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tv   Alex Witt Reports  MSNBC  October 17, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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his feet and heading home to new york where he's expected to continue treatment. he was seen leaving uc irvine medical center around 8:00 a.m. in southern california with his wife and former secretary of state hillary clinton on his arm. he gave a thumbs up and then proceeded down a line of health care workers, shaking their hands. his doctor releasing a statement this morning reading in part, his fever and white blood cell count are normalized, adding, on behalf of everyone at uc irvine medcon center, we were honored to have treated himd and will continue to monitor his progress. he was admitted last tuesday and diagnosed with a your logical infection that spread to his blood stream. he was treated with antibiotics intravenously rather than orally, and that extended his stay at the hospital. the 75-year-old was in town, in southern california, for a private clinton foundation event. his unexpected stay at the hospital, five nights, now
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appears to have ended and he gets to head home. >> i'm sure he will welcome a good night's sleep. those doctors weren't messing around with him. let me tell you, when you have an iv in you around the clock, you're not sleeping wem, but it looks like it all worked out for the best. thank you so much, emily, in uc irvine's medical center. >> breaking news on a reported kidnapping of americans in haiti. the ap, "new york times," and "washington post" are reporting that aid groups say 17 missionaries, most of whom were americans, are believed to have been abducted yesterday afternoon in a town just east of port-au-prince. let's go to sam brock who is joining me from little haiti in miami. sam, welcome to you. nbc news, we're working to independently confirm all these details. what are you, though, learning so far? >> that's where things stand now. i'm in little haiti in the miami area. good to be with you. what a contrast, watching all these families walking to and from church today, going out to lunch. as right now, the country of
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haiti is being besieged with turmoil, that has been the case for a number of months, but it's gotten worse after the assassination of its predin july, an earthquake in august that kills 2,200 people and displaced thousands more and now we're learning about a new kidnapping that is quite alarming. "the washington post" at this moment reporting a whatsapp message or a prayer alert was sent out for members of the christian aid ministries who were allegedly abducted, described as being held by armed gunmen, men, women, and children. they also reported thad were making a site visit to an orphanage and were on their way to an airport when they were abducted. i'll speak to another orphanage there unrelated to this, that they took a helicopter out because of the fact they can't drive on the roads in hata. it is that gang infested. these are the conditions under which people there are living at this moment. you'll recall seeing tens of thousands of people, as many as 15,000 haitians coming to the border with texas, trying to
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find refuge here. now, u.s. congressman adam kinzinger spoke about the urgency for finding these americans. >> we need to track down where they are and see if negotiations without paying ransom are possible or do whatever we need to on the military or police front. praebd everybody watching, at least one or two, i guess kevin bacons away, know somebody who has been a missionary to haiti at some point, and so this hits home. we keep them in our prayers and the u.s. government will do everything we can to get them back. >> alex, it is notable we have reached out to the u.s. state department. they have acknowledged reports of these kidnappings but have thought confirmed the kidnappings themselves. they said, quote, the welfare and safety of u.s. citizens abroad is one of the highest priorities of the department of state. we're aware of these reports but have nothing additional to offer at this time. according to the united nations, there are some 328 reported
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kidnappings to the haitian government in the first eight months of this year, which is about 100 more than all of last year. a wave of kidnappings that involve in some cases preachers during the middle of their sermons, kids kidnapped off school buses, police officers, all sorts of harrowing, unconscionable situations and now we learn of a potential kidnapping of 17 americans. staff members, and their families, according to these reports. we're working to get more details ironed out. >> yeah, these are missionaries that we're talking about. it's all pretty horrifying. thank you, sam, for that. we're going to discuss more on this as i'm gared by gary pierre pierre, founder of the haitian times. this is distressing. tell me what you are hearing from your reporters on the ground. >> well, thanks for having me, alex. the situation as we have been reporting hasn't been very good for quite some time. as your correspondent mentioned, preachers have been kidnapened,
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live on facebook. everyone is not spared. no one is safe. it's been that way for quite some time, like i said. this is part of the wave that we have seen of people trying to leave haiti. the dominican republic has seen a spike in people leaving. so right now, we are reaching the last gasp, if you ask me, because up until then, alex, our reporting told us americans, white americans, were spared. in fact, gangsters, they were afraid of kidnapping white americans. and here we are today, discussing about 17 or more americans who have been kidnapped. so this is yet another story of the breakdown of civil society. where police are afraid to attack gangs and when they try to attack the gangs, they get arrested, their equipment is
