Skip to main content

tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 21, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

10:00 pm
online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers it's friday eve, which means at xfinity.com/moving. tomorrow's friday. we're gonna do it fast tonight, we're going to see you tomorrow wears actual friday, as top-of-the-line as word with lawrence o'donnell. >> you know how we are discussing the f last night how creatures of the senate, as you put it, are slow involving on changes in senate rules, like the 60 vote threshold, the filibuster rule, there was some public evolving tonight which i actually think has been going
10:01 pm
on right before our eyes from president biden, he said tonight that he absolutely is open to changing that role for voting rights legislation, and he said for other things, and possibly for other things, he also made it very very clear tonight that the reason he hasn't been able to do any of that stuff, or talk about any of that stuff in a detailed way is, that would create for more problems with joe manchin, more problems with senator sinema, more problems with some other moderate democrats, and so he doesn't want to get into that rules fight. until he gets that legislative package done, but he isn't, he's not going to stay out of it once he gets >> his package done. the question is chicken and egg, right? can't get the legislative package done if you talk about those things. if you don't deal with those things, you can't get the legislative package done. i mean, we will see.
10:02 pm
to the extent the legislative package includes voting rights, right, to the extent his priorities include -- anyway. the presidents evolution on this is important. >> the legislative package i'm referring to is the reconciliation bill which bypasses that whole 60 vote threshold. he's got to get it done. you don't get anything done after that, not a single thing, nothing moves through the senate after that, if you believe that 60 vote threshold in place. >> we will see, i mean, with senator manchin and senator sinema having the kind of leverage they do right now. i mean, we will see what's in that legislative package when it gets to the end of the sausage making process. it feels, to me there's a lot of excitement yesterday and something was going to get done by the end of this week. manchin kind of strolled into the middle of it all, pulls the silverware drawer out, should get oversight, and said i'm not ready to have the spotlight off
10:03 pm
of me. i want those to keep going on and on and on. if the president is waiting for that to happen before everything else moves on, i don't know when that will happen. >> there is some noises tonight indicating there could actually be a deal tomorrow, and possibly something of a breakthrough with senator sinema. i will know if there is a deal tomorrow, tomorrow. that's what i will know if it's a field tomorrow. and that's for every day from this point forward. >> when it happens, we will turn to you to explain to us whether or not it's real, whether or not it will make a difference in our lives. >> i think it'll be clear to everyone, no explanation from me. it will be a clear deal. >> we will see. >> thank you, rachel. thank you. >> it does appear there could be a major breakthrough tonight and the democrats negotiations to reach an agreement in that biden legislative agenda.
10:04 pm
politico is reporting tonight senator kyrsten sinema has agreed to a revenue package that would include some tax increases on wealthy taxpayers, and would be enough to pay for close to two trillion dollars of the new spending for climate policies, education, childcare, and family leave. a source familiar with the discussions told political, quote, >> the range being discussed is
10:05 pm
two trillion. the range defined by joe manchin as his limit. the statement does seem to represent a shift in senator sinema's position, which had been reported as being opposed to any tax increases in the biden bill. earlier tonight, president biden described senator sinema's position this way. >> she's smart as the devil, number one. number two, she is very supportive of the environmental agenda, and my legislation. very supportive. she supportive of almost all the things i mentioned relating to everything from my family care to all those issues where she is not supportive, she says she will not raise a single penny of taxes on the corporate side and are on wealthy people, period. that's where it breaks down. >> senator sinema's public
10:06 pm
silence about what she is trying to achieve in the legislation has led to what the new york times today called a quote crescendo of anger and pressure that miss sinema is facing from erstwhile allies who say they are perplexed by her recent tactics. we will be joined by one of those allies in a moment, sylvia gonzalez andersh, who added tremendously to the pressure on senator sinema today by being part of a group of veterans who released this ad. >> dear senator sinema, as members of your veterans advisory council, we feel as though we are being used as window dressing for your own image and not to provide council on what is best for arizonans. even pete italy ignored our feedback urging you to act on issues that support our veterans and protect the heart of our nation. we must protect voting rights by passing the freedom to vote act. we are appalled by your failure to address this issue.
