tv Velshi MSNBC July 31, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT
taken by officials on the call, he pressed top justice department leaders to go along with his big lie and declare the election he lost to be, quote, corrupt. with zero evidence. the ex-president told the doj phone bills leave the rest to him say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and his republican allies in congress. this phone call happened december 27th, 11 days before a violent mob of supporters attacked the capitol in an attempt to disrupt the country's typical peaceful transfer of power. as congress continues to investigate the events leading up to january 6th we could lerp more from the officials under the administration. the justice department says those officials will legally allowed to give unrestricted testimony to the various committees investigating the ex-president's attempts to subvert the results of the the election. the doj is also now clearing the way for congress and potentially the public to get a look at the
former president tax returns. yesterday the justice department announce the artisty department must hand over six years worth of the ex-president's tax returns from 2015 through 2021. headed to the house waist and means committee. in the meantime a bipartisan infrastructure agreement inches closer to potentially passing. in a little under an hour, senators are back in session to finalize the text of the legislation. and this comes as the bipartisan bill clears a major hurdle on the road toward president biden's desk. the majority of the senate from both sides of the aisle signaled support for the legislation that would put billions towards the country's physical infrastructure like new roads, bridges and public transit. senate majority leader schumer says the chamber is on track to pass both this bipartisan deal and the budget resolution democrats push for in order to begin working on the separate $3.5 trillion infrastructure package before the upcoming
senate recess. that's a good thing. because now progressive democrats in the house are saying they won't consider the bipartisan infrastructure bill unless the senate also passes the budget reconciliation bill too. joining me now is democratic representative mad madeleine dean serving as a house manager for the second impeachment manager for the impeach of the metayou have donald trump >> how are you >> i'm well. >> let's talk about the infrastructure deal. looks like it's moving forward. but we have colleagues in the house who expressed concern that they don't want in important bipartisan deal done without what many of your colleagues consider the more important bigger budget reconciliation deal, the $3.5 trillion deal that deals with things beyond physical infrastructure >> well, i'm here to celebrate the deal is moving forward. the senate is moving forward. that a bipartisan infrastructure
bill -- i'm an optimist -- can be had where we will invest trillions of dollars in our communities, including my own. you know suburban philadelphia and how in need we are. roads, bridges. we need broad band. we need more investment in mass transit. i want to make sure everybody thinks about it tp this is investment trchlgs for the future with an eye on protecting our planet which we have neglected. so i'm the optimist and not somebody saying never. so i -- i hope that both bills move forward and most importantly that america will invest in america. >> you know, you and i talked about the tax breaks for families that have lifted children out of poverty. we have seen evidence that the -- the stimulus provided by the government to american families lifted half of americans who were in poverty out of poverty in the last year. i bring this up because a number of of your republican colleagues in the house are really struggling with the idea that we might give people in need money.
they didn't struggle with cutting taxes for corporations and some of the relateo wealthiest in society. the last year has been instruct of how we might move forward >> it's terrific. notice the focus of in administration and i would say of my caucus, on lifting people out of poverty, about talking about the poor. that is the role of government. it is not the role of government to say, well, we can't help you. it is actually our role, we are elected to help the many, the common good. what this administration and what we have been able to do, democrats alone sadly, with the american rescue plan, is send incredible resources to family- families with the expanded child tax credit. that's lifting 40% of children in my district out of poverty. that's a remarkable statistic. of course we can't do it once and leave it for them to slip back into poverty later. that's what we want.
we also know what happens when you do the right thing is it is good for the economy. all of the dollars in people's bank accounts is actually being spent into our economy, lifting up our economy. >> interesting, though, because we have this feeling when you give rich people tax breaks good things happen and when you give poor people tax breaks bad things happen. doesn't seem that way. i don't know if you heard my conversation moments ago with phil rucker. but the revelations in phil and carol's book about what donald trump was doing and the fact that he made a phone call or several phone calls to the acting attorney general in december of 2020 which sound very much like the phone call he made to brad raffensperger in georgia which sounds similar to the phone call he made to the president of ukraine asking for favors, asking people to sow doubt in the minds of the public about joe biden in particular. but about the election. you were a manager in the second impeachment. you didn't know this information, but i think we kind of all knew it.
