tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 14, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT
as who can motivate this group of voters into next year. >> nicholas johnston. happy birthday. >> thank you all of you for waking up way too early with us. "morning joe" starts right now. i am immune, i can come down and kiss everybody, man and woman. look at that guy, how handsome he is? i don't know what they gave me but give me some more of it now. i don't know what the hell they give me but i will take some of it now. >> sorry, no for you. >> joe biden held a rally in parking lot. >> god bless you.
thank you. which way am i going? >> can you imagine if you lose to a guy like this? >> yes, we did. >> this is not a time for rallies. some estimated 400,000 deaths from now. >> don't listen to the professor, the light at the end of the tunnel is near. now with senior pence. >> four more years. and ringo is his name-o. >> the fact is i have done more for the black community than any presidents since abraham lincoln. >> laughter is the best medicine and we are going to need it.
this week in "covid history." speaking of flash backs, remember when donald trump held republicans lose two senate seats in georgia by drumming up so many paranoia by the votes. >> donald trump managed to do it. >> and with the midterms around the corner, he's at it again. quote, "if we don't solve the election fraud in 2020, republicans will not be voting in '22 or '24. it's the most single important thing for republicans to do. >> a lot of people are looking at those comments took it as a tale that the guy is not going to run.
hey, look back at 2020 and figure all of that out and create a conspiracy theory that helps me justify my loss there or republicans are not going to win in '22 or '24. it's crazy talk. >> he wants, this is a reaction that'll get into another judge of the state of georgia throwing out a case requested a look at the ballots again. the votes have been counted three times in the state of georgia. joe biden won every time. the statement he put out yesterday was a temper-tantrum which he threatens to withhold his voters for the '22 midterm unless something is done. as you said correctly, mika and joe, he did the same thing in georgia and costs most republicans, many of them
publicly and all of them privately, costs the republicans the united states senate by his actions down in georgia of those two seats to democrats. >> the last major lawsuits over georgia's election had been dismissed. the decision came one day after investigators told the court they were unable to find any counterfeit ballots. after three recounts and multiple investigations reached the same conclusion. in a statement to his supporters, trump criticized the ruling, "the fight continues, we'll never give up." >> and a rally held in georgia at the end of last month. donald trump railed against brian kemp and showing that what
he did in 2020 when he helped elect democrats to take over the senate. >> yeah. >> he's doing now and he's now willing to endorse stacey abrams. i want to read you this quote he has. governor brian kemp running for the election, trump said this to a crowd in georgia recently. "stacey abrams still did not concede, it's okay. stacey, would you like to take his place? having her may be better having you as existing governor. if you want to know what i think, may very well be better."
>> here we are again, willie, i have always said the republicans were day trading and this guy was going to do more to destroy the party the long-term than anybody else ever could on the republican side. if you are a georgia republican and you have seen donald trump elect ralph warnock and jon ossoff and now you have stacey abrams is going to be running against brian kemp. donald trump is telling his base don't vote for kemp? vote for stacey abrams. if you are a georgia republica, you got to be thinking this guy is a cancer. >> this is a guy who everything go to the prism of his ego. if he didn't do enough for help
donald trump to overthrow the 2020 election, he's got to go, too. the national star becomes the governor of the state, so be it. that'll feel better for donald trump. elise jordan is with us. donald trump perhaps for a moment, some republicans drifted away from him after january 6th but about a week later they all came back and now if you watch their interviews, every one of them again is bending a knee and going along for a ride of the idea that the election is in valid and still overturned, they're going along for the ride on this. they're going to go down with him. if stacey abrams become the next governor of georgia, it will be because of donald trump. >> that's what kills me. donald trump has no loyalty to these republicans who is want to benefit by hanging from his coat
tails, still. he does not mind. he openly rallying against mitch mcconnell and his goal of getting the senate back. i don't understand why they didn't kill it off once and for all when they had the chance. >> the danger of this story and the extreme is his mouth and his disease ego put in place of our political system is a success for donald trump. he managed to get the idea out there that the election of 2020 is rigged. state after state led by republican legislatures have now try to enforce going forward, their own rigged election laws with regards to 2022 and 2024 specifically. and that is the danger that
america faces right now. that infection is deep and wide. it's put there by a former president of the united states. it's the most dangerous thing occurring in democracy. it's playing out in plain view, sometimes people think it's amusing listening to him but he's deeply threatening and dangerous. >> if you listen to raffenberger that he says president trump costs himself in the state of georgia. don't vote absentee and he caused two republican senate seats there. as elise says, republicans from the top all the way down happy to hitch their wagon to donald trump on this ride. >> well, he certainly did. he costs himself during the
election and ron johnson, i can't believe i am saying this hat a stut analysis. listen, state legislatures and statewide candidates and the republican party, you go through it, they all get roughly the same number of votes, except for donald trump. he had about 55,000 or 65,000 less votes. there were people that would not vote for him. that made all the difference. we'll be talking to david in a second about the beatles. >> a little break. sort of. >> that's a subject i can't wait to talk about. we rightly focus on the all the dangers that donald trump presents to our democracy and what he presents to the rule of
law and what help presents the values that have made this country what it's been when you look at constitution and the way we move forward. but, if you are a republican, you have to be looking at this guy quietly and saying wait a second, he's done something no other presidents have done. he lost his house and the senate. he lost the off-year election. he lost georgia. now he's endorsing stacey abrams over brian kemp. it's a nightmare for all parties involved. it's not a bargain for republicans even politically. >> no, maybe not. maybe not. on the other hand you saw charles grassley honestly going in front of his buddies and say,
look, some vast majority of republican party supports donald trump. i would be a fool not to stand right next to him. therefore saying right in front of trump and the audience that the ball is truth, i would be defeated without him. i think two things. one donald trump has poisoned this country in many ways. he's poisoned the information theories, he's poisoned the courts. he's done terrible damage. the same time he also exposed the country in so many ways. aspects of our history and racism that are painful to witness. he exposed the vigilty.
this could never happen here. i lived in moscow for four years and as a young person i would look around and thinking how could they possibly believe this or how could they participated in a system. now we know that we are as human beings collectively in the face of an effective tyrant. weak and exposed and unless we fight it and do our jobs in our own way whether it's journalists or voters, we are still in an exposed historical moment. temptation has gotten deeper. i am very concerned. >> that's the most shattering.
>> you are right, i grew up with the belief of exceptionalism and donald trump is showing us it's quite possible. we believe it was just a tenant of my faith in this country. the arc of civilization always does bend towards justice and we can draw the line from the '50s and '60s and 2008 and beyond thinking it was just inevitable. what we have learned over the past five years, there is nothing inevitable about which direction the arc of civilization goes. >> january 6th, the house select committee investigating the
january 6th attack is ramping up efforts to force former trump to cooperate with its probe. a new subpoena has been issued for jeffery clark, a former official supported the former president's push to overturn the 2020 election results. the committee is seeking records and sworn testimonies from clark by october 29th. efforts inside the previous administration to delay the certification of the 2020 election and the ampliied misinformation. jeffery rossen was interviewed in person by the committee yesterday. that news was first reported by politico. willie. >> a letter from his attorney, steve bannon announced his intention not to appear today,
citing former president trump's claim of executive privilege. former chief meadows and kash patel is also scheduleed for today and tomorrow. and we learned yesterday the biden white house formally rejected former president trump assertion of -- okay, if you don't show up, these are subpoenas, that means you go to jail. >> it's going to take a long time. they can't boom, boom, book make
it happen so they'll go to jail. just to get it out there. but going forward, i really wonder what they can do to toughen this up. i believe the sergeant at arms if ordered could call these people into contempt and order them to come to the capitol. i am not sure how it would work. that's something for legal scholars who are way above me. they should use every tool in my arsenal and attack this as harshly as republicans would do. >> you are absolutely correct. they have the power and i am tired of the select members of the committee come on here, they mean well and i know that, they talk and talk and there is no action. there will be actions until we
see steve bannon is brought in handcuffs and forced to testify under oath. >> it's not the time to be weak. it's not. at some point the line has to be drawn as to what is right or wrong in this country. it would not be weak about it. let it happen. don't be weak. >> either the subpoenas are enforceable or not. if they are enforceable, enforce your damn subpoenas. >> it's about our country at this point. >> by the way, the biden administration requirements that companies and workers are vaccinated or tested regularly for covid could be finalized as early as next week. according to a person familiar with the process is pending a final white house's review that the proposed rules would apply to businesses with 100 or more employees and up to 80 million
americans all together. let's bring in heidi with more on this and the backlash that's expected that's going to play out, heidi. >> mika, we are expecting this certainly within a week or days. what is it going to look like? it's not going to be a vaccine mandate? it's going to be a mandate that says employers, you need to make your workplace safe. still a lot of questions mika, including how specifically are they going to enforce this. how do they comply and who's going to pay for the test? i am told the government will not be paying for the testament a lot of companies says they can't do a vaccine mandate because the backlash is too strong. we already have 3500 organizations do a vaccine mandate, it's a huge success.
