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tv   Yasmin Vossoughian Reports  MSNBC  October 16, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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hey, everybody, good afternoon, i'm yasmin vossoughian. we're covering a lot of news for you this busy saturday afternoon. breaking news in the houston area. at least one police officer dead, several others shot in what officials say was an ambush attack. president biden commenting on that attack at a police memorial event in washington just a couple hours ago where he also praised capitol hill police officers involved in the capitol hill riot. this is coming, everybody, as the clock is ticking down to a vote to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt for defying the committee looking into the january 6th insurrection. donald trump facing his first post-presidency deposition on monday. coming up, i'm going to talk to the lawyer that will have the former president in the hot seat. plus, a texas school that was the focus of accusations of racism now facing new controversy involving a secret recording involving the holocaust. and the latest fallout from the jon gruden debacle in the
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nfl. i'm going to talk to one columnist who says this is just the tip of the iceberg. that's coming up. but we want to begin this hour with breaking news from capitol hill where a short time ago, president biden delivered an emotional tribute to law enforcement who died in the line of duty. highlighting the sacrifices of capitol hill police officers during the january 6th insurrection. i want to bring in nbc's josh lederman to talk more about this. let's talk through some of this stuff, the president comparing the loss of police officers to, of course, the personal loss, the immense amount of personal loss his family has suffered. playing the consoler in chief once again. what he has become well known for. talk me through this, josh. >> reporter: that's right, yasmin. the president, using the emotional story of the loss of his own son, beau biden, to specifically highlight the fact that his son, beau, had been the top law enforcement official in the state of delaware as the attorney general there when he
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died of brain cancer. of course, that was not a death in the line of duty. he was not a police officer, but the president trying to show empathy for these men and women who have put their lives on the line and in so many cases have, in fact, lost their life. what stood out to me was the president specifically mentioning those police officers who served on january 6th at the capitol right where the president was speaking during those riots. the president saying that so much was saved because they put themselves on the line, but that in the process, so much was lost. and of course, he was alluding to, you know, several of those members of the capitol police and other police departments that lost their life, died by suicide shortly after the january 6th events. the president also talking about the great expectations that we place on police officers to deal with so much than pure law enforcement. take a listen. >> always amazes me how the
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public doesn't fully understand what we expect of our law enforcement officers. we expect you to be people ready to stand in the way and take a bullet for us. we expect you to be able to track down the bad guys. we expect you to be the psychologist who talks the couple that are having violent confrontation together to step back. we expect you to be everything. we expect everything of you. and it's beyond the capacity of anyone to meet the total expectations. >> reporter: the president also mentioning the work that has been done, yasmin, on police reform in congress, including the george floyd justice in policing act, but the shadow hanging over these events on this rainy day in washington, of course, the fact that those talks in the senate to try to
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get some type of police reform really collapsed in september and at this point there is not a lot of optimism for progress between democrats and republicans on actually making progress on police reform. >> all right, josh lederman for us, thank you, josh. let's move from the white house to capitol hill. the january 6th committee scheduled to vote on tuesday to recommend a criminal contempt citation for former trump advisor, steve bannon, after he refused to comply with a subpoena. bannon is one of four former trump aides to be subpoenaed. the depositions of mark meadows, kash patel and dan scavino, they've all been postponed for now. the committee's movements come as a capitol police officer has been charged with obstructing justice for trying to protect a january 6th rioter, apparently telling him to, quote, delete incriminating social media posts. julie tsirkin is on capitol hill for us.
