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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 20, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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with subpoenas for documents and testimony relating to that riot, the matter is now set to go to the full house for a, vote possibly as early as this, week if it passes the house and it is expected to, a criminal referral will then be sent, to the u.s. attorney's office in d.c., which will decide whether or not it will proceed with a criminal investigation into bannon's lack of compliance. if he is ultimately convicted, bannon could face up to a year in prison, but before we get to, that which is a long way, off let's take a step back and look at the background, hear the january six committee has subpoenaed a whole bunch of trump associates for information, relating to the insurrection. there have been some high profile targets like bannon and lesser known subject with ties to various groups supporting trump, who may have been involved in the planning of that january 6th rally. the big one that the president spoke, up before the insurrection happened. some folks, the committee been
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trying to talk, to you like jeffrey, rosen who is donald trump's former acting attorney general have, complied they've actually given testimony. there been reports that former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows is quote engaging, with the committee. and this is all happening of course is the former president himself is now filed a lawsuit, as of yesterday, claiming executive privilege over the documents related to the, insurrection even though he is no longer the executive branch, and the current executive, that would be joe biden, has pointedly and formally refused to assert privilege, on donald trump's behalf. but, that lawsuit, as frivolous it may, it least has the trappings of a formal legal objection, that's different than was steve bannon is doing, steve bannon is basically just, thumbing his nose at the committee, refusing to comply with anything they, ask inciting trump's contempt of claim that executive privilege. , quote if at such, time you reach an agreement with
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president trump on a cool ruing, the application of an executive privilege. mr. bennett will not be producing documents. or testifying. of course just a point of fact here, unlike trump allies steve bannon was not employed during the insurrection, he's just a guy, with a podcast. okay. and he's trying to get executive privilege. trump fired him, quite famously years prior, back in 2017. affect the committee noted when it understandably, rejected bannon's privileged argument. quote, even if bannon had been a senior aide to the president during the time period covered by that contemplated testimony, which he was most assuredly not, he is not permitted by law to the type of immunity suggest. now. many of these subpoenas or someone brought in their scope it's true. and not always, apparently's to the public with the committee is looking. for but that's not really the case with bannon. you just made of her liz cheney, the vice chairman of the committee results some reason they're looking to what bannon
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was up to. but just according to the subpoena, there's ample evidence the former president advisor, being right there in the fold the days leading up to january six. he spoke to trump in december of 2020, urging him to focus his efforts to overturn the election specifically on that day. and the date of january 6th. on the, fifth just one day before, bannon was at a meeting trying to convince members of congress to refuse to certify joe biden's victory, perhaps most damning are the comments that bannon made on his podcast, that's what he does, he's a podcaster, that same day,, again this is just a 24-hour before a violent mob stormed the capitol. >> listen, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this, all hell is going to break loose tomorrow, it's going to be moving, it's going to be quick. >> bannon's prediction if you can call it a prediction, came true, sadly, the hail being the
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assault on police officers, the concussions, the heads being bashed in by the angry, crowd the use of bear, spray the staff of multiple people on that day, but after all that happened, after people had had their heads bashed, in and concussed and live television, and after people had died, including people loyal to donald trump were on the steps of the capital because of that, loyalty maybe because to assist the ban, and he wasn't backing down, he was pushing the big lie that trump really one. in fact, bannon had john eastman, the man who literally wrote the memo and how to overturn the election, on that show that night, to whine about mike pence, not overthrowing the will of the, voters and handing the election to trump. that's, said there's some more context here that's also worth acknowledging what we're talking about steve bannon and whatever his job is, well bannon was publicly pushing trump's claim of a bogus election on his podcast, even after those claims inspired a
