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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 8, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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who went on tuckums show to say that president obama rejects the white side of his family, even though obama called his white mother the single most important thing in his life. black conservatives who have to beclown themself at the jim crow table are tonight's absolute worst. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in, " 25 years of division and anger. >> why can't he produce a birth certificate? >> deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture. >> the strategy is to change the demographics of the country. >> i'm more angry about it than you are. >> tonight the undeniable evidence that fox news is the real source of america's rising rage. >> you think we're bad for america? do you think i'm bad for america? >> yeah. >> and what we know about what's
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being turned over as the white house denies donald trump's request to keep his records secret, and the january 6th committee promises action to compel people to talk. plus, as one senator worries about the silence of the chickens. >> one or the other was going to turn or you were going to have a lot of dead chickens. >> what to make of today's rough job numbers with jared bernstein and why on earth is the rental market getting out of control, when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. you've probably seen these viral videos going around of people losing their minds at school board meetings. you may have seen this video of a woman berating a mother because the mom's kid was wearing a mask. >> you're traumatizing him if you don't let him breathe through it. >> that's my choice. that's my choice.
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you better respect my choice. >> no. you are propagandaized. you're not being told the truth. >> now, this is to put it mildly incredibly anti-social behavior. just wildly outside the parameters of anything you would want or expect in civil society. you think to yourself, well, where would someone even get the idea to do something like that? well, we have an answer. >> as we're forcing children to wear masks outside, that should be illegal. your response when you see children wearing masks as they play should be no different from your response to seeing someone beat a kid in walmart. call the police immediately. contact child protective services. keep calling until someone arrives. what you're looking at is abuse. it's child abuse and you are morally obligated to attempt to prevent it. >> there is a direct pipeline from what appears on fox news to the absolute worst manifestations, worst behavior, worst elements of our politics in society. input to output, clear and strong connection.
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just take a step back and survey the wreckage at the current moment, this unprecedented era in american politics. the first president without any meaningful political or military experience. the first president impeached twice. the first deadly insurrection which tried to interrupt the transfer of power and overthrow the duly elected government since basically the cannons firing at ft. sumpter during the civil war. we have experienced all of that. these generally novel unprecedented destructive events in just a few years. how did we get here? the answer is in large part fox news. and so it is fitting that on the network's 25th anniversary, they are patting themselves on the back amid all the pomp and circumstance, donald trump, the monster they created, both an avid fox news viewer and the network's quintessential talking head, the real life case study of what happens when you try to govern the country based on misinformation, he was who they
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chose to have on to complete the circle. the logical conclusion of fox's quarter century-long project to rebuild the united states in its image. it was exactly the kind of sick fan particular propaganda you would expect. not the pretense of asking trump a tough question about a new report that implicated him in an attempted coup. instead we got the same disgusting vile racist attacks on immigrants that have been fox news's brand over the last two decades. trump the politician and his racism, nativism, almost entire low a creation of fox news. and the project that roger ailes first set out to make half a century ago, when he pitched then president richard nixon on a news network that would beam pro republican coverage directly into americans' homes every night. trump's presidency was ailes vision for the country, the
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country we now have, which is being torn to shreds in the midst of a democratic crisis and a deadly once in a century pandemic, which is so much deadlier than it needs to be in large part because of what fox is putting out every night. there's a body count there. fox's corrosion of our discourse may be reaching a crescendo now. but the network's debut 20 years ago was the point that started to push this country on its current tra jek tore, heightened polarization and distrust of institutions. from the clinton impeachment to the 2000 presidential election between george w. bush and al gore, which gore won the popular vote of, its chaotic aftermath to the culture war madness of the post 9/11 era and lead-up to the iraq war. the dixie chicks were removed from polite society for daring to criticize president george w. bush.
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and the house of representatives started serving freedom fries to protest france's opposition to the iraq war. and of course the war itself, it was touted as a huge success on the network while its critics, who were of course ultimately vindicated by history welcome back were lambasted. to the barack obama's presidency and the birtherism, which was donald trump's first major foray into the political discourse. and that set the groundwork for the entire maga movement. all this was fueled by fox news and the perpetual conservative outrage machine. and it's not just speculation. there's been studies done on this. studies that determined fox news is a real motivating factor in american politics. one study found that fox's impact increased republicans' vote share in presidential elections by three to four points. in a country as polarized as ours, that is enough to be massively consequential. for reference, republicans have won the popular vote exactly once since the 1980s.
