tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 25, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. okay that is going to do it for us tonight, we will see you again tomorrow. it's time for the last word with the great lawrence o'donnell. good evening. lawrence >> rachel i was listening intently to your elizabeth warren interview. especially at the end, because suddenly, from seemingly out of nowhere, elizabeth warren's wealth tax, tax on billionaires, is now, dead center in the negotiation action, on the legislation that's pending in the congress. >> that's exactly. right and senator sinema, even more so than senator manchin, has reportedly been focused on what the payment mechanisms are
going to be. and what the tax changes are going to be, that foot the cost for this bill, if senator warren and senator sinema are talking about, that in senator warren is here expounding on how a wealth tax, and a very limited number of the very richest people in corporations in the, countries would work to pay for it, and that those are very clear lights on the runway. >> the last time we heard about, it was way back in the presidential campaign, when elizabeth warren was still a candidate. it looks like coming into the biden administration, that that idea was gone, at least for this presidency, and would have to patiently waits, for the warren presidency or another presidency for it's a happen. but here we. are it could be happening next week for all we know. >> i think she has been patiently keeping that idea alive, and nurturing, in talking, about it she's raise
this and other interviews, it may be, we will see, it may be that senator sinema's sort of quick series of objections and silent holds on progress here, it may be harder for those of us outside the process, do you read what she might say yes to, then it is for senators to actually get to talk to her about these things. if senator warren is part of the conversation, about these, this is a big deal. because she got such a specific proposal along these lines. >> the best sign i've heard about whatever it, is that's going through senator sinema's minds, is that she was meeting with senator warren. that is very good news for america. >> exactly. exactly. because of elizabeth warren does one, thing it's a, plan and she will share, with you and if she has been sharing it with senator sinema, that's, news. >> thank you rachel. thank you. lawrence >> it was
infrastructure weekend. this weekend, with president joe biden, in the senate majority leader chuck, schumer insert joe manchin, at the presidents home in wilmington delaware on sunday morning, and with when those two senators were meeting with the president, the speaker of the house nancy pelosi said this. >> we have 90% of the bill agreed to enrich. and we just have some of the last decisions to be made. >> one of the last decisions to be made, includes, what rachel and i were just talking about. a last-minute rewriting, of one of the first decisions, that was made about the bidens social infrastructure bill. and that is how to pay for it. in this rewriting might be happening because one senator, kyrsten sinema is apparently opposed to increases in the top income tax rate. for personal income, taxes and increases in the corporate tax rate, that president biden proposed, and that the
democratic leadership is not working on. a whole new form of taxation. for billionaires only. it is a version of what senator elizabeth warren proposed, when she was a presidential candidate, the new york times reported this weekend that the new tax would be applied, to the assets of people who have a billion dollars or more, and who earn $100 million in income, three years in a row. that is or earn $100 million in come. three years in a row. you have a billion or you earn 100 million a year, three years in a row. you will be subject to this tax. that new billionaires tax, would be, much more complex, than the current personal income tax law is, and it could be, the single most complex tax law, ever written, by the staffs of the senate finance committee, and then could be, the irs's most difficult tax law to enforce.