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deadly insurrection, he was also apparently ingratiating himself to the president. private counseling him on the, election afterwards the attempted coup. that line of communication between the two men is notable because ban and very publicly fell in favor of the trump years earlier. when he was quoted making disparaging remarks about the president, and his, children and michael wolf's book fire and fury, of course bannon was an interesting situation you might, recall he needed a favor, as you might remember, he was in some legal trouble at the time you know when he was arrested on a chinese billionaires yacht, by the postal service policeman? bannon, was charged with a federal, crimes wire fraud and conspiracy, and money laundering conspiracy, those are serious criminal offenses, stemming from an alleged grift where he and his associates allegedly conned die hard trump supporters out of millions of dollars of bogus promises to use the money to privately fund a border wall, only to turn around and use some of the funds and lavish personal expenses. if you're saying to yourself
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that's not the steve bin and i, know who knows, will never really know. he's not going to go to trial, for bannon was in trouble, perhaps he wanted to be back in the good graces of the man would unequivocal pardon power, he began publicly and privately telling trump things that trump wanted to, here and i have to say, it did, payoff it appears in his final hours in the white house, reportedly after much back and forth, donald trump, the president, pardon bannon at the last minute. so, now it appears, the one-time trump campaign chairman feels confident where he stands, as he willfully defies congressional oversight, with both because claims of privilege, while this evening's vote was just a very preliminary, step it appears steve bannon's legal headaches may be far from over. congressman adam shift, a democrat representing california -- sits on the select committee investigate january, 60 just voted to proceed with holding steve bannon in criminal contempt. congressman, you have said this, in the days leading up to, this
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i don't think it's unexpected that ban him with thumb his nose of the committee, but you said, and others in the committee of, said we're not messing around here, and i am struck by the speed at which this is going, the vote happened tonight, what happens next? >> i expect we will take this up on the floor very soon, i'm not in a position to announce how, soon but i think it's going to happen very, soon just as we took up the criminal contempt, and as the chairman pointed out, tonight for anyone else who's watching, any other witnesses that request that we demand to come in testify, we will hold them in contempt as well. if they refused to do their lawful duty, so, i'm pleased that we have moved so quickly. i think the vice chair, liz cheney steam it was very powerful tonight, the rebutting, in rebuking the big lie, and those who continue to push it and i'm really pleased we're moving. >> i want to play something the chairman said about moving forward on this stuff i've been, and when there's been many
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targets of subpoenas you are in various states of full partial or negotiated towards some kinds of compliance, this is why chairman thompson had to say. about what bannon specifically stands on his actions. take a listen. >> mr. cheney and mr. bannon is put us in this position. but we won't take no for an answer. we believe mr. bannon has information relevant to our probe, and we will use the tools at our disposal, to get that information, mr. bannon stands alone in his complete defiance, of our subpoena. that's not acceptable. no one in this country, no matter how wealthy, or how powerful, is above the law. left unaddressed, this defiance may encourage others, to follow mr. bannon, down the same path. >> how important is this moment, for the overall inquiry that you are involved in? >> i think it's extremely
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important, we have to take notice of the breath of what brandon tried to do, which is not come to, committee and mr. some kind of privilege, but claim that he doesn't even need to show, up he's somehow absolutely i'm yun, from legal process, while others tried that too in the courts rejected that argument, it is rejected, here and i'm confident it will be rejected by the justice department. in the fact that we're referring him for prosecution will get the attention of others, now he's imported his own, right he has very relevant information of the day before the insurrection, he was talking about all haul how is going to, breakthroughs in for those who had talked about wanting to be there during the time of the revolution, that here is another opportunity for them to be there for a revolution, so he's clearly got information, relevant to our committee our country, and also he's important example of what should happen if people refuse their lawful duty. >> i want to play you something senator kevin claimer said, about all this, i think that
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people have noted this, before and it continues to be, true that in the aftermath of a violent attempts, to overturn the election. with an angry crowd chanting hang mike pence, having erected a gallows outside the capitol, that some members were shaken, understandably, but i think a lot of republican members of sort of moved, on an as long as the crowd is, not in their ear chanting hang mike pence at that moment,, they preferred and i think about, eight years with kevin, kramer senate republican had to say about today's vote on bannon. >> i actually think the whole commission is a bit irrelevant, i don't see bannon being, i frankly don't know how many people are paying attention to it. there are very many people paying attention to the january six commission. >> is paying attention the point here, what is the point? >> the point is that the rule of all needs to be observed, and it's surprising to hear senators, talk so blindly about an attack on our capital that
