tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 22, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
satanic communists. and they want to rule over us, and it's not going to happen. it is never going to happen? them >> any national democrat who is tempted to dismiss any of it as french, would be well counsel to look back at what was considered french just five years ago. and for those of you playing our home game, you can simply google the famous frog boiling experiment. that is our broadcast for this thursday night, with our thanks for being here with us, on behalf of all our colleagues at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. nbc news goodnight. tonight on all in, the house votes to hold steve bannon in contempt. >> if you act deliberately, with sneering cavalier contempt for the american people, we will hold you in contempt. >> congressman jeremy raskin on the high stakes decision for
the justice department. then, beaten by the trump mob on january six, metropolitan police officer michael fanone joins me exclusively with reaction today's big vote >> i'm glad that they voted to enforce the subpoena, i want accountability. >> the lieutenant governor of texas offered a big reward to find voter fraud. i >> set this up shannon to mirror crime stoppers. >> tonight, the lieutenant governor of pennsylvania over how one of his constituents is finally collecting a check. >> my dude owes me at least $2 million. >> when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, today the house of representatives voted to refer one of donald trump's closest allies, steve bannon, to the department of justice for possible criminal contempt charges. bannon, who is the chief
executive officer of trump's 2016 campaign, and then's went out to serve as chief strategist, and chief counselor to the president, has justified a subpoena to the committee, investigating january 6th. the vote was bipartisan, nine republicans joining all democrats voting yes, it was liz chan 80 wyoming, adam kinzinger of illinois, peter meijer, and fred upton of michigan, john have to have new york, he initially negotiated the bipartisan deal to investigate the insurrection that was then sort of rejected by republican leadership after he struck the deal. anthony gazelles of ohio, once in a bin coming republican now retiring partly because of the maga hordes. jamie herrera beutler of washington, all voting to impeach donald trump last year over the insurrection. nancy mace, and brian fitzpatrick over pennsylvania
also voted yesterday. interesting lee, the brother of former vice president mike pence, who you might recall was the subject of the hang mike pence chance, who had to flee for his safety on january 6th. his brother did not vote. the vast majority of republican members of the house, 202 of them, voted to allow steve bannon to skirt a congressional subpoena, congressman jim banks of indiana issued this to his by party. >> the select committee's engagement unconstitutional, political investigation, a sham investigation conducted by a sham committee. that refuses to answer to real questions about what happened on january 6th. i urge all of my quiet colleagues to make the moral vote, do the right thing. i urge you to vote for the rule of law, for the institution of congress and against the select committees dangerous abuse of
congress's oversight authority. >> now, let's remember who we are talking about here, who the subjects of this contempt filing is. last year, in august, steve van and was arrested on a 35 million dollar yacht, named a lady may. belonging to a chinese billionaire, who is apparently chilling out. he was charged with defrauding donald trump die hard supporters, the kind of people who would donate their money to an online scheme, allegedly, to help build the wall at the southern border, it's called we build the wall. the fundraising effort collected more than $25 million, and prosecutors said steve bannon used more than 1 million of it for personal expenses. and just to be clear, those personal expenses were not him building the wall, they were just him doing his thing. and then after the election, in the lead up to january 6th, we know the bannon was involved in donald trump's insurrection pulp. he plotted to overturn the
election, he spoke to trump week before the attack on the capitol, encourage him to focus on january six, that's the date when the electoral votes would be admitted and counted. then it was also present on a meeting on january 5th at the willard hotel, held to try to persuade members of congress to block the certification of the election. i'm not saying they've and made these damning comments on his podcast. >> listen, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's going to be moving, it's going to be quick. >> in a special extra podcast episode, because he is a hardworking podcast or, on the evening of january 5th, bannon described it was coming in even more detail. >> this is going to be very controversial, we are going into uncharted waters, we're going to do something that's never happened before in american history, tomorrow it's going to be something that is going to be minute by minute, hour by hour, what happens, the
stakes can be higher. >> now then, remember, having been nabbed on the chinese billionaires yacht and accused by the government, indicted by the government of defrauding die hard trump supporters, and still facing of 8 to 40 years in prison for fraud. then it was saved by trump's pardoned on the very last day in office. of course, that parted did not cover banister on the insurrection. today's referral from nine republicans and all of the house democrats, goes to the house of justice, where there will decide to charge steve bannon with contempt. for some historical context, the last time the doj prosecuted sondland for contempt of congress, was nearly four decades ago, back in 1983 when reagan administration official with the environmental protection agency, refused to testify before about her management of a hazardous waste cleanup fund. and the congress voted unanimously to try her for contempt, there's precedent but