>> well, exactly right. so while it is shocking that a leader of the free world and elected president of the united states would desperately call and say call it corrupt i'll take it from there. it shouldn't surprise us. that's one of three data points you pointed out that tells the intention and motivation of donald trump all along, whether june -- excuse me july 25th of 2019, when he called the president of ukraine, the call -- this call on december 2th after the election, and then as you point out the brad raffensperger call on january 2nd, saying i need you to find me 1,780 votes. one vote more than he lost the
state by. this is the way he operated. what i think is revealed as we do investigations, whether inside the house or outside the house, is this is probably three of many, many calls where donald trump tried to use the levers of power for personal gain only. >> congresswoman, good to see you. thank you. congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania. when it comes to the right of protecting voting rights this is fought on multiple fronts. because republicans overtly and covertly attempting to erode the constitutional right to vote. look in georgia. republicans there are taking the first step toward taking over the elections process in fulton county which is home to atlanta, also the state's largest county, also mostly black. what they have done is request a so-called performance review of the top election official in fulton county, loug allowing the republicans to replace the election official with a
temporary superintendent of their choosing who would then have full authority over vote counting apology places and staffing. that's the type of covert effort no amount of organizing by activists will be able to defeat. what's happening in texas is an overt attempt to make it difficult for black and brown voters to cast a ballot through restrictive election bills. organizers and religious leaders are tackling those republican led efforts head on. today marks the last leg of a march through texas where voting rights advocates such as beto o'rourke on the reverend dr. william barber led a group of protesters directly to the state capitol of austin, demanding the federal government take action to protect voters. whether it's blatant or hidden, there is no doubt about how republicans are chipping away at voting rights from all angles, taking federal intervention to prevent this. joining me from the austin in austin is julian castro, form housing and urban development secretary under president obama,
the former mayor of san antonio. he was a 2020 presidential candidate. now he is an msnbc political analyst. secretary castro, good to see you. thank you for being with us. tell me about what's happening you, the marchers haven't arrived on the time mark we're still a couple hours away from that. but tell me what this is meant to be and what it's meant to achieve. >> as you mentioned, ali, this is the final leg of a three-day march which is calling attention to voter suppression efforts here in texas and also trying to call to the conscience of the nation, especially legislators in the senate to do what they can to make sure that everything we see the republicans are doing to suppress the vote here in texas and georgia like you mentioned and other states is held back. and pushed back by the for the people act and the john lewis voting rights advancement act. they've been marching the last couple of days.
today thousands of texans are expected here at the state capitol. willie nelson is going to perform. what you can feel really gathering is a new texas, a texas actually resolved to move forward more together instead of leaving out black and brown communities, people with disabilities and other folks. that is the statement of purpose here. and there is a lot of excitement about it >> those texas democrats who are in washington protesting and trying to avoid the passage of in restrictive bill are the tip of the spear. but they have been after three weeks in washington -- they are sounding a note of desperation to the federal government to say you've got to do something about it. it does seem there is a another bill working through senator warn okay of georgia. but dr. barber who is organizing the rally, that democrats shouldn't give in to watered down voting rights bills more
acceptable to some people, that this is an absolute. either we have voting rights for everybody allowed to vote under the constitution or we don't. >> well, that's right. i mean there is no point in doing it halfway. i think the point the reverend barber and others made is, look, we see what the playbook is. we see what's in legislation like h.b. 3 here in texas. we see the need to make sure that we have a robust voting rights act that restores what the supreme court took away a few years ago. and also the for the people act, to cut out the extreme gerrymandering, for instance. and so the question is, does any proposed legislation in d.c. get there or not? that's a yes or no answer. and so you -- i think their concern is you can't water it down so much that we went through all of this for nothing. and i do think, though, that the efforts of texas legislators and the efforts out here are -- are calling the nation's attention to the need to pass the for the people act.
