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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  October 1, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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sculptures is, they stand as an honor to their memory and a reminder of great injustice and that is tonight's "reid out," check out the take on the rising power of the congressional black caucus, "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight, on "all in," a radical supreme court wants everyone to stop complaining. >> tonight, justice olito's hurt feelings. and then. >> it doesn't matter when. it doesn't matter if it's in six minutes, six days or six weeks, we are going get it done. >> what we know about where the biden agenda stands after the
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president visits the capitol, plus, the legendary brian stephen son about the culture war on education on racism and why joe biden should take a page from the trump playbook as ford makes an announcement on electric car. >> i think we can say, it's the eighth wonder of the world. this is eighth wonder of the world. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today we learned that supreme court justice brett cavanaugh has tested positive for covid. now the good news is he is fully vaccinated. thankfully. according to a statement from the court, he has no symptoms, and he was tested as part of the routine screening yesterday. i have to say, every time i hear about a break-through case like this, someone vaccinated. of course, i feel sorry for the person who is sick. but relief that they are vaccinated. just two days ago cavanaugh participated in a 3 mile charity
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road race, here he is crossing the finish line. it's annual event kind of full of d.c. insiders from members of the media to members of congress and the supreme court and you can see his washington nationals hat there. he is a big nationals fan. of course, brett cavanaugh has been a d.c. insider literally his entire life. his father ed cavanaugh spent two decades in washington as a top lobbiest for the cosmetics industry. he was a golf partner of tip o'neal, the long-time democratic house speaker. the younger cavanaugh attended elite catholic schools and was two years ahead of neil gorsich, what are the odds on the supreme court. cavanaugh is a guy who is a creature of well, the swamp, for lack of a better word who then went to have a career in republican politics. you see, brett cavanaugh, like all members on of the supreme court are just human beings with personal politics, and life
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experiences, and biases and ideologies. like you and me. we all know that but for some reason they are intent on trying to gaslight us in to thinking they are not. recently members of the court have been going on the offensive, trying to convince america that they are these ethereal beings that are above the petty politics that dominate the rest of life and they have been claiming it's an insult to suggest that they could have political commitments that affect them in any way whatsoever. to suggest they are mere mortals whose judgments are filtered through ideologies like everyone. the charm offensive, it's more of a whining offensive is not working. new polling shows approval of the supreme court is down to 40%. that is the lowest it's been in gallup's tracking and keep in mind, they started polling after
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bush-v-gore. this court, is the product of the unprecedented historically unprecedented, total obstruction of president obama merrick garland and the rushing through of amy coney barrett before ruth bader ginsburg's body was in the ground. it's a trump/mcconnell court, it's a historical fact about the court's make up. on top of that, there's the fact that the court is very obviously hostile to the reproductive rights enshrined in roe v. wade and later in casey. this up coming term, they will be hearing arguments from a case from mississippi that could overturn roe and keep in mind, it's a case they had no reason to case other than the opportunity to gut or overrule roe. so we know what they are doing.
