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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  October 13, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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for right now, it's "the reidout". >> i love paul krugman. let's go back to hot 97. that was my station. i lived in new york for a long time and that was my station. it was the hottest station. >> hot 97 has everything you need to know. glad you used to listen or still do, probably. >> it definitely has everything you need to know. thank you very much. my friend, have a great evening. we begin "the reidout" with a renewed effort by the american right to make sure covid is here to stay. first, they came for the schools. now it's the businesses. an astonishing 180 for the party that once claimed it stood for limited government, free enterprise and protecting corporate america from burden some regulation. these days the once grand ol' party stands for nothing but
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embracing a foaming at the mouth brand of conservatism that includes worshipping the disgraced former president and dismantling democracy and forcing businesses, forcing them to operate on their terms that happened to include opening the doors to the pandemic with the worst of them associating the killer virus with freedom itself. they've also launched a new national past time empowering anti-vaxxers and anti maskers to mop up and scream at, spit on and attack workers who have to mask up to work. they're not harassing teachers and health care professionals or moms walking their kids to school for masking up to prevent covid. a life does need variation. we now have abortion bounty hunt governor greg abbott of texas banning any entity in his state, including private businesses from mandating covid vaccinations for workers or customers. he's denouncing vaccine mandates as federal over reach while his covid loving side kick florida governor ron desantis is making
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good on his promise to punish local governments for taking steps to protect workers because covid must be let in otherwise how would one market his top donor's remedy at fancy popup clinics. leon county is facing a $3.5 million fine for requiring proof of vaccination. as baby maga is exploring options to legally block vaccine related terminations in the private sector. if leadership could kill. wait, it can. this comes as other republicans and maga minons double down. jim jordan said we should ban all vaccine mandates. charley clark get the tweeting party started saying reject tyranny, catch the freedom flu despite the flu kirk's colleague
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the co-founder at turning point died of covid last year. conservatives are also turning nba star kyrie irving into an an tie vax martyr. the brooklyn nets guard is prohibited from playing until he's vaccinated prompting donald trump to tweet about actually talented people. this time pretending he cares about black people saying kyrie just sacrificed more than kaepernick ever did. he doesn't care about black people. don calcallaway. tim, i have been searching for the rationty in embraing covid is king, let it in, let it in your business, in your schools, feed it to your kids with the breakfast cereal. this love of covid makes no sense to me except they also want to market cures for covid. they want you to buy some
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hydroxychloroquine or go bayou -- buy you ivermectin. maybe they want popup clinics with their favorite remedies. maybe that's it. this thing about bossing businesses around, that seems harder to explain with the republican brand. can you explain it? >> yeah, i'll give you a more simple answer than that, joy. i think that the explanation is this is simple contrary and elite and populism gone array. everything joy reid is for, that dr. fauci is for they have to be against and if that means letting unnecessarily their own citizens die they will. look at texas while we have a life saving vaccine, 16,000 people have died in texas of the novel coronavirus.
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greg abbott during that two months supported private businesses having the right to have a vaccine mandate. he looked at the 16,000 deaths and rather thinking the solution is what can i do as somebody that has influence with many of these people not getting vaccinated, what can i do to help encourage them to get vaccinated is doing the opposite. do not compile texas representative chip roy. do not compile. you know chip is vaccinated. i think that what these guys are doing is absolutely unconscionable. it's all about positioning. it's all about negative partisanship all the way down. it has nothing to do with leading their state obviously or caring about their citizens, all that stuff is way -- has gone by the wayside. i don't know there are words to describe how unconscionable the move that greg abbott made in texas is. >> right. these are the same people who are screaming go back to work but then also screaming catch the covid flu or the freedom flu
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and don't go to work. that means you're not going to work, which is the thing you demanded they don't do. you're saying go to work now you're saying don't go to work. it is non-cohaerent. don, the other phase is the fake ante elite. these people are vaccinated. fox news has the strictest requirements to be vaccinated and to report your vaccination status to them. it's the straightest in the media business. these are vaccinated elite people and then they are doing this thing where they're trying to like cause play as if they're the black people during the civil rights movement. right? they're like no, see, if you really look at history, like, the real victims and the people who are getting fire hose on them, that would be us elite rich white people. we're the ones in the pictures. and to do that, you need a couple black people so that you can say see? segregation. we enter kyrie irving, another person elite.