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confiscated and they have to negotiate with the gangsters to get their equipment back. and this is unfortunate because haiti didn't have to get to this point. you know, we are entering a dangerous zone. and at some point, the haitian government has to step up, such as it is. this is not something you can just keep asking for outsiders to come in and help. yes, absolutely, but the first step has to be taken by the haitian government in dealing with this problem. >> gary, though, when you say this, you wrote just last friday about all of these numbers of kidnappings in haiti, gangs out of control, how violence, though, may be connected to elites and politicians. i mean, are these criminal gangs? i'm curious what was the connection there? >> well, the connection is such that they are involved. the private sector has its own private port, meaning that no one knows exactly what's coming
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into the country right now. we don't know, because alex, haiti's police force is under strict limits on what arms and ammunition it can buy. so one has to ask the question, so where is this all coming from? how are they getting in the country? and most likely, it's from these private ports. also, these gangs were once controlled by political parties. and some of the private businesses. now, they are working for themselves. they realize they don't need a patriot. they can do the work themselves. this is why the situation is out of control now. but at the end of the day, alex, the haitian government such as it is has to take the lead and try to solve this problem because it's getting out of control. >> it is clearly getting out of control by the description that you have offered us and sam brock as well. we're going to stay on top of this and have you back if you get any more information on the
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fate of these americans and we're also going to work with the state department to get an update as well. thank you so much. pretty horrifying situation there. >> meantime, let's take a look at the other top stories today. a very busy week ahead on capitol hill as the january 6th select committee is gearing up for a vote. this to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt after the former trump aide was a no-show for his deposition last week. with more subpoenas on the way, one member of the committee, adam schiff, saying this morning he has questions for the former president himself. >> one of the biggest black boxes in terms of the unknowns is donald trump's role. we know he incited the insurrection, but what was he doing on the day of the insurrection, why didn't we have troops come re-enforce the capitol more quickly? and what did the president know about the propensity for violence that day in the presence of these white nationalist groups? there are a lot of unanswered questions. >> more on that in a moment. >> plus, my one-on-one
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conversation with dr. anthony fauci. all things covid for you, including booster shots, mandates, and if we could potentially see a fifth wave this winter. >> what are the chances of there being another surge of this or another variant? that's totally dependent on us, alex, because we have about 66 million people in this country who are eligible to be vaccinated who are not yet vaccinated. we have got to get those people vaccinated. if we get the overwhelming majority of those people vaccinated, we won't get another surge. >> all right, you heard that. >> first, the virginia governor's race is heating up. just 16 days until the election that could have major implications for the 2022 midterms. new reaction today from terry mcauliffe as democrats grow increasingly worried over what a loss in virginia could mean for biden's agenda. >> glenn youngkin is against gay marriage, against a woman's right to choose. he's not for the things we care about. he said the single biggest issue
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facing virginia today is election integrity. no, it's not. it's jobs. education, health care, raise the minimum wage, paid sick days, family medical leave. >> let's get the latest from julie tsirkin who joins us from capitol hill. as we noted, a big week ahead for lawmakers and one of the most watched votes is taken by the january 6th committee on tuesday night. >> yeah, that big vote is going to happen in the committee on tuesday, as you mentioned. they're going to consider whether to hold steve bannon in contempt of congress for defying his subpoena the last two weeks. and then after that, the committee is confident they will pass that, it will head to the full house for a vote, and if that passes, speaker pelosi will refer it to the justice department. alex, let's take a step back. the committee wants to hear from bannon and they want to make an example out of him because in part, they want to give all those folks on your screen there a reason to worry if they defy their subpoena as well. the other trump aides that are
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so far engaing with the committee. but another reason which is perhaps the bigger one here, told by sources in the last 24 hours, is because of who bannon is. what he did on january 6th. he, of course, was one of the rally organizers for the stop the steal rally, but also in the months since, he's been having congressional candidates, right-wing candidates on his podcast show, peddling false election claims. bannon also himself called it a litmus test for any future congressional candidate or other candidate who wants to run for office. they need to essentially say the election was stolen in 2020, and the committee is tired of this. they want to get the truth. one of two republicans on incommittee spoke about the process against bannon. here's what he had to say. take a listen. >> this, you know, potential criminal contempt referral or will be criminal contempt referral for steve bannon is the first shot over the bow. it's very real, but it says to anybody else coming in front of the committee, don't think you're able to just kind of walk away and we're going to forget about you. we're not. this is about the ten-year argument.