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this vote for criminal contempt when it comes to steve bannon, the likelihood they'll vote in the affirmative here and what are you hearing when it comes to actually enforcing these subpoenas going forward? >> well, yasmin, we know that this process to hold bannon in criminal contempt of congress will be a lengthy one. let's lay out the next steps here. tuesday night, the house select committee will get together and vote on a report, essentially, of all the recommendations they put together as to why steve bannon, who defied congress and defied the subpoena for the last two weeks, deserves to be held in criminal contempt of congress. next, it will go to the full house one it's approved out of the committee, which we expect it to, it will go to the full house for a vote. if that passes, speaker pelosi will refer it to biden's justice department and if they decide to prosecute bannon, that could take months if not years, time the committee surely doesn't have as they want to wrap this up before the midterm elections but the democrats are satisfied
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the committee is taking this step, holding people who defy congress accountable, especially those in congress, democrats who have tried to conduct oversight over the trump administration for the last several years. val demings, a house impeachment manager in the first impeachment of the former president, was speaking with tiffany cross this morning. here's what she had to say. >> i am pleased that they are pursuing the criminal avenue to just ignore the lawful authority of congress, the oversight authority of congress, and to ignore a subpoena is just totally unacceptable. so i know that this commission will use every tool within its authority to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. >> reporter: val demings sits on powerful committees like i mentioned. she was a house impeachment manager and that first impeachment, she went on to say in that clip that we are not
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giving up or letting this go. that is what the house select committee is doing as they move forward with subpoenas and criminal contempt of bannon. so we'll see how this shakes out in the next few weeks and months here. >> all right, julie tsirkin for us, thank you. a short time ago, the president also weighed in on the shooting in houston. that left one deputy dead and two others injured. let's listen to that. >> as i was preparing these remarks early this morning in houston, the deputy killed -- one deputy killed and two wounded. we mourn the fallen. we pray for the recovery of the wounded. as i said, i've spoken too many times, too many funerals for police officers. too many funerals for brave servants who kept us safe. >> so, that incident occurred just after 2:00 a.m. in the morning. houston pd says the deputies were likely intervening in a
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robbery when they were shot multiple times from behind. investigators are now calling it a, quote, ambush. >> they were trying to arrest a suspect or detain a suspect, and they were arresting with him when they were ambushed. constable herman's exactly right, we were they were ambushed, shot from behind. >> i'm asking for all our communities' thoughts and prayers for our family. my main concern right now are the families of the three officers involved. and getting them the immediate care and support they're going to need. >> so, houston police took one person into custody, but it's unclear if that person is a suspect or a witness. we're also following some breaking news out of hollywood where a source close to two entertainment unions says a deal is in sight to avert a massive strike. if an agreement is not reached, productions would come to a halt on monday. however, the source told nbc
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news that while both sides have made a lot of progress, there's more than one agreement they have yet to work through and nothing, nothing is settled as of yet. we'll stay on top of that for you as well. so, america is feeling the effects of the global supply chain backup just in time of the holiday shopping season. critical goods from all over the world are stuck right now off all the west coast ports. some of the congestion is due to a shortage of trucks needed to load those supplies and get them where they need to go. scott cohn's on this for us at the port in long beach, california. scott, good to see you on this once again. this is really a mess and it's been quite a mess for quite some time now. ports there are now going to start to operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to get things moving. why wasn't this done earlier? >> reporter: well, basically, yasmin, because they didn't need to do it earlier. it didn't make economic sense. it's expensive to run a third shift, if you can find the workers to do it. they were moving goods through here pretty efficiently up until now.
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we didn't normally -- you don't normally see the kinds of backups that we see now. you don't normally see any ships waiting in the harbor, they say, but now we've got something like 60 of these big container ships. what's changed? well, it's the supply chain disruptions because of the pandemic, all of the demand with all the online shopping, so they've talked about going 24/7 before. now, they're hoping that this problem leads to an opportunity. >> there's a confluence of factors that have led to the situation we're in now. but on the other hand, that's the very reason we should change our model of operation. and going back to the gate issue, the terminal issue, the supply issue, supply chain issue, we cannot continue to operate the supply chain with the model of yesterday. >> reporter: so, this past week, president biden announced a series of agreements aimed at moving to 24/7, but here's the thing.
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these ports in los angeles and long beach where i am are massive. they account for about 25% of the total imports into the u.s. turning them into 24/7 operations is no easy feat. you have to find the workers. you have to get all of the companies on board. you have to just develop the facilities to do this. and so this is going to take a while. and in fact, experts are saying that these log jams could persist well into next year. yasmin? >> all right, scott cohn for us. thank you. still ahead, everybody, off the beat. chicago could lose half its police force over vaccine mandates, the latest on the standoff between the city and its officers. plus the latest decision by the fda on more boosters. what you need to know about getting another shot in your arm. dr. kavita patel is joining me live to break it all down for you. we'll be right back. sfloechl ll down for you. we'll be right back. sfloechl
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welcome back, everybody. so, the battle in chicago over mayor lori lightfoot's vaccine mandate has sparked a flurry of lawsuits between the city and four police unions. the deadline for chicago city employees to report their covid vaccine status passed last night and amid repeated calls from the city's largest police union chief to defy that order, citing fears the force could be cut by 50%. joining me now, nbc's wendy on the story for us. wendy, good to see you this afternoon. thanks for joining us on this.