and i think most of us expect that some amount of compromise is going to happen. it usually does in these types of legislation. but at the end of the day democrats have to understand that they need to hold form to make sure that everybody has access to the ballot box and that we turn back the voter suppression efforts >> i want to take you back to your days at hud secretary. we have seen the expiration of the eviction moratorium today. lots and lots mentoring may face ee likes and be homeless. a number of democrats have been asking for extension until the he wanted of the year. for the moment that's not happening. what are your thoughts on this? >> there was a dropped ball a here, ali, never should have come to this point where the eviction moratorium expired. a few weeks ago, the supreme court looked disapprovingly at the eviction moratorium, the cdc put in place but didn't strike
it down. at that time, the baden administration said, look, we're not stenting it beyond july 31st. but the administration didn't make a strong push with congress to extend it. and congress didn't take it up until the last minute yesterday. speaker pelosi, representative max even waters, representative jayapal made a big push wsh herkle even effort to get it past the finish line. it didn't happen. that means this weekend potentially millions of americans are subject to eviction. we have millions of families behind on rent by one analysis $25 billion worth of back rent that's due. with an average of about $3,800 per renter. sheriff deputies are knocking on doors in the coming days telling people to get out. or cases filed in a number of
states where filings are accepted but not acted on yet. that's going to proceed. i believe that the biden administration, you know, needs to prompt the states that have been so lackluster about getting the $47 billion of rental assistance that's out there into the hands of renters and landlords, needs to prompt them to jump start the programs, because so far only 7% of those funds has actually reached renters and landlords in need. that needs to change. if this eviction moratorium is going to be allowed to stay lapsed. >> secretary castro, good to see pup former secretary of housing and urban development under the obama administration. an msnbc political analyst, a 2020 presidential candidate and maybe relevant to today he was the mayor of san antonio just down the road from austin. still to come the chairman of the house select committee on january 6th says the panel will send out quite a few subpoenas
in the coming days. i'll dive in to who might be called to testify. also on the breakthrough covid cases, and why experts say that's not what we should be worried about right now. welcome home, to the heroic afghans helping american troops during the two-decade war overseas as some arrive in the united states. this is velshi. it's okay, you can stare. when you're a two-time gold medalist, it comes with the territory.
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this is dangerous stuff. qanon lies and people die. right now fueled in part by qanon adherents, a massive covid-19 disinformation campaign convincing americans not to get vaccinated. it's time for the republican party to expunge these conspiracy theorists from ranks for the sake of democracy. e sak. right-hander 200 afghans who work with the u.s. government are safe now in virginia after a massive evacuation. the first wave of interpreters and families flew in dull he is international outside of washington, d.c. friday morning, bussed to an army base in ft. lee, virginia. what you see here. president biden had two words for them as they arrived. welcome home. as u.s. troops plan to fully withdraw next month thousands of afghan contractors and interpreters are under threat.
the taliban targeting them retribution for assist the u.s. military. for more on this imitate joined by national security and global affairs reporter. dan delusp talk to us about what is next for the interpreters and families in the united states. and possibly more importantly those who haven't come over yet. because there are many times the number who arrived who are still in afghanistan >> that's right. for this lucky group they are in ft. lee at the army base in virginia. there is some final paperwork. they get a final medical exam but they were covid tested before getting on the plane. then refugee organizations help them resettle. something they've been doing for refugees for years. as you say,s in a tiny fraction. this was about 200 people. so some interpreters and some of the families. but you've got 20,000 at least back in afghanistan that have
applied to this special visa program set up for people like this. and the u.s. government is saying they're going to evacuate 2,500 only directly to the u.s. then they're going to evacuate maybe 4,000 to third countries to get the paperwork settled there in a more safe place. but that leaves a huge question mark for so many other afghans who worked for the u.s. and risked lives >> there is a technical question here in which either to get out or to get your paperwork done a lot of the folks have to be in kabul. a number of major centers in afghanistan have been already surrounded by the taliban. this is not something the administration fully acknowledges. but reporters there tell us it's much worse than it looks. >> yes, it's actually horrendous. so you have the taliban advancing at this sort of lightning pace across the country. the u.s. military is almost completely gone. there is some left in kabul. but you have interpreters who
have been told that the u.s. government, yes, you have qualified to be evacuated but you have to get yourself to kabul on your own power. s in a vast country, vast distances. and the taliban surrounded places like mazasarif in the energy. khandar city in the north. and we've spoken to afghans and they are making life and death choices to run the gauntlet to get to kabul. en and if they have the u.s. documents on them it's over for them. it's a harrowing situation. the biden administration has come under a lot of criticism from progressive groups and refugee organizations and democrats in congress and republicans saying you should have had a plan in place much earlier once you decided to pull out all of the u.s. troops >> dan good to see you thank you for joining us. national security and global affairs reporter. let me show you the map of the covid in the united states.