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what are our kids going to think when they read the history books? who is going to win that argument? i have always believed since i have been a kid in sunday school that truth needs to win out. >> so despite how long this process might take, if you had any doubts the committee was united on this, well, you heard it there from adam kinzinger. he along with liz cheney are the two republican on the committee. he believes bannon and any other witness who defies their subpoena should be held accountable and should be punished. >> okay, julie, thank you so much for that update from capitol hill. we'll see you again. well, as provocative headlines go, the one we're going to show you in the next segment raises eyebrows and at the same time, it is standard fare in a post trump world. we'll talk with peter baker of "the new york times" about that story and how he is related to it next.
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the president's build back
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better plan may be one step closer to reaching his desk, but could be at the cost of a hallmark of his climate agenda. democrats are now likely to drop the clean electricity program from its massive spending bill due to opposition from joe manchin. nbc's monica alba is joining us from the white house to talk about this and more. with the welcome, what does this mean for negotiations? does it mean that with this gone, everything is going to be all kumbaya, or not so much? >> i don't know, alex. that's really a very honest answer given that the status of these negotiations is still so unknown and clearly in stages where massive components of this bill could potentially be removed. that really speaks to the fact that they're nowhere near finalizing a deal. i think that's what's most important to underscore here, the white house has been touting this part of the build back better agenda for months, saying they wanted to get something done on the climate agenda, and all of these events that the president has gone out to try to
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sell the bill, this is something he's raised. he's even held events here, climate summits, where he has tried to talk about this. and on friday, the white house put out a report that said climate related disasters pose a systemic threat to the entire u.s. economy. so if a lot of this is going to be stripped out of this in the end, that is going to be a very tough pill to swallow for this white house and this president. but take a listen to how transportation secretary pete buttigieg framed the talks earlier today on "meet the press." >> what it takes to get manchin on climate, is it going to lose progressives on climate? >> well, if the president is committed to major climate action, he has been from day one. like any maintenance issue and this is basically a maintenance issue for the planet, the longer you take to deal with it, the more there will be costs in livelihoods, dollars, and in lives. this remains a core commitment of this administration. >> remember, alex, the president is supposed to be leaving at the
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end of the month for cop-26, that major u.n. climate summit in scotland where he had planned to tout progress on this. but we're talking about just two weeks away, and it's unclear that anything is really going to be able to progress to a place where the president can talk about it. half of his cabinet is going to be going there, and they are going to, again, be in a slightly awkward position where if this is still tied up on capitol hill, they're going to be asked a lot of questions about how much real bite there is to this in terms of what they are able to propose. remember, we should remind everybody, too, this is democrats who can't agree with other democrats on what they would like to see in this final bill. this is the so-called human infrastructure bill that would encompass and expand the social safety net and is also supposed to address climate change. what we don't know is how much of each is going to end up in the final proposal. >> in the gravity of what climate change possesses relative to the entire world, you know joe biden wants to go to the summit with a win in hand
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and say here's what we got. america is going to take the lead on this. without that, it's going to be tough. monica, thank you for that. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst peter baker, chief white house correspondent with "the new york times." so this is important. i mean, to say the least. can't even be underscored enough here. if the biden administration, peter, is willing to take this climate initiative off the table in terms of deal making, does it signal they're ready to make a el, do just get this done? is that how you read it? >> well, clearly, it's moving that ball closer toward the goal line. you have to make compromises in order to get this through. we have seen there's not enough support among the democrats to get it all the way across unchanged. so this has to be, you know, one of the sacrifices, it looks like, that president biden and the democrats have to make in order to get support from joe manchin in particular. there's so many elements of this bill and so many things president biden wants to do. that graphic is showing right
