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tv   American Voices With Alicia Menendez  MSNBC  October 23, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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inside the latest reporting on how rampant the spread of misinformation was on facebook leading up to the attack on the capitol. a discussion about the company's role around january 6th and what it could mean for its future. as congress discusses the spending bills, my question, which generation will be impacted the most. ruben gallego and i will talk about the bills and the senator representing the state he represents, kyrsten sinema. good news when it comes to the effectiveness of the covid vaccine in young kids. this "american voices."
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we begin this hour with the disinformation spreading on social media and how it threatens our democracy. let's start with carol who joined facebook in 2019. she listed a few of her interests, her christian faith, and motherhood. she followed fox news and donald trump. nbc then reports, quote, though smith had never expressed interest in conspiracy theories, in just two days facebook was recommending she join groups dedicated to qanon. smith didn't follow the recommended qanon groups, but whatever algorithm facebook was using to determine how she should engage with the platform pushed ahead just the same. within one week, smith's feed was full of groups and pages that had violated facebook's own rules, including those against hate speech and disinformation. now, carol isn't a real person. in fact, the account was created
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by a facebook researcher studying the platform's role in polarizing its users through disinformation. tonight we're learning just how widespread disinformation travels on facebook. new reporting from "the new york times" reveals a facebook data scientist warned colleagues' lies about the 2020 election results. the "times" writes in the days following the election, quote, as much as one out of every 500 views on facebook in the united states or 10% of all views of political material was of content declaring the vote fraudulent, the researcher wrote. those are the same lies touted by donald trump that led to the insurrection at the capitol , that lies much of the republican base still believes. the house committee investigating the january 6th attack has subpoenaed 19 people to get to the bottom of the truth and hold those responsible accountability. but who's holding facebook and other social media companies accountable as we learn new details about the disinformation spread online? joining us now to discuss, renee deresta, msnbc terrorism analyst
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malcolm nance, brian barbara, and sheer ra frankel. walk us through your reporting and what it is you learned. >> our reporting looked at a number of documents, some of those are the same documents that frances haugen brought before congress a few weeks ago. some of them are new documents that were brought to us by other researchers. what they really show is that for years facebook has documented internally how its own efforts to stop misinformation are not working. we read reports in which they look at superspreaders, people who are responsible for spreading a great amount of misinformation and how facebook's tactics at trying to diminish or lessen the impact is just not working. you see the breadth of how much facebook actually knew about the problems surrounding misinformation and how helpless the company was at stopping this very real problem on their platform. >> would you say they were helpless or there was not the
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appetite to contend with it ? >> it's hard because we see the accounts of people struggling to come up with solutions. at least on the part of the researchers, the data scientists, and i would say many of the security team experts that work within facebook, there seem to have been an abundant appetite. i remember reading in one of the notes, somebody saying, you know, i've been up every night this week, i worked the last three weekends because this is keeping me awake at night and i want to figure it out. i can't say that same appetite , that same drive to solve the problem was seen among the company's executives, people like mark zuckerberg. >> renee, as i was reading this new reporting coming out today, i thought very much of your piece in "the atlantic" in which you write, quote, the public has become an active participant in creating and selectively amplifying narratives that shape realities. perhaps the best word for this emergent bottom-up dynamic is one that doesn't exist quite yet, ampliganda.