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resulted in the deaths of americans, the beating of police officers, but also essentially, undermining congress's role, in doing oversight, undermining our oversight into one of the most brutal attacks on our capitol in over 100 years. look, donald trump sets the tone, the tone donald trump wants to say, is, do not consider what happened on january six, or if you, do you should praise those who took up arms against our government, their heroes their political prisoners, we want to, some way defy them, that's donald trump's, message and, like beautiful carriers, many in his party are trying to, carry that message, the facts are the facts. it was a brutal assault. we still have so much to learn about what went into, it about what then president trump knew about it. in advance, what they knew about the participation of these white national, groups white nationalist groups in advance, and we want to make a set of recommendations, to
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protect the country going forward, that's our mission. >> congressman adam schiff, to serve on the, committee just voted to report unanimously out of that committee, to go to the full floor, thank you very much congressman. >> thank you. >> the republican vice chair of the house select committee investigating the january 6th investigation, liz cheney gave a statement before they unanimously voted to hold steve bannon in contempt. >> because he is categorically refused to appear, we have no choice, but to see consequences for mr. bannon's failure to comply those consequences are not just important for this investigation. they are important for all congressional investigations mr. bannon's and mr. trump's privileged arguments, do however, appeared to reveal one thing, they suggest that president trump, was personally involved in the planning in
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execution of january 6th in this committee will get to the bottom of that. >> served as associate white house counts are under president barack obama, cofounder and executive -- protector micro a non partisan organization, dedicated to fighting efforts to undermine democracy, we all expect the next few days this will be voted out of the full house and then go department of justice and i think there's really open question, about what happens when this, lands on a mayor garland's desk, and you've worked as a government, lawyer you worked in the way, as you've sort of been around the circles of people that will be making the decisions, on this i'm wondering, what is your perspective on it? >> i think the good side, is in the letter from white house counsel dana, remiss that rejected the claims of executive, privilege and turning over, documents she made clear that this is a unique an exceptional circumstance, and i think it's important to remember with the stakes are here. which is that steve bannon donald trump very much want, the failed coup attempt of last
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fall, to be practiced, for a future successful coup attempt. one way to do, that is to do a trump and bennett have been trying to do since day one, which is to prove that rules don't matter, laws or for losers, that they are above the law, and for a long time, we really got away with that. whether it's stonewalling congress or the american people cannot conduct oversight, whether it's tied up in courts. or whether it's engaging in a treasonous insurrection, getting your allies in congress to acquit you on impeachment, or whether it's defrauding and stealing money from your supporters, and getting your friend the president to pardon. they have proven time and again, that they are getting away with, it in the question for merrick garland, is is that with the rule of law, means to him, and i don't think it is. >> you're the lawyer that allegedly defrauding his supporters. steve bannon, he's a real -- we've got a situation to, where,
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look part of what's so maddening here, is. it's been true since early's stays, this is a guy skated as well. life is wiggle out of stuff. the new york times ran a 10,000 word piece basically accused him of criminal tax fraud. in black and way, another thing the new york times says lately, there's multiple criminal investigations in there's one in fulton, county there's one in the manhattan district attorney's office. he's been impeached twice. he whipped up a violent insurrection, in front of all of. us which we also. here's bannon who's been part, and saying i'm going to get away with. it the lie here is that it's super clearer is? it won't controls? you that is really the worry, two-way's report does with all, this is whether the house is essentially the power that they want to have and believe they should have here. i mean there's no question that the house has the power to compel its testimony, and that any claims of executive privilege are completely spaced for this reason. executive privilege to the
