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tv   Ayman  MSNBC  October 10, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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i'm joined by nba champion jeremy lin who israce -- raising awareness of mental health issues around the world. fresh details on that bizarre chaos of the trump administration. as new reporting lunacy that took place. trump boasted about the crowds who showed up for the january 6 insurrection, according to multiple sources who were in contact with him during the riot. one aide reportedly told carl that trump had to rerecord that infamous video posted to twitter. you know, the one where he said to the rioters, we love you. because, quote, in the rejected
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earlier versions that trump recorded, he neglected to actually tell the supporters to leave the capitol. then there's this really bogus theory. >> as detailed in betrayal, two sources familiar with clark's actions told me he believes that wireless thermostats made in china for google by a company called nest labs might have been used to manipulate voting machines in georgia. the idea was nuts. >> it adds fuel to the fire of what we know about our former president. he was obsessed with conspiracy theories and was willing to use any means necessary to keep power within his grip. we know this. trump idolized authoritarianism. he was obsessed with status. when the former president visited france for a parade, he was so enamored that he decided he wanted to hold one for himself in washington. trump demanded the pentagon get
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to work on organizing a military show of force. advisors worked to try to tell trump, this was not a good idea. the estimated price tag for getting tanks rolling down pence avenue just to appease the president, $90 million. luckily for american taxpayers in the streets of d.c., that plan was shelved. it's one of a laundry list of confounding experiences that played out on the world stage. america's reputation in a state of disrepair. a problem which landed squarely on president biden's desk on his first day in office. an issue he has been trying to resolve ever since. >> so the message i want the world to hear today. america is back. america is back. diplomacy is back. at the center of our foreign policy. >> biden's been in a diplomatic blitz. he has been trying to make peace with enemies and allies alike. the question is, is it really
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working? do our allies trust us? our withdrawal from afghanistan has been globally criticized. the afghan people, our nato allies feel abandoned as america packed up and left after 20 years. what about our old friends in france? one of america's closest allies. france and the u.s. have enjoyed warm relations even under president trump. a political scrimmage last molest the french furious after the u.s. was seen to have undercut a multibillion dollar deal in which australia was set to buy submarines from fans. they instead penned an alliance with the u.s. and the uk to share nuclear powered submarines. that's very rare to see happen among allies. biden has since gone to lengths to smooth things over with france. he and the president macron set to meet later this month. it begs the question as far as
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the world is concerned, is america really back? joining me now is a man who can help us answer that. the french ambassador to the u.s. thank you for joining us. i have to say, welcome back. i know you were recalled to paris. you are now back in d.c. i want to start broadly. you have been an ambassador to the united states since the end of 2019. basically, you have been here under two very different administrations. can you compare for us the differences that you have experiences between these two presidents so far? >> well, first, thank you for having me tonight. there would be a lot of differences between those two administrations. the reason why we have -- in particular, the fact that we were surprised and shocked not to have any consultation on an
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issue which was clearly a very central issue to my country. this now famous deal on submarines with australia, it was much more than a commercial deal. it was an essential part of our strategy in the pacific region. in between president biden has reached out. they had discussion. we are rebuilding trust with a discussion of strategic agenda. a lot of contacts going on between the american government and the french government. >> i certainly will ask you a little more about the nuclear deal and the lessons learned and what you want to see going forward. let me just draw on your experience, if i can, as a top diplomat who has been in washington. the strength of the american/french relationship, when you see something that happened on january 6, this insurrection in our country. you were watching it, you were watching it play out.