the problem it's going to be in places like the deep south where you see governors trying to overrule the mandate. attorney generals saying they're going to sue. this also comes as osha, the organization that's going to be tasked with enforcing this is down by about one-third of inspectors according to internal documents that we obtain. the bottom line is going to be osha will have to prioritize both based on industries that they know have low vax rates as well as regions have low vax rates, they're going to realize on whistle blowers within comments that can file complaints with osha. all of this is still very much tbd how it's going to play out in parts of the country where vaccine hesitancy is still a major problem. >> heidi, let me ask, why are there not vaccine mandates looking at what happened united? it's extraordinary successful.
why not require vaccine mandate? if you want to get rid of covid? >> it's a great question. it appears that most companies are moving in that direction. certainly large companies that don't want to take the financial hit from having people get it essentially a potential disability from long covid or short briefcases of covid. it does feel like it's a political issue. joe, i talked with the ceo of columbia sportswear, they have branches in 97 countries. it's quite amazing that this is the only country that has this problem. where does it lead us? it brings us back to the politics of it. i spoke with the ceo and mississippi, he says it's not like i have not tried, guys. i have given them incentive and a day off to get vaccinated. i am about 30%, help me out here, i don't know what i am going to do about this testing regiment now because i am afraid
with the labor shortages, the way they are right now i will lose employees. the question is are there going to be enough companies with less than 100 employees for these people to pull up stakes and look for new jobs. what we are finding that the people who are threatening to quit are not following through on it. >> right. >> that's what they don't understand. heidi, thank you so much, we greatly appreciate it. >> david, i wonder if the biden administration at times have not been aggressive enough because they are afraid of the conspiracy theorists and people are going to be screaming the loudest and the irresponsible governors and the talk radio hosts, you have united who's done a vaccine mandate and it's been a great success. the studies have been out have
shown, people threaten to quit and almost none of them quit in the end. could perhaps joe biden with covid especially the poll is not being that he's pushing it too hard or that he's not pushing hard enough. >> it's hard to calibrate, joe. take your point. his predecessor. the president of the united states has the biggest platform than anybody in globe poisoned the well about this and left behind millions of people who became suspicious of science and vaccines and that was indulged. i found it interesting of the nba, kyrie irving, he's the most unpredictable player to watch and incredibly entertaining. he's not going to be allowed to practice or play until he comes on, which is a big blow to that
team. i think the team and the league acted in exemplanary way. this is something where you are putting other people in harm's way. you are putting other people in harm's way, we all know people who have gotten break through cases. the vast majority of the time when these people are vaccinated and get covid which happens once in a while. they're okay. they have the flu for a couple of days and they're okay. there are exceptions and vaccines work. that message is distorted and poisoned by not joe biden but by trump and his followers on the media and facebook. facebook has done so little to eradicate it.
they make twice as many speeches. i don't think it's here. i just think he may not be the right mouthpiece to get through to the people you are talking about. >> we'll talk more about that. still ahead, what star trek actor william shatner is saying about his historic trip to space. vladimir putin says he sees potential working with united states on a host of issues. is it a sign that relations between the u.s. and russia are fine? we'll go live to moscow. also, ahead, nbc's andrea mitchell speaks with three americans who have suffered from havana syndrome. she joins us for the exclusive reporting. yesterday was aspirin. today there is new guidance of how much salts should be in your food. plus, we are talking
beatles, some never before seen restored footage of the legendary group from an incredible documentary that's coming out this month. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. "morning j we'll be right back. vo: the damage it's causing is undeniable... climate change. and with the build back better act, congress can tackle it head on. with tax credits for clean energy companies that create millions of new jobs... ...and ramp up new technology and clean energy manufacturing. it means families pay less for utilities... ...and america becomes the global leader in clean energy it's time to build back better. and that means taking on climate change. with clean energy jobs congress: let's get this done
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keir simmons who's live in moscow for us. good morning, what is progress looked like between the two sides? >> reporter: very slow and only in small areas. back in june when i introduced president putin and he would sat down with president biden. it would take time. sitting down with the deputy foreign minister, those meetings are focused on cyber and arms control. it's interesting the know that we have not seen reports of russia hacking since that summit with president biden in the way we did before that summit. so both sides are suggesting that there is a sign of thoring
in a deep freeze. . staffing of embassies and at the same time this week there is also this standoff between russia and europe over energy with europe facing an energy crisis and russia leveraging that opportunity to demonstrate they are an energy super power president putin in a panel today with my colleague from cnbc moderating and describing utter nonsense allegation that russia is trying to use their energy as a geopolitical weapon. you have that picture of russia
flexing its muscles and at the same time russian/moscow and washington is kind of coming to an agreement. >> david has got a question for you. >> sure, i would love to know how the united states is portrayed in the biden administration being portrayed in the press. that's a tiny paper reaches a small audience as you know more better than anyone. what reaches people is television, uniformly state run and control. how is this relationship being post trump, during the biden year? >> here this week during her visit, there is history between
her and russia to say the least. the state media here is kind of cheerleaders for the nationalistic putin kind of way of running russia. i think another point to make which i think is important that i think washington is perhaps seeing that russia is viewing the world in a very kind of piece by piece terms. frankly i think for washington, one of the questions right now is whether they can box in the russia issue. there is no movement on ukraine, for example, while they focus on china for the russians. what they always want is to be seen as a world of players. they don't want to be sidelines. that's the kind of ggeopolitics
of it. >> yesterday i saw a new teaser on disney plus. it's titled "the beatles' get back." i must say after watching it, it was sublime. it was one of the most exciting things i have seen as a beatles fan. i spent tens of thousands of hours i spent listening to the beatles and digging into the history of everything and looking into the nuances of their lyrics. it was all time well spent.
i have got a feeling. >> how many have we recorded good enough? >> none. >> noah has an idea of what the show is going to be. >> i want to play on stage tonight. nobody wants to do a show. what could it be? >> just say whatever comes and attracts me like a cauliflower until you get the work. >> there is a show to be had and once we get over our nervousness. >> i think we forget the whole idea of the show.
>> wow. >> so cool. >> all i can say is wow. you saw the beginning of the day and the explosion of the beginning of beatles mania. now we have the appropriate cinematic ending of it. extraordinary piece. i thought i read everything about paul mccartney, the beatles, but you covered some great new ground. you were at the screening watching this with paul mccartney and his family in his home. it seems to me just looking at my ipad here. it was such a joyous occasion. i am just wondering for the
family and for paul who had to sit through the very grim, grim version of this 50 years ago , what was the reaction in the room? >> emotional. imagine this. he's sitting there and watching this thing that he loves so dearly that he lost the group prematurely, he didn't want them to break up. we can talk about that. he's watching the creative process of the height of his life 50 years ago. at the same time seeing his wife as a young woman who is gone and died. his best friend in collaborator who was murdered. he's looking at his wife is pregnant with their daughter and now he's sitting next to that daughter who's 15-year-old, it was incredible moving. it was an outdoor screening with his house on the beach and a lot
of the good and the great. and what the film reveals, yes, we have seen the fisher and george harrison walks out for a few days. they start talking openly about breaking up. at the same time you are inside the creative process of the beatles. usually they come into a recording session in a disappointing way. they have 14 or 16 songs they would record and choose the 14 they needed. this one they didn't have commitments. >> there are moments in your piece where you talked to other rock superstars like billy joel at phil's madison square garden, they'll be the first to tell you, they're not paul mccartney's peers. he has no peers.
the only people that can ever understand what it was like to be paul mccartney especially with john and in "let it be" in the first take of this, everything was so grim. the thing that was missing was, through good times or bad. these guys were brothers. they were soul mates and they were the only two people in the world who knew what others were going through. that comes out in this film. >> i think that's exactly right. >> i think it's quite beautiful. what do brothers do? they love each other and they also fight. they have ups and downs. after the beatles broke up. john gave an extended interview to "the rolling stone." paul answered back too in his own way, in his different kind
of voice. i think this film, a new collection of the 1956, and is paul's effort to shape history a little bit. it's interesting to see a 79-year-old man still vital but who knows his greatest contribution will be in the beatles' era. trying to shape that history so it does not look like, first of all, it's his fault which he resented enormously. even in their worst time, they were immensely creative. when they broke up, they decented to be young. they ended with two astonishing albums, "let it be" album.