10:07 pm
you campaigned on prescription drug prices and opposing the build back better act. are you choosing to answer two big donors rather than arizonans? you are a no-show on the vote to establish a commission to investigate the insurrection. these are not the actions of a maverick. as such, we respectfully resign from your veterans advisory council. sincerely, sylvia gonzalez andersh. >> david. >> dana. >> call on senator sinema to support the build back better act now. >> senator sinema and senator joe manchin have been the only holdouts in the democratic senate on the bill. they would both have to be part of any agreement on a framework for the bill. tonight, joe biden gave the simplest description of the challenge of working with only 50 democrats in the senate. >> look, when you're in the united states senate, and you are president of the united
10:08 pm
states, and you have 15 democrats, everyone is a president. [laughs] every single one. >> today, house speaker nancy pelosi seemed to say the democrats might be able to reach an agreement and basic outlines of the biden social infrastructure bill tomorrow. today, senator jon tester said there could be an agreement tomorrow. >> joe manchin appeared to confirm david cohen's report featured on this program last night, that he was thinking of leaving the democratic party. david corn reported last night on this program,
10:09 pm
>> joe manchin had a colorful response to david corn's reporting, beginning with a capital be. >> i can't control rumors and it is bush it, bush it scalp spelled with a capital be. >> and today, joe manchin said this. >> senator, have you ever had a plan to switch parties? have you ever -- >> know. you, know i will be honest, anything was ever said, we've never -- if i'm an embarrassment to my democratic colleagues, my caucus, the president, the
10:10 pm
democratic leader, chuck schumer, all of that. i said me being a moderate centrist democrat, if that causes you a problem, and switch to be an independent but i'd still be in caucus with the democrats. >> leading off our discussion tonight is former democratic senator of missouri claire mccaskill. she is an msnbc political analyst. clare, we need the senate expertise tonight for this! i want to begin with senator sinema because president biden in his town hall discussion seemed to indicate there was no movement he was aware of or prepared to talk about on tax revenues from senator sinema. now we have this political reporting which indicates there is some possibility of senator sinema being willing to agree to an amount of revenue through various devices that might not involve individual tax rates.
10:11 pm
might involve other things. that seems, if true, to be a way to get there, and to get there soon. >> i think kyrsten sinema has hurt herself by not talking about what she is for. i understand she believes strongly negotiations should occur in private, and she will fully explain her vote when she makes her vote, and it will become a parents but she works for and cares about. in the interim, the vacuum is being filled by a lot of anger towards her. i've been on the phone all day, lawrence, as you might imagine, was a bunch of different senators in my party. i am confident the politico reporting is correct. that she has, in fact, to agree to a number of revenue enhancers in various ways that
10:12 pm
will make this bill be paid for. frankly, now, the problem is some of the details as it relates to joe manchin, particularly around climate. kristen sinema is big on the climate part. she thinks it's the most important part of this bill. joe manchin is still struggling with some of the details. when you've only got 50 as the president said, everybody has power. it's frustrating for everyone, but that's why elections matter, and why margins of majorities that are. i want to remind everyone you don't build greater majorities from bright blue places. you build majorities from places like wisconsin and ohio, and pennsylvania, and north carolina, and georgia, and arizona, and nevada were both democrats and republicans can't get elected. that used to be the case in my state. my state is now firmly read. and all those states, that's how we get more democrats
10:13 pm
elected. that's how we remove this incredible power both manchin and sinema have at this moment. >> and as we go forward, do you think from your sources, today. we heard what jon tester had to say. do you think it's possible there could be some kind of announcement of a general agreement tomorrow? >> i doubt it. i think it's slips to next week. i think terry mcauliffe is probably doing more than he's ever done to help the democrats in washington by having this election looming and people being nervous about a state that had drifted to the firmly blue side. now appearing to be up for grabs. i think everybody is feeling like we've got to get -- they've got to get points on the board before that election. i would anticipate something happening next week. it is thursday. people took off on planes and trains today. they will be talking over the
10:14 pm
