tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC October 14, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
that's gonna do it for us for now, in sort of this unexpectedly busy news night, will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word, with lawrence o'donnell. good evening >> good evening rachel. and you know when you have a guest, who says something absolutely brilliant, and you just want to hear more, and more about it. but the -- that you go to a commercial. that time's up. i >> have been. there >> it happened the other
night, when let's see, when, you've got to hear some of this -- making her first appearance on this program, talking about democrats, said among other things, motivated cognition is a hell of a drug. that was her first line. in response to my question. and then i'm on the edge of my seat. and she then came to the killer line of democratic messaging saying, stop selling the recipe and start selling the brownie. and she kept going from there and i've got that thing, where they're saying stop. at the end of it, instead of a standing ovation she deserved, i had to just say thank you. and she's back tonight. because that's the beauty of having an ongoing tv show. is when that moment happens,
you get to say, okay we've got to get her back. >> and the best thing about repeat, bring it gets back like that, for a repeat performance, is that you don't actually need -- can you just run that by me again? i just want to hear that a little bit more that, i've been thinking about it ever since. you can just kind of say. go because you know already that you want to hear more about which is to say. >> yeah, it is both the segment that she deserves and the audience deserves, it is also the lazy man segment. the lazy man, anchorman segment will be coming up in the middle. >> you know what's, sometimes those are the best. we don't call it lazy, we call a rail where assisted >> yes. thank you rachel. thank you. >> well as expected steve madden despite a subpoena today to testify to the special house committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. at 1:26 pm, the chairman of the january six committee -- announced in a written
statement, quote, the select committee will not tolerate defiance of our subpoenas, so we must move forward with proceedings to refer mr. bannon for criminal contempt. the house is not in session this week, in washington. chairman thompson or issued his statement, from bolton mississippi. the first opportunity the committee will have for the necessary formal vote, by the committee on criminal contempt will be when the house is back in session next week, and on tuesday they will have that vote. chairman thompson told us what to expect in an interview this evening, with joy reid. >> so, we look forward to our day on next tuesday. the public is invited. it will be a business meeting. you will see all the information we have available. and the reason we will put this before the united states house of representative, acts for
criminal referral, if we get the votes, the speaker will then transmit that document to mary garland, and he has to do the job. >> the chairman expects the committee to vote for criminal contempt against bannon. that will then be followed next week by a vote by the full house of representatives on criminal can contempt, i'm assuming the house will vote for criminal contempt. the next step is up to attorney general -- and tonight, benny thompson repeatedly put the focus on the attorney general. >> it's my wishes joy, for the attorney general to decide to expedite the process of the document that we sent. clearly, the law says he has to receive it, presented to a grand jury, indict mr. bannon. and so he needs to do his job.
>> in his interview with joy reid, it was striking that chairman thompson kept reaching back to make a point, reiterate the point, about what he expects from the attorney general. >> given the timeframe that we're dealing with joy, we hope that the attorney general seized the importance of moving ahead with this indictment, moving ahead with locking steve bannon ahead up, moving ahead with clearing the air that you can't conduct it insurrection on the government you of united states of america and nothing happens. >> sentencing for criminal contempt in congress can include a maximum of 12 months imprisonment, and a maximum fine of $100,000. -- steve bannon might not be the only witness facing the charge of criminal contempt of congress. >> our committee, on tuesday
evening, we will do our job. but this is just the beginning. i assure you there are others, if they do not cooperate they'll suffer the same fate. >> chairman thompson suggested that the committee vote on criminal contempt will be unanimous. >> our committee is unified on this, were bipartisan. and i guarantee you, on tuesday night, you will see that bipartisanship. >> and we saw part of that bipartisanship later this evening, when republican -- adam kinzinger said this. >> i think what you're seeing with the potential criminal referral, biased of steve bannon by the committee. hopefully if people misinterpret anything else, interpret this, were serious about this. and anybody that is either being seen petered now or in the future, think twice before
you reject a lawful order from congress. >> in every response, in his interview with joy reid, chairman thompson made it clear that the effectiveness of the committee is now all up to the attorney general of the united states. we >> look, january six joy, was awful. it was not a movement, people saw it in realtime, they saw it with their own tie eyes. and so we have been tasked with the responsibility of crafting a solution. mayor garland, has to do his job in a timely manner. in order for us to make sure that this doesn't happen again, by steve bannon and anyone else, -- and expect nothing to happen. >> leading off our discussion tonight is -- he's a member of the house select committee investigating
