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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 20, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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that is going to do it for us tonight to, i'll see you again to this time tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell, good evening lawrence. i was >> listening to your discussion with senator angus king, and by the way his speech on the senate floor, today, was one of the greats of this year certainly. but one of the things i really liked about what he has to say was everyone on the democratic side, who is now in favor of changing the 60 vote threshold rule came to that position reluctantly. he came to it, has been coming in to that direction more reluctantly than the rest, but everyone's thinking about this move slowly, and there was that moment where you mentioned -- any mention me and our history with this subject, and i can remember the first time it came
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up somewhere, you know, in a 2005 or six, the first time i'd heard a discussion about it publicly. and of course you don't change that rule, like angus king and people who work in the senate, i live to on the winning side of votes, where the side i was on had 43 votes in the senate of 100 senators. and did it repeatedly. and so, that's what he was talking about tonight, is that concept of remember if you do this it won't be there when you might want it in a few years down the road. so, i get that concept. i am personally passed it, and i just think get rid of the entire thing, there's no point of the 60 vote threshold under any circumstances at all. but it took me, i don't know, maybe three years of thinking about it over ten years ago to get into that space.
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and working through all of those things that, to some extent, senator king is still working through some of it. but he's worked through most of it and it does take time for the creatures of the senate, who lived with that rule and benefited from the kind of minority power side of it. >> well, it was interesting tonight, he was saying, he was explaining all of that about not wanting to be on the other side of it and how mitch mcconnell's chipping at the bit, to get rid of the filibuster actually. do what he can without it, when he's majority leader again. like he's definitely making all of that argument. but, and he saying he's don't want to get rid of the full of sylvester full stop. i don't even want to carve out for voting rights, because that mcconnell will have a carve out for abortion or some other thing. he's still saying all he wants to do is change of role, in his words, to force debate. to make the filibuster cost something so that it gets used last frequently for only the
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stuff that is really important. that it doesn't become the run-of-the-mill thing that you use for every vote anymore. he wants the filibuster to go back to being a rarely use thing. with that still affords them on iran already the protections that has in the past, for good or for ill, but make it a pain. and, you know, that shows his reluctance in that small seat conservativism on it. but still -- that gives him a great footing to be making a case to, for example, senator manchin and whose faith -- whose hands the the faith sort of rest right now. >> and, by the way, as luck would have it, norm morrison is going to be joining us. picking up where senator king left off. and that concept that norm originated, is a bigger change than it sounds like and it would -- but i don't think it's enough, i don't think it's enough of a change. i'm absolutely in the adam jentleson school of get rid of it all.
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and there is nothing like working through your own personal senate experience to seeing, in the end, why we should just get rid of it all. just get to what is thought of as democracy, which is the side with the most votes winds. that works in the house of, and has always work in the house of representatives. >> well, as a person who is not a creature of the senate, the way that you are in the way senator king is, and others who are involved in this process, it is interesting for the rest of us to watch you creatures evolve. and that's where creatures to. we that's evolution. >> we are. we are way could slow at evolving, rachel. >> it's jurassic time, we know. but will watch why you'll get it together. >> it is. , thank you rachel. >> thank you. >> well david corn is our lead guest tonight, on a day when he reported the most important scoop of the day in washington under these stunning headline, scoop, manchin tells associates
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he's considering leaving the democratic party and has an excellent plan. this is the story we experienced democrats in washington have been fearing, and republicans have been eager to hear for months now. after it became clear how far from the rest of his party joe manchin is, on the social policy part of the two track biden infrastructure bill. joe manchin is in favor of a package that is about half the size of what most democrats want. and joe manchin so far, opposes any such suggested changes in the senate 60 vote threshold that would allow -- democrats to pass voting rights legislation. without a simple majority vote. joe manchin has been the subject of protests by democratic activists who have traveled to west virginia to try to put pressure on the senator bernie sanders. -- local west but you virginia newspaper trying to put pressure on joe manchin, and
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senator sanders tweeted, the majority of the american people support the 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation bill. 48 out of the 50 democrats in the senate support the bill 96% of democrats in the house support the bill. no two people cannot sabotage what the overwhelming majority of this country want. now, it is rare for individual senators to be publicly isolated from their party the way joe manchin has been. and it is reminiscent of the first time a senator switched parties, at a time when each party had 50 senators, jim jeff hurts switch to the democratic party. after years of whispered encouragement from his democratic neighbors, like new york's -- and, the moment, the instant senator jeff hurts which party, control of the senate switch. from republicans to democrats. there's never been a more dramatic moment in the senate.