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what can you tell us about the injunctions here that have been filed on both sides so far? and does the mayor have at all the upper hand? >> reporter: well, i can tell you this. i think this is probably a showdown or a stalemate where both sides are looking at each other and most of us kind of agree at this point, they both blinked, but at this point, mayor lightfoot asked and then got a temporary restraining order because the president of the union's rhetoric on tv and youtube was leading to what she called a work shortage. now, as you mentioned, there was concern that as the large number of people did not comply with this vaccine mandate, meaning that they had to update their vaccination status on a city portal, that the cpd force on these streets could be down by about 50%. realistically, though, yasmin, it actually is going to take some amount of time for the city to gather the data and figure out exactly how many officers
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complied. so, in the meantime, every officer who shows up for work, regardless of vaccine status, will be paid, but remember, that's only temporary. >> all right, wendy, thank you so much for being on this for us. as always, we appreciate it. as that battle over mandating the vaccine heats up, more than hundred million americans could be on the cusp of boosting their immunity after a committee voted to recommend boosters. earlier this week, that same fda committee voted to recommend emergency use of a moderna booster similar to its guidance for the pfizer booster shot, applying to people age 65 and older, those living in long-term care facilities and folks over the age of 18 with underlying health conditions or high-risk jobs. so let's get into this a little bit. joining me to break all this down, kavita patel, msnbc contributor and fellow at the
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brookings institution. we are just days away from a full fda authorization when it comes to johnson & johnson boosters and moderna -- eua, i should say. how soon could those shots be in arms for folks? >> yeah, they could be ready as soon as probably after the cdc committee meets, which is next thursday. so, remember, the sequence, the fda gives its emergency use authorization language, the cdc, which is meeting next thursday on covid vaccines, picks that up, and then gives further guidance, and it's -- that's where kind of the details come for what to do, what not to do for physicians such as myself. so, you could see something literally, yasmin, the next day. now, remember, the moderna boost is half the dose of doses one and two. the pfizer boost is exactly the same as one and two. and then the johnson & johnson boost is exactly the same as the first dose. so you could imagine that, you know, friday, j&j recipients, which is anyone over the age of 18, and so let me emphasize. it's confusing because it's not
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the same for moderna and pfizer. but if you got johnson & johnson, you should be getting a second shot at least two months from that first and only shot that you got. that should be ready hopefully as soon as friday. >> so, i want you to expand a little bit, dr. patel, on the guidance of all this because as we saw with pfizer, as it went through the fda and cdc process, the cdc actually kind of expanded their guidance when it came to the pfizer booster shot, if i remember correctly. do you expect the same thing to happen when it comes to moderna and johnson & johnson? it seems like not necessarily johnson & johnson because they already have this expanded guidance but what about with moderna? >> no, because moderna, in their application, really literally mimicked the language that the cdc landed on. you're absolutely right. the cdc did put a little bit more and remember it was the director that kind of put that on there, that people in high-risk occupations could get that shot also.
