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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  October 21, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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grohl. quite a life, quite a perspective. thank you for joining us on "the beat." "the reidout" starts right now. >> hi, ari. thank you very much. have a wonderful evening. i'm a little bit jealous. i'm a dave grohl super fan. >> hey. >> i'm holding the jealous in, holding it in, trying not to express it. be i love it. great interview. >> have a good evening. >> good evening, everyone. we've got a lot to get to. my guests tonight include the chairman of the january 6 committee, congressman bennie thompson, voting rights adversary stacey abrams, press secretary karine jean-pierre and congresswoman pramila jayapal. but we begin "the reidout" with the ball that is now in the doj's court. the house passed a resolution to refer steve bannon for criminal contempt charges. speaker nancy pelosi is now free to transmit that referral to the department of justice, which will decide whether to prosecute bannon for his flagrant defiance
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of a congressional subpoena. now by and large, house republicans voted to let bannon off the hook for spitting in the face of the very congress that they s.e. serve. but a small but hardy nine republicans wound up siding with the democratic majority that seven other republicans besides adam kinzinger and chaney. with that bipartisan support, the measure easily passed with 229 ayes and 202 republican no's. it came after cheney criticized the selective memories of her republican colleagues. >> there are people in this chamber right now who were evacuated with me and with the rest of us on that day during that attack. people who now seem to have forgotten the danger of the moment, the assault on the constitution, the assault on our congress. >> democratic congressman jamie raskin used his time on the floor to make clear that nobody
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gets a free pass after defying a lawful subpoena, stressing that the need for this investigation should be self-evident to every member of congress. >> we are investigating the attack on congress by domestic enemies of our constitution because we are sworn to do so by our oaths of office. in america, when you are subpoenaed to testify in court or in congress, you show up, period. if you act deliberately with sneering, cavalier contempt for the american people and their representatives, we will hold you in contempt. we will get to the truth of the violent assault on america. >> it's also been widely reported that as the vote was taking place, qanon congresswoman marjorie taylor greene crossed the aisle physically, not metaphorically, and tried to pick a fight with both raskin and cheney. according to cnn, liz cheney responded to the nonlegislating bully from georgia by saying she
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was a joke and referred to a previous margie comment about jewish space lasers for a source familiar with the interaction. all of this republican intransigence and wackiness from the lady in georgia aim after house minority leader kevin mccarthy made the bogus claim this morning that the bannon subpoena, get this, is invalid, among other things. >> no, they're issuing an invalid subpoena. issuing an invalid subpoena weakens our power, not if somebody votes against it. he has the right to go to the court to see if he has executive privilege or not. i don't know if he does or not, but neither does the committee. what the committee should do, like any time in the history a point on there so they don't utilize it to target people. >> today's vote leaves the justice department with a big decision to make. and for his part, attorney general merrick garland is not showing his hand. in hearing today, he gave no indication of whether the justice department would bring charges against bannon, saying
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they will make a decision consistent with the principles of prosecution. joining me now is congressman bennie thompson of mississippi, the chairman of the select committee to investigate the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol. mr. chairman, thank you for coming back. i really appreciate you being here again. and i want to get your reaction to the claim by the house minority leader kevin mccarthy that the subpoenas issued by your bipartisan committee are invalid. >> well, he is dead wrong. but that's not consistent with the law. clearly, we have, as you know, the authority as a duly constituted committee to issue subpoenas. we're doing that. we're doing our work. and he knows it, but, you know, he has to do the talking points. we are clear. we're on firm ground, and we look forward to the attorney general doing his job. >> there were two members of the republican side who tried to make an argument about the