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first, i want to know if i'm pronouncing that right and how that compares to general disinformation, renee. >> so we were trying to describe this dynamic. my team has stanford was looking at the election kind of as outside researchers while those groups were forming, while that activity was happening. and i felt increasingly that misinformation was an absolutely inadequate word. it implies a falsifybility, and that's not the kind of content we were seeing. some of it was. allegations that the election were fraudulent, for example, very much falsifiable and the platform was trying to label, try to contend with that, but at the same time one of the real dynamics facing us is that it is just a form of this bottom-up propaganda, information with an agenda designed to activate people. they stole the election and you must take action, and it is a lot of that kind of latter
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content that people who have internalized this belief that are now expressing that they need to take action because of it. it's very hard for a platform to say, okay, this is an okay line for political expression and this is not, so the measures and the things they were trying to contend with were where are the demonstrable calls for violence, but there was this dynamic happening and there's very little counterspeech in those communities, very little that is able to really defuse that as it became kind of a ticking time bomb leading into january 6th. >> malcolm, we've seen just how dangerous that call to action became. >> yeah, you're absolutely right. we certainly have. i want to step back a few years and point out that this is not the first time that we've seen -- excellent term, by the way, ampliganda, being used to motivate and go out and kill or dog do something against societal numbers. we saw this in 2014 when the islamic state organization, isis and al qaeda used the
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amplification and glorification of their videos, propaganda, using platforms like facebook, whatsapp, and instagram and others to show this imaginary world they were carving out was a place to abandon their own homes, fly to turkey and make their way to syria, and they could live in this islamic fantasy world where they can kill at will and take people as slaves. fast forward to today or to the run-up to the 2020 election. these people who've been -- who have used facebook as sort of a tsunami of disinformation to surf wanted to be in the water anyway. so facebook itself is certainly not the payload of information that goes out and finds its way into the propagandistic target. it is the cruise missile. it is the weapon itself that hauls that disinformation and delivers it indirectly into the minds of individuals.
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it's almost sinister in the sense that facebook does not seem to care as long as it generated money. they care with the islamic state started mass murdering people, but they didn't care when the united states government was nearly overthrown. >> we have seen lawmakers disengage with misinformation. you reported about wisconsin senator ron johnson's move to block the confirmation of president biden's pick to oversee prosecutions stemming from the insurrection. you wrote, quote, a spokesperson for job site said the delay tactic is intended to pressure the justice department to respond to a june letter in which senate republicans appear to equate the attack on the
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capitol to the social unrest that followed the murder of george floyd. talk to me about what is going on here. >> absolutely. thanks for having me. what we saw from senator johnson this week acknowledging his role in delaying the confirmation of biden's choice to oversee the prosecutions is a continuation of a line of rhetoric as this reckoning with january 6th. we've seen throughout american culture among republican lawmakers, even on the court here in d.c. is they have processed these various prosecutions. this litigation, so to speak, between whether this is a false equivalence or not. at the very least, it's a curious equivalency. we're comparing largely peaceful protests to the systemic discrimination of black people in this country over the last
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year to an attack on the seat of american democracy with the express intent of blocking the certification of biden's victory. so we're seeing that and we're now seeing that senator ron johnson is escalating that rhetoric to a point where he is essentially trying to, you know, as i said in the piece, using delay tactics to force that litigation, that debate that's happening in our broader society. >> there's the bigger question of what this means for facebook. you have been deep in this work. your sense of where this is headed? >> you know, i think there's no doubt that people within facebook want to solve this problem and they understand the seriousness of this problem. it's not just a problem here in the u.s. we published a story today on facebook doing very similar research in india, doing really the same methodology of creating an account and showing how quickly a person in india was
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drawn towards violent imagery, hate speech, groups that spread conspiracy theories. this is a global problem that threatens democracy all over the world, and i think facebook is a company that knows that regulation is coming, if not here from the united states, then from another country who can't afford to stand by and sort of wait for them to figure it out, especially when we don't see executives seemingly paying attention to the very serious and alarming research that is being done by their own employees. >> as there's this conversation about what potential regulation could look like, you also make the case that we as individuals need to get better at recognizing disinformation. what does that look like? >> i think a lot of what happens is people really come to feel that these communities that they're pushed into oftentimes through recommendation engine as
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other parts of the facebook document showed, they provide an opportunity for real comradery and they're very much called to action, called to retweet -- sometimes that call to take action extends to violence. one of the things the public doesn't really understand -- this is because algorithmic curation is so complex, is understanding why they see what they see, understanding that certain content is intended to rage bait and perhaps media literacy efforts, which really right now focus on young kids in college, people on tiktok, i would argue that's not the generation that needs it, actually. the ability to understand that the information that you see is actually designed to rile you up a lot of time and recognize that prompt, to recognize that when you share out of that outrage, you are, in fact, begetting that conspiracy theory or that propaganda. i think that at this point what we need is an education in what that dynamic looks like and how we can recognize our own emotional reactions to the content that we see in order to try to, you know, while regulators are doing their work and data scientists inside facebook are fighting the good fight to improve curation, what can we do to change the environment just a little bit?
