tv Jose Diaz- Balart Reports MSNBC October 18, 2021 7:00am-8:00am PDT
figure out if that is, in fact, the case. >> in time. tom winter, thank you. and thank you so much for watching. that wraps up this hour. please, stick with msnbc as we remember the life and extraordinary legacy of general colin powell. i'm stephanie ruhle. thank you for watching. jose diaz-balart picks up coverage right now. good morning. it's 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart and we begin with breaking news. the death of colin powell, one of the most respected military and diplomatic leaders in recent history. powell's family says the first black secretary of state and first black chairman of the joint chiefs of staff died this morning at walter reed national military medical center near washington. he died from complications of covid-19, even though he had been fully vaccinated. colin powell was 84 years old. former president george w. bush, who appointed powell as
secretary of state, issued this statement. "laura and i are deeply saddened by the death of colin powell. he was a great public servant, starting with his time as a soldier during vietnam. many presidents relied on general powell's counsel and experience. he was national security adviser under president reagan, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff under my father and president clinton, and secretary of state during my administration. he was such a favorite of presidents that he earned the presidential medal of freedom twice. he was highly respected at home and abroad. and most important, colin was a family man and a friend." a short time ago, defense secretary lloyd austin had this to say about powell's passing. >> a man who was respected around the globe and who will be, quite frankly, it is not possible to replace a colin powell. we will miss him. again, my thoughts and prayers
go out to the family and we're deeply, deeply saddened to learn of this. thank you. >> with me now, andrea mitchell, nbc news chief foreign affairs and chief washington correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," right here on msnbc. peter baker, "new york times" chief white house correspondent and an msnbc political analyst. david ignatius, foreign columnist and associate editor at "the washington post" as well as an msnbc contributor, and rick stengel, former undersecretary of state for former diplomacy and a former managing editor for full-time magazine. he is also an msnbc political analyst. thank you for being with me. andrea, how much of a trailblazing figure was colin powell? >> he was a trailblazer, so many times over. in the military, becoming chairman of the joint chiefs, and then the first iraq war, desert storm. of course, the way he shaped foreign policy, military policy. but most significantly, in many ways, was his trailblazing as an
african-american. because that is part of the motivation for him leaving the republican party after he was booed on the floor of the convention during his speech in 2000 in philadelphia. i was there when he talked about affirmative action and the need for the republican party to change. and then gradually, over the years, evolving, even though he was at the cabinet level, in the bush 43 administration and had first started to frank carlucci and to national security adviser under ronald reagan, he became at least voting as a democrat and endorsing barack obama in 2008, because he had always told me that his most important legacy was the colin powell institute at ccny, where he had gone as a son of immigrants, of jamaican immigrants in the bronx. obviously, a black person who cared so much, so deeply about people of color and about first
generation americans and immigrant americans. and someone who had been active at howard university and other historically black colleges over the years, who had risen in the military, starting in vietnam, as a soldier in vietnam, and later, of course, becoming, you know, rising to the very top of the american military and then, as secretary of state under bush 43. but breaking with the bush administration in many ways. he was the only member of the bush 43 cabinet who argued against the second iraq war, the second gulf war, and who reluctantly testified at the u.n. in february of 2003 and also became persuaded by george tennet, really, at the cia, the weekend proceeding that testimony to go to langley and go over all the data.
