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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  September 7, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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anniversary of the september 11th terror attacks and the ongoing impacts from the devastating storms. the president will be in new york and new jersey today surveying the damage and certainly warning about the dangers of climate change. thank you all for getting up way too early with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, september 7th. we are following a number of quickly developing stories this morning, including the united states now topping 40 million covid cases since the start of the pandemic, with health experts keeping a close eye on the impact of labor day weekend travel. plus the taliban claims to have captured the last part of afghanistan holding out against their rule. it comes as secretary of state
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antony blinken visits qatar. the latest on the still growing death toll from last week's hurricane ida as president biden will visit new york and new jersey today. and expanded unemployment benefits have expired for millions of americans. what does it mean for the economic recovery? we'll look into that, but we begin this morning with a consequential week for democrats as congress returns to washington this week. democrats will begin the process of the most significant expansion of this country's social safety net in over half a century. "the new york times" reports this morning that congressional committees are set to meet this week to devise legislation that would touch virtually every american's life from conception to age to imfirmty. the proposed legislation, a
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cradle to grave waving of a social safety net frayed by decades of expanding income inequality, stagnating wealth and depleted governmental resources capped by the worst public health crisis in a century. the pandemic loosened the reins on federal spending prompting both parties to support showering the economy with aid. it also uncorked decades desires like expanding medicare coverage or paid family leave that democrats contend to be necessities as the country lived through the coronavirus crisis. democrats say they will finance their spendings with proposed tax increases on corporations, which has incited an effort by big big groups to kill the idea.
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to critics, the legislation represents a fundamental up ending of governments and a shift towards social democracy. with it they worry would come european style unemployment and depressed economic dinahism. the times notes that passage of the bill which could spend 3.5 trillion over the next decade is anything but certain but president biden who has staked much of his domestic legacy on the measure's enactment will need the vote of every single democrat in the senate and virtually everyone in the house to secure it. can he get that? >> and that's the question we should ask jonathan lemire. let's bring in ap's white house correspondent reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. also the new executive editor and senior vice president for
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the associated press and i think really most importantly jonathan lemire's boss, thank god there's one person keeping him in line. >> this is the kind of oversight he needs. i need to show up at 6:00 a.m. >> exactly. i know he's so happy you're here to see how he does. jonathan, let's begin the audition in front of your boss. so jonathan wiseman of "the new york times" laid it out well this morning in describing just what's at stake. he said, as mika said also, cradle to grave reweaving of a social safety net frayed by decades of expanding income inequality. so much is on the line. you look at this and it really does. it's in line with the sweeping nature of fdr's new deal and lbj's great society. here we have joe biden in reach of passing legislation that will
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easily be the most dramatic expansion of the social safety net since lbj's great society. and all he needs are democrats to vote for it. here we are the day after labor day. there's been a lot of maneuvering this summer. what's it look like? will the democrats be able to stick together and make -- again, let me underline this for people who may not have been following over the summer. democrats don't need a single republican vote to make this happen. are they any closer to making history here? >> i'll start by noting julie's presence, this is the most nervous i've ever been on this tv show. >> the way i like it. >> i should take the moment to publically congratulate julie on her new job as executive editor at the ap, we are thrilled for that. as for your question, this is a big moment for the president.
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from the early days of the administration, really embraced the comparisons to lbj or fdr, to go big. he said i'm a big government democrat i believe government can help people. this is a moment as the nation battles the pandemic that he and his advisers feel they can rewrite the role the government plays with citizens' lives and particularly those who are less fortunate to help them get a hand up. but, though, this should be, you'd think, easy, quote, to get all democrats in line, it's not going to be. the margins here are so small. just a handful of seats in the house and the senate is that 50/50 tie with vice president harris potentially acting as the tie breaking vote. we just heard the other day one of those moderate senators, joe manchin from west virginia suggesting they push pause on the idea of that $3.5 trillion bill, the one just described there in the times piece because
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he has concerns about the economy being overheated. the government is playing too big a role. he said that before friday's disappointing jobs report so they may cast a new light on what he thinks. but that show cases the struggle the administration is going to have, they have to satisfy moderates like manchin and kyrsten sinema. but also progressives, those in the house that want to go bigger. can any of those democrats be the vote that defeats the signature proposal, the signature agenda of a democratic president? that's a tall order but some senators that's the question they have to make. they have to ask themselves do they cast their vote to pass this to potentially risk taking heat from more conservative voters back home? can a manchin sell it in west virginia whatever the state may be, it's going to be a thin line
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for the president to walk. >> julie, i wonder sometimes if we -- i'm not talking about you, of course, i'll take all the blame myself. i wonder sometimes if we in the media don't play close enough attention to how big this bill is, how sweeping this bill is, how historic this bill is. i know there's coverage but there's not been a lot of in depth reporting and debating and fighting back and forth, at least on this show, about what's at stake here. it is historic. i remember hearing biden's speech back in april and was shocked by how sweeping it was for this supposed moderate guy from delaware. but again, this will reverse 40 years of reagan-ism just like ronald reagan reversed 45 years of roosevelt's new deal. i'm wondering if we're going to get more into that as we move
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forward and there's going to be more heated debate going into the fall because of the -- just the sheer size and scope of this and how this will fundamentally change americans' relationship with the government. >> i do think it's really important for us to keep casting this legislation in this light. there's been a focus on the top line number on this narrow tight rope that biden has to walk to get the legislation passed but what we are talking about here is a fundamental shift in the social safety net in the country and as you say reversing decades where the government under republican leadership in most cases has been weakening that social safety net and what biden is trying to do is a reversal that would not last just throughout his presidency but would extend well beyond. i think as we look to the politics and the votes, this is going to be tricky for some democrats to vote against, even if they are nervous about the price tag or the democrats who
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want that price tag to be bigger, there are so many democratic priorities, so many things that democrats have wanted for so long with regards to child care, it's a helping working families that are in this bill to defeat it because it doesn't meet all of your needs seems hard to envision, though i will say, every democratic lawmaker, we talked about joe manchin and kyrsten sinema this year, every democratic lawmaker is in that position, any one of them could derail this bill. it gives them power to tweak around the edges. >> we heard about a 50/50 nation, republicans and democrats fighting back and forth, gridlock in washington d.c., the death of bipartisanship. the democrats have found themselves set up in a position now again where even though it is a 50/50 split in the united states senate and the margins are so small in the house, somehow they have found themselves in the a position, as we move into the fall, where
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their fate is in their own hands. >> right. >> and it really is astounding that there are some people in the democratic party that are even suggesting this deal's not going to get done. they're going to have to get a deal done. they're going to have to figure out how to come together as a democratic caucus in the senate and in the house and pass this legislation. maybe it's not $3.5 trillion, maybe joe manchin and kyrsten sinema find a compromise with progressives. but that compromise has to be found. they have no other choice. they have to make history or, of course, there will be no justification for them to run for re-election. >> so some of the other big stories this morning, the death toll continues to climb in the northeast following the devastation by the remnants of hurricane ida. president biden will visit new york and new jersey today after
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approving major disaster declarations in both states green lighting more federal aid. meanwhile, across louisiana and mississippi hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses are still without power. nbc's von hillyard will give us the latest from the gulf coast in a moment. but first, here's nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez with more on the northeast aftermath. >> reporter: as ida's rain pounded new york city, officers frantically tried to reach this flooded basement but when specialized rescue teams got there, it was too late. three people had already drowned. >> this storm has rewritten the map. >> reporter: in a city where affordable housing is hard to come by, the storm's aftermath is raising new questions about whether the northeast is prepared for climate change and whether local officials gave enough warning. >> the water got up to here?
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>> up to the window. >> reporter: in another building, she was trapped inside her basement. >> did you expect this much water? >> never. >> look at this. it's a disaster. >> water was gushing in. >> gushing in, we were locked into the basementment. there was no way out. >> reporter: her son, who was blind, managed to reach through this window and pull her to safety. >> i thought i was going to die. >> reporter: in new york city 13 people died, in new jersey 27, four are still missing including two college students who witnesses say were swept away by rushing water. >> please everybody pray for them. >> reporter: president set to tour manville, new jersey, home after home, basement after basement flooded out. insurance adjusters are expected over the coming days but the clean up is just beginning. >> a lot of memories here? >> yes. >> reporter: karen survived the storm in her home carrying for
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her elderly mother, a quad ra pa lee jik who couldn't be evacuated by boat. >> i look around and i don't know where to start. i don't know. >> reporter: half a million in louisiana are still without power. some communities surrounded by standing water, homes gone. >> there's not a person that's not suffering. >> reporter: katy's home overtaken by floodwaters, furniture tossed to the mud. >> you're drowning and reaching up and saying help me and no one is coming. >> reporter: officials say the total number of destroyed power polls higher than hurricanes katrina, ike, delta and zeta combined. the national guard now operating a floating bridge to one town cut off by floodwaters. >> the mud keeps coming and coming. >> reporter: concerns also
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rising about the most vulnerable. >> no lights, no water, no hot water, no hot meals. >> reporter: over the weekend 600 residents evacuated from eight senior centers after the health department deemed them unfit for ongoing occupancy. >> nobody showed up. nobody. not one person showed up to check on us. >> reporter: the city said five are dead. >> what we found was unacceptable. >> reporter: meanwhile, seven now dead and the state attorney general demanding answers after more than 800 nursing home residents were evacuated to this warehouse and left on cots in floodwaters. >> people shouldn't be treated like that. you should be held accountable. >> reporter: but also, small miracles, chained up and trapped under debris, animal rescuers found this up. bubbles who survived for four days like many here looking for a new home.
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i tell you what, it is so discouraging. you see one weather disaster after another. and if you want to have a debate, mika, with two sides on climate change whether climate change is causing all of this damage, don't invite insurance adjusters on the show because they will tell you that the claims have exploded over the past 20 years, that climate change is undeniable. it's bad and it keeps getting worse. there's a washington post study that came out over the past week that shows that this summer one in three americans, people living in one in three counties in america have been hit by a climate disaster this year. heat wave, 64% of the counties in this country have been hit by heat waves as well. the weather situation is bad and it goes from bad to worse.
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as democrats are looking at that $3.5 trillion bill, obviously i know that they're focussing on climate change but we're going to have to figure out a way not only to continue taking care of it in this country but also we're going to have to get serious with china, with india, with other countries who are the main -- the main polluters on the planet and have got to figure out a way to bring the world to the table. for sure. we're going to move to afghanistan now. the taliban claims to have taken control of the panjshir province. the last area in afghanistan held by resistance forces. witnesses from the area who spoke on the condition of anonymity tell the associated press that thousands of taliban fighters charged into eight districts of the region overnight. but representatives for the resistance forces say the taliban's claim of victory is false.