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in 2004 george w. bush did win an outright majority of voters. but according to this study, if it was not for a boost from fox news, the outcome would have been reversed. and it's not just voters. republican politicians basically live in fear of fox, the backlash it can inspire. in his memoir, former republican speaker of the house john boehner writes about that destructive influence that it had on his party. he recounts going to confront roger ailes about fox's coverage. i once met him in new york during the obama years to plead with him to put a leash on some of the crazies he was putting on the air. it was making my job trying to accomplish anything conservative that much harder. boehner goes on to say ailes was not receptive to his request. he was not just cynic kael manipulating right-wing outrage, roger ailes believed it all too. he weaponized an entire conservative media empire to broadcast that pathological
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paranoia. at least until he was forced out of the network he built when more than 20 women, including high-profile fox anchors, accused him of sexual harassment. he died shortly thereafter. and so it is true that to a certain extent fox operates as a state-run tv for elected republicans. just listen to former trump secretary stephanie grisham describe the relationship. >> what was the role of fox news in the white house? >> that's just where we went to get what we wanted out. they by and large didn't get tough with us. they just took what we were saying and disseminated it. >> elected republicans obviously use fox to disseminate pro party propaganda. we also cannot ignore the reverse wag the dog reality where increasingly republican politicians are themselves avid fox viewers. that's where they get their information. they follow the network's lead.
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kevin drum highlights one example of fox leading the party in that great mother jones piece. starting in march fox mentioned critical race theory 1300 times in the space of three months. by -- all this brings us back to our presenting moment where every day as we continue to chronicle on this show, fox news is pushing out a constant stream of public health misinformation that is getting people sick, getting them into the hospital, getting them killed, and prolonging this pandemic. it's unconscionably dark. it's the darkest, most extreme logical conclusion you can imagine for where this entire enterprise would end up. you've got these phenomenally rich, elite fox hosts sitting in their little studios under the lights with hair and makeup and expensive clothes working for a company that mandates either vaccines or daily testing
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regime, precisely the policy they're railing against. they won't say that. they won't say anything about their bosses because they're too cowardly. instead what they're doing is pushing poison into people's brains that gets them sick. this is where both the modern enterprise of fox news and the conservative movement more broadly have ended up. the most acute threat to american democracy we have seen in 150 years. so happy 25th anniversary, guys. you did it. i want to bring in two people who have been studying the detrimental effect of fox news for years, joan walsh where she's written about the damaging impact fox has on our nation's health and eric boelert. he monitors right-wing propaganda in the post trump world. eric, let me start with you. there's an important point about the landscape of american politics. people watching this show most likely consume a lot of different media from a lot of different places.
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they maybe listen to pr, read newspapers and we have pew data to back this up. if you're talking about democrats, here are things used by one third of democrats, abc news, nbc news, cbs news, msnbc. republicans it's just fox. basically 40% of the country, there is a monopoly of information on those folks. >> yeah. i mean it's one-stop shopping. yes, there's oan, yes, there's newsmax, yes, they have splintered off even farther, farther right. when you talk about propaganda, it's so much more effective if there's only one place to go and fox news has created that. the history you gave was dead on. you hit all the key points. the recount, 9/11, the war in iraq. when stephanie grisham talks about we go on fox news and they don't ask us tough questions, they're the propaganda for the gop, to me that's fox news circa 2014. what you described, what this country is now facing with the
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pandemic, which has revealed and both broken these people, is beyond description. fox news has -- we'll never know how many people fox news killed. off the top of my head, 100,000 i think is a reasonable estimate. and, you know, we've all talked about it being a cult, it being brainwashing and people used to shake their heads. you can't talk about the media who you talk about brain wash, it's just a conservative outlet. it's brainwashing and it's a cult because lives are at stake. this is not about immigration, this is not about tax reform, it's not about obama is a socialist. these are about their viewers literally taking their own lives at the behest of vaccinated hosts and everyone at fox news not giving a damn and cheering the 25th anniversary. there was an interview with the ceo this week. she says she sleeps great at night. she doesn't have a concern in the world. she's spending those murdoch paychecks. and everyone is overseeing a
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death cult for ratings. it's mind boggling. but that is where this brainwashing movement has ended. real quick, when you add a gop party embracing authoritarianism, fox news brainwashing and a qanon cult, that is a formula for a crumbling democracy, which we are seeing right now. >> you know, the cynicism is key here that eric mentions, joan. this is something i've been really struck by. the combination of the cynicism and cowardice. all of these hosts, laura ingraham and tucker carlson and sean hannity, they go on and peddle this vaccine misinformation. they won't say a word. >> we know that they are vaccinated. >> yes. >> we know they are vaccinated. >> almost certainly vaccinated. but that cynicism is carrying on roger ailes' tradition. i want to read this quote. you wrote about your one meeting with him.
