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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  September 27, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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for now, "deadline: white house" begins right now. hi there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york. today's political environment has reached new lows, where one of the two major political parties has completed its transformation into an anti-truth party truth in fact do not apply in instances where they don't serve gop interests. it's a phenomenon we witnessed years ago from the disgraced, two-impeached expresident who at rally told his supporters not to believe their ice, not the believe their ears, to only believe him. now, nearly 11 months after the election of president joe biden, after multiple failed lawsuits, even after a deadly insurrection, the picking and choosing of facts by the gop more previous help than ever last week we saw the release of the results of arizona's fraudit. rather than be embarrassed or ashamed that the hunt for van boo, screenings of ub live,
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millions of taxpayer dollars spent recounting again the votes of maricopa county, arizona that it only resulted in a confirmation of president joe biden's win, republicans have opted to overlook those findings, at least the ones they don't like the niles rights it like this, quote as draft copies of the report began to circulate last thursday trump allies ignored the new tally instead circling in and cherry picking from the report on friday, the former president and his allies cited a series of eye-popping statistics that on first glance appeared to bolster their case, trusting that their supporters either would not digest the document in full or would not trust the mainstream news outlets that laid it its complete content while believing lie is never good for society it has become a real threat now that people are willing to act on those lies,
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especially people in positions of influence it is a situation being encountered in mesa county, colorado where tina peters is now being considered an insider threat quote, over the past month in a lawsuit filed by the state's top election official peters and her deputy have been accused of sneaking someone into the offices to copy the hard drives of the voting systems machines those copies then surfaced on line in the hands of deniers several departments including the fbi are investigating. peters's actions are just the beginning of what could become a large scale threat to our demo democracy. quote, the events in mesa county represent an escalation in the attacks on the nation's voting system, one of the officials who was responsible for the nation's security took actions to undermine that security in the name of protecting it.
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experts fear that people who embrace those claims could be elected or appointed to offices where they oversee voting, potentially posing new security risks. the hallmark of our democracy, of our country, really, free and fair elections, is now in jeopardy thanks entirely to the lies spread by the expresident, lies enabled and repeated and emboldened by the leaders in his own party, one of the very, very, very few in the republican party willing to stand up to the disinformation, congresswoman liz cheney she addressed how even those in her own party saying nothing are harming our democracy. >> when you look at the -- the spread of these mistruths, and the spread of the disinformation, you know, silence enables it silence enables the liar and silence helps to it spread so the first thing you have to
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do is say, no, i am not going to accept that we are going to privilege in a post-truth world. it is a toxin, leslie, in our political bloodstream. because when we allow that to continue to go on in the face of rulings of the court n the face of recounts, in the case of everything that's gone on to demonstrate that there was not fraud that would have changed the outcome, then we all -- if we do that, we are contributing to the undermining of our system and it's a really serious and dangerous moment because of that. >> serious use, dangers, long lasting widespread dangers of the expresident's big lice we this hour with nick corasaniti, claire mccaskill,
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and daniel goldman i want to start with you, daniel, goldman, because you can take what liz cheney said about the toxin. you can lay it over the result at least or the conduct of republicans during the first impeachment trial, lay it over the result of the conduct of republicans during donald trump's second impeachment trial and i wonder when you watch this runaway train that frankenstein that mccarthy and mitch mcconnell helped assembly now a clear and present danger to the integrity of our country's elections. >> what we saw during the first impeachment, it was a completely circular straw man argument. what i mean by that is that the republicans decided early on that they were going to claim that our investigation was partisan it wasn't. the witnesses that we had were all trump administration
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officials or career civil servants there wasn't a single democrat, political operative or anyone in the obama administration, et cetera but what they wanted to do was create this veneer of partisanship then they turned around and claimed that the reason why they couldn't and wouldn't impeach trump is because the investigation was partisan well, it was only partisan because they made it partisan. that's now what we are seeing over and over and over brad raffensperger, who claimed that this most recent election was completely clean, was totally legitimate, stood up to donald trump now he's advocating new hyper suppressive and dangerous voter laws and the reason he gives is, well, people are concerned about the integrity. well, anybody can be concerned about anything, but there has to be some sort of factual base for
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that concern for anyone to, such as the secretary of state to legitimatize and we are not seeing that anywhere so essentially, donald trump is just creating chaos with all these lies, with the idea of in 2022 or 2024 saying, well, we don't know whether what we see with our eyes and we hear with our ear is actually true, so we need to go to the elected officials overseeing these elections to have them decide who won, not the voters. and that's the real danger that we are facing. >> dan, let's stick with georgia. you are absolutely right i think it's -- and secretary raffensperger was here it is a perfect encapsulation of everything that's broken the person running genz him is a whoer, a trump-backed person who would have absolutely subverted the will of the georgian people.
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but raffensperger was defending the voter suppression law but couldn't answer what problem they solve because there was no fraud found in georgia i know donald trump suspect on trial, can't be impeached a third time, i guess. but he was in georgia and he was talking about exactly what he wanted governor kemp to do can we watch that? and answer what he is confessing to for me on the other side. >> i said, brian, inwill, you know, you have a big election integrity problem in georgia i hope you can call us out and call a special election and let's get to the bottom off it for the good of the country. let's get to the bottom of it for the good of your state let's go, election integrity, what can be better than that sir, i'm sorry, i cannot do that what i said, you cannot do that so let me tell you this guy is a disaster
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he's a disaster. >> georgia audited and recounted their votes three times. there was no fraud but it's interesting that donald trump is confessing to what he wanted he said i hope you can help us out and call a special election. he didn't just want raffensperger to find votes, he actually wanted a new election to be held in georgia. how does that figure into the evidence that the 1/6 committee is gathering >> i think it figures a little bit into the evidence of the 1/6 committee. but it really goes more broadly to an overarching conspiracy that is evolving as we learn more and more. you and i spoke about this last week that is the type of evidence that you layer on to his phone call with brad raffensperger you layer on to -- his efforts to get people inside the d.o.j. to write a letter to the georgia officials to say that there were issues with the election and
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that they should have some sort of special election or recount or just have the elected officials decide it. and you start to lockok at a lo of the evidence that we saw in impeachment two. there was a lot loong-up to january 6th. yes, and georgia case, within the futurondown d.a., will focus just on georgia. but the department of justice needs to take a broader look at the president's conduct and those very close to him dating before the election all way up through january 6th. because what we are learning in the public -- and all we know is public information there is undoubtedly is lot more information. starts to amount to some sort of a conspiracy to interfere in this election, which is potentially what's called a federal 371 conspiracy, a general conspiracy to violate the federal laws and i think that that is where this evidence falls in, that we are starting to see more and more of it come out.
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>> claire, to dan goldman's point, donald trump has outed al of his collaborators we know that mark meadows was on the call with raffensperger. we know that mark meadows was pressing the justice department. we know -- most of these people did these things in full view. mark elias writes, first, republicans want to create the sense of grievance among volters to motivate them to turn out in 2022 when donald trump won't be on the ballot. second, gop wants to offer excuses to further limit voting rights under the guise of security third, republicans want to normalize the abnormal by making frivolous claims debatable and despicable political figures more mainstream, finally the party wants to create a sense
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that the outcome of election is unknowing depending on who counts the ballot suggesting that officials should step in and decide close elections election results are knowable, especially results that are recounted three times. they are knowable. frankly, stop the steal-funded cyber cooks, whatever their name s they actually found a few more votes for president biden. vote counts are knowable talk about this effort to say up is down and down is up and it is all a lie and you can't know unless you hear it from me. >> well, you know, it would be one thing if this incredibly toxic reality was just trump i mean, we know he's a liar. we know he's always been a liar. his supporters believe him he knows that. so what he's really done is he's destroyed an important norm in our democracy.