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insisting they will continue to fight from strategic positions across the area. meanwhile, four more americans were evacuated from afghanistan yesterday. a state department official said the americans were safely removed over land and the taliban, quote, was aware and did not impede their transit. this was the first known case of u.s. citizens being evacuated since the troop withdrawal officially ended last week. the white house says it will continue to work to evacuate all americans who wish to leave afghanistan. the president estimated last week one to 200 u.s. citizens still remain. joining us now nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez from doha, qatar. what can you tell us? >> reporter: for days the state department is vague about what's going on with charter planes being stopped from leaving the
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airport in the north of afghanistan. this morning here in doha secretary of state blinken giving some details on the situation finally. he confirmed there was a small number of americans trying to get on those planes and get out of the country but the problem he said was those americans and other afghans with valid travel documents are mixed in with afghan citizens who do not have the right paperwork. so right now the taliban is not allowing any of those people to leave. the secretary also denying a claim made over the weekend by representative mike mccaul a republican that this was a hostage situation. listen to what the secretary had to say. >> there are groups of people grouped together, some of whom have the appropriate travel documents, an american passport, a green card, a visa and others
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do not. and it's my understanding that the taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document but they have said that those without valid documents at this point can't leave. but because all of these people are grouped together, that's meant that flights have not been allowed to go. we've been able to identify a small number of americans seeking to depart with their families. we have been assured, again, that all american citizens and afghan citizens with valid travel documents will be allowed to leave. it's my understanding that the taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document. we are not aware of anyone being held on an aircraft or any hostage situation. so we have to work through the different requirements and that's exactly what we're doing. >> now, guys, the details here are still pretty vague. but this is what many were
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concerned about. when u.s. troops left afghanistan, the american citizens left behind would be at the mercy of the taliban as to whether they can leave the country and now that the taliban is the government they can say we're not stopping anybody from leaving, they just need to have the right paperwork. the secretary did say the united states is engaging with the taliban on this issue including in the last couple of hours. also this morning we are seeing what appears to be the largest protests yet in kabul since the city fell to the taliban back on august 15th. we're seeing large groups of men and women on the streets together protesting against the taliban. taliban gunmen have been firing in the air trying to disperse those crowds, no reports yet of any injuries. guys? >> raf sanchez, thank you very much. can you imagine the bravery
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of the women protesting, joe? >> it is. it's remarkable and it continues to be an unfolding story that jonathan lemire, obviously the white house is very concerned about and are taking a position with the taliban not trust but verify but pressure and then verify. obviously if you hear conservative commentators, read conservative op-eds listen to conservative members of congress, republicans in congress, they'll attack joe biden and antony blinken for trusting the taliban. but it's not just them that are applying pressure. you've obviously got dozens of countries across the globe applying the pressure and the leverage they seem to be holding over the taliban is the final future of the country. whether the taliban's government is able to survive or not
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financially and obviously that's going to be attached. their credit is going to be attached. money coming to that country is going to be attached to how they act over the next several months. >> we've heard a few threats from the white house as to what they will do if the taliban doesn't cooperate. one is the idea of international recognition we heard the president over the weekend saying they weren't at the time recognizing the taliban as the government there in afghanistan. i think there's some question as to how much the taliban cares about that. but they care about the ability to have -- pay for their government. the finances of the nation certainly at risk here, and pressure being applied from the u.s. but other countries too. we are seeing real -- the u.s. is starting to lean on the taliban here. we heard from the president the other day, an estimates 100 to 200 americans are still in afghanistan, some are getting out but it's a slow process, as just described in that report. a lot of bureaucratic paperwork
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cited for the reason of the delays. and certainly the u.s. said no we don't trust the taliban. we're going to be clear. we don't trust them but we have no choice but to work with them. the secretary of state is in the region, there's talks beyond his comments there. looking to get this and get it done as quickly as possible. but it's going to be time. for americans that's a priority but also our afghan allies who for 20 years worked alongside the u.s. military. >> julie, when i talk to, whether it's reporters or people in the administration, whether it's former members of the cia who spent a lot of time in afghanistan, they all tell me that designation of, quote, american is a very complicated one. people with dual citizenships who have been trying to decide whether to leave their families or go. whether they could bring their families or not, i'll just say
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some people, former members of the agency suggest that some people stayed in afghanistan profiteering off the war and other things and wanting to be on the last flight out and listed a number of reasons. so it's -- it really is not as cut and dry i think as some make it out to be. it's been complicated and as the white house has said, they've given well over a dozen warnings since april that the situation was deteriorating and americans, if they wanted to go home, needed to get out. >> i think complicated is a good way to put it when we get down to this last group of people. this is not as sim pm as saying you're american do you want to get out? yes. put me on a plane. those people in those situations have largely left the country. so you're dealing with people who in some cases are not sure they want to leave. may have reasons to stay that
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are family related, may have business reasons they want to stay. there's some of these americans who have been in the country for a very long time so this is not as simple of a question i think as it was earlier. i think the broader challenge for the biden administration right now is how long can you work with the taliban in a place where the taliban is willing to be something of a partner. the taliban is helping facilitate some of the exits right now. but the taliban has this international question about recognition and also this question about how they govern and as the protests perhaps build in kabul, i think that's what the administration is worried about as well, how the taliban could react there and how it impacts the taliban's willingness to work with other nations to facilitate these final exits. >> no doubt there's going to be protests in afghanistan, even at the height of the war when the taliban was moving -- i remember seeing a poll, something like five, six, seven years ago, that
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the taliban's approval rating in afghanistan was 18%, 19%, 20%. the taliban has never been seen as some -- some heroic force. some liberating force by all the people of afghanistan. so chances are good that civil war is going to continue as it's -- it has been going on for 20 years or so. so it's very good to be back as we go to break. i want to say really good to be back. and there are a few things i wanted to say over the last week or so, and so, my guess is that a lot of you are going to probably disagree with what i have to say because i just haven't heard it much coming out of the halls of congress or from other tv news shows, but here it goes. i'm really proud of what i've seen from my country, from america over the past few weeks. again, i know that sounds disconcerting because over the past several weeks, whether it's been at dinner or whether i've
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met people in the neighborhood, wherever i see people, they're just talking about how bad things are going in this country. but i don't see it that way. you know, i am positive, and i'm positive even though i thought, unlike about 70% of americans, i thought we should have kept some troops in afghanistan. but what i've seen this past month has highlighted both the greatness and the goodness of america and americans. first, let's talk about the greatness. think about this now. and again, we aren't saying this enough. the united states of america did something no other country ever could do or ever would do. we air lifted, 120,000 frightened souls out of afghanistan. and americans saved their lives. as david sanger at "the new york times" noted that's about the population of billings, montana.
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and it was a feat every bit as inspiring as the berlin air lift and it will be a monumental achievement in humanitarian aid. u.s. troops put their lives on the line. and 13 heroes paid the ultimate sacrifice for the tens of thousands of lives they saved. one was nicole gee who cradled a baby in her arms and wrote on her instagram page, i love my job. of course she did. you see, duty, honor and courage are not just words from an old speech, it was the creed that they lived by every day. so too did the c-17 pilot who as david ignatius recounted roared down a run way in a plane
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overloaded with 823 desperate afghan evacuees, double its capacity. and as they were rumbling down that runway, and a nervous co-pilot asked if the packed plane could lift off in that intense heat, the pilot answered, just watch me. it's a moment that took me back to the beginning of our war on terror, when todd beamer whispered the words of let's role in pennsylvania. and as carlos wrote this week, the passengers of that flight quitely voted in the back of the plane where to rush the cockpit and take their own plane down to protect others on the ground. as he writes, they voted on it. they voted, even in that moment of unfathomable fear and
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distress, the passengers took a moment to engage in the great american tradition of popular consultation before deciding to become this war's earliest soldiers. he asks at the end, was there ever any doubt as to the outcome of that ballot? of course there wasn't. as you know. and the stories of the goodness of americans who are now coming together, coming together from the left, from the right progressives, evangelicals, coming together to welcome these afghan refugees to our shores, i have no doubt that despite all of our failings and our flaws, we as a nation will continue stumbling toward the light. just watch us. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "morning joe," 35 past the hour. the white house announced the president's schedule for the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. president biden and the first lady will travel to all three sites of the terror attacks on saturday visiting ground zero in new york city, shanksville, pennsylvania and the pentagon. vice president harris and the second man will also visit shanksville, pennsylvania and the pentagon. and in the 20 years since the attacks on the nation, terrorists have evolved their tactics but so has law
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enforcement. tom winter covers the new york police department for nbc news and he has this look at how the nypd works every day to make sure the city is never ground zero again. >> reporter: when it comes to terrorism, new york city's police department isn't afraid to show force. but in the shadows, in places they don't allow cameras, the brains of the department work 24/7. >> i would imagine after these events we'll see a pick up -- >> reporter: this is the nypd's intelligence bureau. >> we decided if the we want to do this right we have to have a dedicated force that is specially trained. >> reporter: the man in charge, a 37 year veteran nypd cop from the beat, chief thomas gilate, determined to stop the next terror attack building on the lessons from the past. >> if you look at the 9/11
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commission report, the failure was the failure of sharing of intelligence. you don't want to be the person holding a piece of information and then something happens. >> reporter: we were there the morning after a bomb ripped through a crowd in kabul afghanistan. nbc news granted exclusive access to the day's intelligence briefing. >> provide a situational update based on our -- >> reporter: the nypd's focus, making sure no suspected terrorists are sneaking into the flood of evacuees. >> the large majority being vetted by the dgsi which is our equivalent of the fbi. >> reporter: right away he spots a potential problem. >> there's been some reporting from the uk that some of the people that were actually no-flied -- >> yeah or some other kind of watch list. >> reporter: the lesson of 9/11 he says identify the threat overseas before it comes home to new york city. how?
