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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 6, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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history yale university, -- 20 lessons from the 20th century, which i cannot recommend highly, enough including the new graphic addition, of until, many is now in bookstores. i read it and absorbed all the illustrations and all of it in one sitting. and, you will too if you buy, it's remarkable stuff. >> think you. >> that will do it for us for now, see you again tomorrow, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell, good evening lawrence. >> good evening rachel, we have the decision, this order by the judge in texas federal judge in texas, that i think many people anticipated, that there would be a federal judge somewhere in texas, you would see it this way. just completely shutting down, that texas law, ordering absolutely no administration of that new texas abortion law at all. none of these lawsuits specifically setting in order to every state court, every judge, every clerk, of every
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court. do not accept filing of any of these lawsuits. against abortion providers. and absolutely shut it down. >> shut it down. we've just learned in the past couple of minutes that texas is appealing, and again, but legal undergirding of the texas abortion ban is so weird, and so specifically designed to evade federal constitutional scrutiny, that i think it's very hard to predict what's going to happen here. between here in the circle and the supreme court, but this judge's ruling tonight is definitive, and it's kind of lit. the judge is clearly kind of had. >> yes and he spends a great deal of time on that under girding that you're talking about. it's 113 pages, he has dozens of pages that i have skimmed that are specifically about that. about the design of the law, how the law was specifically designed to try to avoid, judicial review, and then specifically why the federal, government dusts department that intervened, here does have the standing to do that.
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i learned some things about federal government standing in this case, by reading this judgment tonight. it's really such an important turn, we have we have daniel -- social richards. we are going to get some expert legal analysis, of where the stands tonight. >> right on, can't wait. thanks lawrence. >> thank you rachel. >> page one, of his 113 page opinion, in order tonight, texas federal judge robert pittman. says, a person's right under the constitution to choose to obtain an abortion prior to fetal viability is well established. fully aware, that poor private citizens of this right, by direct state, action would be flagrantly unconstitutional, the state contrived an unprecedented and transparent statutory scheme to do just that. , a judge pittman issued an injunction, barring the
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enforcements of the new texas law, saying, it is ordered that the state of texas, including its officers, officials, agents, employees and any other persons or entities acting on its behalf, our preliminarily, in joins from enforcing texas health and safety code, including accepting or docket-ing maintaining, hearing, resolving awarding damages, in enforcing judgments, in enforcing any administrative penalties in, and administrating any lawsuit brought pursuant to the texas health and safety code. it is ordered, that the state of texas most published this preliminary injunction and all of its public facing court websites with a visible, easy to understand instruction to the public that s.b. 8 lawsuits, will not be accepted by texas courts. it is further ordered that the state of texas shell inform all state court judges and state
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court clerks, of this preliminary injunction and distribute this preliminary injunction to all state court judges and all state court clerks. leading off our discussion in this breaking news tonight, arson seal, the former president of planned parenthood federation of america, she's current co-chair of american bridge 24 century. also delia, senior editor of legal correspondent for slate .com and host of the podcast -- and neil, a former acting u.s. attorney general. and an msnbc legal contributor. and tell you i want to go to your first, with what you think the supreme courts action might be. they took a different view, about a possible injunction here. >> i never want to predict, what's the supreme court is going to do. i want to say that this is an extraordinary piece of judicial
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writing, fact, finding this is in contrast, to a paragraph, a page and a half on the shadow docket, that took no notice of any of the suffering, of the people in texas. this is a point by point by point, including in the footnotes, which are amazing, reputation of the carelessness of the supreme court. i feel like if the supreme court wanted to get out under the complete self known, how much they embarrassed themselves, on september, first this is a vehicle to say you know what, judge pittman did better. and we will just stand down. whether they will do that or not i don't know. >> that would be fun to read, neil, you have experience with the supreme court and the appellate level, all the way through the court system. what happens next in this case? and what is your reaction to this order tonight? >> first the reaction to the
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order, this lawrence is with the rule of law is all about. 113 pages, all about basically how this was a scheme, and that's a word that chief justice roberts used, and judge pittman picked up on. to have a judicial review, and tear women's rights down. and, it was a really powerful language. here's what's going to happen. first it's going to go to the court of appeals, for the fifth circuit, that's very concerning conservative court, but honestly in the fifth circuit, this case just requires one to be able to read, a lower court cannot overrule roe v. wade. it's a lot of the land. only the supreme court can do it. so the only way they can reverse judge pittman's decision, is by saying what you are saying a moment ago, lawrence is that they can say that the justice department cannot come in and vindicate women's rights. what that would mean is, first women cannot vindicate the rights, that's what dolly is referring to on september 1st, the supreme court, order and then the court of appeals would