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and that norm is, if you outrageously lie as an elected official, you are going to pay a price for it well, he's not paying the price he should. i mean, think about how these norms have been busted, nicole he goes in front of a podium, in front of a large number of people trashes republican office holders in the state in which he is, he lies repeatedly about everything from what happened in arizona to what happened on january 6th to what happened in the election and not a single republican, saved a annekin zinger and liz cheney said butkus i mean the republican writ large leaders, whether it is rob portman, or whether it is, you know, somebody who has been around washington forever and used to have a lot of respect for being kind of a stand-up guy with some ethics and he's retiring. pat toomey
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he's retiring. richard burr it's retiring. why aren't these people who no longer have to fear the cabal of people who want to believe donald trump's lies, those that no longer have to fear them, can't they muster up some courage like liz cheney has had? what kind of wimps are these guys that they are letting this man destroy the norms of our democracy? >> i mean, other than not having hands as big as lizs, why don't they say -- you know these people, claire, where is roy blunt, where are all of those people that you used to know >> i will tell you where they are. they are where they have been since the beginning of the trump presidency, when they realized that was a man who could say and do things in his life and not pay for it think about what his history was
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when he was elected and he still got elected. i mean he was grabbing women's whatevers. in his voice, a tape of him saying that. and he got elected president so they are hiding because they are afraid of the trump base they are afraid its too big. they are afraid its too powerful i have got news for them the only way it is not too big and too powerful is if you speak up if you stay quiet, it's not going to begin to dissemible it has to be somebody pushing back on the lies and saying, you know, we don't have to lie to lead this country. >> yeah, i mean, nick, we have spent a lot of time talking about the voter suppression laws, how they all address integrity, which is intent danger but they target the kinds of vote that were predominantly cast by democratic voters. and your specificity with which you can analyze the things ruled out in texas, they were things
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that that were in some instances most secure, drivethrough voting we haven't spent much time talking about redistricting. but that is the next stop on this runaway train explain. >> in fact, texas just released the first draft of their maps which really shore up incumbent protections in texas, which kind of speaks to the ascend antsy of the democratic party there now texas is a state that's controlled completely by republicans, republican governor, republican state house. so what we saw on that map, knowing that democrats have been pushing ever closer to challenging at the statewide levels to flipping some of these congressional districts is that they redrew those maps with slight dwtweaks to basically shr up the incumbents so the 13 democrats stay the 13 democrats there. they did that by finding new
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ways to redraw the districts during the redistricting process to advantage their own party it happens on both sides oregon is about to pass a map or might have already, that they are adding a new district. it is going to be 0-1 democratic after the federal voting rights act was gutted in 2013 by the shelby decision these states kind of have frein reins, the ones drawn bipartisan legislatures are redraw their maps and shore up and pick their own voters and slant what should be a free and fair election to one party or another. >> nick, it is your writing that we read from about how even one of their fraudulent attempts at auditing or quality control of a vote, the vote of maricopa county that turns up or affirms the veracity of the original vote count which has been recounted twice, so a total of three counts, confirmed by the cyber ninjas, how even that is cherry picked. talk about your reporting. >> well, when you looked at the
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top line numbers and see that they added to biden's total victory in maricopa county, it was clear that this was never an audit that was designed to pay attention to the top line numbers if they didn't go their way. there has always been this methodical cherry picking of data among right wing media to make sure they can spin whatever narrative fits them. we have seen it in claims of voter fraud kinds of all around the country. in 2016 there were 3 million voters i believe voters bussed into new hampshire which is even more than voters voted in that state. the has long time been warped statistics what we saw is as soon as that report came out and that it was clear it didn't unearth a miss droechb of missing trump votes --vo
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vovotes, they systemically went through every allegation of duplicated ballots. of people who moved, more ballots than votes they could say cyber ninjas didn't know what they were doing and they were relying on faulty data but they had to have the allegation of, say, 23,000 ballots that might have been coming from different addresses. now all of a sudden that's all they need. and now that's all of a sudden 23,000 fraudulent ballots. but that's not what cyber ninjas said but they seized on it and used it moving forward. i think what was important in that report by cyber ninjas were the legislative recommendations. i think that's going to be a road map possibly for what we see in arizona in the immediate further. there were suggests to further
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limit the permanent mail-in voting list which sends out ballots across the state it has 70% or so of the state's total vote who are use it. using those numbers you might see the arizona legislature, which is run by the republicans and has a republican governor move the make alterations to that i think we are going to start to see even more voting legislation that could bring a whole new host of restrictions to arizona based on how the right wing has chosen to look at the report and what was found. >> dan, if you step back, what the heck are all these partisan groups doing touching ballots? i mean, is there no federal interest in preserving accounted or recounted, audited, and a certified vote count is anybody -- because seems to me like if the cyber ninjas can
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get their hands on anybody's ballot, anybody can. >> i mean, look, nicole, this is a relatively new phenomenon, to have all of these elections, these state elections, called into question with misinformation, disinformation, all of these allegations even if you go back to that brad raffensperger call with donald trump and others, they systematically went through and rebutted all of these claims if you look at the new york state judicial committee's opinion in taking away giuliani's law license, they just systematically go through and rebut, you know, just with -- with amazing credituality and amazing authority, every allegation they have made. and then you have this colorado thing where this elected official is sneaking people in at night to take the servers that absolutely needs to be
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investigated and i think that if the laws do not support criminal charges for conduct like that, we need to start making new laws. and i would -- there are, i imagine, laws that that kind of behavior fits in but what you are talking about, about all of these sort of partisan groups doing, quote, recounts, unquote, or fraudits, or whatever it is, it is hard to make a criminal case out of that right now. and i think it's really incumbent on the states to pas laws that prohibit that kind of -- that kind of activity. but of course the republican legislator -- >> right. >> the republican-controlled legislatures aren't going to do that. >> the states that need it most are the states it won't be able to pass. vicious cycle. nick, thank you for more important reporting. claire and dan are sticking around. when we come back, all eyes are on how republicans respond
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to the subpoenas from the january 6th select committee specifically, maybe mccarthy gets one next as liz cheney calls him out for his support of the expresident's lies. plus, the implications of failing could turn us back to a majority gop that has no intention of even pretending to govern for all americans later and the show, more on just how far donald trump was willing to go to carry out his lies to the broader american public a whistleblower coming forward on how intelligence was manipulated in the final days of the trump administration all these stories and remo when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt.