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of course, just last month, the court 5 of the 4 justices, all a conservatives failed to enjoin a blatantly unconstitutional law in texas that pro hibtss all -- that prohibits all abortions. there's women who are pregnant in texas, right now, who cannot secure their constitutional rights. so, yes, when you look at that i think it's not surprising that people are not super psyched about the court. but here's the thing. people's criticisms of the court are landing. and on so the justices are getting defensive. yesterday it was the right wing justice, sam yell alito, who is suffering from an acute case of fox news brain. he lashed out at the critics of the court, particularly critics
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of the shadow docket, that's the process by which the supreme court decides emergency cases without revealing the reasoning. they don't issue big, um, big decisions. right? now the shadow docket has always existed. the thing is, this court has massively expanded it and also used it in obviously ideological ways. because they used it to inconsistentlier for cases with huge stakes. like last month when access to abortion in texas was cut off and five justices shrugged and said is, nothing we can do. we can all see what they are doing. justice alito however, said it's not happening. >> the catchy and sinister term "shadow docket" has been used to portray the court as having been captured by a dangerous kabal that resorts to sneaky actions to get its ways and it feeds unprecedented efforts to intimidate the court or damage
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it as an independent institution. >> now, to me this is an encouraging development. fun trivia fact, shadow docket, coined by a former clerk of john rodgers, not a crazy liberal. and intimidate the court is a choice of words, because it's just criticism. the level will of defensiveness here shows the criticisms of the court are getting to them. they hear it. they know that the public perception of them is bad. and that's a good thing. because guess what justices alito, we live in a liberal democracy and the court is part of the institutions of liberal democracy, apparently people like sam alito want lifetime tenure on the court with zero accountability short of impeachment which has not happened in more than 200 years and along with it, the power and lived time tenure, they don't want to be criticized. tough, buddy, that's not the way it works in the country. in a liberal democracy and free
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society. i'm sorry, but you are going to get criticized and you deserve it. justice alito is not the only one with very, very thin skin. a few weeks ago, justice amy coney barrett gave a speech that was in some ways worse than alito, alito had let his talk be promoted and recorded. coney barrett did not inform the press ahead of her appearance and did not allow any video or audio recording. there's a couple of reporters present. so we know some of what she said like quote, my goal today is to convince you, the court is not comprised of a bunch of partisan hacks, judicial philosophies are not the same as political parties and the media along with hot takes on twitter report the results of decisions, it leaves the reader to judge whether the court was right or wrong based whether she liked the results of the decision. there she is, amy coney barrett, having walled herself off from criticism and claiming misinterpretation and attacking
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the press while not allowing them to record the speech. and she stood there claiming the justices are not partisan hacks when she herself is on on the court because mitch mcconnell shoved through her confirmation in near record speed in the last weeks of an election, having blocked a nomination election year when a democrat was around. now that is after he claimed, you know, he could not confirm a new supreme court justice in an election year. and you could say, in defense of amy coney barrett, she can't control who nominates and confirms her. that is true. she can control where she appears and with whom she does. take a close look at the photo here. who's that guy in the glasses? oh, my word, that is mitch mcconnell himself sitting on the stage, approvingly looking on at amy coney barrett, his crown jewel, the woman he got confirmed. next to her on stage as she says she is not a partisan hack at
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the 30th anniversary of the opening of the mitch mcconnell center at the university of louisville. this is not even gaslighting. it is either genuine delusion or a taunt. and it's not just the right wing members of the court. i have to say, justice stephen briar on a strange book tour and/a maybe farewell tour has been on the defensive of accusations of partisanship. in a interview after the amy coney barrett speech in louisville. he agreed with his colleague. >> i do agree with what i think the approach is that she is taking there. you know, as i have said it takes some years and you then gradually pick up the moorings of the institution and the moorings of the institution, you are a judge. and you better be there for everybody. not just the democrats. not just the republicans. >> i mean, as an ideal, sure, as
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a description -- the supreme court has long been hostile to public scrutiny, they think they are above it. they think everything that happens outside the chamber is vulgar. you may have noticed we don't have much to show you when we talk about the court. to be honest, breaking the fourth wall, it makes it hard to do cable news segments about the court and that is on purpose, to insulat themselves from the what amy coney barrett calls hot takes. if there's one thing that i take a way is that the criticism is working. so, please, keep it up. the co-host of the podcast, strict scrutiny and the justice correspondent of the nation, he wrote that they have been wanting the term to stop
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progress and they both join me now. i am not quite sure where to start on this. but i think i want to start on the, on the it's working part of this melissa. it's striking to me the defensiveness. i mean, samuel alito to get up in notre dame law school and go after a piece in the atlantic about the court's failure to enjoin the, you know, texas is really striking. i want to play for you what he said and get your response to it, take a listen to what he said. >> here is a line from a recent piece talking about our refusal to grant an injection in the texas abortion case. quote, the conservative majority on the supreme court was so eager to nullify roe v. wade that it did not wait for oral argument. end quote. now, put aside the false and inflammatory claim that we nullified roe v. wade, we did no
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such thing and said that expressly in our order. >> what do you have to say to that. >> the fact that a sitting supreme court justice would call out a journalist by name is -- when he maybes statement on behalf of the court he has the insullation of the protection of the court and the marshal service. the journalist is a private citizen doing his job and will likely be the target of those who follow justice alito and who believe he has been wronged and will take up the cause. this is literally a justice of the supreme court punching down, naming names, adam's name was not the only name he recalled here. he specifically named a law professor who has done research about the expansion of the shadow docket, something that academics actually do. these are people doing their
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jobs in the same way that justice alito is defending himself and his colleagues doing their job. it's not the normal course of exchange in a liberal democracy, he is using the power of the pulpit to intimidate and incite others to go forward and take up a charge against this individual. it's naming enemies. >> also, it's, i mean, i agree with that, i also have -- i think that like adam and steve vladic, the law professor you were referring to who has done great work on this. they, they are in the new to the perry and thrust, we can all criticize each other. the preciousness and thin skinnedness is on display. it's like, hey, grow up dude, this is what it's like. >> but chris, it's also thin skinnedness for a purpose.