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extent, it does exist. it attaches to the constitutional acts of the president, when the president fulfilling his oath of office. in this case, the president wasn't involved in any power of the constitution gave. and the president was involved in inciting a violent insurrection to observe the republicans of the united states. because it is not an official constitutional act of the principal. there certainly is no principle attached to. it >> what do you think of the approach of the committee right now? and the general understanding amongst the kind of democratic governing class, and lawyer class more broadly. of the peril of this moment. because it does seem, not only do they say the right things, and today was a mark an example to sort of moving dispatch and seriously, i sometimes worry that they don't really believe that we are in the peril. and sometimes i think you share that concern. and i wonder what your assessment is. >> i do and, i want to give
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credit to representative just before because he really has been one of the few members of our government, congress executive that does deeply get this. and i think some of the other members of the january six committee do as well. but for most of the leadership of this country, they are looking at what is a five alarm fire that is engulfing our democracy. and walking slowly over to it with a bucket of water. and that is not what it is going to take to protect our democracy right. now if you look at what's going on, what is leading to this january six committee and the ban in defiance of a subpoena, it is straight out of a playbook, that every scholar that has studied the downfall democracy around the world. it's warrant, it's the playbook. there are six things that every article around the world has done to dismantle democracy. they have politicized the independent institution, like law enforcement, they spread disinformation, they quashed the scent, they've corrupted
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elections, they protect vulnerable populations, and they've sought to undermine checks and balances. donald trump is trying to do all of them. and he's trying to do the undermining of checks and balances which accompanied steve bannon, right here. angela's constitution start stepping up we argue going to see in the future in the way that ours is going to. until >>, we appreciate it thank you very much. >> next, getting covid on purpose. the right-wing campaign against lifesaving vaccine reaches new levels in the fox news host who have found the courage to just call out their bosses. we'll be right back. right back.
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say the n-word. idiotic. of course you should never call anybody at the n-word, that's despicable. but to say the word, you can't even say that word, it's despicable. you have to say the n-word. >> that is dennis, 73 year old radio host, you may have heard him before for some of his takes like that one. he is also the founder of something called the pressure you, which is not a real university but a website that you find in the clips, that sent the conservative clips of nearly every single issue. as many as the far-right, he has been a vocal anti-vaccine voice. encouraging people to get covid. they have natural immunity. yesterday, he announced that he finally got covid to. >> i wanted to achieve natural
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immunity which is by far the more robust immunity that one could have against covid or any virus. and i hugged strangers in the thousands, literally in the thousands. while not being an ocular did. and it was a gamble based on the knowledge, not based on being a gambler. i am not a gambler. and i certainly don't gamble with my hill. >> well i would argue that hugging thousands of strangers of unvaccinated, a 73 year old is in fact gambling with this help. although what is your daily hugging schedule looking like if you're hugging thousands of people? >> he said when he was taking a variety at best, a potential -- he said this he was taking this for a. while ivermectin of course. as well as the monoclonal antibodies which have been
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shown to be effective. pressure says he is feeling better, and i'm glad to hear that but, he's just a latest of the salute conservative radio host to come down with covid. including several who have died. including a nashville conservative talk radio host, named phil valentine, who quoted vice those who are not in the high risk to get the vaccine. and bet that is odds of dying from covid-19 were way less than 1%. before dying in covid in august. before his death, cumulus media, the radio that he worked for told employees that they must be fully vaccinated by october 11th, or the past week at least four radio host had left the company after refusing to be vaccinated. now one of the stars of kamala's media is threatening to leave unless they remove the mandate. >> have these companies ever thought about that and count all these numbers of moms and dads that are sitting in the tables and explaining to their kids how they may have to move out. how daddy doesn't have a job. because a bunch of people