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the nba has elite opportunity to get yourself the vaccine if you want it. they get tested. they get everything. he's refusing to do it. he's now got people who are trying to say oh, no, no, no he's upholding a huge principle. he's being principled. this is a puff piece in the athletic. no, he thinks it's a principle people shouldn't lose jobs and they're claiming it's not about him being anti vax. we have an expert ben collins that does this for a living and says that is exactly what anti-vaxxers say. i'm not anti science. i'm not anti vax. i believe in a principle. your thoughts on that? >> i first, you know, the house republican party has staffers, many of whom are 25 to 35 years old. those young staffers are aware of the twitter and other forms of the social media and that's why you see people like ted cruz standing with the kyrie irvings. six months ago, there is no way in the world you're standing with kyrie irving as he rocks
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black lives matter t-shirts on the court. there is a seective aligning yourself of social media influence otherwise known as flout chasing. i'll leave you with that, joy reid. use it as your leisure. but it's so fundamental berethed. when you talk about the contrary, that leads us to one place and it's anti intellectual. one of the two major political parties in this country has so aggressively adopted anti intellectual they don't see it consistent to pass a texas abortion ban based in some theory of bodily autonomy and not have a problem with the inconsistency between that and raging against people not wanting to get vaccinated or some theory of bodily autonomy.
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that was muddled. they don't recognize this is inconsistent and that's a problem. they don't recognize it because they probably embrace the same intellectual that not only keeps them from getting vaccinated but admitting they're hurting us all by not being vaccinated. >> the people doing it, tim, they went to harvard. i'm so -- harvard shame. that's where he went to school. these people are harvard, yale, princeton -- these are ivy league rich people being like i stand with the common man. ted cruz, if ted cruz saw kyrie irving in his neighborhood, he would call the police on him. you're in the wrong neighborhood. 911. that's the truth. the other piece of this is if they claim about business to stay open, to be viable economically, these businesses have to do that. look at the businesses that are based in texas. at&t, halliburton, exxonmobil
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but i'm thinking of southwest and american airlines. to thrive they need the mandates so people feel safe getting in the plane. 7-eleven, they need it. i wonder if at some point the business commuity pushes back and say you can't do this to us. >> that woke corporation halliburton. >> so woke. >> look, i mean, look at this, i want to go a step lower than that. think if you're in a nursing home and you're in texas and you have elderly people that have co-morbidities and other reasons they could have breakthrough cases, you -- i think everyone who has their mom or aunt or uncle or grandparent in a nursing home would want that place to have a vaccine mandate. right? who wouldn't want that? in texas, greg abbott is banning nursing homes from being able to have a vaccine mandate so you
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could have an unvaccinated nurse coming in and there is nothing you can do it. it absolute madness and if you think about how ridiculous and one very small thing. if kyrie wants to be a voice, if these guys that want to be a voice for the voiceless want to quit their job, these millionaires, i hope the ted cruzs of the world stand with them. it would be great for ted cruz and tucker charleston and laura ingraham to do what kyrie is doing. they should walk away, as well. they're in vaccine mandated places. if they want to be a voice with the voices with kyrie, stand shoulder to shoulder. >> and quit they job. when he's not working anymore, you know how they'll think about kyrie about a black man that quit his job. they will stand with him. don junior will be standing
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there with fist in the air like josh hawley. no, he's not. they're going to call the police on him. the issue for the democrats, at some point do you start to gather the vaccinated, the proscience and start to try to make them into a political force? because it feels like the people who don't want their grandmothers to die in a nursing home in texas might actually be a useful voting block. >> yeah, answer luteally. we hope that is at least tactic and taken away from us as we move into the midterms next year because of democrats can't run for office being the house and senate of the vaccine and sensible. covid has gone away. i'd rather have covid go away than use it and last long enough that it could be organized into a politically organizing principle that we would see the results pay off. so we hope that covid goes away before it can get to that. so the other side is that like you said at the beginning of this, i don't think republicans would have it go away because
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they have -- they are not above the moral shitshow of them using it. i told myself i'd stop cussing this year. i'm sorry. [ laughter ] >> you know -- here is the thing. >> i'm jealous. >> all the grandmas, they're not going to yell at you. they're going to yell at me. the church ladies with the church hats, please @don -- how do we find you on twitter? we'll tweet you. don't tweet at me. don't @ me. [ laughter ] >> rick wilson thanks you for not being the guy that cursed today. thank you guys very much. tim, don, you guys are great. up next on "the reidout" the big push for accountability. members of the january 6th select committee may pursue criminal charges against anyone that ignored their subpoenas that. hopefully it's not may, but will. the increasingly political supreme court, conservative justices have the checklist in hand but want you to believe they are above politics and
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tonight's absolute worst, the three things that could bring down american democracy and it could all happen in a matter of months, not years, months. "the reidout" continues after this. reidout" continues after this (burke) i've seen this movie before. (woman) you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost. and that her home will be rebuilt, regardless of her limits or if the cost of materials has gone up. (woman) that's really something.