the january 6th attack and he served as they lead impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate it. i was quite struck by chairman thompson's interview with joy reid tonight. i felt as if i could have seen whatever talking points you might have jotted for himself before that interview, it seemed like it was just an index card with the word mirror garlic dominant. that seems to be the effectiveness of this committee is now going to be up to the adjourn attorney general of the united states. >> well, right, it goes to the u.s. attorney for the district -- but the u.s. attorney for the -- has a legal obligation to bring this before a grand jury. in the district of columbia. steve bannon committed a crime today, people have to understand that. because it's important that
people obey -- whether it's from a court or -- these are orders of law and you have to comply with him. he committed a crime and so we've referred him for prosecution on criminal contempt. now that might not mean a lot to him, if you've got millions of dollars and trump donald trump pardoned him after he took those dollars from followers -- that he promised to used to build the wall of mexico but he just kept it. but the messages got to go out to anybody who's taking about going down that trump ban in path, that we mean business. as adam kinzinger said. the majority of people who've been subpoenaed bias, or by the department of justice and the various prosecutions, have complied. they understand that this was a terrible attack on the united states government, a terrible attack on congress, in order to overturn our presidential election. and they want to cooperate or at least they understand that they've got a legal obligation
to do it. but the point is not a punitive one, we're not trying to put him in jail. i mean, he's put himself in that posture. we're just trying to get people to cooperate with our investigation so we can give a complete report to the american people about this massive attack on our democracy. >> and, i just want to go over this point that you made about the obligation that the local u.s. attorney in washington d.c. has in this case. because in this chairman's public statement, when he issue the reading the written statement today, saying that they're gonna pursue this. he didn't use that word that you just use, we he said that the u.s. attorney has a duty to present this. that that's in the statute. what is in statute, what is the law about exactly what must happen next? and then where is the space for discretion at the justice department about what happens next? >> well, that is the law. and we view it as the duty of
the department of justice to pursue the prosecution of this person who is in, presumably after tuesday, will be in formal contempt of congress. of course, after the committee meets its gotta go to the full house of representatives. but as soon as the house votes and we find what is obvious to the naked eye, that he has violated the law for the voters of congress, it is believed we believe it is the duty of the u.s. attorney to bring that before the grand jury and the grand jury has the opportunity to indict. all of that is completely consistent with mr. bannon's due process, and by the way he could come before the committee and take the fifth amendment if he thinks that he's going to incriminate himself. if he's not going to incriminate himself, he owes the governments he is honest truthful testimony, like every other american citizen. how many of your viewers think, lawrence, that you know whether they're conservative, liberal, democrats, independent, that they could get in order to go
to court and to provide documents and evidence and testifying, that they would just blow it off? how many people would really think they could get away with that? but sidney bannon has still under the spell of donald trump, who travels with an army of lawyers, these people think they're above and beyond the law. but we're still operating under the rule of law, which is like the operating system of american democracy. and so, we expect and demand that people comply with our orders. >> will you expect and demand that donald trump comply with a subpoena to testify to the committee? >> well he has not been subpoenaed, but we expect anyone who is subpoenaed to comply with lawful orders. obviously, he is making noises about executive privilege. the idea that that might somehow extend to steve bannon's comical and farcical. steve bannon was fired in 2017, several years before the january 6th attack even took place. even for donald trump is a very
farfetched argument, because in a claim of executive privilege this does not adhere to a human being, but all rather to the office, joe biden has said that there is no problem with turning this material over, and even if trump were some how trying to press this in court, what's your weighing is the public's overwhelming interest to know about our own government and the security of our own government. against some certain claim, essentially ascent against national security. but here are the -- national security are on the same side of the equation. they both military it for a disclosure of everything that steve bannon knows, everything that donald trump knows, and every thing that any of us knows. because this was a massive crime against the republic, we haven't seen an attack on the capitol like this since the war of 1812, or an attack on the republic like this since the civil war. congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much for leading off our discussion tonight. we really appreciate. >> thanks for having me. lawrence >> thank you.