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>> malcolm, i heard you give an emphatic sigh when i did. i'll let you have the final word. >> yeah. facebook itself could be a benign platform, except that there has been a financial decision made that these algorithms will continue to generate income because it does stoke emotion. facebook is an emotion-fanning machine, right? it's almost like one of these ginormous fans that they use on boats that go through everglades to get each individual to work for it to amplify that rage. rage equals money. they figured that out. and by channelling you to those places that stoke your emotion, they don't seem to particular care whether that ends in a death or not until it crosses the societal bounds. as long as it generates billions of dollars, we're going to have this problem.
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facebook does need to be regulated and we need to start considering that the material that they have on there has to be treated like any other terrorist group that's out there. if they don't, well, maybe we have to force them to come to those terms. >> reign, malcolm, ryan, and sheera, thank you so much for getting us started. next, the compromise is happening to get some of the biden agenda through congress and the generation gap that could emerge in its wake. arizona congressman ruben gallego here to tell me about what we can expect over the next week. plus, new developments on younger kids and vaccines. first to richard lui standing by with a look at the other big stories we're watching. >> good day. new developments first in the fatal accident on the set of an alec baldwin movie. according to an affidavit, baldwin was assured a prop gun was not loaded before he fired it. that shot killed the director of photography, halyna hutchins, and injuring director joel souza. the gun misfired before, by the way.
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it prompted some crew members even to walk of the set. baldwin says he will fully comply with this investigation. the u.s. military says it carried out an air strike in syria that killed a senior al qaeda leader. it took a took place in the town of suluk near the turkish border after drones and rockets started military outpost in the country. the white house delayed a release of classified documents related to president john f. kennedy's assassination nearly 60 years ago. the white house says archivists need until december 2022 to review the redacted materials. this process was reportedly slowed by the pandemic. more "american voices" right after this break. q. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast.
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as congress prepares to pass what could be historic investments in human infrastructure, i can't stop thinking about what is at stake for america's younger
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generations. a recent survey found that more than a third of 25 to 40-year-olds are already saving up to care for their aging parents. at the same time, many of those same americans have kids of their own and they're spending an average of $16,000 a year on day care. that is on top of significant student debt. millennials took out more student loans than any other previous generation. also climate change top of mind. starting families as extreme weather events become more frequent and more severe. so far child care, elder case, paid family leave, increased pell grants and some climate funding still in the reconciliation bill. but no clean energy jobs, expanded medicare benefits, or free community college. a few weeks ago when i spoke with education secretary miguel cardona, he said that community college plan could be a game changer. >> two-year colleges lead to four-year colleges. they lead to better preparation for workforce.
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it leads to 21% on average better income for graduates of two-year schools than high school. we're close to something monumental that address the inequities since we've been collecting data. >> also raising the stakes for the reconciliation bill, the close governors races in virginia and new jersey. former president obama today touting the vision for the next generation. >> so right now we're helping to determine what kind of democracy are they going to inherit. what kind of planet are they going to inherit. what kind of economy are they going to inherit. what are we leaving for them? that's our choice. >> joining me now, democratic representative ruben gallego of arizona. he is a member of the house armed services committee. congressman, always good to see you. your colleague representative pramila jayapal struck a pretty positive note this morning about where things are headed. take a listen. >> we are getting much closer, and i think that's what the american people need to know.
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and at the end of the day, even some of the things that you had on the chopping block i don't think are actually gone. we are trying to get to a place where everybody can agree to something that is still transformative, and i believe even what we have on the table is still transformative. >> does her analysis square with your own? what is the latest on negotiations? >> look, i agree with what she's saying and she has been deep into negotiations. so i trust what she's saying and this is exactly what she's been telling us in our private conversations. but, look, we as a caucus -- and i say the democratic caucus because we're largely in unison need to pass bill. families were struggling before the pandemic hit and found themselves even deeper in the hole. so we want to make sure that we lift them up. we're going to do that by compromising.