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new data collected by nbc news is giving the country a more precise picture of how breakthrough cases process spreading among the vaccinated in the u.s. the findings show that nearly 126,000 breakthrough cases have been found in 38 states. that number represents less than 0.08% of the 164 million americans who have been fully vaccinated since january. of those 126,000 breakthroughs, over 14 -- well i don't really think we say only -- 1,400 ended
in death. which breaks down to roughly 0.1%. the while it seems small in context. the number of unvaccinated americans infections skyrockets by the day. these are all the states in red of new case increasing of 100% or more over the last 14 days. 38 states and the district of columbia. experts attribute most new infections to the highly contagious delta variant. including the cdc. an internal agency document obtained by nbc news lays out how dangerous it is. the headline take away, quote, the war has changed. the cdc says delta causes more severe illness than previous iterition as of covid. it's as contagious as chicken pox. and vaccinated people can carry the disease. and they can be as contagious as unvaccinated counterparts. all this data makes the job of convincing americans to believe in the science and get vaccinated somewhat harder. and the conservative
anti-science brigade trying to turn it to a political fight makes it worst >> democrats love to instill fear in the hearts of americans. i think americans are sick of this, over it, not going to comply. and shouldn't comply with any more lockdowns, mandates, none of it >> it's absolutely factual the delta variant is more transmissible but far less deadly than the virus from last year. >> the cdc issues a new proclamation, according to the cdc vaccines don't work any more, that science thing, inoperative. >> joining me now is a practicing infectious disease specialist. serving as a member of the biden harris covid transition board as a lot of experience with infectious deceases. seleena, good to see you. let's take the thing rand paul where he he said it's far more transmissible and far less deadly. these are terms important to understand.
because if something mass a low mortality rate and lots of people get it more end up dead >> that's right, ali. there are things we learned. one it's far more contagious. the amounts of virus in the nose and throat of somebody getting the delta variant are 19,000 times higher than they would have been with the early strains of the virus seen at the beginning of the pandemic. secondly, the delta variant does seem to evade immune responses, particularly natural immune responses to prior infections. so i would not assume that you are protected against the delta variant if you had covid before. and thirdly, this question of is the delta variant more deadly, does it cause more severe disease, if anything rand paul is incorrect there. there is some evidence it may cause more severe disease. and that's something we are trying to tease out right now >> okay. what are people supposed to
think about in? there is a lot going around -- i talked to somebody on about it on twitter saying if you're vaccinated you're not going seriously ill if you get the delta variant and not going to die. the numbers are infinitely small but it's possible. people have died who have been vaccinated >> you have to think about vaccines and efficacy as probability. what are the chances. what we know is the vaccines are very safe, very effective. over 4 billion doses have been administered worldwide. 350 million doses in the u.s. clearly no major safety issues here. they prevent against severe disease, hospitalization and death. and if you have not yet been vaccinated with a delta variant spreading right now, this is the time to get vaccinated >> so there are -- the numbers, the efficacy numbers against the -- that the vaccines provide against the virus, you know, they were in the 90s in some cases when they first came out. a little lower against delta
variant. but we have to remember every variant is going to react differently. we have a beta variant, gamma variant, i heard about eppslen variant in california. we're not 100% sure where they fit against the vaccinas >> the beta variant is the most immune evading. but even then the vaccines protect against hospitalizations and death. we will see new variants emerge particularly if we allow the virus to spread. every time the virus spreads from one person to another it replicates and mutates. we will see other variants. we need to stay ahead of this. and the best way to do that is to vaccinate everybody as quickly as possible >> what needs -- what's your sense of how this unfolds? i know that's a hard question to ask. but we're 18 months into this and it looked like things were getting better. can we get a handle on this quickly or is there no solution other than some people masking up and more people getting