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legitimacy of this claim based on steve bannon no longer working in the white house, which is the reason why executive privilege doesn't apply to him. but any way, we'll go ahead and let them talk. here they are. >> steve bannon was a private citizen before, after, and during january 6. so why is the select committee interested in steve bannon? it's simple. he is a democratic party boogieman. >> this is what the majority has decided to spend its time on, holding a private citizen who wasn't even part of the administration at the time in contempt for refusing to comply with house democrats' subpoenas? >> do you think that they've made the argument that the white house has made that he has nothing to do with the white house so he doesn't get executive privilege. but what do you make of their argument? >> joy, what we tell them on the
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floor is that's exactly what we're saying. the argument that he is making is absolutely the argument that we're making. he is a private citizen. he's not entitled to executive privilege, and therefore we're going forward with the issuance of the subpoena. this contempt process is absolutely in order, and you just can't flaunt your nose at congress and say i'm not going to do it. you and i know, as well as the majority of right-thinking people you honor subpoenas. you show up and if you decide to plead the fifth, if you decide to answer certain questions, you do it. but under no circumstances do you not show up. and so mr. bannon didn't show up, and therefore we went forward with the contempt. >> congressman jim jordan, there have been complaints from the republican side that he and other people who seem to have ties or connections or at least some conversations around the
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attempt at overturning the election were not allowed to actually be on the committee. he had some trouble today answering questions about whether he talked to donald trump before, during, or after the insurrection. do you expect to call him and potentially other members of congress? >> we absolutely expect to get to any and all the evidence, joy. i don't want to get out ahead of what we're going to do, but i assure you that we will do our work if mr. jordan in his infinite wisdom has already acknowledged that he's called, then we want to know exactly what he said, whether he called before, during or after is material to our investigation. so i can say that we will do our work, but, again, we won't be bullied by mr. jordan or anybody else. we will systematically go forward and do the work of the committee. we will find the facts and circumstances behind january 6
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and call it just like the facts present themselves. >> you had donald trump come out today and say that the actual insurrection was the election. so he is out there talking. can you foresee having the same kind of back and forth that you're having with steve bannon? do you foresee also happen to potentially hold somebody like donald trump in contempt? and what happens if the other person who refuses to testify is house minority leader kevin mccarthy? could he wind up facing a vote on contempt? >> well, i think everybody is open without getting ahead of it. we have to find the facts. our committee is committed to finding the facts. if mr. mccarthy's information is germane to our investigation, absolutely we will talk to him. i hope he honors the subpoena. you know, we tried to work with him in the beginning.
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we have the record is replete with him making suggestions as to how the composition of other committees should go, how we should have joint subpoena power. we agreed to all of that, and at the last minute, he pulled the plug and wouldn't allow republicans to support it. so i take anything the minority leaders say with a grain of salt. you know, in most instances, your word is your bond. and in this instance, he's not been truthful. >> bennie thompson, chairman of the january 6 committee, thank you very much. really appreciate your time this evening. >> thank you. >> have a good evening. joining us now is tom nichols, contributing wror for the atlantic, author of "our own worst enemy: the assault within our modern democracy." tom, should we take any hope from the fact that eight republicans decided to vote with the 200 plus democrats to hold bannon in contempt?
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>> imagine how both republican party has sunk that we're congratulating a party that has nine members linked to the fact 20 do the right thing. it's really not something to take a loft heart from. it's the folks you pretty much would have expected to stand on the right side of this. what's really happening here is that trump and bannon and the rest of them, they're not just thumbing their nose at the rule of law, they're trying to make the point that congress is not merely a branch of government. article i power of the constitution doesn't really exist unless you happen to like it. and it's amazing that kevin mccarthy is actually being complicit in that as a senior member of congress. and chairman thompson i think was wright on the money here when he basically said mccarthy's wrong and knows he's wrong.