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now, a smart way of looking at it. in fact, he basically has packaged an entire legislative agenda, an entire presidency, almost, in this one legislative moment so some things will probably fall by the wayside. does look like the climate proposal will fall out at this moment. they're looking for al turnatives. they're looking at a carbon tax, a long standing issue, obviously, a different way of getting at some of the same results. if you get to the final package in the next few weeks, there will be compromises made. >> look, what monica was talking about, though, what the president has to go to, this global climate summit in a couple weeks without the element of the package having passed or even in it, how big of a disappointment would that be in the biden white house? >> i think you're exactly right to point that out. i do think there is a skepticism on the part of a lot of other countries about whether america is going to, you know, stand up
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and really take aggressive action after the last four years. i saw that, you know, with president trump's administration, they backed out of the paris accord. he mocked climate change as a hoax. he didn't take it seriously. >> peter, doesn't the rest of the world just kind of throw their hands up in disgust and roll their eyes and go, that's donald trump. that's not america? >> well, that's the question they're asking. is it america? because in fact, they're saying why do we think something is going to happen that will be a sustained effort under president biden if he can't get something through congress, hiown congress, and president trump is waiting in the wings to run again? there's a lot of uncertainty in other countries about where america is heading on this issue and many issues. >> what do you think both of these bills will get done, do they stand any chance of being passed by halloween? >> well, that's the deadline they have set. obviously, congress works better when they have a deadline. the problem is it's kind of a false deadline, a deadline they arbitrarily set as opposed to a deadline that has real teeth in
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it. we have seen already that deadlines can come and go if there's not any actual consequences to breaking them. the kind of deadlines that tend not to actually force action are the ones where if you don't meet them, you close the government or you default on your debt. in this case, it's an arbitrary deadline, so it's possible it's done by then. no question that the longer this drags out, the harder it is on president biden. his numbers have gone down, in part, i think, because people are looking at this and saying where is the -- where are the results here? you promised us action, and right now all we see is a lot of squabbling on capitol hill. they have a real interest in getting this done in the near term. whether they can or not, big question. >> look, this halloween, october 31st, deadline, tell those running for election it's arbitrary, on tuesday, two days later. this is important for them, the democrats. >> that's right, exactly. terry mcauliffe is watching this closely inverge verge. he's running for governor again.
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he was governor before, and he's in a tight race against glenn youngkin. nobody would have thought a few months ago the race would be this tight. the democrats are attaching a great deal of important to the virginia race that may help motivate people on capitol hill. off year elections don't always mean everything we say they mean. we attach a lot of importance to them, but at this particular moment, it's sort of intertwined with the politics in d.c., the politics of congress, and in that sense, takes on heightened meaning much more than you would normally see. >> we'll talk about virginia specifically in a second. before i let you go, you might have heard the tease before the commercial when i was talking about you. something in the new york. by your wife, susan, it's titled the trump presidency is still an active crime scene. she writes it's hard to consign the trump years to the history books and we remain in the middle of the kreis that it sparked. tell me what are the biggest unanswered questions that remain from the trump presidency? >> oh, my gosh, so many. it's extraordinary.
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this is a four-year period, of course, when all the norms and all of the institutions and all of the traditions and the rules and lines in the sand we thought were so hard and fast turned out not to be. time and time again, he showed he was willing to cross boundaries that no other president had crossed in modern times, leading up to january 6th. i thought adam kinzinger who you showed earlier, i think it was -- >> it was. >> maybe it was adam schiff, one of the adams was pointed out correctly we don't know what happened on january 6th with the president inside the white house. we have a few of hitweets. he put out a video late in the day. we have some sporadic reporting by journalists, but we never had a full accounting of what he was doing while his supporters were ransacking the capitol and threatening to hang his own vice president. that's something by itself would be a huge question that we want to try to get some clarity on because i think it goes to his, you know, state of mind and the kind of, you know,
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responsibility he has as a leader for what happened on that day. >> listen, for what it's worth, adam kinzinger, adam schiff, both have made some pretty significant statements today. so the beginning of the end, dr. anthony fauci says one thing will decide whether covid numbers keep going in the right direction, and he joins me to explain next. - had enough? - no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.