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so, moderna literally copied, pretty much, what was recommended and kind of signed off on by the cdc. so, moderna and pfizer are going to look similar. i don't expect any surprises from anybody. but your point, though, yasmin, i'm eager to see, actually, where the fda lands on language around johnson & johnson, because the most spirited discussion was that someone who got a johnson & johnson shot would probably benefit from getting an mrna vaccine, pfizer or moderna, instead of that second johnson & johnson shot but there wasn't enough data to weigh in on that. the fda has the ability to write that language in, and the cdc can pick up on it. so we're eager to see what this looks like. that's where the twist could be, but not with moderna or pfizer. >> let's expand on that able l. a little bit in two ways. first and foremost is whether or not you get a johnson & johnson shot do, you wait to get that guidance when it comes to mixing and matching and if mixing and matching is in fact more effective versus just getting a second johnson & johnson shot,
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then you go with that type of guidance. also, the timing of johnson & johnson. we've heard recommendations from two to six months, so where to you really land on that if you're someone who had a j&j initial vaccine? >> yeah, given that, you know, we're talking about kind of the delta surge declining, but yasmin, you're talking about seven-day case rates that are still way too high for my liking, so i would say that anybody who got johnson & johnson should absolutely get a booster two months later with johnson & johnson or, to your point, i think it is worth talking to your health professional about your circumstance and decide whether it makes sense for you to get an mrna shot. so, at a minimum, everyone who got johnson & johnson needs something. at least two months, second dose, that's exactly what the fda advisory committee weighed in on. two months. or to have that conversation about which you might prefer in terms of an mrna vaccine. i've had some patients where i have said, i think you should get an mrna vaccine. and we have a full approval for
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pfizer, so there's some flexibility to do that. and i think that's where individual conversation needs to take place. but johnson & johnson, you need to get something. the efficacy rates were not high enough to feel like you can be protected months out. >> last question here, real quick. remember when johnson & johnson was first released, it was then subsequently paused for about ten days because this very rare side effect of blood clotting in individuals. is this currently a risk for people getting a second booster of johnson & johnson, yes, rare, but still a risk? >> it's rare. it was not seen in the boosted data population. i would say that's exactly the reason why i would say you should talk to your physician if you're a woman under the age of 50 and you are at higher risk and didn't experience anything with your j&j vaccine, it's worth having that conversation. so, i'm glad you pointed that out. but no, they did not see any risks, so there's no increased risk, and it is incredibly rare, but you know, honestly, when in doubt, have that conversation.
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>> got it. always have that conversation. as i do with you almost every other day via text message and always appreciate it. dr. kavita patel, thanks for being on call for me and my family and everybody else that's watching. all right, coming up, everybody, an update on the hospitalization of former president bill clinton. plus, donald trump about to face his first post-presidency deposition. we're going to talk to the lawyer who will have trump in the hot seat on monday. l have t the hot seat on monday hey, everyone, i'm alicia menendez, ahead r fus on "american voices," trumpism infiltrates the virginia governor's race, the former president putting himself front and center in the hottest political race of the year. and school boards across the country face fights over masks and vaccines. you'll hear from one florida school board official who stood up and spoke out about threats facing herself and her family. that all starts at 6:00 p.m. eastern, "american voices," right here on msnbc. eastern, "american voices," right he oren msnbc. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you
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welcome back. former president bill clinton remains hospitalized for an infection at uc irvine medical center in california, according to a person familiar with clinton's condition. his doctors there are continuing to evaluate whether or not to release him today, saying it's likely he needs another round of antibiotics. a spokesperson for clinton says he is, quote, trending in the right direction after being admitted to the icu on thursday for a urological infection that spread to his bloodstream. hillary clinton and their daughter, chelsea, were seen entering the hospital earlier this morning. the former president was in california for a private event and had been feeling fatigued earlier in the week before being admitted. we're going to continue to bring you the latest on this and his condition as we get it. all right, i want to turn now to toot former president and that the former president donald trump. he's been ordered to give his
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first deposition post-presidency on monday as part of a civil case that hasn't dominated the headlines as much as some of his other legal troubles. the lawsuit is brought by demonstrators who say his security guards roughed them up during a protest outside trump tower back in 2015 before trump took office and despite the former president saying he knew nothing about it, in fact, that may not very well be the case, hence the reason why he's been called in for a deposition. joining me now is the attorney representing the protesters in the lawsuit, benjamin. thank you for joining us on this. i guess the first is most important question is, what is the likelihood the former president's going to show up? do you expect him to? i think we're having some audio issues. benjamin, do you have me? i don't think we have him. that's what happens on live television, everybody. you just lose some audio.
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we're going to try and get him back. so, we're going to take a break real quick. for now, coming up, you got a texas town again at the center of controversy, how a state law prompted this unbelievable directive about holocaust history in the classroom. directive about holocaust history in the classroom >> if you have a book on the holocaust that you have one that has an opposing -- >> how do you oppose the holocaust? >> what? >> believe me, that's come up. >> believe me, that's come up. - had enough? - no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. ♪ it's grilled cheese time. ♪ ♪ yeah, it's time for grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ after we make grilled cheese, ♪ ♪ then we're eating grilled cheese. ♪ ♪ because it's time. ♪ ♪ yeah. ♪ ♪ time for grilled cheese. ♪ most bladder leak pads were similar.