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what he's done is embraced donald trump and if i were doing what he's doing, i would be deeply ashamed of myself. i don't know how you explain that to your children. when you are in a situation where you have somebody who did what donald trump did, it is absolutely clear he cannot continue to be somebody you embrace. >> kevin mccarthy, we are at the start of a critical period for the january 6th select committee and the investigation into the insurrection with four trump aides subpoenaed last week, all eyes are turning to whether kevin mccarthy who liz cheney says should be ashamed over his embrace of donald trump will be subpoenaed to testify or provide documents
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as well. mark meadows, dan scavino, steve bannon and cash patel have been ordered to turn over documents by next week and all are ordered to appear for depositions the following week put it at the 14th or 15th of october. looming over everything, question of whether and however those records from the trump white house make their way to the january 6th select committee investigating the insurrection while the expresident, donald trump, said he intends to invoke executive privilege to stop his records from ending up in the hands of the committee the power isn't really his anymore it. belongs in the hands of the current occupant of the white house, joe biden politico writes, the white house said it intends to review each request on a case by case basis adding this, quote, once the documents are delivered trump legally has 30 days to approve or deny the release. if trump decides to object, biden can still turn the material over since his white
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house has the final say on matter back with claire and dan kplar, the white house taking sort of clarifying that their position on executive privilege is case by case and they will give the expresident all of his sort of prerogatives and rights to object. but do you think at the end of the day, these documents make their way to the january 6th committee? >> one bay or another, i think biden lets most of them go he would be mindful if there was something which for example, was a true miscommunication that didn't get out of his circle steve bannon, he's a, hack he didn't work at the white house. wasn't a government employee, wasn't the president's lawyer. i really think they do get there. here's the other thing if these guys fight these subpoenas, if these four people that you just had across the screen fight these subpoenas it could take a long time
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on the other hand, as raskin said this weekend these guys don't know what they already have they may be fighting to keep them from getting things or getting noogs the committee already has in its possession, which puts them in a really dicey position compared to when trump could turn off the spigot of information at every government agency. >> dan, there is this constant dynamic. i'm sure you dealt with this in the first impeachment where so much of trump's criminality, misconduct or corruption live stream from the twitter feed, puked out by steve bannon on his web show or whatever it's does for a job. i wonder what you think they are looking for in the documents >> they are looking for communications about the january 6th riot and insurrection and whether there were any plans before january 6th that involved
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white house officials or whether and to what extent they knew about the efforts to, or the premeditated design of storming the capitol. what they want to know is, was this something that simply these right-wing domestic violent extremist groups took on their own from the mess -- from the broader messages that donald trump issued or was there coordination behind the scenes with the white house, with the campaign? what was -- you know, dan scavino handled all of the digital media, and the social media, what did he know from the web, from social media about what was being planned did he have any role in fomenting that what did steve bannon know in advance of it? so there are -- there is potential -- this goes to the heart what have we want to know. you know, we know a lot about what happened on january 6th
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from the second impeachment, from the d.o.j.'s numerous -- hundreds of prosecutions but what we don't know is what happens what happened behind the scenes so january 6th committee is going right to the heart of the matter largely because they are anticipating, i'm sure, litigation so they want to leave enough time for there to be this litigation that's coming almost certainly. and they can still get documents in the spring when the litigation plays out >> can i just press you, dan goldman? i mean, we know there was a memo lig out the coup written by mr. eastman. how much more premedicated can it be than a memo laying out how the coup want operationalized? mike pence just had to send the votes back i mean we have seen it all in writing. are we looking to see who received that? we know donald trump told pence not to certify the vote. with know he horizoned him at a rally in georgia so much of it happened in full
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view it seems like this hunt for the elusive smoking gun which will have to go on the several next to the smoking against you produced in the impeachment trial, in the second impeachment. what do we need other than the thing in write being the coup plan >> we forehead need to know who saw that whether there was any execution of that plan a good example which recently came out with sidney powell, trump'sers while lawyer who said there was a design to delay the certification so that justice alito, who would handle any litigation because he was the supreme court justice overseeing the matter, could intervene. but, who else was involved in that plan? who knew about that plan was it coordinated with, you know, someone like amy kramer, who both organized the million maga march in december and was also involved in january 6th we don't know a lot of the sort
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of detailed, day-to-day planning that occurred behind the scenes and whether this was just simply trump supporters or whether it was the trump administration and the trump campaign quietly pushing for this to happen those are two very different things that we don't know yet. and that's what we are hoping the january 6th committee can find out. >> claire, dan goldman just mentioned i think one of the most interesting and intriguing new pieces of information. again, it's from sidney powell, a known and proven liar, currently being sued for over $1 billion from i believe dominion and smartmatic but she does invoke the united states supreme court we didn't play that interview because the supreme court hasn't responded whether there was any credence to it but all the institutions have now been invoked as being in on the coup plot. donald trump was on the phone every day with his department of justice. he name checks, leave it to me and my buddies in congress
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and sidney powell, who was for a while donald trump's top attorney in this, it's reported in "peril" by robert costa that donald trump considered making her a special counsel and giving her a job inside the government. she said in this interview dan goldman is talking about that the plan was to kick it to the united states supreme court. >> well, when dan just called her a lawyer it felt like fingernails on a blackboard. i don't think she deserves that title. by the way she has conducted herself. lawyers, when they take their oath, in front of a court, i might add. when you become a lawyer, the oath you take is in front of a judge. and you swear to uphold the law. and that means including saying things that are truthful in your pleadings. and she has lied in almost every pleading she's ever had. so i do think it is important,
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especially in light of what she said in this radio show or whatever it was, podcast you know, crazy town over there. that she should be called in and discuss what, if anything. i mean, in fairness to alito, we don't know if he had any idea that this was their plan, because he was the judge that was assigned at that time that would have taken the case. i mean, you know, in fairness, we have no idea that he had any idea what was going on but let me turn a question to dan goldman for a moment you and i both watched him in the first impeachment. we struggled during that kbeemt for congress drg during that im for congress to get the documents it needed. how important is it for congress, when there are enough votes through filibuster reform or more democrats being elected or maybe republicans regaining their sanity, how important is it to pass a law that when congress pass as subpoena it
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goes to the top of the docket that it doesn't linger like when i did back page -- it took rebound portman and i two years ago to enforce a subpoena. all the way to the supreme court. why can't we get a lou that allows one branch of government to be able to do the oversight it needs with the cooperation of a speedy decision by the judges on these subpoenas >> well, claire, you hit the nail on the head there is law that was recently introduced that i worked on when i was in the beginning stages of it when i was in congress. the protecting our democracy act, which does institute an expedited schedule for the enforcement of congressional subpoenas. and that is directly designed to address what donald trump did not so much with the impeachment, because we knew what the tactic was. so we didn't even bother litigating the subpoenas but related to the deutsche bank
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litigation, which still hasn't been resolved more than two years later. so donald trump wins by losing. >> yeah is this because he just is delaying the litigation and that's his goal. >> wins by losing. that can replace maga. dan goldman thank you for spending time with us. to be continued. claire isn't going anywhere. the biden agenda at a pivotal point this week. the consequences of any of it failing are bigger than we may realize at this point. could potentially endanger democrats ahead of the midterm elections. we'll be right back.