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were you concerned, particularly during this moment, during this period in america? did you express concern to your government about the strength of american democracy? >> well, obviously, everybody in the world was -- on january 6, watched -- was watching what happened. our president made a very strong statement in support of democracy. it was a reminder that democracies are vulnerable. not only here in the united states, but the united states being the most important democracy -- i mean, considering the importance of the united states. everybody in france and europe i am sure in the world was really, yes, concerned about what was happening and tried to understand. >> let's talk a little bit about this submarine deal. this has, as you mention, been
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unquestionably a bitter blowout between the u.s. and france. president macron was furious about this. it's been called a stab in the back. you and your australian counterpart were recalled. the french foreign minister speaking with a local radio station said, this brutal unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of what mr. trump used to do. then you had this interesting moment with the u.s. special on on -- what's your feeling how the u.s. handled this? >> i can only give you the point of view of my country. i cannot the story on the side of the u.s. what is important in this
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process that when the two presidents had a phone call, they agreed and they even made public written statement on this. there should be more consultation. we should be inspired to build our relation, to build up our relation in the future. it is what we are doing now, which involves more consultations and in particular in some very, very strategic issues. we perfect discussing european defense. we are discussing fight against terrorism and all of this, of course, needs a lot of consultations between our two countries and also between europe and countries and the united states. >> you know, given the history of who president trump was, using the word that this was something he expected or would have anticipated from mr. trump, do you understand that's a
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pretty derogatory statement made in reference to president biden. that's a strong statement to say there is any similarity. does the french government still stand by that statement? >> look, it was the reaction after something which should not happen between the allies. it doesn't mean that we didn't welcome some decisions taken by this administration, for instance, coming back the very first day to the paris climate agreement and many other decisions. but this time really, it was a shock not to have any consultation. so you can understand the reactions we had. now we try to overcome -- the two countries try to overcome this and we try to -- through this process, we try to really
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rebuild this trust and to -- on a solid base. >> let me play devil's advocate for a moment. you talked about -- you brought up the situation in the pacific and a country like australia and the security arrangement and considerations it has. from a very black and white perspective, why wouldn't australia buy american nuclear submarines when they see china doing what it is doing in places like taiwan? china is a greater threat. doesn't it make sense australia would want to form that alliance? why would you be upset with australia for forming that alliance if it's not just a commercial dispute? >> well, first, nobody in france will contest the sovereign right of any country to take such decisions. you must realize that australia itself had in 2016 chosen the
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classical, traditional, non-nuclear propulsion for submarines much we were building together with australia a new manufacturing, a new industry in australia. this contract was going on well. if australia wants to change, because of the new environment, why not? but then why not speak with france first and also together with the u.s.? why not? we in france, we use military nuclear submarines. so we have also capability there. again, the question of trust is that they didn't come to talk to us about the new deal, a new way of doing things. this deal was for us really important for strategic partnership with australia. australia is one of the most important partners in the
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indo-pacific. >> allow me to ask you a few questions about france. it's rare to have you on the program. we are fortunate. i want to ask you about what's happening there right now. as you are well aware from this side of the atlantic, there seems to be issues of concern about white nationalism and xenophobia. i will put up a few highlights. we have seen the french government shut down mosques. women unable to wear hijab. it is an islamaphobic trend. does france have an islamaphobia problem? >> no. i don't think it is islamaphobia. what has been made by the french -- what has been decided by the french parliament in the last month, especially this new legislation to reinforce the
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principals of our republic is meant to fight against radicalization. i think radicalization is a danger for all the french citizens, whatever they are, muslim or jewish or -- france is a real -- is a real diverse country. we have one of the largest muslim communities in europe. we are the third largest jewish community in the world. we are really very much attached to this diversity, to this tolerance. this is the base of our policy, exactly the contrary to fight against racism, to fight for tolerance. it's a base for our society. >> but what does it say -- you probably heard me in the beginning of the segment -- i know you have presidential elections next year.
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one of the most prominent potential candidates is a person convicted of racial incitement. he wants to ban non-french names. he is a person getting a lot of traction. what does that say about the politics of your country that someone like this could have such popularity in this current climate? >> for the time being, i think it says only one thing, that candidates or potential candidates try to put the question of migration, immigration in the center, in the focus of the political debate. the elections -- thank you for asking about our elections. it will be a very important moment for us, for our democracy -- will take place at the end of april next year. it's both close by still quite far. we don't even know who will be -- who are the candidates. some candidates are known. others are not.