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most of the party switching though, in the senate, in our lifetimes, almost all of it, has been democrats switching to the republican party. that's the most common switch. that phenomenon began in earnest when south carolina's -- switch to the republican party in 1964 over cinema rights. -- who did not switch to the republican party were either defeated by republicans or replaced by pro republicans when they retired. alabama's current senior standard or, richard shelby was elected to the senate as a democrat. and switched parties at a low point in president clinton's popularity, in the 1990s. harsh treatment from the clinton white house was one of the reasons richard shelby felt isolated as a democrat and switched parties. senator shelby has lived a tension free life since then on the republican side of the aisle, in the senate. but joe manchin's policy
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positions are still much more in line with a democratic party than the republican party. there is not a single republican senator who is in favor of spending one penny on the social infrastructure track of the biden bills. joe manchin is in favor of spending 1.7 five trillion dollars. and joe manchin is in favor of raising taxes, including income taxes on the rich, to pay for that package. and no republican currently serving in the united states and has ever voted for a tax increase on anything. there are reports today that congressional democrats are now rushing to reach an agreement on the biden social infrastructure bill, majority leader chuck schumer said this today, on the senate floor. >> everyone's gonna have to compromise if we're gonna find that legislative sweet spot, we can all get behind.
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nobody will get everything they want, but no matter what, our final proposal will deliver the core promise we made to the american people. we're getting closer to an agreement, we want to finalize a deal by the end of this week, but we all must keep moving together. >> chuck schumer knows that in a 50/50 senate, the most important vote joe manchin has cast his here in the senate was the vote to make chuck schumer the majority leader and put democrats in charge of every -- chuck schumer snows the history of democratic senators and republican states, switching parties. and so, since he became the majority leader of the 50/50 senate he has to have devoted some thoughts every day to keeping joe manchin in the democratic party. publicly, joe manchin has always said that he hasn't given a thought to leaving the democratic party, but david corn reports, today, in mother
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jones, quote, in recent day senator joe manchin has told associates that he is considering leaving the democratic party if president joe biden and democrats on capitol hill do not agree to his demand to cut the size of the social infrastructure bill from 3.5 trillion dollars to 1.7 five trillion, according to people who have heard manchin discuss this. manchin has said that if this were to happen, he would declare himself an american independent. and he has devised a detail exit strategy for his departure, manchin has discussed bolting from the democratic party, perhaps to place pressure on biden and democrats in these negotiations. he told associates that he has a two-step plan for exiting the party. first, he would send a letter to senator chuck schumer, the top senate democrat, removing himself from the democratic leadership of the senate. he is vice chair of the senate democrats policy and communications committee. manchin hopes that would send a
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signal. he would then wait and see if that move had any impact on the negotiations. after about a week, he said, he would change his voter registration from democratic to independent. manchin told associates that he was prepared to initiate his executive plan earlier this week and had mentioned the possibility to biden. leading off our discussion tonight, david corn -- with msnbc -- norma norton's teen -- at the american enterprise -- is arena maxwell, the host of the program zerlina, that is on the choice from msnbc exclusively on peacock. david corn, senator manchin has responded to your reporting today. let's begin. by listening to senator manchin's colorful response to your reporting. look >> i can't control rumors
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-- be ul l -- >> i'm just writing that down, he said capital be. david, your official response to this senator's response to your report. >> well, he's not right. he's knows he's not right. he apparently, i assume he knows what he's been saying the people of the past couple days. and our sourcing on this is impeccable. i have full confidence, 100 percent reliability, he chose to say what he said. he's wrong and as i said a moment ago, he knows he's wrong. >> so, david, as i read your sourcing it refers to people who have heard them say these things. in your sourcing. so you have multiple sources, and it seemed very clear the other thing that's interesting about this is it he would be moving to independent. he would not be doing --