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thought it would be a good idea to sit around and play pretend doctor fauci for a moment. and then people jamming something in their bodies that they don't? take is a mirror you can have the mandate. but you can't have both of them. >> well that's a tough choice. if you do not have an uncle who shared his videos on facebook, that is then gone geno. a guy who has found a niche as one of the mongol universe side characters. rage filled former secret service agents. i should tell you that guy, is in fact fully vaccinated. part of me wants to give him credit for sticking to his principles, and at the very least calling up his employer over this vaccine policies. something that i have noted repeatedly people like tucker carlson don't have the courage to do. but the thing is, like tucker, he is also a fox news host. and weirdly enough. he has not threatened nor said one single word about foxes strict vaccine protocol. that if you are vaccinated or
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tested daily. i guess the tough guy only goes so. far >> author of the book at the public of, lies in the conspiracy theorists, the rise to power, and she joins me now. anna merlan, i was struck by praeger saying i was trying to get it and natural unity is. best because i have been hearing a lot of. this and there's the tip of the iceberg, is natural immunity, which is of course a real thing, when you get covid, and you survive. it your body produces antibodies. but something deeper than, that which is that it is the really good thing to go about this public health to them. my understanding is that this is a broadly propagated view in certain circles. >> yes, so the idea that natural immunity is somehow better than the immunity conferred by vaccine is something that has been promoted not only during the covid-19 pandemic but in the anti-vax world as well before that. during previous enormous news outbreaks in 2015, and 2019,
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anti-vax personalities and radio host claim that it would be far better for instance, for your children, to get measles than to get the am and our vaccine. so this is not an effect gia. it's not necessarily a new idea in the context of a pandemic. some of these folks have been making this claim really since covid-19 appeared. people who are an anti vax radio show host urged his viewers, last june, to go out and ask you put it get this cold. so this is a common talking point, and it dangerous. one >> i mean, what i think is clarifying about, it is that in some ways it reaches to me the ideological bedrock. because i have a very hard time understanding or empathizing with this view. which i think has been one of the most deadly views that i've seen propagated in my time in public life. they said 150,000 people who have died from this virus. but, when it comes to us basically kind of the social darwinism.
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yes a lot of people are going to, die and they're probably just old poor vulnerable anyway, and if you survived the neutrals that you're strong. and you can kind of get that five a little bit off the pressure stuff, the joe rogan interview was subject to that as well. >> yes, the idea that a national immunity is better, and the idea of fundamentally people who get sick or die of covid are in some way responsible for their sickness, is a commonly propagated view. and it's important to remember that it's not just the fringe anti-vaccine, world this proposal healthy folks should go out and get covid, and would breach their immunity faster that way, was for instance suggested by boris johnson. in an earlier part of the pandemic, it wasn't suggesting that he quickly dropped when he got covid. and i think he realized quickly that it was unpleasant. it was also the suggestion of these so-called great barrington declaration which was written by a group of academics from harvard, stanford, oxford.
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in the earlier part of the pandemic. and again, the suggestion that it is a good idea to go out and get covid to avoid getting covid, is on its sleet ridiculous, but it also does not acknowledge a couple of. things [laughs] first of all the thing as covid, even a mild infection could lead you with health issues. and millions of people are struggling at the moment. but also more fundamentally the idea that we should avoid getting sick to avoid getting other people sick. in large part, this is how we got these dangerous variants. for instance. >> yes, and as i thought about dennis praeger, doing all his hugging, so much hugging. i mean really legendary amounts of hugging by his own account. and i'm taking that this word the thousands of people that he hugged literally. yes, some of them were exposed to the virus which was of course how all of this work, and scott atlas, when you're talking about people proposing.
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this the guy that was took over essentially was the chief advisor, appear to be basically have this view as. well >> it is a social darwin this view, and essentially it says that if you are immune compromised, if you are someone for whom the vaccine and neatly work less well then it's just too bad. that is just your problem, and it is especially surprising that this view continues to be promoted at a time when folks have the children going back to school. many of them who are not old enough to get vaccinated at the moment. what it is saying is that we are willing to take that risk of sickening our kids. at no protection at the moment. anna merlin that was great next, thank you very much. the near texas redistricting maps that gerrymander the state deeper in the, red weakening the vote from communities of color. there's a lawsuit trying to stop. we will talk to more the people suing, after this. will talk to more the peopl suing, after this.