there was no mediocre. >> each of them produced some remarkable works on their own as well. it's interesting and somebody may be sitting back thinking wait a second, paul mccartney, the greatest superstars of the world, why would he still be trying to shape his legacy at 79, people don't realize when the beatles broke up, everybody piled on paul. everybody blamed paul. paul was the guy who would write live and let die film. it's an extraordinary film he did with martin. what is he going to do next? play golf with the president of the united states. even rock and roll hall of famer took forever to let the guy
should have been the second person in the rock 'n' roll hall of fame. mccartney never got the outside respect from the critics. he's deeming the rolling stone here, the beatles always resented the fact that everything they did "the rolling stone" did six months later. it was the same way inside the band. john was the cool one. he was the artsy one. it was often paul and george martin that went off in the corners, hey, what do you want to do? he was the creative genius and the revolutionary. it's still a legacy that some
people don't quite grasp. >> i don't want to under estimate john lennon, he's an extraordinary writer. they start to write separately as they live separately. like we would argue too and not to be critical of paul. there are songs that i like but i don't think you can pair through the list of 40 years of somebody like dylan. so what. the contribution of the beatles is unimaginable today. it was much more of a mono-culture in the united states and in the world in term of pop music.
now, people listen to their own thing. everybody just about listening to more or less for a brief period of time particularly the beatles. i am not saying that's but that's what it was. but, this was a music and it was just emerging. black r&b and all the rest. the reason paul is a little insulting i guess about the stones, they were a blues band. they came out of the water and muddle the rest. the beatles were influenced by
that. very sophisticated predecessors that melted into what became their signature sound and development. >> you know, willie, i love the red sox, you love the yankees, i love the beatles, you love the stones. some fighting words in this mccartney piece. >> you are by definition a blues cover band. that's what rock 'n' roll is. in your conversation is so fascinating and i love your role interviewing music icons and getting to the bottom of their stories. you look back at given their legacy, the beatles are well-earned, how short their run together actually was. they exploded, they landed at the ed sullivan theater and
exploded like a bomb in american culture and around the world. and as you point out they fought and fought and they came back together and went their separate ways. their run together was not that long. >> yeah, half of their run together, we were not exposed to them unless if you are in hamburger or liverpool at a club. >> that's what bands do. the notion of a band of the rolling stone being together for decades and decades and even though there is deaths in the family and changes -- i think we can safely say their fertile song writing periods is many years in the past. their fun of seeing consorts and their big business, the beatles
would never afforded the future for all the reasons we know. it was a different course they took because of so many factors. what's interesting about this film is the combination of the creativity on the one hand and they're starting to fall apart. brian epstein had died and george wants to record more. rico wants to do a movie. i think of all of them, the one that wanted to break up the least was paul mccartney because he was the one holding it together. as rico told me, he was the one that used to call them up to get them back in the studio. had it not been for him, they would have only made three records. >> it was mccartney really
keeping the band together. david, thank you so much for being with us. >> it's literally joe's favorite topic. we'll come back to it. yesterday we played for you the emotional recount from one member of the florida county school board, detailing the threats and intimidation her family and neighbors received such issues of wearing masks and schools. that school board member, jennifer jenkins is joining us live this morning with more on her story, "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe" is back in a moment. helen knew exercise could help her diabetes... but she didn't know what was right for her. no. nope.
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a new study by the national institute of health finds the approach of mixing and matching covid-19 vaccines to be safe and effective. the study is yet to be peer reviewed found that moderna and pfizer vaccines spark stronger immune system responses than johnson & johnson. people receiving johnson & johnson vaccines produced stronger antibody levels. we'll have more on that just ahead with dr. badelia. the fda has asked food manufactures and restaurants to drastically reduce the salts in their products. the sweeping recommendation aims to reduce americans sodium in
take by 12%. the guidance will apply to more than 160 categories of processed. reducing the sodium in the diet will decrease rates of heart disease and hyper tension in this country. companies are not required to make such reductions. and, more than half a century after appearing in the role that made him famous. william shatner climbs to a different star ship and blasted into space and into history. tom costello was in texas for the historic voyage. >> reporter: two, one. against a cloudless sky, swagger and confidence on full display here. >> as jeff bezos' blue origin carried a beloved icon.
within minutes, 90-year-old william shatner became the oldest person going to space. audrey powers and glen bosthuisen. it was a quick trip. >> the capsule touched down. >> one of the world's richest man opening the hatch. >> hello astronauts. >> jeff bezos grew up a star trek and captain kirk fan. for shatner, there was far more
than a joyride. >> what you have given me was the most profound. i am filled with emotions of what just happened. i hope i can maintain what i feel now. i don't want to lose it. >> reporter: soon after we caught up with him on the landing pad. >> bill, you seemed emotional when you came down. >> i still am, i am overwhelmed by what i saw. i saw death in the blackness of space and white in the beauty of the earth. i am 90 and close to death, did i see death? i don't know. i move by the enormous experience i just had. >> reporter: a deep appreciation for how fragile the earth is truly is. for blue origin, mission
accomplished. john lemire joins us at the table. as you went through the day and you listen to william shatner, he was so deep and profound. he talked about a nine-year-old man, did i touch death only to return to earth and have more life. he was so emotional. it was hard not to be a little bit with him. >> it was striking to hear what he said of what tom costello just gave us in his reporting. it was striking because you don't think of william shatner or any of these celebrities as religious people and people of faith. his comment was rooted in the faith. it was about life and death and it was striking. >> so few people in their life have that experience. to get an account by this was cool. >> he was emotional.
he thanked jeff bezos. it was unexpected sort of death from, someone who obviously have been thinking a lot about the end of his own life rapidly is approaching. >> most of the "star trek" casts passed away and he's one of the few left. let's turn to the economy now. i want to bring in our "morning joe" steve ratner and dorothy brown. her latest book is titled "the whiteness of wealth." steve, let's begin with your chart. what's going on right now? >> a lot going on. it may not be quite interesting to your viewers of the beatles
and william shatner but we'll do our best to tell you. particularly the shortage. let's take a look at the labor market in terms of jobs available or verses people quitting. what we have had for the first time in our history, except for one recent period right before the pandemic is more jobs available per worker and so you see there are 1.4 jobs available in this country for every unemployed workers who wants a job. that's a record we have not seen before. if you look to the left, we have seen, the unemployment rate was 3.5%. today the unemployment rate is 4.8% which means a lot of
americans are choosing not to take jobs. that's particularly true in lower wage industry with the ratio is as high as 10%. the quit rating has been the highest in many, many years. let's turn to the number of jobs that were added last month on the next slide. the labor force participation rate actually dropped last month. you had people leaving the labor force. what was striking was the people who were leaving were women. you can see the line that turns down are women leaving the labor force where men arebelieving the labor force. schools reopen. women would be able to go back to work. but, in fact they are still dropping out.
