tv Hallie Jackson Reports MSNBC October 22, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
johnson & johnson is the world's largest healthcare company. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed. joints can be 3-d printed. and there isn't one definition of what well feels like. there are millions. we're using our world to make your world a world of well. there are new signs this afternoon that democrats are closer than ever before to a deal on that massive social spending bill. they're now targeting a vote for next week. speaker pelosi emerging from a white house meeting with president biden saying she's very optimistic, but is a vote next week realistic?
we'll talk with one lawmaker who met with the president this week. >> plus the da says it's too soon to know if charges will be filed in that deadly on set shooting involving alec baldwin. justices set to hear oral arguments on november 1st. what happens to the law in the meantime, and why this law could shape the future of reproductive rights in the nation. i'm garret haake in for ali jackson. monica alba is at the white house and we're joined by punch bowl news co-founder john bresnahan. house majority leader steny hoyer sent out a memo a few hours ago on the spending and infrastructure bills, both of them next week.
so, ali, this sounds like a pretty ambitious time line. what are we learning about where the negotiations stand right now. >> reporter: frankly, garret, we know more about what's in the bill now in a clearer way than at any other point in the process. previously we are running back and forth between each office trying to figure out where they were. it seems like the momentum here over the course of the last few days is more realistic than it's been than at any other point in this process, enough so that as you mentioned steny hoyerhas on the agenda next week the goal of voting not just on the bipartisan infrastructure but also on the larger spending package. here's speaker pelosi today after that meeting at the white house. >> we had a very positive
meeting this morning. i'm very optimistic. >> you feel like a deal is close? >> i think it's very possible. >> reporter: she's saying it's possible. now in terms of what's tangibly in this, that's what's going to matter ultimately to actually get lawmakers to feel like they have enough trust in this framework to actually move onto the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the house. in terms of what's in it you're looking at things like paid leave which has been cut down from 12 weeks to 4 weeks. advocates who i was just speaking with said they feel comfortable with it being at 4 weeks as long as it's expanded out for the duration of this so that firms and companies can't just ignore it for a few years, pay the fines until it lapses out of this bill. other things in here, universal pre-k, the child tax credit for one-year extension. funding for child care centers, unspecified funding, elder care provisions, also looking at things that solve the problem of things left out of this bill. things like free community
college as well as expanded medicaid coverage for things like dental, vision and hearing, those likely aren't making it in this reconciliation bill. so what the president started doing last night he started floating some solutions to that, some stop gap measures. specifically looking at things like possible $800 vouchers for hearing that will take effect or in some ways supplement the efforts they were trying to do on medicare, increasing pell grants which could get them closer to sending more people to community college. so we're starting to see the contours of this. of course nothing is over until it's over, but things are moving more quickly now. i think we're going to have to get our red bulls and coffees for next week. >> the universal pre-k bill i feel like that's the one piece that's never been touched in these negotiations. the white house seems to have these negotiating days behind the scenes and out in the public
trying to sell the plan. that's the case with the vice president on the road in the bronx this afternoon. what's the view from that end of pennsylvania avenue? >> reporter: behind the scenes, garret, the president didn't have anything on his public schedule today during working business hours and that's because according to the white house he was on the phone. so we know obviously all of this is happening in a more behind the scenes fashion because they do want to let his comments last night from the town hall really reverberate and try to get people to understand in his candor the president is trying to reflect also just how intimately he has been involved now at this stage of the negotiations. the press secretary just finished her briefing here, and she didn't want to set any new time lines out, but it does seem all indications and officials here pointed to the fact they want to have a framework at least in place before the president does leave for that trip for europe. now only six days away the press secretary confirming he will
