tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC July 30, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
>> that does it for us tonight but i will see you tomorrow and sunday morning from eight to 10 am eastern velshi, i'll take you live to texas to talk to obama cabinet secretary julián castro who joins the final leg of the march on the texas state capital and washington d.c. to talk to texas democratic state representative. now it's time for the last word where jonathan keep heart is there for lawrence. >> on sunday morning's, i think we're gonna be doing it again on sunday morning. right, thanks ali. >> have a good evening. >> thanks a lot, ali. it's about damn time, that's how congressman bill passed grow a member of the house ways described the doj's announcement that the treasury department must turn over six years of donald trump's tax
return to house investigators on the committee. the committee first made the request 849 days ago. the bill barr justice department which operated as the donald trump justice department block his return from being released despite the fact that the law is absolutely clear that the treasury department shall turn over any tax documents requested by a tax writing committee in the congress. today merrick garland's justice department says the committee's request to see the records is lawful, valid and should be fulfilled. quote, applying the proper degree of deference due to the committee we agree that there is ample basis to conclude that it's june 2021 requests for trump's tax information was for the committee's principal objective to assessing the irs's presidential audit program, a legitimate area for inquiry and possible legislation. ways and means chairman said this about the decision " as
i've maintained for years the, committees cases very strong and the law is on our side, i'm glad the department of justice agrees and that we can move forward ". and then there's this from nancy pelosi who called the decision a victory for congressional oversight powers. " access to his tax returns is a matter of national security. the american people deserve to know the facts of his troubling conflicts of interest in undermining of our security and democracy as president. " leading off our discussion tonight is congressman lloyd doggett of texas he is the second highest ranking democrat on the house, thank you so much for being here. the immediate question for you is this, when do you get donald trump's tax returns? >> not yet, but this was an important step in getting us there, jonathan. and it is important to remember how we got to this point today, donald trump lied about his
willingness to disclose his tax returns as the public outcry over that began to intensify, he presented us in the committee a letter, a letter from his law firm that there is nothing to look at. not to noting that that same law firm was named the russia law firm of the year. for months at least the house republicans on our committee covered up from, i made six motions other colleagues made motions, they refused to use a law that grew out of another republican scandal almost 100 years ago, the same a law that figured in richard nixon saying, i'm not a crook over his tax deductions. the law is clear, it requires that the treasury secretary or the irs commission who's been delegated that responsibility, shall deliver returns when they are requested. what we have now for months,
then years is an unwillingness to comply with that very clear law. now that we have this decision, it's really a question of just what mr. trunks next tactic is to try to hide the evidence that will show his tax evasion. >> congressman doggett on this question of handing over the returns when they're requested, here is something from the doj decision where it says the june 2021 request seeks the same categories of information as the april 2019 request. but it covers into the tax year 2015 to 2020, whereas the april 2019 asked for the top tier of 2018 through 2018, my question to you is why the change in years requested. why is that significant? >> well i think it's just an updating of the possible request to bring it up to date. i actually think the request that we've provided in the for the people act should cover ten
years, but the main point is that the committee has crafted a narrow legislative request. and that is to be able to ensure that the audit the president kept using excuses being deducted properly, and not the result of his manipulation or intimidation of the internal revenue service. so chairman neill has used that as the reason for getting those returns, he also said that it mentions the possibility of foreign entanglements, we know that the russian money that appeared in some of mr. trump's account, and the effect on legislation here in congress that alleged to taxes. we have a good basis for getting it it's just a question now of a case pending of whether trump comes up with more excuses or files an injunction to block what will inventively happen. when this law is implemented,
he is determined to delay as long as possible. i don't believe any president has tried so hard to hide so much. there is so much at stake here and it's important that we get this information. once we have it, that's not a guarantee that it remains public. it would be a criminal offense if i were to disclose that information prematurely. it will be a matter of our committee looking at the documents in private, i'm sure there will be a substantial amount of them and determining in a report whether any of this should be made public after we see what's there. >> and how soon would that be do you think? >> well, it won't be soon enough for me, i've been trying to get this for years, but i want a fair examination, recognizing the privacy rights of any person, particularly in reference to a president of the united states who can manipulate a tax system that relies on voluntary compliance