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there's a reason they don't want journalists talking about them. if you were going to make a set of decisions that were massively unpopular, that might actually wake the opposition party up from its 40 year stupor and try to do something to take away your power, would you a, want people to know about it? or b, want people to not know about it so you can employ the shaggy defense, it was not me, i don't know who took away women's rights. they want, what the supreme court is right now, and i am not being hyperbolic about this, they are thieves, thieves who have set out in the night to take away rights from women. take away rights from minorities. take away rights from vulnerable communities. and what all this charm offensive, that is the thieves shooting out the security cam a ras before they pull off their heist. which is coming this term. >> that, that's the thing they know. that's the thing, melissa, the specter of what they did in
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texas. which you did not nullify roe, you did. you can say in a strict sense it did not overrule it. but roe is nullified on the ground in texas. again, things have plain meaning. second of all, it's like, to the point, they know what they are about to do. that's the other thing that feels this way. they are going go in to this term and they can feel everyone waking up to what the court is. >> well, you think that is obvious though. we have had the b-team out here talking about they are not partisan hacks while mitch mcconnell sits flanking them on the podium and justice thomas talking about deference to opinions after writing with dismanting rulings. we have known it for a long time. what alarmed me today is this idea that it's a court that not only has to be a part of a democracy in which freedom of the press is an actual thing,
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it's part of making democracy work, it's punching down. not only withholding information from them, but punching down and then they are still in a position to make jurisprudence of what it means. we know what he thinks it means he is out here naming names. >> i thought the line about intimidation was a reference to the spector of court expansion. i think it hangs over them a bit and in their heads a touch, what do you think? >> absolutely it's in their heads. that is also how you explain stephen briar, he pointed out it's not just the conservatives, it's a liberal justice like stephen briar who is carrying the water and running the gaslighting game trying to tell us not to believe our own eyes. stephen briar right now is, he likes the spot like so much that he is about to interrupt taylor swift from getting an award. all right.