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do we know, what is your reporting tell you about, okay, he moves to independent and then, does he instantly vote for mitch mcconnell to become majority leader? >> in the discussions that were heard he didn't talk about that. he didn't talk about caucus -- democrats over republicans, having to become an independent. he clearly believes, and he said this publicly, that he still has a foothold or some synchronicity with democrats, and at least 1.7 five trillion, as you noted. the republicans are at zero and agreement, i'm negative on this front. i don't know to what degree chuck schumer has to worry about losing his job but clearly, you as a creature of the senate know, that he did this while it -- and just sort of elaborate you might have, the greater leverage he might have. and of course, we've seen a lot
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of stories about democrats being in disarray, and it would cause, i don't think it would cause chaos i, don't think it was to block the democratic party, but i do think he feels like he's drifting away from it. and feels very isolated. >> well, he also has the model of angus king, who just join rachel in the last hour, who was quite outraged about the outcome today in the senate, on the voting rights law, the vote that wouldn't even allow for a vote on the voting rights. but angus king himself refuses to carry the word democrat beside his name when he runs in the state of maine. he is listed as an independent, and an independent in the senate. as is bernie sanders. >> right, so there is a model for him to do this on the other side of bernie sanders, if he wants to be independent and still caucus with the democrats because he feels closer than republicans.
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he's not talking about this to the full extent of his thinking on this is unclear whether this was strategic issue to gain leverage in these particular talks or if there's something more long-range in his thinking. it is something psychological that he doesn't feel at home in the democratic party as much as he might've once felt. so, i think there are a lot of different motivations here, a lot of different factors, and we're not gonna get to the bottom until he talks more frankly about it. >> and zerlina, today, is also the day david's reporting is out there and at the same time you see kind of an increased momentum towards let's get a deal. and certainly for chuck schumer, holding on to joe manchin as a member of the democratic party has to be part of that urgency. >> well absolutely lawrence. and i think that the leadership of the democratic party needs to keep their eye on the policy ball.
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at the american people voted for. and we don't -- i don't even know that it's been mentioned in the segment yet, we're in a pandemic so many of these policies that yes cost money but are paid for, the way the bill is set up, are for a particular reason. it's to allow reason women to get back to work, so that they have affordable childcare to do that. it's to invest into home care, and elder care, and paid family leave. and that's things people need in this moment, but they also needed this before the pandemic. so now the democrats it's not just the urgency of, the midterm elections, but the fact that the american people need this stuff. and they voted for it. so i think that joe manchin, every night that he goes to bed, he needs to think about that mom that's at home, that's not able to go back to work because they can't afford childcare. or, that's worried about their elderly parent catching covid, and i think that those are the issues all democrats should care about. joe manchin should remember
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every single time he tries to operate and create leverage. how much more leverage does he need? >> zerlina, i'm so glad you mentioned the pandemic in relation to childcare, because i don't think i've ever mentioned it as we've discussed the childcare provision this year. but it's worth noting that yes, the paid for child care system in this country broke down completely under the weight of covid-19 and the shutdowns, and the way people had to isolate. angus king invoked you in the last hour talking about what needs to be done in the senate, but i want to first of all, in terms of that, that 60 vote threshold which i want to get to in a moment, i want to get to david's reporting on joe manchin. you've seen all these parties which is, and you've seen that momentum over decades now, and it's basically a been a one-way straight except for change efforts, from the northern canadian border state. but all the rest of those switches that happened in the southern states, it remains something of a political
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miracle that joe manchin can be elected in the state of west virginia, with the word democrat beside his name. and angus king is afraid to have that word behind beside his name in the state of maine. >> and bernie sanders was offered the democratic party's endorsement the last time he ran, and he said i don't want it. i'm not gonna lose any sleep over this. for some of the reason that david suggests, joe manchin is negotiating right now. i don't think will end up with a better be 1.7 five trillion, or 1.8 trillion out of here. i think it's a negotiation, i think they're probably gonna end up probably around 1.9. it's the details like serena said, that matter the most. all return the favor with angus king, if you have any of these viewers who have not seen the speech today, in 50 years of being around the senate i could count on the fingers of one hand speeches that were as