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so this is him from his memo to nixon saying people are lazy. with television, you just sit, watch, listen. the thinking is done for you. he had tremendous contempt for his audience. he kept it his whole life in the same way donald trump does and he had it in the one meeting you ever had with him. >> he did. he was like our viewers don't even want to know somebody like you exists. but he took a meeting with me and my bosses at salon because he was kind of curious. i mean he wanted to know that we existed and who we were. but it was just so amazingly cynical. it was shocking how just on top of the world he was and just convinced that we would never get through to his audience and he would never put us through to his audience. and i still feel to this day
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like i have no idea that we could have broken through. but it was just a warning. and i don't think i took it seriously enough at the time, chris, i really don't. it was -- it was icky when i think back on it, but it was really, really a warning. >> yeah. and i mean the control here is the only other thing that i'll say here is that there also -- they live in fear of losing their audience. that's the other thing. there's control and there's monopoly but because they don't have real competition like everyone else in the media does, eric, we saw it a little bit with oan and newsmax and all of the election trutherism, where they started to get beat a little bit. they will never let that happen. it doesn't matter how vile, how horrible, how wrong or flatly factually wrong it is, they will chase whatever it is that keeps them in possession of that audience. >> yeah.
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hannity's ratings right after the election were a disaster. hannity's ratings december and january, that audience was depressed preinsurrection and it looked like they were going to lose a big chunk of their audience. and as you said, i knew, i knew there was going to be -- 2021 was going to be a disaster for fox in terms of the vile programming, because it's exactly what you said. they had never really had anyone kind of snipping at the heels. and there is no way they were ever going to be outflanked on the far right in a meaningful way by anybody. you go back and you look at the fox coverage five, ten days after trump lost. there was kind of this, hey, let's move on. hey, what's going on. by late december, january, all in, stolen election, what is going on. democrats are stealing. they will never be outflanked and they don't care what it takes. and tucker carlson is proving that he doesn't care how many of his viewers die as he pumps out
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anti-vaccine, anti-science during a public health crisis. this public health crisis should have ended in july. i mean thousands, thousands of republicans have just killed themselves since the vaccine to own the libs, as they call it at fox news. it's just astonishing. >> joan, the other aspect of this, and this has been a through line, is they delight in punching down. they will pick some random freshman at some college who did something like burn the flag or bill o'reilly will bully the son of someone who lost their life in 9/11 or tucker carlson will pick out some reporter, one of my colleagues, for instance, and the audience when they put someone in their sights, it creates a security problem for that person. it is a cascade of abuse that is unlike anything else in media. >> it absolutely is. i went through it when bill o'reilly took off after me.
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i think it was, oh, my god, it's like 10, 11 years ago, but it was terrifying. and their people are just really sad people who just want to go after the people that they think are doing them wrong. and i -- i don't know that that's still happening, but i assume it is. and i do know that tucker carlson is sending his flying monkeys after a lot of people, whether it's about the great replacement theory or it's about not getting your vaccine, which he got, we all know he got it. but it is still scary. i would just -- i would like them to kind of shut it down. >> that's -- i think it would be really wonderful for the country and the world if that happened but i doubt it will.
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>> i'm a dreamer. i'm a dreamer. >> the deadline for the january 6 subpoenas has passed and steve bannon is trying to dodge the committee by hiding behind trump's executive privilege claim. a claim that was roundly rejected by the white house today. so what happens now? what are the consequences for defying a congressional subpoena? congressman joe neguse joins me on that, next. oins me on that, next. hey, guys! they have customized solutions to help our family's special needs... giving us confidence in our future... ...and in kevin's. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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to use executive privilege to withhold documents from the january 6 select committee. today the biden administration formally rejected that appeal, sending a letter to the national archives saying, quote, the constitutional protections of executive privilege should not be used to shield from congress or the public information that reflects a clear and apparent effort to subvert the constitution itself. this comes after trump encouraged four of his top aides to ignore the subpoenas recently issued by the committee. now, according to the committee, two of those aides, mark meadows and kash patel are engaing with the select committee. politico reports that deputy chief of staff for communications dan scavino was served with his subpoena today. while trump's former chief strategist, steve bannon has, quote, indicated he will try to hide behind vague references of privileges of the former president, according to the committee. but today the committee made clear there will be consequences for ignoring subpoenas.