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he is so beyond, he is doing stephen colbert. he is selling a book. he has completely lost the plot of what his job is supposed to be. why? well, he loves the power. and i think that this is what you look at when you look across all nine justices, what you have right now are people who are so used to being untethered from accountability and reproach, they do not feel they can be touched. until someone touches them by expanding the court, they are going to act like this. >> thank you both for joining me. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> for members of the house today, it's september 30th part two, and speaker pelosi worked to support an infrastructure vote. what did the 24 hour extension get them, where things stand tonight and what the president had to say inside that room, speaking to the caucus
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in the house of representatives, today was still september 30th legislatively because the house never adjourned last night. instead, speaker pelosi worked late trying to shore up support for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. where we left the drama, progressive house democrats will not vote yes on that bipartisan
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infrastructure bill until and unless the big $3.5 trillion build back better package is hammered out and agreed to. and two democrat senators still won't agree. that is kyrsten sinema. she left while negotiations were ongoing. her office said she flew back to phoenix for a medical appointment. the "new york times" points out she has a fundraising event tomorrow. two birds with one stone, i guess. sinema did reportedly get on the phone with the white house this afternoon before president biden headed himself to capitol hill to meet with house democrats. the washington post was told, biden's message to moderates was the infrastructure, they have been pushing to get an up or down vote on, ain't going to happen until there's an agreement over the build back better act. nbc news reports said that biden said the negotiations are in
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$1.9 trillion, to 2.3 trillion dollars range. and he is optimistic that a deal will be made at some point. >> i'm telling you, we are going to get this done. doesn't matter when. doesn't matter whether it's in six minutes or, six days or six weeks. we are going to get it done. >> why has it been so challenging to unite the party? why isn't the party united? >> are you serious? 50/50? come on, man, unite the party, 50-50, i got it. >> just moments ago, the house voted on a bill that keeps highway funds flowing and then they left town. so, where are we at? would have the progressives that was at the meeting joins me now, take me through the meeting. >> chris, the president came in
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and indicated what progressives have been saying. we are doing what the president wants. the president said we are not going pass infrastructure until we get an reconciliation, he spent he hours and hours two senators trying to convince them. he has not succeeded yet. he is making progress and he said that he has told the senators don't give me a number. tell me what you're for and we will figure it out and the range you reported is one possibility. but the main thing was let's come to consensus in what we are for. >> so, yeah, the two things here. one i'm saying, i like that approach. frankly, i think the numbers, you know, we have done whole thing about the price is right. the number doesn't tell you anything. the number of a thing doesn't tell you the value of a thing t the price of a thing. it could be over priced and underpriced. there's ways to spend money that are good and bad. so what he is saying is we want
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to negotiate on what we are trying to do and then, research an agreement across the entire caucus, all 50 senators are in, and at that point, you and the progressive caucus can feel like you can fas bipartisan infrastructure bill, is that right? >> exactly. that's what the progressives have been saying. the president came in and said, that's what we need to do. there's a handful of house members that were insisting on a vote. so much so that there was a creative fiction that today was still september 30th. only in the house of representatives would they dream up that stuff. so the president came in and said, look, we have to get a reconciliation agreement, and what he stresses, let's not just talk about the number. let's talk about what is in the bill. we are going to give people child care. we are going to give people paid family leave. we are going to make sure that seniors get dental and vision benefits and community college for everyone. trying to tackle the environment and massive investments, let's
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talk about the things that we are for, not just get caught up in the number. >> so, kyrsten sinema and joe manchin are the hold outs. it seems that joe manchin is engaged in negotiations. whatever you think, he said, i'm not a liberal. fair enough. he is definitely not. sinema has been cageyer. she did finally come out with a statement yesterday. what do you think about her going back to arizona for a fundraiser at least in part, the hotel confirmed the event which kicks off the cocktail reception 5:30 saturday followed by dinner. what do you think of that move? >> well, it's obvious she doesn't care at all about the optics. i don't understand why with all of the scrutiny she is engaged in raising money from interests that are affected by the legislation. but look, i mean, my understanding is she sat down with speaker pelosi or they had a long conversation, she has been at least engaging, and i