if you look to the left, we see the other oval circle, you will see that, the same thing happens about a year ago. both men and women dropped out of the labor force. we have a problem with people not wanting to take these jobs that are available for any number of reasons if we can discuss ranging from child care to enough feeling that they need to take medium jobs. the third chart, what you can see there is on the wages side. on the left side, you can see wages have picked up. they picked up particularly for people towards the bottom and the lowest 25%. that's the turquoise line that you see jumping up there. the economy as a whole, wage growth have remained stable. if you look at the chart on the right which is adjusted for
inflation, you can see that real wage. while wages go up, inflation goes faster. not as bad for the people at the bottom so it's the good news here. it's still dropping for america. if you start to think about biden's political situation. supply shortages that we talked about and the problems of the labor market because there are not enough workers to deliver this stuff and can fix people's houses and do all things people want. you talk about inflation and what it does about real wages. you talk about the fact that americans are not going back to work. all of that can be wrapped up into one piece of some of the political issues that the president is having to deal with at this point in term. >> steve, help us out here. wages are up, wage growth are up. we have more jobs openings than
ever before, people are quitting and getting out of the work force, leaving their jobs. what are some of the operating theories on why this is happening among econoeconomists? >> it's a great question, joe. in no particular order, some people think it's healthcare concern so they don't want to go back, they're worried about their health. some people think it's child care, they have no one to take care of their children other than by staying home. some people feel house balance sheet is pretty safe. so people have some money to spend and to live on without having to go back and take those
jobs that they don't want to take. that's a lot of what's going on here. the last piece is a little historical is we did pay generous on employment benefits until early september. and so when you combine the fact that people had money and the jobs they were looking at, they did not want to go back to mcdonald's. i think it kept people out of the labor force. >> yeah. it was unemployment benefits that kept people from working this summer. they decided they can make more money not working than working. a lot of people get really angry. you talk to small business owners whether in new england or deep south or out west, they'll tell you that's the problem they have been facing. >> maybe the minimum wage is too low. you can talk about the minimum wage being too low. you and i went past signs where
gas stations were paying $20 an hour trying to get workers insight. burger king were paying a thousand dollars signed bonus to get people working. there are reasons. it's a real challenge for small business owners and family restaurants as wages continue to go up. we have a supply chain rise. you talk about inflation, we saw in a real way, something i have been warning about 25 years and something you have also been warning about. you can only spend so much before inflation starts to go up. we look at these numbers and the numbers that came out yesterday. we look at the warnings that's going to be with us for another year or so. as an economist, what do economist think of the $3.5 trillion plan that progressives are pushing the $1.5 trillion plan that manchin
is pushing. manchin's warning of inflationary pressure does a bigger build on top of the $5 trillion spent last year. >> that's certainly one of the reasons why people are unhappy about the $3.5 trillion or $1.5 trillion bill which is the question of having pumped trillions of dollars into the system, liquidity and a wash and america. you need another $3.5 trillion. >> the biden administration is watching that money. it does add by -- >> if you go back and look at what's being debated, none of
the stuff we have done recently has really paid for, even the infrastructure bill. only a quarter of it is paid for. the part that we did not pay for does add to inflation. inflation numbers are not good. they are worse what we thought they would be. it does not appear to be completely transit or very broad base, it's something really we need to worry about. >> steve ratner. thank you so much. >> mike? >> one of the things that stroke me and a lot of people is the shattering number on women levering the job markets. when you hear that and see the numbers and you look at that chart, it's a real -- for universal pre-k and more child care and federal child care. a lot of women have to work, what was your take when you
looked at that chart and heard steve talk about it. >> i listened to steve and i thought there was a complete disconnect. the notion of 3.5 pregnancy is too much. what we need is federal dollars that'll help with child care and help women getting back to the labor market. are we more concerned about a whole group of people who are left behind from the labor markets? >> yes, you are right. when i saw that, i thought that was the argument for $3.5 trillion and universal pre-k and child care. just because schools started, there are children too young to go to school. that's a problem. i completely agree with you. professor brown, your work has focused on systematic racism in the economy, how do you see this is playing out in the response of covid-19 as to how the government programs --
>> overtime they gotten better. we saw with the initial ppe loans that black americans were left out and the banks went to their biggest and best customers which tended to be disproportionately white. we have seen access to a covid-19 vaccine not available in a lot of black neighborhoods. we saw the biden administration taken that into account and doing ahmad course vaccination so we are seeing more african-americans vaccinated. i am not seeing it in the economic discussions or the economic data or the economic program. i am not hearing a lot of racial equity. there is a lot more work to be done. >> professor, brown, you mentioned the $3.5 trillion, the number that's banning in
washington. there is a lot of work to do to get that legislation through. nancy pelosi says guys, we'll have to concede, it's not going to be $3.5 billion. >> when you look at that package, what do you view as essential to staying in. whatever the final legislation looks like. you have to expand the child tax credit to the lowest income americans because it's differented millions of children out of poverty. we should love all about children even children born in poor houseuseholds. we have to expand it and make it permanent and getting back to mike's point, we have to have universal pre-k and child care subsidies. we have to focus on the children. that has to stay in. that's my bottom line. >> all right, professor dorothy brown, great to have you on this morning.
thank you so much professor. >> mika? >> five years after u.s. diplomats and spies began suffering from a phenomenon known as havana syndrome. the cause and the culprit behind the illness remains unknown. three of the original diplomats affected are breaking their silence of what happened and what they experienced with permission from the state department. let's bring in our andrea mitchell. >> good morning, diplomats are speaking out now. doctors are treating soldiers. they are seeing the same injuries for people who have experiencing these episodes.
>> reporter: the winter of 2016, the fergusons were working at the u.s. embassy in havana cuba. their nights at home interrupted by a voice. >>. >> it's a lot worse earlier. >> reporter: it was persistent. and in the end, all four households were diagnosed. >> reporter: in a near by neighborhood, tina who works at the embassy was washing dishes one night in march of 2017. >> the kids were upstairs playing. i was standing at the kitchen window and i felt i was being
struck with something. . >> reporter: what was it like? >> it was like i was seized and i could not move. they are one of the victims of havana syndrome. the primary injuries i have what they're calling acquired brain injury. >> related to a direction of phenomenon exposure. what did the neurologist tells you about the changes in your life? >> he says wow, it's like you age 20 or 25 years all at once. >> how is your health today? >> it's four and a half years of excruciating headache
and -- people don't understand what this kind of brain damage can do to you. >> reporter: reported cases, there are still skepticism. some suggested its massive areas. doctors examined the diplomats at the state department. >> i don't know why this happens to these individuals but i do think it's deliberate. >> reporter: david roman, there are many international actors who would have the means of deploying a technology like this. >> reporter: when you hear all the doubts, i would say. >> i am verified physical injuries. >> it's been about nine months trying to do my old job.
little pieces of it. a few hours a day, they called it work hard. >> and i felt sick all the time. >>. >> reporter: while doug has recovered and is at the u.s. embassy in paris, tina's rising career is cut short. >> i work two hours a day, remotely here in our house. as much skepticism still seemed around this is very real. the diplomats are speaking out now. >> these are normal folks from michigan who are out there serving our country and this thing happened. i want the viewers to understand that this is real and happening. >> the reality is i am not -- i don't think have many of us are. we just want to have our lives
back. >> they're suffering continued symptoms. it could be a technology that russia has worked on. later news to collect data from computers and cell phones. a country that may have turned it into a weapon. russia and cuba denies any involvement and the mystery continues. >> great reporting andrea. we know there is a meeting at the state department, there were some frustrating voice for the president not doing enough. the people you talked to on these three individuals, do they feel they're getting enough support within the government of what happened to them? >> they have been frustratefrus. these are some of the original victims. william burns when he came in as cia director took chart within a week. he realized how important it was
he had been stationed all over the world and had been in moscow back then when similar surveillance was being used. he put the cia officers who was in charge of the osama bin laden, hint. they are closing down and they still don't have answers. >> is it some other forms of technology. they don't think it's psychogenis. there is a bad meeting yet. she seems to be suggesting that the fbi investigated this.
>> that created a lot of anger. she's since left and nearly forced out. i was told it has not happened yet. someone maybe appointed ambassador a level. this huge pressure from senator rubio warning us at the intelligence committee. we'll have senaor collins together by partisan moment talking about this. because they want the state department to do more. >> absolutely. you can see more of andrea's reporting on her show at noon eastern right here on msnbc. the havana syndrome investigation. andrea, thank you very much. i hope somebody can get to the bottom of this. and still ahead on "morning joe," new calling shows how much
of an impact of the antivaccine mandates have on voters. plus, what more is experts saying you are mixing and matching. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. "morning j we'll be right back. at i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs.
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the 30 largest in the country serving up about 160,000 students. new polling of the vaccine mandates. 46% say they support mandating childhood vaccinations, not just covid-19 vaccinations but vaccines for all infectious diseases. that number was higher in august last year when 58% of republicans supported mandates for childhood vaccinations. joining us now, dr. nahed, she's an msnbc's medical contributor. i would like to start with vaccines for children which is weeks away.
how confident are you that children across the country will get vaccinated and are these doses smaller? will they feel the same effects as adults feel? >> the data submitted from pfizer showing someone third adults, the side effect are similar to adults. the efficacy is based on the immune response. we have talked about this before. children are the heart of the population, the reason is not just for their own protection because we have seen hospitalizations of illness and children growing up in the settles of delta. they are part of the community and part of multi generational families and school systems where we are bringing people together one place that's indoors. i do think that you may seen authorization now of distribution of uptick of the
vaccines and particularly how politicalized this has been. you may see lower updates which would be damaging while we are looking at winter months ahead and colder weather and respiratory illnesses and influenza. >> so going from young and a little older, i have got a broad question for you about the booster, mixing and matching is okay? what's best do we know and at this point, who should get the booster? ? >> today and tomorrow, the fda is looking at this. tomorrow johnson & johnson is asked for a second dose for high risk and as well as the general population about six months out.
what you are seeing is a couple of different things. for moderna, the efficacy is held out. there is a little less evidence for moderna. a lot of our data came from israel. almost all israelis have been vaccinated. my senses if i was a betting person, there is been a lot of advocacy trying to reduce confusions around boosters and they may recommend something for pfizer and moderna vaccine. johnson & johnson, i think there is clear evidence. hospitalizations have gone down. you may see that authorization comes through. the other part is booster. that's the mix and match, right? new study that actually if you mix the vaccines.