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new challenges are mounting for president biden's vaccine mandate. as some groups push back against the requirements set to take effect soon. on thursday, biden addressed the mandates and how well it's going. >> it's working. we're making progress. nationally, daily cases are down 47%. hospitalizations are down 38% over the past six weeks. >> joining me now is dr. anthony fauci, director of the national
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institute of allergy and infectious diseases. a man frankly who needs absolutely nointroduction, but it's good to see you. thank you for joining me. >> good to be with you. thank you for having me. >> let's get to the vaccine mandates because it seems to be working and getting more people vaccinated. you know, especially health care workers, however, as you know, there are tens of millions of unvaccinated americans who are still refusing to get the shot. you have government officials, they have tried to encourage tem, tried to lead by example, threaten their employment through mandates, limit their social activities. what is left, sir, in the toolbox to get more people vaccinated and get beyond this pandemic? >> well, i think we have to do things on multiple fronts. we certainly want to continue to try to convince people of their own volition to get vaccinated. many people who were holding off on getting vaccinated really just need more information. they're concerned. they don't understand some of the things they hear, and they
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need to get explained, for example, about the safety of the vaccine, about the efficacy, about how it was developed. many of those people who were holding off in fact, if you give them information and are patient about it and explain it to them through trusted messengers, will get them to be vaccinated. as you mentioned, there are some who need an extra push. and that's what mandates are about. we find that there is a certain proportion of the people who get mandated to get vaccinated that when they hear the mandate, they say, well, okay, i'll get vaccinated. i didn't want to do it, but now that there's a reason, namely, i don't want to lose my job, and i don't want to be put in a difficult position, that they get vaccinated. as you said a moment ago, mandates are working. i think a combination of mandates together with continuing to try to persuade people short of mandates by trusted messengers, giving them the appropriate accurate information, i think we'll
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continue to get more people vaccinated. we absolutely need to. because we're heading into the colder weather, into the winter months when people are more indoors. than they are outdoors, and as you said, we have about 66 million people in the country who are eligible to be vaccinated but who have not yet been vaccinated. we really have to get the overwhelming majority of those people vaccinated. >> let me ask you about winter in just a moment. you have hundreds of health care workers who have been fired or forced to resign over their decisions to not get the shot, but these are the very people who worked through every day of the pandemic. they showed up at the hospitals, they put their lives, the lives of their families at riv, potentially. do you think this is a fair outcome for these workers? >> well, the thing that i cannot understand, alex, is that these are individuals who see -- and they're heroes and heroines, i tip my hat to them all the time. it doesn't make any sense how
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they could be there in the icu, seeing people suffering and dying from this isease and still not want to get vaccinated. i can't -- that's very, very difficult to sort of assimilate that into your thinking. how does that happen? how can you be there on the front lines seeing people suffering and dying, 718,000 people in the united states have died from this disease, and you still don't want to get vaccinated? i mean, i think we need to figure out what's going on there and really try and do whatever we can to convince those people to get vaccinated. >> i tell you, i'm glad your as stymied over that as i am. i have not been able to figure that out for those exact reasons, sir. according to the guardian, the u.s. has thrown out millions of doses of vaccines. what responsibility does the u.s. have to the world, especially the developing countries, who could have benefitted tromthee vaccines? how quickly is the u.s. getting vaccines out to any struggling areas?
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>> well, we are doing really quite well, and we realize we need to do more. so let's look at what we're doing. first of all, we're doing more than all other countries in the world combined. so i think people need to understand that. we have either given or are promising and will give at least 1.1 billion doses to people in low and lower middle income countries. we have given or pledged $4 billion to covax, and we're dealing very carefully and closely with pharmaceutical companies such as moderna to get their capacity to make doses much, much higher than they are right now so we can get those doses to the developing world. so we really do -- i certainly personally, and i believe the entire government and certainly the president feels that way, that we do have a responsibility to get doses to those countries that don't have the resources to be able to vaccinate their population. so we take that very seriously.
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we believe a global pandemic requires a global response, and we believe that ourselves, namely the united states, has well as other countries in the developed world, rich resource countries, have an obligation to help other countries get vaccinated. >> i mentioned we would look ahead, so the question now here in the u.s., covid deaths, hospitalizations are expected to decline over the next few weeks. that's according to the cdc, but what are the chances, sir, there will be another delta surge or a different variant surging this winter? will covid eventually become an endemic that could reappear every year like the flu? >> well, first of all, the demuniition in cases is real. i mean, cases are down 23%. hospitalizations and deaths are down 18% and 17% respectively. we need to keep that curve going down. and the question you ask about what is the chance of there
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being another surge of this or another variant, that's totally dependent on us, alex, because we have about 66 million people in this country who are eligible to be vaccinated who are not yet vaccinated. we have to get those people vaccinated. if we get the overwhelming majority of those people vaccinated, we won't get another surge because the population will be protected enough that the virus would not find enough vulnerable people in order to essentially generate another surge. so the real simple answer to your question, it really depends on us and our success or not of getting people vaccinated. and that's something we really need to do over the coming weeks and months as we get into the colder months of the winter. >> let's turn to the boosters because there was, as you know, some confusion during the pfizer booster shot rollout, but now with two additional boosters, and then this possible mix and match option coming soon, let's talk about the messaging, how it's different this time around.