vaccinated? >> it really comes down to us and how quickly we can vaccinate people. i had been hopefully we would have been on the other side of this in many ways by now. but we have slowed down in vaccination rates. and with some of the employer requirements around vaccination and testing i'm hopeful we see a bump in vaccinations. but i am skeptical that that really will get us to the -- to the finish line in terms of getting everyone vaccinated >> seleen. good to see you again. epidemiologist at bellevue hospital, a former member of the biden harris covid transition board. we'll continue the conversation tomorrow morning. i'll be joined by the director of national institute of health. dr. francis collins. up next a sleepover with the squad. not the kind you might remember. several congresswoman led by cory bush taking a stand at the capitol. more after a quick break. at th
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tonight at 11:59 p.m. eastern appear the moratorium on evictions expires. and congress isn't around to help fix it. yesterday house democrats failed to push through a last minute extension keeping nearly 7 million tenants in homes through the end of the year after they fell behind in rent due to the covid pandemic. two senior democrat aides told nbc news roughly a dozen house
democrats opposed the extension and wouldn't budge. leadership didn't have the votes. the house is off for recess not expected back until september 20th. cori bush is not giving up fighting the for that extension. she is playing outside the capitol until she convinces house colleagues to come back and vote to extend the moratorium. joined by the members of the squad. in a pair of tweets she writes time a formerlily unhoused congresswoman, and i know that people will die if we let the eviction moratorium expire. many of my democratic colleagues chose to go on vacation early today rather than staying to vote to keep people in homes. i'll be sleeping outside the capitol tonight. we've still got work to do. after getting about an hour of sleep. bush is outside the capitol this morning. here is what sthepd to our reporters about why she femt the need to take the stand >> it was necessary to continue this awareness because we
need -- we need our -- the powers that be to understand that we're not just going to let this go quietly. when the lives of actual people that we are supposed to represent, like actual whole people, like human beings actually are at risk by this policy decision. so -- or the lack of one. so we're out here. >> and my friend and colleague will be speaking with her in a little while on a special decision of the saturday show cori bush comes buy in honestly. she did have to sleep in her car. she had to bring up children while not having a house. and that is a difference. because she is not a wealthy member of congress who has no experience with what it mbue like to get evicted or sleep on the streets >> that's right that's right, ali. congresswoman bush is someone bringing -- this is not a policy
issue. not some theory. this is lived experience. i think that's part of the power of what she is doing. we're used to members of congress sort of playing on emotions, and mugging for the cameras. congresswoman bush she made is clear during the campaign and in congress she is there to be the voice of the people she represents, but the voice of americans who are going through and have been and continue to go through hard times. so i look forward to talking to congresswoman bush, as you saw there, sleeping on the steps of the capitol. and another thing we're going to be talking about, ali, as the voting rights. wrapping up a 27 mile march to austin where beto o'rourke and reverend barber hold a rally today. so much to talk about >> we get three times this weekend where i hand over to you. last night, today and again tomorrow.
i'll really looking forward to the show both with congresswoman bush and with what happens in the march in texas. they are really taking a stand for democracy there. good to see you my friend. jonathan is the host of msnbc, the sunday show and a special the saturday show today. join him at the top of the hour. after the breaks while republicans play politics and rewrite history, the house select committee is working to get to the truth about january 6th. the who, what, when and where and trump's prized executive privilege are not helping him out this time. that's next. not helping him out this time. that's next. to their medical appointments. that's why i started medhaul. citi launched the impact fund to invest in both women and entrepreneurs of color like me, so i can realize my vision and give everything i've got to my company, and my community. i got you. for the love of people. for the love of community.