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it's possible for us to still transform the american family to be sustainable and be in a good place, and we're just going to have to figure out how to get there, but it's entirely possible. we'll have to do it in shorter years, very targeted programs, but we will be able to change people's lives. >> we now have this new studio, i actually got to watch you out of the corner of my eye, and the reason i wanted to talk with you about this, congressman, is you and i are about the same age, we are older millennials. and there are a lot of these policies that really sort of disproportionately hit people about our age, younger generations, whether that is talking about the financial burden of child care, for the younger generation, generation behind us, talking about community college. there are a lot of people who are really sad to see that go. so how do you square, as you said, the ambition, the fact that this is undoubtedly
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transformational, that it looks like democrats are going to be able to deliver with what is going to be a disappointment about the things that were left out. i hear you saying perhaps you'll have to rethink how quickly some things get done, but with free community college, is there going to be a second chance at getting that back? >> look, i think we do have a second chance, but, you know, in politics you never let perfect be the enemy of good. giving family child tax credits is helping lift child poverty -- sorry, reduce child poverty 40% to 50%. helping people with child care is massively important, especially for our single women that want to go back to work but have this, you know, sophie's choice about going to work or staying home and watching their kids. there are other ways to do this. we can, for example, increase pell grants to cover a lot of the costs of community college. so we're going to go back and
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have another bite at this. there's going to be an opportunity, i think, next year, but most importantly we do not skip the chance to own the future right now by passing this type of what i would say very sane legislation and very good investment in the american people. the reason we need to pass this is, i say this all the time, there's hard infrastructure, your roads, bridges, airports. this is the infrastructure of opportunity for america. we pass this, we open up full opportunities for people to fully execute their american dream. >> congressman gallego, as always, thank you so much for your time. next, one step closer to making the vaccine available to younger kids, and the final authorization could be right around the corner. dr. kavita patel is here to talk us through that and all the new booster shot news. later, shocking new details about the human cost of the remain in mexico policy. new information about what the
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major developments indicating we may closer to vaccinating younger kids against covid. the fda on friday explaining the benefits of the pfizer vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 outweigh the risks. the pfizer study found a 90% efficacy rate in preventing symptomatic cases. they will discuss emergency authorization for lower doses of pfizer for children. also this week, the cdc signing off on the fda's approval for moderna and johnson & johnson boosters. all johnson & johnson recipients over 18 years old will be eligible for a booster shot at least two months after their first shot. the moderna boosters are recommended at least six months after receiving their last vaccine for anyone 65 and older or anyone over 18 at high risk because of their job or medical conditions.