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what does it mean for your agenda and your presidency -- what is at stake >> victory is at stake we have three things to do, the debt ceiling, continued resolution, and the twoe pieces of legislation >> that was president biden today ahead of a big week on capitol hill which could determine the hand that democrats have to play heading into the midterm elections republicans expected to block a bill in the next hour that would fund the government and raise the debt ceiling which could lead to a shutdown by thursday night of this week democratic leaders of the house and senate are under pressure to pass economic bills key to president biden's agenda, but they are meeting opposition within their own party the stakes for getting president biden's agenda through congress couldn't be higher
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never trumpers rooted for the success of the biden presidency because we understood the consequences of failure. if the democrats blow it now, they will be opening the door for a restoration of politics of nilism head by the orange one himself. nobody wants that. joining our conversation, jason johnson of oregon state university as well as contributor to the grio. claire is still here jason johnson, make sense this for me >> it's hard to do look, i love president biden's optimism where he is like we just have a couple things to do. we need to make a four leaf clover salad and find a needle in a hay stack and get all of these people to work together. this is actually a really difficult week this is extremely complicated because you have well-meaning forces both in the house and the senate who don't trust the other side to get a bill passed. i agree with the progressive
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caucus in the housesaying look we are not going to vote for the infrastructure bill unless they are going to be able to pass the sort of human infrastructure bill with reconciliation that is a legitimate fight that is the kinds of thing joe biden is trying to take care of right now. i don't know if he's going to be successful we have seen debt crisis and raising the ceiling, we have seen that happen before. i think that will get fixed. but the legislative issues -- i don't know where the middle grounds is, but if democrats don't get these things fixed nobody in america gives a crap about the internal arguments they see a democratic party that controls the house, the senate, and the white house that can't seem to get anything run this week. >> i think that's right, as usual, jason's political analysis is spot on. what are you hearing i know you still talk to lots of folks on the hill? what is your advice? >> well, let's first deal with the default and shutting down
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the government just keep in mind what they are voting on today. they are voting to not shut down the government and they are voting to raise the debt ceiling, which is not new spending, has nothing to do with future spending, has nothing to do with biden's agenda it has everything to do with the $900 billion that the republicans voted for under trump. and the republican party is really comfortable now, i guess, being the party of default custom is really unbelievable if you think about it during the trump presidency, all of the democrats opposed the tax give away to the wealthy that was a budget buster, trillions of dollars in money -- government money to the wealthy. and no democrat was for it but yet, the democrats gave the republicans vote on raising the debt limit even though we didn't vote for it. we gave them votes so that we would not default and have an economic crisis that would reach
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worldwide. and it went back to every american family. they are willing to do that. they are willing to allow default. so they should pay a political price for the political hackery that they are involved in right now. now, secondly, the fight again the moderates and the progressives as relates to biden's agenda this is biden's agenda it is not joe manchin's agenda, it's not the progressive caucus's agenda. it's biden's agenda. he's the leader of our party get your act together, find middle ground and push this thing through, period. that's what i would say to all of my friends, that's what bim trying to say to my friends if they ask. >> we know they watch you here listen, jason, republicans are finding kernels in a crappy audit that found more votes for
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joe biden to sell to their base. they don't give a hoot about the reason we need to raise -- what claire is saying is of course correct but republicans don't care chaos is their brand i wonder, given sort of not the republican party we wish existed but the one that we actually know exists, what do you think happens? >> well, i think that, again, they are inoculated from t consequences of their own bad behavior and they should face consequences at the ballot box gosh,the only way to make that happen to be maybe to pass john lewis voting rights act which would mean getting rid of the filibuster all of this stuff ends up going back to the senate the reason the republicans can behave the way they are right now in the senate, gumming up the debt ceiling, standing in the way of human investment, getting rid of abortion in texas and suppressing votes in different places is because they don't have to fear consequences at the ballot box.
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that could be fixed if the filibuster were reformed and then you could pass the john lewis voting rights act which means the actual people get to select their leaders and the leaders get in to select the people that's what it boils down to if the democratic party and joe biden can get the policy things done they have got to address the infrastructure difficulties we have withinl within voting because if they don't fix that, none of these arguments matter they will lose everything in 2022 if they don't do something about voting rights by the end of this year that falls squarely on the shoulders of the democrats who are holding up on the fill buster in the senate. >> jason johnson, that might be the last word. thank you for spending time with us today claire will be joining us in the next hour. president biden getting his third shot in the arm today, literally, the vaccine, addressing the continued damage the unvaccinated are doing to themselves and the country that story is next
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dr. shah tweeted this. even vermont, our most vaccinated state, with 69% fully vaccinated, would rank 15th in the world. in fact, 17 states still have not vaccinated even half of their residents. let's bring into our conversation, dr. vin gupta, a pulmonologist and public health policy expert. dr. gupta, what do we do >> nicole, good afternoon. i think it's important to recognize that chile, a lot of these other countries high up on the list, canada, the united kingdom, they have universal healthcare coverage and one of the key findings here, nicole, for those that are unvaccinated is that they're uninsured. i've spoken to many of these uninsured individuals that are young, scared, and yes, that means they're vaccine hesitant and we're all frustrated with the fact that those individuals exist and if we do not bring them into a healthcare system they feel estranged to, we're not going to get rid of this problem. we have to bring them in we have to make durable healthcare access possible for
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everybody regardless if you're young or old number one and number two, we have to make sure they're engaged maybe that's office hours, providing education sessions that are mandated, not necessarily mandating the vaccine, but i've seen these work with my own two eyes and i think that's where we have to head for medium term and future term success >> let me show you something that pfizer is saying about the timeline for vaccines for children under 12 years old. >> we were all given numerous, numerous covid tests i mean, so many. friday results turned out to be false positives and everyone is safe healthy. and covid-free >> so, that was "the view. we can share with our viewers, good news, they're all safe, some false positives but i want to talk about vaccines in kids because i have some reporting from the white house that i want to ask you about on the other side this is pfizer's ceo on data for
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5 to 11-year-olds i t >> i think we are going to submit this data pretty soon it's a question of days, not weeks. if they approve it, we will be ready with our manufacturing to provide this new formulation of the vaccine because the vaccine that the kids will receive, which is 5 to 11, it is a different formulation. it is almost -- not almost, it's one-third of the dose that we are giving to the rest of the population >> so, dr. gupta, it seems that the people most likely to vaccinate their kids between 5 and 11, and i could be proven wrong, would be people who themselves as adults in the household are vaccinated do you worry that we're heading down a track of really becoming totally parallel you know, we have vaccinated adults with their vaccinated children going to schools that happen to be in places with more mask mandates and we have this other track where for a variety of reasons, either being on the outside of the healthcare system or hostage to disinformation or
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political tribe, the parents aren't vaccinated, they don't seem likely to vaccinate their kids kids where does that lead us? >> well, nicole, i suppose that's possible but there's going to be more of a pressure on school districts across the country to mandate the covid-19 vaccine than there will be for employers necessarily, especially small size to medium size employers to mandate the vaccine for their work staff so i think you could see a situation where, yes, parents may not ascent to the vaccine because they don't have to because their employers decided to test the unvaccinated every other week, for example, but that children in those same geographies are mandated to get the vaccine. i suspect that's going to be a reality in many instances but yes, of course, we will see this parallel distance play out and we have to be prepared for that. >> dr. gupta, what do you think when you see mitch mcconnell and president biden who can't seem to agree on anything on the legislative agenda this week both getting their boosters on
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the same day does that inspire some confidence that people will model that behavior? >> well, you know, i will say this mass communication is only so effective. it's great to see that bipartisan comity. we need more of it what i will say in this -- and this goes back to the first point here, direct engagement. we need more of that to convince those that are unvaccinated to get vaccinated >> god bless you and your patience dr. vin gupta, thank you so much for spending time with us. the next hour of "deadline white house" stas rtafter a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started no sugar. no pizza. no foods you love. stressed? no stress. exercise. but no days off! easy, no? no. no. no. no. but with freestyle libre 14 day, you can take the mystery out of your diabetes. now you know. sir, do you know what you want to order? yes. freestyle libre 14 day. try it for free.