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eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be a different game. ask your doctor about eliquis. when a threat to our constitutional order arises, as it has here, we are obligated to rise above politics. >> if this is just going to be a d triple c we see it as a sham. >> we must enforce subpoenas is
promptly. >> if they had the five members that we the republicans want to put on there we'd gladly go. >> we must overcome the many efforts we are already seeing to cover up and obscure the facts >> it's not something that's serious >> it's not something that's serious. white house minority leader kevin mccarthy and most of the republican party refuse to acknowledge what went down january 6th. the bipartisan select committee created to investigate is plotting next moves. made up of two sensible republicans and seven democrats met behind closed doors to figure out steps. bennie thompson told reporters yesterday that his panel would be sending quite a few subpoenas is and will meet with department of justice officials next week. the big question is how will the committee use its subpoena power? and who might be called to testify? in past congressional proceedings like trump's double impeachments, he and allies were unessentially untouchable due to
executive privilege. but things got interesting, because biden's department of justice recently sent letters to several trump doj officials including the former acting attorney general jeffery rosen saying the extraordinary events in this matter constitute exceptional circumstances warning an accommodation to congress in this case. it would not be appropriate to assert executive privilege. joining me now barb a ray mcquade a former united states attorney and legal analyst. elizabeth holtzman, a former congresswoman, four-term congresswoman for new york. you might remember her from the sharp work she did on the house judiciary committee during the nixon impeach. ment inquiry. she knows about the congressional investigations. liz let me start with you. because under the trump administration there could be hearing after investigation. but donald trump and his peeps couldn't go. the administration, the executive said, can't happen. executive privilege. we're not talking to you. with the department of justice
saying otherwise now, who do you think might be called? could that include donald trump himself? >> well, i don't think they'll get to trump right away. and maybe never, because there may be enough evidence to go against him without calling him himself. i think the critical thing is to right now given what's happened with the justice department, to explore that further, make sure -- they'll want to call obviously jeffery rosen and richard donohue, the people of the attorney general and the deputy -- the acting attorney general and the acting deputy to talk to them. they're the ones who had the conversations with trump. they may also want to talk to their aides to see what they knew, whether the aides took notes. . because we have some very important notes. but there may be other documents that may be relevant. you want to go down the line, particularly the people who spoke with trump, people who
interacted with trump and their top aides, or the people they spoke to about that. then of course you have the people who interacted with other people at the white house. we know that. we know they talked to mark meadows, others in the white house. those conversations also have to be plumbed and checked and discovered. and the justice department is only the beginning. we -- we see the criminality of what happened here goes beyond the justice department and involves the white house, involves possibly people in the pentagon, and homeland security. so there is a lot more investigation that has to be done >> so, barbara, you were both prosecutors. there is always a danger when you look at that list that liz talked about -- i want to put up a screen from "the washington post" about people who might be called. there is a danger of too much, right? mark meadows as liz talked about, maybe the kushners with white house aides, kevin
mccarthy himself, the senator tommy tubberville. and jim jordan who admitted he talked to trump that day. how do you manage all this information in a way that is succinct and meaningful and gets us to the bottom of who was behind this, and what did people in power do to help the insurrectionists? >> prosecutors would look methodically as going up the chain in a case like this. start with the people closest around trump, but who have the -- the more likelihood to speak to you than others who might be willing to dig in. and then you can confront those are digging in with the statements of other people. i think as to the, is it too much, one way to proceed in a case like this would be to conduct depositions of some of the people off stage, so to speak, so you don't put them all before the glare of the cameras.
you could spend hours with them going methodically through, step by step not only where they were january 6th but in the months after the election leading up to that. i think it's a mistake to look at it solely occurring in one day. some of the statements to the department of justice occurred in december. i would investigate it as a conspiracy, beginning after the -- even before the election when president trump was planting the seeds of a rigged election and fraud in mail-in ballots and the like. i think a lot of that work could be done by the committee off-stage in depositions and then present just that which is fruitful to the public in televised hearings >> that's an important point to keep in mind. we talk about it as the january 6th commission but you'd have to be a fool to think this was a one-day occurrence and the seeds hadn't been planted some time ago. let's take a quick break. barbara, liz, don't move. we'll continue right after this break. t move we'll continue right after this break. power.
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this week we learned in some details something that some of you may have suspected. the former president's efforts to pressure the department of justice to overturn the election, written in black and white handwriting. these handwritten notes first obtained by "the new york times" were taken by a former department of justice official, summarizing a conversation with trump from last december, december 27th. it says, quote, just say the election was corrupt. leave the rest to me and republican lawmakers. back with me, barbara mcquade,
former attorney in michigan, and elizabeth hotelsman, former congressman and member of the judiciary committee during president nixon's impeachment inquiry. this is now given the evidence that we're continuing to get something, i don't know what you call it in legal terms. is it a conspiracy? what is it the fact that there was this engineering that could go back months earlier, but certainly into the month prior, that indicates what trump's mind-set was in overturning the election. >> well, this is a vast effort that the former president of the united states made to overthrow our democracy. that's clear. and it's what you mentioned watergate. i just want to say that the words, just say it was corrupt. one of the key criminal aspects of richard nixon's watergate efforts and somebody went to jail for it, his top aide,
halderman, nixon said to halderman, just tell the grand jury, just say you can't remember. just say you can't. just say corrupt. that's a formula of criminal presidents. this is huge and it's going to require a big investigation and a careful investigation, a thoughtful investigation. because this is an effort that's ongoing to overthrow our democracy. and it's also a criminal effort in my humble opinion. and it's an effort that threatens us deeply. and so, when we say, also, about the witnesses we're going to look at, if you go back to watergate, the person who really broke that case open was an obscure government official, no big name, no big title, a guy named alexander butterfield, who knew where the tape recordings were and that there was a tape recording system. this has to be a careful and methodical investigation. i'm sorry. >> sorry, liz, go ahead.