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significant, eloquent, and important. and when angus king talks about the dangers toot of democracy, and the need to change the rules, and thank you angus for mentioning the idea -- that others are going to take it seriously. but if he switched to become independent, yeah they're be a lot of stories, but it's not gonna change anything. he's not gonna go to republicans. i would actually like to see lisa ruszkowski think about becoming our american repugnant pendant. if there's one senator in the senate who's been distant treated badly by the the party which here he is a is apart -- and she's not moving. and i doubt very much that angus king will move, he's got it getting some leverage here and he'll use it to his advantage. and he sending a signal to the progressives in the house and senate, don't mess with me too much. i don't worry about where we're
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gonna end up, i think we're in a reasonably good place, i think manchin is so invested in the democracy that i think we're likely to see some movement on the filibuster to. >> david, a quick last word on this, so at the end of the day, it begins with your reporting ends with joe manchin's most colorful sidewalk interview yet. what is your assessment of where the story stands, where this situation, let me call it, stands tonight with joe manchin and the democratic party? >> you know, there's a great line from -- concentrates the mind. i have to believe that the democrats realize they have no chance, in 2022, in the midterms, if they don't deliver here. if they don't get a package that addresses most of their basic concerns and it looks like they know how to govern. look as an optimist, i think that pressure should overwhelm everything else. whether it's joe manchin does, some of the concerns that the
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progressives in the house agree with. i think at the end of the day, they really have to stand together or the house will fall down. so, i'm hoping that norm is right. and i think that there's something people can live with, we can go on to fight another day, to get one of those programs that zerlina talks about that may not be included this time around. >> david coren, thank you very much for joining us with your exclusive reporting today. norm lawrence team thank you for -- your lena, thank you very much for reminding me how the pandemic interacts with the need for this legislation, appreciate that. thank you all for starting us off. >> thank you lawrence. >> coming up, today, every republican senator voted to block democratic senator russ rights to vote. in the senate. that's next. senate. that's next. that's next. orate into thin air. which leaves us to wonder,
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debated a, is an emplacement endorsement of the horrid new voter suppression in election subversion laws pushed in conservative states, across the country. what we saw from republicans today was not how the senate is supposed to work. >> senate republicans denied senators the right to vote today. senators republicans the right to vote on a bill called the freedom to vote act, which was co written by senator joe manchin in the hope of attracting republican support for a voting rights bill. the bill would establish federal standards for early voting in -- automatic and online voting -- require voter i.d., mandate disclosure of dark money groups, and make election day a federal holiday. all 50 senators on the democratic side of the aisle voted for simply beginning debate on the bill, and then allowing a vote on the bill.
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and, all republicans voted against even talking about the bill. they voted against allowing a vote on the bill. it would've taken 60 votes to clear these, 60 vote threshold imposed by mitch mcconnell, on this bill, to simply begin to vote on the bill. vice president kamala harris said this, immediately after the senate vote, i'd liked >> i'd like to think that we have evolved as a nation and that we would not have to return to a moment where the united states senate would have to debate, yet in this situation fail as a body, to even move forward. as it relates to the right to vote. we're not gonna really give up, we're not deterred, but there still a lot of work to do and i think it's really a sad day. >> joining us now is democratic senator -- he was part of the group of democratic senators who worked with senator manchin on the freedom to vote act. senator, your reaction to the vote in the senate today and
