaker pelosi and a congresswoman who leads the progressive caucus over what is enough to get them to vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. there are members in the caucus who say they need more of a fleshed out plan from the senate before they want to move ahead on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. contrast that with the conversation i just had a few minutes ago with senator joe manchin a as he was walking away said he prays to god they vote on the bipartisan bill sooner rather than later. that's been his stance the whole time. when you consider the negotiations, you laid out the sticking points. on the one hand, there's a clearer picture of where the negotiations are than we have at any other point in the process. that's a good thing. it allows us to track where lawmakers are on this. at the same time, though, senator joe manchin was wishy washy on the proposals that are supposed to be the 11 th hour
fixes to allow the senate 20 move forward. things like the billionaire tax and the way they want to pay for it. but also it's speakingtous about things like paid leave as well as medicare and medicaid expansion. he's said he's concerned about adding to the programs when he already sees the existing ones as insolvent. he's been a little bit vague in terms of what he can support, and at this point in the negotiations when everything centers around someone like senator joe manchin, it's important to keep in mind where he stands and lawmakers in the building are trying to do in a that. the other thing that's important as we move forward and some lawmakers have cautioned this, specifically on the progressive side. they're willing to take as much time as they need to get this right. these are unofficial deadlines. that was true two weeks ago the last time we did this will they or won't they vote on the bipartisan bill? but it's true now. yes, it would be great for the president to be able to go overseas touting something legislatively and having the
wins of victory at his back. at the same time here in washington, they don't necessarily function on that timeline. this is going to be a big deal for democrats if and when they get it done regardless. that's what progressives are arguing as they try to take as much time as they can to get as many of their policy proposal bills as possible into this. >> let's talk about billionaire income taxes. the average american says okay, this makes sense. why is my secretary, why is -- why am i paying more taxes than jeff bezos. on the other hand, the complexities of it can be hard to understand. right? for normal people like me. and number two, there's a bit of skepticism about is there going to be a huge loophole that in the end it won't make any difference? tell us what you know and what we should know. >> okay. well, in theory, a tax on the megarich will get a huge amount of support. think about it. jeff bezos in 2009 was worth just under $7 billion. in 2021, $197 billion.
and across the board, you can talk to lawmakers from every state, they will argue we need to start having the megawealthy not have trusts so they can pay less taxes than the average american. in this case, they would look to tax billionaires based on their income. those who make $100 million or more. this gets to the loophole. that's not going to effect very many people. those people who have that kind of money, don't pay themselves very much in income, so they'll avoid it. what they've added to to tax them based on their assets. those worth over a billion dollars for at least the last three years, they would start getting taxed on that. the devil is going to be in the details. can they word this in a way that there won't be loopholes to go through? if they can, this could bring an thunderstorms amount of money. it's only about 700 people. the other thing they want to implement, and it's getting a lot of support. you've heard support from kyrsten sinema. a minimum corporate tax. so we're going around debating
should it be 21% or 25%, ignoring the fact that last year alone 5 5 major u.s. companies, you know what they paid? zero. companies you know. nike, sales force, fedex, nothing. this isn't about changing the tax code. it's putting in place a minimum tax of 15% and according to ron wyden at the very least next year, if they implemented that, that would be 3 00 to $400 billion. that's going to get a lot of support. >> a big chunk of the money they want for this bill. senators sinema and manchin were with the president at the white house on tuesday. the white house, however, as our white house unit put it, you and your colleagues is lowering expectations in that lowering expectations mode. there may be some meetings today. i know they're keeping the day open. potentially joe biden could delay his departure tomorrow, maybe buy some hours. what more can you tell us? >> all of that is on the table, chris. that's right.
last night that meeting with senators manchin and sinema came together rather quickly. it took place in the oval office after dark. after the president was already supposed to be leaving for that rally just across the river in virginia forrer thely mcauliffe. it even delayed his departure. it wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow there was a change to the schedule potentially. if they're still thinking they can get some kind of an agreement or framework at least agreed upon before he is wheels up for rome. the major question, chris, is what that's going to look like. is it going to be a top line number? is it going to be a fact sheet of this is where we think this is headed? all of that optimism about maybe we'll have votes before the president is in italy, that seems to have waned a little bit. i am told by white house officials here that they are keeping the door open for meetings with lawmakers. we know right now that white house officials are on the other end of pennsylvania avenue having critical meetings. so will the president be a part of those?