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boosters for five years were approved last month and a recent study by pfizer found that taking their booster restored full protection with a 95.6 efficacy rate. the delta strain was the most prominent among the 10,000 people in the study. the fda's also allowing a mix-and-match approach for americans to get a booster from a different covid vaccine than they originally received. here's the cdc director on how that works. >> the vast majority of people will probably select the one that they originally received and did really well with, but there may be some people who would prefer a different vaccine or if you go into a pharmacy and they don't have the vaccine that you originally got, it really is fine to get a different vaccine. >> with me now, msnbc medical contributor dr. kavita patel. she is also the former director of policy for the obama administration. dr. patel, i got to say, you and i have weathered a lot of
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terrible news to that, and it is so great to be with you talking about a positive development. so how soon can we expect covid vaccines to be available for kids 5 to 11? >> yeah, alicia, it's incredible. so the countdown, tuesday the fda advisory committee will meet. as you said, they really are kind of overwhelmingly leaning towards a positive decision. the advisory committee meets november 1st and 2nd, and our clinics are already prepared in that following week. let's say somewhere around the week of november 8th we will start to have at least 15 million shots available. remember, there are 28 million children between ages of 5 and 11, so we have plenty and are excited to get that out. >> reporter: as these become available for younger kids, what are you going to say to parents who might be hesitant about giving it to their kid? >> i was waiting for this fda data and it came in friday night, the fda response to the pfizer data. it was encouraging, alicia. it said a couple things. for every 1 million children vaccinated, there are at least
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50,000 cases of covid that we can prevent with these vaccines and hundreds of hospitalizations. and then to the individual parents such as myself, such as you, anybody wondering, i would say, listen, the most common adverse side effects reported for fatigue, muscle pain. thankfully, no serious adverse events recorded at this time. and that's all good news. so preventing covid cases, having kids back in school without as many of the measures is in our sight with these vaccines. more kids that get it, more households that get it, the better holiday season as well. >> i love that a wild friday night at the patel residence is a data drop from the fda. i now want to talk about boosters and whether it is okay to mix and match different brands of vaccines. we were hearing that it is. so should people seek out a different booster than their
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original vaccine? sounds like you show up, you get what you get. >> yes, although i will say it's not anything like the january, february, march insanity of getting what you get. if you're in a city, a pharmacy or a doctor's office within ten miles if you want to pick one or the other. if you're a johnson & johnson recipient and it's been two months, you absolutely need to get a booster over the age of 18 no matter what your chronic conditions, everyone. and i would recommend based on the data, the mrna, pfizer or moderna, not a significant difference between the two. if you're one of tens of millions of americans who got moderna or pfizer in your original shot series, i think as dr. walensky mentioned, you might stick with the same series. but if you get the other one, moderna or pfizer, that's fine too. so i think you're really seeing a much more flexible approach with mix and match, and a less stressful one because you're not trying to search for the exact same shot that you got. if you do, great. if not, i think that you can
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live with what you have. in fact, it can be better for you, particularly if you received j&j. >> i did, in fact, receive j&j. i just got my flu shot. i'm very excited to go and get this booster. i do want to ask you about something that's emerging in the data that i think is interesting, and that's that the cdc says the number of americans getting their booster shots is outpacing those getting their first vaccine dose. what does that tell you? what do those numbers tell you? >> it does tell us that we have now as of october 19th the majority of americans who have received their first sets of shots, those are including some of those high-risk, over 65, people with chronic conditions. they're the first people we prioritized. of course they're going to be the ones in high demand for boosters, but as that demand subsides, we'll see a bit of an equilibrium. and i do think that as we see the mandates kicking in, federal contractors kicks in in december, cities are putting
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in october, november, december mandates, you'll see seasonal upticks in those first shots that will continue, i think. but at a slower pace. >> i do want to ask you about the j&j. given what we know now, should it ever have been a one-shot? >> no. i don't think so. i know this is met with controversy, but the fact that j&j presented the bulk of their data to the fda last week for a booster after two months, this signals this should've been a two-shot vaccine. having said that, alicia, one shot exceeded what the fda originally said we needed for meeting that minimum efficacy. we just kind of got so lucky that our mrna vaccines performed so well. the reason i say that is because so much of the world can benefit from that one shot of j&j and it's a really flexible injection to give. that's why i'm okay with one dose. but in the future, when we have enough vaccine for everyone, two doses is better.
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>> i'm very excited to get that second shot. dr. kavita patel, as always, thank you so much. the lasting legacy of the civil war and how americas is still coping with the divide 150 years later. plus, new details about the impact of remain in mexico, young children, people with medical conditions all caught up in the program. that's next. anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?