depart on thursday. so time is ticking. and that's why when the president leaves for delaware tonight the press secretary said he won't be off the clock in any manner this weekend. he's going to continue to be in touch with senators manchin and sinema, we understand it, to really hash out what's left to be resolved here. and in terms of the vice president who was traveling, she did say this was a very unique moment, again, trying to underscore the sense of urgency the administration has right now in trying to finalize this so-called human infrastructure bill. listen. >> so i'm here today to ask people to see this moment for what it is and to step up. we can do this. it is the right thing to do. >> reporter: the president did travel as we saw this week, of course, to scranton, pennsylvania. last night he was in baltimore. really notably, though, next week, garret, he's going to have
to craft this message a little bit more for a voter base and a preview perhaps for the 2022 mid-terms when he goes to new jersey on monday and virginia on tuesday in those key gubernatorial elections. i think the way he pitches the plan there in that manner is going to be important there as well. >> and we'll know if they're close if he comes to visit us on capitol hill. right before we came on the air jen psaki was asked about the president's filibuster comments last night. and when she expressed for him at least unusualness to making changes, they're talking about possible changes in the coming weeks potentially to the filibuster or at least changes to the president's position. how realistic is that? >> the president can say whatever he wants about the filibuster. ee doesn't get a vote on it. i mean, you know, look,
activists -- progressive activists have pushed this issue all year, and they've been very thorough on this. they've kind of targeted individual senators on their votes. you know, they lobbied angus king of maine pretty hard. they lobbied john tester pretty hard. but the two stand outs of course are manchin and sinema. and i don't see them going anywhere on this. and i do think that biden kind of gave away the game a bit last night. he talked ability about if he did a filibuster right now he'd lose three votes. he knows there are other senators out there that have concerns. but i think we'll hear a lot of talk of reform about the debt issue coming up and voting rights and other issues. >> the other big thing from the town hall last night that got my attention is when the president was talking about key ways to
fund the agenda that may have be dropped because of kyrsten sinema's position. here's what he said. >> she said she'll not raise a single money in taxes on the corporate side and/or wealthy people, period. >> john, that's a problem. if the floor for this bill is $1.5 trillion, where does the rest of the money come from if not from raising taxes, something that is extremely popular across the rest of the spectrum of the democratic party? >> yeah, well, this has been a big issue of the last 48, 72 hours on the hill. where is sinema on taxes? it's come out she's against increasing individual corporate tax rates. you know, there was a lot of talk about she supports a mark to market proposal which is on investments have to be assessed at their actual value which could raise a lot of revenue. she could be for an international corporate tax or
minimum corporate tax rates. it's still unclear. we did have richie neal, the house ways and means committee chairman, talked to her yesterday and complained kind of, you know, it's the ninth inning here. they're pretty far into this process and for sinema to still be out there on the side lines, that's a problem for democrats. so there's lots of ways to raise taxes that are just not graced. it's whether they're politically acceptable and whether progressives will accept them. >> thank you, ali. sadly we didn't get time to discuss the smu lame game last night. i'm joined now by another member from the ways and means community, she's a democrat from washington state and chair of the centrist new democrat coalition. so congressman, i can't think of a better person to ask here given the reticence from senator sinema here on the tax question. what are your other options to come up with that revenue?
>> well, i think the ways and means committee did a great job. we went to a markup. we had really well thought through policy. and i know chairman neal made the point to the senator about how important for us to make sure we have a policy well-vetted. we'll continue to push that point, my hope is continue to work with the senator and her staff and we can come up with some great solutions on the revenue side, but i think the ways and means legislation is an important template for us to start from. >> if you're talking about still starting from a template, how relisting is the majority's leaders time frame is to get a bill vote next week? >> well, ours is a bill. >> that's true. >> anything we take from there is pretty much ready to go. and frankly, i think that we have the opportunity to move quickly. a lot of the data is out there.