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15 nypd posts across the globe. so essentially the sun never sets on an nypd detective? >> no. >> reporter: a network of cops and analysts that went to work after ariana grande's concert was attacked in 2017 in manchester, england. >> we went and looked where do we have concerts right now. >> reporter: there's more plots than ever she said. >> there's been 51 plots and attacks against the city in the last 20 years. half of those, 25, have been in the last five years. >> reporter: a rising number originating at home. >> we've seen not just a transition from al qaeda to isis, which we saw in 2014 really sharply, but other actors like racially ethnically motivated extremists, white supremacists, neo-nazi and then anti-government extremism. >> reporter: keeping the country
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safe is a personal mission for gilate, ground zero is half a mile from his office, names on the wall, people he knew. what is the thing that keeps you up at night on the dawn of this anniversary? >> i think that i never feel easy, even if i do think we have a handle on the threat stream, you know, it's the unknown that really frightens me. >> let's bring in now nbc news investigations reporter tom winters. he joins us now. for those outside of new york city, even i guess for a lot of people inside of new york, the size and the scope of their anti-terror efforts really would be shocking. i remember when i first learned of just how big it was. i was really surprised. talk about that, talk about the focus since 9/11 and how they -- how they continue to succeed. >> i think an important thing to note, you mentioned outside of
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new york city, people may not understand although a lot of people outside of new york city have benefitted from the work of the women and men we showed you in that piece there. i talked to, don't have to take nypd's word for it, i talked to agencies up and down the coast, i have a colleague that speaks to them on the west coast. it's clear the nypd's programs and their operation century, which is designed to share law enforcement information from police departments to new york and then spread out throughout the country were from new york, spread out throughout the country, has been enormously successful. i know police departments rely on their information from their briefs from what they're getting from overseas, those outposts as part of the nypd's foreign liaison program that i mentioned and on top of the analytic cal work they stood up the racially and ethnically motivated extreme group, so they're focused on not
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just afghanistan, what al qaeda and isis may be saying but they're focused on the domestic terrorist threats, people in the name of say white supremacy or in the name of far right terrorism, anti-government terrorism, so they're focused on the new threats. as you heard in the piece obviously those threats are increasing. so they're focused on pushing that information out, as well as taking it in. >> of course, tom, i remember after 9/11, the terrible days and weeks and months after 9/11. the silver lining was just how united the country was. it was extraordinary, never seen anything like it in my life before, if you weren't there, it -- it would be hard to describe to somebody younger who's used to seeing this country divided, how united we were after 9/11. which really makes your last point so difficult to grasp.
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that here we are 20 years later and nypd's biggest threat may not be coming from overseas after all, it may be coming from domestic terrorists, of course that lone wolf we've been hearing about for quite some time. how are they having to adjust their thinking, tactics? >> we look at the internet really as this gigantic jukebox in some ways of hate. so whether you are interested in some sort of islamic extremist, the message of isis, whether you're interested in message of white supremacy. whether there's an anti-government or far right. we saw it with the nashville bombing where we had a possible motive there believing there's a section of government that's actually lizards, i'm not making that up. you look at the different things out there on the internet and people pick the tune they want to listen to if they want to act
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out and commit violent acts. one of the things they're doing is taking to social media, being careful to understand people have first amendment rights to say things but it's trying to be on top of the threat when those social media posts, comments to their neighbors, friends, loved ones, take a turn from political statements or from statements on whatever viewpoints they may have towards a direction of violence. and that's really where their big challenge is, that's where their civilian analysts and detectives are focused on and as you saw from the piece not just here in the u.s. but from abroad as well. >> nbc's tom winter, thank you very much for that reporting. coming up the new abortion law in texas is facing a potential challenge from the justice department. we'll have the latest on that legal fight and what the ride share companies lyft and uber are doing to help drivers who might get sued under the bounty measure of the controversial law. >> can you believe that?
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bounty -- the bounty measure of a vigilante law that was passed to actually avoid the enforcement of a constitutional right that's been in this country for 50 years. >> we're going to explore that big time. >> yeah. good job. plus extended unemployment benefits meant to ease the economic shock of the concern pandemic has come to an end. what it means for millions of americans who are still without a job. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming ri back i've lost count of how many asthma attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions,
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welcome back to "morning joe." what a beautiful sunrise over washington d.c. on this morning after labor day. and -- >> beautiful. >> just gorgeous.
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absolutely gorgeous. more news now, extended unemployment benefits for more than 7.5 million americans expired yesterday. the question is, what will the impact of that be on the economic recovery? nbc senior business correspondent stephanie ruehl reports on that. >> reporter: unemployment benefits are over for 7.5 million americans. another 3 million will see their weekly checks cut by $300. it comes as hiring slowed in august, likely due to the surge in delta variant. brook delivered groceries when the pandemic started, she scaled back her hours. she's been on unemployment since april of this year. >> knowing this date is coming up, what's it been like for you? >> stressful. put me in a slump, a depression. >> reporter: he said she applied for 150 jobs in the last few months but so far no offers.
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>> i don't meet the criteria, or they've already hired somebody. >> reporter: for every eight people who lost their unemployment benefits in june, only one found a new job, reasons include lack of child care and the mismatch of jobs available and the people looking for work. >> we never cut off benefits for this many people in one swoop. >> reporter: with a record 10 million jobs now available, many business owners like joseph hope the end of benefits help them find much needed workers. the bakery owner has seen more applicants already. >> i wouldn't call it a flood, it's more of a trickle but we did see an up tick in people interested. >> so julie pace, interesting piece by stephanie rhule there with a lot of different realities. how does the desperate search for jobs for those whose
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benefits match up with with the supply shortage and employee shortage. >> right now we are in a labor shortage. you talk to business owners across the country and they cannot find people to work. there are a lot of reasons people are not returning to work. part of that is the resurging delta variant. we're in a position that people are sending their kids back to school, a lot of uncertainty about what the school year looks like, and then child care, which makes it hard to commit to a job. over the next couple months we have to let it play out a bit before we see what the impact of cutting out the unemployment benefit is. at this point, there's little appetite in congress to extend the benefits. >> very uncertain fall. jonathan lemire, could we actually increase the level of
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unemployment in the red sox bullpen as we move into the fall. maybe get rid of all of them? >> there's certainly a number that would lose their jobs and wouldn't get benefits if the members of red sox nation were asked their opinion. joe, this has been a season for most part has exceeded expectations. but we have had our share of gut punch losses. and i'd say yesterday might be the worst yet, 7-1 lead, chris sale on the mound, shotty defense, blown lead after blown lead and a bullpen melt down that would require all the relievers to go to springfield which would be difficult since the red sox don't have a minor league team in springfield. >> thank you for explaining that to the non-red sox fans. they need to go straight to springfield, mika. >> i told you not to watch.
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>> our labor day was held up a little bit yesterday was it not? >> yes, it was. >> by me watching television and gently whispering at the tv screen, come on, fellas. is that how it went? >> no. the house almost fell down with your loud bellowing. >> i was not happy. >> it was not good. a little childish. >> it was not childish. >> julie page thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you, julie. and congratulations again. we're so happy for you. >> thank you so much, i appreciate it. still ahead, how mob justice is trampoling democratic discourse. the latest piece "the new pur puritans". and plus, the man who ran washington when washington ran the world.
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we'll revisit the life of james backer in light of the fall of afghanistan. we'll be right back. the fall of afghanistan. we'll be right back. (brother) hi sis! (sister) you're late! (brother) fashionably late. (sister) we can not be late. (brother) there's a road right there. (brother) that's a cat. wait, just hold madi's headpiece. (sister) no. seriously? (brother) his name is whiskers. (bride) what happened to you? whose cat is that? (brother) it's a long story.
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vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy
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pur welcome back to "morning joe." live look at new york city. it's just before the top of the hour on this -- >> isn't that -- that's the top of 30 rock. >> yes, it is. >> mika, isn't that your penthouse at the very top? >> no, it's not. that might be yours. it's tuesday, september 7th. it's good to have you all with us. and it's great to be back. >> it is. >> after a little bit of time off. a little time to reflect. the ap's jonathan lemire is still with us. and we'll start this hour with an update on the coronavirus crisis. the overall covid case count in the united states, since the start of the pandemic now tops 40 million.
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new cases have climbed steadily in recent weeks and the country is averaging for man 1,500 deaths a day for the first time since march. about 207 million people have now received a first dose of a vaccine and more than 175 million have been fully vaccinated. which is about 53% of the total population. those numbers come after a weekend of holiday travel, which health experts fear could add to the surge. nbc news correspondent quad has more. >> reporter: millions of americans are flocking to vacation hot spots this holiday weekend, despite a cdc warning the unvaccinated should stay close to home. >> if people aren't vaccinated they shouldn't travel. >> reporter: the tsa reporting 5.3 million passengers crossing airport security since friday. more than double the number seen at this point during labor day
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weekend last year. >> i'm going to disney world. the covid numbers in florida scare me but i'm vaccinated. >> reporter: many making their ways to stadium, beaches across the country. the number of reported cases reaching 40 million in the u.s. now health experts fear the holiday weekend could be another super spreader just as kids are returning to the classroom. >> you should be cautious about travel if you have children in school or starting school soon because most cases of transmission are likely to happen during travel and those could be cases you carry into the classroom. >> reporter: with covid already forcing at least 1,400 in-person school closures since the beginning of this school year. recent data from the american academy of pediatrics indicates one in five new cases are in children. >> the only person i'm worried about is my daughter, who's unvaccinated since she's 4. >> and with no vaccine available
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for children 12 and under, parents are doing what they can to protect their kids while keeping them in school. so now more on the schools. "the wall street journal" notes the recent increase in cases is driving tens of thousands of students back to virtual learning or pausing instruction altogether. the journal reports, quote, since the school year kicked off, at least 1,000 schools across 31 states have closed because of covid-19. the shutdowns are hitting classrooms especially hard in the deep south. where most schools were among the first to open. a possible warning of what's to come as the rest of the nation's students start school this month. in mississippi nearly 14,000 students have tested positive for covid-19 since the new academic year began in early august, sending more than 20,000 students into quarantine for each of the past three weeks.
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in new mexico, around one in ten school aged kids tested positive for the virus, when they tested double the rate of adults. state data there also shows nearly 10% of the state's students have spent time in quarantine. and in georgia, state officials say more than half of the state's recent outbreaks have been linked to schools. meanwhile, new polling shows the majority of americans support vaccine mandates in schools, but not for businesses. in the latest washington post/abc news poll 59% say they're in favor of a mandate for teachers and staff. while 64% of democrats and independents support it, 64% of republicans oppose it. republicans are also the outlier on vaccine requirements for eligible students with 67% being against a mandate.