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eastern, msnbc will air a new documentary that takes a closer look how racism, geography, and pride influence the stories americans tell or refuse to tell about the civil war. the film emphasis a point made. here's author and journalist isabel wilkerson earlier this week with lawrence o'donnell. >> i think when we think about how divided we are as a nation, i'm reminded of how the majority of americans don't get a chance, have not gotten the opportunity to know our country's true history, our true and full history. and that has consequences because people, when they don't have an idea, that means it's harder to see what we have in common, it's harder to get on the same page about how we got to where we are. it's harder to understand how we happen to be where we are. and when you think about the civil war, in most wars it is the victors who write the story,
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it is victories who erect the monuments to their victory. and the civil war in this country, in our country, it was those who were defeated who ended up erecting monuments to themselves, in some ways memorializing the symbol of their cause and dominating the narrative. >> it could have left the marker of a reckoning. if, for example, there had been some penalty exacted upon the states that made war on the other states, i mean, just as an example, if we said, okay, welcome back to the united states of america. each one of you now get one senator instead of two. we would have had that permanent thing that we got to see about there's a price, there's something happened, something
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grievous happened for which a price had to be paid. >> you're absolutely right. there were no consequences. there were no consequences to moving forward -- first of all, the goal was to reunite the country, to keep the country impact, and that is what occurred. but when i think about how disconnected we are from our history, speaking to your point, you know, it's hard to get past the idea of slavery and the fact that slavery was a central part of the southern economy and the southern way of life, and it was that way of life that was one of the central aspects of what the war was about. and i want to say a little bit about what slavery really means, how it's connected to how we are, where we are now. first of all, slavery lasted for 246 years. that's 12 generations. how many grades of the word grandparent do we have to add to comprehend how long slavery
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lasted? this is an important thing to know. it will not be until next year, 2022, that the united states will have been a free and independent nation for as long as slavery has lasted on the soil. >> do not miss "civil war" airing tomorrow 10:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. america's difficult with race on full display in our immigration policy. next, the impact of remain in mexico, shocking new details about who was caught up. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ discomfort back there? instead of using aloe, or baby wipes, or powders, try the cooling, soothing relief or preparation h.
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brought to you by regeneron. [ eerie music playing ] and what you can do next—to take control of your sight. attention all responders be advised, we have a violent criminal at large. she's losing a lot of blood. be on the lookout for a man with a white mask. run. it's halloween, everyone's wearing masks. oh god. no man could have survived that fire. [ screaming ] michael myers has haunted this town for forty years. [ chanting ] evil dies tonight! tonight we hunt him down. [ chanting ] evil dies tonight! he's coming for me... -run. and i'm coming for him. an internal government report obtained by buzzfeed news offers a grim inside look at who was affected by trump's remain in mexico policy. the details, horrifying, migrants with young children with severe medical conditions who were sent to mexico despite dhs guidelines stating people with known physical or mental issues
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should not be placed in the program. the department of homeland security called the findings of the buzzfeed report, quote, incredibly concerning and demonstrates why restoring a humane approach to migration is so critical. the department also doubled down on its vow to end the program. but the supreme court has ordered the biden administration to resume the trump-era policy mid-november after a challenge from the state of texas. with me now, buzzfeed immigration reporter on that story, ahmed al aziz, and jean guerrero. ahmed, the investigators found some unaccompanied kids were sent back to mexico under the policy, which was also supposed to be prohibited. the most surprising thing for you? >> the dysfunction and confusion around the implementation of this program. more than anything, this report shows how vague policy
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guidelines like the ones you described can really lead to life-altering decisions for people, including kids trying to enter the u.s. to seek asylum. >> was there accountability for any of this? >> it's unclear. at this point there's nothing ? >> it's unclear. at this point there's nothing that i'm aware of, but like you said, dhs has said that the further that the new iteration of mpt remain in mexico will take into account people with as a rule vulnerabilivulnerabiliti >> i couldn't stop thinking about your own reporting around stephen miller, around what was driving these decisions inside of the administration, and so hamed, evening when he says it's surprising the lack of oversight the fact this was completely disorganized. the point was never to do this correctly. the point was just to be as
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cruel as possible. >> exactly. i mean, hamed's reporting speaks for its. this is morally abhorrent on so many levels, and it's not -- unfortunately it's not surprising because of the fact that you had someone like stephen miller who is the architect of a lot of these policy and really played a major role in pushing this policy in the trump administration. you know, and he's somebody who this was -- immigration is never about national security for stephen miller. it's never about actually protecting the united states. it's about cracking down on -- it always was about cracking down on families, and to try to reengineer the demographic flows of people into this country, and that's why we saw a disproportionate impact on law-abided asylum seeking families, people who were arriving at ports of entry or, you know, coming into contact with border patrol to seek asylum because they fear death for their children in their home
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countries. so they've come here seeking refuge, and these policies were designed to traumatize. they were designed as a spectacle of cruelty, as a deterrent strategy to keep people from coming to the united states. >> so the reason that we are talking about this is both because if we don't talk about it there will never be accountability for what happened, but also because remain in mexico as a policy is not completely in our rear view, the biden administration being ordered by a judge to put this program back in place. talk to us about the specific challenges the biden administration is facing in making this work. >> yeah, i mean, this is a program that the biden administration tried to wind down earlier this year, allow people who were previously in the program to enter the u.s. and have a fair shot at asylum. you're dealing with an unprecedented policy, right? people being forced to remain in mexico.