now folks need to decide, and we've had a lot of discussions for a long time. clearly we need 50 votes in the senate. we need 218 in the house, but the president is pushing folks to come to closure, which i think is so, so important. and we need to move because the american people want to see us govern, and this is critical to doing that. we can't help anyone until we get legislation across the finish line. >> when i'm on the hill talking to your colleagues over the last couple of weeks i've heard a lot of frustration about information siloing, who knows what about where who stands on these negotiations? did you hear anything from the president last night you didn't already know in terms of the negotiating positions of democrats involved in this? >> no, we had a great conversation with the president earlier in the week and had a discussion about a lot of the specifics that came up in the town hall last night, and that was a really positive sign because we know that in order to
get to the finish line we have to talk specifics, and so i thought the meetings earlier this week with the president were so important because we were doing that. and that's important progress, and also it's a reason i think we're much closer to getting it done and feel like there's an opportunity for us to get it done very soon. and that's my hope and that's what we're going to continue to push for. >> can you take our viewers inside that meeting a little bit? what was the president's message to you? what was your message to the president? >> well, my message to the president it was on the earlier meetings that we had is we need to make sure we do things well. there's been a lot of discussion about a number, and a number doesn't resonate with someone, they don't know what we're doing, the resources going to impact families. we need to talk about policy and the new dem coalition has always been clear what our policy priorities are, making sure we extend the child tax credit and keep it refundable, making sure
we continue the aca premium subsidies and address the medicaid coverage gap and that we go big on climate. we have always been clear with the president on that, and i think the president has asked folks to come to the table and say what their top priorities are. we have done that from the beginning, and i think that's important. i think he pushed others to come, and now he has taken that feedback and started to put together a piece of legislation. and i want to see the child tax credit extended longer, going to continue to push for that because we need stable, durable policy. but this is an important part of the conversation now is that we are having those discussions and looking at how we land this plane. >> all right, congresswoman, it could be a busy week for both of us next week on the hill. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. all right, more from washington coming up in the show including breaking news from the supreme court. the action justice are taking on that texas abortion law. but first pfizer's out with new data today.
how safe and effective its vaccine is in kids and when shots might start going out. our medical expert is standing by. plus shock and sadness. alec baldwin's first public response to that movie set tragedy as we learn new details about what went wrong. w details about what went wrong. but we lose control. ♪ ♪ ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ and we need insights across our data silos, but how? ♪ if i go there will be trouble ♪ ♪ ♪ wait, we can stay and go. hpe greenlake is the platform that brings the cloud to us. ♪ should i stay or should i go now? ♪ ♪ ♪ wealth is breaking ground on your biggest project yet. ♪ should i stay worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation. wealth is shutting down the office for mike's retirement party. worth is giving the employee who spent half his life with you, the party of a lifetime.
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actor alec baldwin now responding after officials say he shot and killed a crew member and injured another following the firing of a prop gun while on set. the actor saying he's fully cooperating with local police investigating the incident. the shooting killed cinematographer elena hutchens. the director also hurt put nbc news confirming this afternoon he's since been released from the hospital. he was on location in santa fe, new mexico, filming his latest movie, a western. so what are we hearing from authorities and from the actor now following this incident?