weekend. i have a feeling there may be some loose framework pelosi may talk about tomorrow. in terms of an actual bill tax and knowing what's in it? i don't think it'll happen before next week. >> that's impossible. that is days away, at least. what they seemed to be suggesting is tomorrow could be a day where there's an announcement that says we have all 50 democrats in the senate, and we have the house agreed upon this framework with this number, for example. 1.7 five, whatever that number is with revenue from these areas. this is where the tax revenue would come from. not necessarily highly specific. we would know where the tax revenue wasn't coming from, for example. they could tell us -- a lot of what the president did tonight. he said i don't think we are going to get, this i don't think we're going to get that. he talked about what we're not going to get. how many weeks of paid leave he might get could get shorter. he went into a bunch of
10:15 pm
specifics tonight that could be the kind of thing announced in a general framework. i mean, the staff for the senate finance committee haven't even heard what kirsten sinema's tax proposals are, and they are the people who have to write these things, and they can't write those overnight. yeah, except the problem in this instance is that joe manchin has been saying to folks, i want to see the details before i sign off on it, so there is, rachel referred to a chicken and egg, there is one of the problems of announcing a framework, because i'm not sure manchin will sign a dotted line on a framework without the details. >> all right, so we will see what happens tomorrow. claire mccaskill says you can skip tomorrow's news on this particular story. >> and by the way, lawrence, i also said the dodgers were
10:16 pm
going to win the series on morning joe this morning, so tune in tomorrow to once again sinclair was wrong. >> you do have a little more authority when it comes to the united states senate, claire mccaskill thank you very much for serena files this night, appreciate it. joining us now is sylvia gonzalez andersh, one of the members of senator sinema's veteran advisories council, who from that position in protest, she served in the air force from 1974 tonight 78, thank you very much for joining us tonight. you know, i am mystified by senator sinema, i have never seen senate behavior like this, certainly on the democratic side, i have no idea what you think about anything. you know her, you have supported her, do you understand why the senator is going off in directions that are different than what you thought she would do when she was a candidate?
10:17 pm
>> well, thank you very much for having me, no i don't understand where she's coming from, or what her plan is. >> and, what brought you to the point where you, in effect, have given up on her, have you given up on her? >> no, i'm hoping after all of this, we can come back together, because i really want to support her for reelection, but she has to keep her promises that she made for us for me to feel confident doing that. >> what was her reaction to you sending this letter to her basically resigning from this rib advisory group of hers? >> i got a very cordial voice mail from her, she was very polite and thank me for my service. that was about it, that was about only the second personal interaction have had with her. >> what happened to your access
10:18 pm
to her, after she won, after she became a senator compared to win she needed you for the campaign? ? >> it was very perfunctory and performative, we felt we were being used his props. >> how important were veterans issues in her second campaign? >> well, there were very serious issues that the veterans had about prescription drug prices and veterans affairs, so we really worked hard to get our elected, and we had the best of intentions in hoping that she would be the senator to really help us move forward. >> if you had picked up the phone when she called, but would you have said to her today? >> i would've said thank you very much, i appreciate your call, i really want you to really consider we have done
10:19 pm
this, and to try to take attention to it, and really help us move forward, this is what we want more than anything, we want to protect democracy. this whole thing is not about politics, it is only about the fear that we have about democracy been under attack. >> sylvia sylvia gonzalez andersh, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight. >> thank you very much i appreciate it. >> coming up, tonight, the u.s. attorney in washington d.c. received the contempt referral that was reproof by a bipartisan vote of the house of representatives today against stephen, congresswoman madeleine dean will join us next. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done.
10:20 pm
as someone who resembles someone else, i appreciate that liberty mutual knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
10:21 pm
the new sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair has the science to show that the toothpaste goes deep inside the exposed dentin to help repair sensitive teeth. my patients are able to have that quality of life back. i recommend sensodyne repair and protect with deep repair. and there you have it- woah. wireless on the most reliable network nationwide. wow. -big deal! ...we get unlimited for just 30 bucks. sweet, i get that too and mine has 5g included. that's cool, but ours save us serious clam-aroonies. relax people, my wireless is crushing it.