if you get moderna or pfizer, you will get a stronger response. i am actually hoping that the fda committee will take a look at that and they'll discuss it. they do think there is evidence in this study as well as experiencing countries and plants allowing this kind of mixing and matching have been stronger protection. we'll have to wait to see what's coming out of this. >> doctor, let's pull back a little bit for people can't follow every time and the twists and turns. give us a good picture of what's going on in the country right now? >> i am not going to use the phrase "turn the corner" because we have been there before. hospitalizations being done and cases going down, hopefully deaths following from that going down. where are we as a country? even in places of vaccination rates are low, things are getting better. where are we as a critical right
now in this pandemic? >> well, i think we are much better than we were going into last winter for two reasons. we have achieving some level of immunity through vaccines and for many of us through the national infection. that's why you are seeing a bare picture across the country. and also what prior infections may look like and providing some evolve of immunity. we know it's not as strong as vaccines. the other thing that we had going for us is we have a lot more tools. we have antiviral medications that will be looking at. i think that's going to be a powerful tool. i think the reality is that if you go into winter it's going to be different depending where you
live. >> the infection rates may decide, whether it may increase the cases locally. globally, as you know most of the world still needs to be vaccinated. the other unknown is whether we may see a new variant that the efficacy of the vaccine and of course at that point we'll have to consider down the road you will need updating the vaccines or whether those antiviral may help keeping the hospital hospitalizations down. >> doctor, you just used the phrase kicking and screaming when it comes to some people getting the vaccine. we had a story from florida about optional masking for children, politicians suggesting that banning all vaccines, not just for covid but measles and serious things like that. how frustrated for you and others in fighting this disease and educating the public about
this disease to know that we live in a country where as much damage had been done by politicians? >> it feels like we are at something that's going to be worse down the road. this is my fear, when we are talking about how vaccines are being politicized and bans against vaccine mandates. there are study, for example, it shows texas has just improved its vaccine uptick. it could obvert. vaccines are safe and mandate seems to be working. you see the impact and what you are seeing is this kind of politicalization, people are asking the question of why
covid-19 vaccine deemed. it's how you achieve immunization population level immunity for all diseases. instead of saying you are right. >> my concern is that even this covid panpandemic, you were see clusters of measles diseases. because of vaccination rates going down, the u.s. is starting to see those clust erps and my concern is coming out of these were a lot of diseases that we were over with and we'll start to see this disease cluster for. it's heartbreaking in terms of the impact in our population. >> all right, doctor, as always, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning and help us understanding this all. coming up, we'll be joined
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i would be a fool if i did not stand next to donald trump. as he slams mitch mcconnell and says election integrity is the issue of our time, aka, i was robbed of my reelection. that says pretty much everything about where the republican party is at right now. they are cozying up to donald trump. >> white house senator sam stein on the show yesterday morning on
how new poll numbers show former president trump's hold on the gop is not going to break any time soon. more and more so-called never trumpers are considering either endorsing some democrats or forming a new party. the renewed america movement is a group of high profile lawmakers working to elect candidates who denounced political extreme. joining us now is two members, former republican of new jersey, kristine todd wittman and miles taylor, at homeland security from 2017 to 2019 and including chief of staff. was the anonymous author of a 2018 quest essay from "the new york times". >> so you both coauthored a new piece for the times.
there is only one way to save our party from protrump extremistst. governor whit man, what is that wave forward? >> support those candidates who stand up to the big lie and which every side of the isle they appear on. getting republicans to understand if their choice is a extreme candidate, and vice versa. the industry is vaccinating. since we put out the op-ed, we hear you and we are worried to cross the isle. there is a real anger out there for senators to find some place to go and that's what we are trying to create. trying to get the republican party back to the center. >> so, before i get to miles,
christine, i wonder what these historic times are really ready for? forming a new party that includes democrats and republicans? or republicans taking their party back? i feel like the republican party has been stolen. am i wrong? >> no. you are right. >> we are going to try to get the republican party back. but, with ere going to watch this, 2022 elections very closely. i believe that we are in appoint where this time, a third party could work. the problem is you have so many barriers in states and at the federal level. it gives you the earned media that you need to be a credible candidate. those bay areas are biassed. they make it impossible for anyone outside of the two major
parties to stand on those platforms. we can do it. it's going to take an awful a lot of work. we are ready to do that. i will let miles speak for himself. for many of us, we are really concerned about or democracy. >> so miles, who are the renewers and how are you getting them on board? what makes this different? i know there are a lot of subset of groups that are -- who are you getting on board and how are you galvaniing this movement? >> galvanizing is the easy part. a lot of people are viewing us
as the muppets. what we are doing is we are polling together a coalition and what we call coalition campaign, we are having republicans reach across the isle, of democrats and vice versa to support this. we identified a group of republicans and dependants. by we, i mean the 150. senators congressman, cabinet secretary that are behind the new american movement are calling on republicans around the country to go support these moderates that we are releasing today and put country over party. that's the only way not just to save the gop but give it an opportunity to reform but protecting some of the good republicans and protecting our democracy of gop control. and so the last thing i would add is this has worked before. the governor and i and many
others tried to mobilize and flip joe biden. key battleground state, president biden were largely to win because of republicans flipping side. >> we are urging voters to do this at the local level. >> governor whittman. the incentive is standing with donald trump. if you are vice president pence to begin out of the smiths of what happened on january 6th. it's just another day despite the fact he was being pursued by those mobs whether it's steve scalise going on television and not willing to say that joe biden won the election. it appears the republican party by and large cast its lots and they are siding with donald trump. people like anthony gonzalez in
the state of ohio, a star, a flip all-star, retiring because he does not think, he does not believe he can win as a republican who has crossed donald trump and voted to impeach him. >> how did you break that fever? >> a lot of those people who are not speaking up are not happy of where they are. they don't feel anyone have their back. >> they really want to put an end to this, undermiing of our system. >> that's why we are reaching out to democrats saying vote for the centrist democrats. we feel strongly that we can't. if you have both houses, if they flip. that's going to be dangerous for us. you are right, those who continue to self-identify as republicans for the part.
they are trumpers. if you look at the overall registration numbers, republicans numbers are going down. it's the affiliated and in innocence that are going to a large part dissident republicans and democrats. they understand our country is much better served by senator wright and left party where people can come together on the right-hand turn -- issues. our democracy is fragile and we are the longest lives of these experiments. we have seen government like hours fall in the past going back to greece. we need to protect our democracy. it's worth the fight and that's what we are in for. the battle. >> miles at least shorten here.