>> this statement was the first we heard from him of course a sad message sharing his feelings with the family and of course like you mentioned he is cooperating with the authorities saying his heart is broken for her husband, their son and all who knew and loved helena. we also know the district attorney's office has released a statement. they're saying the case is still in its preliminary state of investigation. they're also assisting the santa fe county sheriff's office. they are leading this investigation. they're offering their support. and they also note at this time they do not know if charges will be filed. now, about the details of the incident we know very little. we don't know exactly what happened with the prop gun, the type of ammunition that was inside of the prop gun, if one was fired or not. so those are the details that people are trying to find out. we know there was an internal
memo with one of the unions that represents some of the workers that describe some details, but we've not been able to confirm the details in that internal memo. so this information is still to be shared by the authorities. we also have learned some more details from the director of photography who we see in these images hutchkens who was originally from europe, worked as a journalist, moved to los angeles to pursue her career in hollywood. and just days before the shooting -- before the accident, that is, she see shared a photo on horses on this ranch enjoying her days saying she was able to do that on her day off just before this tragedy happened, garret. >> such a sad, strange story. thank you. now to covid and a new study from pfizer on their vaccine's effectiveness in younger children. finding the dosage used for kids age 5 to 11, which is about a third what's used for adults is
around 90% effective from protecting them from symptomatic infections. with me now is msnbc medical contributor dr. ven gupta, pulmonologist and affiliate professor. let's start with this pfizer vaccine study on kids. i know a lot of parents are going to be asking not just about the effectiveness of the shot but what the potential risks or side effects are for younger people. do we have any insight into that from this new study? >> good afternoon, garret. in fact we do. for everyone watching that has a kiddo less than 12 that's wonder whether they should get their kids vaccinated, this is important reassuring news today this data. 1,500 kids in this study got the vaccine and 700 got the placebo. a third of the adults as you mentioned, garret, and 16
individuals less than 12 in that placebo group that testing positive for covid, three that got the vaccine out of 1,500 or so ended up getting covid. so that's 90 plus percent effective at just presenting a positive test, mild symptoms. for parents out there wonder what about the adverse event profile? nobody that got the vaccine, that third of the adult dose ended up having myocarditis, that inflammation of the heart a lot of parents are wondering about. nobody did. which is reel a good because it means we've arrived at that dose that's effective and safe even in preventing these rare and mild symptoms. >> that's fantastic news. so when this review comes out today what are you looking for there? >> well, i think -- i suspect they're just going to go ahead and green light it for less than
#. >> interesting. >> because they're looking at the data we went ahead and we talked about meaning then it's going to be kicked if the fda advisory committee says let's go ahead and green light it. it's going to get kicked up to the cdc and they'll have their process the first week of november. i think the question then ultimately will be how we message the parents. so those conversations with pediatricians is going to be vital to build trust because now 30% or so parents said they're going to immediately get their kids vaccinated. 70% are saying maybe they're going to wait and see. part of that are saying no way. so we really have a messaging challenge in front of us, and parents need to understand, garret, that 4% -- in some states 4% of all covid hospitalizations are accounted for by children. that's a pretty large number. 16% of all the cases in the u.s. since the beginning of the pandemic are amongst children, so this is not sparing children. >> one more quick question for you. a lot of folks are becoming eligible now six months out to
get those booster shots. the cdc allowing for the mix and match approach. what's your advice to people wondering whether they should get a third shot of their original flavor of vaccine or to mix it up? what are we learning about, you know, the best health strategy for these booster shots? >> i'll quickly say that this is not a new approach. our friends across the ponds in england and elsewhere have been doing this for many months now. so this is not new. i'm glad we finally cleared it. i encourage all of your viewers to get a different brand of the vaccine. the body likes that quick confusion, it turns out, garret. it's very safe to do so. but your body actually produces more antibodies, more protection levels if it gets a different version, different brand of the vaccine. so if you had two doses of pfizer go ahead and get that half dose of the moderna, if you're otherwise healthy or understand the age 65 group. if you got j&j -- and my opinion
is to get an mrna booster, to not get that j&j booster as a second shot. >> i've got to say how refreshing it is to be talking about good covid news with you. we're headed outside the beltway to one key senator's home state. how folks back out in west virginia think joe manchin's doing here in washington. but first the kornacki cam is back. steve is at the big board breaking down some new early vote numbers for virginia's race for governor spelling out some potentially new warning signs for democrats. stay with us. ntially new warnin for democrats. stay with us ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.