you guys you can tell it's pretty rare, it's now to merrick garland's department to decide what's next for stephen. congressman gerry me raskin who's a democratic artisan in maryland, who issued that subpoena to steve bannon last month. today's vote came down, roughly where i thought it was. the way if i had to give over under, probably a few more republican votes than i would've guessed. what did you think? >> yeah, there are definitely more republican votes than i was expecting. given that kevin mccarthy was whipping the vote very hard, to try to get everybody on the side of not issuing the criminal contempt referral from bannon. so, i was pleased that there are both a number of people on the republican side who had voted to impeach donald trump, also in this group, but there are also some new ones like nancy maze from south carolina who is my counterpart on the oversight subcommittee on civil
rights and several liberties. she just said she believes in the rule of law, and how can congress, with a straight face, go forward in ever issue is subpoenas again, if we're not gonna see anybody else subpoenaed. some more power to these people who stood by the rule of law. >> yeah, nancy made statement basically making a point, which i thought it was a good one, if you have a privilege you want to assert, an immunity want to assert, you've got to come down and assert it. that the sort of going out of his way to, as i think you said on the floor, the show is contempt for the subpoena, was essentially an insult to the institution of congress. i thought that was well put, by her. >> that's the way it works, you know, if you get subpoenaed by a court, or by congress, to come down and testify. you think you might have a thick mound of privilege against self incrimination at some point, you take all of the questions, start with what is your, name what is your address, and so on. when you get to a question where you think might incriminate yourself, as to a
bank robbery, or an insurrection, or whatever, you plead the fifth amendment, you say i assert my privilege. at that point, the committee has an option, will the committee just accept that, or we will give you use immunity, saying you've got to testify, will guarantee that nothing you testify about will be used against you. >> so whose offices the sitting in right now, this referral? >> it's at the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, and the statute can be read, to either give them some flexibility, or the way jim jordan right it's, or the lowest order contempt, the u.s. attorney must go before the grand jury to demand an indictment. and, we think it's very likely given the gravity of this matter is so overwhelming, and the facts are so clear that he just blew us off, that we think
that the department of justice will move forward, of course we're not putting all of our eggs in one basket, because we are continuing to do whatever we need to do to obtain his testimony, as we've compelled it. >> what is the timeline, of your understanding of the timeline, this seems like once again we're in a situation where there is the law, and then there is the timeline of the investigation, and the obvious thing that donald trump, steve bannon and all these people like to do, is just delayed until it's essentially, you can't keep doing it, or it's too long in the future to have much import. >> no, we won't tolerate perpetual denial here, we're collecting evidence every single day, the vast majority of people that we reached out to, or testifying voluntarily, our meeting with the committee, they're doing interviews, we're picking up lots of information about everybody and everything, and our goal of course is to present a comprehensive detailed portrait of the events of january six, the causes of january 6th, and then we need to do to prevent this from ever
happening again, we're certainly not going to let anything drag on for eight months, nine months, ten months, nothing like that. we are on a much more rapid timetable, if you think about it, what could be a more important issue than the safety of congress, and the security of democracy itself, moving into the future. and, the way we see it, this insurrection slash coup, is really still going with the big lie. just today, president trump issued a statement asserting that the insurrection was on november 3rd. the day of the election is what he's calling the insurrection, and again to further confuse people, and to claw the issue. that demonstrates we're in continuing danger. >> speaking of which, there is a strange moment today in the halls of congress, that i saw you speak to, and i just wanted to get firsthand from you, i wish marjorie taylor greene, who is a freshman congressman from georgia, of course, who doesn't have any committees,
she tweets a lot i guess. she approached you and liz cheney, i believe, what happened? >> first she started shouting at me, when are you going to start investigating the violence at black lives matter protests, i said you know we really should look into kyle rittenhouse and the two people he killed, and the other by aligns that were jammed up -- against black lives matter. and then she began to mix it up, i couldn't follow all of it, obviously it's been a continuing conversation there, the part that i caught was when congresswoman greene was saying something to the effect of, she never said that about jewish space lasers, that was made up by the media. >> i just want to be clear here, she never used the phrase jewish space lasers, she said that the california wildfires may have been started by space lasers, possibly under control