joining us now is jennifer palmieri served as communications director for obama administration, she's cohost of serve time circus. also with us paul butler, like -- former federal prosecutor. he's an msnbc legal analyst. jennifer, here we are, at the points of criminal contempt of for steve bannon. we kind of knew this was coming. the speed could not be faster, his due date was today, and immediately upon realizing he's not going to be there, the chairman issued this statement. they're moving it might not seem fast to the, audience but it's impossible for the committee to take action until they are joined to gather in the same place in washington to do it. on tuesday, that full house will vote. this clearly, is headed mayor garland's way. >> you and i both know since we work on the hill, and i was on the white house for these kinds of battles with congress, for a
committee to decide, the same week that a witness was supposed to testify, that they are going to find criminal contempt, is moving with extraordinary speed. it's also different that sometimes white houses, will respect the wishes at a previous president, if they want to claim executive privilege. obviously the biden white house, particularly since steve bannon was not an employee of the white house at the time of the insurrection, they are not having any of that. it's moving quickly, and also you can see, will get to a point where this involves , the committee is setting a very aggressive stance, early on. about how they are going to treat this. and they are not going to, you're not going to see the niceties, or you're going to see them treating this with the dispatch that they think is due to something, to an actual insurrection, trying to overturn democracy.
>> let's listen to what adam schiff told chris hayes tonight about this. >> we don't have something during the last administration, that we have. now we didn't have a justice department that was interested in, justice or the rule of law. we had an attorney general and bill barr that was interested in turning the doj into donald trump's criminal defense law firm. but now we have an independent justice department, with an attorney general that doesn't believe anyone should be above the law, it's a very different expectation. >> paul butler adam ships a member of the committee. when i see that message from him, today very disciplined, he's very disciplined on the message. when i see -- in every single reply, he says merrick garland, he says the attorney general. it seems to me, that the public strategy of the committee today, publicly became, it's merrick garland time. we need the justice department
to enforce, this subpoena. >> in the previous administration, this white house and this president, i have to stay out of this. this is the kind of decision the attorney general makes his own. lawrence, merrick garland is concerned about the independence of the department, he doesn't want to look like you're bringing political prosecutions, against the former administration. but he also has to be concerned about the message it would send if he does not bring a case, unless steve bannon get away with giving congress the finger. nobody likes to be pulled in front of the congress of the united states. and forced to turn over documents and it's submit to a deposition. why would anyone else show up if there are no consequences? >> and, jennifer, when we see the committee moving to this stage of criminal contempt, as quickly as they have.
it's another public declaration by the committee in effect, that we know how urgent this is. we know that if we don't move immediately, we can lose all of the ground here that we have. and the time can run out. we heard committee members saying that they are in some negotiations with some other witnesses. but if they get the feeling that those negotiations are just a delay, game they will hit them with the criminal contempt also. >> and there's two pressures on them. one is the clock, the legislative clock that you point out. in the other is, the insurrection is still happening. i'm in michigan right now. and two days ago, there was a rally at the state capital, to call for forensic audits, in this state, that's not a thing. donald trump put out a statement ahead of, time encouraging all of his supporters, to come rally at the michigan capital. to not disappoint. them he referred to the election as a scam election.
he is continuing this fights, and i know in michigan, they're taking very seriously, the notion that we are not done with 2020. there was a dry run if you will, of an insurrection in trying to overturn the will of the voters. and trump is just lining things up for 2024. so i think the congress wants to continue to battle this threat, that is ongoing. as well as move quickly to hold people accountable for what happened in january. >> jennifer palmieri and paul butler, thank you for joining our discussion tonight. we really appreciate. thank you. coming, up republicans are lying about the biden proposal to strengthen tax enforcement at the irs. no surprise there. but, news reports about the biden proposal, are almost as bad about the republican lies about. that's next. e republican lie about. that's next.
♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪oh no, babe girl, if i could only make you see♪ ♪and make you understand♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for $1 now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. ngexi to treat her frequent heartburn... get a dozen double crunch shrimp for $1 claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. charmin ultra soft has so much cushiony softness, it's hard for your family to remember they can use less. whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria.
sweet pillows of softness! this is soft! holy charmin! oh! excuse me! roll it back, everybody! sorry! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less. so it's always worth it. now, what did we learn about using less? you've got to, roll it back everybody! we all go, why not enjoy the go with charmin. (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. wait, i didn't ruin the ending, did i? (woman) yeah, y-you did. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ and there you have it- woah. wireless on the most reliable network nationwide.
wow. -big deal! ...we get unlimited for just 30 bucks. sweet, i get that too and mine has 5g included. that's cool, but ours save us serious clam-aroonies. relax people, my wireless is crushing it. that's because you all have xfinity mobile with your internet. it's wireless so good, it keeps one upping itself. the new york times, is our best
newspaper. and, unfortunately the new york times is done a terrible job covering the biden proposal to strengthen irs tax enforcement. and most of the rest of the reporting on that proposal, has been much worse, then the new york times reporting. monday's new york times carried the first news report of the proposal, that i've actually read, and when i finished, it i had no idea what the proposal is. the time said, the administration wants banks to give the internal resident service new details on their customer and provide data with accounts with total annual deposits, or withdrawals more more than $600. after devoting the next few lines, to the outrage that has greeted this proposal from banks, the time said, the new proposal, would require they share information about account balances so that the irs can see if there are large discrepancies between the
income people and businesses report and what they have in the bank. the measure would affect more than 100 million households. and millions of businesses. the rest of the article is dedicated to criticisms of the proposal, the varied from ignorance to profoundly ignorance. and at no point, in the article, did the new york times explain to me, what the proposal actually is. what the new york times did, quote a 39 year old woman, they found in los angeles, who works in the advertising business and hate the idea. quote, i wouldn't allow my husband or my parents to monitor my bank account activity she said in an, email there's no way i would be okay with the government doing monitoring it. there's no reason to believe that the woman who said, that knows more about this proposal than i did, when i was reading her quote. having spent some years myself, working in tax policy in the federal government, i thought,
either this proposal is insane or, the reporting on is, hysterical. and terrible. it turns, out the policy is not insane. here to tell you about, it is the new deputy secretary of the treasury, secretary served in the obama administration as the deputy national security adviser for international economics and the deputy director for the national economic council. mister secretary, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. so in the new york times reporting, and in others that i know you've seen, there's this hysterical language about monitoring our bank accounts. they're going to be, the irs is going to be monitoring our bank accounts. if we have more than $600. which is to, say all of our bank accounts, every day, every transaction being watched. by the irs. is that what you're proposing?