just to play devil's advocate. not because i am sympathetic at all but i have four more republicans myself. this is the era of polarization and people are drawn to their extremes and it's whatoverall. you hear from so many voters they might not care about policy issues but they want to be against them. republican voters are so stuck in their party identity and won't cross lines even if a candidate is very questionable and abhorrent on certain issues. how does a group make moderation have any appeal in this day and age when we've seen so many other efforts to bring politics back to the center and they haven't been successful? >> yeah, well, look, first i would say this. i'm in your camp. i've been cynical about this for years. the discord and discourse has
gotten worse and worse. my friends call me mr. bright side for a reason. i see some cause for hope and the governor just alluded to it. we're actually seeing a surge in the number of americans who say they're no longer part of either political party because they're sick of it. they're sick of the rhetoric and they self-identify as independents. now 50% of americans identify as political independents. so the way i read that is there is consumer demand at the grassroots level for something different. now it's kind of a silent majority, but these are the people you and i know that go to barbecues and hear folks spout conspiracy theories and say joe biden is a socialist reptilian humanoid and they walk away saying this is not my tribe. what they need do is create a tribe for the tribeless, these disaffected republicans and centrists, but give them candidates they can support. this could be a majority making coalition. if you look at some of the close race that is could decide the
outcome of the house and senate, we don't need to move 50 million republicans into joining us in this centrist movement. we're going to invest in these races and try to kick out the radicals and support the democrats that are running for office. >> governor whitman, it's jonathan lemire. let's talk for a minute about those who are on the extreme part of the party. we're seeing right now efforts in state legislatures who restrict access to the ballot. we are seeing efforts, trump-backed candidates become secretary of states in battlegrounds that could loom large, raising concerns about the certification of the vote and perhaps the election will be given to someone who doesn't actually win it. you've been in the party for a long time. what are you seeing out there? how concerned are you about these efforts? how much faith do you have in the 2024 election will be
conducted fairly? >> well, i'm very concerned about what i'm seeing. that's why i'm co-chairing the center and we're supporting those states that are being targeted to give them the ammunition they need to be able to push back against some of these new laws and some of the lies that are being spread. we should be proud. the 2020 election was a huge success. we had more people voting in the middle of a pandemic where the incumbent administration had been saying it's going to be stolen, there's going to be fraud. and yet people came out and they voted and they understood the importance of the election. it was free, fair and accurate as has been proven over and over again in the courts. i i am certain what we're seeing today is not just random attacks because people have nothing better to do. it is a concerted effort to undermine the public's confidence in our electoral system so it will be easier if
they lose, the extreme republicans, if they lose in 2022 or 2024, they can try to overturn those elections and what's extra scary to me is the number of 21 million americans who believe it is okay to resort to violence to overthrow an election. this is the united states of america. we're starting to act like a third-world country, and we have to be aware of that. people have to understand this is important, it's critical, it's scary, and we are the only ones who can push back and make the difference. and that's what miles and i are trying to do with renew america and at states united democracy institute. >> thank you very much, christine todd whitman and miles taylor, thank you both. we'll see how your efforts take action. we hope it can make an impact. a look at william shatner's history making flight into
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we showed you earlier yesterday's historic space flight that took william shatner to the edge of space. here is some of his emotional reaction to the experience. >> two, one. >> you're going 2,000 miles an hour. you're through 50 miles and suddenly you're through the blue. and you're into black and you're into, you know, it's galaxies and things, but what you see is black and what you see down there is light. >> welcome to space. >> so much larger than me and life. it has nothing to do with -- it
has to do with the enormity and the quickness and the suddenness of life and death. the moment you see how the vulnerability is so small this air keeping us is thinner than your skin. it's a sliver, small when you think in terms of the universe. what you have given me is the most profound experience i can imagine. i'm so filled with emotion about what just happened. it's extraordinary. >> william shatner on his voyage into space at the age of 90. still ahead, former
president trump is urging republicans to focus on the election. not the upcoming election, not the midterms, but rather the 2020 race which was decided a long time ago. how his fixation on the past is impacting the gop's future. plus, rock 'n' roll legend stevie van zandt joins the discussion. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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gave me, but i want more of it. >> sorry, no more for you, junkie. joe biden holds a pep rally in a parking lot. >> god bless you. god protect. thank you. which way am i going? >> just follow the nice lady in the nurse's hat, joe. >> can you imagine if you lose to a guy like this? >> yes, we can! >> this is not a time for rallies. some estimates suggest 400,000 deaths between now and the time of the inauguration. >> let's hope he isn't exactly right. >> don't listen to the professional pessimists. the light at the end of the tunnel is near. >> sadly the light is an on coming train. now with senior pence. >> four more years. [ speaking foreign language ]. >> and wingo was his name-o. >> i've done more for the black
community than any president since abraham lincoln. nobody can dispute it. nobody can dispute it. >> laughter is the best medicine and we're going to need it. this has been this week in covid history. >> speaking of flashbacks, remember when donald trump helped republicans lose two senate seats by drumming up so much paranoia about the vote? >> that was really hard to do. >> it was. but donald trump managed to do it. he lost two georgia republican seats and made mitch mcconnell a minority leader. >> and with the midterms around the corner he's at it again. >> what? >> quote, if we don't solve the presidential election fraud of 2020 republicans will not be voting in '22 or '24. it is the single most important thing for republicans to do. >> you know, willie, that's -- a
lot of people looking at those comments, those bizarre comments, took it as a tell that the guy wasn't going to run in 2024. you don't go around saying, hey, look back at 2020 and figure all of that out and create a conspiracy theory that helps me justify my loss there. or else republicans aren't going to win in '22 and '24. it's crazy talk. >> i think sometimes we ascribe too much strategy to donald trump's comments and he's not just blurting things out. this is a reaction we'll get into, another judge throwing out a case that requested a look at the ballots. the vote has been counted three times. three times in the state of georgia. the statement he put out was a temper tantrum in which he threatened to withhold his voters from the 2022 midterm
elections and the presidential election unless something is done, whatever that means, about the 2020 election. he did the same thing in georgia and cost republicans the united states senate by his actions down in georgia. elise jordan is with us. donald trump perhaps for a moment, some republicans drifted away from him after january 6, but about a week later they all came back and now if you watch their interviews, every one of them is bending a knee and going along for the ride on this idea that the election was somehow invalid, that it still should be overturned, that there are still questions around it. they're going along for the ride on this and they're going to go down with him. if stacy abrams becomes the next governor it will be because of donald trump. >> that's what kills me.
donald trump has no loyalty or allegiance to these republicans who want to benefit by hanging from his coattails. he is openly rallying against mitch mcconnell and his goal of getting the senate back. i don't understand why they didn't just kill it off once and for all when they had the chance. they just weren't strong enough to do it. >> the stream of rhetoric that emerges from trump's mouth and his diseased ego put in place in our political system is a success for donald trump. he has managed to get the idea out there that the election of 2020 was rigged. and now state after state led by republican governors and legislatures have now tried to
enforce going forward their own rigged election laws with regard to 2022 and 2024 specifically. that is the danger americans face right now because that infection is deep and wide and it's put there by a former president of the united states and it's the most dangerous thing occurring at a democracy. it's playing out in plain view through this sometimes -- some people think it's amusing to listen to him and see him, but it is deeply, deeply threatening and deeply, deeply dangerous. >> if you listen to the georgia secretary of state, he says in explicit terms president trump cost himself the election in the state of georgia by saying don't vote absentee, those are corrupt. he probably lost because of that given the margin. and that he cost two republican senate seats there. and yet as elise said, republicans from the top all the way down happy to hitch their wagons once again to donald trump on this ride.
>> republicans did well in the state of georgia. donald trump didn't because he cost himself during the election and then he cost ron johnson -- i can't believe i'm saying this -- had astute analysis of what happened in wisconsin when he didn't think anybody was watching him talk where he said, listen, the state legislature, statewide candidates in the republican party, you go through it. federal officials, they all get roughly the same number of votes. and 60,000 less votes because there were people he offended that would not vote for him and that made all the difference. let's bring in the editor of the new yorker. we rightly focus on all the dangers donald trump presents to madisonian democracy, what he presents to the rule of law, what he presents to the values that have made this country what
it's been when you look at the constitution and the way we've moved forward. but if you're a republican you have to be looking at this guy quietly and saying, wait a second, he's done something no other president has done since herbert hoover. he lost us the house. he lost us the senate. he lost us the off-year elections. he lost us georgia when that took a lot of doing. and now he's endorsing stacy abrams over brian kemp. it's a nightmare for all parties involved but it's not a bargain for republicans even politically. >> no, maybe not. you saw charles grassley honestly go in front of his audience and say, look, the vast majority supports donald trump and i would be a fool -- i would be a fool not to stand right
next to him. therefore saying right in front of trump and the audience that the bald truth, i would be defeated without him. donald trump has poison this had country in many ways. he's poisoned the information sphere, the court, he's done terrible damage. at the same time he's also exposed the country in so many ways and exposed aspects of our history and racism that are painful to witness and he's exposed the from silt of democracy in ways we could not imagine. you and i grew with the sense in one way or another of a kind of american exceptionalism, meaning this could never happen here. i lived in moscow for four years. as a young person i would look
around, how could they possibly have believed this? how could they have participated in the system? and now we know we are as human beings in the face of an effective tyrant -- no matter how comical, weak and exposed and unless we fight it and do our jobs whether it's journalists or citizens or voters, we are in a historical moment. the exposure to authoritarianism has gotten deeper. i'm very concerned about that. >> and that really is what's been the most shattering as far as our self-image that you're right, we all grew up -- i certainly grew up with the
belief of american exceptionalism, what happened in other countries, the tilt toward totalitarianism could never happen here. it wasn't possible and yet donald trump has shown us it is quite possible and we believed it was just a tenet of my faith in this country and millions of people's faith that the arc of civilization does bend towards justice. we could draw the line through the '50s and '60s and 2008 and beyond thinking it was just inevitable. and what we've learned over the last five years is there is noggin nothing inevitable. >> case in point, what happened to america on january 6. there are new details in the congressional investigation of the attack on the capitol, and we'll talk about that next on "morning joe.