the what rothschild family. just to be clear on what she said there. just want to be sure that claim is clear. >> i think she is pressing that same point. >> people should know what she said. >> final thing, is it a bit, is she doing a world wrestling he'll thing, what's the deal? we >> i mean, it's hard to know, she seems to be it spired by a lot of the qanon mythologies and stories that are out there. and, she certainly had a lot of contempt, herself, for liz cheney. liz cheney has become a hero to millions of americans by her constitutional patriotism, by the fact that she standing up for the rule of law, far beyond a particular political party, or a particular political leader. but i think that her colleagues in the republican conference, are recording her with great
duration, and can temps right now. they're basically seeing her as the anti trump, you could choose trump or you could choose liz cheney. >> congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you so much chris. >> metropolitan police officer michael fanone has been outspoken on is that to get some accountability for the attack on january six, not just themselves were beaten in tasers by the mob before hundreds of other officers there today. i want to talk to him about that house vote today see, what he thinks about the house investigation today, -- on trump's behalf, that interview, next. trump's behalf, tha interview, next. interview, next. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script.
experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq. i've been telling everyone... if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. the secret to great teeth is having healthy gums. crest advanced gum restore. detoxifies below the gumline... and restores by helping heal gums in as little as 7 days. metallic and police officer
michael fanone says he could tell based on the tenor of the speeches from former president donald trump and his allies on january six that it was going to be a difficult day. but he was not expecting a violent insurrection, during which an angry mob would turn pullman to the crowd beat him under the -- blue lives matter flag and repeatedly tased him at the base of his skull. well, on officer polon is doing well both physically and mentally. -- has exasperated by politicians who refused to acknowledge the severity of what transpired. >> what makes the struggle harder, and more painful, is to know so many of my fellow citizens, including so many of the people i put my life at risk to defend our downplaying
or outright denying what happened. i feel like i went to hell and back to protect them and the people in this room. but too many are now telling me that hell doesn't exist, or that hell actually wasn't that bad. the indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful! wow. >> and metropolitan police officer michael fanone, joins me now. it's good to have you back, and i wanted to first get your reaction to the vote today. voting to issue the subpoena for steve bannon who sort of just thumbed his nose of the committee. nine republicans voting yes, all democrats voting yes, and 209 republicans voting no. what do you think of that? them >> well, i'm glad that they voted to in force the subpoena. i mean, i'm coming at this from
a law enforcement perspective, and we serve subpoenas pretty frequently. we certainly don't need to take a vote of what the entire, i don't know, do you see, u.s. attorney's office, or the metropolitan police to office, to come to the conclusion that a subpoena needs to be enforced. i mean, i feel bad for the members of the committee that have to go through this kind of circus just to enforce a subpoena. but >> it's interesting you just said that because i think your point to something that hangs over this entire story. your police officer, and you spend your life and career as a police officer, and policing in america can be a very fraught topic. it can be polarizing in certain ways. and yet, the thing that stands out in this story is a group of people show up to the capitol, violently assault a bunch of police officers, in some cases under a literal blue lives
matter flag, you know, saying that they are there on the side of police against the unruly mobs. i want to show this clip, from the hbo documentary on this, that actually shows this precise moment of you being assaulted underneath a blue lives matter flag. take a look. >> i looked back to my right and mike was gone. what he just wasn't there anymore. [inaudible] ahmaud grabbed him, started pulling him down, and i was just like oh no, this guy is dead. a member of the crowd grabbed me, and i remember hearing them yell out, i got one. [inaudible] you can see that blue lives
matter flags waving over that assault, and i wonder, how do you think about that? when you see that footage, how do you think about -- what how republicans talk about law enforcement and square that with what happened that day and what's happened subsequently. >> i mean, i think this ties into a conversation that i've been having with my colleagues for some quite some time, i don't want police officers to be politicized. none of us to. line forsman does not want to be politicized. unfortunately, we've been pulled into the political arena over the past eight years ten years. and it's been detrimental to to our effectiveness and our
ability to do our jobs. i mean, there are some groups of people that love the police, until they are preventing them from overthrowing the, you know, the capital complex and the government. and there's other people that hate the police, until they need a police officer,,. >> one of the individuals who assaulted you, or allegedly assaulted you i should say, had a court date and his legal team is arguing as a kind of exculpatory argument that he believed he was told by the president the united states to do this. the legal team of the trump supporter who chased a d.c. metropolitan officer michael fanone during the january 6th and direction claimed he was acting upon former president donald trump's authorization.