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it's a bit early to describe how things will play out during the elections. there will be some debates, especially from the side of some candidates on those issues. >> we look forward to having more conversations with you. you have a standing invite to come back any time to discuss that. we greatly appreciate your time. thank you so much for joining us. still ahead, president manchin versus president biden. treasury secretary janet yellen warns of a debt ceiling catastrophe. today is world mental health day. jeremy lin will join me to discuss the growing conversation surrounding mental health and sports. first, the headlines. >> very busy show. stories we are watching. authorities say no charges will be filed against the passenger
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whose behavior prompted an emergency landing at la guardia saturday. the flight stopped on the tarmac as emergency crews restrained the passenger who witnesses claimed had been acting erratically. there was no threat to the aircraft. a shootout inside a paul in minnesota left one woman dead and 14 wounded sunday morning. the victims are expected to survive. three men were arrested. police are investigating that case. a motive has yet to be determined. and the president of the czech republic was rushed to the hospital sunday. the news comes as the czech government is in the midst of forming a new administration. several political parties in the country are vying for the ailing president's endorsement in the ongoing process. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.
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54 days, that's the amount of time our leaders in congress have to avoid a government shutdown and avert economic devastation. no pressure, guys. none whatsoever. on december 3, government funding will run out. that's the new date that the debt ceiling will be reached. this morning janet yellen sounded the alarm about the danger of defaulting on our debt. >> there's an enormous amount at stake. a failure to race the debt ceiling would probably cause a recession and could result in a financial crisis. it would be a catastrophe. >> the stakes are clear. the big question is, will a deal
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be any easier to reach in the next 54 days than it has been in the past ten months? let's discuss this with our panel for the evening. jameel smith, joan walsh and kerb katella. great to have you with us. joan, i would like to start with you. the two month dead ceiling -- debt ceiling -- they cobbled together 11 republicans to end the filibuster. former president trump had been urging them to oppose a debt ceiling. last night, at an iowa rally, he blasted mcconnell. let me play that for you. >> to think we had 11 republicans go along with an. tension.
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headed up by mitch mcconnell. it gives the democrats more time. two months. the more time to figure it out. they can now have two more months to figure out how to screw us. >> besides the fact that the hypocrisy on the republican side about the issue of the debt ceiling is absolutely -- it's absolutely ridiculous how rip critical they are. in the current political climate, even with mitch mcconnell saying he will not help the democrats out, is there any chance it gets done in the next 54 days? >> if the democrats can do it alone. i was actually a little bit unhappy to see this postponement of the debt ceiling confrontation. it's very clear they're going to have do it by themselves. they're probably going to have to do it via reconciliation. i don't think schumer has come
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up with compelling arguments that give any of us reason to believe that they're going to get some republican votes in two months. that's not going to happen. i think it's so outrageous. we have worn that word out talking about donald trump. this is money that he has spent. this is paying debts that were incurred on his watch. the debt ceiling is routinely increased with democratic participation while he was president. it was right to do it when he was president but wrong to do it now. it's just ridiculous. >> that's why i was saying it's the height of hypocrisy for republicans to pretend they are fiscally responsible and not increasing the debt ceiling. which brings us to an interesting point. it's something that your colleague dillon matthews wrote about that listed ways joe biden could end the debt ceiling by himself, including minting a
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coin and nullifying the debt ceiling. how likely is it the president will use these or any other ways to finally kill the debt ceiling? are we going to see it done through reconciliation? >> honestly, i hope he does it quickly. we continue to see the debt ceiling used as a political football. something to -- one side to gain an advantage over another. as of late, republicans to use as leverage to end any hopes that -- for a democratic agenda getting passed. the key here is that mitch mcconnell was not asking for any concessions. in previous years, this has been done in order to extract certain line items or just to embarrass the administration. now it seems like it's being done -- it's the work of chaos agents really. i think if you counter the work of chaos agents by minting a $20
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trillion coin or declaring it unconstitutional, i think that's decided less crazy than what the republicans are doing now. >> i have to play this moment that was ironic that happened. it was senator koons on fox. this is what he said. watch. >> if we're going to solve problems facing the american people, we have to be able to work together. while i completely understand president schumer's frustration, the timing may not have been the best. >> you said president schumer. i think you meant senator manchin. >> i'm sorry. >> maybe we should say president manchin at this point. >> should we be calling him president manchin at this point? joking aside, in all seriousness, what consequences is this going to have for negotiations in the future when one man has the power to derail