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have to say the same thing, for the justice department. basically no one can vindicate rights and that's a good argument if you're in the soviet union. not a particularly compelling argument in the united states. and as a litigator, we always want to signal confidence in your arguments, here we are beginning with the texas law, written by people who were afraid of. they were afraid to even have the challenge, so this entire scheme is all about that. i'm very optimistic that this goes to the fifth, circuit and then the supreme court will have to set it for a full arguments. they cannot just do this on a shadow docket. and try to decide the case that way. >> so, on this issue of standing, i learn something on page 25 of the judges order. where he talks about standing, he talks about the federal government standing, in bringing this lawsuit, justice department bringing this lawsuit. and the judge says, by imposing damages, liability of $10,000 or more, on any person
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performing inducing, aiding or abetting in abortion, as be eight exposes the federal government, its employees, and it's contractors, to monetary injury that goes on to give several examples. for example. the federal bureau of regulations provide that the bureau prisons clinical director, quote, shell arrange, for an abortion to take place, when a pregnant inmate requests and elective abortion. and seal, the judge goes on to list other examples, of where federal government employees, would be subject to being sued in texas, under this law. it's filled with for me, with little factual surprises like, that and how they work in the legal structure of this opinion. but what does this mean do you think tomorrow?
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in texas, for abortion services? >> it's a very good question lawrence. one i agree with, both my colleagues here. this is been an extraordinary opinion, and i'm in houston right now, i will tell you that it is being met with enormous excitement, and gratitude. that there's finally some sign of relief here, for the women of texas. i think the problem of, course is, this is going to be a long journey here. it's an important temporary victory, but i think there's a long road ahead to restoring full abortion access, for people in the states, and having talked too many doctors, over the last few days. as i've been here. the stories are heartbreaking. and i think that is the other thing that's going to compliment these important legal opinion, is the actual stories of people in this state, women in this state, mothers
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who no longer can make their own decisions about their pregnancy. in those stories i think are going to be part of, what i hope, goes to the supreme court. that really demonstrates enormous cruelty of this legislation. and the pain and suffering that is occurring in the state of texas right now. it's, it's incredible to me that women tonight, in the state. are having to wonder tomorrow, what will happen. women who have been trying to get a legal abortion in the state, and i know that all of our -- are all reviewing what's happened tonight, and they're hoping they can make decisions and care for their folks tomorrow. >> delia one thing i'm struck by in this judge's opinion, and order, is how much he takes in here. he weaves no stone unturned in what has been the public discussion of this. and he makes the parts of the public discussion of it, absolutely relevant to what is
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here. the legal discussion of it. >> it's so astonishing, lawrence because every single footnote, almost represents a split screen, in which he says, this is what's really happening, on the ground, right now, in texas. in the footnotes tell the whole story, in my view. -- i think we have a problem with delhi's connection. they're neil one thing i'm wondering here, is this is a temporary injunction, against any enforcement of this law, in texas courts. if abortion services are provided, say starting this week, starting under this injunction, will, and let's say goes the other way, let's say the federal core system in the supreme court ultimately say that the sex texas law is okay,
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will the abortion services provided, while this injunction is in place, then become subject, to possible litigation after this injunction might be lifted? >> it's a really important question lauren. so first of all an injunction for our viewers, means that federal judge has said, this law cannot be enforced now. and it will go on reviewed to the court of appeals in the supreme court. if the supreme court disagrees with this judge, it says, we are going to reinforce the law. the law can go back into effect, the evil-ness of this law, has a provision in it which says, if you helped with an abortion, while the law was under an injunction, you can now retro actively be sued. so when you ask why as lucy or richard such a hero in fighting this way? it's not just because of what's she's doing in the courts and what other women are doing, and all sorts of people, it's also
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because we need legislation right now, congress has a bill pending, which says supreme court, we don't need you to protect our abortion. rights will do so by the majority rule. get rid of this kind of dangerous retro active thing, about the injunction. because i think judge pittman, even if his decision stands, for the next until the supreme court reviews, it it creates a chilling effect on abortions, because of this retroactive liability provision. >> dahlia, i hope your connection is working now, i just wanted to give you a chance to finish, sheer and give your point here about the scope of this judges view, of this issue, the legal and the practical as is being a lived experience in texas. >> yes. simply lawrence, he is so profoundly aware, of the facts on the grounds. and every footnote is about a fact on the ground, that the, court the supreme court in lighted.