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think it's because of the pressure that she is finally engaging. i believe that progressives are going to come to a consensus, and i hope, i heard she is strong on climate and let us know what she is for and what she is against. but maybe she will say, i'm not for paid family leave. or i don't want seniors to get dental and vision. tell us what parts are you getting? >> wait a second, she sat down with pelosi? >> she had a conversation. whether it was sitting down or over the phone. i have been told that she did have a conversation. and you know, that's productive. >> yeah. >> so, at least she is engaging. >> all right. congressman, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. don't go anywhere, senator richard bloomenthal is here to talk about the social media -- >> are you going to commit to ending --
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the senate held a hearing yesterday with a facebook executive about protecting kids online on the company's platforms which includes instagram. this happens a lot. the internet pounced on when senator richard blumenthal was asking about finstas. >> will you commit to ending finsta? >> senator, again, let me explain, we don't actually, we don't actually do finsta. what finsta refers to is young people setting up accounts where they want, and they want to have more privacy. >> the media and the internet went wild with that, everyone olds the old senator out of touch with the youngsters
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moment. here's the thing, senator is blumenthal is the chair of the subcommittee and arranged for the testimony after internal documents revealed that the company is aware of the negative affects of platforms on teens. the "wall street journal" reported we make body images worse for 1 in 3 teen girls. teens blame instagram for increasing the rate of anxiety and depression, said another slide. this reaction was unprompted and consistent across all groups. that's from facebook's own research. in fact, earlier in the hearing, blumenthal himself gave a clear explanation of finstas, when he explained why facebook is targeting teens. >> i want to talk about one major source of concern for parents. they are finstas. finstas are fake instagram accounts. finstas are kids secret second
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accounts. finstas often are intended to avoid parents oversight. facebook depends on teens for growth. facebook knows that teens often are the most tech savvy in the household. the facebook knows that nearly every teen in the united states has an instagram account. it can only add more users as fast as they, there are new 13-year-olds. >> yes, so, exactly. the point is that the existence of finstas, and the ability to create different accounts for 13-year-olds, is actually a point of important regulatory emphasis, the one that the senator clearly understands. and senator richard blumenthal of connecticut joins me now. senator, explain to me the regulatory concern here. you have, you know, 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds who can get on instagram. and they can create accounts that understandably because they
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are 14, they don't want their parents to watch, through, you know, they can have one user with a bunch of accounts. why is that a concern to a u.s. senator? why do you ask that question and go down that line of inquiry? >> chris, you know, i took a bit of ribbing online. the internet had a laugh. my kids had a laugh. and i had a laugh. but there's something deadly serious as you have just stated. facebook did studies, they did the research. they had findings and recommendations that showed how deeply destructive instagram can be in eating disorders, online bullying, self injury, even suicide. and instagram provides a means for those children, 13 and 14-year-olds to completely avoid any parental oversight or help. and so, the thrust of my question was that, essentially,
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facebook ought to be helping parents to protect their children. but second there's another serious point here. which is that facebook's growth, it's metrics consist of numbers of users that is how it raises the stock level. the way it sells to advertisers. so, facebook essentially is making money by exploiting kids vulnerabilities and we know as parents, anybody who has had teenage children and mine are four, beyond the teenage years now. these are the most vulnerable years in self image and susceptibility to doubt and negative images of ones self. what we need is stronger intervention to help the kids and help the parents. >> the point you are making which is an interesting and important one is the amount of
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accounts and handles is the growth metric. a single teenager with four or five accounts is good for instagram. they are wanting those numbers to go as high as possible, even if parents say, we need one identified account for our identified kid and not having them anonymously swimming through the world of instagram. >> they are profiting of the destruction of the kids' self image and the perfect storm as one of the studies show it. they concealed it. and there's a striking parallel to big tobacco. i sued big tobacco and led the litigation against big tobacco. i remember the moment we learned that big tobacco had done the research showing their products are toxic and addictive despite their denials.
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i felt the same sensation when i learned of the documents brought to us by the "wall street journal" and to me, in my office, by a whistle blower and that whistle blower will testify tuesday. >> so, wow, you are having another hearing tuesday? >> we will have another hearing tuesday and we will have more tech platforms coming to talk in formal hearings because this phenomenon is not limited to facebook. the profiting from harm to children is more prevalent than realized. >> we will have you back to talk about banning thirst traps next time you are on. >> okay. i will talk with the push to ban words like equity and social justice from classrooms and job
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creation and a greener future, why the democrats should be taking a victory lap. you earned it. you earned it. after this. and enjoy the ride a little more. now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. ♪ ♪ you're in good hands with allstate. peerless design, cutting-edge tech, and a world-class interior. the exhilarating mercedes-benz glc. extraordinary runs in the family.