10:22 pm
that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. here is what the president said
10:23 pm
10:24 pm
tonight about prosecuting steve bannon for contempt of congress. >> i did not, have not, and will not pick up the phone and tell the attorney general where he should or should not suit in terms of who used to prosecute. but i answer the question honestly, and i think that anyone who does not respond to that kind of question from the legitimate committee in the house of representatives in the united states senate, should be held accountable. >> today, house of representatives voted to 29 to 2:02 to refer steve bannon for criminal contempt prosecution, nine republicans voted with all of the democrats to hold steve bannon in contempt of congress. congresswoman liz cheney, congressman adam kinzinger, peter bear, fred upton, john cap to go, nancy mace, brian
10:25 pm
fitzpatrick, and anthony gonzales, jenny hilary butler. congresswoman liz cheney, invited the chair of the house committee investigating the attack, said this about a republican colleagues who will not vote to refer stephen in for criminal contempt. >> there are people in this chamber, right now, who were evacuated with me, and with the rest of us on that day, during that attack. people who now seem to have forgotten the danger of the moment, the assault on the constitution, the assault on our congress. mr. bannon's own public statements make, he knew what was going to happen before it did. and thus, he must have been aware of and, may well have been involved in the planning of everything the played out on that day. the american people deserve to know when he knew, and what he
10:26 pm
did. i reserve for the balance of my time. >> this afternoon, how speaker nancy pelosi transmitted the criminal contempt of congress referral of steve bannon into the u.s. attorney's office in washington d.c., where was received at 5:30 pm today, at a house judiciary hearing, attorney general merrick garland said this. >> the house of representatives votes for referral of a contempt charge, the department of justice will do it always doesn't such circumstances, will apply the facts and a lot to make a decision consistent with the principles of prosecution. joining our discussion now is congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania, she is a member of the judiciary committee, and the second impeachment of donald trump. thank you very much for joining us, tonight, i want to begin with where we just ended, and that is the attorney general's comments today. it's difficult to imagine him
10:27 pm
saying anything else, under these circumstances, and yet there is more suspense tonight in washington about what this attorney general will decide, and there has been a long time. >> and yet, lawrence, thank you number one for having me tonight, it's a pleasure to be with you, i was in that hearing room today with attorney general merrick garland, and if you flashback to the last administration and how difficult it was to have then a.g. barr come before us, it was refreshing that we had merrick garland there, and that he was so thoughtfully said they will follow the evidence and the law and, where guides us. it's very refreshing, it shouldn't need to be refreshing, but a very refreshing no today, i was proud of that moment. >> is there any response from the justice department that you could except, that was
10:28 pm
something other than the prosecution of steve bannon? >> oh, number one, i'm so pleased with our committee, and moving so swiftly, and making sure that we brought the vote to the floor of the house tonight. and made sure that the referral was made to the department of justice, so yes we saw under the last administration, i dragging a feet, a department of justice that was wedded to the trump administration in a very prosperous way, we were still going to learn more about, so today was a really good day, i have to tell you that. strange internship section, of literally attorney general merrick garland speaking before the judiciary committee, of which i am vice chair and a member. and then literally going to the floor of the house, to hold bannon in contempt of congress.
10:29 pm
and i want to remind people that mr. bannon is a small player in this, he is a bit player in the corruption. but, much more importantly with the facts will come before the american people, come before congress, we will uphold our oversight responsibilities. and let everybody know exactly what happened so that we never let happen again. this was an attack on our democracy, and attack incited by failed former president, and attack of americans by americans, i know you know this part, an attack by americans on americans. where there was destruction, there is violence, there is literally desecration, and there is ultimately death, an attack on our democracy we, must never let it happen again, and we know there's a threat that will happen again. know there's a threat that will happen again
10:30 pm
brought back feelings about that was like to be on that floor, on january 6th when the people, steve bannon was cheering for were attacking that building and trying to get into that chamber. >> stranger should say that. there was a sweet moment tonight where the spouses of members of congress had a chance to be together in a social way. i was standing next to eugene phillips, my classmate, and my friend, and colleague. he and i recalled being in the gallery standing next to each other as i called out shame and he called out other things in terms of what was going on on the floor of the house. you know what happened? sadly, the republican party knows no shame, and that's what worries me the most. this is a party that's become a cult. a party that lost its soul and its way.