this is not easy stuff. but it would be, the very first attempt, in the history of american taxation, to capture tax revenue, from the accumulated assets, of billionaires. senator joe manchin was asked about the billionaires tax policy today. >> senator where you on a wealth tax? do you support? that >> i support everyone paying their fair share of taxes and how you get to it. we all of a different approach to, that went as far as taxation, i think corporations should be paying it least a minimum if you own business in the united states. anyone that particular -- are you open to a billionaire's tax? >> i'm open to any type of thing that makes people pay, that's not paying, now people who don't report income like you and i do, earned income, there has to be a way for them to pay their fair share. >> president biden in the democratic leadership are hoping, for a publicly announced agreement among all democrats, and the basic
outline for a bill, before the president leaves, on thursday, to attend the united nations climate change conference in scotland. >> senator, what are the chances -- >> of having it finished with all the tees and eyes crossed indicted, that will be difficult from the senate, side we have an awful lot of things to go through, but it's towards conception, yes. >> leading off our discussion tonight is congressman gerry yarmouth of kentucky. he is the chairman of the house budget committee. thank you very much for joining us again, tonight we always appreciated. let's begin with the timing question, do you believe that an agreement on an overall framework, is possible, before the president leaves for scotland on thursday? >> yes lawrence thanks for having me on. i do believe it's possible. as you mentioned, the proposals, now for a billionaire's tax are
pretty complex, i think we can come to a conceptual agreement, but we know, when i prefer to think of is, this is not a tax bill. this is not something that we should focus on as a way to create equity in the tax code. those are noble objectives. what we're talking about here, is making for the first time, it least in my eight terms in congress, is a futuristic approach, to our society. this is a way to build a foundation, where every american can truly have, a chance at realizing the american dream. and have a real stake in the economy. that's with this is about. the offsets, whatever you want to talk, about to me that
secondary, this is about what we're really proposing to do for american people. >> let's concentrate on the secondary for a, moment it's one of the final pieces, as the speaker said, 90% of this is agreed, to what isn't agreed to yet because of senator sinema, is the pay for peace of, it which involves taxation. and so the chairman of the house ways and means committee, has already marked up as they, say written a bill in that committee, that does not include any of these concepts that are now being studied by senator warren, by ron wyden, chairman of the senate finance committee, that's a pretty dramatic last minute kind of change, to have to make. it sounded like chairman neill is extremely reluctant to do this. >> i talked to chairman neill. just yesterday. you're right, this is a new proposal, it kind of came out of the blue, this is never been
on the table in terms of a national discussion. again, it seems to be a little bit overreach, to try and do something that is probably undeniably popular, but not necessarily effective in actually paying for this. what we're probably trying to do here, is in essence, predicting the stock market, because if you have a jeff pesos, who has multi billions of dollars an amazon stop, and you're worried, you're planning to tax him and the appreciation of his stock, if the market goes down, then there's no revenue there. i'm not sure, we should think about this as an offset for the incredibly important investments that we're proposing to make. but more of a again, a tax equity issue. and i think we have to separate
those two. >> what would you say at this, point the democrats in the house believe, absolutely must be included in the final version of this bill? >> well, we'll have a little difference of opinion on that, i if i had to rank them, extending the child tax credit would probably be number one, or very close to the top. childcare is another one. we have a number of members who for the top priority, it's carrying the medicaid gap, for the dozen or so states that did not expand medicaid coverage, in the affordable care act, and then of course you have paid family a medical, leave which i think is something that, most every democrat is strongly in favor of, because we're the only country in the industrialized world that does not have that.
that's how i would rank them. i think certainly in terms of, in my personal opinion, early childhood education, three and four year old is the most important thing we can. due to guarantee that we have a workforce generations, from now, that is well educated in a strong foundation. i hope we don't lose sight of that as well. >> chairman, thank you very much for joining us once again, tonight we always appreciate it. >> thanks lawrence, and joining our discussion now, economist for the washington post, and eugene robinson so editor and pulitzer prize-winning novelist, and nbc political analyst, this is a kind of extraordinary developments on the pay for, side pardon me for being too excited about what the chairman calls the secondary part of the bill. but there is no bill without the pay force as everybody