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they write we will not allow any witness to defy a lawful subpoena or attempt to run out the clock and we will swiftly consider advancing a criminal contempt of congress referral. other democratic members of congress are proposing legislation to fine witnesses up to $100,000 for defying congressional subpoenas. one of the members sponsoring this legislation is congressman joe neguse, a democrat from colorado. he served as an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump and he joins me now. there's a lot to digest here because there's a bunch of moving pieces. let's start first with the white house's stepping in to say to the national archives, there's nothing here, go ahead. what does that mean? what's the legal impact and significance of that? >> well, good evening, chris, it's good to be with you. it's a big development. i think the white house made the right call and a prudent step forward to ultimately direct the national archives to disregard any spurious claim of executive
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privilege, which i think would have been intellectually dishonest under these circumstances given as the white house said what these documents purportedly may very well show, which is a subversion of the peaceful transfer of power and ultimately conduct that is clearly relevant to the events of january 6. so i think it's an important step forward and obviously a sea change from the spurious claims of executive privilege that we became so accustomed to under the trump administration from the white house. >> this may be an operational question you don't have the answer to but i'll ask anyway. it seems like they should just furnish it. if they want to litigate post facto, fine, but there should be no delay here. >> i certainly agree with you. with respect to the documents i don't think there's any question that would be the logical step forward. i suspect that the select committee is imploring the national archives to do precisely that. we'll see whether or not litigation gets in the way. >> that brings us now to these
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four people who are defying the subpoenas as of now. two of them engaged with the select committee. bannon and scavino thumbing their nose at it. bannon i think wrote a letter. you know, bannon is a particularly ridiculous case. he's not part of the executive, he was an unpaid advisor. he had received a pardon for a very serious charge of fraud that he was facing by the president. and the president is no longer the president. the guy that he was advising. there's like zero good faith executive privilege claim here. the question is do you let him try to run out the clock in court? >> the answer is no. i agree with you, chris. obviously it's absurd and ridiculous, the letter that mr. bannon's lawyer submitted to the select committee. it is consistent with the wholesale obstruction that we experienced and witnessed first happened during the trump administration. as you'll remember, i was a member and still am a member of the house judiciary committee and we saw the trump administration play this exact same playbook time and time again as they stonewalled
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congressional investigations. but what has changed, of course, and what is different now is that the department of justice is obviously -- you have an attorney general at the head of the department of justice who i think cares a great deal about co-equal branches of government, separation of powers an ebb suring the constitutional prerogatives of the congress are respected. at the end of the day if witnesses can defy subpoenas without consequence, then congressional oversight really no longer exists and it's hard to make the case congress is a co-equal branch of government in that circumstance. i take very seriously the select committee's language that was in the release today with respect to criminal contempt of congress, a referral to the department of justice. time will tell as to whether or not the department of justice under attorney general garland will ultimately implement that referral and pursue it. but i and many of my colleagues also believe we shouldn't wait for the department of justice and we should ensue the contempt powers of congress in the interim which is something the
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congress can and should do. >> what does that look like? >> so inherent contempt powers of the congress have always existed under your constitution. the powers have been largely dormant for the better part of the last 90 years. myself, ted lieu, val demings, a group of us on the house judiciary committee who again experienced the stonewalling of the trump administration first happened a year and a half ago proposed changing our rules to codify and authorize the use of inherent contempt. inherent contempt would function very similar to the way in which criminal contempt of congress functions if that referral is implemented. so a long-winded way of saying it would include fines, monetary penalties. in the past inherent contempt has been used by the congress in the senate and house with penalties of imprisonment as well. so congress is not powerless. it would not require the passage of the resolution in the senate and only require a majority vote in the house of representatives. so we think our resolution is a