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congress? he doesn't represent anyone besides himself in the party. >> yeah. i tell you, democrats -- my fellow democrats out there, if you are looking for a reason why we need to expand our majority beyond the one threshold vote that we have right now, exhibit a is joe manchin. the idea that someone who represents less than 2 million people in the country can hold 300 million people for ransom is absurd. it shows the failure of how our process isn't working. the breed erbroader implicatione end up having is for weeks nonstop narratives about process stories, about inside baseball, how democrats are in disarray, things aren't working. it hijacks the message of the democratic party. instead of talking about expanding voting rights, calling out the assault on women's rights in texas and other states, instead of focusing on
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virginia with the important and competitive race unfolding right now, we end up using our oxygen about process. the american people have no idea how the debt ceiling process works. come november of 2022 or 2024, no one voting is going to be voting because of what happened with the debt ceiling crisis and the votes that happened before that. we need to move past these things. it's in the best interest of the president, of the democratic party to do a quick fix to this. do it definitively. take the political football off the field so we can talk about the issues that actually affect the american people in a real and tangible way. >> certainly, i don't think as you are saying, i don't think any american will say i won't vote for one party or other because there is no bipartisanship. they are going to want to vote to see if things get done. thank you very much for joining us this evening. appreciate your time. last night's match will be considered by many as one of the greatest fights of all time. sometimes the biggest lessons
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last night's big fight was an instant classic. it's the comments after that have us taking a look. watch. >> he popped me down. that's boxing. it's life as well. it's not about how much times you get put down or how many times you lose. it's how you come back and keep getting back up and move forward. you have to keep moving forward in a positive manner and keep a in life in general. you have to sacrifice and
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dedicate and keep pushing. never let anybody tell you you can't. tonight, again, time and time again, i show it's very possible to achieve anything you ever want as long as you believe it in here. >> congrats on the big win. that's an important message, particularly because today is world mental health day. coming up next, i will speak to jeremy lin. you will remember him from his time with the new york knicks. he is so much more than just an athlete. he has a lot to say about athletes, mental health, even his work as a unicef ambassador. don't go anywhere. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ got a couple of bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo...
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advocate jeremy lin as its newest ambassador. he spoke out about working through his own struggles and learning to unwire within a sports culture that encourages athletes to push through instead of addressing their mental health concerns. it's especially fitting that i'm having him on tonight on world mental health day. jeremy lin joins me now. it's great to speak to you. thank you for joining us. this is a very important subject. let's talk about the issue of mental health in the sports world. a lot of progress is being made. there's a dialogue taking place. from your perspective as a player, are you sensing a change in how it's being discussed and dealt with? >> i definitely think there's a change. even just from an awareness standpoint. what simone biles did is a great example. the topic was pushed to the forefront. everyone was talking. i remember seeing people write,
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she's this or that. again, the stigma around it, it's like, you don't think she's been thinking about the olympics for the last four years nonstop? you don't think she's hypercompetitive and has literally poured her life into becoming great at what she does and when the moment comes for her to say, i'm not able to do it, that alone has pushed the conversation forward so much. regardless of what side of the table or anywhere on the spectrum you feel like you land, at least this conversation is being discussed. i do feel like there's been huge progress. >> talk to me about your own experiences. you were hospitalized because of covid-19 recently. you say that had a real impact on your own mental health. tell us what that was like. what did you learn about yourself through dealing with that? >> i learned that the quarantine
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or isolation was months, so for me, i learned that i guess it's just okay to ask for help. it's okay to rely on people. it's okay to open up. again, it's one of those things where growing up, especially playing basketball and just not wanting to show weakness. right? or always wanting to push through on man up or these types of things. i'm not saying it's not there of persevere and character, resilience and things like that. i understand there is truth to some of the phrases or these buzzwords thrown around. but there's a certain point where it's also, hey, a human isn't built to go through life alone. there will be tens of thousands of times when you have to lean into other people. if you don't, it's going to be very, very difficult. it's going to be very harmful to yourself. that's something i learned. i started therapy.