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and chose to dismiss this on the back of an envoy lope, on september 1st. it's such a deep, deep recognition of what is really happening, the pain it has been caused. and i simply think it is a way of saying to the courts, not just was this law constructed to evade, judicial review, as neil said, but it was also constructed to harm women, and there's no other way to read it, it's a very very compelling opinion. >> seal, there's no rhetoric in this judges order or opinion. this is a fact based opinion, it is looking at the reality of what the legislature did. he's looking at the reality of abortion services as they are provided, or as they are denied in texas. >> right. i think that is so important with dolly is said. it's absolutely right. you can get caught up in the legal ease of this, the fact is
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millions of millions of people, in texas lost their rights overnight. it's affecting them, their families, and to what neil said, ultimately, whatever, regardless of whatever success we have in litigation, this is a political fight. this bill was not passed, by enacted of the people of texas rose up and wanted to make abortion illegal. this is because greg abbott, a republican governor, and a rugged blinken right legislature put their own political agenda held of the health and well-being in the women of state of texas. ultimately we have to pass federal legislation, and i would know that the women's health protection act, that did pass the house, was supported, essentially in shrine the ability of people to make their own decisions about pregnancy. and not a single republican member of congress voted for. this is a political battle. and the republican party is clearly on the side of taking
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away the most fundamental right, that women in this country have, and we have to make that clear to voters everywhere. >> cecile richards, dahlia lithwick, neil, thank you all very much for joining us on this breaking news. you are not scheduled to this when your evenings began, but thank you very much for joining us on this hour. we really appreciate it. >> thanks lawrence. >> thank you. >> and coming up, we are going to have more on the reaction to this decision, by a federal judge in texas. to block the new texas abortion law. also, mitch mcconnell, blinks today. in the standoff with chuck schumer, over the debt ceiling. that come that is coming up. debt ceiling that come that is coming up. that come that is coming up. ♪ ♪ you already pay for car insurance, ♪
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news coverage of this federal judge intervening in the new texas abortion law, in texas the state of texas, has now, filed an appeal, to the judges order, the judges order, judge robert pittman, has ordered an injunction, that prevents that new texas abortion law from being enforced, in the state of texas. in his 113 page opinion and order, release tonight, judge robert pittman says, from the moment s.b. 8 when into effect, women have been unlawfully
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prevented from exercising control over their lives, in ways that are protected by the constitution. that other courts, may find a way to avoid this conclusion, is there's to decide, this court, will not sanction, one more day. of this offensive, deprivation of such an important right. leading off our discussion tonight in this segment's democratic senator chris van hollen of maryland he's. a member of the senate appropriations committee, and budget committee. senator, i want to get your reaction to this ruling by judge pittman. judge pittman is a president obama appointee to the federal core. a district judge in texas, saying that this law in texas denies women and establish constitutional right. >> hi lawrence, good to be with you. this texas law, is bly in the unconstitutional. it clearly violates roe v. wade,
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and that's what judge pittman found. he laid it all out there in the over hundred-page argument. a very airtight argument. i do agree with some of the comments on the previous panel, which the best way to deal with this once and for all, and prevent state legislatures in texas, from taking away women's right to choose, is to pass a federal law, the house is done, that the senate should follow soon. >> of course, senator, in the senate, such a law would come up against the 60 vote flush old, which has the senate tied up in knots, once again. as it kind of always does. this time over the debt ceiling. and it seems that mitch mcconnell, blinks today, in his stand off with democrats, where he had been saying that republicans were going to absolutely block, any attempt by the democrats, to expand the debt ceiling, to cover the deaths, that were incurred
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during the trump presidency. what is your assessment of where that situation stands tonight? >> well, the good news lawrence, is as you say, he blinked for now. and that's really important, because what we want to focus on during this, is passing the build back better agenda. we want to pass those important provisions, to provide families with kids, with those tax cuts, we want to reduce the cost of prescription drugs. we want to deal with the climate change to put people to work, generating clean energy. and that's really hard to do when you have a crisis hanging over you. we bought a little time. into early december. but if mcconnell really wanted to do the right thing for our country, he would have let us do this on a two-year basis. not with the economy on a month to month, morning of another debt crisis. in december, as you know, will