>> thanks so much for having, me and no it's not where we're proposing. what we're proposing is making sure our tax system is fair. what we're know today as wealthy americans are less likely to pay taxes. for example, the top 1% of people in our country underpaid taxes each year by more than 150 billion dollars, each year. they don't make money the way that the woman who works in advertising does. or a teacher, or ill lush or, men each one of those people get a w to at the end of the year, that sent to them. and also sent to the irs. it allows us to verify how much money they, made and how much in taxes they need to pay. the wealthy and the other, hand make money by selling assets, buying collecting capital gains, by putting together complex structures like partnerships, that allow them to sell those assets, for $2 million, put that money in their bank, account until the irs that they only made it $100,000. the presidents proposal, ensures that we can find out,
about that, money that these wealthy individuals are in their bank, accounts by collecting two pieces of information each year. one, how much money went into a bank account, and how much money what came out of it. that allows us to fundamentally make the system more, fair so the wealthy are forced to pay their fair share. >> okay hold, it so i just learned, i mean i learn this before but, the audience, we just learned, exactly what this does. this requires exactly two additional pieces of information. about bank accounts. the irs is already getting one piece of information, on every bank account, and that is how much interest did that bank account pay this year. every bank account in america, reports that. reports that to the irs. and now you're saying, you want the bank to also report, what's the total amount of money that went into the, account what's the total amount of money that was taken out of the account. that is the entirety, of the proposal. >> that's what we want to
collect, once each year lawrence. not only helps us find the money that the wealthy are not paying, but it also will help us reduce the chances that people who get it w to, each year that worked in advertising, are audited, because we're able to validate the money reported to the irs, is the money that went into your account. and you didn't have any large amounts going in for some other reason. >> there's also in the information the treasury put out, about at the administration you can direct the irs to handle the information this, way is you have no intention of actually using this information in. anyway, in any enforcement procedure. involving any tax returns of less than $400,000 of personal income. the president has made commitment that our goal is to collect the money from those individuals who are -- who are not paying their fair share, this isn't about raising taxes. this is simply about collecting
taxes that people owe. and we're focused on to electing taxes from the wealthy, because there are the least likely to pay their taxes in this country today. because we don't have a way for verifying how they're selling their assets, and how they're mint how much money they're making from it. the presidents proposal fits with. that >> this is an enforcement tool and really, it's a computer enforcement tool. this is going to have these numbers reported from computers to other computers, at the aires. and the computers at the irs, looking at tax violators who make over $400,000 a year, they're going to look at those cash flow numbers in the bank accounts and see if there is something weird about it. and if there's something weird about it, that will trigger that return being pushed out onto the assembly line there, in an irs return center, for another look. it doesn't mean that there's an audit that's gonna happen after that, it's just one of the
trigger devices that can pop on the tax return out for further examination. new >> lawrence, for the people who pay their taxes on the regular basis, this will reduce the chances that they're audited. and allow us to see information on people who try to hired money from the irs going forward. as you said earlier, it's two pieces of information we collect annually. ana form that your bank already sense to the irs, it's already information that your bank is collecting. how much money went into your account, and how much came out each year. >> you know i have to say, thank you very much for doing us tonight, because when i was reading this article in the times, i know the people who work on tax policy. i know they're not crazy. but for the first time ever, reading a new york times account of a tax proposal, i just couldn't quite believe when i was reading. until we immediately went to work, last word staff, with treasury about what is going on
here, and i appreciate all the clarifications we've gotten. and i'm for sure the audience appreciates clarifications you've delivered tonight. wally -- thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you so much for having me, have a wonderful evening. >> thank you. >> and coming up, one of those moments on those on the show this week, when all i wanted to do was ask our guest to say all of that again and keep talking for another 15 minutes because it was so brilliant. and she will say that again, with no doubt some jazz variations on the way she said it before, when she joins us next. id it before, when she joins us next next what? it looks like a face. ...hearing about it 24/7 is painful enough... i don't want to catch it. well, you can't catch shingles, but the virus that causes it may already be inside you. does that mean bill might have company? - stop. you know shingles can be prevented. shingles can be whaaaaat? yeah prevented. you can get vaccinated. oh, so... i guess it's just you, me and bill then. i'm making my appointment. bill's all yours... 50 years or older? get vaccinated for shingles today.
oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need. sorry? limu, you're an animal! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. you have the best pizza in town and the worst wait times. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire and this week's star is born
hearing is important to living life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find a better life. it all starts with the most innovative technology. like the new miracle-earmini, available exclusively at miracle-ear. so small that no one will see it, but you'll notice the difference. and now, miracle-ear is offering a thirty-day risk-free trial. you can experience better hearing with no obligation. call 1-800-miracle right now and experience a better life.