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the house select committee on january 6th issued a in subpoena for one of the most notorious figures for trump to steal the election. late today they subpoenaed jeffrey clark a former justice department and trump loyalest that tried to nullify the election results in georgia and other states saying his efforts threatened to subvert the rule of law. a moment of reckoning for several other targets of the subpoenas that. tomorrow is the day trump ally steve bannon and former defense department aide cash patel are scheduled to be deposed followed by mark meadows on friday. if they defy.
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it's a message members of the committee have been reiterating all week. >> the committee is completely in solidarity. every person on the committee recognizes how important it is for us to make sure we enforce subpoenas that. >> we're of one mind. anyone that does not compile, we will refer for criminal prosecution and there needs to be accountability. >> i would recommend the full extent of consequences. jail time, fines. we need to make sure that these people understand that this is not acceptable. >> and at the top of the list for a possible criminal referral is ban bannon. he rebranded trump as a faux pop list and indicated that he'll refuse to cooperate. the ariats may have to do with the relative leniency shown for the accused shock troops of the insurrection.
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today there haven't been serious consequences the people who and many of these have to be not having food or spiritual requirement causing blisters or beeping too loudly or needing time off to go to a wedding. it just shows you the privilege of the defense from mainly people of color languishing across this country. for a long time. the latest complaint comes from christopher worrell a member of the proud boys accused of injuring police and says the d.j. jail can't be trusted with his cancer treatment because they have taken months to approve surgery on a broken hand. one commented welcome to the club. in an ironic twist, given
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worrell say proud boy, it turns out his cancer treatments are being provided by the medical center at howard university. for a country in desperate need in lessons of critical race theory, his complaint was heated by a federal judge that held jail officials in contempt for violating his civil rights because of course they did. joining me is a trump impeachment manager this year and congresswoman, you've been on the show and very emotional terms talked about what you went through this day. the fear you faced and fear and staffers, when you hear these jailed defendants who were beating police officers responsible for multiple deaths that day complaining their jail conditions are too harsh or inconvenient to wear an ankle monitor, i'm interested to hear your response and the fact is judge is siding with them, basically. >> i say roll the tape, joy.