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this is all a very ritual stylized kabuki dance where mccarthy isn't really talking to the american people or other members of congress. he is talking to a very narrow slice of the republican base of whom he is afraid of crossing, including donald trump. and it's a tragedy, because that continues the attack on our constitutional government. >> you know what's sort of bizarre about it -- well, all of it is bizarre, but you're having members of congress essentially argue that their own branch of government has no power, right. that their own branch of government does not have the right to issue and enforce a subpoena, and then you have someone like kevin mccarthy who then wants to take control of a branch of that very government that he is attempting to strip of its power. that to me makes no sense. they want to take control of a denuded version of the congress. >> but it makes perfect sense if you think like the cheap and
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corroded authoritarians that people like mccarthy have become, which is that congress doesn't matter and is unimportant unless we control it, unless the party i like controls it. then it should become all powerful and be able to do anything at once. if someone else controls it, you may ignore it at your leisure. and that's the way authoritarians think. institutions only matter if they happen to be in your grip. they don't exist in their own -- for their own sake as part of the rule of law and a constitutional culture. they only matter if you're in charge of them. and mccarthy's practically saying it out loud. >> yeah. not even practically. you had an epic tweet. one part you said michael steel said mitch mcconnell wouldn't think twice about jet tissing the filibuster if it meant getting the gop agenda. he is right. if it comes down to that one senate rule, dump the senate and
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pass the rule. what you're getting at in that thread is what you're talking about. it's situational belief in the powers of the congress. the minute that mitch mcconnell got back the gavel, he'd kill a fill buster in 10 seconds. i wonder why democrats do not understand what you and i understand, which is the republican party is not a party that cares about democracy. it's just an authoritarian party that is here to lead the one man who heeds the call. do you understand why they don't see that? >> joy, as a former and now apostate republican, you're asking me to explain democrats, which is a little tough for me. but, you know, one of the things that i think democrats keep falling for is that republican apologists retreat to what looks like for them the high ground. they say well, you know, mitch didn't -- mitch didn't kill the filibuster in 2017 when trump wanted him to.
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>> right. >> that's because mitch mcconnell isn't stupid. mcconnell understood that there was a real chance that republicans were going lose power because of donald trump, and mcconnell very intelligently understood that he wanted to keep that weapon in his quiver. he wanted to keep that option at hand. but, you know, i think with the republicans becoming completely the party of situational ethics, i think they have wrong-footed the democrats here who have kind of internalized the republican critique of them that you have to be civil. you have to take us seriously. you can't accuse of us bad faith, when we're obviously acting in bad faith. i think the answer here is not to sink to mitch mcconnell's level, but to be sober and judicious and clear-eyed and as cold-blooded as mitch mcconnell is being. >> yes. >> to say, you know, mcconnell would overthrow the filibuster if it were in his interest. >> yep. >> we need to think that way ourselves. >> because we're fighting for something bigger than just
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party. we're fighting for democracy. >> right. >> and you need to fight harder than this. i appreciate and i totally agree with i don't. tom nichols, thank you very much. we're just getting started by the way on "the reidout" tonight. stacey abrams, white house press secretary karine jean-pierre and congresswoman pramila jayapal. we'll talk the status of build back better, voting rights, the filibuster, and holding trump accountable. plus, what west virginians think about their senator joe manchin. he is fighting hard against things people in the state desperately want and need. and chris hayes will talk with d.c. metropolitan police officer michael fan known about the january 6 investigation. >>. >> donald trump ultimately i don't believe was responsible for bringing us to where we're at, the divisiveness that exists in this country, he just exploited it for his own personal gain. but if we're note going to have
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that conversation, we're not going engage in it honestly. you know, we're doomed to repeat the activities of january 6. >> "the reidout" continues after this. and want to make the right moves fast... get decision tech. for insights on when to buy and sell. and proactive alerts on market events. that's decision tech. only from fidelity. hi, my name is cherrie. ti'm 76 and i livech. on the oregon coast. my husband, sam, we've been married 53 years. we love to walk on the beach. i have two daughters and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my memory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