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from the outset, there were three things that i was told that we would look to manipulate
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intelligence on and bend the truth about, and i told them up front that i wasn't going to do it >> what were the three things? >> the three things were russian disinformation as it related to the president. the second was the southwest border and the third was white supremacy. those were three issues that i was -- there was intense pressure to try to take intelligence and fit a political narrative. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. it is one of the throughlines of the trump presidency, a multiyear effort led by the disgraced ex-president himself to weaponize the institutions of the federal government to trump's advantage. among the people sounding the alarm about the rot inside the government and how trump allies pressured civil servants to bend the truth to fit political talking points and political disinformation for trump, the man you heard from there, brian murphy, a long-time law enforcement official who once led the dhs intelligence effort. he left the department on friday after more than two decades in
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public service and he is just now speaking out he filed a whistle-blower complaint last year alleging that he was repeatedly told by former homeland security kirstjen nielsen, acting secretary chad wolf, and others to downplay, modify or even censor intelligence on multiple issues, russia, the border, even wh white supremacy. the reports would be unflattering for then president trump. murphy describes a dhs where, quote, it was all about politics, where he felt intense pressure to fit narratives pushed by trump. on the issue of white supremacy which is part of what the biden dhs names as the top threat facing the homeland, murphy says that discussing it as a national security problem became a, quote, third rail. ever since trump defended the white nationalists who marched in charlottesville a spokesperson for dhs denied the claims and as the disgraced
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ex-president continues to lead this version of the republican party and plots a comeback in 2024, murphy has this dire warning about what a second trump term would mean for the intelligence community and the country. >> i think it would be a disaster i think he has denigrated, he's put out the intelligence community. he's -- puts out disinformation, and that's an existential threat to democracy, and he is one of the best at putting it out and hurting this country >> former president's politicization and decimation of the intelligence product is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. former senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill is back. also joining us, frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, now an msnbc national security analyst and host of "the bureau" podcast and carol leonnig is here, "washington post" national investigative reporter, msnbc
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contributor and coauthor of "i alone can fix it." carol, i start with you. i feel like this is more than an iceberg. a lot of this was public facing and some of it reported by you and your colleagues in the "post" and in other news outlets but this is the full monty this is, hell yes, we were asked to lie about the intelligence product when it came to russia, the border and immigration, and white supremacy. wow. >> wow indeed. i have to say that a lot of this, in some respects, as you perfectly described, feels really familiar, not only because of the reporting in the realtime but also reporting that we did later for our book, phil rucker and i, but i will say the wow factor is the trifecta you know, these three items we were instructed very explicitly to doctor, to jimmy, because it would be, quote, unquote, according to brian murphy, embarrassing to the president. it is sort of striking to me,
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too, nicole, how frequently it's almost like a little bit of whack-a-mole and i don't mean this in a joking way, but how many times you have people popping up who said, yeah, this happened to me and also, i was told to doctor reports. and also, we were also not allowed to say anything about russia you know, it reminds me of the head of the national counterterrorism center, in our book, we learned that he basically was told, look, we know china and iran are really not that big a threat. russia is the one that's really trying to interfere in the second presidential election, but let's not really emphasize that let's not lead with that bill had his hand, basically, forgive me, his head handed to him by house speaker nancy pelosi she had been briefed on the real intelligence she told him in the summer of 2020, are you kidding me i know what is really happening. why do you keep bringing up china and iran but yet again, just like brian murphy, another wing, another
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whack-a-mole, another wing of the u.s. government was being told, yeah, don't tell the whole truth. just tell this other part and let's downplay russia. let's downplay white supremacy and these other major risks to our country. >> yeah, and let's do the opposite let's play them up each one at a time and really focus on them in a substantive way as only the three of you can do. frank, we know so much about what was public facing about this desire to downplay the threat from russia we know less about what was happening behind the scenes, and that is always the value of a whistle-blower but if you watch how whistle-blowers were treated, i mean, i think the ex-president either tried to or successfully outed the whistle-blower involved in the first impeachment. i want to read from the whistle-blower complaint itself. in mid-may 2020, mr. wolf instructed mr. murphy to cease providing intelligence assessments on the threat of russian interference in the
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united states. and instead, start reporting on interference activities by china and iran mr. wolf stated that these instructions specifically originated from white house national security advisor robert o'brian. murphy informed wolf he would not comply with these instructions as doing so would put the country in substantial and specific danger. it is rarely, frank figliuzzi, laid out so plainly that what the trump administration did was something that they knowingly put the country in substantial and specific danger. but again, firsthand insider testimony that that's precisely what they did. >> you know, nicole, i know brian murphy i've spoken with him a number of times, and i know him to be truly motivated by one thing, and that is the desire to maintain our democracy and national security. we need more brian murphys in public service and for those i see right now on social media who say, well, we're really going to talk --
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spend energy on this kind of arcane intelligence community problem? let me try and connect the dots here and why everyone should care about what brian murphy is saying and everyone should care about the intelligence community. this isn't just about suppressing intelligence that's one half of the equation is from the white house, being told, don't report on this the other half of the equation is please report more on this over here like it's a big threat that we all should be pulling our hair out over. so there's deceit in both of those elements let me bring this closer to home for folks. why does that matter the department of homeland security has a major partnership with local, county, and state law enforcement, so when we hear from brian, for example, that they were not to report on the growing threat of violent white supremacy, guess what? that means that your local county and state police agencies who rely on dhs for that kind of
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global reporting, aren't prepping, aren't developing sources, aren't preparing their police on the street to deal with armed white supremacists, white nationalists they aren't getting that information like they should that's about as local as it gets, and then when you deceive the entire intelligence community about the threat posed by an entire country, you're really impacting national security i've become a so-called one issue voter and i've never cared about politics in my entire career what's my one issue now when i consider a candidate does this person pose a threat to our national security, yes or no if i can't get over that first box and check that box, i don't go into any other issues i don't need to. that's how important this is >> claire, i think the truth emerges. i mean, i think that's a bob woodward-ism, but the picture that comes out is worse than i think what we all lived through, and on white supremacy
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specifically, what the whistle-blower complaint alleges is that the government had to bend around donald trump's world view after he defended good people on both sides of a kkk rally in charlottesville let me show you some of what brian murphy said on cnn earlier today. >> he completed the homeland threat assessment in march of 2020, and it doesn't go out for months and the reason for that is, ken cuccinelli and chad wolf and others consistently wanted the -- several areas changed one was on the white supremacy part and the other was on the russian disinformation >> did they explain why they thought that made president trump look bad >> cuccinelli told me that, you know, because of the president's statement in charlottesville, and then more as the spring and summer of 2020 went along, as it related to the murder of george floyd and other things, you know, in that time era, that it would make the president look bad. i mean, that's where -- were his