knows. and so senator warren's idea, that seems as though is going to have to wait for some other era, is suddenly what's on the table. >> it seems to be lawrence, but is it really going to happen in three days? or it a week? a kind of taxation, in principle, to me it's a great idea, to make billionaires pay more in taxes. in one of the things we've seen, over the past 40 years, is this incredible accumulation of wealth at the top. in the diminution of wealth. throughout the middle in the bottom. in principle it's a good idea, elizabeth warren, as you and rachel, said if she has anything, she's got a plan. so i'm sure she has a carefully thought out plan, nonetheless,
the difficulty of trying to figure out exactly how this is supposed to, work exactly how this will be enforced, in a matter of a few days, strikes me as more than one the congressman called a bit of a stretch. >> the staff of the senate finance committee has a big head start, on it because chairman has been thinking about it himself, and toying with different plans. ways and means on the house side, there they are not ready for this, let's listen to what senator warren said to you rachel in the last hour. >> we have an opportunity right, now to do a billionaires tax, for yes jeff bezos i'm looking at, you these guys who declare $83,000 in income, and of course, control billions of dollars and assets. if we come in, and you a tax on the fewer than 700 billionaires we've got, and we do it based,
not on their income, we have to do it based on what they own, and we do a minimum corporate tax, we cannot only help fund a lot of that childcare and climate change fight that we need to fund, we can also help make the system a little fairer. >> aj, this could be the most popular tax proposal that the democrats have ever advanced. >> i think there are 700 billionaires in the country. so about 350 million to 700 is a big margin. 330 million. i think we should reflect for a moment on how politics is a strange and wondrous thing, here was senator sinema, opposing moderately progressive tax increases, and because she opposed those, we are getting one of the most extraordinarily progressive tax proposals, we have ever seen in the country. and i was also struck by joe
manchin clip you showed, where at least for one moment, the guy who is been mostly fighting people, on the left, sounded a bit like elizabeth warren, or bernie sanders, saying we should tax capital. i thought that interview with a representative yarmouth was very revealing. if there was cold water on this show, it was in that segment. and he was suggesting boy, i don't think we can write this that, fast he was also spoke as a budget, guy not a ways and means, guy because he did not want to talk about the, taxes he wanted to talk about the good stuff, that was spending money on. here's a thaw i've been having over the past 24 hours. which, is this bill, is a lot smaller than progressives had hoped for. progressives did not get all the spending they wanted. but did get one of the most extraordinary breakthroughs, in progressive taxation we have ever seen.
they could be out there growing. i think it's very important for president biden, that this thing be declared a victory, and for that to happen, but he needs the progressives to be, saying this is a big victory. >> jeanne, this could be one of the proposals that takes hold in the, senate because it's the only way the bill can pass the senate, is by using this particular new form of taxation. even though chairman richie neil does not like a on the tax writing committee, and maybe even a lot of the leadership doesn't like it in the house, the progressive caucus, in the house, i would think, would be supportive of this idea. >> i would think so. as a member of the progressive caucus is half the democratic caucus it's, power that's really in the house of representatives. and i think, yes they would be extraordinarily pleased if as you can expect, this very
progressive idea, suddenly became a reality, it is suddenly par, is blowing my mind. if it can be done. but, let's see. let's see if they can get it done. >> half of the washington post op-ed, page joining us. tonight eugene robinson e j.d., and thank you very much for joining. us we really appreciate. coming up. history will not judge us kindly. that was one of the many reactions from facebook employees, as they watch the january 6th attack on the capitol. we will talk to the reporter who got the documents, from the whistleblower, and broke this story for the world. that's next. story for the world. that's next. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal!
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they had, say, the automated systems tell police things that might be dangerous in certain countries that are at risk of bloodshed. those questions were set aside in the company just went ahead and grew s >> if mark zuckerberg were running an airline, all he would care about is growing, and he would have airplanes that were not and tamed well and he would have plane crashes all the time as part of doing business? >> i think i can say, having run through as many documents as i haven't spent so much time with them, facebook is very innovative, and they do a lot of interesting things. they build a lot of great things. maintaining them isn't a strength though. so it's probably for the best that this is an an airline. >> why does zuckerberg go to work every day? what does he want now? he maybe -- he turned his project from college over and made 120 billion dollars, something like that. is it the money? he's not doing anything particularly interesting. he is not one of those guys who scott rockets going into space and riding into space himself. he is not creating new products the way elon musk does. one is it? what does he go to work for? >> i think it seems like mark