10:31 pm
i commend liz cheney and adam kinzinger. i hope to reclaim this party for themselves in this country. we need a healthy two party system. i stood there with phillips tonight, recalled our moments up in the gallery, where we called out shame, and where he called out it was just outrageous. the false arguments elected members of the republican party were making in terms of trying to defeat our election. sadly, january 6th is not the end of what's happened. what we are at risk for now is a repeat of january 6th. sadly, something much worse. >> congresswoman madeleine dean, thank you very much for joining us on this important night. we appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you. coming up, the trump cult is trying to turn fantasy into history. that's next.
10:32 pm
that's next. ♪ darling, i, i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. applebee's. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger.
10:33 pm
new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.
10:34 pm
joint pain, swelling, tenderness. my psoriasis. cosentyx® works on all of this. cosentyx can help you look and feel better by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections—some serious— and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me! get real relief with cosentyx. ♪ i see trees of green ♪
10:35 pm
watch me! ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ >> today, donald trump said the
10:36 pm
insurrection took place on november 3rd no mr. trump. i am sorry. that's what we call an election. we now an insurrection when we see one, in this body, because we lived through one. >> donald trump issued a written statement today saying quote the insurrection took place on november 3rd, election day january 6th was the protest. donald trump is trying to turn his fairytales about the election into history in the minds of his supporters. it's not the first time mythology has been used to shape but we think of as american history. the new documentary a civil war, which will premiere on msnbc this sunday is about the story america tells itself about our history. it shows the history of the civil war that i was taught in high school was a mix of
10:37 pm
history and mythology. we >> never really had a racial reckoning. but problem started first immediately after the war. if you want north and south to get together and get along again, you don't talk about causes and consequences. you talk about the mutual ballor on that battlefield. >> joining us now is david w. blight, he is the author of "race and reunion - the civil war in american history". and eugene robinson, columnist for the washington post. he's an msnbc political analyst, and professor blight, let me begin with you. there is that perennial question of what does the civil war mean to us now, but you could ask at any time on anything in our history. it seems much more vivid now.
10:38 pm
>> it does seem more vivid now and it has seemed that way especially since the massacre in charleston, in 2015. if not even before. a whole host of events and reactions have brought the civil war back into our consciousness. it's always also there and everywhere we discuss reconstruction. whether the meeting of the 14th amendment, meeting of federalism, federal however's estate power, and of course the meaning of race and equality. as long as we have a politics of race, we will always have this politics of civil war memory. the two go hand and glove, for better and for worse. that statement by trump as one of 1 million now of these orwellian statements that says
10:39 pm
true is false, night is day. it's really no different than the kinds of arguments a lost cause with-ology developed in the late 19th century, saying they never fought for slavery, we are only defeated by superior numbers and resources, saying they never lost on the battlefield. and saying their racial system of slavery was this benign institution now crushed by the northern via thin. those stories, those myths took years and years to develop and take over the culture. it remains to be seen whether what trump and trumpism is doing constitutes a new lost cause. they are getting very close to it. >> let's listen to more from the msnbc documentary the civil war. let's listen to it. >> no one on the civilian side
10:40 pm
of a confederate presidency was ever forced to concede and for p.t. eight what they believed. we allowed a group of people that waved an insurrection against their government to build statues to the heroes. that has kept it alive. we never solved the core problem of the civil war. >> eugene robinson, will they be somewhere, building a statue to insurrectionists from january 6th? >> you know, i really fear someday they might. i mean, lawrence, as you know, i grew up in a time and place where the civil war was still very present. a century later, in my hometown in south carolina, on the main street there is a confederate memorial erected, not right after the civil war, but in
10:41 pm