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they're not able to have access to attorneys. it's challenging just to get to the ports of entry to come to the u.s. for their hearings. they're in these very dangerous towns fing kidnappings and rape and murder. it's difficult for the biden administration to implement this program in a way that protects all these people and especially stands by the ideals that they've so often, you know, announced. >> right, jean, and that brings me to some of the politics around this in your most recent piece in which you write, quote, cowardice will pave the way for a trump comeback. make the argument to me that democrats being aggressive, championing immigrants, pushing for immigration reform is not only morally the right thing to do but also politically in line with where they see themselves headed. >> exactly. i mean, so far the democrats
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have largely failed immigrant communities in the united states. they've failed to keep their promises. we saw this under the obama administration who campaigned on the slogan, yes, we can which truly energized latinos to come out and vote for him. they believed that he was going to be a champion for immigrant rights and in the end he ended up deporting more people from the united states than any previous president in our history. so this is a chance for the democrats to prove that they actually truly stand for immigrant rights. and i believe based on my conversations with members of this community, with leaders of this community, that if the democrats were to deliver on this issue, you know, pathway to citizenship for essential workers who kept our economy alive, who kept people alive throughout the pandemic, if they provide this pathway to citizenship to this essential work force, it will energize latinos to come out and vote in levels that we've never seen. i think it would be absolutely a major mistake and would lead to
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a crisis not to do this and to fail once more on their promises on immigration. and hamed's reporting shows that they're really falling short. i mean, just because of the fact that they're going to continue this remain in mexico program. >> jean, i just want to add a point to your analysis there, which is at the same time that there needs to be this pressure on democrats to actually act, you have the absurdity of the republican theater that is happening in the background. i'm sure you saw this, senator ted cruz proposing a plan to establish ports of entry in wealthy parts of new england, which clearly doesn't offer any real solutions. it's just meant to distract and i think that partly articulates what the challenge is, right? it's not just democrats' appetite for getting something done, though that certainly is a question, but also the way in which the right has continued to stoke fear and around this issue. you know i could talk to both of you all day. more american voices in a
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moment. but first, here is a look at what else is coming up on msnbc. >> i'm ayman mohyeldin, and coming up tonight, five veterans on senator kyrsten sinema's advisory council have resigned saying they can no longer stand by as she continues to oppose portions of president biden's domestic agenda. david lucer joins me tonight to discuss his resignation. tune in tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc for ayman. relief spray is the 21st century way to do all three. even touch free. preparation h. get comfortable with it. as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ♪ ♪
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that is all the time i have for today. see you back here tomorrow for more "american voices." for now over to my colleague ayman. >> thank you so much. enjoy the rest of your evening, and good evening, everyone and welcome to "ayman." republicans continue to block any movement on voting rights. so will democrats finally decide to end the filibuster? plus, it's a democratic senator, kyrsten sinema who is blocking movement on president biden's agenda. we're going to speak to a veteran and former sinema adviser who now calls her an obstacle to progress. and despite all of that, a deal may be just around the corner, believe it or not. democrats are expecting a vote on both the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the build back better bill just in time for some key governor races in virginia

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