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if you followed the first impeachment of donald trump you'll remember this name, but just in there is now a guilty verdict against former rudy giuliani associate lev parnas. parnas has been found guilty of federal campaign finance criminal charges. prosecutors accuse parnas of hatching a scheme to funnel millions of dollars in funds from a wealthy russian financier in the u.s. elections. parnas previously played a role in that first impeachment of former president trump having helped you'll yawny in an effort to dig up dirt on then-candidate joe biden in ukraine. moving on it seems as we get closer to election day the poles
keep getting tighter in virginia. early voting is happening across the state in the highly contested governors race days away. that race has serious implications nationally for both parties. president biden set to join the trail for a second time early next week. without any other major competitive races this cycle, that election is seen as the first real electoral test of the biden presidency and could give us an early preview of the mid-terms with democrats control of washington on the line. it's a good time to bring in steve kornacki who is back at the big board for us. so, steve, what are we learning about exactly how close this race is going to be? >> yeah, garret, i mean there have been some close polls lately, and if you average them all together, terry mccauliffe
still leads but it's a narrow lead. this is the one democrats like, virginia over the last generation virginia in the 21st century has been getting more and more plu. you can see presidential elections here culminating joe biden last year with a double digit victory in the state over donald trump. it's obviously why mccauliffe's campaign spends so much energy trying to connect duncan to donald trump. the other trend, though, in virginia is this. it's a modern curse of politics in virginia. the party that controls the presidency that's what you're seeing here going all the way back to 1977, the party that's controlled the white house almost always has lost the virginia governor's race. you could see it right here going back to 1977, jimmy carter, a democrat was the president. republicans won the
governorship. that trend is sort of the opposition party winning in virginia, we see it over and over again with one exception, actually in 2013, barack obama the democrat was the president and actually a democrat, terry mccauliffe, remember he won nar low. ken cuccinelli was his opponent. he barely won. obviously republicans glen yuncan trying to present a more moderate image remember what happened in to 2013. joe biden himself hovers over this race. this is how we look at the virginia race as you mentioned kind of a prelude to the mid-terms. biden right now just under 43% his approval rating nationally, and in virginia which again he carried by 10 points last year over donald trump, there's biden's average approval rate in those polls we've been looking at, 45% in the commonwealth of virginia. so, yes, it's gotten bluer and bluer, but democrats now face a
set of circumstances here. they control the presidency. the president isn't that popular in virginia. they control the house. they control the senate. in the past that has been trouble for a party in a virginia governor's race. it's why the polls are so close right now, garret. >> northern virginia, those d.c. suburbs always come in late, keeps democrats sweating to the very end even of elections they tend to win big. it's going to be an interesting night. thank you. >> you got it. and we're also keeping an eye on virginia's neighbor, west virginia, where senator manchin has become either a linchpin or the snag. his big sticking point has been climate change. those climate change provisions already getting trimmed down in the social spending package. manchin looks like he's probably the only senator holding out that portion of the plan. west virginia is second among the 50 states in coal production and seventh in natural gas production according to the
nourks, but also a state facing growing risks from climate change. nbc's cal perry is in charleston, west virginia. so what more can you tell us about how these local factors might be influencing senator manchin's thinking on the climate policy pieces of this bill? >> reporter: i mean there's no question they are. and you're talking about a state as you pointed out with a rich history with goal that for all the right reasons needs to move away from coal. on the infrastructure package he's all in and that's because virginia badly needs that infrastructure, we're talking about roads and bridges. but this climate is a hard one. west virginia has been hit hard by climate change. we've had those floods that killed 23 people, and add to that we've had droughts in every single part of west virginia's county. i had a chance to speak to a democratic state representative about it. take a listen. >> you talk to climate scientists and what they've been predicting as the impacts of climate change in west virginia
has been what we've seen in our new weather patterns the last 10 or 20 years. we've seen more frequent more intense storms and the flooding that comes along with those storms. and that's what science says is going to happen. that's what we've seen. it's killed people. it's destroyed businesses and communities, and our infrastructure is not built to handle it. >> reporter: west virginia in many ways is where all these other states are, right? where you have, garret, possibly the right thing to do not being the most popular thing is that a part of the identity politics here in west virginia. >> fascinating stuff. cal perry in charleston, thank you very much. and up next, we'll break down the supreme court's order today on the texas abortion law with justices now set to take it up in just a matter of days. plus why fewer and fewer students from china are coming to study in american universities in a potentially multibillion dollar impact. multt when you're driving a lincoln, stress seems to evaporate into thin air.
