tv Ayman MSNBC October 23, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
a . it has been 156 years since the american civil war, and yet race, heritage, tradition, and geography continue to shape to taint a portrait of the american. you are not going to want to miss "civil war," sunday night at 10:00 eastern right here on msnbc. thank you very much for sticking with us. good evening to you, we got a
lot more to talk about. welcome to the second hour of "ayman," here is what's on the table for you. a deal could be on the horizon as democrats work to reach a deal before biden leaves for europe. tired of seeing those qanon posts from your uncle from facebook? we'll take a look at how facebook knew about radicalized users. i am ayman, let's get started >> for a first time in a long time, the house democratic leadership told its members expect a vote on both the build back better legislation and the
bipartisan infrastructure bill next week. we still don't have a final copy of the bill yet. yes, we are starting to hear more about what's in and what's out as i mentioned earlier. spoiler alert, much of what's included is a water down version of the items the president campaigned on. but, washington in and the future of our country is still dancing in the wings of two conservative senators, obviously republicans who do not want to be apart of it. take tax increases on corporations and the wealthiest among us. a deal breaker for kristen sinema. >> she will not raise a single penny on taxes on the corporate side and on wealthy people. period. >> okay, senator sinema, position like that which are
drastically out of step with the democratic party, a big part why senator sinema are facing with so many criticisms. in a scathing letter where they accused sinema hanging out her constituents the dry. you have become one of the principal obstacles to progress, answering to big donors rather than your own people. we should not have to buy representation from you and your failure to standby your people and see the urgent need is alarming. details of the meeting between senator bernie sanders and manchin proven how much power he has. >> all the months and months of negotiations, all the promises biden made on the campaign trail to voters could be gone just like that.
now, despite that punch bowl report at the white house, it would be easier to work with a deal with manchin than with sinema. they're hoping they can get her or guilt her into doing the right thing for her constituents. however, this plays out, our democracy and our country itself is basically being held hostage by two senators. here is how president biden puts it at a town hall the other night. >> when you are a united states senate and you are the president of the united states, you have 50 democrats, every one is a president. every single one. >> i agree with what the thrust the president is saying there. there are only two senators, just two for holding up the democratic agenda. we don't have one president or 50 presidents. we have three of them. congratulations president sinema
and president manchin. >> joining me now, the new host of the new abnormal podcast, trevor noah. it's great to have all of you here on a saturday night. noah, i will start with you. there has been signs of optimism from democrats on the hill but the future and the totality is still very much in the air. do you think they'll be able to work out a meaningful compromise? >> i am sure they'll work out something that shows what a huge risk joe biden took by putting all of these programs from climate to taxing the rich, to so many others into one single bill and you know biden took a huge risk knowing that he had a
very closely divided senate and now he's seeing some of the regard of that gamble. we'll see if he can get anything out of sinema and manchin. >> molly, give me your take on what this says about our state of democracy of these two state senators one who's from west virginia and i always make the point as i did in the introduction there that it's these two senators that are holding this up. a lot of people put the blame on republicans. the republicans are not negotiating in good faith about this. there are a factor of this when you have two democratic senators that can make this a possibility to happen and they're blocking it. >> yeah. they are a fascinating riddle and sinema, that does not make
any sense. if you look at arizona, that's a state that's becoming very blue and there is another democratic senator, you can understand manchin, he's a state that trump won by 70 points. sinema does not make any sense. if you think of her like a little spoiler or like jill stein, it makes a little more sense. >> josh, side note here, how bad of a look is it for somebody like senator sinema that the white house now reportedly believes that senator manchin of all people seem to be reasonable of these two. do you think she's approaching in good faith and will the pressure campaign on her being able to work here? >> it depends on the money thing israel of people coming to her
and she's looking out for donors than her constituents, if that thing is true, yeah. no, the money is still going to be there if it makes sense. i think it's also important to focus on when you think about 2022 and midterms to have more democrats everywhere. then you are not relying on just these two people. yes, maybe there does come a day where everyone does not fall in line and in step with the majority what they want to do but it won't derail everything. i live in new york, i had a situation where i can barely pay my rent and to biden's point he was making before, every dollar mattered. i could not be like hey, will you take $749 because i almost have it. >> that's the alarming thing, right? she's ambiguous and the white house is calling her out.