are more lawmakers going to come here this afternoon? that's certainly always possible. and even earlier today, one senior white house official indicated it was possible the president could go to capitol hill. we don't have any indication that's going to happen in the next few hours. but you never know. he doesn't have anything else on his schedule. and he is supposed to depart in the morning hours tomorrow. so it will be really notable if they do, indeed, push that back. but at a certain point this white house continues to argue that it's not so much about trying to have anything inked or done before he's actually at these summits in itly and scotland. they argue because world leaders are sophisticated enough to know the processes in washington can take a long time, but the important thing the president is going to make clear on the world stage is that his agenda wants to get these things passed. it just might be a matter of extending that time. the bigger challenge i think for this white house in the coming days is how the president is going to engage in the juggling act and how distracted he might be while he's overseas?
>> you could argue the world leaders are sophisticated enough to know this could blow up. nothing is guaranteed. thanks so all of you. we'll continue to follow this very closely. meantime, we're less than an hour away. we're finally going to hear for the first time from the santa fe sheriff's office after that deadly shooting on the set of the film "rust". it comes as the santa fe county district attorney tells "the new york times" she's not ruling out criminal charges. we learned federal workplace inve gators have begun interviewing the crew. the company has hired lawyers to conduct its own inquiry and be present as crew members are questioned. we are in santa fe ahead of the noon press conference. good to see you there. still, so much we don't know including what kind of ammo was in the gun. what do we expect potentially to hear at this press conference and what more do we know about where this investigation is headed? >> good to see you, too.
there's a lot of questions. no not a lot of answers at this point. a few things i want to tick through while i have you. you mentioned the district attorney saying nothing is off the table here. also going onto say this is going to be a long drawnout tedious investigation considering all the witnesses that were on that "rust" set. and then they decide whether or not they're going to file criminal or civil charges, if anything there. and then the two questions that they need answered. this is a ballistics investigation. so the question which is what you mentioned of whether or not there were live rounds in that gun, and then if so, why. and then there's the question of who is responsible? the culpability of it all. you talk about the assistant director. he's the one who handed the gun to actor alec baldwin, pulled a gun off of a cart that had three guns on it set up by the arm room. he pulled that gun off the cart, handed it to alec baldwin and called cold gun. ie, this gun is safe.
he learned he was fired from another set in 2019 because of negligence because of an injury onset that was not fatal, but yet, it was an injury. then there is the armor. her actions are being krut newsed onset. and then there's the culpability of alec baldwin himself. the actor rehearsing the scene when he pulled the gun, a cross draw at the camera, and then subsequently that gunfired, obviously, killing halyna hutchins. i want you to listen to the ceo of west coast trial lawyers. and she talks a bit about the culpability when it comes to specifically alec baldwin. >> well, he pulled the trigger, but for him to be charged, he would actually have to have knowledge that that prop gun was loaded with a live round. if he had no knowledge whatsoever, and if the assistant director told him that it was a cold gun, and, therefore, not loaded, i would not expect for
him to be charged. >> reporter: and so, chris, we learned from this affidavit that was released monday, as i mentioned earlier, and it's important i mention when he pulled the gun off the cart to hand to alec baldwin, he called cold gun on the set. and we learned alec baldwin was very careful in his handling of firearms leading up to this time period. we're going to try to piece the details together. get as many information as we can from the press conference happening in just under an hour. whatever we get, we'll bring it to you live right here on moikz. and to add further as you mentioned, an ongoing investigation along with the crew, the production crew hiring its own internal lawyers as well for an investigation. >> a lot of different tentacles to this investigation, but a key one we'll hear about today. thank you for being there. we appreciate it.
right now nearly half a million homes and businesses in massachusetts are in the dark after this week's nor'easter. it's become a bomb cyclone as of this morning. the storm forecast to deliver one last blast of brutal winds across the northeast. long island, new york could see 60 miles per hour gusts. cape cod already clocked at least one gust at 90 miles per hour. that's hurricane force. these damaging winds have brought down trees and power lines. knocking out power to hundreds of thousands. parts of the tristate area also got nearly 5 inches of rain. some places in new jersey saw a month's worth of rain in 24 hours. also much more or not wrangling over the democratic spending bills. i'll be talking with one democratic congresswoman who is insisting that universal paid leave stays in the plan. plus this morning we're a big step closer to getting covid vaccines for kids as young as 5 after that fda committee signed off. what happens next? we'll break it down for you.