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president's actually going to show? >> well, we have every reason to believe that mr. trump will be there on monday morning and submit to trial examination by video deposition as per the court's order. his counsel have been cooperative this week in terms of setting up the logistics for that. obviously, it involves things like secret service clearance and getting videographers and court reporters in through security up through the end of this past week, their counsel has been professional and cooperative in that process, and like i said, we have every expectation that it should go forward monday without an issue. >> if he doesn't show, what legal remedies do you have in your pocket? >> well, there are a number of things that we could do if mr. trump does not show. the court order is very clear in terms of his obligations, and in the event that he was, you know, not to show on monday or to cancel at the last minute, it would have to be completed by the end of the month, per the court's order. and beyond that, if there was a refusal, which, again, we don't expect any of this, and i understand that some of this
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goes with the narrative of donald trump in general, but we expect him to be there. we expect his counsel to be there. they have litigated this case aggressively throughout the entire five, six-year period that it's gone on but they have done so professionally, and we expect that professionalism to continue on monday, and we expect this examination to be conducted in a professional manner that is representative of the officers of the court on both ends of the table. >> how could your case, this case, affect the ten other civil suits that are currently pending against the former president? >> well, i don't know that it does. this is a case unto itself. i think its significance with respect to other matters of civil litigation might be that this case is a demonstration that mr. trump is subject to the same legal processes as any other person. he is no longer in the office of the president of the united states, and as a result, he has,
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you know, no sort of legal basis to avoid these things as a result of being in that office. now, the court, in 2019, in this case, ordered that he had to appear for trial testimony in new york, notwithstanding the fact that he was the president at that time. the court gave him the accommodation of giving his testimony by video deposition, but it was very clear, as has been established by the supreme court going back, again, like to clinton v. jones in this case, there is no such thing as presidential immunity, but even if there were, that's really no longer an issue. i think that what this case does for other litigants that are litigating with mr. trump is set an example and assure them that our institutions still work and that no one is above the law, including mr. trump, and the civil processes of the court system of bronx county supreme court in this case, they still apply to him. >> this case involved the former president's security guards.
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as i had mentioned earlier, the former president has said that he knew nothing about what took place. the judge in the case says a deposition from the former president is indispensable. i want to play some sound of the former president at some of his rallies. and what he has said in a way to, i guess i shouldn't say, inspire some of his followers to act. let's listen. >> i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like that? they'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you. am i allowed to rip that whistle out of the mouth? i'd rip that -- so, if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? i promise you, i will pay for the legal fees. i promise. i promise. >> i know you can't tell me exactly what you're going to be
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asking the former president, but does verbiage like we just saw, statements like we just saw, how does that play into your approach to the former president? >> well, sure, the wonderful thing about our legal system is that it really doesn't matter what i think. ultimately, it's going to be up to a jury, right? so, i can tell you what i think those statements mean and what they indicate but i won't because i'm not inclined to litigate the case on television, but i can say that a jury will see those things. we intend to show those statements to a jury in connection with this trial, and again, i think it's an important point here that mr. trump is not giving a discovery deposition on monday. he is giving trial testimony. mr. trump is a defendant in this matter and this matter is going to trial. that is a very significant point. this is a case about peaceful protesters who were standing on the sidewalk of fifth avenue outside of trump tower. now, i'm a labor attorney. there's nothing more sacred than
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holding a sign peacefully on the public sidewalk. if we lose that, we lose everything. labor and everyone else. and when you look at what happened on the day, when you look at the videos of what happened on that day, which you featured earlier, and you also look at videos concerning mr. trump's rhetoric, concerning violence, the direction of violence, and so forth, i think a jury in bronx county will be able to reasonably decide whether or not he is responsible for the actions that took place that day. >> all right, benjamin dictor, we wish you luck. thanks for joining us today on this saturday afternoon. we'll be watching. >> thank you so much. >> to say the least. appreciate it. all right, so, the fallout continues today for a texas school at the center of a new controversy. last week, teachers at the carroll independent school district in southlake, texas, took part in a training session, new guidelines for books allowed in their classroom. the training came four days after the board in response to a parent's complaint voted to