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these jobs will create -- that we're going to create for people who are too often left out and left behind. the vast majority of the jobs in my infrastructure bill don't require a four-year degree. 98% don't require a four-year degree. guess what, though? it's the ultimate blue collar, blue collar middle class renewal. real serious work. it needs to get done. folks, it's isn't enough just to invest in our fill infrastructure. we also have to investigate in our people. >> president biden has been traveling the country, going to his hometown of scranton
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yesterday to sell his big back better plan. he has emphasized how it will help working class americans, but the bill may end up being a shadow of what was originally proposed with democrats scaling back their agenda. i'm joined now by karine jean-pierre,uous principal deputy press secretary. i love saying that it so-so good to see you. >> it's good. it's good to see you. >> in person. >> in person. >> it's been so long. >> on set. >> it's going to be doing. this thank you. >> this is a wonderful reunion. before we just do girl talk, which i could easily do for the rest of the hour, and then i'd be in so much trouble. let's talk shop. >> okay. >> the elephant in the room, it feels like democrats have been real nice to manchin and sinema today. they're in there trying to work out. that feels like we're getting towards the end of the negotiation or y'all are worried they're going completely off the rails, they're going to tank everything. there has even been reporting
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manchin is considering quitting the party if he doesn't get everything he wants. what is the status of negotiating with those two people? >> can i ask the last question about manchin quitting the party. he actually answered that. he used a word that i can't use. but he actually answered that pretty plainly and clearly. and i just want to say, just to your point, look, senator man gin, senator sinema have been partners with us on this. and we have mutual respect for them. the president, they have mutual respect for us. and it's been a good faith partnership in both ways. and we have to understand this. this is -- the thing that the president understands and because he has the experience, he was a senator for 36 years. he was the vice president for eight years. there is a process here. what we're seeing is democracy in action, which we haven't seen in a couple of years, as you can imagine. but i also want to say, the thing that democrats all understand is we need to get done the bipartisan infrastructure deal and the
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build back better agenda. those are two economic policies that's going to grow the middle class, as the president just said when he was in scranton, which he puts in to this plan the values that he grew up in, where you talk about dealing the middle class in, not leaving anything behind. this is the president's plan. and so all democrats, regardless if you're a moderate or a progressive or wherever you fall in that big tent that we have believe that we need to move this forward. and so it's going to happen. we're going to have -- we're seeing progress. we're moving forward with progress. and just the other day, the president spent hours meeting with progressives, meeting with moderates, meeting with senator manchin, sinema. we have to move forward. >> here is the -- >> i'm here for it. >> republicans don't even have an agenda, so they don't anything in public. but seeing the sauce being made is ugly. it's unpleasant. >> exactly. >> it's not fun.
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>> exactly. >> when it comes to the build back better plan, and when it comes to voting rights, things that are fundamental not just to the of the democratic party, but to moving the country forward. our bridges are falling apart. roads are falling apart. people can't go to work because they can't find child care, can't afford it. the voting rights act is all but dead. is there a risk now that whatever comes out of all these nexts is so thin and so threadbare that the people don't feel it and don't feel that it was a success and actually say you know what? this was failure, no matter what ultimately. >> i would say this. when the negotiations are done, and i can't -- we're not doing to speak specifically. i can't speak specifically to that, the build back better agenda and the bipartisan infrastructure deal will be historic. it will make investments into our country that we haven't seen. >> will they be permanent, though? they're talking about getting
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rid of free college, making things temporary. >> we're talking through them. just think about it. all these things that the president put in his plan are the things that he believes in and is going to continue to fight for. when you think about the child tax credit, that was in the american rescue plan. it has caught child poverty by 58%. 38% -- >> but it's not permanent. >> he is fighting for these pieces of legislation and having the conversation. and democrats agree we need to move forward. they will be historical. the american rescue plan was historical in that it really helped people who have been left behind, especially during this year and a half of the pandemic. and we already know what it was even before that for working people. so what we're trying to do now is make it a little -- invest a little bit more, right, after -- like invest within the american rescue plan and continue some of the progress that we saw there. we got to remember, the president said this himself. when he walked into the white house we had multiple crises.