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what you now need to do in order to even get the right to vote. you do not have the right to vote in the senate on this bill. >> yes, it's very troubling for our democracy. do you think about the ancient saying -- and yet, we have evolved through a change of culture where the minority set on obstruction has veto power over whether a topic can even be debated. so, this is paralysis. and, what this is really driving the senate to a point where i can't respond to an issue -- housing, or education, or quality, or climate. the senate's in big trouble and that puts our republic in a desperate position. >> senator, angus king, told rachel maddow in the previous hour, that he would be willing
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to change at least the procedure for the threshold and switch the pressure onto the objecting minority and forced them to deliver 41 votes to basically continue debate and avoid a vote on a bill. the so-called cultural. that would change the dynamic, it would make it something that would require the physical presence of republican senators, in order to do this kind of thing. what is your reaction to that, or any other possible change in the 60 vote threshold, to allow an actual vote, allow senators the right to vote on the right to vote. i'm >> well, the point here is, we have to restore the senate. and when we say that it means restore it as a body -- and that hold votes on the its
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use. and this particular idea that angus is referring to, is that it's a response to an accidental mistake from 1975. when the rule was change and it said well, to close debate instead of a higher number, whilst will do a lower number. so two thirds will be 3:50, so 67 will be 60. -- percent of those who show up, which meant and people did not understand what they were doing, that those who want to obstruct don't have to show up. and therefore, it became so easy to obstruct because the burden is all on the majority. you can go on vacation and obstruct, the vote could be 59 to 0 and 59 loose and can hold a debate. so, what i'm suggesting is, shouldn't the responsibility be on those who want more deviate to actually be there to deviate. how logical is that, very
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logical. >> let's listen to what angus king said tonight about the math of the senate now. and how 41 senators, in the senate, could be representing a tiny population blocking what the majority wants. >> you can guess 41 votes out of the current senate, which was enough to block any legislation. and if you take the stakes that those 41 senators wright present, add all the population together, you get 24% of the american people. so the situation we're in now, is that 24% of the american people have been effective veto over anything that 76% of the american people think is important public policy. i don't think that squares with democratic theory. >> senator merkley, i no longer really understand the reluctance of democratic senators who may, i guess
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there's not too many of them, who are wanting to hold on to the current version of the 60 vote threshold. >> well, the best lie light i can shine on it, the senate has been a place where the minority was guaranteed the opportunity to be heard and to participate. and that is something we should retain. so imagine, that by having to show up and actually debate, to continue to debate, the minority can slow things down by giving longer speeches in order to seek compromise, to make sure the public has seen the bill, the processing the bill, make sure the members have been able -- that's all positive. there's a real chance to participate and persuade regardless of which party or in. that's a stronger senate. but when that right to participate becomes a right to block the senate from -- to veto the opportunity to act.
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then we've gone over the cliff, and were crashing. you think, lawrence, right now we are noting that in the world there is a huge rehearse urgent of authoritarian, and the president of china is saying look how much more effective my more my model of authoritarianism is. rather than the republic, rather than a democracy. and here we are, really in a position to to be this shining light to the world, to show how powerful, for the people, rather than down from the few above. and, what's happening? we are destroying the ability to be that light for the world because we can't even hold a debate and a vote. >> senator >> that's dysfunctional. that will work. >> quickly senator before you go, with the reporting today that joe manchin is considering leaving the democratic party did you all go into a groove hug with judges senator manchin
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try to hold him off today? >> i didn't hear that report today, but i can tell you we've had a number of conversations with joe and he's been very earnest about his philosophies and he's wanting to find a path to meet the caucus halfway. and, it is responding to the urgency on build back better, so my only sense is he feels very connected to our team. senator jeff merkley thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up today congressman jim jordan went to a health hearing to defend steve bannon and ended up showing exactly why people like jim jordan, and -- who communicated with donald trump about january 6th never want to answer questions about any of that. that's next. that's next. and a side of mayonnaise. (doorbell rings) wonderful. mayonnaise...