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reprimand a fourth grade teacher who had kept an anti-racism book in her class library, and one day after school administrators emailed teachers directing them to close their classroom libraries, quote, until they can be vetted. now a secret audio recording of the meeting taken by one staff member has been obtained by nbc news. take a listen to some of the shocking guidance from executive director for curriculum and instruction, gina peddy. >> we are in the middle of a political mess, and you are in the middle of a political mess, and so we just have to do the best that we can. we're going to do -- you're going to do what you do best and that's teach kids. >> i think we're all just really terrify. >> i think you are terrified, and i wish i could take that away. i do. i can't. i can't do that. >> just try to remember the concepts of 3979 and make sure that if you have a book on the
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holocaust that you have one that has an opposing -- that has other perspective. >> how do you oppose the holocaust? >> what? >> believe me, that's come up. >> i think a lot of people have the same reaction that that one teacher had, which is, what? what book should i be teaching that opposes the holocaust? i want to bring in mike, who has been covering carroll isd's battle over racism, diversity and inclusion in their podcast, "southlake," and it's great if you haven't listened to it. you should. i was talking about this yesterday and i said to her as i'll say to you, what are they expecting to teach these young thirn? "mein kampf"? i want to read a tweet that you put out. one detail from the southlake story i would like to point out, as that administrator was advising teachers about balancing out books on the
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holocaust, carroll superintendent sends an email to every parent in the district that it was even happening. not even acknowledging it. >> that's right. that's right. you know, it's funny, that email from the superintendent last friday went out to parents, basically refuting our reporting that we had done, showing that the carroll school system, in response to state laws and in response to pressure from parents who have been opposing a diversity plan had ruled out new guidelines for what books teachers can keep in their classrooms, telling them if they have a book on their shelf, it can't have a singular dominant perspective that might make someone offended. and so teachers were panicked. reasonably. because you know, how do you weigh that? it's so subjective. do i need to get rid of all books about racism? the district put out that statement saying, no, we're not restricting books, we're not training teachers, and then i got a message from one of the
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staff members who had just been in that training and i remember listening in my kitchen as i heard that administrator give them the advice, if you have a book on the holocaust, balance it out. i couldn't believe it. like many people who have heard that tape, it's hard to fathom. what you're hearing is the result of a lot of confusion that is the result of this pressure from parents, the pressure from the state legislature, the republican state legislature that has passed, you know, a couple of laws that are telling teachers what they can and can't teach when it comes to controversial subjects. for some parents, i guess, how do you know what's controversial for one parent and not the other now? >> this type of kind of vitriol, the infighting in board of education meetings, this, you know, not wanting to teach diversity or have a diverse set of teachers who can help inform and educate children, it's not
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just happening in a place like southlake. it's happening across the country. we're seeing it across the board. i actually saw a video from a connecticut board of ed meeting in which you had an individual who was running for board of ed flashing a white power symbol while he was talking to folks and it was incredible for me to see because it is happening in texas. it's happening in the northeast. it's happening in the northwest. it's happening across the board. is this something that you're seeing? is there a communication happening from southlake all the way up where there is kind of this -- because she mentions it, right, in that audio at one point. she says, i'm not the only one who's saying this. others are saying this as well. >> yeah, i think, you know, one of the reasons that antonia hilton and i have spent so much time in southlake is because we observed that this community was going through a political fight over race and racism and belonging that the rest of the country is now going through but
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southlake's always been just about six months ahead of the curve because of just the timing of things that happened in this community, and so we've often looked to southlake as, you know, as we've been reporting in our podcast, a preview of what's coming to suburbs and communities across the country. so, you know, six months before critical race theory was at every school board meeting, it was in southlake. six months before every school board meeting was about this, it happened in southlake in the spring. we're going to see more of it in the fall across the country and now southlake is at the next phase, now this election has happened and board members who were elected to stamp out critical race theory have taken power and those folks in the community are, you know, feeling emboldened. the district is trying to come up with policies that they think will appease those folks and it's leading to these moments of confusion and uncertainty about what you can teach without getting in trouble. >> it's astounding. it's really astounding and it's
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honestly quite sad to think about some of the kids that are going to have to come up in that school district and be subject to what they're being subject to right now. all six parts are available. you can listen for free whenever you get your podcasts. we'll be right back. ur podcasts. we'll be right back. knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ people with moderate to severe psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, are rethinking the choices they make like the splash they create the way they exaggerate the surprises they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not an injection or a cream it's a pill that treats differently.