>> just an investigation of how this man and his aides tried to overthrow this election and put himself in power again, even though he wasn't properly elected. >> barbara mcquade, how do you differentiate random people on facebook or a foam pillow guy saying the corruption is elect, and the president asking that of his attorney general, or the president calling the secretary of state of georgia to ask him to find 11,780 votes. what's the distinction legally? is there one? >> yes, as congressman holtzman just said, this is potentially criminal behavior. there is a charge under the law that's sometimes referred to as a klein conspiracy. it's a conspiracy to obstruct or undermine the proper functioning of a government agency. this is the very charge that robert mueller used against russian intelligence officers in their efforts to disrupt the 2016 election. a conspiracy to get together and defraud the federal election committee. and so if they were trying to
reverse the lawful outcome of an election, that could very well be a violation of that law. and those who have power to do it after the conspiracy, could go as wide as the my pillow guy if you wanted to. one challenge prosecutors have is to decide where to cut off liability. but i imagine they would focus on the key players. president trump and others around him, who are assisting him, you know, a criminal agreement, that somebody commit overt acts in furtherance of this plot to violate and obstruct the work of the federal election commission. so i think this note is incredibly important about just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me. it sounds an awful lot to my ear about what he said to the president of ukraine. i don't need an actual investigation of joe biden, i just need an announcement of an investigation and then i can use that to sow disinformation with the american public. >> so, liz, does the public get that that's really serious?
in other words, is there -- i'm sure there are people who are going to say, he just said that. he wasn't going to do it. the attorney general was very clearly not going to do it. the secretary of state of georgia was definitely not going to do what he said. vladimir putin was not going to do what trump said. so what harm is it? the guy just says what's on his mind. >> no, he wanted them to do what he said. and that was the whole point. he was pressuring them. it wasn't the first time. he actually -- look, he knew that it was a lie that it was corrupt. his former attorney general, bill barr, told him -- told the american people, there was no evidence of fraud. so he was just trying to get -- the justice department to lie to the public, to lie to the congress, in order to foster this plot, so he could take up control when he lost the election. that's what this is about. and the american people have to understand, just say it was corrupt means he was telling them to lie. and he was pressuring them. he called rosen apparently time after time after time. rosen, the acting attorney
general. he was pressuring them, and remember, in this very conversation, he's threatening them with the loss of their jobs, also. so this is a very serious conversation. and he's telling them to lie, to congress and to the american people, and to defraud the american people, so that he can grasp control of the presidency, which he lost in a fair and free election. >> you brought up a very interesting point there. he did suggest that he could put his on people in and replace them, to which they responded. you can do that. you're not going to get the outcome you need. that is an important consideration. thanks both of you. barbara mcquade, thank you. former four-term congressman elizabeth holtzman, great to see you again. thank you for watching. you can catch me back here tomorrow morning from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. eastern on "velshi." a very special edition of "the saturday show" with jonathan
capehart starts right now. good morning. i'm jonathan capehart. tiffany cross is off this morning. we begin this saturday with lawmakers in a push to propose a revised voting rights bill before the august recess. senate democrats are expected to propose a scaled back version of the bill in an attempt to garner republican support. the hill's top democrats met with president biden and vice president harris at the white house on saturday to discuss pushing the bill forward. meanwhile, democratic state representatives from texas, who left the lone star state 1k9 days ago ago in order to solve package of a restrictive elections bill remain here in washington, continuing to press congress to pass federal legislation. now, the battle for the plat is reaching the streets of austin, texas, as activists who have been marching since wednesday, descend on the state capitol