noah, you have corey bush who's been calling out senator sinema to some extent and the position she's taking. we generally don't know what she's negotiating on. it begs the question how do you negotiate someone who does not make their positions clear and remains ambiguous at best and does not give you any goals to reach for? >> i will add in one more twist, what we seem to know about her position, contrast with the position she held before. she use to be a big environmental and now she seems to be against it. she used to be a big proponent of taxing the wealthy and now she appears to not be. the only comfort we can take from this is she appears to be keeping the cards very close to her vest and appears to be negotiating in private with the
white house. there maybe movement and privately we are not seeing publicly. it's totally friggin' weird. >> some are saying they hold the party hostage. there is been this speculation whether manchin or sinema may switch party. manchin was asked about it this week. listen to this. >> anything that's said or talked about and if i am an embarrassment to my democrat colleagues and caucus, and the president being the democratic party and chuck schumer and all them. i said me being a moderate centrist causing you a problem, let me know. i will make that offer if you need it. >> he calls himself a moderate centrist democrat.
do you think there is a place for conservative democrat like joe manchin in the democratic party? >> you know this is my thing. i am hopping ideas from a friend who's very wise said this a week or so ago. it's like you almost need all the d's and all the r's, don't tell anybody. let everybody run and then we'll see what we like about who we like and then we'll vote on ideas and if they pass -- this thing like i am this type of democrat which basically makes me a republican, it's kind of like when you try to figure out your labels dating. we are either together or not. we are taking a break for a minute. >> i am totally with you. as a country we reduced ourselves to six questions as a litmus test as to which party you belong to.
here we are reduced to two parties. >> yeah, i feel like it's amazing with this many people agreed with anything like at all ever. and i am not talking about congress, i am talking about as a democrat, you look at the democrat party whether it's the house representative or anything and you are like that's a lot of people. i have been to parties before where we gave everybody a voice. we ordered nothing. we truly just, we left the party hungry because the people were like pizzas, no burgers or hot dogs. it was like well, if we are all equal here, we are all going to be hungry and starving. >> i got to admit watching president obama today, i was nostalgic, let me play it for you of our viewers, president obama out campaigning for governor phil murphy. >> i know why sometimes folks
get tired and maybe they say ah, i am not going to bother voting this time. here is the thing, we can't afford to be tired. i remember 2016, folks said oh, i am not inspired. you know, obama was okay but we didn't get everything we wanted so i am going to sit -- you know, you'll know how that turned out? that's what happens when you are not paying attention. that's what happens when you become complacent or you let your frustration lead to in action. we can't afford to be tired. >> so molly, you think we as a country and democrats as a party and their base and constituents are tired and exhausted and not taking the moment and next year
seriously. >> we'll see. there is a lot of anxiety and there is the republican party trying to consolidate a vote and a democratic party argued about whether or not they should give free glasses. we don't know what's going to happen in virginia. there is certainly a lot of anxiety including myself. i have it too about virginia and what a win for youngkin. he's a very trumpian guy. we saw what happened in 2020. the stakes are very high. >> even if youngkin wins and what it means and everyone one holding up for trump. >> molly and josh, don't go anywhere, we got a lot more to discuss including internal
documents facebook long known its algorithm pushed some users to extremism. plus, natural immunity verses vaccine community, why one talk show host deliberately trying to catch covid. richard louie is here with the headline. the story we are watching for you, one person dead and seven injured. police responded to gunfire on saturday morning. the person killed was not a student. the injured are expected to survivor. ukrainian businessman parnas was found guilty. he convicted on all counts. and peter scolari passed away earlier this week. he was renowned for his act and
versatility and best known for his role on "newhart and girls." he's been fighting cancer this year, he was 66 years old. more with ayman right after this. more with ayman right after this ♪ ♪ before you go there, or fist bump there, or... oh! i can't wait to go there! or reunite there, start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free flu shot and covid-19 vaccine today. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual wherever you go. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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maybe you have seen her on facebook, politically conservative mother from wilmington, north carolina with an interest in politics. she's a fan of fox news and donald trump. carol smith is not a real person. a facebook researcher created the fake account in 2019 as an experiment study tg platform's role and misinforming and polarizing users known as algorithm. the fake carol never expressed interests of conspiracy theory. it only takes two days for facebook to recommend her joining groups. >> whatever algorithm facebook was using determining how she could engage with the platform, pushed ahead.
the nbc news story just one of four explosive pieces that dropped last night that examines the social media giant role and spreading misinformation and conspiracy. >> we are joined by sicilia kang. i will begin with you, the new york times published a story that breaks down facebook's role in spreading election misinformation. the company's staff members repeatedly raised red flags about the spread of misinformation and conspiracy before. they failed to struggle to address these issues, i know you didn't where i these stories but you have done a lot of reporting. is this a character for facebook? >> absolutely.
character. i think it's not unfamiliar at this point to have a company ignored warning signs and alarm bells that was founded in hanoi. what was interesting about these documents though is that we are able to see and able to hear employees of their own words. >> and right how this system works. facebook analogy made it worse. it made misinformation it got people into groups. >> that was really important. it's not the people causing the problem but it's the company's technology that's making it
worst. >> in 2016, a lot were focusing on the spots and everybody trying to go for the -- >> it's antidotal but within a couple of weeks of trying to follow more conservative voices, more right wing media outlets and accounts, my facebook page completely transformed from being something like my friends and family and people i know overseas to become right wing feed of conspiracy theories and this was not prepandemic and i was getting all kinds of information. >> the algorithms are in control of all this. it's impossible to break out of that. >>. >> yeah, i think -- >> sorry, go ahead, noah.