their claims of weapons of mass destruction, and was repeatedly trying to scrub that testimony, and grieved for years that he had misled the nation and the world over it, but had done so unwillingly, and he was an uncomfortable fit with bush and cheney as the years progressed in the iraq war, and eventually the change was made to condoleezza rice for the second bush term. so -- and he went on with america's promise and all of his other nonprofit contributions to americans and to others and broke with the party several more times in seceding years, in becoming a prominent spokesperson for democratic presidents. >> yeah. and peter, just how respected was powell by both people on both sides of the aisle? >> he had this great presence. when you were in the room with
colin powell, you knew you were in the room with colin powell. he had this magnetism and respect. he came across as this figure of great sobriety, maturity. the kind of person that presidents of both parties felt they could rely on. he was obviously the most important and certainly the most famous general in the united states in the post-vietnam era. he also could have been the first black president, had he chosen to run. he was recruited to run, encouraged to run in 1996, decided not to run it to bill clinton's, you know, great fortune. he had such a bipartisan respect across the globe, and i think he was one of the few figures that did cross a lot of those dividing lines in america in our modern times. he not only, obviously, broke barriers and all the rules andrea just described, and obviously, there's that great tragedy for him in having been what he saw as the front man for what turned out to be false
intelligence. it was such a -- it was such a bitter bill for him, you know, that we have a biography of james baker, and in that book, we tell the scene of colin powell coming to testify before the baker hamilton commission to look at what's happening in the second iraq war. and they ask an open-ended question at the beginning of his testimony and just sort of triggers this 20-minute monologue from him, full of passion and anger that his words were used to justify a war that turned out not to be true. and it did sour him. and when he got up to leave, james baker turns to leon panetta and says really sadly, that's the one person that could have stopped this. and i think that he knew that, which is why he did find it a bitter pill in the end. but he had so many important roles and important moments in our american life. he was a figure almost like
anybody in our modern generation and i think people will remember the totality of his record at this particular moment. >> absolutely. but david and andrea talked a little bit about that united nations february speech, which really kind of was something that he always talked about was a major mistake in miss life. despite being a highly respected figure, powell took a hit for going to the u.n. then to make the case for the iraq war. where, as we know, he presented false intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. how did that affect him? >> i think as was said earlier, he was bitter. afterward, he felt that he had been asked to argue a case that he fundamentally didn't believe. one of the terrible ironies of his involvement in the iraq tragedy is that he is, more than anybody else, the person who rebuilt our military after the vietnam war.
he believed that the military had been badly shaken, had lost confidence. he wanted it to fight, as he sometimes put it, short, winnable wars. wars that would not be ambiguous, that would not have the characteristics of the iraq war that he had such misgivings about, and then ended up testifying in support of it at the u.n. so, in the arc of his story, his ability to rebuild the military, make it strong, make it confident again, and sadly, the secretary of state at the time in 2003 when the military embarked on a campaign that really has, i think been bitterly difficult, the iraq war, more than anything else for the military, is the war that showed the limits of military power. just one more point about colin powell and the military. operation desert storm, during which he was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, really is the great lesson for all modern
militaries about the power of modern technology. people who were around then remember the videos that were shown of precisely targeted weapons, taking out bridges, individual iraqi tanks on the battle field. and it showed that a new generation of weapons had arrived. colin powell was the symbol of the military, as chairman in that time. every other military around the world realized that they could not compete with the united states, as a show of force in operation desert storm. russia, china, every other country began to alter their plans for modernization. so i think as a military leader, powell helped put the military back together again. he had this very sad cota to his life. he almost had a smile on his
face. he was better at cracking a joke in the beginning of a meeting or social gathering. he always had something funny to say and then he'd get down to business. he had that gift for dealing with people that i think is part of why presidents like working with him so much. >> rick, what would you say that colin powell's legacy is writ large? >> i would say what his legacy writ large is, country over party. we had fantastic summaries of his career. hep learned the lessons of vietnam like many of his generation and we had the powell doctrine of overwhelming force. but he was a republican and he served four different presidents. but when president obama decided to run in 2008, even though he was seceding a president he had worked for, he decided to cross party lines and endorse barack obama. i'll never forget that appearance he made on "meet the
press" where he was endorsing obama and then he was asked about all the rumors of obama being a muslim. he said, well, it doesn't matter. what if he was a muslim? that doesn't matter at all. and it was a courageous thing to say. and i think his criticism of donald trump, where he said, look, i've worked for four presidents before, and i've seen something with donald trump that i've never seen before, which is a president who lies and lies directly and over and over. what we've seen with colin powell is someone who was a true patriot, a true public servant, and who decided what the interests of the country were over his party. and i think that's a great legacy. that's a great legacy for everyone. and that's a great legacy for black americans, as well. and i just want to chime in on something that andrea mentioned, because i've been there a few times. the colin powell school of public service up in the bronx,