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also confront another government shutdown. from mitch mcconnell. so again, it's definitely good news in the short term, but in my view of, the better way lawrence, to your earlier point, which just be ripped the band-aid off, get the 51 votes to waive the filibuster, which is the rule that he's using to obstruct this, and where is holding the country hostage, that would be best for this in for other things. >> mcconnell made that move today, basically saying, let's just extend this for a few months. after, president biden had a session with treasury secretary and some prominent wall street tides, including the head of citibank, who were all saying, basically, what mcconnell is doing, without seeing his name, is disastrous for the economy, and predicting worldwide recession if mcconnell was to
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continue to hold his position, and so, mcconnell at some point, it seems to me decided that, the line that you are all using, which is just have the republicans get out of the, way get out of the, way let the democrats do the job. it seems that mcconnell believed that that line, that you are all using against him, was really working. >> i think that's right. we were making the point that republicans really should help the democrats raise the debt ceiling. and pay for the bills that republicans themselves voted for, things like, expanding high speed internet, but for goodness sakes, if you're not going to do the right thing to protect the economy, at least get out of the way so democrats can do it. and protect american families. i think you're right, lawrence that that ultimately carried the, day along with a concerted effort to make mcconnell
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understand, that we are pushing all of our colleagues, to waive the filibuster. for this purpose. so we will revisit this entire conversation, in december, but as you say, we bought some, time let's focus on delivering the bill back agenda. >> senator chris van hollen, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate. it >> good to be with you. thanks >> joining our discussion, now congressional historian norm loyal steam, he's a scholar at the american enterprise institute, and -- zerlina, that airs on peacock. zerlina, this hundred and 13-page order by the judge tonight, really covers every single thing. about the texas law, that we have been hearing about since it was first passed. yes lawrence. i think that's a very important thing, because i think as we go along in this process. every single piece of this needs to be documented. and so i love that dolly it was
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citing the footnotes, because i think the lived experiences of women in states like texas, but not only texas, those states that have these restrictions, on abortion access, i think you need to understand what that lived experience is like, to understand the impact of this policy, and essentially, if you think about the totality of texas, i was talking to fred guttenberg earlier today on my show. about the shooting that happened in arlington texas, at a high school, and if you think about the texas legislature, they're passing extremist laws on abortion, and guns, and on voting, and many of the issues, on which a majority are on the opposite side of the fence. and so i think we need to pay attention to what the folks are doing in texas. and we will see, what's the fifth circuit does, with this decision. but it's important for the historical record. >> norm, one of the things that
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strikes me, as a speed read through the hundred and 13 pages, is that the judge is repeatedly showing, that this law, as written, by the texas legislature, was really kind of a game for them. they were playing a game, about how to create chaos, in this area, that is a constitutional right. and there is a kind of theme to republican approach to government in that, where mitch mcconnell is constantly playing games, in the united states senate. with elementary things lake, the credit rating of the united states. the full faith and credit of the united states, everything is an opportunity for playing games by these people. >> and let's face it. a judgment that mcconnell made, we can reject immediately the idea that he did this because it was the right thing for the country. i believe the fundamental reason he did, it is because he knew that we are going to head
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right to the 11th, our and democrats with unlikely to do an exception on the filibuster rule, that would put it on a slippery slope for many more things to come. and he wanted to head that off. frankly lawrence, i am hoping that the democrats in the senate, will use this as an opportunity, not just to do another debt ceiling hunt in december. or come to another confrontation, but actually do what they said they don't want to do, which is use reconciliation and take care of this debt ceiling charade. that is been used as a hostage, as a blackmail opportunity by mitch mcconnell. over and over again over the last decade plus. once and for all, there are ways to do that that will pass parliamentary muster. we cannot ignore the reality, that making good public policy for the good of the country, is now something that is only in the purview of one party. and the other is a call, that is just looking for ways to
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assume power. or to advance completely radical and by whatever means they can use. >> norm orange teens, alina maxwell, thank you both for joining our discussion tonight. >> thanks lawrence. >> thank you. coming up. three states, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, have governors races next year. if a republican winds, in all of those states, or any of those states, that could be the beginning of the plot to reverse the outcome of the next presidential election. that's next. esidential election. that's next. that's next. asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids.