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prudent step forward and will certainly be encouraging our colleagues to take it up. >> wait, that's key. you wouldn't need the senate. when i saw this earlier today, i thought obviously there's not going to be ten republican votes for this in the senate. your theory of the case here is this would be a simple majority vote of a resolution adopting rules codified in the branch of the house itself which derives the power from the u.s. constitution? >> that's precisely right. the implied powers under the constitution that give the house and the senate the ability to use its inherent contempt power to enforce duly authorized congressional subpoenas. really the resolution is codifying a set of procedures, right, that are required and that ultimately would survive constitutional scrutinies as the supreme court has opined on this in the past. look, the evisceration of congressional oversight really is nearing crisis levels. it has for quite some time. so implementing this resolution would put congress back on the path i think of repairing the
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damage that has been done over the last several years under the trump administration. i think it's a prudent step forward and i'm hopeful that my colleagues will agree. >> well, if it comes to that and you have to send the capitol police out to find steve bannon, i suggest you first search the nearest chinese billionaire's yacht you can get your hands on. congressman joe neguse, thank you very much. up next, the worst drama on capitol hill in which the junior senator from texas doesn't even know what he's even talking about. >> in the game of chicken, chuck schumer won this game of chicken. as two trucks drove toward each other on a country road, one or the other was going to turn or you were going to have a lot of dead chickens. o have a lot o f de chickens. ♪girl, i don't know, i don't know,♪ ♪i don't know why i can't get enough of your love babe♪ ♪oh no, babe girl, if i could only make you see♪
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surrendering and then, unfortunately, yesterday republicans blinked. i think that was a mistake. i think that was the wrong decision. in the game of chicken, chuck schumer won this game of chicken. as two trucks drove towards each other on a country road, one or the other was going to turn or you were going to have a lot of dead chickens. i wish republicans hadn't blinked. we shouldn't have done that. >> wait a second. wait a second. first of all, how many metaphors are we mixing in there? but second of all, more importantly, does ted cruz think the game of chicken is two trucks full of actual chickens driving towards each other? what movies has he been watching? now, he does happen to be right about one thing, minority leader mitch mcconnell absolutely
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blinked, swerved, got out of the way, flinched in negotiations about whether or not to raise the debt ceiling and enabled the u.s. to pay for things it already purchased. 11 republican senators joined with democrats to keep the u.s. from defaulting on its bills at least until december. joe biden pointed to that agreement as a sign that things are getting done. >> turn on the news and every conversation is a confrontation. every disagreement is a crisis. but when you take a step back and look at what's happening, we're actually making real progress. and thanks to bipartisan agreements, we're making progress on funding the government and raising the debt limit so people continue to get their social security checks, the military continues to get paid and so much more. >> biden also spoke with mitch mcconnell today. shortly after that mcconnell released a letter saying republicans would not support the debt limit when it comes up
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in december. he's going plow that chicken truck into the other truck. the biden agenda is a lot more about keeping the government open and funded. there's a long way to go to getting his signature bills passed. for more on the status of the president's build back better bill, i'm joined by jared bernstein, a member of the white house council of economic advisers. it's good to have you on, jared. let's start with today's jobs numbers which came in far below what i think consensus estimates were. unemployment sub 5%, which is uncouraging, but 200,000 jobs. i think there was an idea people would get vaccinated and everything would come roaring back. it looked like that for a bit and then we got delta. now where we are? >> that's a great question. we are making progress. we're making solid progress. you start out with the unemployment rate came down from 5.2 to 4.8%.
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that's a big drop in one month and that's the lowest it's been, first time below 5% since the pandemic hit. a couple of years ago the congressional budget office looked at the pandemic-induced recession and thought that we wouldn't get to unemployment this low until 2023. that was before this president passed the american rescue plan. and this links right up to your question, chris. what did the rescue plan do? it got shots in arms, also checks in pockets. and that meant people could go back to work, they could re-engage with commerce and that's why we've seen not only that drop in the unemployment rate but 4.8 million jobs, an historical record since this president took office. so solid progress in the labor market. it's going to come in bips and bops and ups and down and delta is still upon the land but that's why the vaccination agenda is so important. >> 1 to 10, 10 being very concerned, up with being not concerned at all, how concerned are you about inflation?