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we had climate change. we had covid pandemic. we had the economy, and we had racial justice and racial inequality that we truly had to deal with in a real way. so this is what he's been trying to move forward with. he is trying to deal with all of these. >> absolutely. >> that's what a president does. >> absolutely. i feel for him because it is a very big agenda. >> it's a big agenda. >> voting rights feels like -- >> people need it. >> voting rights feels like it's so critical. if democrats cannot stop this jim crow 2.0 that's really rolling out in such an aggressive way in places likes texas, in places like georgia, all across red america where a lot of democratic voters actually live and want to be able to vote and may not be able to vote and have their votes counted, then nothing else matters. and how hard is -- how hard is president biden going to start to personally fight for that? joe manchin tried the bipartisan thing. that didn't work. so how hard? is it time for the president to say you know what? end the filibuster. this needs to get done. >> the president has been working on those issues from the
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beginning as well. and what i mean by that is he's gone to multiple states. he went to tulsa, to commemorate the 100 years of what happened black wall street, you know, the white mob that attacked african american community there. and he talked about it and commemorated that moment that no other president had done before him. he went to philadelphia in a historic setting and talked about voting rights. he's met with people on the hill privately. he's met with civil rights leaders. he is going to continue to have those conversations. >> but fill buster? >> i also want to say he also used the power of the white house of the office to do what he can in the administration on the anniversary, on the anniversary of selma, bloody sunday. instead of giving words, he took action and whole of government approach, how to have access,
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better access through the federal government to voting access. and that actually is going to help as well. he doubled the size of -- in the civil rights division of voting rights lawyers. that's a big deal. because as you know, we're fighting these bills across the state, or we're going to be as they're such bad bills. it's all based on the big lie. this is all based on the big lie that trump put out that the last person who was in the oval office put out. so he is going to continue fighting for it. if you know the president, he is going to continue to fight for this. this is not the end. >> lightning round, because they're yelling at me that i'm out of time. is there going to be a voting rights bill that passes into law that the president can sign? >> yes going to fight for it. we are going to fight for it. i believe the john lewis bill is going to come to the floor. i know senator schumer is working on that. we're going to continue having the conversation. the president is not going to stop fighting. >> it's not an easy job. it's not an easy job.
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your job isn't easy either, but you do it so well. karine jean-pierre, thank you so much. i appreciate seeing you in person. oh, look at this. progress! democrats are wrestling meanwhile with a do or die scenario on voting rights, as we just discussed. failure to lock in federal protections now. and our democracy with it. stacey abrams joins me next. big show tonight. we'll be back right after this. . trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech: that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! my zone... lowering my a1c, cv risk, and losing some weight... now, back to the game! ozempic® is proven to lower a1c.
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jim crow in the 21st century is now a sinister combination of voter suppression and election subversion, and they're targeting not just voters of colors, as i said, but every voter who doesn't vote the way they want. >> president biden today at the martin luther king memorial in washington describing crystal clear terms the unrelenting assault on voting rights across this country. one day after republican senators unanimously blocked new voting rights legislation that would combat restrictive voting laws. biden called senators un-american and vice president kamala harris stressed why new legislation is urgently needed. >> as we all know, in 2013 the voting rights act that dr. king and so many others fought for was gutted by the supreme court decision in shelby v holder. and to be sure, we should not have to keep fighting so hard to
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secure our fundamental rights. but fight we must and fight we will. >> joining me now is stacey abrams, founder of fair fight action, and author of "our time is now" which is now available in paperback. stacey, it's always great to see you. i'm going to put up a map of the 19 states that have passed restrictive voter laws. in order to do something about that, joe manchin said he could get bipartisan support for something called the freedom to vote act that has lots of good stuff in it. it also has voter id in it. people are not too thrilled about that. that didn't even get one single republican vote. so where we are is that if there is 2340 change to the filibuster, the voting rights act is basically doa. if nothing passes and we are exactly where we are right now next november, what happens to our democracy and the access to the ballot? >> we do not take action, if we to not have minimum standards passed across this country, we