for most taxpayers. and that they see this as being done fairly. in that circumstance, i believe we have a good case. but we have to take our time to look at it carefully, but not indefinitely. the sooner that this amount of documents can be reviewed, the sooner a decision can be made as to whether india -- that would take -- a republican colleagues back a few years ago when it was lowers warner, and a group that they were claiming was intimidating right wing organizations, they didn't hesitate to disclose personal returns, they took a public vote. >> i bet there is going to be clambering for some kind of vote like that. congressman lloyd doggett thank you very much for coming to the last four, joining us now are david cay johnston opposed to prize willing investigative reporter who is has done extensive reporting on tax
trumps, and matt miller. an msnbc contributor. thank you both for being here, david, i'm going to start with you because you know all when it comes to donald trump's taxes what do you think congress is going to see when they finally do get that committee, when he gets those taxes in front of him? >> when they get the tax return information there are going to see clear evidence of calculated fraud. and i base that because donald has had to civil tax fraud trials by the state of new york, the city of new york, not only did he lose them both but his own tax lawyer at one of the trials testified that donald had forged his own tax return, so there is no reason to believe that because tax returns will show that he is an honest man, that he's done all this fighting as a matter of principle, he's done it because he knows he's a major league
tax train. >> how but -- and also the state attorney general is doing in new york? >> well, the state level officials in new york have tax information and they have much of it for a long time because new york state tax returns, which they already had, and federal returns all almost identical for residents of new york state. i fully expect that there will be an indictment of donald trump for tax fraud and also for racketeering under article four 60 in the penal code. and the attorney general has only civil authored unless granted by the governor, she is continuing her investigation we don't know exactly what charges will go out of that or civil actions but i think donna will face both civil and criminal actions by the state of new
york and by the district attorney in math hadn't. >> matt, earlier this week the justice department dealt a blow to mow brooks by saying that they would not be defending him, accusing him of inciting violence on january six. today the doj bless the hangover of trump's tax returns, some people voiced concern, i will say bed-wetting, a lot of folks on the left bed wedding over attorney general merrick garland and how he was doing things with the previous administration. but what's your view on this? how do you understand these moves by the attorney general, of late? >> look, i think it was a kid to discovered some of the decisions that the attorney made previously, i disagreed with some of them but i do think the criticism that he somehow wasn't apologize for the previous administration was trying to do their bidding was completely off base, it was always off base. i think he was trying very hard to follow the rule of law.
it's very difficult in your tenure as attorney general, to get control of the justice department to see issues that are coming well and events so you can have time to make a decision about how you may want to change course, i think they had time to make their bearings and they are starting to see the effects of some of those decisions. i think the thing that was so heartening about all those decisions and there are several more you didn't mention this week is that they were grounded in this commitment to the rule of law. not just the commitment to the rule of law but really grounded in principles that no man or woman, even the president of the united states is above the law. secrecy is important at time for the way the government works but it can't be used to cover up wrong doing, that the president himself and his crew niece should not be protected by the federal government when there is serious evidence of corruption and ella galaxy you saw the department acting in all of those areas to sure up
those key principles, i think it shows the attorney general, the other leaders they're not just smart and capable and committed to the role of all, but to understand this moment in time is important to uncover the wrongdoing of the administration and to hold people accountable. >> hold people accountable, matt, to the point of pursuing criminal actions against them? >> i think they will when it's appropriate,, look at wasn't this week but last week the department of justice indicted the former presidents inaugural chair tom barrack on serious charges, i think they won't hesitate when they have cases, not just where they think someone has broken the law but when they think they can win a case in law or they think the corruption or the illegalities so for a that it warrants bringing a case. i don't think they will hesitate to bring up charges. but it doesn't mean that everyone they want to be indicted will be indicted.
they faced serious hurdles. i think that when they had the evidence, i think their actions in the past week show that they won't hesitate to do so. >> david, quickly, the last question to you given everything you know about donald trump and what happened today with his tax returns what is his next move? >> oh he's gonna go to court and try to get a temporary restraining order and a permanent injunction, the law here is very clear it says that the irs and the treasury shall turn these documents over, it's a right to the president have they've made a cholera bull argument, official argument that there's an issue here and donald himself said that he was being unfairly treated by the irs because he was president, that is plenty of grounds for inquiry. i'll be very surprised if you've been the first job, even if the trump appointee rules in his favor. >> david cay johnston and matt miller, thank you for joining us. coming up, stunning new details
of donald trump's obsession to getting the acting general but attorney to declare the election corrupt. more guess when we come back. uess when we come back ugh, these balls are moist. or is that the damp weight of self-awareness you now hold in your hand? yeah-h-h. (laugh) keep your downstairs dry with gold bond body powder.