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>> well, i'm always concerned about anything that's above average when it's -- when we're talking about inflation. and so before the pandemic kicked in, we started having some of these supply chain transitory disruptions. inflation was running around 2% and it's been well north of that. the main -- the way i think about this in terms of concern, though, is what do we expect to happen once these supply constraints, once these bottlenecks unwind and we begin to see a smoother flow of goods, of chips, of the kinds of goods that are flowing through our ports but have seen, again, bottleneck conditions. we haven't forgotten how to make cars. we haven't forgotten how to produce and to import chips. in fact one of the investments that's so important to the biden administration is building a domestic capacity to beat some of those supply problems. it's going to take a while but
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that's a longer term solution. and the consensus among economists is in fact that these disruptions are transitory so every forecast is for inflation to start coming down in coming quarters. and that's the way i think about that scenario at this point. >> there was way big announcement today that piqued my curiosity. the oecd has been working on essentially a global minimum corporate tax. so the idea is there's a race to the bottom. there are all kinds of countries that have essentially kind of used very, very low tax rates to attract not just business but a lot of very shady, shady money hiding and laundering frankly. >> right. >> there's a deal now struck of a 15% global minimum. is this real is my question? is this going to be enforced? >> yes. great question. it is real. it is a big deal.
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one reason i think you can attest to its reality is 136 countries just joined hands representing 90% of global gdp to take the global minimum tax from zero to 15%. now, why would all those different countries, some of which by the way, have been pretty low tax havens themselves. why would they join hands and do this? precisely for the reason you gave. they're tired -- their middle class just like their middle class, their leaders just like joe biden are tired of seeing countries book their profits in low tax havens, book their deductible expenses in higher tax countries and come away with a level of profitability that robs their treasuries just like ours of $150 billion per year in revenue. so very real, very important. a big deal. this is what joe biden calls foreign policy for the middle class because it dampens the incentive to offshore jobs and
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production and brings revenues that should be in america back to our coffers. >> jared bernstein, come by any time for updates. good to talk to you. >> thank you, chris. all right. still ahead, from seattle to scottsdale, from boston to boise, rent is going through the roof. why prices are skyrocketing in america's cities, coming up. blp up. bl the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on home town fields. and the future she promises. when we made grand wagoneer, proudly assembled in america, we knew no object would ever rank with the best things in this country. but we believed we could make something worthy of their spirit.
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♪♪ >> i come back for guns and ships. >> the marquee de lafayette was originally played by devy diggs. but the real marquee de lafayette was a towering figure in american history and french history as represented by the fact that there's almost certainly something named after him where you live. there are dozens of american cities and towns named after lafayette, countless parks and streets and plazas. the park across the street from the white house is lafayette park named after him. if you understand why that's the case you can listen to the podcast with historian mike duncan. there's a great book out about it called "hero of two worlds." duncan is the host of the revolutions podcast.
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over the last year and a half throughout the pandemic it's been hard to get a lot of things. remember back in the beginning of the pandemic it was things like hand sanitizer, masks, toilet paper. remember the images, rows and rows of empty store shelves, while every online retailer was sold out too? then earlier this year the big problem was computer chips, we just referenced that. that slowed production of cars, causing prices of used cars to skyrocket. now the shortage everyone is talking about is in housing. this one has been a long time coming. according to the national associating of realtors, not exactly a disinterested party, but still, the u.s. has
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underbuilt its housing needs by at least 5.5 million units over the past five years, meaning we are 5.5 million houses short right now. this chart tracks the number of homes being built since the year 2000 and you see that sharp downturn, bottoming out after the previous housing bubble in 2008, and the slow increase in the years since, but never making it back up to where it was before. so we've been left with a big housing supply problem. now in cities big and small around the country, the housing market has gone completely and utterly bonkers. in new york city, the return of many people to the city since the pandemic has sent rents into the stratosphere, up by about 70% compared to a couple of months ago, according to a real estate broker, leading to some really, really nutty situations like a line of 80 people to view a nearly $300,000 a month two-bedroom unit in chelsea. in the suburbs of san francisco, up to 80% of homes are selling above list price, often after wild bidding wars like a recent
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sale that received 21 offers. in boise, idaho area, home prices are up nearly 40%, leaving out people like john evans, who was born and raised there but cannot afford the larger home his growing family is looking for. quote, i'm not in a position to make an all cash, no contingency offer nor am i willing to go $100,000 over asking, which is what we're up against. newbies are literally throwing money at everything, leaving guys like me in the dust. diana olick is cnbc's real estate correspondent. she's been covering this insane housing market and she joins me now. it's great to have you, diana. there's sort of i think some slightly different dynamics happening in the for sale and rental market. i want to focus first on the rental market. what is going on broadly in the rental market in the united states in cities particularly right now? >> well, thanks for having me, for one. but what's going on is something we've never seen in the rental market before, that's bidding wars.