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time texas lawmaker signed off on a new map of congressional districts. drawn up by republicans in that state. stave to this once in a decade, follows the census. although there was a time when texas took two bites of the apple and bush administration. new districts do not look great for democratic representation. that's multi democratic representation. the state has awarded two new seats in the house of representatives, the texas tribune explains republicans placed a new, district 37th congressional district in the austin area to capture democratic-leaning, voters that we're endangering the prospects of republican incumbents, the other district, 38, would offer republican safe territory in the houston area. in both districts white residents would make up more than 60% of eligible voters. it's part of a larger trend of what's happening in texas scenery porter ari berman broke down the details in his latest about their joan's piece. texas populations just shy of 40%, wipe away voters are not the majority and 60% of the maps districts. hispanic voters make up a
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comparable 39% of the state population, are a majority in just 18% of the districts, asian texans makeup under, 12 and 5% of the population respectively are majority zero districts, the things that makes it so notable is the population growth which allowed texas these two new seats, is 95% attributable, to people of color, now a teeny legal rights organization, the mexican american legal defense fund education, fund is suing texas governor greg abbott, and the deputies secretive state to block the map from taking effect. saying a quote, illegally in unconstitutionally deludes the voting strength of latino voters in, texas. in a paralysis the organization's vice president for litigation, and she joins me now. first, let's just start with what's the ground rules, of the voting rights act, the constitutional say. about this process. what's the sort of guidance, in terms of equal representation here?
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we know that there is an imperative for majority minority districts, or at least districts were non white members can be elected, because of the diversity of the constituency. what's the general baseline that we should be looking at? to judge this map by? >> that's exactly right, there's a legal requirement to draw majority minority districts, under the voting rights act, with certain factors are present. those factors are what we look for when we embark on redistricting. one of the most important being, what does the population look like. here in, texas's over the past ten years, we have had significant demographic change, in the state. in really, a dramatic growth, in the latino community, as well as other minority groups, in such a way, that more majority minority district should been drawn in these maps. >> that is the basic baseline i'm hearing from you that there
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are not enough, that there are i think three members of texas delegation that are african american, they're not majority black districts but their districts that are large portions of black voters. what's, what do you want from the court? >> we've challenged all four, statewide redistricting plans. you are mentioning the congressional plan. that discriminates against latino voters. but so do the house of representatives plan, within, texas the texas, asked the texas, senate and the state board of education. all of those maps, do not have latino muggy no districts, with what the law requires. so what we're asking the court to do, is blocked the maps that were drawn by the texas legislature, and draw apps to comply with the voting rights act. >> there's something of an irony here, which is that republicans are drawing these maps, and you know, latinos in texas, are politically across
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the spectrum, in terms of their politics. we saw very clearly in what happened in the 2020 election. there's all kinds of folks with all kinds of politics, there's a universe in which you could have more latina representation that does not necessarily impair the public and party, and they've chosen quite clearly, in a targeted fashion, not to make that happen. >> it's correct, latinos are very political diverse all around the united states, but what is the enduring, constant in texas, regardless of which political party is in charge of drawing the lines, because texas used to be a one party democratic state, will endures across all of these decades that we've been doing this work, is to advantage white political influence, and to diminish latino political influence. even when it's growing so quickly. as it is now and shown in the recent census. nina perales, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> there was a time in the
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career of nebraska congressman jeff or in berry, when the most important problem on his radar was this to faced campaign sign. luckily for the congressman, the vandals are no longer an issue. the bad news, is his biggest problem now has to do with a federal grand jury. that story is next. l grand jury that story is next
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the it's campaign campaign season again with the season, again with the election day just they just two weeks. two days, away and away that means that means the campaign signs are just once campaign signs are again all over the place. busy street corners -- that was reminded today one of the most memorable campaign signs in recent years is back in 2018. a sign for republican congressman jeff fortenberry, running for reelection in nebraska's first district. this is a sign, and as you can see some no good nick, has had the audacity to vandalize that signed, giving him big ugly eyes. which obviously doesn't have. and chasing the oh in his name to an a. a very juvenile joke, all around. which we wholeheartedly condemn when we covered at the time.