that, of course, a grain of salt claim, it's illegal claim, but i wonder when you think of that. >> i mean, i don't want to comment on the specifics of any of the criminal investigations, that are taking place, specifically those in which i might be called as a witness. but i mean i watch the documentary and it seems to be a common theme, or a common thread, amongst individuals that participated in the insurrection at the capitol building that day. that they were acting under the orders of, or felt that they had been directed and ordered by the president of the united states. in my opinion, you are still responsible for your actions. whether you felt like you were authorized or not, ultimately you're responsible for your actions. if i receive an order, that
i.d. or feel to be unlawful, and i choose to carry out that order as a police officer, i'm still responsible for the outcome. >> you are back on the force, the metropolitan police department, i know that you had some leave after what had happened and i'm just wondering how you're doing? >> wow i mean in some respects i'm glad to be back, i'm still on a limited duty, i'm looking forward to returning to the full duty status. getting back to work. some >> have you i'm, wondering what you have learned from the experience that you've gone through, which has been not one that you anticipated from the moments that you where there are in that crowd, to the aftermath, your testimony before the house committee,
your -- the friendship that you formed with a lot of those capitol police officers that were there that day, and how you think about what's taken place in the last nine months that you now had a little time to sort of process at all. i mean, i can tell you one thing, i've learned that i've got no taste for politics or the political arena, i've always kind of been a noble showed kind of guy and it seems to me like the only thing that our elected leaders do well is bush it. so, you will not see me run for any elected office, whether that's deputy or or congress. you know, i enjoy being a police officer. what i feel bad for my
colleagues at u.s. capitol police, a lot of effort has been put into analyzing the failures of the day, whether it was you know, their leadership within the department, command structure but i think that a lot of the officers don't feel like the law, you know, recommendations there have been put into place. i hope that those officers are afforded the re-resources, training and man power that they need to accomplish their mission. and i also hope that there is a change in the leadership bought structure of the department. last question for you, michael
i, know you've been on capitol hill and tried to meet with, meetings across the aisle. some particularly on the republican side did not want to meet with you, i wonder if any of that's changed, if there's open lines of communication from some of those members who now have unified in the view that the committee, to their mind, it is a partisan witch hunt. >> yeah, i mean again i've talked about, all i want and a lot of my colleagues that i speak with is accountability for that day. me, i want accountability both the micro level, which includes individuals who were criminally culpable further actions on january 6th. lawmakers whose rhetoric's may have incited, or maybe they could've committed some over action which resulted in the events of january 6th. i want law enforcement to learn
lessons from what happened that day. but on a macro level i want this country to engage in a broader discussion, that's above politics. donald trump ultimately, i don't believe was responsible for bringing us to where we're at, the divisiveness, that exist in this country, he just exploited it for his own personal gain. but if we're not going to have that conversation, we're not going to engage in it honestly, we are doomed to repeat the activities of january 6th. >> officer michael fanone of the metropolitan police department. it's great to talk to you again, i'm glad to see you doing well, a big get to talk to you again soon. >> thank you, sir. >> nearly a year after offering
election, after all the major news let live cited declared joe biden the winner, dan patrick announced an award for up to 1 million dollars to anyone who could find evidence of voter fraud that led to a conviction. this is how we explained it on fox news. >> i set this program up, shannon, to mirror crime stoppers, and crime stoppers, their people out there who didn't want to come forward over a major crime, until there is a little incentive. so i believe there are people who have a lot of information involved in voter fraud, look at wisconsin, look in michigan, look at pennsylvania, look at georgia, and if they come forward and leads to an arrest