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i'm pleased to be with you tonight. we must never forget the violent insurrection that descended on our capitol incited by president and aided by other and that's why there are people in jail for their participation have these whining complaints, i have zero sympathy. i want to make sure that more people are prosecuted and held to the highest extent of the law for their criminal insurrection behavior. we must not forget what this is about. this is not a break in or some ordinary place in our country. this was an insurrection, an attack on our democracy. every single one of our lives was at risk as they came in saying we will hang mike pence and calling for nancy. we know had they gotten their hands on any one of us, flags would have been lost. roll the tape. there is no sympathy for anybody spending time in prison and i
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hope they get the fullest sentences they can get. >> they certainly didn't have empathy for you-all at all, including the young staffers. we know at least some of these people, some of the defendants on the other side, the people accused of knowing a lot at the higher levels. some of them are compicompiling. so jeffrey rosen the former acting attorney general under trump, he was scheduled to appear today before the committee. he apparently has been interviewed in person today. that sounds like progress. do you expect that short of being rounded up by the u.s. marshal s, most or all of these defendants will show up and if they don't, what do you think should happen? >> i had the chance to speak in the last couple days to jamie raskin and pete aguilar serving on the select committee. they assure me and your tape reveals in a bipartisan way the members of the committee will make sure people show up. the records will be secured that we will get the facts and the truth. but i don't expect that everyone
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one of them will compile. when you see jeffrey rosen and others, this is a different time. we were involved in impeachment one and two under the trump administration where he encouraged others to not obey lawful subpoenas that of congress. we don't have the same attorney general, thank god. we don't have the same administration who would use the department of justice for its own purposes. i expect a very different set of circumstances with bad actors to try to avoid coming forward and obeying a subpoena but i also expect that chairman benny thompson and his committee in a bipartisan singular voice will say we will hold you in criminal contempt if you fail to compile. >> and just to show you the difference, the white house today issued a second letter today reiterating that they are rejecting donald trump's claim of executive privilege and in this letter from the national archives, the white house counsel says president biden does not upheld the privilege
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and urgency of a select committee's need and the president instructs you to provide the page 30 days after the notnotification. do you expect that this will wind up going to court because i can foresee a steve bannon thinking i'll go ahead and break this law. i'll risk arrest. i'll risk contempt of court charges in hopes they can reinstall trump in 2024 and in 2025 he can pardon them. do you worrisome of these people that have no respect for the law, no respect for the united states and traditions will roll the dice? >> i think some will and they'll try to run the clock out. but we had an administration and department of justice and i hope a judiciary who will not allow them to do it. somebody like mr. bannon reveals himself in the stellar legal defense by claiming executive privilege, to which he's not entitled and we had an administration saying we're not
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offering executive privilege for those entitled to it. i want to remind people of the urgency of this. sure, there will be bad actors dragging their feet breaking the law. this is a committee that will work i think really swiftly in the face of that but what i want to remind people of is that this was a violent insurrection attempted and parts of it, the violence was accomplished on january the 6th and it's not over. you see republican colleagues on the floor continuing their big lie. the threat is not ended. it is not over. we see that the former president whose name i'm not going to use is continuing to try to water those seeds of discontent and continue the big lie. for every american, know we in congress recognize the very democracy we enjoy and must practice and protect is at stake. and that's why the work of this
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committee and the work of this congress is to hold people accountable so this never happens again. >> let me play for you stephanie murphy, the congresswoman stephanie murphy and this is what she says ought to happen to those who don't compile with the subpoenas that. >> are you going to use the marshal service to bring people like mark meadows to congress? >> i know we have engaged with a wide variety of law enforcement offices including the u.s. marshals to issue the subpoenas that and we will use everything as you said with all due respect. we will use all of the agencies and all of the tools at our disposal to issue the subpoenas that and enforce them. >> congresswoman dean, do you expect to see u.s. marshals up on the streets rounding up people that need to be before this committee? >> i know the committee and congress has several options. i want to speak directly to mark meadows for example. we can talk about legal
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wrangling and avoiding subpoenas that and is there any way i can claim executive privilege in the face of an administration that won't let me? mark meadows is a public servant. he served in this congress a long side elijah cummings who wasn't spread. his calling is as an american first. he needs to come forward and say absolutely everything he knows about the insurrection, what happened before, who helped plan it, what was the president doing all day long? why was he avoiding coming forward with the national guard to protect his own vice president and congress. mark meadows needs to help up as an american and speak up and say i am here. i will go under oath. i'll tell you everything i know. >> we shall see one should hope. congresswoman madeleine dean, appreciate your time. up next, a supreme court justice directly went after my next guest for being
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eager to nullify roe v wade they didn't wait for original argument. put aside the false and inflammatory claim thatre versu. we did no such thing. >> recent decisions are putting the conservative majority on the defense as the nation's highest court gets called out for playing politics. justice samuel said it's just wrong to depict the court as a dangerous kabul with a secret and improper way hidden from public view. of course, they're ruling to allow texas to move ahead with the restrictive law moving in the middle of the night without hearing a single argument doesn't help the case and the journalist that he was calling out in the sound byte we played for you, "the atlantic" writes
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it only proves his point. alito's speech encapsuated the right wing majority that wants to act poitically to every directive without scrutiny, criticism or protest. and this all comes as president bid biden's commission is ex spejted to release the political report tomorrow. joining me is staff writer for "the atlantic." always great to talk to you. just looking at the way that these shadow docket cases have gone down, the trump administration won 21 out of 48 cases. a 70% success rate. let's look at things they've been able to do. texas restrictive abortion law to go infect. the pay to vote system which is a poll tax in florida. they upheld that. a travel ban. the banning transgender troops. you can go on and on. redirecting military funds to build the wall.