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know that these 19 states are the tip of the spear. there are 48 states that have considerate legislation, and there are 400 bills floating out there. we will watch the slow motion demise of our democracy accelerate dramatically starting as early as january as legislators come back into session and see how successful their colleagues have been at undermining our democracy. we will watch a complete collapse. and here is why this isn't a partisan issue. if you look at this map, some of those places don't have a large phalanx of voters of color or young voters. but when you attack democracy, you hurt everyone. and whether you are the intended target or not, when you break democracy, you break it for all voters, and that is why the freedom to vote act and the john lewis advancement act are so crucial. >> one of the i think so this they're doing most aggressively is gerrymandering. in texas that. >> literally said if you're hispanic, we're just going actually reduce your, you know,
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your representation directly. if you are african american, we're going reduce the number of districts with a majority of your folks in it to zero. that's about as blatant in gerrymandering as i've ever seen. i wonder if democrats are alarmed enough in washington about all of these developments. because it's sort of like election apartheid. they're essentially saying we're just going make it so that white voters are so advantaged that we can't lose. >> what we have seen happen is that all 50 senators are on board with moving this legislation forward. the freedom to vote act actually expands access to the right to vote, defends our democracy, and indeed addresses these extreme gerrymanders that have been essentially green lighted by the supreme court, first in the 2020 decision that permitted -- that permitted partisan gerrymandering, and then the bronvich decision recently. what we know is to push back against these, to unrig the
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maps, to guarantee access to the right to vote, we must have action. i appreciate and applaud the fact that senator manchin wanted to bring everyone together, because this is not a partisan issue. this is a people issue. this is a patriotism iraq. but the fact that they have now said resoundingly they will not stand for americans means that we have to as democrats speak up for everyone. and we know that the freedom to vote act is overwhelmingly supported. that the provision that expand access to democracy guarantee the freedom to vote, unrig the maps. all of those provisions are provisions that are uniformly and resoundingly sorted by democrats and independents. so it is a good thing if democrats have to go it alone, do it alone. because you're doing it for america, and that is the message we're trying to push that is the message we know we need to send. >> so doing it alone would involve getting all the democrats and some of the independents who have been pretty clear that they aren't willing to do anything to touch the filibuster. angus king was just on "rachel
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maddow show" the other night. he is reluctant to do it. obviously manchin and sinema have wrapped their arms around the filibuster as if it's a christmas present. they'll never let it go. i wonder if democrats are not even willing to change the filibuster. i feel like we're at an impasse. what do we do? they're not willing to do anything. >> we have seen carveouts of the filibuster before. i argued in an op-ed a few months ago that a carveout for democracy is one that should not be only tenable but acceptable. and that carveout can happen. i agree actually that we need to get rid of the entire filibuster. but i understand the protective nature, that it's one of the few mechanisms we have, because we have such narrow majorities or minorities when power switches in the senate. but we need to restore the senate. and that means restoring it to a functioning body. not a body that is held hostage by a minority of a minority. and that is what we have to work on. when ten people can decide the future of our nation, we have to
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restore the functionality of the senate, and i do believe that the appetite is there among democrats to have the conversation about how we restore the senate. that doesn't mean getting rid of the filibuster writ large. it didn't mean we can solve every problem. but the we do not protect the basics of our democracy, which are under attack by not only attacking our voters, but attacking our systems, we're watching the erosion of our democracy before our eyes. and i do believe the democrats are willing to fight to restore democracy. >> have you had conversations with senator chuck schumer and with manchin and sinema themselves to that end? and have they indicated a willingness to take action and do a carveout in order to restore democracy, in order to allow people to have the right to vote? >> my work is to talk to every single power broker and policy maker in washington to get good done. and i'm going to continue to have conversationing what needs to be done. i'm also going to have conversations with the american people. we need to keep the pressure on. that's why our freedom to vote
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is out there. we need folks to call 833-465-7142. 833-465-7142, and call your senators and tell them you need us to restore the senate and we need to do a carveout for the filibuster to protect our democracy. it's not just about my voice. it's about the voice of every american demanding that our nation do its job, and that our leaders do their jobs. >> we will be watching with baited breath what happens. it is the most important thing whether we have a democracy or not. stacey abrams very much for being here and all you do. still a lot to get to tonight. a lot. and up next, attorney general merrick garland faces a grilling from members of his own party on whether he intends -- i don't know if it's members of his own party, but basically, whether he intends to hold the twice impeached chee-to man responsible for his role in the january 6 insurrection. we'll be back after this.