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the house select committee investigating the january 6 attack on the capitol is ramping up efforts to force former trump administration officials to cooperate with its probe. a new subpoena has been issued to jeffrey clark, a former justice department official who supported the former president's push to overturn the 2020 election results. the committee is seeking records and sworn testimony from clark by october 29 on efforts inside
the previous administration to delay the certification of the 2020 election and amplify misinformation about the election results. we are also learning that former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen was interviewed in person by the committee yesterday. the news was first reported by politico. >> steve bannon announced his intention not to appear today citing former president trump's claim of executive privilege. three other trump administration officials, mark meadows, dan scavino and defense department official kash patel are scheduled for depositions today and tomorrow. they have not indicated if they will supply. they are prepared to seek criminal charges for those who do not appear for testimony this
week. the biden white house has formally rejected former president trump's assertion of executive privilege over documents requested by the select committee, and they will have access to them. we've had members of the select committee on this show the last two days, both of whom have said if you don't show up, these are subpoenas. we will refer you for criminal prosecution. that means you go to jail. >> it's going to take a long time, though. that's what is unfortunate. they can't boom, boom, boom, make it happen and force people into compliance so we can get to the truth, to what happened on january 6. it was a big mistake to not have that testimony right after the horror and to get it out there. but going forward i wonder what they could do to toughen this up. i believe the sergeant at arms if ordered could call these people into contempt and order
them to come to the capitol. that's for legal scholars who are way above my pay grade, but i think she should use every tool in their arsenal and attack this as harshly as republicans would do if they were in a similar position. >> you are correct. they have the power. and i'm tired of the select members coming on here. they talk and talk and there's no action. and there will be no action until we see someone like steve bannon in handcuffs brought to the capitol and forced to testify under oath, period. >> i think -- i mean, this is not the time to be weak. it's just not. at some point the line has to be drawn as to what is right and wrong in this country and i would not be weak about it if that's an option that could happen, let it be. let it happen. if they're enforceable, enforce your subpoenas. >> it's about our country at
this point. by the way, the biden administration's requirement that companies ensure workers are tested for covid could be finalized as early as next week. according to a person familiar with the process it is pending a final white house review. the rule would apply to businesses with 100 or more employees and up to 80 million americans altogether. to heidi przybilla with more on this. heidi? >> reporter: yeah, mika. we're expecting this within a week, possibly within days. what's it going to look like? employers, you need to make your work place safe from covid. a number of ways you can do that. they're assuming most of employers will choose the
vaccine mandate. how specifically are they going to enforce this? how do they comply? who is going to pay for the tests? the government will not be paying for the test. there are a lot of companies that say they can't do a vaccine mandate because the backlash will be too strong. most places this will not be a problem. it's been a huge success. rates have gone up by 20%. the problem then will be in places like the deep south trying to overrule the mandate. that they're going to sue. and this comes, mika, as osha, the organization that is going to be tasked with enforcing this is down by about a third according to internal documents.
regions that they know they have low vax rates, whistle-blowers with osha. how it's going to play out where vaccine hesitancy is still just such a major problem. >> heidi, let me ask why aren't there vaccine mandates? it's been extraordinarily successful. why not require vaccine mandates if you actually want to get rid of covid? >> it's a great question and it appears most companies are moving in that direction. large companies that don't want to take the financial hit from a potential disability or a short, briefcase of covid. it does feel like it's a political issue.
they have branches in 90 different countries and he said it's quite amazing that this is the only country where i have this problem. so where does that leave us? it brings us back to the politics. he said it's not like i haven't tried, guys. i've given them incentives, the day off to go get vaccinated but i'm only at about 30%. help me out here. i'm afraid with the labor shortages that i will lose employees. the question is are there going to be enough with less than 100 employees to pull up stakes and look for new jobs. what we're finding is the people threatening to quit are not following through on it. >> right. that's what they don't understand. heidi, thank you for your report. we greatly appreciate it.
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get started today. four months after a meeting between presidents biden and putin in geneva, the united states and russia are reporting progress from another round of meetings in moscow. senior international correspondent keir simmons is live there in moscow. keir, good morning. what does progress look like between the two sides? >> reporter: willie, very slow and only in small areas. back in june when i interviewed president putin and then president putin sat down with president biden, i said then that it would take time to assess the impact of that. i think we are beginning to see that now with the under secretary of state visiting moscow this week sitting down
with the deputy foreign minister. those meetings, i think, focus very narrowly on cyber, on arms control. i think it's interesting to know, willie, we haven't seen reports of russian hacking since the summit with president biden in the way we did before that summit. both sides are suggesting there are signs of thawing from the very deep freeze in the relationship between russia and the united states. a sign that it was a very deep freeze, victoria newman had to be removed from a list of sanctioned officials to be able to come here to russia. staffing of embasies and at the same time this week there is also this standoff over energy with europe facing an energy
crisis and russia, frankly, leveraging that opportunity to demonstrate that they are an energy superpower. president putin in a panel today with my colleague from cnbc moderating describing utter nonsense allegations russia is trying to use its energy position as a geopolitical weapon. but certainly you have that picture of russia sort of flexing its muscles at the same time as moscow and washington kind of are coming to some agreement in small areas. >> keir, we have david remnick with us from "the washington post," and he has a question for you. david? >> sure. i'd love to know something about how the united states is portrayed in the biden administration and portrayed in the press.
television is state run, state controlled. how is this relationship now being portrayed post-trump during the biden years? >> reporter: well, look, david, victoria newman was lambasted in the russian state media here this week during her visit. there is history between her and russia, to say the least. but certainly the state media here are the kind of cheerleaders for the nationalistic putin kind of way of running russia. and i think another point to make, which i think is important, is that i think washington is perhaps seeing russia is viewing the world in
very kind of piece by piece terms. frankly i think for washington one of the questions right now is whether they can rush in the issue while they focus on china. for the russians, what they want is to be seen as a world player. they won't want to be sidelined. that's the kind of geo politics of it. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you. coming up, rock 'n' roll hall of famer stevie van zandt looks back at his remarkable career from the e street band to the sopranos to so much more. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe."
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rights even when it's outside of my home on a public property. i'm not. i'm not. i think it's a silly method. i think it's ineffective. it doesn't motivate me or move me in any way. but i'm not opposed to it. what i reject is this effort to create fear and division in the community that leads to credible threats of violence against me and my family. i don't reject them standing outside my home. i reject them following me around in a car, following my car around. i reject them saying that they're coming for me, that i need to beg for mercy. i reject that when they are using their first amendment rights on public property they're also going behind my home and brandishing their weapons to my neighbors. that they're making false dcf claims about me to my daughter, that i have to take an investigator to her play date, to go underneath her clothing to check for burn marks. that's what i'm against. >> that is just some of the
account we played for you on yesterday's show. a member of florida's brevard county school board jennifer jenkins about the threats she and her family have endured with heated debates between members of the public and school board officials, mainly over the issue of masks in schools. and jennifer joins us now. jennifer, thank you so much for being on. we were all so moved by your words and we, quite frankly, felt terrible for you. tell us what is the latest, specifically in your locality, as it pertains to mask mandates, vaccine mandates and overall how people are treating each other. >> thank you so much for having me. currently we have opted as a majority of our board to have a mask mandate in place. there is no parental opt-out, only a medical opt-out option which i am assuming some of you
might be aware of. that is a controversial issue in the state of florida. currently we are making a decision about how to respond to a letter we received from the florida department of education that is telling us they're going to withhold our pay because we made that decision. we currently don't have any vaccine mandates and, to be honest, that is not a conversation we're even having even remotely at this point. >> why not? >> you know, i don't even know why. i think we have been so overwhelmed with the overwhelming amount of hate and vitriol for something as simple as a cloth mask to be put over our students' and staff faces. we haven't had time to process any other important things or business that we should be doing as a school board organization to help our students in every single area. it's really difficult to deal with, and it's really frustrating that we can't govern and do the things that we need
to do because all we have to do is focus on people who are against a mask mandate. >> how long have you been on the school board? have you ever confronted a situation like this? has the school board functioned normally in the past? >> i am coming up on almost a year of being sworn in to the school board, and unfortunately, this has been the experience since the day i was sworn in. i defeat add well-known republican incumbent who couldn't let that defeat go, created an organization that had spread information to their members that their disdain for me is their hyper focus and disdain for the things i care about and i support should be the hyper focus of their organization and from that moment on the day i was sworn in it only got worse. it jumped from topic to topic from our lgbtq guidelines and of
course the back and forth of the mask mandate. >> jennifer, good morning, and thank you for being with us to tell your story. i think the reason your remarks resonated is because so many of us with kids know who you are. we know the people who raise their hand and run to serve on school boards or serve on the pta. people want to get involved beyond the scope of their daily jobs. if you could explain why you decided to run for that school board. i know you're a speech pathologist, your husband is a teacher. you're both educators in your own right. why did you want to raise your hand and serve there? >> yeah, you said it really well. i'm professionally and personally invested in public education. i'm an educator myself. my husband is a teacher. we have a 5-year-old little girl. we are beyond invested in public education. and here in florida we are fighting for fair teacher compensation and a really strong passion of mine is equity across the district. i want to ensure all of our students have access to the same
opportunities and success. unfortunately, in my campaign i was side tracked with covid and conversations about covid, but it was important. i was proud to be there, to be a voice for our students and our staff and our community, to ensure there's somebody there who really cares about the fact we need to keep our students and staff safe. >> so where does this go, jennifer, from here? obviously you are not alone this is a scene that played out across school board meetings, parents come in angry, screaming about critical race theory, screaming about having to wear masks, about the prospect of potentially mandates for vaccines for kids when those become available and safe. how do you see this resolving itself, if you do? >> if i'm being honest, at this point i don't see a resolve. it's frustrating where our community has gone. i was elected to keep students and staff safe. because i'm doing the job i was elected to do, i have become a target for normalized
coordination of attacks and threats. and you are correct it goes from topic to topic. when there's no consequences for the actions of a minority of voices, that becomes normalized and it becomes acceptable. and that's a problem. i have said it before but, you know, this is our new pandemic not only here in the state of florida but across the nation and, unfortunately, our school board members, our local elected officials and sometimes our educators are now at the face of this. >> so, jennifer, you are a perfect living example of what it means to get actively involved in local politics. people are always urging people get involved, do your part, help the country, help your state or your community. you've done that. and the result has been what you've discussed here this morning and earlier on the clip that we played. your family has been terrorized, you've been threatened multiple
times. would you ever run again, and who do you blame for this? >> it's been difficult for me to continue to be a strong presence in the community for people who support me to know that i am there and i won't back down while managing all of the things that have been happening to my family and my family members to support us. their emotions and dealing with that. i never want the people who are doing these horrible things to me to see that it is affecting me, but i am a human being. it is affecting me. i am a mother. it is affecting my daughter. but i will never back down on my convictions. it's not who i am as a person. it's never been who i was. and all of these things they are doing to me and my family are just making me stronger and
making me just stand to my truth and my convictions. no, i'm not going to give up. whether or not i'm going to run for a school board seat again, that's three years from now. i don't know. but i'm not opposed to it. this does not deter me. >> i'd say run again or run for something else, and we'd be happy to be here for you. brevard county school board member jennifer jenkins, thank you for coming on today. and thank you for your service. >> thanks, jennifer. >> thanks, guys. up next, stevie van zandt is standing by. he joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe."