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your argument i thought was brilliant, by the way. they're essentially doing politics but they don't want to be seen as doing politics. just please explain. >> thank you very much, joy. very kind of you to say. basically, what's going on now is the supreme court has a conservative super majority and they don't want their decisions to be questioned. they don't want their decisions to be seen as political even though the 6-3 majority is a result of decades of conserve ti action. they want the public to see them as simply apologize lit tickly interpreting the law. obviously, that's not true. they didn't get put on a court to simply a politically interpret the law. they were put there to decide the cases the legal movement would prefer they be decided. that doesn't mean they will always do that but they're going to do it more often in their favor than a court with a different composition would be and to observe that is religious to state the obvious.
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but the justices on the court have very high opinions of themselves and don't like a suggestion they are in any way politically influenced acting in ways that are political. that is really what explains. in context that's political. the notre dame thing was not as egregious as talking about how they, you know, they're not political hacks. then don't act like one. unfortunately, i mean, this is, you know, this is what the conservative legal movement has worked for and if the left wants to change this set of circumstances, then they should be as committed to saving the courts the way they want them to be shaped as the conservative legal movement has in the last four, five decades. >> you point out alito is saying this in a forum in which the
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press aren't allowed to be there and there is an attitude. they want to conservative right wing legal outcomes and so they stand aside and say sorry, we can't help you in texas because we want that outcome but will let it sit there. it a weird thing. reminds me of the overall right. they want right wing outcomes the majority of the public doesn't want but for some reason they're bothered by the fact, the discontent bothers them. they want the praise the brown v board decision got. they want to be praised for doing it and must know they cannot. >> yeah, you know, i chose my worlds carefully. i didn't say roe v wade had been overturned but nullified. alito got angry about that but the truth is, the women of texas do not need me a columnist from "the atlantic" to tell them they don't have the right to end a pregnancy. they don't need me to tell them they don't have full control over their bodies because that
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is what the legal situation is in texas. if that bothers alito so much, maybe he should have reconsidered the decision he and the other courts conservatives make. >> do you think part of the answer here is for democrats to be as unembarrassed about moving the court back in the pro brown v board as conservatives. you're right. they're acting very politically. they don't want to be criticized but know they want these conservative outcomes. we all know that. they wouldn't have gotten the jobs they actively campaigned to be that person. everyone knew what kavanaugh and these guys were. that's how they got in. should democrats be as unembarrassed about trying to pull the courts back the other way? is that the answer? >> i don't think it's a question of shame. i think it's a question of the fact that the republican party is much less diverse ideological than the democratic party. they are a conservative party mostly made up of conservatives.
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the democratic party is conservatives, liberals. the same action is not there. th courts have driven for generations and unfortunately, as far as democrats are concerned, democrats do not get as excised about what the court does as republicans have in the past and not as committed to shaping the courts in their image. now maybe that will change. i think a lot of people thought that the 2000 decision bush v gore decision would be that flash point especially since the court in that case literally said this decision only couples for the present circumstances, which is an acknowledgement they knew they were behave income a political way but we have yet to see -- i don't think it's a question of unembarrassed but we have yet to see democrats constituencies demanding this kind of aggressive action as far as the courts are concerned that we have seen on the republican side. >> that might change because the courts are behaving in ways that even these politicians can't
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make happen and then those decisions can really impact and harm so many people. i recommend everybody read this piece in "the atlantic." adam, thank you very much. really appreciate you. >> up next, the evil forces behind the unprecedented threats behind our democracy. our absolute worst is next. demy our absolute worst is next ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ if you wake up thinking about the market and want to make the right moves fast...