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testifying today before the house judiciary committee, attorney general merrick garland pushed back on a "wall street journal" report that he told other justice department officials that he is concerned that jailing some january 6 insurrectionists could further radicalize them. >> my recollection of this is in a completely different context. that is i worry that there will be radicalization in the bureau of prisons when people are -- and this is radicalization has occurred with prison gangs, with white supremacist groups in prisons, and with radical middle eastern groups in prisons. and i was concerned that the bureau of prisons have a procedure for ensuring that that radicalization doesn't spread across prison populations. >> the attorney general faced questions about the department's handling in the prescription
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drugs of january 6 insurrectionists and the recent uptick in threats of violence against school boards and election officials. and joining me now is the person who asked him about the "wall street journal" reporting, congresswoman pramila jayapal of washington state. congresswoman, were you satisfied with that answer? it sounds a bit more nuanced that he is concerned either that radical groups including radical groups and white supremacist and radical islamist groups could further radicalize these insurrectionists or the other way around. were you satisfied with that answer? >> no, i mean, joy, what i said to him in response to his answer is i'm not sure how much more radicalize you'd can get when yoouch just been put there for trying to overthrow the government. let's be clear what we're talking about here. we were talking about january 6 and the prosecutions related to january 6 and the disparity between how the black lives matter activists were treated and people in those kinds of protests, charlottesville, how black people were treated versus
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how these white insurrectionists attacked the capital in the worst assault in the war since 1812 were treated. so that's what i was trying to get at with my questioning. and i, you know, look, i think he's got a tough job. but the point i was trying to make to him is if your goal is to restore faith in the department of justice, then you have to address the fact that we are taking a long time with these -- with these charges, that there are things that people did that were black that got treated in a certain way, and now the same thing being done with people who are white and worse and they're not treated in that way. i just think it's important that he address that. >> do you share what sounds like congressman adam schiff's concerns that this department of justice under merrick garland is too reluctant to take on donald trump and his supporters, that they are laying back on them purposefully because they are
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supporters of donald trump and that he'd be too timid to even go after trump himself? >> look, i don't think that's -- i don't think it's because they're supporters of donald trump. i think what the attorney general is trying to do is say that he is unbiased, that the department of justice has gone through too much of a time of corruption and, you know, trying to do the bidding of the president, and now it's a different time. but i think what you have to recognize is that if you protect the institution, despite the fact that it was corrupted, then you're not protecting the institution. and that's the thing i think we have to get across. >> absolutely. let's go on to the other big story that you're involved in, you a hand in the progressive caucus. about a week ago you made the comment, politico reported asked if nothing is better than something, and you said no, because when it comes down to something rather than nothing, it's the same people forced to settle for nothing over and over again. are you concerned where sinema and manchin are taking this
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build back better bill, that it's basically almost nothing and that that is what democrats are going to walk away with? >> no, i don't think that. i think what we have managed to do, the progressive caucus has managed to do is get the bill back to something that is really significant. i mean, imagine, joy, if people could wake up once we pass this bill and get universal child care where no family pays less -- more than 7% of their income in child care, universal pre-k, home and community-based care, primarily jobs that are held by immigrant women and women of color, but paying finally $15 an hour at least plus benefits. i mean, these are significant pieces. investment in housing. this is a big racial equity piece to invest in housing across our country, and then, of course, a significant investment in climate change. perhaps up to half a trillion dollars of investment into climate change. now these are pieces that are absolutely essential. medicare expansion is another one. dental vision and hearing for
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seniors. what we are going to come out of this with, if we get all of these things, which are the progressive caucus priorities is really transformative. so that's what i was saying is i didn't want to settle for nothing, for, you know, the infrastructure bill and nothing on this build back better act. >> the priorities you've laid out, strength, paid leave, home care, making bold investments in affordable housing, affordable drug price, roadmap to citizenship, what seems like it's getting thrown to the side, the clean energy performance program, which is pretty important in dealing with climate change. joe manchin doesn't want that. kirsten sinema doesn't want medicaid to be able to negotiate prescription drug prices. free community college is now out. are the compromises going to wind up being so much and so many that we wind up doing not
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nearly enough about climate, not nearly enough for young people then democrats have something that is good as you are saying it is, they really can't sell it because the base says this is not enough. >> well we have to see what we get to, obviously. the clean energy performance program, we thought that was the best way to cut carbon emission, but i will say, joy, that there is a way for us to cut carbon emissions without doing the clean electricity performance program. we are looking right now at different options and we're modeling what is the emissions reduction that you would get from those options. i think there are some things, if we can get them in, that will really make a difference. and so i do feel like that is still possible. community college, look, i'm desolate about that. that's my bill. i want it to be in there. we're just going to have to keep trying. medicare, negotiating drug prices, we hope we can still get
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that in. it's sinema that's not supportive of that right now. i believe we're going to get this done. >> we know you're going to keep fighting so thank you very much and hopefully you'll come back and keep us abreast of how things are going. it is a very important fight. thank you, congressman jayapal. up next, ever wonder how the citizens of west virginia feel about their senator standing in the way of their programs? pam garrison joins us next. stay with us. garrison joins us t stay with us tonight, i'll be eating a buffalo chicken panini with extra hot sauce.