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we do so now again. congressman jeff fortenberry, was apparently so upset that anybody who even left at that sign was in trouble. which is how we found out about it when his chief of staff called up and threatened a local college professor who had simply liked the photo of the deface sign on facebook. but the whole thing blew over, and jeff fortenberry, reelected in 2018. again last year, he doesn't have to run again until next year. so he saved the nine turn congressman looked to be the new campaign video. >> hi this is jeff fortenberry, and i'm up for a drive in my 1950 f-100 pick up truck with my dog, and this is my wife celeste, we do this every now and. then >> we'll look at that isn't that a nice scene. in a vintage truck, his wife, dog, beautiful nebraska cornfield. but this was no campaign video. >> i wanted to send you a video
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because we do have something hard to tell you. about five and a half years ago, a person from overseas a legally moved money to my campaign. i didn't know anything about. this and he is some other americans to do so. they were all caught and punished, thankfully. about two and a half years ago, i had a knock on my door, on the weekend. they were fbi agents from california. i let them in my house, i answered their questions, later we went back and answered further questions, i told him when i knew and what i understood. they have accused me of lying to them, and are charging me with this. we are shocked. were stunned. i feel so personally betrayed. we thought we were trying to help. >> well, jeff fortenberry was right, today the congressman was in fact indicted, charged with one count with scheming to falsify and conceal material,
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facts and two counts of making false statements to federal investigators. as a congressman alluded to that video in 2016, a billionaire for national prohibited by federal law from contributing to any u.s. elections, a range for $30,000 of his money to be contributed through other individuals, to four numbers complain during a fund-raiser held in los angeles. the indictment says that despite learning of the illegal campaign contributions, who cooperated with the forties. 14 barry did not felt an amended report with the federal election commission. it also charges the congressman lied about what he knew about the whole scheme during two interviews, in 2019 with federal investigators and prosecutors. this is where i pop into say, always have a lawyer present when you talk to law enforcement. >> congressman jeff fortenberry, would be a rain tomorrow in -- he faces a maximum of -- in person at least they spelled his name correctly in that indictment.
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discussion at our lunch passionate, strong, and it was universal. universal agreement in that room that we have to come to an agreement. >> democrats are in agreement that they need an agreement. negotiations are still very much ongoing on the presidents build back better agenda, today biden himself, and senator joe manchin, kyrsten sinema, held separate discussions with moderates and progressive members of the congress. at the white house, he has been extremely hands-on. shoveling back and forth. moments ago the white house released a statement saying that he is more confident this evening about the path forward, and that there's urgency in
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moving forward over the next several days. now there's been some encouraging news, they are closer to a deal, and the back and forth is both difficult to follow, and somewhat agonizing, and maddening. but would i have just been trying to keep -- to focus on and the most halves in the bill, is from where i'm coming from, in terms of priority, this is a once in a decade chance to pass on something to keep the planet habitable. so what needs to be in this bill to really come back the climate crisis, or at least get us towards the goal that we are setting. and that's what -- we start with these negotiations. and there was a huge development over the weekend, not a good. one when they told nbc news that the biggest thing in the bill the clean energy program, which we have covered multiple times, was likely going to get dropped because joe manchin, opposes it. okay. so my question now is, what does that mean for the value of the package for the planet. and what is really the red line here? what is the litmus test for climate in this legislation? how should i feel about this?