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that's usually relegated to the home buying market. but you're actually hearing from rental agents that you're seeing lines of people out the door, they're coming in offering over asking price of rent, which is just not normal. and we're also seeing people coming in saying, i've got better credit scores or i can offer you more up-front plus a little bonus or something else, all things we used to see in the buying market, we're now seeing in the rental market because rents are soaring, way up. we saw 250,000 people more getting apartments just from july to september. that is the largest single quarter of occupancy in apartments since the early 1990s. so that gives you an idea just how crazy it is for rent. >> i'm glad you mentioned that before the over asking thing. i've now been hearing this from people. my first thought was like, is that a thing that happens, did i not know this was a thing that
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happens? if people are giving over asking on a house which is an investment, you could say, well, i think the value will ultimately exceed that even though it's over asking, i'll make it back. but in rent it's just like, that's just more money for the landlord. and this seems to be happening in a lot of places. >> yeah, i mean, as you say, when you rent, you're throwing the money out. you're getting what you're getting and you get nothing back. where we're really seeing it is in the single family rental market. when you go to see an apartment, that's the rent the rent is, you can't really offer over asking for that. single family rentals, though, are huge right now because people want to live in the suburbs, they want to get out of the cities during covid. single family rentals are just booming. those are owned by single landlords. some of them are large companies but most of them are mom and pop or small investors and they'll take whatever you're offering. >> so here's what i don't quite get. there is a structural problem here, which is that particularly
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in large and growing metro areas, there has been an undersupply of housing. particularly in cities, i know, you know, affordable rental units particularly, but generally, supply has not expanded as much as it should, that pushes up prices. that's a structural issue. but what has happened in the past few months no make this happen now? because it seems to acute, so specific, and so sharp. >> it's not really the past few months. we've been underbuilding, as you showed in your chart, for many years, because after the great housing crash, the subprime mortgage crisis when the builders just got slammed, they pulled back. they didn't want to build anything over than what they thought they could sell. they've been slowly, very slowly, climbing back. you ask the question, if there's so much demand and builders are getting such demand, why aren't they building as many houses as they possibly can? go back to supply issues, labor issues, land issues, material costs. they cannot build the types of
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houses that are in demand. that is that entry level, lower priced, first time home buyer house. they can't afford to build that. they're not going to profit off of it. they can only build the step-up level house or the luxury house. there's not quite as much demand for that but even when they want to build that, they're coming up against so many issues for land, labor, materials, and those higher costs, that they're actually, believe it or not, they are pulling back on selling, which sounds crazy in a market where you have so much demand. they are pulling back on how much they will sell right now because they are afraid they just can't deliver it. >> right. so you've got the actual supply chain issues that are affecting all the different parts of the economy, pertaining to the new housing market too, but it also seem like -- i guess i wonder -- i guess there's not much slack in these rental markets anyway when they're normally operating. and so fairly small changes around the margins, that was the thing we saw with toilet paper,
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right? it didn't take a ton of change in consumer behavior at the margin to create like fairly catastrophic consequences. and i imagine it's something similar with how the rental market usually functions and usually clears and what the normal band of essentially vacancy there is. >> well, you have to remember, a, a house is not as easy as a roll of toilet paper, right? but when you're talking about apartments, also remember, we've had an eviction moratorium going on for over a year now. that meant that people who could not pay the rent could not be evicted. it also meant that people for other reasons who couldn't pay the rent, maybe it wasn't covid, could not be evicted. you have this regular cycle of apartments, of people moving out, cycling through, and they just weren't moving at all. maybe it was the rent. maybe it was because they had nowhere else to go. also they couldn't move up to buy a house because housing got so expensive, they were just staying put. so that normal cycle that you're
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talking about of people coming in and people going out is just not happening the way it would in a regular year. >> so you've got sort of a backlog. i'll personally editorialize and say i'm glad people weren't evicted during a pandemic, but you have this backlog that ends up creating the situation now. it will be really interesting to see where this goes next. diana olick who has been covering this, thank you so much. >> thank you. that's "all in" for this week. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, have a fantastic weekend, my friend, thank you. >> you too. thanks for joining us this hour. happy friday. very happy to have you here. this is one of those friday nights when the news gods are saying, neenor, neenor, we don't believe in weekends. the fifth circuit u.s. court of appeals sits in louisiana,

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