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what did you take away from the first rollout that you think could be improved. >> i think things worked out well this week. it was really rather smooth. there's this question of the mix and match. i hope there will be a degree of flexibility for people, particularly among the johnson & johnson recipients because they're the ones where it's a little complicated in the sense that the booster from moderna and pfizer gave a very, very good boost to the j&j. so the decision is going to be now, when people who got the original j&j, the clinical data that was proposed by the company was very, very good data, showing that a boost with j&j for someone who received j&j to begin with gives a really good response. on the other hand, the mix and match showed the possibility that you could get a boost from another product, for example, moderna boosting a j&j. all of that is going to be sorted out from a regulatory
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standpoint and when the cdc, with their advisory committee look at the data, they'll make recommendations for what the public should do. >> lastly, as we look ahead to the holiday season, the cdc has released guidelines on what to do during the season to try to stay safe. do you have additional advice to offer on that? >> well, my first advice is if you're not vaccinated, get vaccinated. that's for sure. get vaccinated. because it's really, really important. the difference of risk of serious disease, hospitalization, death, infection overwhelmingly favors the vaccinated people. so that's really my first word of advice. then for those who are vaccinated, enjoy the holiday with your family. you can do that. you don't have to worry if you're vaccinated and the family setting, you should just enjoy the holidays to the extent you possibly can with your family. >> all right, well, dr. anthony fauci, what a pleasure. earlier you referenced the health care workers as being heroes. there are a lot of us, myself
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included, who think you deserve that designation as well, sir. thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. good to be with you. a lot of republicans backing their man donald trump may be asking what is he doing? but would they be brave enough to challenge him on it? ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab.
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fast heartburn relief in every bite. crunchy outside, chewy inside. ♪ tums, tums, tums, tums ♪ tums chewy bites we're in the final stretch of the virginia governor's race and new reporting shows dmentds are increasingly worried about the outcome and what it could mean for their agenda. politico writing, if terry mcauliffe doesn't pull out a
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win, democrats are privately predicting a collapse of capitol hill. one longtime democratic aide saying terry losing would be catastrophic for the agenda and one lawmaker saying if things don't go well, there will be a lot of different reckonings here. joining me now, don callaway, susan del percio, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, and david jolly, former congressman from florida and an msnbc political contributor. hello, my sunday family. let's get right into this. don, do you agree, if mcauliffe doesn't win, what does that mean for democrats and the biden agenda? are we hearing him? i'm not hearing him. there we go. start it over again. >> i think -- no excuse for that. the standard in america is it's bad for democratic politically in 2022 because it shows we're
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energized, it shows republicans have a good shot, and that's true, although i don't think it really hurts the biden agenda in washington, d.c. the much bigger picture here is that republicans are attempting to subvert democracy on the state legislative and state legislative and state executive level. we see what's happening in germany with joe raffensperger attempting to steal the election. we see what they're doing with these individualized state audits. so what we can be prepared for if the virginia governor's mansion is red in 2024, is a state-based attempt for republicans to throw that election, the presidential election of 2024 in virginia into some type of questionable status. the fraud claims are amplified when you have a republican governor and perhaps even secretary of state. that's why democrats need to get motivated over the course of these next years and weeks, to make sure that terry mcauliffe, you need to make sure that he wins, so they cannot attempt to
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thwart virginia's election results in 2024's governor mansion. >> you know, david, this is kind of the first major litmus test of the biden administration. whatever happens on november 22nd. what does that tell us about what happens in 2022, and what rides on the results for congress to pass those two major spending bills before election day? >> i think it is a big deal for democrats. look, terry mcauliffe very well might win. and democrats will say, see, we're on the right course. the reason i think it's a big deal, the outcome of this is because virginia has been trending reliably blue. virginia has almost gotten to the point where democrats say it's a solid blue state. a loss in virginia means more than a loss in a pure toss-up state. i don't know if it means a whole lot as the death nell of biden's agenda. but i think what you'll see in these off year races, the national parties come in and do a lot of message testing.