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♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ supreme court decisions have actions that reverbuate for decades. states no longer need federal approval for election laws including redistricting, which means they have more freedom. that's what happened in texas in the middle of the night last night when the state house passed a proposed map that
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increases the number of districts that are majority white while decreasing the hispanic and black majority districts. despite the fact that people of color made up 95% of the population growth in texas over the past decade, 95% as ari points out only 40% of texasens identify as white but 59% of the districts gary bandered by the district are majority white and 39% of the texas population is hispanic, they're only the majority in 20% of the districts. 12% of texans are black but they're the majority in less than 5% of the new districts. then there is arkansas whose governor approved a map splitting the state's most populous and diverse county into three districts. he said today he heard the complaints that the map would die lute the influence but signed the legislation anyway noting that people have the option to challenge it in court. cool. very helpful. now gerrymandering is one weapon
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they have. 19 states enacted 33 laws that make it harder for americans to vote and guess which voters those target? if that doesn't work, just convince voters that all elections are rigged anyway after the fact. yesterday trump supporters in michigan held a conspiracy filled rally endorsed by their favorite disgraced president to force the state to do, you guessed it, audit with gop congressional candidate john rocha declaring this is a how a revolution starts. qanon was present with a state rep wearing a q button. she said it was a flag with a q on it and said the q is the highest level of security in the federal government. that's what a qanon believer would say. orange julius cesar is threatening if they don't audit the election and the detroit news reports that michigan republicans are replacing election officials with people that questioned the validity of
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the election. so because the unprecedented threat to our democracy, this country is facing because of that, republicans doing everything they can to assure they will win all future elections including enabling the big lie, you are tonight's rather anti democracy absolute worst. but it's not just republican antics we need to pay attention to. we need to talk about whether democrats are fully awake to it. more on that, next. awake to it. mo oren that, next nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure.
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benjamin franklin was once asked what kind of government we have, and he said a republic, if you can keep it. the system he helped devise, the one designed to keep the worst intentions of men at bay is on the verge of collapse. the republican party has abandoned the lofty principles the party was formed with in the very beginning and wholeheartedly embraced donald trump's mantra. they are passing laws so they
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decide who wins elections and maps hand them control of state legislators and the u.s. house of representatives. all of this is exhausting and sometimes you want to curl up in the fetal position and wait for it to pass. here's the thing, it ain't going to pass. trump and trumpism is here to stay. he's getting stronger. gop have embraced his brand of political poison. take virginia for example. in three weeks, voters will choose between democrat terry mcauliffe and democrat young kin. endorse bid donald trump. youngkin is rallying republican supporters vowing to repeal covid mandates, promising to keep critical race theory out of schools and hinting at a desire to roll back reproductive rights, and polls show the race is close, very very close. joining me now ari berman, and ”the new york times” columnist, michelle goldberg. thank you for being here. you put out the numbers on what
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they are doing in texas. what i thought is it's easy to demonize the way they are doing things in texas and arkansas, but virginia is more subtle. youngkin doesn't seem as extreme but at the end of the day, the forces compelling republican politicians all compel in one direction, demonize women's right to choose, throw critical race theory, you know, red meat at the base. they're all going to do it. do you have concerns that even people who try to fool you into thinking they're a moderate like youngkin wind up playing the same game in 2024? >> well, i think it's become very clear in the last year that there are very few moderates left in the republican party and that attacking the democratic process is now the central organizing principle of the gop. remember, the republican candidate for governor kicked off his campaign by lying about what happened in 2020 and made that his key platform. but i think what republicans are doing in texas is so revealing because it's really the
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prototype of their governing strategy, which is to pass so many extreme and unpopular laws from basically banning abortion to allowing you to carry a gun without a permit to whitewashing how history is taught, to extreme voter suppression laws. they want to be able to do all of this extreme stuff without any accountability, and that's why they're doing the gerrymandering and the voter suppression, so they can essentially override the will of the voters who want to hold them accountable. >> the thing is they're not satisfied to do this in places like texas and arkansas. they're coming for blue states. they made a run at the california governorship, trying to unseat the governor and replace him with a trumper. this governor in virginia, he's talking the same way that trump is, just at a lower volume, and if he gets in, the challenge democrats are going to have is that he, too, will be in position to mess with the vote in virginia in 2024, and i feel like at this point voters need to be single issue on that. i'm not sure that they are in a place like virginia.