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overall, though, 54% say they're in favor of requiring students to get vaccinated. and 52% say they support businesses requiring vaccinations for employees. that same poll shows vaccine hesitancy decreaing among younger republicans and republican-leaning independents. in april, 55% of republican leaning adults under 40 years old said they would probably or definitely not get vaccinated. in the latest washington post/abc news poll that figure was at 36%. 48% of those under 40 years old also said they are at least partially vaccinated and 11% said they are likely to get vaccinated. a lot of information, joe. a lot of sort of story lines here that are frustrating, but there also is good news on the horizon. >> there is some good news. and jonathan lemire, i know the
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white house has to be looking at these numbers in that same -- in that same washington post story i read that talked about all of these numbers. there was focus on the fact that younger republicans and republican-leaning independents are becoming more open to taking the vaccine, are getting the vaccine. and also, a pretty big number. there's been a jump from 67% of americans being vaccinated in, i think it was, may to now 75% of americans having at least one shot thus far. and if we can move that into the 80s, then some epidemiologists predictions from over the weekend that we may be seeing the end of covid in the fall may, in fact, come to pass. >> yeah, the white house won't quite go that far as they tend to be conservative on most of their covid projections. but there are some signs of hope here, you ran through the stats
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but we are seeing a decrease in delta cases in some of the states in the south and midwest that were the center of this current surge. small drops to be sure. but potential steps in the right direction. seeing more people getting the vaccine and polling suggests, indeed, particularly among young, more of a willingness to consider getting those shots. that is all good news. but there are, of course, some dark clouds on the horizon, too. dr. gottlieb was saying this weekend that there is a -- he believes there will be a jump in cases in the northeast coming this fall because the delta variant, because of the return to schools, because of labor day travel, which is something that people are worried about throughout the country. there is talk of a new variant, that is -- to be sure, it's early stages, more research needed but shown the ability to get around the antibodies of the vaccine that would be worrisome.
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and the booster, pfizer bringing theirs in a few weeks but moderna could be a few weeks after that, there's a little bit of delay per administration officials. so as a growing consensus that a third shot is needed to protect against delta, not every american will be able to get one right away. it's still a mixed bag, joe but the overarching trend slightly toward positive but certainly the white house and the officials i talked to over the weekend still preaching caution, saying we have a long way to go. just to underline what dr. gottlieb says, when he talks i listen because he's gotten it right more often than not. we only have a year's worth of data to look at. but if you look at last year compared to this year, you saw at least in the south the same trends. when the weather started to heat up in the late spring and the summer, you started to see, as
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people in the south in the sun belt went inside, into air conditioning, you saw places like arizona, texas and florida, you saw their numbers spike. last fall, as you got into the fall, things got colder and people in the northeast and midwest started to go inside, because it was getting cool outside, you saw those numbers start to go up as well. so it does seem to make sense that people in the northeast need to take special care as we move into the fall and as they go inside. all right. moving on to other news and politics here. attorney general merrick garland is pushing back on the restrictive new abortion law out of texas, vowing to protect anyone trying to obtain or provide abortions in the state. the law bans abortions without exceptions after six weeks often before many women know they are
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pregnant. garland says federal prosecutors are urgently exploring options to challenge the new law. he released a statement yesterday that reads in part, the justice department will provide support from federal law enforcement when an abortion clinic or reproductive health center is under attack. we will not tolerate violence against those seeking to obtain or provide reproductive health services. meanwhile, ride share companies lyft and uber will cover the legal fees of drivers who get sued under that restrictive new law, which gives citizens the right to file civil suits and collect damages against anyone who is considered to be assisting in an abortion, including those who transport women to clinics. lyft released a statement that reads in part, quote, this law is incompatible with people's basic rights to privacy, our community guidelines, the spirit of rideshare, and our values as
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a company. the company will also be donating $1 million to planned parenthood. >> and you know, mika, just there's so much about this ruling i don't get. as you know, one of my favorite sayings is that in politics sometimes when you win you lose and when you lose you win. that saying from the illinois senator paul simon. that applies to this texas law, where the losers aren't just limited to the republican politicians. another institution damaged by the law is the supreme court. i still can't believe this. they willingly went along with the gop's ploy to strip americans of a constitutional rights that 74% of americans support. a constitutional right that's been recognized by the supreme court for 50 years. and they did so based purely on procedural grounds.
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now in so doing, the five conservatives on the court, i don't call that conservative but they call themselves conservative. the five conservatives on the court, like the texas legislature were too clever by half. their upkeep of the law could move to blue states installing gun laws. and schools or engaging in any other constitutionally protected right as long as it follows the texas legislature's model. it's a mess. i'm not sure what they thought they were going to do with that ruling, but it's going to be short lived and create
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constitutional chaos. and unfortunately i think this may be the most damaging legacy of the case and it's going to encourage extremists possibly on both ends of the spectrum, to attack rights in state legislatures. the supreme court, they've embarrassed themselves with a bad decision that sets a dangerous precedent and is bad for all americans. let's bring in white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker and susan -- susan, let me start with you. i can't count the number of pro-life conservative lawyers i've spoken to over the past week who have said this is not good news. this is not good news for us. if california decided to ban handguns and just say, we're not going to have the attorney general enforce it, just any
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citizen that sees somebody with a handgun, they just report them, and then go through the same process of texas, and then that constitutional right will be taken away. or any other constitutional right will be taken away. i guess what really surprises me the most is that the united states supreme court, that five justices on the u.s. supreme court would take away a constitutionally protected right, recognized as written into the constitution for half a century, and do it based purely on procedural grounds. >> well, joe, you know, doing it in the middle of the night without any real explanation of it. this is maybe an example of what you're talking about in terms of the politics. for decades they worked towards this and now it's like the dog who caught the fire truck. there's a problem of understanding how big have we gone here and is this going to be some kind of major backlash looking towards the next election. to me this is an example of
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elections having consequences. and for four years of the trump administration, you had a lot of conservatives holding their nose and saying well, the supreme court. well, this is what the trump supreme court has wrought. i think it's an example of people's having a hard time, even when it's threatened, really understanding the consequences that are going to pass. i was shocked by how quickly it happened and by the procedural middle of the night move which under mines confidence in the supreme court. >> some of these conservative lawyers i've been speaking with, peter, have said the worst part of this is, it's not going to be, for them, it's not going to be held up. there's no way this case is going to be held up if it goes -- when it goes back before the united states supreme court. so what sort of victory have the pro-life supporters really gained here, other than the u.s. supreme court setting a dangerous precedent that could
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be turned against conservatives as well in blue states? >> well, it embroils in a fascinating legal and political way. they allowed the law to go into effect for now, if you allow a law that bans abortion basically at six weeks to go into effect, you have chipped away at roe v wade where you said it does not control, even if this eventually is changed later when they get to the full arguments. the bigger case they're going to hear this fall is from mississippi. they banned in their law, abortion after 15 weeks and there's talk on the anti-abortion law saying maybe the mississippi law will look more reasonable in comparison to the texas law. so it's a question whether they're preparing to reverse row v. wade altogether or whether they're looking to chip away at it and gut it if laws like this are allowed to go into effect. then there's the enforcement
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mechanism, unlike anything we've seen before, a novel, unusual way of enforcing an abortion law that invites all kinds of chaos and uncertainty anybody can go up and act in the guise of the state enforcing a law. >> it is -- it is pretty remarkable, i certainly never saw anything like this in law school. never saw it while practicing law. jonathan lemire, joe biden obviously concerned about this as well. merrick garland talking about it. what's the biden administration's approach going to be the next week or two? >> we did hear strong words from the president in the last few days, condemning first the decision out of texas and then what the supreme court did in the middle of the night. and right now their focus is indeed on the department of justice and using the levers of government to offer protections to those involved, as spelled
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out, the doj will -- we wade into texas here and provide safety and safe harbor, avoid prosecution for those who could face consequences of this law. there's concern that other states will follow suit. the white house is certainly keeping an eye on those too. and, of course, this again starts the discussion about the future of the supreme court. and in particular justice briar, who is long-rumored to be eyeing retirement or considering it, and some on the left want to push him there, to make him step away so president biden can appoint his successor while the democrats still control the senate because it's not just about justice briar's health it's the health of the democratic senators, particularly those in states with republican governors that would jeopardize the democrat's ability to get a justice on the court. we have heard from senate minority leader mcconnell suggesting he would have reservations with a hearing if
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republicans were to take power again in the senate. certainly there's a lot at play here right now and we are told from white house officials that we should expect to hear more from the president on this issue publicly as this week goes on. we move to afghanistan now, one week after the u.s. mission there officially ended. more than 100 americans are still stranded there. and this as the taliban asserts more authority over the country it now rules. nbc news foreign correspondent molly hunter has the latest. >> reporter: the taliban claims they've taken the last hold out in afghanistan. raising their flag in the panjshir valley though the main resistance group denies it. the state department said four americans were able to leave afghanistan over land saying they're in good condition. that leaves around 100 americans still in afghanistan more than a week after president biden withdrew u.s. forces. in northern afghanistan on the
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tarmac americans are stuck on private chart erplanes. >> six airplanes with american citizens on them as i speak, also with these interpreters and the taliban is holding them hostage for demands. >> reporter: the white house said they're not aware of any hostage situations. but a top democratic blasting the biden administration saying i have been deeply frustrated and furious at our government's delay in action. then there's 25-year-old nazria, a 25-year-old from america who's pregnant and trapped in afghanistan. >> there's been days i think to myself am i going to make it home? am i going to end up living here? am i going to end up dying here? before u.s. forces withdrew she scrambled to the airport with
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her american passport but the taliban didn't let her through. >> i got gun pointed to my head. >> reporter: she said the taliban are hunting down americans. >> so peter baker, obviously you spent an awful lot of time, you and susan spent an awful lot of time, studying about, reading up on, writing about james baker, just the consummate washington insider. one of the complaints that have been levelled against the biden administration is that they are -- it is an administration filled with a lot of staffers and very few principals like james baker. how important is it for a president to have somebody like baker around him that can walk in and gently or not so gently let the president know he's making the wrong move? >> obviously that's an important role for any white house chief of staff, james baker made his bones in washington as ronald
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reagan's chief of staff in the beginning of the 1980s. he wasn't the person he is at this time, he had to prove himself both of the republican party, he had to prove himself as the master operator he would turn out to be. i think you're right. it's important to have somebody at your side if you're president who's able to tell you the pitfalls, the trap doors. jim baker at this point in life would support president biden on the withdrawal from afghanistan. i think he would have been more cautious about the way it was handled. probably would have been more, attune to the potential problems that could be associated with a rapid withdrawal of troops in terms of americans left behind, afghan allies left behind. he wouldn't be somebody who would be approving of, you know, the kind of messy, you know, chaotic situation we've seen in the last week, but he was for
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the underlying policy. i think you're right, the most important thing is to have somebody at your side who's able to guide you and give you the kind of advice that most people won't do with the president because they're too intimidated or, you know -- >> you know, susan, i'm sure everybody inside the biden white house has read your book multiple times. but if they have not, what are the lessons that they could take out of it? what are the lessons that people around joe biden and the white house, people at the state department as baker was in the state department, biden administration officials around washington and the world, what is the takeaway from james baker's life? what made him so effective and made him so important to ronald reagan and the presidents he served? in. >> well, fair enough, they might not have much time for reading right now so i understand that. look, baker obviously was renowned as a deal maker, it was
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a different moment in washington when deals across the aisle with the soviets were possible. but i would say this, first of all, he was very adept at knowing that washington loves a winner and that being a winner and creating a sense of momentum is extremely important and the deals build on each other. and i think that's why you see the biden administration looking to take a bipartisan infrastructure deal and use that to move to the next one. i think that's where this very difficult august they've had and the sense that their momentum has been broken is a problem. but not only does everybody love a winner, if you make a deal, you have to have people feel that they weren't run over by a railroad truck in terms of making that. you know, they have to come away with everybody feeling like they got enough of what they needed. and i think that was baker's real skill. not ramming it down the throat of the opposition. he was known as the velvet
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hammer, his cousin called him that. in washington today a lot of people said to us, is it even possible to be that kind of player, to have that kind of authority? i think there's something fundamental about how politics have changed. it's a much more extreme, angry, partisan and polarized moment. but that being said, you know, there's always an opening no matter how small. that's the other lesson that baker has. you see that in the optimism that joe biden has brought to the presidency. this idea that, you know, you've got to keep trying. you're not going to make a deal if you don't at least set out to pursue one. >> the book is "the man who ran washington: the life and times of james a. baker iii". out now in paperback. thank you both for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," more on the challenges facing the biden white house from the spike in covid cases to
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the withdrawal from afghanistan to the aftermath of last week's historic storms. we'll go live to the white house, plus a look at the clinton impeachment scandal through the eyes of monica lieu -- la win ski. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watc" we'll be right back. this is how you become the best! [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today. oh! are you using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? so you only pay for what you need.