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i started doing weekly sessions. we started at around 90 minutes. we moved to two hours because i was going through a lot. it's been really, really -- it's been quite the last couple months. >> yeah. i'm curious to get your thoughts in the dynamics of the sport you play. you have tennis that's an individual sport. in the world of boxing, you are in the ring by yourself. you are a basketball player. it's a team sport. different dynamic. do you worry about letting your team down if you need to take the mental health day? are you open enough about it that you can go to your teammates and say, i'm not the best that i can be for you because i need to take time for my mental health and well-being? >> yeah, i mean, i know -- i guess the closest is kind of what simone biles had to do. yes, it's an individual sport but she had to rely on her
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teammates to rally. we saw lee take gold. we saw a lot of different things happen. i guess the -- each more so team sport, per se, because you don't have individual rankings is in basketball. it's a tough thing to say. again, i think it's having that conversation early and often so that it's not like right before tip-off, what happened? that's the thing that i realize. if you do open up and you are transparent, i have never had a bad reception from a teammate. i'm saying, like, what's going on? when you spend that much time around each other, your character shines through. whether you prepare for the game and care about the team, these things, they eventually know and come to respect. if you aren't able to play, it's for a good reason. >> jeremy, you are a global superstar. you have had the privilege of playing in america. now you are playing in china. talk to us about the difference
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in the cultures of the two countries in terms of how they deal with athletes and the pressures of the sport and mental health. for all the praise that athletes like osaka and biles got from the mainstream media here, there were still -- there is an undercurrent of criticism against them for withdrawing from top level competition. what do you say to people like that who think athletes should just suck it up and power through it? how are the cultures difference between china and the u.s. on that front? >> you know, i have only played one year out here. i'm not -- i couldn't say that i know exactly all the differences or nuances. i will say exactly what you are saying. it's not -- it's a mixed bag right now. the reaction is a mixed bag. you don't know exactly what -- who will say what. i think at the end of the day, athletes, celebrities are elevated, put on a pedestal.
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people forget, yes, we have been blessed with a lot, whether it's talent, fame, money, power, all these things. at the end of the day, they all come with responsibility. they come with pressure. honestly, it's taxing on your mental health. that is something that i think -- i just wish everybody would be a little bit slower to judge and realize, hey, anybody who is world class probably got there by being pretty special. when they say there's something wrong, we should probably give them the grace and the safe space to be able to say that and to know that that takes more courage to say something like that because it's -- you are thrown in the spotlight. everybody can see. it takes courage to say something like that. >> i have to ask before i let you go, there's a big debate about vaccines.
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in the nba, a lot of attention on what's taking place. you played in the nba. you know some of the guys who have kept a little of their decision on whether the nba should mandate vacvaccines. i'm occur -- i'm curious where you come down on that. what do you think about the debate? >> there's no mandate out here or anything. obviously, you are being covid tests. we have three phases. the first two are in a bubble. we are isolated. at least for the first four months of the season, five months of the season. what i think about it is, i just went through it. i got a breakthrough case. when i was in the hospital, the doctors -- every doctor that came in first question was, are you vaccinated, are you
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vaccinated, which vaccine. they talked about the difference between vaccinated patients and unvaccinated patients. they talked about the symptoms and how the fever can last five times -- five days longer for somebody without a vaccine. they talk about huge differences between recovery time and symptoms and stuff like that. for me, it's something that personally i think it makes a difference. at the same time, i totally understand when somebody says, i don't -- it's my body. i want to make sure i'm putting into it what i want to put into it. i respect that decision as well on any individual front. i know that for me personally, going through it, being in the hospital, being around it, surrounded by patients who all had covid in the hospital, it was literally the first thing ever doctor asked was, are you vaccinated, which vaccine and that it would help with symptoms and recovery time. >> basketball global superstar jeremy lin, i appreciate you
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getting up early in china there. i appreciate your time. best of luck in the new role as an ambassador. thank you for using your voice to put a spotlight on it. coming up, how do you solve a problem like facebook? who better to ask than the technology ethicist himself tristan harris. he joins me when we come right back. e come right back hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hi susan! honey? yeah? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need.