it's a spectacular place, which he started and engendered public service in children like himself. i want to put in a good word for that, as a lifetime new yorker myself. >> that's an important clarification. i'm glad you made it. in that moment on "meet the press" when he talks about his support for obama and about how what if he were a muslim, does that not make him an american? although he cleared up that obama was not a muslim. but then he talks about in that same appearance how a mother going to grieve her son who died in the field of battle. and over his grave, she weeps and it was a muslim young man who gave his life for the united states on the field of battle. and that he was a teenager when 9/11 happened and that he waited until he was of the age to
volunteer for the armed forces of the united states of america and lost his life for our country as a muslim american. and i think that that was such an important clairgs of what it is that america is and who we are. david, what about his impact on national security? >> well, colin powell was a superb national security manager, as national security adviser, he came in to a reagan administration that had been badly shaken by the iran contra scandal. the white house at the time of national security policy was really disorganized, struggling. and colin powell came in and made it work right. made it an orderly place, put it back together. those last couple of years of the reagan administration were difficult. colin powell also was there in the -- what i would say the
prelude to the period in which the cold war was won. that really happened on the watch of president george h.w. bush, and powell then moved back pentagon to be chairman. but as national security adviser, we were pressuring all of the soviet republics, armenia, georgia, the stans in the south, the baltics, and powell was very much part of that and the pressure on the soviets was showing. gorbachev was moving towards reagan and what was the most unlikely embrace upon arms control. so we think about these great stories, the end of the cold war is the greatest, really, for our generation. colin powell was part of this. as a military officer at a white house who was beginning to think through what became under 41, the end game. so i think he, as a national
security manager, with that easy going style and ability to talk to people, to make decisions, to implement them, i think he was one of the very best. it's such a tragedy that that story converges on iraq. i think by consensus, one of the worst national security decisions our country made. he was skeptical about it from the beginning, and in effect, got talked into doing it, and he regretted it the rest of his life. >> and peter, talking about 96 and about how he had been urged to run for president. i remember actually interviewing him in 1996 at the republican convention in san diego. and he was there to support dowell by the convention, but, boy, oh, boy, was he a heavyweight. i mean, the fact that he chose not to really made a huge difference at the time. he was one of the biggest political heavyweights.
>> yeah, he absolutely was. he was a giant. obviously, he was a giant in national security in the ways that we just talked about, but he was a giant politically at well, particularly at that moment in time. he was the one figure that bill clinton in the white house worried the most about and didn't want to have to run against. worried that he would lose if republicans had nominated him. powell came under great pressure from a lot of people to run. but in the end, you know, there was this -- his wife, alma, was terrified that the idea of the first black, you know, president would be dangerous, would put him in the crosshairs. that america was still, unfortunately, you know, home to people who would not, you know, accept that and that he would be physically, his life would be in danger. and that was a big factor for him, as he made that decision. obviously, it was just, you know, 12 years later that we did actually obviously, in barack obama, have the first black president. but at the time in 1996, it was
seen as such a momentous possibility. and that he was the only one who could do it because he, in fact, did cross lines. because he didn't come across as a partisan. he was a republican, but also somebody that was mentioned, talked about affirmative action and talked about abortion rights. and i think he had some social views that were on the more appealing to democrats than some of his fellow republicans. but he crossed lines. he just had an appeal that wasn't like any other politician of his era. and i think because he wasn't really a politician in the same sense of those who would run for office, he was able to sort of reach out with his own personal stories, his own personal biography, his toughness, his magnetism, the sense of maturity that he brought to any public service engagement. the sense of service to country. he had served in vietnam. he had given his life to serving his country and i think that appealed to a lot of people. >> and how much he did to
inspire young people into public service. andrea, how will you remember colin powell? how do you think he'll be remembered by all? >> clearly, he's going to be remembered as a national security figure. he shaped national security policy. i was just looking at an interview i did with him in afghanistan in 2002, when he was first on the ground, he was secretary of state, we were traveling there. he was a military man. he thought he could deal with the president in pakistan, military man to military man when we went, shortly after 9/11 there. but i still think of him as a family man. and family in the largest sense of the african-american family. the immigrant family. but certainly, his family. i think of alma powell, his devoted wife, to whom he was devoted, his children, his grandchildren, and the man who ultimately decided not to run for president in 1996, because of family, as peter said.
and other issues. and just as a patriot, and as a friend. >> son of immigrants who reached the american dream and helped so many others be inspired to reaching their own american dream. andrea mitchell, peter baker, david ignatius and rick stangl, thank you all very much for being with me this morning. still ahead, a notorious gang believed to have been kidnapped u.s. missionaries in haiti. we're live with the very latest. plus, an nbc exclusive. the biden administration expected to build an intelligence-gathering cell to track groups of migrants heading to the united states. details ahead. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports." you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports. cough cough sneeze sneeze... [ sneezing ] needs, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief.