>> the algorithm is not in control. people wrote it, they want to engage users and panel them to just for confirmation. >> for a long time, mark zuckerberg presented himself of. >> the better with the world if we seawall share one another. >> they were not sharing of what they knew about their own platform which was pulling people further a down. not just conspiracy and believes or like qanon inspired people to murder. we had several cases now of
child on duction murders inspired by qanon. these are people that are being led into a dangerous death cult. facebook is right in the center of leading people down into a death cult. it needs to be called into account from doing so. >> things got so bad back in 2018, he had to go on and apology to her. let me play a little bit. >> we didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility and that was a big mistake. >> it was my mistake, i am sorry. >> this was a major breach of touch. i am sorry that this has happened. >> we didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility. now it's a mistake and i am sorry for it. >> how many times do you get to apologize when you are the ceo of such a powerful company? >> zuck always seems to be really, really sorry, if they
didn't take a broad enough view, they'll do better. >> are we just picking on the poor guy, would she leave them alone? your trillion dollars company, enough is enough with this. >> yeah, facebook this cycle. we didn't mean to do this. remember 2016, this chps with cambridge analytica please. >> and, yeah, yofs to go to therapy but then they don't do anything. it's wonderful that they make this apology but it's ultimately they then continue to become actors. no, obviously, they have one motive. they are not going to do the
right thing simply somebody holds them to the standard. i don't know how that's going to happen. so far, that's a real problem. >> josh, i feel like you want to get in on this. >> yeah, i should laugh. every time zuckerberg says he's sorry, he says it like it's the first time. he's such a deep. you can say it quickly. >> and the other thing of that i didn't need to get out about, algorithms in general, no matter what site you are on or what program you are using. >> algorithm is not made with personality and mind. >> there may be a day we love chocolate and there may be ayou
want to strawberry. i can't just eat this until i am gone. if that makes sense. >> it totally makes sense. >> and inserting some of that personality and what helps a lot and you also would not have to say sorry so slowly all the time. i would say let the people follow what they want to follow and they don't have to keep on pushing tough. i got to ask you quickly. facebook is reportedly changing its corporate name like taking a page out of google. the second word from game name in 2007. the same year it released its iphone. it's unclear whether this name change is going to actually work for facebook. there was this moment in the social network talks about dropping off. >> dropping facebook. it's cleaner.
>> since they already dropped the "the", what do you they of dropping the word "facebook" as well. >> two things. one last thing to finish up the other thought is that i did and i love my mama so much. >> my mama shared my netflix account with me. two years point you are making earlier. you can't have the way that algorithm works, i am watching "squid game" and my mama is watching andy griffin. >> i think that's the problem that facebook is having. >> to the name change point. you have to ask yourselves, as an individual even, if you have to change your name, what would you do? >> you rarely changing your name. >> i won't say ever. you are changing your name for
good reasons. >> but, my an, we were called on it. >> this is a different situation. you are changing your name as a person or under witness protection. >> something is happening. you dug something and you are on the run. yeah. >> and the thing is we don't need facebook to that i think their names. >> the name ching does the same thing. >> he's going to be sorry with a different names behind it on the banner. >> hill. >> are they too big to face real consequences? >> we just played the montage of apologies. nothing gets done. >> is this time difference, do you think? >> it's so, but facebook been
here before. they were here in 2011. this is the beginning of a big, big change. >> just as molly was saying the figurest issue or savoring grace is is that the government is not doing anything. the gofrt is not prioritized this even though they say they do. until they are able to come up with real life decision that does not everybody else, and enacting legislation. this won't be a figure facebook. >> it has been down recently, a lot of it has to do with a lot of things as well. >> market problems and related to privacy and other issues. >> i don't know, too big to fill is a very good question. >> panel, thank you for staying with us.