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>> best show in the history of television, stevie van zandt known for his role on "the sopranos," his legenstevie is t in a memoir. the rock and roll hall of famer joins us now. great to see you. we've been waiting for you all morning. >> i watched, that was a good segment. >> we're talking about the beatles and you talk about in your book, the memoir, about the epiphany you had when you saw the beetles, the stones and you said i want to be part of that. whatever that means. >> the whole communication from a band was something new to us. it had been individuals and singing groups. if you went to your high school dance it was an instrumental group. so we didn't see a lot of four, five piece bands singing and
playing, the new thing and it communicated something different, friendship and family and community ultimately. that's why i wanted to be part of it. >> i think it was a year or so later you meet bruce down in jersey. what was that meeting like? was there magic right away? did you know you might be onto something? >> no. it was just a -- you know, the day before the beetles played this variety show "ed sullivan" there were no bands in america, and after that, everybody had a band in the garage. mercifully most stayed there, but a few of us got out. i had a band and bruce had a band, so we just knew each other because there was not that many bands in those days. then i'd run into him, i'd go to the cafe into the village on saturday afternoons to steal what i could steal because those bands were a year ahead of us. and i ran into him.
we started coming up together. it turns out we really, really needed each other. if you're the only freak in town you think there's something wrong with you, but if there's two of you, maybe we're on to something here. so i think we really -- we were the only two guys we knew who for rock and roll was everything, not just a weekend thing. >> you know, there's a stunningly candid portions of this book that you've written. and one was when, for whatever reasons as you explain, you leave bruce, 1984. and it's like you're a dead man walking you describe it for a couple years. tell us about that. >> at that point, the first half of the book is great. feedback, are you hearing that? >> yeah, i'm getting feedback. >> pull that ear out for a second. >> how's that? better? >> yeah. >> no, it's not better. what do we do with this?
how about that. >> there you go. >> you're good. yeah, i'm not going to be able to hear joe. but that's already. >> we'll get you the questions from joe, don't worry. >>, you know, it wasn't just changing jobs, it was the end of my life at that point. 15 years of work building up to that moment. and i think the book is most -- gets interesting then. the first half is local kid from jersey makes it in rock and roll, which is a great story. but then when i leave, the bigger themes start to emerge. a search for identity, purpose in life, spiritual enlightenment and the rest. and the entire second half of the book is not planned. and i hope it ends up being inspirational to people who run into disappointment in their lives and think their life is over. when, in fact, you know, if you can hang in there and find a way to move forward, destiny has a way of, you know, surprising
you. >> how did bruce handle the rupture? >> it was rough. it was one of our three, you know, awkward moments in life that i talked about in some detail. we recovered quickly, though. reconciled quickly. it was rough. i was leaving him at a time it was just about to explode and to really get big. it was a little bit, it was tough, a tough moment. >> that had to be so hard to step away from, and then you said you felt such great disappointment. and then you showed so much resilience in figuring out your next steps and your spiritual journey. what was that spiritual journey like? >> it's just a -- you got to stay flexible and deal with it as it comes at you, you know. david chase calls out of the blue, says do you want to be an actor? i was like, okay. i got nothing better to do, you know, frankly. and, you know, then one thing led to another. and before you know it, i had
already -- i started off as an artist journalist. i didn't plan on being an artist, journalist, activist. that kind of happened, i explained it in the book and it happened by accident. most of my life happened by accident. you have to find a way to move forward and realize your potential in the world, that's all you can do. >> i was going to ask you about the phone call from david chase, out of the blue to you and most people he says i think you can be an actor. what did you make of that? what did you think? >> when he asked me to be in a show i turned him down. i said, thanks, that's a nice compliment but i'm not an actor, sorry. he said, yes, you are, you don't know it yet. he picked it up from the e street band we were never faceless sidemen, we were the rock and roll rat pack. i was in the dean martin role. so i think he picked up on that and the fact that we're from
jersey, you know, the jersey thing is a big identity for sopranos. everybody turned it down because he insisted on filming in new jersey, that's not done. we don't do that in hollywood, what are you nuts? so he insisted and that became a big part of the identity, i think that was part of why he wanted me on the show too. >> we can't imagine anyone else in the role now, who would have thought it at the time. we have the e street roadies on the top and your earpiece is fixed. joe has a question for you. >> first of all, this is really appropriate because in the 14-year history of this show, we've never had feedback before. >> zero. >> i was going to say that. that's a first. >> so we get like a great guitarist and he can pull feedback out of an earpiece. so god bless you. one of the things i thought was really inspirational about this book was the fact that you quit
the e street band right before bruce blew up with "born in the usa". you released an album that looked like his, you thought my god, it can't get any worse. and then you said i got nothing to lose. and you went to south africa. and in what was this extraordinarily low point you did something that i think a lot of people, if they look at your life, despite all the fame and everything that's followed you, would say it was the most significant thing you did in your life because of that fateful decision. you went to south africa, you figured out what was going on. you wrote that great song "sun city" not gonna play in sun city, and things blew up. you made a huge difference that you would have never made if you had stay in the u.s. and been a rock star touring around with bruce in '84. talk about that. >> yeah, joe you're so right about that.
going back and reliving it kind of helped me feel better about those decisions that seemed like really bad ones at the time. it didn't hit me. it was kind of an emotional breakup for a minute and it didn't hit me until i was on the plane to south africa that i had just blown my life. literally 15 years of work down the drain. and i was always a bad flyer, i never liked flying. i was always a little bit nervous about it and suddenly i felt the fear it completely went out of my body completely. and i became this sort of, you know, much more focused on the politics because that's all i had left. so it -- the fearlessness helped me go into some really dangerous places and do the research in a much more thorough way. and i talk about that in some detail. and so, you know, in the end, it was -- it was a -- you know, it was the destiny that you don't expect. you didn't plan on it, but you
just kind of -- you're in it and i thought, man, i got to get something out of this. something has to come of this because i have nothing left. so i was really, really focused on the whole south africa thing. we found a strategy how to bring the government down. it was a challenge. the challenge was raising the consciousness of america, it was not a big deal in america. it was big in europe. but america didn't know where south africa was. bill bradley brought me to the senate i had to explain to the senators where it was. there's two hints in the name, you ought to be able to find it on a map. but it just wasn't that big an issue so our challenge was to raise the consciousness because we knew when the sanctions bill came ronald reagan would veto it. it was the first time ronald reagan's veto was overturned and
they had to let mandel out of jail. >> it was an incredible moment. one other incredible moment when you figured out how to open and end this book. you talked about paul mccartney earlier. you got a chance to play with sir paul. you said it's worth ten albums. talk about that. >> the book begins and ends with the beetles, because that's my life. i had just had the greatest moment of my life 24 hours earlier finally being in a martin scorsese movie which i thought was going to be the high light of my life. five seconds but the most glorious five seconds "the irishman". then paul mccartney comes on stage -- he had come on stage with the e street band at hyde park, which was wonderful and invited me and bruce with him on stage at madison square