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i can think of no one better to walk through that question then my next guest, john podesta, who is been working on this decade issue for decades, on the hill in the white house. center for american progress who cofounded, he is a counsel for barack obama, who is responsible for coordinating the administration climate policy, is the former chief of staff for president bill clinton. my reporting indicates that this program which had been structured in a bit of a weird way which was going to make both payments to utilities. so as to get them to meet targets to move off of fossil fuel towards clean energy. so that we could be on track for our commitments. but that is, joe manchin doesn't like it. and it's probably not going to be in the bill. which seems terrible to me. what should i think about that? >> look, it's clear that we are not going to get everything that we won. but i still think that we can get what we need. the other critical provision in this bill that it seems to be in good shape, are the clean
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energy tax credits, both for the power sector, to produce more clean energy, and the consumer credit to help people purchase electric vehicles. those remain popular across the board for moderates to progressives. there is a new report out today by part of the premier modeling, analysis suggested that with those provisions plus action by states, it's corporations keep to the pledges that they've made an administration takes administrative action that it's capable of doing it has the legal authority to do, we can hit the so-called climate cuts. well president biden has put forward to the global community. which is to reduce emissions by more than 50%, by 2030. that package of investments is transformational. and while the program, you talked about, the clean energy payment program would've been very helpful in getting us
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there. even without, it we can still get to the goal that president biden has laid out. these investments need to have been. so the biggest question is, will they come together, get this package done, keep those clean energy tax credits intact, make the important investments and environmental justice that continue to be included in this package. if that happens it will be a very good day for the planet. >> i guess that encourages me somewhat, but walk me through the sort of carbon accounting here is such that, you know the modeling said that this is an account somewhat in the 40% -- again it's very weirdly structured because it had to go to the directions of the agency so it's budgetary, it's payments of the utility, as opposed to just a national standard, which would be easier, and more straightforward frankly. but fine. we're doing with reconciliation. if that's gonna come, for my
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question, is what makes up for? or is it just that everyone has to be more aggressive at the state level? how do we make up for what's gone? >> first of all, in a lot of the reporting is discounted in how much work that the clean energy tax credits in the power sector do. which will deploy tremendous amounts of solarwinds and other zero carbon energy. that working construction with this payment program which is aimed at utilities, that even without that payment program those tax support for clean energy is going to be a powerful driver of changing the energy system in this country. there are more that could be done, there's other ideas that are being pursued to trying to replace the admissions that will be lost from the loss of this program. if it is lost, people are still fighting for it, i think senator manchin is pretty --
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we need all 50 votes. included grass in the safe to accelerate green energy at a state level. and more money for transit, there are other ways to get those tons. the other thing that i think this means is that the administration is just going to have to do more. work they put together an olive government approach, they put together an all-star, cabinet on climate but they're going to have to go get and use the authorities they have to reduce traditional pollutants collapsed, mercury, other types of pollutant. which will rapidly change the energy sector. we need to get about 80% reduction in the power sector alone. but again, that is doable with this package of tax credits plus aggressive action by the government. plus the state. action that i just described. would i rather have the program? of course.
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but can we still hit the mark. i think we can. and i think by doing so will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, of suggested 600,000 jobs in the power section alone. and tackled the real problem of the environmental injustice in this country by directing those investments to the places that born the branch of industrial empowerment sector pollution. >> all, right well i had you want to make me feel better. and i think that worked. more, less if you're still giving it a thumbs up. look, if you take a step back its other madness that this one senator from a state that is obviously kind of long fossil fuel history, and his personal financial stake, fossil feel business is the veto on this relatively small investment. but again, i can bang my head against the wall all day over that if that's what it's going to be. i am slightly encouraged by the rest of, that will have you back as this continues, john podesta, thank you.
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>> the plan needs to get this done. so we just have to use every tool we can to drive this thing forward. >> that is all in on this today's, night rachel maddow show starts right now, good evening rachel. evening rachel and thanks for joining us this hour. boy, has this been a weird news day. we woke up to surprise news this morning that the fbi was raiding a mansion in washington, d.c. a mansion apparently owned by russian oligarch oleg deripaska, or at least by concerns close to him. are oleg deripaska had, of course, a starring role in the mueller report and in the whole russian scandal when the trump campaign, for example, was inexplicably sending secret internal polling data to a russian intelligence officer while russia was intervening in that election trying to help trump win. mueller and the intelligence committee said that the intended recipient was this guy oleg te deripaska.


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