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next year. in pennsylvania the democratic governor is term limited if those states elect the democratic governors next year, those governors might be able to reverse the outcome of the presidential election in their states, and give the presidency to the republican candidate. the new york times reports today republican countenance for governor in the three states have proposed additional cutbacks to voting access and measures that would give gop officials more power over how elections are run. it is no longer a stretch to imagine governors loyal to the former president taking previously unthinkable steps to alter future results. what would joining us now, michigan lieutenant governor garlin gilchrist and wisconsin lieutenant governor mandela barnes he is running for the united states senate. lieutenant governor garlin gilchrist what is the situation that would be most dangerous
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with republican governors of the states? >> what's dangerous is what republicans in michigan are trying to do to voting rights, we have seen them introduced 39 voter suppression bills and dozens more in the michigan house that -- you couple that, the ballot initiative drive that will begin gathering signatures soon that seems to undermine the will of the voters of michigan from 2018 to make voting more accessible. what we're seeing is that republicans want people to make it more difficult for people to vote in michigan. if that happens, it's in direct response to the record voter turnout that we saw on the 2020 election the most secure and successful election that we've ever had in michigan. republicans did not like there was also they want to make it harder to vote as a result of that. that is very dangerous. >> lieutenant governor mandela barnes once an area is that with former republican control of state government, they could
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basically give the governor the power to reject the electors who the electors for the winning candidate in that state. and then sent to congress, sent to the electoral college a different set of electors who would vote in a different way. >> of course we should expect them to try it, they have been shameless in their approach. they lost the election, and they tried to the steal the election. they had sham audits that have taken place. we have an investigator at the legislators using taxpayer money to hire. mind you a bipartisan investigator that is simply there to promote big lie, continue this dangerous conspiracy theory that is already seen people put in harm's way and in addition to people being put in harm's way it's also counter to democracy. this thing is very fragile
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right now if republicans lose control, they will lose stop at nothing to maintain power. we see what happens when they don't get the election result that they want. we can't go into another election here, it's more than just 2022, it's about 2024, the next presidential election, the election after that. they haven't kept up with the mainstream, they have lost touch with the american people, and if maybe they decided to listen to folks across the state of wisconsin, across the state of michigan, across the state of pennsylvania, and respond to needs in terms of health care, the economy back on track, responding to the pandemic, maybe they could win the election. >> of course these games are all possible because of the absurdity of the electoral college, this ridiculous artifact of the founders that no other country, no weather democracy in the world has decided it is a good idea. i want to go back to the new
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york times reporting on this, consider this, governors are required to submit to congress a certificate of ascertainment of presidential electors. but what if a governor refused? another scenario could also give a governor outsized power over the presidential election, a state could stand competing states of electors to congress, and the house might except one sleigh and the senate in the. other than, the electoral count act of 1887 appears to give the state's governor the tie breaking vote. lieutenant governor garlin gilchrist, these scenarios become, no one dreamed of before the era of donald trump. we are now just a constant nightmare. >> these republicans dreams are a nightmare for democracy in michigan, and america. we have to fight against. them i presided over our electoral college session in
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2020 to certify the results of the 2020 election that was secure, they had record voter turnout, and we want as democrats, more people to vote and participate in the democratic process. that is good for democracy. good for michigan. good for decision-making and policy. that is what we want, we are not afraid of the process. democrats are trying to expand voting, not scheme and suppress it. that's the only idea the republicans have, is to make it harder for people to vote. so fewer people can participate so they can sneak in these kinds of reforms anyway that can let their imagination run wild and take rights away from people. it's un-american, it's undemocratic, and it's unacceptable. >> lieutenant governor mandela barnes, i think we used to think that turnout was the cure for everything. that if you could get a massive voter turnout on your side, than any irregularities that you my bumped into my disappear, but these people seem determined to be willing to ignore whatever the vote
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counting is, no matter what kind of winning margin you might deliver, these people, and certainly donald trump, would be happy to use the legal means to reverse that outcome. >> not only just the use illegal means, but assume, or pretend that a legal means we're used to get this -- why happened was that they had a very unpopular president. one who was not fit to serve in office in the first place. the american people respond in. as governor, garlin gilchrist, mentioned we want people to show up. we want people to have access to the ballot. they have tried here -- to veto him. that's why it's critically important to reelect tony eagerly. we shouldn't have to go out of our way to over prove ourselves to show that democracy works, if we win an election we win an election, that's the way it goes. of course we won as many people to come out as possible. we feel as if folks are going to show up in historic numbers