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a "new york times" investigation showed personal emails containing homophobic, racist and sexist language. the revelation stunned some fans but not all. our next guest counts himself among the latter. he says gruden's emails reveal a rot so much deeper and systemic than the musings of one man. rather they reveal how the powers that be revel in the ugliest dynamics of their sport. joining me now, dave zirin. dave, welcome. thanks for joining us on this. great piece, by the way. institutional rot, huh? talk to me. >> well, institutional rot is when you have a sport that has 70% black american players and at the top of the sport, in the ownership boxes, every single owner, except for one, is a white billionaire. and the one who isn't, shahid khan, is, of course, not black,
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so you're talking about a massive racial divide in the sport, but it's more than just franchise owners and players. if you look at the ranks of executives and coaches, even if you look at the ranks of offensive coordinators, what are the so-called thinking positions in the sport, that's how they refer to them, those are almost exclusively lily white, and this is a racial contradiction and it's also a powder keg in the sport. and this is why they had to deal with gruden so quickly, because they don't want any hint of racism, sexism, homophobia in the sport because it kind of gives the game away that at the top of the sport, what you have is effectively a country club with an ingroup and an out group and the out group is actually the great majority of the players who play the sport who are routinely demeaned and disrespected by that country club. >> who they all make money off of. >> yes. the joke is -- oh, sorry. >> go ahead, please. no, please. >> just the joke is that being an nfl franchise owner is like
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being a bartender on spring break. you don't have to be very good at it to get very rich very quickly. >> we saw gruden's emails, right? we never saw any of the responses to his emails. i wonder why not. and then, when these emails came out, i can't tell you how many people came up to me and said, what about colin kaepernick? we watched what went down with colin kaepernick. a lot of folks pointed to kaepernick and said, he is being blackballed when it comes to the nfl. he's being left out of the ranks of playing in the nfl. because he decided to take a knee and he inspired others to do the same. what do you make of that? are we going to hear more about this in some of the emails you think will eventually emerge? >> there's a tremendous public pressure campaign to get the nfl to release all of the 650,000 emails. this morning, an anonymous source said to the associated press that a survey of the emails shows that the ones that have been released are the only ones that have racist, sexist, and homophobic comments, and i
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just have to say, if you believe that, i've got this awesome bridge in brooklyn that i want to sell you. they need to release the emails because the fans are demanding it right now. mike florio of pro football talk and nbc sports is leading a campaign as well to get them to release the emails. the issue, though, and this is a very important point, is that the public relations hit, if they don't release the emails on a scale of 1 to 10, probably a 5. if they do release the emails, maybe a billion. so, they have an incentive to keep them under wraps, whether or not they'll be successful in that is going to be all about the pressure that comes from below and it can't just come from fans. it's going to need to come from players and the union as well. >> dave zirin, i want you to come back because i think we need to continue this conversation. we've kind of run out of time but i want to have the conversation of but what's actually going to come of all this. what's actually going to change inside the nfl considering the institutional history of the organization.
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but let's stay there and promise you'll come back so we can continue this conversation. dave zirin, great to see you this afternoon. coming up in our next hour, everybody, the great resignation, why so many workers are rethinking their careers and what's setting the stage for a major labor movement. we'll be right back. for a major labor movement we'll be right ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ tums vs. mozzarella stick to when heartburn hits, ld. fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast heartburn relief in every bite. crunchy outside, chewy inside.
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whose killing is being investigated as an act of terrorism. i want to bring in raf sanchez. walk us through the latest developments that we know so far. >> reporter: yasmin, london's metropolitan police saying the killing of sir david was a terrorist incident and the attacker may have been motivate ed by a radical islamist ideology. they have a 25-year-old british man in custody. he hasn't yet been named. he hasn't yet been charged. but they say they are not looking for any other suspects at this time. the british home secretary is responsible for domestic security. she has ordered an immediate review of security procedures for members of parliament. she's also saying britain will not be deterred from pursuing its democratic values because of this attack. but yasmin, as you can imagine, members of parliament are very rattled by this. this is the second mp killed in five years.
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joe cox, a member of the labor party, killed in 2016 just before that brexit referendum, and both these mps were killed in what the british call constituency surgeries. these are when members of parliament go back to their districts, they set up church, they set up shop, rather, in a church or a community center and members of the public can just walk in without an appointment and talk about whatever is on their mind, and these are seen as key moments in british democracy, but with two mps killed in five years, there are now very urgent questions about whether there needs to be more security at these constituency surgeries or whether members of the public need to be pre-screened before they sit down with members of parliament. right now, both the parliament and the country, very shaken by this killing, yasmin? >> yeah, i bet. certainly some urgent questions that need some answers. thank you.


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