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24 past the hour and a source close to the administration says that a team of fbi agents have landed in haiti to assist with the kidnapping of 17 missionaries and their family members, 16 of them american. five of them are children. they're being held by one of the country's most notorious gangs this morning after being kidnapped in port-au-prince over the weekend. it's just the latest in a surge of kidnappings there. a country riddled with lawlessness in the wake of natural disasters, political corruption, even the assassination of its president. joining me now are nbc's jacob soboroff who recently traveled
to haiti, gary pierre pierre. thank you both for being with me. jacob, what do we know about the situation with these missionaries? >> reporter: well, there are 17 of them. 16 of them, according to the u.s. state department, jose, are american, and they have found themselves subjected to what people across not just port-au-prince but across haiti have come to know very well. this is a record year for kidnappings in that country. it's a country that's been besieged by political instability, natural disaster, economic inequality and extreme hunger. and when we were on the ground earlier this month, we faced some of the concerns that we faced. kidnappings were front of mind everywhere we went, everywhere we traveled, everybody we talked to. you can't move around without the knowledge that that is a possibility that may befall you on the streets right now, when so many gangs control not just, as i said, port-au-prince, but the entire country. and even when we traveled across the country with international aid organizations like the
united nations or when we visited doctors without borders, they cannot operate in-country without protection from these gangs today. and it's why so many haitians, as you and i have talked about, jose, are considering leaving the country. >> they see that there is no other choice. gary, haiti is in the news this morning because americans and a canadian have been kidnapped, but as we've been reporting, hundreds of haitians go missing there every month. what's different about foreigners being kidnapped this time around? and what happens there on a daily basis that we never even hear about? >> well, the difference is that they are americans, plain and simple. the average haitian has been subjected to these fears and these realities. every day in haitian american communities in miami and new york and boston, you know, people have to get together to come up with ransom money to free relatives or friends who have been kidnapped. and also, the lawlessness, the lack of governance in the country. the gang problems has outgrown
the police. the police are incapable of controlling it. and right now, there's no end in sight. the gangs are even more powerful than they have been and so, we all, basically, are in a wait-and-see attitude, what happens next, how will the government react? can the police handle these rash of kidnappings. and not only the kidnappings, but we have armed robberies happening in daylight and killings and it just complete chaos. unfortunately, that's the word that i have to use to describe the situation in haiti right now. it's complete chaos. >> and gary, i mean, this is such -- something that goes back through history. i mean, you know, papa doc and baby doc and ton ton macoots and invasions and hurricanes and earthquakes. it's just like a situation that has been going on for so long,
gary. and yet, you have this extraordinary people. you know, just see what the haitian community has done and accomplished in south florida and throughout the country. it seems as though they don't see a future in their own island. >> unfortunately, no, jose. haiti does not offer any hope or opportunity. that's why we've seen these migrants leaving haiti in droves. and right now, there might be some people right to get out. we've focused on the border for obvious reasons, but slowly, the coast guard have been apprehending people. and the dominican republic next door have seen an increase in migrants. mostly middle class people who cannot live in haiti. they face all kinds of fears for their safety and their property. and that's been going on forever. and i can -- you've gone back
really far, jose. it goes back that far. the problem we need to address is bad government. it's where the people in leadership position look out for themselves instead of the benefit for the people at large. and you're absolutely correct. patients out of haiti have accomplished quite a lot, not only in america, but in the caribbean and latin american. we've seen that in chile, there's a strong growing haitian community and i guarantee you they will find a way to make a better live for themselves. >> as they always do. they just need to be given the opportunity and the freedom to live their lives. gary pierre pierre and jacob soboroff, thank you for everything you do to shine light. it's so important deep this on our forefront. thank you both for being with me this morning. >> thanks, jose. now to georgia where jury selection is underway in the trial of three white men charged with killing ahmaud arbery in what his family and president biden among others have called a lynching. gregory mcmichael, his son
travis, and william bryan will all face murder charges for the killing of the 23-year-old black man as he jogged through a neighborhood in southern georgia and face hate crimes. they they say they thought he was a burglar. bryan, who filmed this disturbing shooting, say he was just a witness. the video prompted them to make changes in the federal statutes, including the passage of the state's first hate crime law. joining me now is catie beck in new brunswick where the trial is taking place, and thank you for being with me. kate, tell us more about how jury selection is expected to play out. >> they had to cast an incredibly wide net here, jose.