democrats are saying about the policies they are trying to enact. in the biden legislative agenda. >> what i would say about that is that motivated congregation is a hell of a drug, at by that- in the descriptor of a humid of cognitive processing system would be, i'll see it when i believe it. not the other way and around. when we find an experiment after experiment, is that when people have already cemented a world view, they an essence have a frame around what is occurring, then facts are simply impervious to it. they bounce off of it, right? in lay terms, if you've ever had the experience of traveling to tell your friends that the guy she's dating is a complete and total jerk, and you provide of her with her fact after fact, and they are just going ping ping ping. that's what i'm talking about. but spread across massive issues of social justice and
economic well-being. and so, people are incredibly adept at discounting factual information, that simply weeding it out. not paying attention to it. ignoring tickets. it doesn't fit their pre-existing frame, and so it's precisely as you said, if they have an existing storyline about quote on quote, democrats do and how they behave, then facts are pretty much impervious to it. now, rather than get very very sad about that, because one could, but one still has to go on, we could recognize that we have to speak as or your previous guest were saying, in a way language of values. and more than that, as i often like to tell people, don't take your policy out in public, it's unseemly. messaging about policy is always less effective than what's that policy delivers. so, when we asked people, how do you feel about paid family leave? there are into it. when we say instead, you were there the first time your
newborn smiles? they're way more into it. when we say raising wages, very popular. when we say instead, everyone makes enough to care for their family. way more popular. with democrats need to do, when they do have the mic, is stop's telling the cell the recipe and start selling the brownie. stop talking about the names of your policies and steady speak to voters in an image of will terms about what it would feel like as the reality in their lives. >> joining us now, once again, this is anat shenker-osorio, host of my new favorite podcast, words to -- . thank you very much for joining us tonight. you know, selling the brownie instead of the recipe, was such a perfect message. it seems to me that what happens with politicians is, reporters are always asking
about the recipe. always about the recipe. so they get kind of trained, running down the hallways in the senate and in the house, about answering questions about the recipe. and hearings questions about the recipe. and it seems that they kind of just lose that ability to show you the brownie, and just kind of glow about the brownie. >> yeah, i think that that's part of it. and it's funny, it's really not just lawmakers, when i give trainings or lectures -- they will frequently tell me, yeah that sounds great, that messaging seems really compelling, and it seems like the rape people really talk. but i can't talk that way on the hill. or if i'm doing, training in california where i live. i can't talk that way in sacramento. my response to that, and i say this granted with no evidence, i'll admit that up front, lawmakers or people. i know. i don't have proof, but i'm
going with that statement. and what i mean by that, is that like any other humans they discern information and they filter it through a human brain. which means, like anyone else, they are creature oven to of identity, and emotion. and yes they've been taught to speak in this calcified language of policy, but in reality, we are not good arbiters of would actually moves us. we can only ever know what we think that we think. because the majority of thought is unconscious. and in fact what we know through, primate experimentation, is that people were tell us that it was a fact that moved him, but when we manipulate that fact it is indeed the emotional core of the message that actually is persuasive or not. >> yeah, it's an incredible challenge in this because in the segment we just did, the new york times did a report, for example, about this biden proposal, and it allowed the
reader to believe that the irs will be monitoring their bank accounts. monitoring every transaction in their bank accounts, if they have $600 or more in their bank accounts. which sounded absolutely insane, and it turns out it is insane. the times was not communicating correctly about what's in it. and the democrats had done no, you know, advance work on combatting what is happening in that particular proposal. it seems as if no one sat down and said, how do we talk about this? one you know because they have 100 things they have to talk about, how do we explain this one? and so now they're trying to catch up, to explain something that actually makes perfect sense when you hear about it. >> yeah, i don't pretend that any of this is an challenging. but, nature upholds a vacuum and anytime you're not pulled pumping in information, it is helping and allowing
disinformation to proliferate. which of course, is intentional and deliberate on the part of the other side. but unless there is some -- politics is in solitary, we don't exist in a world in which -- from our side. that be lovely, but that's not reality. and so we have to recognize, just as you said, that anything that we're saying, we need to think through, not just how are people gonna understand it but more specifically, what is it we want to see in people to get them to believe to what we want them to believe. and to do what we need them to do. >> it seems, and you have to reach back pretty far, when policy was less complicated, that there was a time when politicians were better at this. and when i say this, i'm thinking of like robbie kennedy, who didn't ever have detailed prescriptions as a campaigner, or as a politician. but that was at a time when