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17 to 0. it goes to the rest of the fda for what's expected to be a final ruling by the end of the week. joining me now emergency medicine physician at colombia university medical center. i know today is your son charlie's 12th birthday. a big shoutout to him. that means he's eligible to get his first covid shot as well. i know your son is now going to plan to get vaccinated. how big a deal, how much of a step do you see this as not just for your son, but for younger kids who may be able to get the vaccine? >> so i think this is a really big deal. our children have watched us get vaccinated for the last year. we have told them for the last almost two years that we're here to keep them safe. they have masked up, listened to us, and now they're back in school full-time. they are now asking us to lead the way, and actually get them vaccinated so they can also be
safe when they go to school, when they go to sports. there are risks of spreading the virus, not just getting infected go down. it's an opportunity to bring them into the fold of the global protection we can provide to everybody in our community by making sure as many people as possible are vaccinated. >> so nbc news analyzed some cdc data. they found regional disparities when it comes to kids' vaccination rates similar to what we see in adults. for example, 81% of kids 12 to 17 have gotten at least one vaccine dose in vermont or overall dosage is high. in west virginia where far fewer people have been vaccinated, that rate is 35 %. we're heading into the holiday season. we know it was a big surge last year even though a lot of folks are vaccinated. people who aren't, people who are coming from areas where vaccination rates are low are going to be mingling in a way that we don't normally see outside the holidays.
how worry someis that? >> so it is a worry. it's a worry when adults don't get vaccinated. they may not get their children vaccinated. we know the variants and the spread of the virus, we want to see as many people get vaccinated as possible. and remember that the day you decide to get vaccinated is a great day. you know, it may take you a little longer than somebody else, but that's okay. we want to let everybody get vaccinated as soon as they're ready to increase that number globally and certainly domestically. >> there's a new study out. i know you're aware of it from the journal of the american medical association that looked at long covid and people who continue many months later to suffer from the effects, and it found that nearly two-thirds of long-term covid patients reported what we call that brain fog which includes memory loss, and it found nearly half of those so-called long haulers said they were not able to return to full employment. more than 45 million americans
have tested positive for covid over the course of this pandemic. so what do you make of these statistics and how much do we need still to learn about these long haulers? >> we need to learn so much. i think that the thing about covid not just as a new disease, but it's a new disease that seems like it's also leading to a new chronic illness. and this is why, again, vaccination is so important. because it's not just about who doesn't die from this virus, who doesn't get hospitalized. what are the consequences for someone's entire life? to reiterate about children, their lives, god willing, will be longer than the rest of ours, and their brains are being developed. we need to understand the risk to them of getting covid and having a symptom like this brain fog may effect their learning in school, their ability to go to college or their ability to hold down a job when they're an adult. this reiterates how important it is in prevention of the virus. we don't know of the consequences long term. >> we have new information from the former white house
coordinator. dr. birx, we were familiar with her at the beginning of the pandemic. she recently testified, and now "the washington post" is reporting she estimates more than 130,000 american lives could have been saved with swifter action. according to the post, birx said some officials were actively campaigning and not as present in the white house as previously. she went onto say the election year just took people's time away from and distracted them away from the pandemic. she did not name which officials she was talking about. she also said, quote, i believe if we had fully implemented mask mandates, the reduction in indoor dining and getting friends and family to understand the risk of gathering in private homes, and we'd increase testing, we probably could have decreased fatalities into the 30% less to 40% less range. what do you make of this
testimony? >> i think this testimony reinforces what many of us saw in realtime. the undermining of consistent public health messaging, even when it was hard for people to hear. it is always an election year here in america. the idea that that was a distraction from leadership is infuriating. we need to remember that public health in a pandemic needs to take precedence to keep people alive. and that it is not surprising to many of us that this has happened, that she saw this in realtime and that many lives were lost. i am grateful now under our new leadership we're seeing the ability of an administration to walk and chew gum, legislate and lead in a public health crisis. >> doctor, thank you so much. and 12th birthday today for your son, so happy birthday to him. >> thank you. meanwhile in brazil j, a senate committee is recommending a president face criminal indictments for his mishandling of the pandemic. they have the second highest