this was a small community, obviously, a national news story that was sparking outrage. there was so much focus and intense media throughout the sboir duration, really, of how this case unfolded that now they have had to have a massive jury pool brought in here to brunswick, georgia, to be contended with potential jurors. there are 600 people who are going to be considered as potential jurors and then another 400 that are going to be on standby. they're going to try to look for people who can impartially sit on this jury, and that can be a significant challenge in a small community. here's what the arbery family attorney had to say about it. >> it's going to be difficult to find a group of people who have never heard of the case, but certainly we want to be sure that the people who are added to the jury don't hold any bias. that people of color aren't being inappropriately stricken from the jury by virtue of being people of color alone. we want to see a fair, well
balanced jury. >> attorneys tell us that when you have such a wide jury pool in such a small community, they estimate that about one in every 50 people here received a summons in this case. they say it could take a week or even two weeks for this jury to be seen. it's this process alone could take some significant time. >> and the suspects in the case were not charged until the release of the graphic video of the shooting. just how key will that video be in the trial? >> you know, jose, this case is like a tragic mash-up of the trials of the killers of trayvon martin and george floyd. so trayvon got hunted down by a so-called neighborhood watchman. in this case, the defendants claim that they were just trying to protect their community from criminals. and like in the trial for george floyd's murder, video is going to be the prosecution's star witness. derek chauvin was convicted, but we see many other cases in which videos of black men being killed
does not lead to the conviction of their killers. >> ahmad arbery was jogging and the video really shows just what happened. paul butler, catie beck, thank you very much for being with me this morning. we continue to follow breaking news. former secretary of state colin powell has died of covid complications, despite being fully vaccinated. we'll talk to a doctor about it, next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. when you're driving a lincoln, stress seems to evaporate into thin air.
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37 past the hour and we are continuing to follow the breaking news this morning about the death of former secretary of state colin powell. in a statement posted on facebook, his family announced that powell died of complications from covid-19. former vice president dick cheney released a statement that read in part, "i'm deeply saddened to learn that america has lost a leader and statesman. general powell had a remarkably distinguished career and i was
fortunate to work with him. he was a man who lived this country and served her long and well." join me now is nbc news pentagon correspondent, courtney kube, and dr. joseph varon, the chief of critical care at united memorial medical center in houston. courtney, what can you tell us about the legacy that general powell will leave behind? >> in a word, jose, he will be remembered always as a trailblazer. so as a young man in new york city in college, he joined rotc, and then he got out -- he became a young second lieutenant in the united states army and then he did two tours in vietnam. when he came back to the united states, he served in a number of increasingly more senior positions and ultimately became the deputy national security adviser to frank carlucci, and then became the national security adviser himself. a lot of people forget that. when h.r. mcmaster was nominated to be the national security adviser by donald trump, he also was serving in uniform and people scrambled and said, what's going to happen here? we forget, colin powell actually
did that first, as a three-star general, he was the national security adviser. after serving in that role for president ronald reagan, he then became the chairman of the joint chiefs, and there he shattered more ceilings. he was the first african-american chairman of the joint chiefs and he was also at 52 years old, he was the youngest person to serve in that role. as the chairman, he had a number of what were seen as very victorious positions or things that he served through, including desert storm and desert shield. now, after he left as the chairman, when he retired from the army, that was nearly 30 years ago, jose. there was a lot of speculation that because of his popularity, that he might run for office, and he might ultimately be the united states' first african-american president. well, ultimately, we know, jose, he chose not to go into politics, but he was pulled back into politics by president george w. bush as the first secretary of state, shattering another ceiling there. he was the first african-american, and a lot of people don't realize this, but
at the time, he was also the most senior african-american in the federal executive service. what that means is, fourth in line to be the president until barack obama came along. he was the most senior civilian, also, in the united states government. so, jose, he served in a number of positions and he will be remembered, as we heard, even just this morning, only moments ago from the current secretary of defense, lloyd austin, he said he was someone who he frequently turned to for counsel, for advice. he was a mentor to him. colin powell, as a black man, he was a mentor and he was someone who a lot of african-american men and women looked up to in the military and in the civilian world. he will be remembered in that way, jose. >> yeah. dr. varon, general powell was fully vaccinated, but had been battling multiple myeloma. for those who might have questions about why he died even though he was fully vaccinated, how could a disease like