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all right. it's 29 past the hour. live look at the white house. and way back when she was just a 22-year-old intern when her relationship with the president began. now, 23 years later, monica lewinsky is turning to television to reframe her side of the story. in the latest installment of the
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anthology series american crime story, lewinsky works as a producer on impeachment. and the season looks at the most famous political sex scandal from the eyes of the women involved. lewinsky offers a competing narrative that shares her side of the story in an era where society has greater awareness of the effects of bullying, trauma and sexual power dynamics. >> have to admit, you're a knockout. you must be dating some big d.c. player. the ratio in this town is very favorable. tell me about him. someone from work? someone important? >> i have found myself in possession of some very sensitive information.
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information of major national importance. it's beyond imagining. >> in the 23 years after the scandal, altered the path of her life, lewinsky has come out of the shadows of being that woman, has been coping with her ptsd, speaking out to share her side, and in a way, humanize herself. the season stars be felled seine, sarah pallson, emily ash ford and edie falco. lewinsky told "the new york times" that while she would have preferred there not be a television series at all, it was inevitably going to happen. and she wanted to be in the room when it did.
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american crime story, impeachment, premiers tonight at 10:00 on fx. and some of the other stories we're following this morning, transportation secretary pete buttigieg and his husband, chasten are now parents, welcoming the two over the weekend. it comes after the couple announced they'd been exploring adoption in recent months. in a post on social media pete buttigieg shared we're beyond thankful for all the kind wishes since sharing the news we are becoming parents we're delighted to welcome pe nell po rose and joseph august to our family. a talented actor known for
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his role in the series "the wire" has died. michael k. williams was found on monday in his home in brooklyn. on the wire he played the memorable role of mara little in the series about drugs and corruption. he went on to star in the acclaimed series "boardwalk empire" and is up for an emmy in his role in hbo's "love craft country". michael k williams was 54 years old. >> really sad news. sad news for really one of the great actors in one of the best television series that we've seen. certainly over the past 30 years. just extraordinary, sad news. we certainly are thinking about his family and praying for his friends and loved ones today. m coming up a critical look at mob justice, cancel culture
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and wokeness. staff writer for the atlantic, ann applebalm joins us next on "morning joe." ning joe."
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what will be this sort of fight for this $3.5 trillion infrastructure bill. that's going to be a really, really important part of the president's agenda while, of course, events like afghanistan and the covid surge have defined the last month of his presidency. he is someone who wants to be focussed on the economy and talk about the idea that the way to get through this pandemic, the way to get to a better place for americans overall is through helping them with the changing climate and also helping them with the economics of surviving amid a pandemic. >> yamiche, thank you very much. live from the white house for us. thank you. we're going to turn now to a piece in the current issue of "the atlantic" that should be on everyone's must read list. it's by staff writer at the atlantic, ann applebaum who joins us now. also with us for this conservative is columnist and
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associated editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. and professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson. the new piece is entitled "the new puritans" and it discusses the rise of mob justice in today's culture and its long term effects. and you write in part this, the modern online public sphere, a place of rapid conclusions, rigid ideological prisms and arguments of 280 characters favors neither nuance nor ambiguity. yet the values of that online sphere have come to dominate many american and cultural institutions, universities, newspapers, foundations, museums. heeding public demands for rapid retribution they sometimes impose the equivalent of a lifetime scarlet letter on people who have not been accused of anything remotely resembling
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a crime. instead of courts they see rive beau rock caseys, instead of hearing evidence they make judgments behind closed doors. this is a story of moral panic, cultural institutions policing or purifying themselves in the face of disapproving crowds. the crowds are no longer literal, as they once were in salem but rather online mobs organized via twitter, facebook, or sometimes internal company slack channels. >> by the way, the victims of this mob justice are certainly not confined to the right. so many are also on the left, whether in media or whether in academic circles, wherever it is. ann, it's an eye opening piece. probably about a decade ago i started noticing this moral self-righteousness and preening that had been associated with
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the far right popping up on the far left. and i talked about how some of the things i was seeing from the far left, starting about a decade ago, reminded me of when i went to my grand mom's house and she would have on the ptl club and i was watching jim and tammy faye baker and you go back further for your historical the puritans. explain. >> as you know, i've written about liberalism on the right and this piece was an attempt to understand a different phenomenon, which is liberalism inside cultural institutions which sometimes comes from what you could call the left or what you could call the -- you know, a new group of young people trying to think differently. but what it reminds me of is not so much institutions in the past. when governments tried to impose a set of ideas or created laws or instituted censorship. what it looks like and feels
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like, if you're part of it, and i talked to many people who were on various sides of the argument, what it feels like is a kind of massive intense form of social conformism. and the book i wound up rereading was the book "the scarlet letter" which is an american classic. and it describes how a small town gangs up on a woman accused of adultery. awe tri ceases her and kicks her out of the community. other people are guilty, many are innocent, many other people in the town also committed sins but they identify her as the one that deserves punishment. this is what it feels liking to people who wind up on the wrong side of one of these arguments. they lose their jobs, sometimes lose their livelihoods, sometimes lose all their
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friends. and often, as in the passage you read out, after procedures that are unclear, anonymous or conducted behind closed doors they understand very little about it. that feels to me deeply unfair, something coming out of america's deep past and ending it is going to require that we begin to think differently about how we judge people and in particular how we rely on these or learn to live with these social media mobs that sometimes attack people. >> and mika, ann in the piece talks about how social codes are changing and how many of the people accused obviously did things that we should find abhorrent. >> right. >> at the same time obviously you have to sort through these accusations and actually apply, you know, some due process and fairness to it. >> that's what i wanted to ask, ann, if you could describe the people that you spoke to for this piece that is incredibly thoughtful and i do think
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everybody should read it. you know, what is the description of who these people are and would any of them have wanted to share their names? >> so i did talk to a range of people, some people did share their names. many of them did not, either because they fear once again being attacked online or because they're involved in complicated legal issues or lawsuits with their institutions. they range a lot, actually. some of them are journalists, some of them were people in academia, some people were in foundations. and i talked to people on both sides of this. i talked to some people who were victims who described how their friends and contacts and professional life disappeared overnight. and i talked to some administrators who had to deal with these issues and who also found them very difficult and found them very hard to work through. one of the things i found was that usually these stories are
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really complicated. you can't summarize them in one sentence, and there are a lot of other issues involved. jealousy or competition or people trying to get back at other people. this was also, by the way, typical of very conformist societies where people are attacked for all kinds of reasons other than the ostensible one. and i also found a lot of them are people who are what we would use the term difficult or sometimes gregarious. they were people who stood out in some way, they were people who sometimes bothered other people. they sometimes demanded a lot of their students or colleagues. there was something about them that often created this -- some kind of dissension around them. which, of course, doesn't mean that they deserve to be eliminated from public life. and usually, again, the ostensible reason, the thing they're accused of is not usually the whole story and the whole stories are very
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complicated. >> gene robinson is with us ann and has a question for you. >> ann, i guess my question is, is this a qualitatively different process from what's always happened? is this new because of social media and the speed and volume of condemnation that comes or is it -- is it the fact that every generation defines its sort of values and mores and that the younger generation, whatever that generation happens to be at the time, tends to win those battles because it lives longer? and so, if -- whenever i hear people our age, you know, talking about these kids today and how they are and how politically correct they are and this and that, i keep thinking
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that well, you know, in 30, 40 years, we're not going to be around, they're going to be around, they're going to win this argument, isn't that the case? >> first of all, i do think that this speed of social media and the nature of these online mobs is different from anything that we've had before. and second of all, i worry that people in that generation, younger people, are just as much the victims of this as people our age. it's not confined to one age group. there is some generational conflict here but that's not the only thing happening. and the concern is not that, you know, their values are different from mine or something like that. the concern is that the atmosphere of intellectual life in a lot of institutions is frozen. people are afraid to say things, publish things. they don't talk to one another.