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exact words. >> we know this was a big threat white supremacy, anti-government extremism. we saw some of the fruits of that on january 6th during the insurrection do you think this denialism affected preparedness for january 6 santa barbara? >> absolutely. >> it's been one of the questions hanging over the hearings we've seen and here's someone from the inside saying donald trump's view about white supremacy and his defense of the proud boys and the protesters in charlottesville, the white supremacists, infected the government's ability to prepare and protect on january 6th wow. >> i think most of us, when we watched what happened at charlottesville, and all of a sudden we had white men with tiki torches in khaki pants and polo shirts chanting the kind of hate that used to make people wear hoods to hide who they
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were they were doing it in plain view they were proud of their white supremacy. they were proud of being both anti-semitic and racist. and it was shocking to us, and so what i want to emphasize to you today is at that moment, there were a bunch of us that were on homeland security. i was the ranking member on homeland security, going to ron johnson, one of trump's major handmaidens in the senate. he was busy talking about hillary's emails and we had tiki torches in charlottesville, and he would not allow us to have the kind of oversight hearings that maybe would have given some of these people in the intelligence community a chance under oath to really give us an idea of how bad it was, how far they were willing to go, and there's no question that if you talk to law enforcement, federal law enforcement, that right now, in this country, we spend a lot
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of time letting the tsa go through our suitcases and check out my, you know, metal knee because of foreign terrorists, and they have completely dropped the ball on domestic terrorists, and that's why they're trying to gouge police officers' eyes out with flag poles on january 6th because we were not prepared >> claire, let me press on this. to take the foreign terrorism analogy further, because it seems that that is the point he's making about the intelligence product i mean, our entire posture toward countries that created a permission structure for foreign terrorists to flourish changed i mean, we considered them enemies of the state one of the two political parties creates a permission structure for this terrorist threat to flourish what do we do about that >> well, and that's what's so frightening to me. there's a dark underbelly to what donald trump has done to this country, and we can spend a lot of time talking about the lying. we can spend a lot of time
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talking about him trying to dismantle the democracy. but the ugliest underbelly is the racist part of this. it's, you know, really speaking quiet part out loud. when he said there were good people on both sides, when one side was chanting the hate they were chanting against fellow americans, that is really when i realized, and i think a lot of people realized, this guy had no redeeming qualities whatsoever none >> carol, i want to pull this thread that frank has identified a little and this idea that it's not just the suppression of actual intelligence, but propping up of bogus narratives and story lines, making things up from whole cloth, this is also comes up over and over again in the actual whistle-blower complaint. this is another passage from the complaint. mr. murphy was instructed by mr. wolf and/or mr. cuccinelli, the top of dhs, to modify
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intelligence assessments to ensure they matched up with the public comments by president trump on the subject of antifa and anarchist groups this, again, began public facing and testimony on capitol hill from christopher wray, who was pressed about this and he said, yeah, no, not so much they do not represent the biggest threat by far, the biggest bucket is domestic violent extremists and by far the most prevalent ideology is white supremacist. what do we do to make sure that every -- i mean, this went to the top of dhs it went through the intelligence product. are we sure they're all gone >> well, i think what we learned in 2021 in spades, unfortunately, and it was true throughout the trump presidency, but what we learned was that there were very senior people in his cabinet willing to do his bidding, unable to resist the bullying that he was imposing on their careers, on their professional reputations, and i
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guess on their daily sort of happiness. i don't understand why chad wolf and cuccinelli were willing to put themselves in this kind of ethical dilemma of pushing false products, but i know that it happened across the administration, and what's interesting about this moment, nicole, is as brought to life by brian murphy, is that the one person who's telling the truth, who refuses to testify to some falsehood, that white supremacists aren't one of the number one threats to the homeland, is the guy who is in forever peril of losing his job. you know, chris wray, the fbi director, was basically privately and publicly threatened by the president on an almost weekly basis, like you're gone. and every fbi agent knew that. and to frank's really good point, there are two sides to this deceit, because if you have
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someone trying to keep your government, you know, apparatus from revealing what's a threat, and you also have them propping up a false threat, january 6th, to an earlier questioner's comment, becomes all the more completely -- almost foreshadowed because you are stopping your local law enforcement and your federal law enforcement from being willing to see what's in front of their face because it's not okay to say it. >> yeah, i mean, frank, it becomes preordained and i think you could say the permission structure granted to white supremacists and the growing acceptance of violence as acceptable on the right and according to polls, certainly put all those preconditions in place. i wonder if you can speak to, frank, how much -- how far ahead they got so, four years under the ex-president who corrupted the intelligence product, the homeland, dhs, this
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whistle-blower complaint is about dhs. we've heard and seen less from the cia and the -- and foreign intelligence, but how much of a head start does that give people who wish to do us harm, or can a new president and new administration purge any corruption or any people distorting the intelligence product? >> great question. look, the very simple place to look for what four years of this results in is january 6th. you've already alluded to it the lack of a strong posture, intelligence collection source development, et cetera, with regard to the domestic threat and particularly lethal white supremacy ideology really helped get us to the point where we were caught figuratively with our pants down on january 6th. now, let's move across the globe and think of it in a more larger sense. you know, the president put people in that dni position. the dni position is the gatekeeper and controller of
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intelligence, and you remember the adage, knowledge is power. well, what we learned during the administration is really a more true statement, which is the control of knowledge is power. and so, he who controls knowledge is going to actually control the truth and in an age of disinformation where we're constantly battling conspiracy theories about covid vaccines and you name it, imagine an environment where perhaps the president doesn't want any bad news reported or even collected about north korea's capability to deliver a nuclear missile doesn't want to hear that vladimir putin had a meeting where he talked about moving into the ukraine, doesn't want it reported. doesn't even want collection on it that's where the dni is so important, same for the entire community, the next six months, we're all focused and rowing in this direction, we need information on ukraine and putin. what if the president said, don't collect it in the first place? that's the kind of damage that's done that's how far behind the curve we may be right now. >> that's a terrifying thought
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frank figliuzzi, claire mccaskill, thank you for sticking around over the top of two hours. carol leonnig, thank you for your great reporting and starting us off this hour. when we come back, new reporting shows that virtually every reliably blue state has a higher vaccination rate than nearly every red state it's a clear-cut sign of the stunning effect that partisanship continues to have in our country's ability to fight covid. we'll have more on that reporting in a minute. plus, it's a critical week for president biden's agenda and at this hour, house democrats are meeting to figure out how to proceed we'll have the latest from capitol hill and a major about-face from one liz cheney who now says she was wrong to ever oppose same-sex marriage. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes.