and a conviction, i put 1 million dollars from my campaign from, i'll give them a minute minimum of $25, 000, depending on how severe the cases, maybe someone will get a whole million. >> you can see the insidious and toxicity of the big lie right away, just to be clear, patrick was i was prepared to take 1 million dollars the texas had donated for him to reelection, for some election version of dog the bounty hunter, nelson cheating democrats. he found a taker in the democratic lieutenant governor john fetterman, sediment relentlessly trolled patrick with examples of republicans can sit committing voter fraud, that a fox news host read a tweet to dan patrick himself. >> you have offered up 1 million dollar fund for people who are able to come to you with proven cases of fraud, while the pennsylvania
lieutenant governor your counter part he wants to take up on that. hey governor patrick, it's a kind of part in pennsylvania, i like to collect your handsome reward for reporting voter fraud. i got a dude in 44 pennsylvania who, tried to have is dead mom vote for trump. i'd like mine and sheets gift cards please. p.s. the cowboys blow. i'm sorry, he added that part. >> just a few days after that happen, the few instances of voter fraud that had happened in pennsylvania were committed by trump supporters. >> my dude owes me at least $2 million, we had two instances of voter fraud in pennsylvania, that involve the republicans having relatives vote for donald trump. one living, one dead we, had it that mom try to vote in lucerne county, and then we had a republican father who voted for trump in chester county, and then left, and then half an hour later he came back grain
sunglasses and he tried to vote for his son who is a democrat. this wasn't the best and brightest. >> despite all that, dan patrick almost made it an entire year without having to make good on his voter fraud bounty offer, until now. that republican father who tried to vote for his democratic son in pennsylvania, that fetterman told rachel maddow about back in november. the dallas morning news reports that it was turned in by a progressive poll worker called eric frank from pennsylvania, that is how the first and only lieutenant dan voter fraud bounty was paid to a democrat for uncovering voter fraud by republican. the spokesman for dan patrick declined to comment, the paper of the payout. the texas governor of pennsylvania joins me now. well, what do you think? i guess you did it. you helped get it done. >> well, i mean he, still needs to make it rain in pennsylvania.
we have a total of five cases, four involve deceased mother's motive for the former president. and then the wind that my colleague peyton handsome roy to was the returns of sunglasses case, a living father voted for his democratic son. by our calculations we have four more cases that were convictions, they all are on probation now. so it would seem to me besides there is some more rewards the need to be paid out. >> yeah 100 k by my quick math. here is a thing to that i think is really brilliantly exposing about this. how many votes do cast in pennsylvania? >> nearly 7 million during that election, and that's what's already just about it. five cases out of almost 7 million ballots cast. you have a greater chance of actually winning the lottery, then encountering genuine voter
flood during the election. >> this is the point, i think, i think people watching this probably know this already. what you see and wet dan patrick was trying to do, is cultivate this notion that there's widespread thing that's happening, all over the place. and people are afraid to bring it up, it's of course become kind of cannon for conservatives and moderate folks of this is the case. and when you actually really bear down, and when you really incentivize people to go find it, out of 7 million votes cast you end up with five in pennsylvania, who all committed the fraud on behalf of donald trump. >> it's a startling statistic to realize, that of the 7 million ballots only five are fraudulent, it also happens to be hilarious that there are all uniformly for republicans, voting for president trump. when the reverse of the narrative was constantly fight against democrats that were cheating.