government was far less complex than it is now. >> yeah, but even still, as many people have frequently remarked, martha lute and luther king junior did not get famous for saying i have a complaint. nor did he get famous for saying i have a multi billeted list of ball policy proposals. i think the professionalization of, not just government, but of advocacy, of movement. -- both in the -- has meant that there is this notion that we need to sound off to the adult in the room, we need to give real detailed policy and facts and if we give fact effect effects. then people will realize that were very serious and an impeachable. when in fact, persuasion is fact neutral. you can have a deeply persuasive argument, that is star studded with fact, and you can have a persuasive argument that has none. but facts will actually never
make your case. if you want people to come to your cause, you need to be attractive. i actually think that, while would you've outlined, the long -- real really detailed arguments equally pull arch part of the problem is something that i let spend a lot of time on. it is our tendency to talk about our opposition in lieu of talking about whatever for. anat shenker-osorio, think you very much for joining us once again. please come back whenever you can. >> thank, you so much. >> thank you, appreciate it thank. you when we come back will get the latest on the breaking news that rachel covered during her hour. the news about former president bill clinton, being hospitalized in california. that's next. in california that's next. that's next. swipe, lift, spin, dry. slam, pan, still...fresh move, move, move, move aaaaand still fresh. degree. ultimate freshness
activated when you move. as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutual ultimate freshness knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done. it's sleep number's fall sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it's the most comfortable, dually-adjustable, foot-warming, temperature-balancing, proven quality night sleep we've ever made. save up to $800 on sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, 0% interest for 36 months on all smart beds. only for a limited time. this is... ♪♪ this is iowa. we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling hills meets low bills.
where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. this is iowa. so, when are you coming to see us? ♪♪ ♪ ♪ your new pharmacy is here. and here, too. it's here to help you save time and money it's here to get you the medication you need when you nees easy? your new pharmacy is amazon pharmacy. you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates oujob description. indeed you do.
that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies. the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. breaking news this evening is former president bill clinton is spending the night at the university of california are
vying medical center, for a non covid related infection, according to a statement from a clinton spokesperson. president clinton is on the mend and in good spirits, joining us now is nbc's steve patterson, steve, what do we know? >> lawrence details obviously slim here with this being breaking, news but i can say based on what we do, no it seems to indicate, some good news. he was administered to uc irvine, on tuesday. we know he's been there a couple of days, now according to those same doctors from the statement that you just read, he is there under simply monitoring, they want to just check his vitals and make sure he's doing okay, according to that statement also, and according to his doctor team back in new york, because they're both in, touch both the teams in california, and in new york, they say he was admitted for close monitoring, he's on an iv of antibiotics, and fluids, and again remaining there for monitoring. obviously, simply too early to confirm or speculate exactly
what this illness is. but it's important to talk about the fact that he's had a myriad of heart illnesses over the, year's 2004, underwent a quadruple bypass surgery, and then in 2010 he had those two stints implemented in his coronary bypass artery. again, important know's history, but it seems to indicate he's doing, while he's lou cities in good spirits. and his doctor team said they hope to have him home pretty soon. >> nbc's steve patterson in los angeles sporting on president clinton being hospitalized in california tonight. thank you very much for joining us, steve we really appreciate. >> and coming, up we have a very big development to tonight 's episode of defendant trump, donald trump is going under oath, monday morning. that's next. , monday morning that's next. ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪oh no, babe girl, if i could only make you see♪
♪and make you understand♪ get a dozen double crunch shrimp for $1 with any steak entrée. only at applebee's. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. t e didn't know with any steak entrée. what was right for her. no. nope. no way. but then helen went from no to know with freestyle libre 14 day, now she knows what activity helps lower her glucose. and can see what works best for her. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. freestyle libre 14 day. now covered by medicare for those who qualify.