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(music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ , everything the house
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representatives votes on must first pass through the rules committee chaired by jim mcgovern. the rules committee holds a hearing in which they usually hear from the top democrat, and top republican on whatever house committee has passed a bill for their consideration. because the january 6th committee unanimously voted to recommend criminal prosecution of stephen and for defying the subpoena, there was no one from the january six committee to represent the opposition at the rules committee hearing today, and so house republican leader kevin mccarthy and yet another attempt to set up jim jordan for public humiliation extreme public humiliation. jim jordan to present the republican opposition to the criminal prosecution of steve bannon, jim -- to show why steve bannon and other trump allies are afraid of having to testify under oath
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to the january 6th committee. >> he said and i quote, i've talked to the president so many i can't remember all the days i've talked to him. but i've certainly talked of the president. next day on july 28 you confirmed to news that you spoke to president on january six. -- whether you spoke to the president before during or after the capital's attack, you said and i quote, i spoke with him that day after i think, after, i don't know if i spoke with in the morning or not. i just don't know i would have to get back to you. i don't know when those conversations happened, and quote. so my question is you've had 84 days since that interview to go back and check the records, so when did you speak to him on january 6th, before, during, or after the attack on the capitol? or was it all three? >> of course they talk to the
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president. i've been clear about. that i talk to him all the time. this is not about me mister chairman. i know you want to make it about me. of course i talk to him, i talked to him that day, i've been clear about that. it's not about me. i know you want to make it about that. >> did you talk to the president, before, during, or after the attack of the capital, or was it all three? because he had 84 days to remember so if you can just clarify the record, was it before, during, or after the attack? >> after. >> so not before a jury? >> i've been clear about that. let me ask you a. question >> you said to a reporter from politico that you spoke to him during. so was that after? >> during. no i didn't speak to the president during the attack.
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>> joining us now is democratic congresswoman -- she's a member of the house rules committee, she's involved today. so it was a straight party line vote committee that seems to indicate what will happen in the house tomorrow with the house republican leadership now recommending that all republicans vote against the criminal prosecutions of steve bannon. >> yes. it's good to be with you, lawrence, it's unfortunate that republicans continue to play out this political sphere. we have these two people, these two representatives are the best that they could send to the rules committee, to try to continue to stop this investigation from moving forward. i think that it really truly shows their colors, that they have so much to hide because of their own personal involvement
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unfortunately. and so what do you expect to happen tomorrow this, vote will presumably pass the for -- the speaker immediately infers this to the justice department. >> the vote will go out tomorrow, out of the house. it will be a bipartisan vote once again because republicans refuse to uphold the rule of law, or to stand up for democracy. it will go to the senate where i believe they will continue to do the same thing. that's obstruct jabs justice. they don't want american voters to cast a vote on any election that doesn't please them, and does that result in them getting their people elected to office. by their people, i'm talking about republicans. when the people, the voters, actually vote for their
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president, and choose their president. i think the gop has a very clear about not certifying those results, and to the tune of trying to kill vice president pence, threatening all of our lives, and a major violent assault on our u.s. capitol. something we have not seen in recent years. >> congresswoman torres thank you very much. >> thank you. >> coming up steve bannon, doesn't want to stay word to the january 6th committee, but he has spoken for endless hours with our next guest. michael wolf. l wolf
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that the house quickly consider the resolution holding mr. bannon in contempt. it's regrettable that the select committee and the house have been put in this position.
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but instead of complying with our approval our mr. granite has shown in the past of snow total depart defiance. >> steve bannon doesn't just hold the votes to house representative contempt, he seems to hold donald trump in context at times. and michael wolf's first book about the trump presidency, file fire and fury. it may be that michael wolf has spent more time speaking with spin steve bannon and then donald trump has. and michael's new book, two famous, he writes bannon is a man who can't stop talking and we logged hundreds of hours of conversation in trump tower, the white house, the front side accommodations yuck occupied on capitol hill, the luxury suites he favored when he was in new york. michael wolf tells the story of how steve bannon joined the trump gang, when he was running the website which was then funded by the mercer's, a rich republican family. in august 2016, he read an article in the new york times