covid death toll with over 606,000 deaths just behind the u.s. the committee's 7 to 4 vote approves a vote that calls for him to be called for inciting crime, misusing funds and crimes against humanity. it's up to the prosecutor general, and we should note he is an appointee. paid family leave, dental care for seniors, new climate protections. these are some of the issues that could be on the chopping block as democrats continue haggling over the big spending bill. i'll talk to our michigan congresswoman about it next. con. tv: mount everest, the tallest mountain on the face of the earth. keep dreaming. [coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind]
what we're fighting for in these two bills, we've been at the table. while it's not a perfect ending, it is a lot of progress. >> members of the congressional black caucus an hour ago measured but positive tone on the spending bill negotiations and their priorities. joining me now is the vice chair of the congressional black caucus from michigan. she was part of the group of merricks who met with the president and vice president at the white house yesterday. good morning. great to have you here. you're a key person to talk to because you're part of the progressive caucus. i don't know if you know this because we just heard from senate majority leader chuck
schumer who said an agreement is, quote, within arm's length. they're hopeful they could have a framework by the end of the day today. we've heard similar things for a while now. are you as optimistic? >> i am. i am. and thank you so much, chris, and good morning to you. i'm very hopeful and optimistic. i met with the president. talking to the members of our caucus, i know clearly we have reached a point where everyone is not going to be happy. we've been making sausage now for a number of weeks. we are at the point where this can be transformational action on behalf of this country, getting our job done in congress. >> there are progressives who get frustrated. they say you have members of the senate, manchin and sinema from relatively small states representing a relatively small part of the overall u.s. electorate who are wielding a
disproportionate amount of power. as this goes forward, how frustrated are have you been? are you, and how confident are you that the final product is going to be something that you can live with? >> so one thing that i have been uniquely involved in as a co-chair of the women's caucus as a member of the black caucus, as a member of the progressive caucus, is getting to the point where we felt heard that we felt included. and that the issues that are important to -- i mean, i constantly quote the first lady abigail who told the president of the united states do not forget the ladies. this bill will be transformational for women. this bill will be transformational for lifting people out of poverty and taking care of our children. so the other thing that i know, just from life, is that you don't always get everything that you want at the one time.
but this will lay the platform, and begin the process of building our country back to a point where we don't have such a strong reliance on social programs that we're investing in making sure that our children get that step forward, a universal pre-k. we are a country that is in a global competition for our educated work force, and that's going to transform this country. >> look, due respect, and i know you know this. there are a lot of people who are very concerned about what they think is not going to be in this bill, and they don't agree that well, this is a first step. they think this may be the last best chance for a long time to get certain things and already medicare and medicaid benefits have been scaled back. it's unclear whether an expansion of medicare benefits would be included. the plan to make drugs more
affordable --. senior citizens say if it doesn't get done now, we don't see it getting done. you and your colleagues pushing for universal paid leave. that's looking more unlikely. are you saying you can live without those changes? >> i'm not saying that. i'm still fighting for them. i am still in the position all of those issues are important to us. but what i'm hearing from the negotiations, we already know. we have a top line. and so i can count, and i can do a budget. based on a top line, i'm pushing for issues to be included in this bill. i may not get the level that i initially wanted, and that's where i'm saying, i will not give up on these issues that are so important to this country. so important to women, to african americans, to our children. but i will say i will not walk away from an opportunity to start the process, to lay down a
framework, to build on these programs as we go forward. if you think about everything in our democracy, that's why we have so many amendments. we didn't always get it right the first time. but we have an opportunity to live, to fight another day. 42 about how the president feels about the community college. he lives with our first lady who is a staunch supporter of community college. he has his marching orders from the black caucus, from the women's caucus to continue to fight to improve on the foundation that i want to happen so that we can move this country forward. >> congresswoman, on a busy day on capitol hill. thank you. we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. >> thank you so much. 12k3w4r6r7b8g9s and coming up, the facebook algorithm. new reporting in the washington
post that says that like button may not be worth as much as you think. how angry reactions moved more content. but first, history today from the u.s. state department. it issued the first ever u.s. passport with the gender marked as x. the state department plans to offer the option to people who don't identify as male or female by next year. the u.s. special diplomatic envoy for lgbtq rights says allowing people to reflect their true identity will help them live with greater dignity and respect. respect. got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need.