your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast.
make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq. do i need to pretreat my laundry? nope! with tide pods, you don't need to worry. go off-script. the pre-treaters are built in. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ it's moving day. and while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services.
it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours? ...delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. ever wonder how san francisco became the greenest big city in america? just ask the employee owners of recology. we built the recycling system from the ground up, helping san francisco become the first city in the country to have a universal recycling and composting program for residents and businesses. but it all starts with you. let's keep making a differene together. on monday morning donald trump
will raise his right t e truth. donald trump has been ordered by a bronx judge, to submit to a deposition on monday morning in a lawsuit brought by protesters, who claimed trump security guards assaulted them on the sidewalk outside trump tower, in 2015. today, and attorney representing the plaintiffs, told us quote, i can confirm, that we have every expectation, that it's proceeding on monday, we have been making arrangements with council for defendant trump to have videographers in courtroom reporters present a monday morning. i will be examining him under oath. this will be, taped at trump tower, in new york. on monday deposition, can be used as donald trump's trial testimony, when the case goes to trial. he said, quote this is his testimony, that will be presented, to a jury.
joining us now is tim o'brien, senior columnist, and author of the book trump nation, jim was sued by donald trump and won, tim you've won -- he's going to take that oath, and is going to be one sentence away from perjury, every moment he is under oath. and in any civil suit, he can be asked for example, about his net worth. because his ability to pay damages is part of the testimonial base of the case, there's land mine everywhere for him. >> we've talked about this before, lawrence but donald trump's every lawyers, nightmare under deposition, he's a pathological liar, he's undisciplined, he's prone to exaggeration. for journalists, and people like you and me, this is awesome theater, and it comes ideally to the public, record i think the issue in this deposition is. what's kind of me is going to be there, given all the other
issues swirling around him right, now specifically i think, the january six inquiry from congress in the manhattan district attorney's office, financial fraud investigation of the trump organization, and trump himself, for both of those cases, those involve issues that i'm not a sure are going to arise to deposition territory in this case, they can certainly try to ask him about his wealth, and his net worth, i imagine his lawyers will jump all over that, and say that those issues are not directly important to hubby testifying about. they can have a shot about it. and the other hand, go ahead. >> i was just going to, say there's all sorts of obstruction airy tactics that trump lawyers can use in a deposition, including just refusing to answer a particular question, leave the deposition to go to court. and ask a judge in the bronx to order him to answer the
question. all of that takes weeks and weeks to do. >> which i think trump's lawyers going to be more than happy to. do they be more than happy to delay. he did this repeatedly, when we deposed him. we had the power of discovery and our case against, him and got his tax returns. in the first set of tax returns we got from him, were so redacted they would like a cross route puzzle, and they were useful man to go back to the court and asked for real documents. they are very schooled in delay and deceit. on the other hand, trump is so undisciplined, and so poorly in control of his own emotions that he could go off script, and into dangerous territory in this one. i think the other thing they can be brought to the service, and i think it's directly related to this, case is trump's grotesque and poisonous history, as a racist. particularly around immigrants, and immigrants from central america. i think that will be very
fertile to the terms of the lawyers to dig into. >> all of that is relevant in this lawsuit. because the protesters who were hurt by the trump security people, were protesting his position on exactly these issues. tim bryan, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate. at the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. bria williams starts now. well good evening, once again day 268 of the biden administration, and we begin tonight with the breaking news we've been covering this evening. on former president bill clinton, he's hospitalized tonight in california and, at the university of california or vine medical center. a spokesman for the former presidents released a statement tonight, it reads quote, on tuesday evening, president clinton was admitted to ucla medical center to receive treatment for a non covid related infection. he is on the mend, in good spirits, and is incredibly thankful to the doctors, nurses, and staff providing him with excellent care. clinton's doctor says he's been