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in this midterm as well, it's one of the reasons why i have decided to run because this election was too important to set out. we have a senator, ron johnson, who has shown very little regard for democracy. very little regard for the process, and continues to make things harder, make things worse than pretend as if this election is not safe and secure. the only response to these attempted attacks on democracy, means more people showing up, more people have access to the ballot, that's what we're committed to. it's not just giving democrats the right to vote, it's about making sure that everybody, every eligible voter has easy access to the ballot. >> michigan lieutenant governor garlin gilchrist and governor mandela barnes thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up the special committee, house committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capital is already hearing from witnesses from the trump administration who don't have to be subpoenaed,
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because they actually want to tell the truth about what they witnessed. our next guest fiona hill has already told the truth about what she witnessed in the white house and her testimony in the first impeachment investigation of donald trump. fiona hill joins us next. us next so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze drifting on by you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ it's a new dawn... ♪ if you've been taking copd sitting down, it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler,
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side effects include pain, redness, and/or swelling where you got the shot, muscle ache, headache, and general discomfort. other side effects may occur. all flu shots are not the same. i raised my game with fluzone high-dose quadrivalent. ask your doctor or pharmacist for fluzone high-dose quadrivalent. a special house committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capital is already hearing from valuable witnesses who do not have to be subpoenaed, because they are cooperating. they actually want to tell the truth. political reports that one of them is richard donahue, who was the second in command at the justice department and trump's finals days. richard donahue was with the phone calls with the president, and he was taking notes when donald trump said things to the attorney general like. just say that the election was corrupt, and leave the rest to
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me. which are donahue and the acting -- were active resist airs against donald trump's attempts to overturn the presidential election. donald trump had no way to get around that resistance within his own administration. and the office to the secretary state of georgia for example. because donald trump does not really know how to do anything. he knows nothing about government, or how to make things happen in government. we have a new perspective on donald trump's ineptitude, in fiona hill fiona hill's new book. she left bishop auckland in to pursue her studies which led to -- national television officer with expertise on russia and the administrations of presidential which w. bush and president barack obama. she continued her service in that position during the trump presidency, and eventually
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found herself testifying about and against the presidents in the first impeachment of donald trump. in her new book entitled there is nothing for you here, fiona hill writes that first i found president trump's fragility perplexing. given his highly privileged upbringing, he seemed to have had unbridled access to opportunity. i often question why he was so perpetually aggrieved when everything had so obviously been handed to him since birth. and i wondered how he could cope if someone dropped him alone on a random street in a faraway town like bishop auckland or on the keenan family farm in south dakota to fend for himself. i concluded, not well at. all trump needed to have everything done for him. at times he seemed hopeless when little things went wrong. we and luckily, he was helpless one big things went wrong. like losing his reelection
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campaign. joining us now is fiona hill former national security council official, she is a senior fellow at the broken -- and her new book is titled there is nothing for you here. thank you very much for joining us tonight. i was fascinated by your perspective on this helpless figure of donald trump in the white house. not knowing how to get anything done, not being able to do anything himself. >> yeah well thanks for having me, lawrence, yes i mean i suppose it's probably a little bit perplexing for readers and viewers when they think about this as well, trump projects himself as a strongman, it is a very capable person, he said many things about himself. but when it actually came to governance, he had no experience at all and how to run something with the complexity of the united states. when he tried to do instead of
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learning about it and perhaps deferring to others, or asking for advice, was trying to run the country like he ran his own personal family business. >> you write, for me watching trump's disorganized but deadly serious attempt to a coup unfold over the course of 2020, the clearest most understandable parallels were with russia. when did it start to look like russia to you? >> we well, actually from pretty early on in my time as the security council i just want to say, because i was listening very intently to the previous segment with the lieutenant governor, the discussion that they were having with you, it was more reminiscent of the kinds of conversations we would've had about someone like russia. the united states is started to converge in a rather terrifying level with the russia of the president.