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i have concerns about, i know my work ethic. i know the basic of where i came from. i know the people that i represent. and we're just concerned about the entitlement mentality verses a rewarding mentality and taking care of those who can really take care of themselves. >> that was democratic senator joe manchin sounds like jd vance or reagan in the '80s in his charitable assessment of the poor in his state. as he holds up the build back better agenda, it only hurts the people of his own state. he comes from the second poorest state in the country with a 16% poverty rate. joining me now is pamela garrison. i'm so glad you're here because
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what do you make of it when you hear manchin talk about an entitlement mentality in his state? >> well, to me, it's the slap in the face of west virginians. it is coldhearted. immoral. when you tell the poorest people in the nation that, talk about an entitlement, when we're just asking for a decent living wage. we're just asking for an opportunity. to me, that's elite talk. that's what elites say to their pheasants is how it comes over to west virginians. >> when i look at the, just the data on west virginia, it ranks 50th in infrastructure. 48th in the economy. 47th in healthcare. 45th in education. the average cost of childcare, $728 a month. it's a, that's 17% of the median family income in your state.
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only 11% of west virginia families can actually afford infant care the way things are now. and manchin has proposed a child tax credit change that would lock 37 million children out of getting aid. what do you think motivates joe manchin? >> in west virginia, i'm 62. the older population, our whole life, we were taught to fight and stand up for the mines and the miners. that's how we lived. but the younger generations, we haven't been that in 20 years or more. the younger generations has grew up watching their families struggle with low wage minimum wage jobs just to get them through school. and you know, it's, it's, to me, it's just immoral. i just cannot believe that he is going to cut 10,000 jobs from west virginians.
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you know, we're ready to move on from the coal industry. we only have about 10,000 miners. he's going to sacrifice 98% of us to keep the same, telling us, well, i can't change nothing. i've got to keep the status quo. well, you know, west virginians, we're beyond the status quo. we're at the bottom trying to claw, we're on fire trying to get his attention. he says he ain't heard from us. you can't turn around in washington without seeing a west virginian. we're having rallies everywhere. it's not that we're not talking. it's he's not listening. we want the whole deal. >> do you think it's partly because he and his family are in the coal business? do you think that influences the way he thinks about his state and the laws he wants to pass? >> well, it's manipulation. you know. we've been manipulated into thinking, you know, that that's the only thing that west
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virginia has. to offer. we don't. the people of west virginia and the state of west virginia, we have a lot to offer and we want to move on. you know. we're going to have a rally in charleston at 4:00 and we want everyone to join us. >> well, pam garrison, we need to bring you back. we are out of time. so thank you so much. that is the reidout. all in with chris hayes starts right now. >> tonight, the house votes to hold steve bannon in contempt. >> if you act deliberately with sneering, cavalier contempt for the american people, we will hold you in contempt. >> congressman jamie raskin on bannon's contempt and the high stakes decision for the justice department. then, beaten by the trump mob on january 6th, metropolitan police officer michael fa


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