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the supreme court is now putting that controversial texas abortion law on its fast track. justices are adding the case to their calender on november 1st and leaving the law in effect while they consider its constitutionality. i'm joined now by justice correspondent pete williams. pete, talk us through what questions the court is actually trying to look at here on november 1st. >> two questions, two cases. one is filed by abortion providers in texas. it basically says texas cannot structure a law this way to take away the constitutional rights of women but then fob off the enforcement of the law to private actors. that's the main challenge. it's the challenge to the structure of the law. the other is whether the federal government has the legal right to file its own challenge to the law. the justice department is suing. texas says, sorry, the federal government doesn't have the legal authority to sue us.
congress has to specifically grant it. the justice department says, no, that's not right. we have the authority, supreme law of the land when a constitutional right is challenged a state wants to take it away. we can step in and challenge. and so those are the two cases the court will hear on november 1st and then of course there's the big abortion case from december in mississippi that would ban abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy. in the meantime the court has declined to put a hold on the texas law. >> and pete, you know, we talk about hearing this case quickly in supreme court terms this is very quick to hear it. but when might we see a decision? >> absolutely right. the court totally put the pedal to the metal on agreeing to take this case so quickly. rapid fire briefs that will have to be filed in the coming days. but after it's heard there's no expedited review of the case beyond that. so it could be months, and i just don't know whether the court is going to try to decide
this case before it decides the mississippi case or will do them all as a package or what. i mean they won't put them all together for the decision because they're all three separate legal arguments. but you know one way to look at this, garret, might be the texas case sort of moved the goal posts for the supreme court because it's so extreme in terms of state law restrictions on abortion. it's basically shut abortion down in the state. but now if the supreme court would have somehow uphold the mississippi law by saying, for example, that banning abortion after 15 weeks is not an undue burden because 95% of abortions are performed by then anyway, then maybe it could uphold the mississippi laws, strike down the texas law and that would appeal more to the court's moderates possibly without overturning roe v. wade. so that's just one way, one possible way to look at this. >> a very consequential term ahead for reproductive rights. pete williams, thank you. and taking you now inside
our nation's universities as part of our behind the wall series. chinese students make up the largest share of international enrollment in american colleges and universities. in the 2019, 2020 school year there were 370,000 students from china enrolled in america's higher ed institutions. that makes up about 35% of all foreign attendees. now, that number is in sharp decline now due to issues from the global to the local keeping those students away. i want to bring in an nbc correspondent live outside for us in southern california, and emily, you spoke to students and staff who are watching that steep decline in chinese applications to american schools. what are you learning? >> reporter: well, really a conglomerate of issues coming into lay mere from 2019 to 2020 as you mentioned we saw the number of chinese students studying in the u.s. decline by nearly a fifth, researchers largely blaming that on the pandemic. but some are saying this may be a bigger picture thing than
that, more so a shift in how chinese students are viewing education in the u.s. for a variety of reasons from anti-asian hate to geopolitical tensions. amy arrived from china this summer to pursue a masters degree at usc. stanley hong, a freshman undergrad is also new. >> i like this school a lot. i've made a lot of friends. >> reporter: together they and their chinese classmates make up the largest group of foreign students currently in the u.s., but their presence is shrinking. there was a severe largely anticipated drop of international students at the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, but this year applications from foreign students started to rebound up 9% while chinese student applications fell by 18%. the luster of higher education in the states arguably fading amid a spike in anti-asian hate, rising tensions between the two countries and the pandemic. at home in china has there been any concern about you coming over here?