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still resistant to getting a covid vaccine, there's stunning new reporting in "the new york times" that shows a growing partisan divide fueling some of that resistance. according to the "times," david lee, that divide is so large that almost every reliably blue state a now has a higher vaccination rate than almost every reliably red state even more shocking the consequences for deaths from covid in areas that supported the disgraced ex-president from that "times" reporting, in counties where donald trump received at least 70% of the vote, the coronavirus has killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of june that's according to charles, a healthcare analyst in countries where trump won less than 32% of the vote, the number is about 10 out of every
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100,000. let's bring into our conversation the aforementioned david leonhart also joining us, msnbc medical contributor dr. bhadelia david, you're writing some of the best in some cases reassuring, in other cases shocking stuff about where we are with covid right now explain the political divide >> thank you, nicole well, we've had a political divide on covid for a long time. i mean, i drove across the country in january and left blue suburbs and found myself in the midst of red areas and was shocked by how little mask-wearing there was there but earlier, there wasn't this big divide in terms of the effect masks do help, but their effect is limited, and the blue parts of america are the parts where we tend to have our busiest airports and our most international travel and so blue
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america was actually hit harder by covid, the easiest way to see that is new york originally but the vaccines are so powerful that they have changed the story, and we now see these massive vaccination gaps i mean, the suburbs of san francisco and new york, the madison, wisconsin, the entire state of maine now have vaccination rates of 80% of eligibility people, and you look at red communities, very conservative, rural communities across the country, and you see vaccination rates among the eligible below 40% and it's creating this tragic situation in which we are having many, many unnecessary covid deaths and they are disproportionately, highly disproportionately, in red america. >> you know, dr. bhadelia, like so many things that we cover, i kept thinking there would be a trip wire and that trip wire would be kids in the icu or pregnant women dying and it turns out we do not live in a country with any trip wires when it comes to the tragedy
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that we're dealing with and i want to read some reporting from the "washington post." matthew, pulmonologist and director of palliative care at beaumont health in southeastern michigan wrote this on facebook. when a well-regarded intensive care unit nurse told him during a recent shift that the wife of an unvaccinated covid patient had berated her when she informed the woman of her husband's deteriorating condition, he reached his breaking point when he got home that evening, he made himself a sandwich and opened facebook, still sporting his black crubs, he began to vent he wrote about a critically ill patient who disputed his covid-19 diagnosis another threatened to call his lawyer if he wasn't given ivermectin, an anti-parasite drug that is not approved for treating covid the third, he wrote, told the doctor they would rather die than take the vaccine. one demanded a different doctor. i don't believe you, he told the physician. what can you do for patients like that as a doctor?
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>> yeah, nicole, seven years ago, i was in -- i was treating patients in ebola treatment units in sierra leone, and a couple times i would have patients not willing to take treatment, not believing they had ebola, thinking the whole thing was a hoax, and that's a country with fewer resources, much lower health literacy, but they all had this very bloody civil war about ten years before that outbreaks tend to take on the shape of the societies that they affect and right now, what's happening with covid is really a symptom of the larger pathologies that are going on in the u.s. you know, we can take care of the patients the best we can, but one of the other points that david makes in his insightful article is that this is a larger move towards anti-science, and it has secondary impact, right, because what's happening is if you discredit your doctors and your scientists and your government officials, then what you're saying is, believe me let me give you this other drug that i think works
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it's creating a vacuum by completely having the population lose trust in the credible sources you are allowing all the snake oil salesmen to take over and that's what we're really seeing >> david, you know what's amazing to me the is there has not been a vacuum. there's been so much information from doctors and traditionally trusted sources since the beginning, and other than the first three weeks, we were not sure if masks helped, and then they decided they did, and on the phasing of boosters, the advice has by and large been life-saving, as evidenced by your trip through the country and the people following the advice living and more people not following the advice dying i wonder if sort of based on all your reporting about the delta variant and all your reporting about the regional and political breakdown, where you think we're heading. >> i think, figuring out why this has happened is really difficult. i mean, it's clearly related to
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a larger breakdown in trust in society. you know, all kinds of ways. we see that less educated americans, the typical way social scientists draw the line is people who do and don't have a college degree less educated americans are just faring worse they're less likely to be married, more likely to drink more than is healthy, more likely to be addicted to drugs there's this phrase, deaths of despair, and i think of this, actually, as sort of a cousin of that, which is, life has become sufficiently difficult and there's a sufficient level of cynicism for a lot of americans that they are behaving in ways that are actually self-defeating, and i think what's -- we're in this emergency now. we're in this crisis and so i recognize that a lot of people in red america aren't going to listen to "the new york times" and they're not going to listen to dr. fauci. the one thing i would say is, i think it's important to reflect for a minute on the notion that you're being snookered donald trump has taken the
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vaccine. most of the people on conservative cable tv who are raising questions about it, they've taken the vaccine. the republican governors who are playing footsie to try to say whether the vaccine's good or not, they've taken the vaccine >> right >> so, i guess i would say to people who are living in red america, the people who are feeding your cynicism, they have taken the vaccine. and that might be the strongest message of all about what's actually good for you in this situation. >> well, and dr. bhadelia, to sharpen the message, the ones that didn't dropped dead i think five conservative radio hosts died of covid and some of them had family members pleading with their loved ones' listeners to take the vaccine. do you think, though, that, you know, if we had to appoint where the pfizer vaccine is approved for kids, do you think we just kind of stagger through this pandemic with our divisions just hardening with every new innovation it's only accepted and trust trusted and taken advantage of by people that trusted the last vaccine.
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with boosters and kids, we should be entering new phases of rolling out more life-saving medicine to more people, and yet we're in this hardened divide. >> you know, i want to be optimistic, but my concern is, as you recovered earlier, is that i think the parents who got vaccinated will vaccinate their children, and we will hobble through with, unfortunately, more people getting infected who didn't get vaccinated, and people who got vaccinated, vaccinating their kids and having us reach some sort of level of population immunity but one point you made is so critical it's not just about the now. the purr varies of disinformation, those who are using this to gain political points, you're seeing this sort of anti-science spread to other vaccines there's a conversation now about whether measle, mumps and rubella vaccines should be required in schools, which it is we achieved herd immunity in all those different diseases because of these vaccines and the cynicism that's being fed to a
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large segment of the population may then lead to erosion in all those well-established vaccines, let alone future vaccines or upgrades that might be down the road >> that's absolutely terrifying. david, i enjoy so much all your reporting on this. thank you for spending time with us doctor, thank you for making sense of it all for us >> thank you, nicole when we come back, breaking news from capitol hill where democrats are huddling at this hour and what is a very high-stakes week with president biden's domestic agenda very much hanging in the balance. we'll have a live report on that meeting as it getsnd uer way after a quick break. don't go anywhere.
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house democrats are at this hour meeting behind closed doors, a source telling nbc news as the house gears up for a critical week for the president's agenda, moving toward votes related to government funding, the debt limit, infrastructure, and some of the president's promised social programs. it is a week house speaker nancy pelosi in a letter to colleagues this weekend warned would be one of intensity, which our own leigh ann caldwell describes as the understatement of the year punchbowl news says, it's a huge week the biggest so far in the 117th congress it's fair to say what happens the next couple weeks will go a long way toward determining the kind of strength of the hand that democrats have at keeping the house or senate next year. joining our coverage from outside the house democrats meeting is nbc news capitol hill
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correspondent leigh ann caldwell and tim miller, writer at large for the bulwark and an msnbc contributor. leigh ann, just take me inside both the substance of what's being discussed and the tension and the mood up there. >> reporter: so, nicole, the mood is palpable in the sense that there is a lot of stress and anxiety but also excitement. so, the members are walking in behind me, going into this closed doors to really get a status update of what happened after a weekend of negotiations between speaker pelosi, the white house, senate democratic leader schumer, and various members of the democratic caucus josh gottheimer walked by me and i said, what's going to happen he said, we're going to get it done so, there seems to be an incentive for both sides, both progressives and moderates, to
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pass both pieces of legislation, but the problem is how do they get there and it seems like there's not -- the lack of trust is, of course, between moderates and progressives, but it's mostly between the house and the senate, and that's where senator joe manchin and kyrsten sinema come in because house progressives, they don't just want a commitment from their house moderates, their colleagues in the house. they need a commitment from people like senator manchin and kyrsten sinema and something that they haven't been able to get yet pramila, leader of the progressive caucus, just spoke with some reporters a few seconds ago and she said she spoke with senator sinema today but she has not yet spoken with senator manchin, a key person. and so, i spoke with senator manchin earlier today. there's all these conversations that are happening, but i asked him if he was willing to give a commitment to progressives that he would support this reconciliation bill even though he wants to keep negotiating it.