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there's topics that can't be brought up. one yale professor told me about an incident from history that he used to discuss with his students that he doesn't discuss anymore because he's afraid it will offend them. that means we have universities, we have schools, we have other institutions where things that actually happen, difficult subjects aren't dealt with. and that does bode ill for the rest of us and it's worth discussing and confronting honestly. >> boy, this is so important. walter, let's talk to you. you live around college students. mika and i decided to do something different this summer, actually talk to people, invite friends over to dinner. and i can't tell you, every dinner discussion somehow always got back to this -- >> it's true. >> -- and most of the people that we're talking about, surprisingly enough, were left of center people who were going to take their kids out of new
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york city schools, who are left of center parents who had sent their kids to boarding schools, left of center parents who sent their kids to the best schools. they're all taking these school. but i was thinking that this was just an age issue and thinking like jean, well, maybe we're just old and this is the future. and then mika and i had some college students visiting with parents. the most frightening thing i heard came from them, and you know what they said, walter? we don't talk in class anymore. we don't have public discussions anymore. if you say one wrong thing, you're lit up on social media and your social life at school is over. and we heard this time and again. it made me sick because for those who went to college when we went to college, it's about saying stupid things in class, about getting it terribly wrong,
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and about getting your preexisting prejudices and getting your idiotic ideas out on the table, having it discussed and you growing as a person. that is not happening now at so many colleges, because the students are scared to death to talk, go up on social media and be canceled. what do we do about that? >> you know, i teach at tulane, and we talk about that all the time now. i have a class i'm teaching now, american history through the law. like ann appelbaum, start with the salem witch trials and people like ann har kenson. i said let's talk about cancel
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culture. i have found that students are very much pushing back in the direction, saying we want to speak out, we don't want to be afraid. and i say, hey, this class is a safe zone. you're going to be free to say what you want and we're going to respect what everybody says. and i try to draw out very conservative voices, other voices, but make it a civil dialogue. perhaps i'm overoptimistic, but because of this pushback of talking, i see they want to be up front about it, be open about it, and not allow it to stop them from the tough american history cases we're going to have to teach. i loved anne's piece. i'd love to turn the conversation back to her, because one of the things we discussed was that anne was very fair. three or four times in her piece she said, this has been a really bad thing, but like all hurricanes, it has a silver
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lining, and it has corrected some of the toxic culture that used to exist when people got hit upon in universities or i'd go to the new orleans athletic club and hear people talking a certain way. so i wanted anne to talk a little bit about that correction that has been good because of this. >> yes. i mean, it's hard to say what "this" is. my piece is more narrowly about the effects on people who have lost their jobs and their livelihoods. but, yes, there are cultural changes that have been hugely positive. there are women who have been more comfortable speaking and moving around universities and other institutions. there is a more open discussion of race. there are -- you know, there are topics that were left out in the past that have been brought in. what we're seeing is a cultural change that has both good and bad sides. my objection is not to the cultural change, by objection is
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to the way people who are put out by it or put out by a version of it are unfairly punished or unjustly punished or mysteriously punished from people who don't understand. so it's not an objection to everything happening in the culture, and the piece is not an attack on wokeness, or it's not a woke versus anti-woke argument, it's really about thinking about, okay, we have these cultural changes, how do we cope with them, how do we make sure that people are treated fairly in the light of the speed of judgment that you can now -- that is now common nowadays? >> and it is so fascinating. anne has obviously spent the last five years writing about illiberalism on the right in america and poland and hungary
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across the world. this is illiberalism from the left. gene, let's talk about the balance. i'm sure you've seen examples of this wokeness, this cancel culture that doesn't seem fair that anne is writing about that we hear about so much. at the same time, it's a balancing act, isn't it? we have had -- not decades but centuries of racism, of sexism, even the past -- my gosh, even the past ten years when you look at advances women have made on corporate boards in politics, not only in america but across the world, things are changing dramatically. the social codes do need to change dramatically. we need, as i said earlier today, to keep stumbling toward the light. the question is, how do we balance it?
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how do we make sure, first of all, that we don't have mob justice from the left, but there saint overcorrection of this and we suddenly have people saying, oh, we can never talk about slavery, we can never talk about reconstruction, we can never talk about jim crow laws which some people are actually saying out there. >> we need to talk about all that stuff and absolutely we need to talk about history, and we need to do so frankly. if there are places where we can't do that, that's wrong. but i think in terms of the broad sweep of history, if we, you know, overcorrect toward, you know, political correctness in terms of racism and sexism the way we talk about lgbt community, for example, things like that, if we overcorrect a bit, i think that's okay. what i think is really different now, though, as anne said, and i
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don't really have an answer for it, is the consequences, the fact that this thing called social media that instantly connects us and that can -- it's -- we just don't have our arms around all the ways this technological advance has affected our lives. maybe not changed things fundamentally, but sped them up and intensified them. we're not going to solve that this morning, but i think that's one of the big things that's different now from in the past. social media is a beast that we've created. we created a frankenstein. >> anne, the general phenomenona
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has been seized by both parties, typically on the right. we've heard former president trump and his followers jump on this and try to appease people that were against his call of correctness in the campaign. how do you see this phenomenon become part of the political narrative as we hit the midterms next year, but particularly the '24 presidential election, especially amid rumblings that donald trump may be running again? >> i spend some time trying to extract the problem from the political narrative because the political narrative is distorting. for the right to go to cancel culture is absurd, and for it not to work is absurd, and i refer to some examples of that,
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the right also making use of social media to attack people on the other side and people on its own side. but there is something real there, and there is some change that's happened that people fear, people are afraid of speaking in public. people in many institutions are very wary of what they say and who is listening to them. and i think that -- i think if we don't hear that or if we don't deal with it, then it can be politicized. it's politicized because there is a kernel of something real beyond that. but it can be overblown and ridiculous the right's intent to use this as a political tool that it often is. >> we could use a full three hours for this conversation alone. the piece is in the new issue of "the atlantic." anne applebaum, thank you for writing it. eugene robinson, thank you.
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and tell us how the remnants of the hurricane are faring where you are. >> it's fine, electricity, internet back on. the big story that i think a lot of people miss is because tv tends to overdramatize things. things were not blown down that terribly, no flooding in new orleans, drainage worked fine. my heart goes out to southern tarrabonne, but the electricity is back on and people should come down and visit.
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they summed it up with the headline, is it ever going to end? our next guest said actually things are looking better and the country will be in a magical place by october. that's not too far away. we'll talk about the science behind that projection and get the latest on capitol hill. the next hour of "morning joe" continues right now. we are following a number of quickly developing stories this morning, including the united states now topping 40 million covid cases since the start of the pandemic with health experts keeping a close eye on the impact of labor day weekend travel. plus the taliban claims to have captured the last part of afghanistan still holding out against their rule. it comes as secretary of state antony blinken visits cutter where he will hold meetings on evacuation efforts.
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the death toll of hurricane i'd as president biden will visit new york and new jersey today. and expanded unemployment benefits have expired for millions of americans. what does it mean for the economic recovery? we'll look into that. but we begin this morning with a consequential week for democrats as congress returns to washington this week. democrats will begin the process of the most significant expansion of this country's social safety net in over half a century. the "new york times" reports this morning that congressional committees are set to meet this week to devise legislation that would touch virtually every american's life, from conception to aged infirmity. the paper reports the proposed legislation, a cradle to grave
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rereefing of a social safety net frayed by decades of expanding income inequality, stagnating wealth and depleted governmental resources, capped by the worst public health crisis in a century. the pandemic loosened the reins on federal spending, prompting members of both parties to support showering the kmi with aid. it also unkorkd decades-old policy desires -- like expanding medicare coverage or paid family and medical leave -- that democrats contend have proved to be necessities as the country has lived through the coronavirus crisis. democrats say they will finance their spending with proposed tax increases on corporations, which has already incited a multifaceted, big-budget effort by business groups working to
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kill the idea, and by possibly taxing wealth in ways that the united states has never tried before. to critics, the legislation represents a fundamental spending of american-style gov nachbs and a shift toward social democracy. with it, they worry, would come european-style endemic unemployment and depressed economic dynamism. passage of the bill, which would spend as much as $3.5 trillion over the next decade, is anything but certain. president biden, who has staked much of his domestic legacy on the measure's enact. will need the vote of every single democrat in the senate, and virtually everyone in the house, to secure it. can he get that? >> we'll bring in jonathan lemire and also the senior executive of "the associated press," jonathan lemire's boss.
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at least there's someone to keep him in line. >> this is exactly what he needs. i need to show up at 6:00 a.m. >> jonathan, let's begin the audition in front of your boss. so, jonathan weissman's "new york times" lighted it up very well this morning in describing just what's at stake. he said -- as mika said also, cradle the grave weaving of expansion, income and equality. so much is on the line. it really does, it's in line with the sweeping nature of fdr's new deal and lbj's great society. here we have joe biden in reach of passing legislation that will easily be the most dramatic expansion of the social safety net since lbj's great society,
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and all he needs are democrats to vote for it. here we are the day after labor day. there's been a lot of maneuvering this summer. what's it look like? will the democrats be able to stick together and make -- again, let me underline this for people who may not have been following over the summer. democrats don't need a single vote to make this happen. are they able to do this? >> this is my most nervous being on a public tv show, and i should take a moment to congratulate julia for her new ap job. we are thankful for that. joe, this is a big moment for this president. this has always been, from the early days of the administration, really brace the comparisons to lbj or fdr.
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he says, look, i'm a democrat. i believe this can help people. he and his avisors feel they can rewrite the role that government does in their lives and to really get a hand up. though this should be, you would think, easy, quote, to get all democrats in line, it's not going to be. the margins here are so small. just a handful of seats in the house and the senate is that 50-50 tie with vice president harris potentially acting as the tiebreaking vote. we just heard that one of those moderate senators, joe manchin of west virginia, suggesting they push pause on the idea of that $3.5 trillion bill, the one just described there in "the times" piece, because he has concerns about the economy being overheated. the government is playing too big of a role. granted, he said that before
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friday's disappointing jobs report so that may cast a new light on what he thinks, but this shows the struggle the administration is going to have where they have to satisfy moderates like manchin and sinema who are concerned about the size of a package like that, but particularly progressives, those in the house who want to go even bigger. but can the democrats really be the vote to defeats the signature proposal, the signature agenda of a democratic president? that's a tall order. but for some senators, that will be the question they have to make. they have to ask themselves do they cast their vote to pass this and potentially risk taking heat from more conservative voters back home? can a manchin sell this in west virginia? can tester sell it in montana, whatever that state may be? it's going to be a very difficult, thin line for this president to walk. >> you know, julie, i wonder sometimes if we -- i'm not talking about you, of course, i'll take all the blame for this
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myself. i wonder sometimes if we in the media don't pay close enough attention to how big this bill is, how sweeping this bill is, how historic this bill is. i know there is coverage, but there's not been a lot of really in-depth reporting and debating and fighting and back and forth, at least on this show about what's at stake here. it is historic. i remember hearing biden's speech back in april, and i was shocked by how sweeping it was for this supposed moderate guy from delaware. but again, this will revert 40 years of reaganism just like reagan reversed 45 years of reagan's new deal. i'm wondering if we'll get more into that as we move forward and there will be more heated debate going into the fall, because just the sheer size and scope of this and how this will
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fundamentally change americans' relationship with the government. >> i do think it's really important for us to keep casting this legislation in that light. there's been a lot of focus, obviously, on the top line number, there's been a lot of focus on this very narrow tightrope that biden has to walk to get this legislation passed. but what we are essentially talking about here is a fundamental shift in the social safety net in this country. as you say, reversing decades where the government under a republican leadership in most cases has been weakening that social safety net. what biden is trying to do is a reversal that would not just last throughout his presidency but would extend well beyond. that's why i do think as we look to the politics and we look to the votes, this is going to be very tricky for some democrats to vote against, even if they are nervous about that price tag or they are the democrats who want that price tag to be even bigger. there are so many democratic priorities, so many things that democrats have wanted for so long with regards to child care,
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helping working families in this bill, to be defeated because it doesn't meet all of your needs seems hard to envision. though i will say every democratic lawmaker right now, we talked about joe manchin and sinema earlier this year, every democratic lawmaker is in that position. it gives them a lot of power to tweak it around the edges. >> mika, we've heard a lot about a 50-50 nation, republicans and democrats fighting back and forth, gridlock in washington, d.c., the death of bipartisanship. the democrats have actually found themselves set up in a position now where even though it's a 50-50 split in the united states senate and the margins are so small in the house, somehow they have found themselves in a position as we move into the fall where their fate is in their own hands. >> right. >> and it really is astounding that there are some people in the democratic party that are
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even suggesting this deal is not going to get done. they're going to have to get a deal done. they're going to have to figure out how to come together as a democratic caucus in the senate and in the house and pass this legislation. maybe it's not $3.5 trillion, maybe joe manchin and kyrsten sinema find a compromise with progressives, but that compromise has to be found. they have no other choice. they have to make history or, of course, there will be no justification for them to run for reelection. still ahead, the latest on the aftermath of hurricane ida. what president biden will see firsthand today when he visits some of the hardest hit areas of new york and new jersey. that is next on "morning joe." that is next on "morning joe."