>> yes, definitely. they're worried about my safety issue, worried about the anti-asian hate issue and worried about covid. >> reporter: international students can be a lifeline to many colleges and universities. chinese students pay an estimated $15 billion in living fees and tuition a year, nearly the same expense the u.s. spent on developing the covid vaccine. >> i have to pay tuition which is like $60,000 per year. we're coming here for the opportunities so the cost can be covered in the long run. >> reporter: but there's more than just money changing hands, chinese students create an exchange of culture and ideas that benefit both countries. >> you want the best and the brightest to come to the united states to enrich the intellectual discussion on this campus and across the country. >> reporter: clay is the director of the u.s.-china institute at usc. he said relations between the two countries are at their lowest point in half a century. >> that's what makes it especially important for us to
foster this person to person discussion. >> reporter: she's seen the deteariation in relations throughout her eight years tud yg here. >> many friends of mine will consider going back to china. >> reporter: another thing to consider, china's youth population dwindling at a fairly fast clip. the fertility rate there is now about 1.3 births per woman which is well below the number of children needed to meet what china's current population is at. garret? >> really interesting stuff. emily for us at usc. thank you. and coming up an early sneak peek at peacock's new original documentary from executive producers brad pitt and henry lewis gates, jr., a look at how americans across the country tell different stories of the same civil war. >> when we look at southerners and how they try to twist the narrative of what happens, i
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the peacock documentary civil war dives into how teachers, how families, and historians handled the most divisive moment in american history generations later. take a look. >> since the '60s, i have been proving myself. and there comes a point in life when you say, i'm done. it's on them now. because i know i'm okay. so the way i look at it is your loss. i don't intend to spend all of my life proving to white people that i'm okay. >> america is kind of like a big family that tore itself apart during the civil war. and in order to make peace, we told ourselves a certain story about it. and for a long time, we had trouble telling the difference between that story and the truth. >> i was raised in a racist family, racist community at the time, in which i grew up.
things have changed in a good bit now, but for me, i think i don't want to repeat that. i feel responsibility. with the profession that i have chosen, to they will things accurately, and to not repeat generational incorrectness with my own family. >> that last voice you heard there was missy jones, a professor at the mississippi college. she joins me now. professor, thank you for being here and for being so open andn talking about your own past and your own story in all of this. talk to me about how your work as a historian now intersects with the mission of this documentary here "civil war". >> it's perfect, because i, in the documentary, get to talk about the ways in which
especially reconstruction history and these racial massacres in the south have been mistold in the past by historians. and then get to play a role in telling the truth through my own profession ask. this is a perfect intersection of the two. >> it is funny. i went to a public high school in texas. i remember distinctly learn being the civil war, but reconstruction was like two lines about radical republicans. it is not something that was i had withly discussed. there is a scene in the documentary where a woman named deborah whose great great grandmother survived a race massacre. >> i'm thinking about missy. when i first met missy, she said the first word that came oust her mouth was, [ bleep ], and her parents were so proud of her when she said that word. because that meant that you knew you were superior to somebody else. >> i mean, this is intense
stuff. how did you go from that upbringing, from parents who wanted you to have a sense of racial superiority to the person you are now? and talk to me about the role of education in that, since that's so much of what with your talking about here. >> absolutely. i think a lot of it had to do with going to a public school as well here in mississippi that while it had a small african-american population, those were my friends. so i couldn't understand what some of the things i was being told at home were, and who my friends were at school. it started there very basically for me. and then just not wanting to repeat the same with my own children. and my profession allowsly a wind into understanding the past so that i can then propel that forward for other children and youth. >> the symbols of that time are still so present today. i wonder what went through your mind when you saw, you know, the
january 6th insurrection with the confederate flag being carried, displayed inside our capitol. how do we confront those symbols again based on your work on this history and on education here? >> absolutely. i think for me -- and i speak as a white person, right, and especially to other white southerners, we have he got to be willing to talk about the ways we were raised in the past or the ways we were raised n those homes and then have the discussions with our friends who happen to be african-american or who happen to be white and be open in those exchanges. that's how that piece of that documentary that you shared just a moment ago came out and i did not feel i could edit that out of the piece. >> no, absolutely no. . thank you for your time and your candor and your involvement in this documentary. for much more, catch "civil war"
this subat 10:00 eastern here on msnbc. that's going to do it for me. thank you for watching this hour of hallie jackson reports. "deadline: white house" starts right after this quick break. ak it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business.
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