in pennsylvania, 7 million jump ballots cast, 5 million ballots for president trump, they work all caught, arrested, convicted, and now they're all on probation. so we're batting 1000 in terms of stamping of voter fraud in our state. and as a result, joe biden still won by more than 80,000 votes. >> the texas governor, greg abbott, the position of secretary of state in texas had been unfilled, and unlike -- its imported by the governor, he appointed a lawyer named john scott to be the texas secretary of state who is part of donald trump's team trying to block this certification of pennsylvania's election. what do you think about someone working on that issue, trying to stop your states votes from counting, now been tasked with running the elections in the same of texas. >> it's like drafting player from a team that went one and 59 the last season. so this wasn't exactly home of,
this was an italian farm that really generated a lot of victory, again one for 59. it does illustrate in my mind that texas isn't serious about actual voter fraud, because when you analyze actual voter fraud it's five cases out of 7 million ballots like it is in pennsylvania. bear in mind, chris, we did to risk limiting audits, one with statistical, generated by law, and when that was 63 out of 67 counties participating, and found zero evidence of any fraud whatsoever. i mean, these results were secure, we know exactly that were true. >> i don't know if you've got $100,000 and sheets gift cards coming your way, pennsylvania lieutenant governor john federal, we will continue to monitor that, thank you very much. >> 50/50 for sheets, 54 wawa. i'm flexible that way. thanks to having me on. >> that's a pennsylvania politician right there. don't go anywhere, michael
use a single hr software? nope. we use 11. eleven. why do an expense report from your phone when you can do it from a machine that jams? i just emailed my wife's social security number to the entire company instead of hr, so... please come back. how hard is your business software working for you? with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com for a free demo.
probably know that i grow up in the bronx. love the borough, my brother luke and i went to public school in the bronx, the elementary school that i went to as called p.s. 83, dolores park neighborhood, it's not noticed donald her school. great place, where i met some lifelong friends, then known as daniel baker, still daniel baker now one of the stars of showtime's uses a marrow, here's a photo of me as a kid with some of my buddies at the time, p.s. 83, and i'm the kind of bon jovi do with my friends richard and chris and john. by the way, all three of those guys have lost touch with them, if you're out there, high. here's a class picture from that year, that's me with him blue shirt in the best, looking pretty stylish i gotta say, right mind the sign. well yesterday, the first lady
of the night of states doctor joe biden, he's also an educator, peter surprise visit to biometric school. i found out about it through aoc's instagram, there she is in the back, she also has that district, biden arrived with an arm full of chocolate chip cookies, spoke to teachers, and what is like to work the pandemic. he also honored lynda collins for her 50 years of service in the new york city department of education, which means she was teaching that school back when i was a student there i have to say, as a now public school parent whose mother, my beloved mud there in the administrator in the school system, it's so wonderful to see someone like this get her do. even more wonderful, to have kids back in school this year, i have to say i'm just so, so grateful for the thousands of teachers and staff have made it possible, thank you. , thank you.
john cabin sorrow, trying to chicago to police department in 1995, entering the past years in the police force, back in 2017 he posted this -- with us a sign reading i support my president a second minute. he was suspended for that, but that was not his first disciplinary run in, according to propublica he has been suspended seven times, from
1995 in 2017 for a total of 111 days. just to give some perspective on how rare the suspensions are, only seven other officers who have worked in the department since 1995 have been suspended that many times. he's in very very rare company. the past -- he was elected president of the chicago police union. despite the fact that to chicago police superintendents had independently tried to fire him, and that he is relieved his powers under investigation by the department. and if every of this year he was suspended again, without pay for a laundry list of things, like making obscene and inflammatory social media post, filing a false report, and been in support into supervisors. after the trump mob so storm the re-capitol, it was not the level of violence that we saw across many parts of the country during the black lives matter protests. >> i didn't see any lip literally throwing frozen bottles, bricks, or shooting fireworks of the police.