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he told me he doesn't give a commitment to anyone except for the president, and he said that he has concerns with the bill and how it stands, including creating an entitlement mentality, and so that gives you a lot of indication of where senator manchin's head is at he doesn't seem like he's even close to being on board at this moment and these progressives say, look, we need a commitment now we need an ironclad framework. we would prefer a vote on that, the mega bill, before a vote on the bipartisan bill, and speaker pelosi has three days to figure all of this out, nicole. >> tim, look, i'm not going to go down the path of covering this as any sort of disarray when you are a majority party and you have joe manchin and the progressives, you have a lot of ground to cover. but what's fascinating is that it wasn't always this way. the other party used to come to the table and have opinions and be available for pieces of a
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president's agenda, and what's amazing is that the republicans are just awol. their bet is that ted cruz asking inane, stupid questions at a voting rights hearing and, you know, they're sort of looking the other way when voter suppression bills pass through the states, that doing nothing is enough. do you think that's right? >> well, no, of course it's not right, nicole. there are two things that are happening here that are just bewildering. maybe sometimes i get to, since i'm not in d.c. anymore, i have the clarity of looking at this with the california arks but everybody seems to have capitol hill brain on this like, every single republican has convinced themselves that, you know, stopping joe biden's agenda is more important than any sort of policy outcome that may or may not help americans. it would be one thing if the republicans in the house said, you know, we have these three specific critiques about the infrastructure bill. we think it spends too much on a, we would like to see more
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spent on b they're not doing any of that. they're not engaging in the policy at all. this is just all about the game of politics and getting a win. and so a bill that in the senate, you know, got double-digit republican votes, nancy pelosi can't count on those votes, any sort of votes in the house, which has a much bigger republican caucus because mccarthy's trying to line everybody up because they see this as a big win. it's all part of a big game. so i have a similar frustration with what is happening with the house progressive caucus on this i just don't understand the strategy that they have in play. they have enough votes to pass the infrastructure bill. infrastructure bill has already passed the senate, it's in joe biden's priority, we've been talking about infrastructure for five years, this could be a big win. it's going to help people and our economy. just vote for it and move on to the reconciliation bill.
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they have some imagination that they have leverage over joe manchin where as far as joe manchin is concerned, his state voted 70% for donald trump the congresswoman jayapal doesn't have any leverage over joe manchin. it would help him politically to do what the republicans are doing and stand in the way and do nothing but he's already abo acted in good faith and voted for the infrastructure bill. i think the republican nihilism has put the democrats in this situation but they need to live in reality and hopefully just get this done because they have enough votes to do it. >> leigh ann, i want you to jump in are we wrong are there any republicans working in a constructive way on any of the president's agenda that you're covering this week >> reporter: no. the republicans are done legislating. they -- they worked on the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the senate, and that's pretty much what they are going to get done and that's all they're going to participate in.
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there's no -- the house republicans weren't a part of that process, and they decent plan to be a part of that process, and very few of them are even expected to vote for that bipartisan infrastructure bill, even though 19 republicans voted on it in the senate. so, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, he says that he won't provide any votes to suspend the debt limit the only thing he's willing to do is to fund the government, but it has to be under his conditions of a clean government funding bill that includes disaster aid and that is the extent of what republicans are contributing at this point >> nbc's leigh ann caldwell, thank you so much for being there and having all of this realtime reporting for us. i'm really grateful to pull you out and get to talk to you about it thank you. tim miller is sticking around when we come back, the latest republican to evolve, as they say, on the issue of same-sex marriage, liz cheney now says she was wrong to ever oppose it, despite having a gay, married
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sister that story is next
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has kids even their father, former vice president dick cheney, conservative's conservative, at least at the time, supported same-sex marriage. liz cheney's belief in what she called the traditional definition of marriage made for a very public rift within her own family but last night on "60 minutes," liz cheney was asked about that moment in time. >> i was wrong i was wrong. i love my sister very much i love her family very much. and i was wrong. it's a very personal issue and very personal for my family. i believe that my dad was right, and my sister and i have had that conversation. >> tim, what do you think? >> look, i was pretty mad at her at the time, to be honest with you. >> me too. >> i was working in republican
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politics rob portman had come out at that point for gay marriage so it wasn't so early. it was early would have been a political risk but i thought that that was a really craven move, and when i watched the "60 minutes" clip last night, the main thing that i took away was this was a person and holding donald trump accountable. so a person that has already gone down the path that so many republicans are doing right now which is sacrificing, in order for their own political career, she did that, it backfired it, she regrets it, she's growing from it, she's not going to do
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it again and she's showing a lot of resolve you don't have to instantly forgive her for everything, that type of personal growth is in pretty short supply in public life so it's good to see i don't think she voted for the equality act when it came up she has distance to travel in her values and believes are now. >> yeah, that's true this has been true on voting rights too, by the way on some of the voting rights bills she's not voted with democrats. john lewis and a couple of others i was interested in a clip you didn't show from "60 minutes," she brought up she wasn't asked about trans issues she talked to a young trans woman who didn't feel safe in wyoming and how her views on gay marriage need to expand to that. that we need to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to
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live a life of meaning and i thought that was interesting that she volunteered that. i think that that spoke to the fact that this is a person that is revisiting all of that. it's not a perfect person but -- >> perfect isn't on the menu. >> but that's important. >> it is important. >> we need to give people the room for that. >> their space. >> or we're going to end up with all insurrectionists. >> i didn't air that part. it is important. if you will come back the same time tomorrow, we'll play it tomorrow and we'll expand that conversation you're right part of it is on us. we're so quick to whack a mole if someone moves an inch and not a mile but we should celebrate the inch behind every liz cheney is the alleged sex trafficker matt gaetz was out there campaigning for. tim miller, thank you. a quick break for us we'll be right back. , on the inside. it's true, if you have diabetes, you know high blood sugar is the root of the problem.
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fine, no one leaves the table until your finished. fine, we'll sleep here. ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. the man who tried to kill president ronald regan outside a washington hotel in 1981 may soon be completely untethered to the criminal justice system. press secretary james brady was paralyzed and two law enforcement officers were injured. later the jury found john hinckley jr. not guilty by reason of insanity for the last five years he's been allowed to live with his mother now 30 years later a judge agreed to lift all remaining court ordered restrictions as
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long as he stays mentally stable and continues to obey conditions about who he's allowed to contact. the judge made it clear, quote, if he hadn't tried to kill the president he would have been unconditionally released a long, long time ago. we will be right back. what happens when we welcome change? we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change--
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and she's wearing my robe. mom: ahem ahem ahem we're out. working at recology is more than a job for jesus. it's a family tradition. jesus took over his dad's roue when he retired after 47 year. now he's showing a new generation what recology is all about. as an employee-owned company, recology provides good-paying local jobs for san franciscans. we're proud to have built the city's recycling system
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from the ground up, helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america. let's keep making a differene together. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now. >> i am ari melber and we begin with breaking news on the biden agenda at this moment we can report speaker pelosi is huddling with house emocrats this is a closed door meeting as democrats have really shifted from projecting confidence about their agenda here and getting a pass to signs of concern that biden's plans for domestic spending now hang in the balance. joe biden is making historic push to really reshape the safety net we've covered the outlines of at

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