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just about every politician an campaigns on jobs, specifically on stopping jobs from moving overseas. key campaign promise, especially from donald trump, and trump sold the sizzle of the jobs and manufacturing stuff no matter how many times he under delivered on the stake. it started before he was sworn in as president. remember this, carrier reversus plans to close a plant in indiana and moves jobs to mexico. that gesture was way less than promised. the plant was saved but carrier eliminated more than a thousand jobs in indiana. and then a company that was going to employee 13,000 people, make l.e.d. screens. here is trump in the ground breaking ceremony in 2018.
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>> congratulations on truly one of the eighth wonder, i think we can say, we can say, the eighth wonder of the world. this is the eighth wonder of the world. but this is something so special. >> trump said it's the agent -- the eighth wonder of the world. where did i hear that before. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ trump taj mahall, a shining treasure, it's donald trump's astounding taj mahall! >> i like the way they rhymed that. much like his taj mahall casino, leaving behind a broken community and broken promises, it was not the eighth wonder of the world, unless you wonder what happened to it. it cut the initially promised
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$10 billion investment, and grossly under delivered on new jobs the jobs that did materialize are not marking the great return of american manufacturing. saying the handful of jobs that the company claims to have created are not real. hires of the company could reach the required number to get tax subsidies. then there's the pledge that trump made to workers in ohio imlying he would stop general motors from downsizing the very, very big lourdstown factory, and promised to save the jobs in the area. >> those jobs have left ohio. they are all coming back. they are all coming back. coming back. don't move. don't sell your house. >> don't sell your house. general motors closed up shop in
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lourdestown, another company bought the plant and foxconn, fresh off the failure of the eighth wonder of the world will take over the lordstown location. donald trump promised manufacturing jobs in indiana, wisconsin and ohio that failed to materialize. but there's a path toward renewing american manufacturing and it's through the green economy. we have a lot of things to build for the clean energy transition. democrats have been promising it for years and it's actually coming true. ford, perhaps, i think spurred by the biden climate agenda the understanding that the government is getting serious about cutting emissions, recently announced four new plants and factories in kentucky and tennessee that are projected to create 11,000 new jobs. it's the companies biggest one-time manufacturing investment ever. it's the biggest one-time
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manufacturing investment in its history. biden visited the ford factory earlier this year in deerborn, michigan. to test drive the f-150 electric truck. >> mr. president! >> this sucker is quick. >> mr. president, how fast were you going? >> okay, i'm just gonna step on it and come off at 80 miles an hour. okay, here we go. >> let's see it, sir! >> ready? >> he was right by the way. electric cars have much, much better about pick up than a standard combustion engine. just see if he had over seen ford making the largest
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manufacturing investment its history. it's all he would be talking b democrats, take a victory lap. brag about the accomplishment. sell the sizzle here. ♪ lights out, follow the noise ♪ ♪ baby, keep on dancing like you ain't got a choice ♪ ♪ so come on, come on, come on ♪ ♪ let's get physical ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ let's get physical ♪ no one is just one flavor ♪ ow! ♪
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. in wisconsin the republican controlled state assembly has just passed a law prohibiting teachers from telling students the truth about our country's often violent racist history under the guise of fighting the boogie man of critical race theory. the bill would create a statewide curriculum that would ban concepts like systemic racism and implicit bias. the bill also includes a huge list of actual banned words and phrases, including equity, multiculturalism, and intersection. also hygemony is in there.