they were simply trying to push past the police to get access to the building. >> now, that's not accurate as you can all see, he later apologized for that, and now john cat azar is facing off against chicago mayor morey lightfoot, against her requirement that all citizens get vaccinated or get twisted twice a week, until the end of the year when they will all have to be vaccinated. he said we're in america god damn it, we don't want to be forced to do something period, this isn't nazi effing germany, step into the effing showers, the pills won't hurt you, what's the f. he later apologized for that too, the judge's order cat sorrow ordered him to stop making youtube and posts ordering them to defy the post. -- even though coronavirus was the leading cause of death for police officers both this year and in 2020. michael daily, special correspondent for the daily beast has been covering him for
a few years, he just did an interview with celebration gaga police veteran, saying quote chicago police go get fully vaccinated stop listening to all of these four can ropes. michael daily joins me now. >> michael, who is this police officer you talk to the for this piece. >> that here is a rough-and-tumble cop, when i was interviewing him, he struggled to his wife and he said when did i get shawn to the head, she said 90 92, goes 1992. he had shot in the head, he he's encouraged to retire for disability, he's determined to go, back he came back, he got in a car jays involving a kidnapping he got banged up badly in that, and that led to a foot chase where he had a massive heart attack. and then he ended up out on the disability in 2000, so he's probably when he wanted to do was keeping a cop, he loved being a cop.
and there came a day when he's sitting last november, he was sitting in the kitchen, he's sitting there kitchen he's been in a wheelchair on and off, he's disabled he's feeling pretty down, and all of a sudden he reads newspaper about a vaccine trial for johnson & johnson vaccine. he says, this is it, this is what i've been waiting for, because here is a chance to undergo a little risk, and maybe save thousands of lives. it was better than that, that, for real copd he says i'm gonna do this, they're happy to have him because they like to have people is relatively well put together. i'm he's banged up from wrestling people from carbon monoxide poisoning, he's got the bullet wounds, and still recovering from all the injuries from car wrecks. so he's like they're kind of guy, because if he can survive this kind of vaccine anybody can. so he joins the trial, he says
it's double blind or pushy, bowie says i want the real stuff. he says give me the real stuff. then comes the day that they underline the trial, he finds out he got the real stuff, so now he's thrilled, now the vaccine has been approved, and he figures he's going to tell his old cop buddies, and they're gonna say figures jacoby do something like that. and within they would get complementary, because we have done this great thing to save lives, what happens is they called me elaborate. and when he had not known, being outside being a cop, was how much that misinformation and poison kind of filters back into these guys, and how when they feel that there is political divide they, start accepting everything that they view as their side, and start
resisting everything because on the other side. and all of a sudden, he's elaborate. and he's really not happy about the cops that won't take the vaccine. he went through all this trouble to get the vaccine, and they will take? if we that is why you wish, that's what leadership -- that wants to be a cop, wants to protect and serve like it says on the side of the radio car. and the really good ones, that's what they want to do. if you can touch that, you can't get them to do it. and the stuff with the union leaders saying we don't like being told what to do, if you look at the regulations, they've not only got to wear a bulletproof that's, but it dictates the size that the labels had to be, the labels had to be an english, where the labels are placed, i mean everything. they have to wear seatbelts. there's like 9000, those charges he got, those are all things that he they're told to do that he didn't do.
>> there is something remarkable about the backlash to it, precisely for that reason, one because it's about public safety fundamentally. to, we are not talking about a school, this is not a organization where you don't have a lot of rules and regulations and stuff you gotta do. >> the sad thing is that this -- fallen officers honored in washington, and the families of for chicago officers who died of covid where there. so, all this is going on where you got these cops who died of covid, four cops died of covid out of five cops that died in the last year, fort died of covid. there's a couple shot to, death and one were shot in the eye, and you can't say that these cops worse freighted the needle. because you saw the other guy get shot in the eye, they've been making more.
and they're taking their lives in their hands every time they do, but you come to this thing with the vaccine, i don't think it's fear i think it's something else. i think we're all trying to figure out exactly what it is, but it's sad when it affects people that piece, you can read at "the daily beast." michael, thank you so much for coming in. >> thank you. >> that is "all in" on this thursday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. thank you, my friend. very rarely does a politician have to put his money where his mouth is. i can't remember the last time we had a story where a politician made a public bet and they had to pay off when they lost the bet. but that has finally happened.