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you know this whole half democracy, the strongman rulers wants the same power, the lies, conspiracy theories that are spread around, the effort to basically put the population on track of having no choice about who governs them in the future. we are at a crossroads right now in the united states where everything that we have taken for granted, is up for question. you know again, this is something that i think is astounding from most ups external observers, not just people like myself who came in the united states back in 1989 amid lives ourselves here. i never expected this turn of events. >> you also write trump seemed to look up to putin because of his wealth, and he admired the way putin around the russia like his own private company. people like putin who were simultaneously -- superrich, where an elite of their own. this was the group trump wanted
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to see himself in, internationally very rich, very powerful, and very famous. can you hear me? can you hear me now, fiona hill? have we lost the connection completely? i'm not sure if fiona hill can hear me. apparently she can't. i hope we can get her back, because her insights into donald trump in this book, as a person, who are not being heavily emphasized in her public discussions of the book. it's much more about the policy aspects of what she was dealing with. but her perspective on the trump i think is utterly fascinating, and adds more to our understanding of donald trump the person. and i'm wondering that description you gave about the way he saw putin, and he wanted to see himself in the same way lee with putin. how much does that explain his public affection for putin?
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>> it explains a lot. i mean look, vladimir putin was a trail blazer. he's the first populist leader, of a major country in the 21st century. you know a lot of people have thought of him as a throwback to the 19th century, but putin was ahead of the curve. people like trump, there are many other political leaders around europe and elsewhere in the world have looked at vladimir putin, to set the tone. he has his first early slogans were about making russia great again, i will fix everything, he has short-circuited the marker democracy, he has no political party around him, he appeals directly to the public, he has a similar base of voters, frankly, to president champ. millions of people who got fed up with the political system, or feel they have some socioeconomic reasons they feel like they are being cut out of their country that is sort of changing around them, the
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stimuli arenas are unfortunately striking. the one big difference though, is that president putin really tries to unify his country. he doesn't actually play such divisive manner that we have seen presidential doing. >> there is the title of your book is quite moving, once you understand when asked about, the title is there is nothing for you here, it sounds like something donald trump might say to you in the oval office. what you've lost our audio again? i guess we have lost fiona hill. there is nothing for you here is not something that donald trump said to fiona hill in the oval office. it's what her father said to her, growing up in that small town in england, that she would have to get out issue is going to be able to build a life for herself. and she did that. fiona hill's new book is there is nothing for you here, and thanks to fiona hill for joining us tonight. we will be right back. we will be right back. everything.
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garland has just issued a written statement, about the ruling in texas saying, today's ruling and joining the texas law, is a victory for women in texas, and for the rule of law. it is the foremost responsibility for the department of justice, to defend the constitution. we will continue to protect constitutional rights for, all who would seek to undermine them. attorney general merrick garland gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. >> good evening once again, day 260 of the biden administration, as you have been following the breaking news tonight, is out of texas. where a federal judge has temporarily blocked and almost total ban on abortions in the state of texas. tonight's decision, follows a challenge, brought by the biden administration, filed after the supreme court rather quietly allowed the texas law to go

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