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made the rounds this morning. they pressed on whether it watch. >> given thousands algorithms and thousands of people using this i can't give you a yes or no answer to the feeds that each person uses. >> joining me now to discuss is tristan harris co-founder of center for humane technology, spent his career studying the platforms to become the social fabric by which we live and think. what did you think of the testimony and the outrage southerning what's transpiring around facebook? that sound bite is alarming for me because they're saying that your news feeder what you see is actually being determined by algorithms that we don't have a
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good understanding of. >> i think -- you know, what we have seen this week is gaslighting by a company that we know this whole time that the proof of what frances offered is not her words. it is not about her credit jblt there's thousands of pages of pook research that show that the business model drives polarization in society. you don't have to believe her. what we have seen is for example in europe we know from their own documents that it made political parties in to land, taiwan, india go more negative because they used to be publish policy papers about the agriculture policy and would get traffic and then suddenly changed the algorithm to reward meaningful social interactions and that they said we know you change the algorithm because we get traffic saying negative things about the
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opponents. what nick said is how can we know if it's polarizing anyone before january 6 but the bias, the tilt the show the most extreme attention so it is like for every person the thing that makes you more right and certain and please to a mass fragmentation of society. it is showing people a more incommiserate model of what's going on. >> you have to draw the red line because that's the most important thing. joking aside for a moment there, frances haugen that you were talking about she proposed during her testimony this week that congress should try to make them libel for content that the algorithms promote. what do you make of the proposal? is this realistic and that
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simple? >> so basically the aim of the proposal is to say that so long as we have an ai pointed at the brain trying to figure out what maximizes engagement, that is always going to lead to the unpredictable results so a solution is to make them liable for what they amplify but what that would lead to the goal of it is to get to a world where companies only afford to rank by reversz chronology and who posted ten seconds ago and then five moneys ago because that sets up a feed not sorting by outrage and creates other incentive. if i'm russia and juan to manipulate the u.s. i would post as often as possible. it is important to note that you would have to do this across all platforms because if facebook does that but tiktok points an
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ai at the brain to stimulate the nervous system that is not enough. it has to go across the social media platforms and our aim shouldn't be to get to slightly toxic social media. we have a democracy with a brain in it that basically wants to drive the society crazy and looking at the comparison of china they make the society work more coherently together. our goal should be to create digital open societies where democracy and technology is stronger democracy, better governance, more civic participation and the taiwan mod sell the best example of that and make sure that policymakers not just trying to filter out so we get 30% less of the bad stuff. >> you took the words out of my mouth. what is taiwan doing that makes it successful?
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>> people should actually -- we have a podcast where we interviewed the digital minister. the undecided attention. people should look at what taiwan is doing to give an optimistic vision of a future where through technology when you have a complaint about say the tax system instead of leading to an outrage feed and everybody gets their reality and charts and graphs to ruin thanksgiving if you complain about the tax system in taiwan on the platform you go into a civic process to improve the tax system. and then you're invited into a citizen deliberative group and when the different clusters of users agree that's what taiwan puts to the top of the sort of civic information system. >> incredible. >> sorts for consensus and what
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makes the society work better and that should be the goal and not just 10% less toxic social media but open societies that technology strengthens the society. >> i'm glad that we finish the show on the positive note. and a little bit of optimism on technology because after this week it is draining and made people actually i think nervous and exhausted. i have seen people shutting down the facebook pages and you wonder if it is going in the right direction. you raise valid points to think about here. a great pleasure to have you on the program. >> thank you for giving me the chance to talk optimism today. >> any time. thank you, at home. catch "ayman" every friday on peacock and saturdays at 8:00 and sundays at 9:00. follow me and the show on twitter and tiktok.
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there will be highlights, you know, stuff from behind the scenes. clips. everything you want and more. until we meet again, i'm ayman mohyeldin. good night. xxxx reason, or fun. daring, or thoughtful. sensitive, or strong. progress isn't either or progress is everything. ♪darling, i, i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get enough of your love babe♪
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tonight an historic number of latinos in a presidential cabinet. we'll talk with all of them. secretary of the department of homeland

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