multiple myeloma make them more susceptible to getting severely ill from the pandemic. >> from day one of the pandemic, we have learned that people who have chronic immunosuppressive diseases, any disease that will suppress your immune system, can get you in trouble. it can be long-term diabetes, any kind of a cancer. and multiple myeloma is one of those slow cancers that affect mostly your bones. and that decreases your immune system. in addition, even if you're vaccinated, you don't mount the immunological response that you should have. that means the antibody levels that you are mounting are not as good as somebody that would not be having any kind of immunosuppressive disease. this is extremely important, because, you know, i think that it also teaches us that we are not to drop our guard right now. even if you are fully vaccinated, you can still get in trouble. >> and so the boosters here are key for everyone, but especially
for people that have preconditions like this. >> absolutely. and that's why, you know, when the guidelines came out, the very first ones that we went forward, people over the age of 65 and anybody that had any condition that decreases their immune system. so, clearly, mr. powell was one of those that really required the vaccine. >> dr. joseph varon and courtney kube, thank you both for being with me this morning. still ahead, an nbc news exclusive on the plans to form an intelligence cell to monitor the movements of migrants. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. michael: more than 100 years ago.
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rows a. what does this mean? >> this means that there were lessons learned from those 30,000 haitians that ho showed under a bridge. you can tell on social media when there's a movement of people amassing in a certain city like they are now in northern colombia on their way to the united states. you would think that the united states would be on top of that. but as we learned recently, a lot of times these groups can take dhs by surprise. so i'm told that this will help them do two things. one, help them allocate resources to particular areas of the border when there may be a surge. when those haitians showed up, there were about 6,000 one day and 22 portable toilets. they want to be able to get better resources to those areas. but also, they want to be able to interdict what they would call disinformation campaigns that are spread on social media. you'll see on facebook sometimes, people posting though these groups, look, if you pay me today, i can get you into the united states. this is the last day they'll take you in. spreading false information about the policies of the biden administration and about the u.s. government and giving people false hope. they're trying to interdict a
lot of that, as well. now they're pulling people from the coast guard, from custom and border protection, and i.c.e., and from the office of intelligence and analysis together in one place, trying to track these movements, work with people in the region, even work with the cia and other members of the intelligence community to figure out who's coming to our borders and when that might arrive. >> it's so interesting, because, julia, you and i were speaking about this just a couple of weeks ago. the government of panama tried to reach the administration to let them know that there were tens of thousands of people going up to the jungle areas and they couldn't get through to anybody. now you need the cia, the fbi, drones, and everything else to tell them who these people are. alma, at the same time that this is all happening, the bide administration is having to restart mpp, the trump-era remain in mexico policy that sends people back to mexico to await their legal proceedings here in the u.s. this is a policy that the president himself has called inhumane. so how can he enforce it?
>> well, there's a court order, both federal and a supreme court order that stated that it has to be reinstated, because it was dismantled inappropriately and not according to the administrative procedures act. so they have to act in good faith and reinstate it. however, of course, the government has its hands behind its back in terms of, we want this over, yet we have to reinstate it. so i guess they'll reinstate it temporarily, until they find the correct way to unwind the program, so that they can have a more humane and just procedure for hearing these cases in the united states. >> alma, and you deal with this on a daily basis. it's part of your job. how does the mpp and others make, for example, the process of asking for asylum difficult for people who have probably had the worst experience of their life reaching the united states and they're asking for your help, which you do, which you
give. how does that process mpp complicate people's right to ask for asylum? >> it totally distills the process. as it is, we have a 20% percentage of approval rates nationwide for asylums distills process. as it is we have a 20% approval rate for asylums within the united states. now, if they're going to be processing abroad with video conferencing, without a right to legal counsel or without even legal counsel period, they can't afford it and it's not available, of course the procedure will be diluted and the possibilities of winning eve an viable asylum case are greatly reduced because of the conditions. so this mpp program may have in some way halted more illegal entries to request asylum. however, on the other hand, it is diluting the procedure and due process as well for those that want and need to proceed on an asylum application.