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so some of the other big stories we're following this morning, the death toll continues to climb in the northeast following the devastation by the remnants of hurricane ida. president biden will visit new york and new jersey today, greenlighting more federal aid. meanwhile, across louisiana and mississippi, hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses are still without power. nbc's vaughn hillyard will give us the latest from the gulf coast in just a moment. but first here's nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez with more on the northeast aftermath. >> as ida's torrential rain pounded new york city, officers
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frantically tried to reach this flooded basement. but when specialized rescue teams got there, it was too late. three people had already drowned. >> this storm has now rewritten the map. we used to think flooding was a coastal thing. it's not anymore. >> reporter: in the city where housing is hard to come by it's raising the questions of whether the northeast is ready for climate change and whether officials gave enough warning. in another building in queens, deb navarro was also trapped in her basement. did you ever expect this much water? >> never. >> reporter: so water was gushing in from the outside? >> gushing in. we were trapped in the basement. there was no way out. >> reporter: her son, who is blind, managed to pull her to safety. in new york city, 30 people died. in new jersey, 27. four are still missing, including two college students
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who witnesses say were swept away by rushing water. >> please pray for them. pray for them, please. everybody pray for them. >> reporter: president biden now set to tour new jersey mommy after home, basement after basement flooded out. the agonizing cleanup is only just beginning. a lot of memories here. >> absolutely. >> karen payor survived the storm in her home caring for her mother, a quadriplegic who couldn't easily be evacuated. >> i look around and i don't know where to start. i don't know. >> half a million in louisiana are still without power. some communities surrounded by standing water, homes gone. >> there is not a person in that area that's not suffering. >> reporter: overtaken by
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floodwaters. >> you're drowning, you're reaching up and saying help me and no one is coming. >> reporter: officials say the total number of destroyed power poles higher than hurricanes katrina, ike and zeda combined. offering a bridge to one town completely cut off by floodwaters. these waters in mud with nowhere to go. >> the mud just keeps coming and coming and coming. >> reporter: concerns about the most vulnerable. >> no lights, no hot water, no meals, no nothing. >> reporter: over the weekend, 600 residents evacuated from eight senior centers after the health department deemed them unfit for occupancy. >> nobody showed up. not one person showed up to come check on us. >> reporter: the city says five are dead. >> what we found was unacceptable. >> reporter: meanwhile seven now dead and the state attorney general demanding answers after
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more than 800 nursing home residents were evacuated to this warehouse and left on cots in floodwaters. >> people shouldn't be treated like that. you should be held accountable. >> reporter: but also small miracles chained up and trapped under debris, animal rescuers found this pup, bubbles, who survived for four days, like many here looking for a new home. vaughn hillyard, nbc news, lafitte, louisiana. >> it is so discouraging. you see one weather disaster after another. if you want to have a debate, mika, with two sides on climate change, whether climate change is causing all of this damage, don't invite insurance adjusters on the show, because they will tell you that the claims have exploded over the past 20 years, that climate change is undeniable, it's bad and it keeps getting worse. there is a "washington post" study that came out over the
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past week that shows that this summer one in three americans, people living in one in three counties in america have been hit by a climate disaster this year. heat wave is 64% of the counties in this country have been hit by heat waves as well. the weather situation is bad, and it goes from bad to worse as democrats are looking at that $3.5 trillion bill. obviously i know they're focusing on climate change, but we're going to have to figure out a way to not only continue taking care of it in this country, but also we're going to have to get serious with china, with india, with other countries who are the main polluters on the planet and have got to figure out a way to bring the world to the table. coming up, we'll turn to
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afghanistan and what's next for the americans still trapped inside that country. what the secretary of state is saying about that, next on "morning joe." about that, nextn "morning joe." wealth is breaking ground on your biggest project yet. worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation. wealth is shutting down the office for mike's retirement party. worth is giving the employee who spent half his life with you, the party of a lifetime. wealth is watching your business grow. worth is watching your employees grow with it. principal. for all it's worth.
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we're going to move to afghanistan now. the taliban say they took panjshir, the last holdout afghan province. they charged into eight districts of the region overnight. but representatives for the resistance forces say the taliban's claim of victory is false, insisting they will continue to fight from strategic positions across the area. meanwhile, four more americans were evacuated from afghanistan yesterday. a state department official said the americans were safely removed over land and the
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taliban, quote, was aware and did not impede their transit. this was the first known case of u.s. citizens being evacuated since the troop withdrawal officially ended last week. the white house says it will continue to work to evacuate all americans who wish to leave afghanistan. the president estimated last week one to two hundred u.s. citizens still remain. joining us now, u.s. foreign correspondent raf sanchez from doha, cutter. raf, what can you tell us? >> they're trying to stop airplanes from leaving doha to washington. finally giving some details on that situation, he confirms there was a relatively small of americans who were trying to get on those planes and get out of the country, but the problem, he
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said, was those americans and other afghans with valid travel documents are mixed in with afghan citizens who do not have the right paperwork, and so right now the taliban is not allowing any of those people to leave. the secretary also denying a claim made over the weekends by representative mike mccall, a republican, that this was a hostage situation at majara sharif airport. take a listen to what the secretary had to say. >> there are groups of people who are grouped together, some of whom have the appropriate travel documents, an american passport, a green card, a visa, and others do not. and it's my understanding that the taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document, but they have said those without valid documents at this point can't leave. but because all of these people are grouped together, that's
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meant that flights have not been allowed to go. we've been able to identify a relatively small number of americans who we believe are seeking to depart from majira sharif with their families. we ensured that all afghan citizens with travel documents will be allowed to leave. it's my understanding that the taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document. we are not aware of anyone being held on an aircraft or any hostage-like situation in majari sharif, so we have to work through the different requirements and that's exactly what we're doing. >> reporter: now, guys, the details here are still pretty vague, but this is what many were concerned about, that when u.s. troops left afghanistan, the american citizens left behind would effectively be at the mercy of the taliban as to whether they can leave the country. and now that the taliban is the government, they can hide behind bureaucratic procedures.
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they can say, look, we're not stopping anyone from leaving, they just have to have the right paperwork. the united states is engaging with the taliban on this issue at majari sharif, including in the last couple hours. this morning we are seeing what appears to be the largest protest yet in kabul since the city felt the taliban on august 15th. we're seeing very large groups of men and women on the streets together protesting against the taliban. taliban gunmen have been firing in the air trying to disperse those crowds. there are no reports yet of any injuries. guys? >> nbc's raf sanchez, thank you. and coming up on "morning joe," system error. we'll talk to the authors of a new book about big tech's outside influence on our lives and society. that conversation is just ahead, on "morning joe." "morning joe.