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what do you think? >> virginia, a state like virginia is obviously a much bigger prize for the republican party. i mean, as much as we all like to forecast the day that texas will finally turn blue or at least purple it's pretty likely that the republican is going to win fair and square in texas in 2024. it's less likely they're going to win a state like virginia which is why a party devoted to minority rule, a party that believes only they have a legitimate right to govern, why they would need to be in a position to mess with the process in virginia. and so i think that that's what, you know, they sort of showed us even if their symbolic way how you can mess up an election. how you can, with the right people in place send duel slates of electors to congress, how you can get a republican house to perhaps -- how you can get people to, you know, sort of mess up the counting of the vote, and so they have the game
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plan. now they know how to enact it. >> and the thing is, ari, they've got a both front end and back end strategy. on the front end, they make it hard to vote, and do things to mess with gerrymandering, to ensure as many republican districts as possible, as red as possible and drown out democratic candidates putting two congressmen in the same district like they're doing in texas. on the back end, and they say, oh, the election was invalid, recount until we win. it's like they've got both sides covered and so that is why i am concerned about a virginia race because if they get control of any part of that government, particularly the governorship, there's no way to stop them at that point. >> that's right. i mean, the easiest way to steal an election is to rig it ahead of time, which is why they have been so focused on voter suppression and now so focused on gerrymandering. if somehow that doesn't work, then they're going to try to steal the election after the
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fact. and i think that's what's so new and disturbing about their strategy is they have been doing the front of it for a long time, joy. but the back end of it is what is newer about their strategy and what makes all of the election subversion so dangerous, and we've learned over the last year that states are national battles. if you care about what's happening in congress, you care about the national landscape, you have to care about the states, not just because states copy each other and a lot of people obviously live in those places but also the fact that states are the ones, the places where the voting happens, right, and where the election is certified before it even goes to washington and so i think we really have to pay very close attention to what's going on in places like texas, what's happening in places like virginia, and then the fact that republicans are doing everything they can to make it harder to vote, democrats who have power in washington need to do everything they can to make it easier to vote, to protect voting rights, that's the piece that has been missing here all along. >> and the urgency i think is
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missing, the urgency on having a national strategy, that's gone way back burner. getting exhausted watching them fail to do it. and you have youngkin with a running mate toting an ar-15, doing the critical race theory game, and you look at the polling, mcauliffe is only up 3 points over him in the latest ugov poll. you know, he's winning on covid vaccines a little bit. create more jobs, an old fashioned traditionally republican issues, which i don't know why people believe that. it concerns a lot of folks who look at virginia because it doesn't feel like that urgent message is getting through. >> well, i think, i mean, look, voters are demoralized, you know, they stayed on high alert for four years. they've contended with crisis after crisis, trauma after trauma. part of the promise of a biden presidency, at least the hope of
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a biden presidency that was people didn't have to pay life or death minute by minute attention to the news but, in fact, trumpism hasn't gone away. so you know, i would be worried about these polls, especially since we know that republicans are just less likely to answer pollsters in the first place. at the same time, i do think we saw it in california that if you light a fire under democrats f they understand the stakes and sort of understand what republicans have in store for them, they will ultimately turn out. >> well, the fire would be, ari, do you want virginia to be texas in terms of covid, in terms of vaccine mandates, in terms of silly fights over what's taught in schools, do you want virginia to be texas. isn't that probably the simplest way to put it? >> exactly. and virginia ten years ago was a lot more like texas than it is virginia today. and they have made a lot of progress, and i don't think they want to lose the things they
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fought for. >> ari berman, michelle goldberg. pennsylvania attorney general josh shapiro who has been at the forefront of the fight against the big lie joins my in his first national interview before launching his campaign for governor. vote, vote, vote in virginia, very important. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" big news from the january 6th committee the man at the heart of the coup attempt in the justice department. >> he's the central person in this saga, and at some point his testimony is going to be obtained. >> plus, how federal judges are stepping up and leading the way on the prosecution of january 6th insurrectionists. then, the white house addresses the shortage of everything. >> today we have some good news. we're going to help speed up the delivery of goods all across

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