>> and julia, part of this intelligence plan is working with central and south american countries. what does the united states' relationship look like with these country right now. >> >> they're working on it. we've seen it. they talk about addressing the root causes of immigration, but something that we're experiencing now that's different from what we've seen in the past, jose, is immigrants from countries like haiti first going to south america, spending years there, and now on their way to the united states. so a lot of these countries are dealing with people living within their own country who aren't nationals of their country. so right now they're trying to work with the united states saying that if there are magnets of the united states, whether they're false or true, that those magnets are creating waves of migration coming through their country. so i think they would be eager to work with the united states, but there are a lot of agreements they would have to come to to get access to things
like aerial surveillance. if you're bringing that into someone else's country to understand migration movements, you have to get that approval first. we what we understand is there's a short-term plan setting up the cell and the long-term plan is dependent on relationships with those countries. >> and we're going to be seeing more and more migration waves throughout latin america, and throughout the world. i mean, think of just the humanitarian crisis in venezuela, how millions of people have been forced to leave that country alone. julia, thank you very much for being with me this morning. zblrngts still ahead, russia makes a major announcement about nato. what it means. ut nato what it means. (man 1) higher. (man 2) definitely higher. (man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah!
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you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ 56 past the hour. time to get the headlines beyond our borders. this weekend a colombian businessman and close ally of venezuelan president was extradited to the united states. in response, the venezuelan government suspended talks with the u.s.-backed opposition. here with more is nbc's allie. the government of venezuela is clearly scared of what alex saub could tell the u.s. authorities. who is this guy? >> we know he's a 49-year-old
businessman of lebanese origin. he's also valuable to the government, otherwise they wouldn't have been so vocal about his arrest, and extradition. look, this is a man who has been doing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of deals with the venezuelan government at a time when colombia wouldn't go anywhere near them because of uncertainty over the financial markets in venezuela over hyperinflation and devaluation of their currency. the government has essentially accused the u.s. of kidnapping alex sob when he was refueling his private jet in cape verde. it was making a refueling stop there when it was on its way back from iran, a close ally of the government on the way back to venezuela. the government have responded by suspending talks with the u.s.-backed opposition which is only to the detriment of the venezuelan people, and of
course, they also arrested six venezuelans, five of them have u.s. citizenships who work for a houston-based oil refinery those six men were under house arrest. they got transferred to prison as soon as sob was extradited. it's unclear whether the two incidents are connected. but the timing is certainly suspicious. >> and ali, in other big news today, russia announced the suspension of nato. what does this mean? >> that's right. they have suspended their mission to nato over a diplomatic spat with their alliance after the alliance expelled eight russians they accused of spying. essentially saying they were undeclared intelligence officers. the russian foreign minister said this is going to be irreparable damage between russia and nato.
he said they are not interested in any dialogue with russia and therefore they should dispense with the possibility of normalizing relations in the future. russia accuses nato very provocative military exercises along its border. something nato also accuses russia of. but nato says that they are going to protect the interests of their member states in the region, and they also added that they haven't heard anything from russia about the lowering of diplomatic relations between them. >> and ali, you're in london. what's the latest on the member of parliament that was stabbed over the weekend? >> that's right. boris johnson, the prime minister here, is holding a special session of parliament today where mps will have an opportunity to pay their respects to the member of parliament that was murdered. the uk government is also considering enhanced security
measures such as police protection, for members of parliament when they meet with their constituents. of course, being able to have access to the public is a very important part of the political system here, so that's going to be a very difficult decision to be made, but, of course, this is the second mp to have been killed in five years in a similar fashion. >> ali in london. thank you very much. that wraps up the hour for me. you can always reach me on twitter and instagram. be sure to follow the show online. thank you for the privilege of your time. chris jansing picks up with more news right now. good monday morning. i'm chris jansing in for craig melvin. we start with the breaking news. the death of an american hero. former secretary of state colin powell died this morning of