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the way covid will build in a regional part of the country, this is going to be a huge epidemic, and schools will lead to that delta wave. i hope this is going to be over, but i don't think we can come down from the mini surge we saw over the summer. >> dr. scott gottlieb warning on friday the northeast will likely see another jump in covid cases tied to the delta variant. but our next guest is quoted in the "washington post" as saying, quote, i truly, truly think we are in the end game. let's bring in infectious disease specialist and professor of clinical medicine at the university of california, san francisco and san francisco general hospital, dr. monica ghandi. dr. ghandi, what does the end
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game look like? >> so essentially what delta does is for those who are unvaccinated, eligible adults, it is finding them and causing a lot of infection, unfortunately, so that's why we've had these increasing cases among people who have been recalcitrant to get vaccinated, and it's causing immunity, in some cases causing illness, but in others causing immunity. and the only way to get through a pandemic is actually to cause immunity. we wanted it to be all through vaccination, but our country did not actually vaccinate at the same rates as other developed nations. so when a virus finds and causes a lot of immunity, it will go to places with the lowest immunity first. that was the south. it will go to more and more places in the midwest next. the northeast, i think, will be relatively protected by its high rates of vaccination and
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fundamentally it will come down. so when i think it's going to happen, two months at the most. >> doctor, when you talk about the virus finding them, for folks who are unvaccinated, is there a potential they will get through this without ever getting the virus, or does the virus find every single or most unvaccinated people? >> i mean, definitely children are at much lower risk just inherently from the virus, and we have mitigation procedures in schools as we should so we can keep schools open. some people who are more vulnerable are going to get sick. some young people are going to be fine from it, and we can increase vaccinations so it won't find people who are unvaccinated, and that is happening in this country as well. but we're seeing upticks in our vaccinations. overall immunity, either through vaccination or natural
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infection, is what gets you to the end game of a pandemic. and a highly transmissible variant is getting us there faster, and we want to do it as quickly as possible through vaccination. >> your positive outlook obviously jumped out not only in the "washington post" piece but in so many of the other pieces i've been reading, but it does really make sense. i've been telling friends for months now who keep asking, is this going to go on forever, it's a numbers game, and you are right. if you look at the numbers, we're now up to 75% of americans have had at least one vaccination shot, over 200 million people have had at least one vaccination shot, and you know that is an interesting way to look at delta for all the pain and misery that it's causing. it is also infecting a lot of people who get through it and adding to the numbers of people who have had covid and will be immune from it, at least for some point, pushing us finally toward that herd immunity
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number. >> right. i mean, it's essentially we'll learn to live with it when it's endemic, but how do you live with a virus where it's low cases, low hospitalizations. where i'm getting this outlook is really the history of infectious diseases. influenza 1919 pandemic got through it in a terrible way through natural immunity. measles, smallpox, as soon as we get immunity, that's the way it goes away. yes, it's both good and bad that we have delta. it's bad generally, but yes, more and more immunity will get us to the end game of the pandemic where we'll learn to live with it as an endemic virus that doesn't hurt us. that's the positive silver lining that we'll get through it. that's what the history of infectious disease tells us. >> good morning, this is jonathan lemire. is there anything that would dim your optimism? is there perhaps a new variant
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that would emerge, and we're hearing scattered reports that there may be one out there that can beat the antibodies produced by infection or vaccine? is that it, is there something else you may see that will change the prediction that covid could be coming to an end sooner than we expect? >> two things. the word "optimistic" has been applied to me. i'm not happy that we have to get through it with some natural immunity. i'm not happy with that at all. i wish we had higher vaccination rates like denmark and ireland who are opening up their countries fully without having to go through what we just went through with the delta wave. i'm not at all happy about that. i wish we had better rates of vaccination. second is that the new variant, which is being watched carefully, though it hasn't even elevated to a big concern, in the test tube some antibodies for the vaccine don't work as well. some antibodies work fine, but specifically it's our t-cell immunity which is a more complex response that we have that is
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still intact against the new variant. it's going to be hard to get a variant that completely evades what's called our t-cell response, because the t-cell response is extremely complex. there are about a hundred different t-cells that line up. if you have 11 to 13 mutations, that will eliminate some of the t-cell immunity, but not all of it, and t-cell immunity protects us from severe disease. >> infectious disease specialist, dr. monica ghandi, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. the pandemic had much less of an impact on the weekend box office where march she will's "shang-chi" broke the record for the weekend, earning $90 million in u.s. and canada. the previous record was set in 2007 by "halloween" which earned over 30 million that holiday weekend. the latest disney film was
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released only in theaters. the second highest grossing film was universal pictures horror film "candyman" which took in an estimated $13 million. last hour we told you about last night's premiere of the series "american crime story." the new season portrays the sex scandal that led to bill clinton's impeachment trial through the eyes of all the women involved. monica lewinsky worked as a producer on the series, and she spoke exclusively with the "today" show moments ago. >> it's not a documentary. it's a dramatic series, but i found watching it, you do wonder, especially because it has your blessing, how much of this is real? how much dramatic license is there? did these conversations really take place like that? did you really call him the treacherous "b" word? >> people will understand when they see the series why.
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it is a dramatization, but there are also many moments of truth. people will be very surprised when they watch it of things they didn't know happen. i myself had -- there were so many margin notes in the script of like, did this really happen? even i learned things. >> there's a scene, and it was sort of an infamous moment in this whole scandal where you flash your thong, underwear, at the president. >> i know. >> here's what's interesting about you, monica. you told the producers, you should include that scene. you pushed for it. >> i did. i did. well, as a subject, i was incredibly grateful when i saw that it was missing, but i realized as a producer, particularly because i was involved that the credibility of the show would have been significantly affected, and i didn't think that was fair to anyone else. but more than that was really i
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shouldn't get a pass. and that is hard. a lot more therapy now, but i thought that was important. i think truth and context were really missing at the beginning of 1998 and throughout the process and humanity, and i hope those are all things we brought to the show. >> would you want bill clinton to see this series? >> you know, i don't even know how to really answer that. yeah, i don't -- >> do you ever wish you could speak to him? do you feel like he owes you an apology after all these years? >> i think there was a long period before my life changed the last six or seven years where i felt a lot in terms of there not being this resolution, and i'm very grateful that i don't have that feeling anymore, i don't need it.
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he should want to apologize in the same way that i want to apologize any chance i get to people that i've hurt and my actions have hurt. >> wow. "american crime story: impeachment" premiers tonight on fx. up next, big tech needs a reset, and it's not just as simple as control, alt, delete. we'll speak with three stanford university professors who are on the front lines of tackling the way social media and the powerful companies behind it are impacting our society. keep it right here on "morning joe." joe. i always had a connection to my grandfather... i always wanted to learn more about him. i discovered some very interesting documents on ancestry. this is the uh registration card for the draft for world war two. and this is his signature which blew me away.
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welcome back. mika, leading up to the september 18 bust on wall street and great recession, i read papers and kept trying to figure out exactly. it didn't make sense. >> right. >> one of the things would stop. i would read the paragraph again. waits this? chop up bad debt, spread it around. i couldn't figure out how it worked. i assumed at the time people are smarter than me that figured this out. and i guess the sec was thinking
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the same thing. ended up they weren't smarter than us, they damn near destroyed our economy. here we find ourselves 13 years later in a similar position with big tech. they seem to be escaping time and time again meaningful government oversight and the consequences could be great. >> yeah. a new study on behavior of facebook users seems to confirm something many of us already knew. "the washington post" reports on a forthcoming peer reviewed study showing that from august of 2020 to january of 2021, news publishers known for putting out misinformation got six times the amount of likes, shares, and interactions on facebook than trustworthy news sources did. in response, facebook said the report measured the number of people who engaged with content
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but not those that view it, which is something facebook did not make publicly available to researchers. joining us, professor at stanford university, rob reesh. computer scientist that worked at google when it was merely a startup. we have also a professor at stanford, and former key staffer in the obama white house and political science professor at stanford, jeremy weinstein. they're co-authors of the book out today "system error." where big tech went wrong and how we can reboot. >> rob, let's start with you. how can we reboot, just like big banks, wall street banks escaped the sec and government regulation effectively because
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$80,000 lawyers couldn't compete with multi million dollar lawyers. how do we not stay one step ahead of big tech, how do we catch up to big tech? >> yeah. the key is first understanding what the problem is. you can't decide how to act or react or contain the problems with big tech that's acquired a big grab over our lives unless we figure out the problem first. the problem we think has to do with ways in which all these important decisions that big tech made about how our lives go, about information ecosystem, our privacy, these are being made by a small number of people and small number of companies, most of them located where we are in silicon valley. the reboot we think is essential has to do with all of us as individuals raising our own agency, our own voices as well as doing so collectively to bring washington, d.c. into the picture.
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>> and talk about the technology. it moves so quickly. and again, such cutting edge. how do we keep up with that technology to understand where it is going, moving, the impact it is going to have on our society. >> that's a great question. there are lots of things we can see now about the impact of that technology. sometimes people would cast the decision as you can choose which apps you want to actually work with, and that's the only choice you have. you can delete facebook or use it. in actuality, we have a lot of personal controls over the technology that we use. we can say, for example, set privacy applications, we can choose to use particular browsers that may have more privacy built into them than others. at the end of the day, the real issue isn't just personal choice, it is about collective action. maybe one way to think of that is the roadway system. on the roadway system, it is not
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enough to say you should drive safely. what we do is have safeguards in place, things like lanes, traffic lights, speed bumps that help provide safety in the entire system, and then individuals work within the system to also drive safely. we need the same thing in terms of tech regulation. we need tech regulation around content moderation and large platforms, we need algorithm transparency to understand when high risk decisions are being made for individuals by algorithms, give them a chance for due process and accountability, and think about ai coming that will impact jobs, what kind of policy do you want around reskilling to blunt some impact of people becoming unemployed. >> jeremy, it is hard to follow the latest technological advances, it is not difficult, though, to look at the impact it is having not only on american democracy but western democracies, democracies across the globe, and also just the
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callousness. i would use an example of facebook in 2016. sheryl sandberg screaming at somebody that went to the board, told them the truth about russian disinformation that was infecting facebook globally. >> i think this is a moment for all of us to wake up and pay attention. it is 100% clear while technology has provided enormous benefits that are changing how we work and how we live, the social harms can no longer be ignored, whether it is misinformation and disinformation that you described, impacts on our work force, of automation, erosion of our privacy. these are effects all of us now live with. i think the real challenge is to figure out what does it mean to energize our democracy, to engage in helping us hold to account the powerful tech companies that are making decisions that are yielding these effects on our lives. ultimately, that's a challenge for democracy.
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it requires all of us to inform ourselves, to discuss with our colleagues, with our peers, with people in our community, but also to look to washington which has really enabled the process of concentration of power in a small number of tech companies, so that we need to be in position where we are holding politician accountable for outcomes we want from technology. >> i guess we'll go back to where we began and ask then why has nothing been done, why can't we hold big tech accountable to an extent to the point that we can understand. this is fast moving, far more complicated. can't we hold them accountable like publishers? >> not in the same way as publishers. the tech industry would have you believe whatever problems there are, they're working hard, they're sorry for whatever problems have been made, and they like to speak about unintended consequences.
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i find that phrase, we find that phrase peculiar. as if we have been talking about afghanistan, as if the withdrawal that happened was just an unintended consequence. we didn't mean it to happen this way, therefore people should get a free pass about it. silicon valley seems to think if you are not intending to create harm, you shouldn't be held accountable for the harm. with respect to content moderation, things we see online, in our news feeds, there's a complicated story to tell there about the first amendment. fundamental to the basic idea is at the moment with facebook, there's exactly one person making all of the decisions about content moderation for a community of approximately 3 billion, and that's mark zuckerberg. an unaccountable king or dictator, an entire information ecosystem for that number of people. that's unacceptable in a place where effects of that platform are so large. >> the book is "system error"
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where big tech went wrong and how we can reboot. stanford university professors, thank you all very much. >> thank you all. such important work. we're so grateful that you did it. please come back. jonathan lemire, let's talk about the president's week ahead. rosh hashanah, first day of the new year, day after labor day. what's president biden have planned for this week and moving into the fall. what are his big goals. >> first day after labor day is where there's renewed interest, summer vacation behind them, gearing up for fall, school year and so on. this is a significant week. he is traveling to the northeast to inspect storm damage, push for the climate change piece of his reconciliation bill which will require democrats to rally
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around this fall. we also have been told in the last little bit he is preparing a major covid speech, likely as soon as tomorrow to talk about the administration's efforts to battle the coronavirus, and of course, the spotlight will be on this saturday, 20th anniversary of 9/11, which will lead the president to mark the day of sacrifice and also the situation in afghanistan. >> yeah. speaking of 9/11, i accidentally said president bush because of that extraordinary apple documentary we saw on 9/11 that i think americans should be watching this week. jonathan lemire, thanks so much for being with us. go sox, please. >> that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up coverage right now. hi there, i am chris jansing, in for stephanie ruhle. it is tuesday, september 7th. here is what's happening. less than an hour from now, presiden

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