1892 when, as professor blight said, and has written so eloquently, when this myth of the lost cause was being constructed. it took a long time to build, to elaborate, and embedded in american consciousness. things are speeding up now. so, who knows whether this mythology of january 6th, this mythology of november 3rd will take root in that way? i also must say i'm a huge fan of professor blight. anyone who hasn't read his magisterial biography of frederick douglass should immediately do so. >> i'm glad you said that. i want to read a passage of the fbi excerpt, and their interview with one of the
10:42 pm
attackers at the capitol. the one who actually was tasing officer fun own. this is a very violent attack or on the capitol. and he said to the fbi, we thought we are going to hit it like a civil war. there was going to be a big battle. i thought there was going to be fighting, for some reason, indifferent cities. i thought the main fight, the main battle, was going to be in d.c. because trump called everyone there. we thought we were part of a bigger thing. we thought we were being used as part of a plan to save the country, to save america, save the constitution and the election, the integrity. professor blight, they thought they were the leading edge of a civil war. >> well, that poor man. it's a shame he can't think for himself about any of this. but yes, they apparently did see themselves as part of a larger movement, a larger
10:43 pm
phenomenon. ever since that day, i have wondered and been thankful that they didn't have more guns. thank god they didn't. they'd have stormed into the capital shooting. i don't even want to think i many people would have died and been casualties. this is the mentality now of grievance. of resistance, of rage against whatever they are choosing to rage against. against big government, pluralism, against abortion in some states. against immigration, against our continuing pluralistic american society that trump tapped into. there's no question about. as we've been saying this for years. i layered rage in american society and called out on january 6th. every time i think about january six now or i get asked
10:44 pm
about it, to me, i go back to other points in history where we had a similar coup d'états. it's not a new thing. it's the first time it's ever happened in the u.s. capital, that's for sure. they wilmington massacre and coup of 1890 eights in north carolina and many others like it. that happens to be one of the most egregious and most violent. that too was a situation where the white supremacist leaders of that movement said they would protest killing 60 people to take over the north carolina government. the real insurrection, they said, had been reconstruction and the ways in which black people managed to create a fledgling kind of new equality and actually get elected to office. we've been here before. this is a very serious moment about just as what you asked eugene, what will this event become for this american
10:45 pm
right-wing? will it become their new martyred moment around which they develop a lost cause? horrible just enough of them come to their senses and give it up? >> professor david white, thank you for joining us tonight, and participating in the msnbc documentary. eugene robinson, as always, thank you very much for joining us. author isabel wilkerson will join us next. join us next ♪don't know what it is 'bout that little gal's lovin'♪ ♪but i like it, i love it♪ applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. cough cough sneeze sneeze... applebee's. [ sneezing ] needs, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief. regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays.
10:46 pm
um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq.
10:47 pm
♪ ♪ your new pharmacy is here. and here. and here, too. it's here to help you save time and money and trips to the pharmacy. it's here to get you the medication you need when you need it. who knew it could be this easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy.
10:48 pm
we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. - grammarly business turned my marketing team into rock stars. (diana strums guitar) maya swears by grammarly business because it keeps her work on brand and error-free. fast and easy. - [announcer] learn more at grammarly.com/business. >> our next guest is isabel
10:49 pm
wilkerson. she is the acclaimed author of the bestseller "the warmth of other suns - the epic story of america's great migration". last, year she published another masterwork, "caste - the origins of our discounts". in "caste", isabel wilkerson writes this about the aftermath of the civil war. it turns out after the war, many white northerners felt a greater kinship with the former
10:50 pm
confederates who had betrayed the union and with the people whose free labor bill to the country's wealth and over whose freedom the civil war had been fought. the north conciliatory embrace with the former confederates compelled frederick douglass to remind americans there was a right side and a wrong side in the late war that ought to cause us to forget. adding it's no part of our duty to confound right with wrong or loyalty or treason. joining us now, is isabel wilkerson, pulitzer prize-winning journalist, and the author of the new york times bestseller "caste - the origins of our discontents". isabelle, eager to talk to you as i always am. coming off that discussion we are just having here about the privacy of the civil war to think about where we are today.