actually does -- he's not going into space, he's not building electric cars. i think the focus right now of the company has been for a few years on two things. one, sort of maintaining the company and its existing products. even more so now, the metal verse, which is kind of a grand label for virtual reality, that facebook is working on right now, that really seems to be where his interest and heart issues. one of the important things is that, even as the company faces as much public scrutiny as it does
at the moment, they really -- mark, seems interested in the meta verse and facebook's work on that stuff then he doesn't say, the real world that facebook lives in. >> before you go, what would it take to get facebook to be good on the maintenance, as we call it? >> i think a lot of it is transparency. a lot of it is also simplicity. facebook has just continue to build things. the number of recommendations systems alone, inside the company, and scores. i have the number somewhere but, they simply, it's not the size of facebook, and into the complexity of. it it seems like it's causing them problems. to some degree, it is the willingness to keep pushing things forward, even when they don't necessarily know the complexity of the product. i would say simplicity is maybe the biggest thing they could do. >> jeff horowitz, thank you for joining us tonight. the polled surprises in the mail,
i'm sure. thank you very much for your reporting, we appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> and amy klobuchar, she questioned frances -- in a senate meeting three weeks ago. >> he said facebook implemented safeguards to reduce misinformation ahead of the 2020 election, but turned off those safeguards right after the election. you know that the insurrection occurred january 6th, do you think facebook turned off the safeguards because they were costing the company money, or because it was reducing profit? >> facebook changed those safety defaults in the run up to the election because they knew they were dangerous. and because they wanted that growth back they wanted the acceleration on the platform back after the election and they return to their original defaults. the fact that they had to break the glass on january 6th and turn back on i think that is deeply problematic. >> joining us now
is senator amy klobuchar. thank you for joining us. i just want to say, this situation it is just crazy and this is an extremely dangerous product that can be a safe product just like air travel. air travel is extremely dangerous if you just don't do the maintenance. >> i love the way mr. horowitz described this and a company that just kept going day after day how can we make more money? how can we get more people have? how can we expand the content and pretty soon they realized, hey, the more angry content, the more people read it. then we can target them with ads and make more money. it was basically that straightforward. as he described unraveling, and putting some safeguards on it for the rest of us, it's not so easy. i would start with this -- we simply have done nothing in washington. i have been crying for this, calling for it for years now. we must have a federal privacy law. we are working on that the congress committee under cantwell's
leadership, we have to do that now. people are asking, do i want my personal info to be used? apple says, no. 75% of the customer said they don't want to show their data. more stuff on kids, expanding the child privacy rules that are already in place, the law. number three, doing something about the auger them's that was pointed out by mr. horowitz. making it more transparent, what's happening. then competition policy. finally, making them liable for things when there is hates beach, and when there is violence, misinformation, in the middle of a public health crisis. mark struck her broken selves that he was on a pretty much no apology tour i believe a few weeks back i don't know if you is still there but the point is, i don't think they will get their on their own. >> they absolutely are not. that is what the wall street journal's reporting has proven here from inside the company is that zuckerberg knows everything. >> he does. >> he doesn't care. he does not care. he is not going to do anything to make this product safer for people to use. >> whether he intended to have it be safe from the beginning, it's really not as relevant to me anymore. what's relevant is that it isn't safe. they are going to continue doing this until we start passing some laws. you can't
have 20% of the economy reach out and then not have any privacy levels on the federal level -- and i have long been requesting, wrote a book about it, have a major bill i just put out bipartisan bill on how to stop self prefacing in some of the other crap going on one people trying to get a competitive edge. i think people need to stop listening to the over 300 tech lobbyists that are crawling around these halls where i am right now, and start listening to the moms and dads in their own states who will tell you that they are desperately trying to figure out how to protect their kids. one way you do it, with rules, the other way is by allowing competitors in the marketplace and not letting facebook by everything so that you can have
competitors that perhaps would have more safeguards for misinformation or protect kids more. that just isn't happening right now. >> mark zuckerberg said tonight that the wall street journal's reporting and frances haugen's whistle blowing, and supplying thousands upon, thousands of pages of data and information, what he says about that is, what we are seeing is a coordinated effort to selectively leak documents to paint a false picture of our company. what is your reaction? >> i heard that tonight. i