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talking trump when making mcauliffe's case to voters. >> i ran against donald trump. and terry is running against an ak lite of donald trump. terry's opponent doesn't like to talk about how very much now, but to win the republican nomination, he embraced trump. katie is in virginia looking at a flash point in the case. this is a key county for terry mcauliffe, and how is it impacting the race for governor there? >> reporter: good morning. loudoun county schools has been a battle ground in recent months on many controversial issues. critical race theory, mask mandates and transgender bathroom policies have been argued here. last night over 130 parents came.
many were angry about how the school administration is handling a recent sexual assault case. back in may an alleged case happened when a male student wearing a skirt went into a bathroom and assaulted a female student and the male was transferred to another school within the county. months later, another sexual assault allegation against the same student surfaced. parents are saying this school administration covered up the incidents because they were so focussed on promoting a transgender bathroom policy. the superintendent has since apologized to both families and victims in this case. and he said that they did notify authorities immediately on the dates of both of those sexual assault incidents. that did little to diffuse the outrage last night. there are other parents in this district who say that a lot of this is coming from outside disrupters. this is creating chaos for political purpose. here's what the meeting sounded like last night. >> your single greatest priority
is to keep our kids safe. that an an abject failure, so you can resign now or wait to be recalled in disgrace. zblild describe it as -- i wouldn't say it's controlled chaos. i would describe it as created chaos. i think it's been created. it's not of its natural form. it did not come about naturally, i would say. >> now, six days before this big governor's race here in virginia, if you are watching tv, you are seeing the ads appear pretty consistently and pretty consistently on both sides. schools are the center point, talking about parental choice and what material schools can teach as well as policies like the bathroom one here. certainly coming up in campaign rallies and in ads. these candidates are really using this to try and stir up momentum in their races. >> katie beck, thank you so much for that. at one time or another we've all used the reaction "morning
joe"s at the bottom of each post on facebook. they include things like like and wow and angry reactions. but they may be more powerful than you know. a new report from the washington post is headlined, five points for anger. one for like. here's what the post writes. quote, facebook programmed the algorithm that decides what people see in their news feeds to use the reaction "morning joe"s as signals to push emotional and provocative content. incluing content likely to make them angry. they treated "morning joe" reactions as -- they treat. they say we continue to work to understand what content creates negative experiences so we can reduce the distribution. this includes content that has a disproportionate amount of angry
reactions, for example. a massive civil trial after charlottesville. how this proceeding could potentially give us hints about cases being built against the organizers of the january 6th riot. in a few minutes the first update from law enforcement since the deadly movie set shooting in new mexico. we'll take you there live at noon eastern. you can see the mics are set up and ready to go. up and ready to go. when you're driving a lincoln, stress seems to evaporate into thin air. which leaves us to wonder, where does it go? does it get tangled up in knots? or fall victim to gravity? or maybe it winds up somewhere over the bermuda triangle. perhaps you'll come up with your own theory of where the stress goes. behind the wheel of a lincoln is a mighty fine place to start. there is something i want to ask you. umm, it's a little soon... the new iphone 13 pro is here. what do you say, switch to t-mobile with me? yes! fall in love with iphone.