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♪♪ there is new report on the onset accident involving alec baldwin. the previous incident happens a week ago. we got new picture of the star meeting with the woman's family who was tragically killed. >> reporter: new photos of alec baldwin embraing with the family of hutchins killed on thursday on a movie set. >> we all ran out. two people accidentally. >> reporter: a closer look at the chaos and confusion on the set of it is western film
"rust," that ended in tragedy. the leal weapon that killed the cinematoghper. >> the woman lost her life. didn't have to happen. court documents revealed dave halls handed a prop gun to baldwin and southed "cold gun ". it was safe. he grabbed it from a cart arranged by the person in charge of firearms. she revealed in a podcast last month, she's brand new to the role. >> that has taught me everything. safety guidelines for the industry largely barred
ammunition onsets. except for the rare equations and notifications will be be made on the call sheet. >> this one israel. armor is saying once the ammunition is in the weapon, it's impossible to tell or not enough experience to check. >> legal analyst, for baldwin, criminal charges are not. >> for him to be charge ld is he would have to have knowledge that prop gun is lowed with five rounds. >> tonight, he's breaking his silence, i am gutted by the loss of my friends and colleagues, helena hutchins. the tragic loss of life have not stopped folks from trying to score cheap points onlineonline.
>> jdvance, twitter chief jack dorsey should let trump back on the site because we supposedly need alec baldwin tweets. if there is one thing none of us need in our lives is about trump tweeting this situation. as you may have guested, over 15,000 and counting many users suggesting that vance delete his entire account. how badly his street is coming forward. >> the founder of moms demand
actions put the focus where it needs to be. >> she wrote, a woman is dead, a son is stolen from her. our heart goes out to family and loved ones of helena hutchins. >> coming up, imagine trying to get covid-19 on purpose. talk about a fever dream. my panel is back next to talk about it. panel is back next to about it bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪
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actively trying to get infected. this is a horrifying trend in this industry. five conservative talk show hosts have died from covid-19. my panel is back with me to discuss this. i don't want to talk about any of the conservative radio hosts who have died as a result of covid-19. i got to ask what preger is trying to do here. >> i wanted to achieve natural immunity which is by far the most robust immunity that one can have against covid or any virus. i hug stranger in the thousands, litically in the thousand while not being inoculated. >> and it was a gal bell based on the dodge and not based on
being a gamblers. i am yacht a gamblers. i don't gamble with my health. >> noah, would you not call that gambling with your health? >> i definitely would call it gambling with my health and ill like some of the drugs that dennis is currently taking. because what was that was going on in that clip it was not a man in his right bind. he sounded by the way for out of it. >> will semier and wile from the daily beast report. she's making a show like kicking ford on the monday and picking them up and koent to use them. thinking of the nature ralg
restaurant floor bacteria. >> she's a period cat even if she's not drugged up. >> yeah, this is a head scratcher for me. >> i got to ask you, right wing radio show host, it is a huge sort of covid-19 misinformation. >> that's the problem. days before prayinger announced he was positive, he was in colorado speaking a campaign event for the gubernatorial kand nate. >> these focuses have a lot of influences. >> should more be done to kak down this information before more people sick or die. >> you don't know when he got covid. one of those seven people may have died and as a result of spreading it. >> this is a specific drift here. the far right decided that the
vaccine is not okay. >> the environmental antibody therapy would cause thousands of dollars and have to be minister by investigation is okay. >> you saw i am not going to take the vaccine. this is the scam of what they are doing. >> they're going to take a horse pill. and they're going to take the thing that actually works and they're going to say i don't know. what it was, maybe it's the thing that actually works and maybe warmer and who can tell. >> obviously, the problem is. >> we are a country that's not set up for this level of information. when you try to control speed, you get through a lot of problems. >> that's what congress is scared of. we never had a disinformation like this. >> it's a possible situation,
there has not been legislation that's caught up with it. >> yeah, it's totally scary. >> they're killing their own people. seems like a bad business motter. >> let me ask you about the other end of this impossible task as molly was talking about. you have the nhl on monday suspending the sharks forward. >> i am thinking with more and more companies and organizations trying to implement vaccine mandates. how worried should we be of fake id and go to trade yum and go to concerts. they sure as welcome up with a make id card to get in. >> honestly, so many things on my mind right now. i totally understand the fake id thing is something i didn't
think i would have to deal with again once i turn 2021. what mosley said is mind-blogling. honestly, i got to be real with us for just a quid second please. >> i know what he said but i don't know if i would believe him. >> this is an interesting time to get covid. there is a vaccine out. it's like, the rates are going down in certain parts of the country. >> my man is saying he's been wuk k thousands of people. he's out here doing a lot. >> he was trying to get covid the entire time. he didn't go to spring break 2020 or any of the motorcycle valley. >> they man did not do the things you needed to do to get covid and i will be honest with you, as far as when you are embarrassed, you are a little bit of embarrassed and you use
the tactic of i meant to do that or this is all part of my play. >> i have used this tactic many times. >> it was mutual. it's a thing that people do. i think it's a thing that he's doing. and as far as the nhl goes. i just think, you are talking about a situation on the hole it exposes the fact that vaccination cards in a way that we go about proving vaccination status needs to be more con secret. >> fake id is something that you will have to figure out as you go. people have those for licenses and of course. >> all right, guys, we'll have to leave it at that. >> chuck johnson.
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