10:51 pm
>> i think when we think about how divided we are as a nation, i think of the majority of americans don't get a chance, and have not gotten an opportunity to know our countries true and full history. one of the reasons why i could say that is because what's the books i've written, one of the major responses i get is from people that will say to me i had no idea. no idea this happened in my country, no idea this happened in my region of the country. no idea. now having an idea has consequences. when people don't have an idea, that means it's harder to see what we have in common. hard to get on the same page about how we got to where we are. hard to understand how we got to be where we are. when you think about most wars, it is the victors to write the
10:52 pm
story. the victors who erect the monuments to their victory. the civil war and our country, it's those who were defeated who ended up erecting monuments of themselves, so as memorializing the symbolism of their cause. and dominating the narrative, ultimately, from the birth of a nation to gone with the wind. there was never a true reckoning after the civil war. for that reason we are still reliving. it's almost as if there is a feedback loop that continues until this day. >> it seems, and i'm throwing this out there as one of the things that didn't happen that could have left the marker of a reckoning. if, for example, there had been some penalty exacted upon the states that made were on the other states. just as an example, if we said okay, welcome back to the united states of america, each
10:53 pm
one of you now gets one senator instead of two. there would have been that permanent thing we've got to see about there is a price, something grievous happened for which a price had to be paid. >> you are absolutely right. there were no consequences. there were no consequences to moving forward. first of all, the goal was to reunite the country to keep the country intact. that's what occurred. when i think about how disconnected we are from our history, speaking to your point, it's hard to get past the idea of slavery and the fact slavery was a central part of the southern economy and southern way of life. it was that way of life that was one of the essential aspects of what the war was about.
10:54 pm
i want to say a little bit about what slavery means, how it's connected to how we are, where we are now. slavery lasted for so long, 246 years. that's 12 generations. how many greats do we have to add to the word grandparent to begin to imagine and comprehend how long slavery lasted? it lasted for so long and this is an important thing to note, it will not be until next year 2022 that the united states will have been a free and independent nation for as long as slavery lasted on this soil. slavery lasted for so long no adult alive today will be alive at the point at which african americans will have been freed for as long as african americans were enslaved. that won't happen until the year 20 1:11, it will not be until the second decade of the 22nd century. that african americans will have been freed for as long as they were in slaved. there will be a parity between freedom and enslavement and
10:55 pm
it's an astonishing very sobering way of looking at what our country has been through. we have not addressed much less reconciled this history. those of us alive today have to find a way to explain to succeeding generations how is it we saw a confederate flag inside the united states capitol this year, january 6th. r, how is it a writer was able to deliver the confederate flag forever then farther than robert e. lee himself? this is a reminder we are still living with the aftermath and consequences of this war. >> isabel wilkerson, hank you're joining us tonight. really appreciate it. tonight's last word is next.
10:56 pm
st word is next. tonight, i'll be eating lobster ravioli with shaved truffles. yes! you look amazing! no, you look amazing! thank you! thank you! thank you! thank you! thank you! thank you! haha, you're welcome. ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no'. everything. but then ray went from no to know.
10:57 pm
with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to. so ray... can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us certified turbocharger, suspension and fuel injection. n translation: certified goosebumps. certified from headlamp to tailpipe. that's certified head turns. and it's all backed by our unlimited mileage warranty. that means unlimited peace of mind. mercedes-benz certified pre-owned. translation: the mercedes of your dreams is closer than you think.
10:58 pm
oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal!
10:59 pm
only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ever wonder how san francisco became the greenest big city in america? just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. this halloween, xfinity rewards is offering up some spooky-good perks. like the chance to win a universal parks & resorts trip to hollywood or orlando to attend halloween horror nights. or xfinity rewards members, get the inside scoop on halloween kills. just say "watch with" into your voice remote for an exclusive live stream with jamie lee curtis. a q&a with me! join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks your rewards. and a programming note on our
11:00 pm
discussion here tonight, you can watch the peacock original film civil war on msnbc this sunday night at 10 pm, that's after succession, so you can watch it, you should recorded, you're going to want to watch it more than once, it is a really important documentary. that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. >> good evening once again, day 275 of the biden administration, the fate of one of donald trump's key allies, steve bannon now matter for the justice department, the house of representatives has voted to refer him to the doj for possible the -- one-time head of t

25 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on