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about the collapsing trump campaign. he called the mercer's, worried that a landslide trump defeat white damage breitbart. the mercer's, political innocence but with a vast checkbook, immediately flew out to the hamptons to beat trump at a fund-raiser to be held at the home of woody johnson, the johnson & johnson air and new york jets owner, whom trump would subsequently appoint his ambassador to the court of st. james. virtually no would no one showed up for the sudden fund-raiser, a humiliating moment for trump, who, with the promise of a new influx of cash from the mercer's and desperate not to spend his own money, promptly agreed to make than in the head of his campaign. and that is why steve bannon is now one day away from being the target of his second federal prosecute prosecution. -- of stephen, while it was underway. when he pardoned steve bannon. joining us now, is michael wolf, he's the author of two things. the rich the powerful, the wishful, the notorious, the
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damned, that is his new book. michael, you have more insight into steve bannon than anyone on the january six committee. we see what's diana's doing now, he's going to fight this legally has far as he can, presumably this is good for steve bannon's business, isn't it? to be seen as they great resist or of this investigation. >> this is exactly where steve bannon wants to be. the democrats could not have played more into steve bannon's hands. he is the happiest man in america tonight. i mean, you know, steve's frustrations, remember steve has kind of been in the wilderness for the last three years since trump forced him out of the white house. but the real pain in steve's hard is that the attention has
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been on donald trump, who steve regards as law stupid, crazy, and a crook. rather than the attention being on stephen. so, yes, it's a good day for steve. >> so, the maximum penalty, if he's convicted of this is 12 months. it's a federal sentence. maybe he served eight or nine, something like that. >> he would be in heaven, he would literally be in heaven. this would make his career and his life. >> he would do the time and cash in on the time, presumably. >> oh, absolutely. it would be -- i would i've been watching this and i've been thinking, you know, steve is just the luckiest man on earth. >> now, let's go to the theoretical where the committee doesn't end up questioning him, we just saw jim jordan today
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try to answer questions about how many conversations he had with donald trump around january six. what would testimony from stephen and be like, if he was under oath trying to avoid perjury, possibly using the fifth amendment here and there? >> i mean, that's one of the interesting things about this is that i don't think that steve bannon has much to testify to. he really was not in, certainly not in close contact with donald trump. i mean, he made effort to be in contact, but trump doesn't like to speak to bannon. i don't think jim jordan was really in touch with the president either. and i think jim jordan won, he's trying to do, or whatnot to say is that -- for what he is trying to imply is that he was in touch with the president but that the reality is that he wasn't. so, everybody is kind of using
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this as a weird counter purpose. they want to be here, they want to be trump defenders. they want to be seen as somehow being important players in january 6th. when in fact, it was, what will ultimately unfold here, is this was chaos, mayhem, disorganized. and that nobody was really representing donald trump, except as always donald trump. >> michael wolf, the new book is to famous the insights to steve bannon are available nowhere else. michael wolf has them all. thank you very much for joining us michael, really appreciate it. >> lawrence, thank you. >> we'll be right back with tonight's last word. e right back wit tonight's last word. tonight's last word. . all night... for an email response from steve, who will sign back in at 9 am tomorrow morning.
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last year in his hometown of scranton, pennsylvania. and today he returned to scranton for the first time as president, selling his infrastructure agenda. which even if it were to pass at the smallest top line number being publicly discussed right now, it would be the largest alleges slated investment of its kind. >> no matter how long you live here in scranton, it's a place that climbs into your heart and it never really leaves you, that's the gods truth. it's always like that saying goes, you can take the boy out of scranton but you can't take scranton out of the boy. there's something special about it. the truth is scranton isn't my home because of the more members gave me, it's my home because of mother values he gave me. so i'm here today to talk about with fundamentally at stake today for the families and for
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our country's. for most of the 20th century we lead the world by a significant margin because we invested in our people, we invested in ourselves. not only in our roads and highways and bridges, but in our people and our families. if we make the investments, there can be no stopping american in the 21st century. there is never ever been a good bet to bet against america. never. never, never. >> president joe biden gets tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. w. well, good evening, once again 274 of the biden administration. we are just hours away from what has become the linchpin of the committee investigating the sacking of our capital and the attempt to change a presidential election. that will be holding someone, anyone accountable. in this case that will be steve bannon. this afternoon, the house rules committee to advance the
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recommendation the full house that bannon be held in contempt after hearing from lawmakers on the january six committee. also, her from good measure trump acolytes jim jordan and matt gates who showed up just to speak against the move to subpoena bannon. during one lively exchange, games made sure to push the former presidents lies about election fraud. do you accept that joe biden won the 2020 presidential election? >> i accept that joe biden is the president. >> do you accept that he won by 7 million votes, and if he did donald trump -- a margin that donald trump or landslide when he beat hillary clinton by the same numbers? >> i think that our election was uniquely polluted by these indiscriminate mail-in ballots. >> today just to remove any doubt republican house leaders officially reminded their members to vote no, on holding bannon in contempt. one of them used a trump to refrain to renounce e

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