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it would almost certainly be vetoed but it's an example of where the critical race theory moral panic was going to end up, literally banning the teaching of uncomfortable truths about america's history. i'm joined by someone trying to teach the full scope of america's history, brian stevenson the founder and executive director of the equal justice initiative which just opened its new legacy museum in montgomery, alabama, providing a comprehensive of the united states with a focus on the legacy of slavery. sitting near the site of that incredible national memorial for peace and justice which the initiative opened in 2018 to commemorate the victims -- the u.s., brian it's great to have you, congratulations on the opening. i guess i first want your reaction as someone who is so invested in connecting the past to the present and the practice that you have in terms of defending folks who are on death row in the incarceration system. to watching these school boards and legislatures literally
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banning phrases, concepts as a tool for stopping people from learning that history. >> well, i mean, these are the symptoms of a weak and fragile society. i can't think of anything more un-american than banning of ideas. i'm not a communist, but i want to understand what communism is about. i'm not an atheist, but i want to understand what that world view is about. in the 1930s the nazis banned reading books by albert einstein, or helen keller, banned reading books in french or english. and that's why we need to recognize that this is a threat not just to the conversation about race and history but to a functioning democracy. nobody who goes to the doctor wants to be told that they have high blood pressure or diabetes or lung cancer or breast cancer but the doctor needs to tell you the truth because that diagnosis is the only way you're going to get to treatment. the truth is, the history of
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racial injustice in this country and we can't hide from it or run from it or ban it. we're going to have to confront it. and i think one of the distractions created by this misguided debate on critical race cheerily is that people are exploiting gang rights, most people don't know what k-theory is. somebody comes along saying we're banning it, they're not going to have an informed view of that. but if you say k-theory means white people are bad and other people are good. so we ban that. that's sort of the way this debate has been playing out. it's all rooted in ignorance. and i think americans need to say this banning of ideas doesn't seem healthy to me. if we ban the teaching of climate science, the planet will be destroyed. if we ban the teaching of things we need to know how to survive we will not be healthy. and so i really do hope that people will turn in the other direction. let's confront our history and confront our past and what we're
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trying to do in our space is to encourage people to know that if you confront the truth of our past, you're not going to be destroyed. we're not interested in punishment, we're actually interested in creating a better future. i believe there's something better waiting for us in this country, something that feels more like freedom and equality and justice. but we can't get there if we're unwilling to acknowledge the problems that we have to overcome. >> let me turn that around. it's really interesting point and i think there's an incredible irony here, the initial must remembererings about critical race theory was that it was cutting off viewpoints, campus culture had run amuck and people weren't allowed to discuss things. i wonder what you think of that critique, that people have gotten too sensitive or they won't talk about certain difficult items across a wide variety of ideological venues. >> talking about difficult things is always hard.
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there's always going to be challenges. we didn't talk about gender equality for a long time in this country. there was a narrative that women shouldn't vote. shouldn't be professionals and when women started saying that's wrong and sexist. it made people uncomfortable. but through that conversation we actually opened up our professions and we became a healthier, stronger society, as a result of it. big tobacco didn't want people talking about the toxins and the death of the disease created by nicotine and these other things but through that conversation we learned something about how we stay healthy. you know, first of all, if we were talking about what's happening at elite colleges and universities, if we're talking about higher institutions it's a different conversation. that's not what school boards are dealing with, that's not what states are dealing with and that's why it's so misguided. the harder problem, chris, is that we haven't talked very honestly. most people in this country have no idea how many indigenous
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people died when europeans came to this continent or that the trans-atlantic slave trade -- that massachusetts is the first state to legalize slavery that the boston harbor wasn't just the site of the tea party, it's also a space where thousands of enslaved people were trafficked. thaft coast of new jersey was a place for trafficking people. i admire what's happened in germany because that's a country that's reckoned with the history of the holocaust. and if they never talked about the holocaust, if they had iconography celebrating the third reich, i wouldn't go there, but because there's a holocaust memorial in the city of berlin, people are required to learn that history, there are no adolf hitler statues in germany, no memorials to the articles of the third reich. i live where iconography is dedicated to slavery and white
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supremacy and that different between those societies is what is keeping us constrained. we're not free. and to do that, to get there, we're going to have to be honest and deal with this history. and i'm from a faith tradition, you can't come into my church and say i want redemption and salvation and all that good stuff but i'm not going to admit and confess anything, that process of learning and repenting, that's what opens the door to redemption and restoration and reconciliation. >> brian stevenson, thank you so much, it's always such a pleasure to have you and i cannot wait to visit the new museum. have a great weekend, thank you. that is all in for this week. the rachel maddow show starts now with ali velshi. sorry i'm late. >> it's not my show to give the toim away but i was really enjoying that conversation. had it been mine, i would have said keep going. that was very, very interesting. good to see you, my friend. have yourself a great weekend. >> you too. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. rachel oos got the night off and happy friday to all of you and happy oct

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