thought, okay, first of all, i didn't even know this information was coming out. i was going on my own on this for years, trying to put in some rules of the road. i talked on your show about it for political ads, trying to do something about all the hate speech that was part of what led -- and that's what the document showed today, january 6th. the fact that they were not doing anything. he claimed a limited 96% of hate speech. his own researchers saying, it was only 5%. so, what this is, is the truth is coming out. and some, point the truth was going to come out. then the question is, what do you do about? and that's what i am asking my colleagues. we will have another meeting on platforms tomorrow in the commerce committee, and we will move forward from there but we have to get something done now, lawrence. >> senator amy klobuchar. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, the january six committee is following the money to the hotel, where the trump misfits rudy giuliani and steve bannon
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is just steps away from the white house it's where abraham lincoln stayed before he moved into the white house. we don't get know if they only clean sweet was one of the rooms where a team of trump charlatans and criminals were plotting to crush democracy in america on january 6th. the washington post reports, they called it the command center, a set of rooms and suites in the hotel a block from the white house where some of president trump's most loyal lieutenants were working day and night with one villain mind overturning the results of the 2020 election. the command center was populated by, among others,
rudy giuliani who is no longer allowed to practice on washington d.c. or new york. the incompetent and corrupt bernard kerik who they installed as u.s. police commissioner before he was convicted of federal crimes, then pardoned by dome trump. steve bannon who was charged with federal crimes, then pardon by donald trump before trial lawyer john eastman, who is now desperately trying to disown the false legal memos he wrote for donald trump saying vice president mike pence could decide to the next president of the united states should be. john eastman is now obviously really -- living in fear of losing his right to law as giuliani. >>
chairman thompson is saying that, anything is possible in terms of where the subpoenas will be going next, but it seems like the january six committee does have to calculate how long a fight, a legal fight, donald trump would put up over a subpoena. we would issue it to various individuals around the country if we have enough evidence. we are pursuing evidence, but if the evidence leads to former president trump, or anyone else, the committee, is not resonant in pushing back on it. we will go forward with it. >> joining us now, democratic congress eric swalwell of -- california. he served in the second
impeachment of donald trump. he is a member of the house intelligence committee and the house judiciary committee. thank you for joining us tonight, mr. swalwell. chairman thompson is saying that, anything is possible in terms of where the subpoenas will be going next, but it seems like the january six committee does have to calculate how long a fight, a legal fight, donald trump would put up over a subpoena. >> lawrence, we should assume he's gonna fight everything. that's what he does. he is a legal terrorists, as we would call him on the impeachment team. we offered for him to come and testify in impeachment number two. if you recall, he refused that we believe that showed a consciousness of guilt. if he makes the same refusal if he's asked for january 6th, i hope the company recognizes the reason he won't come forward, is that is as it relates to this edition suite at the willard hotel, yes, we should know who paid for and
stayed in that suite, at the very least. >> yeah, apparently there were several of them. let's listen to john eastman, the lawyer who was there providing the phony legal memos to justify stealing the we will listen to him on a podcast talking about that command center and then running over to the rally, so that he could speak >> we had a war room at the willard, the wheel lured hotel, kind according all the and when the presidents arrival to the rally in front of the white house was delayed, rudy giuliani and i were asked if we would come onstage and say a few words. the rally organizers had a number of campaign and trump family people that had been speaking all morning long, but then there was all of a sudden a big gap before the president is going to be able to and so, i wasn't even the one who was asked. >> it sounds like the january six committee has a lot more questions for him about what was going on at the willard. >> that's right, lawrence. if they were successful in the
coup, he would be celebrated for his work, but now mr. eastman, like so many others, are distancing themselves and that's to be expected. what he described their shows organization, premeditation, planning, a purposefulness in what they were doing which leads me to believe that this was anything but some sort of impromptu rally. this is something that for, nearly two and a half weeks, donald trump had prepped his supporters for when he sent that 2 am tweet saying january 6th will be wild, then spent $50 million all the way up to january five, inviting, inciting, and assembling people to then of course his remarks at the ellipse that they were he told his supporters to go somewhere he wasn't willing to go himself, the capital. ?