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you're seeing messages around critical race theory, mask mandates, but they'll draw lessons from that and recalibrate. how do we go into 2022 with the winning message. >> yeah, you know the polling out there had republican glenn youngkin in striking distance of mcauliffe. but then this week, donald trump decided to get involved. he called into an event that was headlined by steve bannon. mcauliffe quickly seizing on that moment with an advertising opportunity. take a look. >> glenn youngkin is a great gentlemen. i hope glenn gets in there and he'll do all of the things that we want a governor to do. >> i was honored to receive president trump's endorsement. >> so susan, who does trump's involvement help here? does running against trump, is it as effective as a strategy for democrats when donald trump's no longer in the oval
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office. >> when you talk about the polling numbers, alex, i remember four years ago, ed gillespie was leading by, i think, six or seven points in one poll at the same time northam was leading by 17. it's very hard to gauge the polling on this. one thing is that donald trump does influence. and because it's such a low turnout election, it's never broken the gubernatorial race in virginia, 50 percent. it is all about getting your base out there. and i do believe agree with david in saying, virginia has turned more blue. it's no longer purple. so the turnout operation should benefit mccall. now, what's interesting here when we talk about 2022, the one thing terry mcauliffe has been saying is, yes, i wish i had that hard infrastructure bill to right now, as far as washington, the democrats doing something. so that, i find, as probably the biggest problem facing the
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democrats should terry lose. but i don't see it happening. honestly, at this point, the numbers don't show it. and trends don't show it. >> okay. i hope y'all will sit tight. we'll pay a few bills in just a second, but we'll come back with the matthew mcconaughey factor in texas. that's next. hew mcconaughey facr texas that's next. - oh...oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy. i'm still wowed by what's next. even with higher stroke risk due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin,... i want that. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin.
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that's cool, but ours save us serious clam-aroonies. relax people, my wireless is crushing it. that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. relitigating 2020 is a
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recipe for disaster in 2022. let's talk about the future, the election is passed. it's been certified. it's about the future. it's not about the last election. and that -- those kind of comments are not constructive. >> you heard that reaction today from gop arkansas governor asa hutchison. this to a statement trump released this past week, urging his supporters not to vote in 2022 or 2024 if the republican party does not, quote, solve the supposed voter fraud he's been falsely pushing since last november. my panel is back with me. don callaway, susan del percio, david jolly. susan, you first. this is the leader of the gop essentially telling republicans, hey, don't vote. help me make sense of this, because he could well still run in 2024 and he's telling his supporters, don't vote. >> i can't make sense of it. >> okay! >> let me say, i am very much for voter participation. i think it's an incredibly important thing. i want to see everyone get out to vote.
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but if republicans want to listen to donald trump in 2022 and stay home and allow georgia to happen again and let democrats pick up more seats, i'm okay with that. >> okay. you could have stopped with -- i can't make sense of this, because i was like, yeah, me either. i appreciate what you said. let's move to david. have you talked to any of your former republican colleagues in congress? what do they make of donald trump trying to intensely relitigate 2020 ahead of the midterms? >> look, it's an anchor around what they want to be doing, which is drawing contrast with democrats on politics issue, not about relitigated the last election. what i will tell you, though, alex, no republican has demonstrated how you can successfully separate from donald trump and survive republican politics and a republican primary. so they're all going along with it and their hope is going into november, the macro political trends favor republicans. because they will be unable to distance themselves from donald
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trump and the big lie. >> interesting. let's switch gears here, don. i want to ask you about actor matthew mcconaughey who's toying with the idea of running for governor of texas. the "l.a. times" is out with a new article today, and it reads, while the actor is on the sidelines, some who want to occupy the office have either placed themselves in a holding pattern or are wringing their hands about his possible run. mcconaughey is seen as a potential lock for democrats who have not won statewide office since 1994, even if he has not publicly revealed his position on many key issues facing texans. what do you make to have that? he hasn't even given any indication of what party he would be running for. but if he ran as a democrat, could that be the candidate needed to finally flip the state blue? don, that's you. are you frozen? can you hear me? there we go? >> the l

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