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but i'm coming for him. happy halloween michael. the violence that shocked the nation four years ago in charlottesville, virginia is now at the sen ore of a closely watched civil trial. opening statements are expected to begin in the case against the unite the rally. one person was killed. 35 others were hurt. plaintiffs swrired in the violence are suing about two dozen organizers. the suit alleges they conspired to commit racially motivated violence that injured peaceful counter protesters. key to this is the defendant's use of online activity, using a gaming site to plan the rally. the defendants say their messages were protected speech and any talk about violence dealt with the need to defend themselves if they were
attacked. ken dilanian is outside the federal courthouse in charlottesville. this trial could have big implications for how cases are tried. take us through what they're expected to hear in court. >> reporter: well, we all remember the man who drove his car into a crowd of people killing people and injuring others. he was sentenced to life in prison. and and four others were the only ones prosecuted criminally. in this case the people suing are going after those who organized this -- these protests and the real issue in this case is whether people who encourage violence online can be held responsible for the implications of those comments. and the plaintiffs in this case are going to bring in evidence in a gaming site called discord where some of the organizers were talking openly about violence, about cracking skulls, about driving vehicles into
crowds. and the defendants argue that what they said was protected by the first amendment. that they didn't actually mean for violence to happen. but it did happen. and the implications in this case go far beyond that courthouse behind me. as you far beyond that courthouse behind me. there are several lawsuits against trump, rudy giuliani, and others. so what happens in this case will have big implications for the question of whether or not people who have violence online, but are not prosecuted, can be held accountable. they're trying to put pressure on these defendants, and it has worked. richard spencer called the lawsuit financially crippling. you may not be prosecuted, but you will pay a price, chris.
>> ken delanian, thank you. what should you call the people that kyle rittenhouse is accused of killing. a judge says they cannot be called victims but it's okay to call them rioters and looters. how this could shape the trial, ahead. pe the trial, ahead. ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ and we need insights across our data silos, but how? ♪ if i go there will be trouble ♪ ♪ ♪ wait, we can stay and go. hpe greenlake is the platform that brings the cloud to us. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ ♪ find your rhythm. your happy place. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best
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fine, murderers? final, but there is one record that the judge in kyle rittenhouse's trial they don't want to use, and that is victims. 18-year-old rittenhouse faces homicide and attempted homicide charges for shooting three people last august. he said this was in self defense. i want to bring in david henderson, a former prosecutor and a cnbc contributor. i want to read exactly what judge bruce schroeder said. he said the word victim is a loaded word and i think alleged victim is a cousin to it. he asked them to use complaining witness or decedent. he says this is a long-standing policy for criminal trials, but he will allow the defense to
call the three people shot rioters and looters. what do you make of this decision? >> i have a rule for kyle rittenhouse. you can't call the people he hurt victims, and you can call them looters. there is no crime victim. the problem is he is allowing the defense to mislead the jury by calling them rioters, arsonists, and looters, because that doesn't give him the right to shoot them even if they were. >> how would it change your approach with the judge? >> kris, if i was a prosecutor, i would not care. you don't want to talk like a lawyer more than you absolutely
have to. they don't want to hear words like complaining witness, they are jjoseph, richard, and gge. why can't i call them by their names. >> understanding this is setting the stage for the tone of this trial. what are you expecting to watch when it starts on monday, and how does it affect, if at all, how you approach jury selection. >> i can't for the prosecution to be looking for a diverse jury. i expect at least two people of color. they are also going to look for people that carry firearms. with regard to the rulings that we discussed, objections about
people being referred to improperly. those terms should be used through all of the trial, but i expect them to use them much sooner including when they go to pick jurors. >> when you look at this case and you know this case, what would you expect it to turn on? >> i expect it to turn on whether or not people accept that kyle rittenhouse had the right to use deadly force when he felt his life was threatened. of all of the cases involving race, i think this is the hardest for the prosecution to work. >> dangerous how? >> because i think that people are simply too inclined to give weight to kyle rittenhouse when it comes to the facts in the case. they seem to favor the idea of allowing in fage showing people interacting with him.
it looks like the police endorsed him being out there. once he is legitimately out there, it is harder to argument when he thought he was encountering deadly force. those arguments are dangerous. >> david henderson, thank you. that will do it for me this hour, i'm kris jansing. we are expecting a news conference about the santa fe movie set shooting. we have a live look at the podium for you. we'll go there live when it happens,. good day, this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. we're moments away from a press
conference where we expect to hear more about a fatal movie set shooting involving alec baldwin. all of the details for the death of hutchins is on the table. the movie's assistant director, dave hall, said it was a cold gun holding no live rounds, beforehanding it to baldwin. was the prop firearm holding live bullets or blanks, and what was the situation. let's go in and listen to what they have to say about what kind of charging, if any, will be filed. they said everything is on the table, including the possibility of criminal