president biden has once again denied a donald trump request of executive privilege for material subpoenaed records, from the trump white house that are no stored at the white house. biden sent a letter to the white house and said, president biden has determined we see again joe biden saying, turn overall deal -- information. >> executive power does have some boundaries. when you help incite assemble a mob, aimed that mob at the capitol, to essentially overthrow the government, that that is going a little bit too
far. we hope that sticks. the department of justice, also in my case, in my lawsuit against the former president, has said that more brooks, who have been listed as a plaintive was not in his scope of employment as he went and showed up at that rally and made his inflammatory results. what we are seeing with the rhetoric coming out from january 6th and those that seek to defend it, is that this is a party that has chosen violence over voting, grievances over governing, and lies over leading, and we cannot expose that enough. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you for joining me tonight. >> my pleasure. >> and coming up, today, four years after nazis descended on charlottesville virginia, they are being sued in federal court using a law that was written to stop the ku klux klan from the south. charlottesville was -- home, she was there when nazis invaded four years ago and she
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the federal civil rights trial of the nazi organizers of the deadly rally in charlottesville virginia four years ago, who chanted through the night, jews will not replace us. nine plaintiffs have brought a federal civil rights lawsuit alleging several -- committed racial violence. the complaints read, the violence, suffering, and emotional duress that occurred in charlottesville as a direct, intendant, and foreseeable resolve the defendants and lawful conspiracy. the organizers violated the ku klux klan anthem of 1871, which nbc news notes could provide a model to hold those to incite right-wing extremist violence dependable. the lawyer say prove the violence was amy's
bottleneck, executive -- premeditated buzzfeed news, they hope the trial will prevent them from striking again by effectively bankrupting and dismantling these groups and their leaders. joining us now is dahlia lithwick -- firstly.com and host of the podcast, amethyst. thank you for joining us. i know you lived there for about 17 years in charlottesville, and lived there at the time. what was it like, as we were watching in a tv coverage? you had a closer view though. >> it's so funny, lawrence, that whole summer, you may recall, there was a porch light march in june with somebody all right folks and then the clan showed up in july and by the
time we got to august, it really felt as though charlottesville had become the hot bed of white supremacy and antisemitism and virulent anti black racism and i always tell people, it is this beautiful, sleepy, college town and nobody expected what came to be known as the summer of hate, but it just felt like every incident begets a new incident and it really blew up on those two days in august of 2017. >> as a legal scholar yourself, seeing civil litigation used to this way is something new and it seems to be, so far, something really effective. >> it's taken four years and if ever there was a reminder that the wheels of justice grind very, very slowly, this trial and endless delays partly
because of the defendents dropping their phones in toilets and -- without a doubt, this is an incredibly ambitious civil trial this isn't a criminal trial and the intention here is to smoke out to these people were, what they were planning, and most importantly who was the financing them and to really lay down a marker to say, you don't get to come to a town, essentially invade a town, with the intention of harming and maiming and burning and terrorizing and then sail off and say it was just free speech. even though it's incredibly complicated trial and a heavy lift, and emotionally, incredibly difficult for these plaintiffs who are reliving it, i do think it will be consequential if only to do the thing that this happened so rarely in the last couple years which is find accountability and level
consequences. >> there is no chance of anyone going to jail as a consequence of this case because it's a civil case, monetary damages. they're asking for's financial monetary damages and those damages can bankrupt these defendants and certainly ruined their lives financially for the foreseeable there is a very real life penalty involved in these kinds of cases. >> there is, lawrence. some of the defendants have already complained that it's simply trying to gather together their defenses for trial. they have already bankrupted them. some of them are saying i am living in my parents basement. i had to crowd source my legal there have already been very real consequences for some of these if the intention is to make it the case this isn't something he wanted to do because you
might end up living in your parents basement, that is a win before the trial begins. >> how long the expect the trial to take? >> we are hearing until mid jury selection started today that may take a day longer than was and to support it originally. we are looking about four and six weeks. dahlia lithwick thank you for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. we will be right back. ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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comcast business powering possibilities. breaking news here. this just in. senator joe manchin had dinner tonight in washington d.c., with a group that included a handful of journalist, including nbc news. senator manchin gave brief remarks on the record, including this quote. i think we will get something,
i really do. the infrastructure bill, it's a good bill. that we need. joe manchin, gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams, starts now. >> good evening once again, day 270, nine of the biden administration. the president once again making it clear, that he will not help his predecessor, assert a claim of executive privilege. to keep additional material hidden from the house committee, investigating january 6th. president biden's white house counsel sent that message, in a letter, today over the national archives, trump's filed a lawsuit of course to keep documents related to one six, out of that committee's hands. this week that house committee could learn more about the organization, the planning of the rallies that took place in the weeks before the riot.