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trump mob stormed the capitol to disrupt the certification of joe biden's win, donald trump pressured people to declare that the 2020 election was corrupt. that's according to nine pages of handwritten notes obtained by the house oversight committee of a december 27 phone call between trump, then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and then acting deputy attorney general richard donahue. according to the notes richard donahue told trump quote, understand that the doj can't and won't snap its fingers and
change the outcome of the election, it doesn't work that way. trump responded, just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. yeah, he actually said that, trump didn't mention which republicans he was referring to but the notes indicate that at other times on the call he mentioned congressman jim jordan and scott perry and senator ron johnson. all three supported trump's election lies. joining us now are democratic congressman eric swalwell of california, he served as the house impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of president donald trump and is the author of endgame, inside the impeachment of donald trump, and joyce vance former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and a professor at the university of alabama school of law, she is an msnbc legal contributor and thank you both for being with me. congressman swalwell, i need to
start with you, it's hard to believe that the second impeachment of which you were an impeachment manager was just, it was still this year, just a few months ago, is there anything, do the notes, nine pages of notes that we've seen, do they fit with what you possibly saw as an impeachment manager a few months ago? >> part of me which is that we could to impeach him again and make sure that he could never run for office, because he's seeking to do that and he has all of the elements in place to try and overturn an election again if he tries to run for office, so good evening, jonathan, good evening, joyce. this is what we saw, we saw someone who had such a disdain for the rule of law, such contempt for democracy that he was willing to destroy it if it's served his purpose, now we're not gonna impeach him again of course, but we should bring these witnesses and understand what's vulnerabilities he exposed in our government and put in place
laws so that no future leader democratic or republican can ever test us in this way again. >> congressman swalwell, i'm sure you've seen a spy now because it is an instant classic, just here's jim jordan today. >> thank you speak with president trump on january six? >> i spoke with the president last week, i speak with the president all the time, i spoke with him on january six. >> on january six did you speak with him before, during or after the capitol was attacked? >> i would have to, i spoke with him that day after, i think after. i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not, i just don't know. i would -- i don't know -- i don't know when those conversations happened. >> translation, congressman swalwell, your reaction to that? >> i remember every second of that day, sadly and there hasn't been a day that has gone
by that i haven't thought about that day. so that sounds like somebody who thankfully should not be an investigator for what happened on january six, that is exactly what speaker pelosi did not allow him to serve, he is a witness he was part of propagating the big lie, assembling the mob and we need to know what he and donald trump were up to what donald trump knew that day and what he did and most importantly did not do to save lives in the counting of the votes. >> joyce, i'm gonna put up a tweet of yours from today and then have you expand further, euro to the fact that the o.j. turn these notes over to the house oversight committee, the type of internal product they typically fight to protect suggest that they believe this is very serious, potentially even criminal conduct. talk further about that. >> so doj typically will hold close any of its internal products, particularly notes
that a senior official might take during a phone call, that's not something that the o.j. turns over without a fight. but in this case they've made a bold statement indicating that they believe the offense here are so important, and this information is so critical, but they're going to permit former trump administration folks to give unrestricted testimonies, i take that to me that they are not going to exert any executive privilege and also they're turning the fiscal documents, this means this is serious stuff. whether it's criminal or not to requires additional investigation but certainly that investigation is merited. >> and choice, is this information relevant to what's happening down in georgia in the investigation that the fulton county criminal probe into that phone call in which trump tried to put russian georgia secretary raffensperger to, i think it was fine me 1000
thousand votes? >> so jonathan the interplay between those two events is pretty interesting, and let me talk about one way that it might be significant. prosecutors worry a lot about moving a detentions intent, what's he just saying stop for was that actually a cohesive plan to overturn the results of an election. something that makes it more likely that it was intentional rather than an accident or a stumbling was that if there's evidence of repeated conduct, it's actually admissible evidence that you could put in an insane giorgio word to indict, they could likely offer evidence of other similar related courses of conduct like this pressure that trump wanted to bear on the justice department to show that it wasn't a mistake, it wasn't unintentional but there was an intentional effort to subvert the election in georgia. >> congressman swalwell considering you've been an
impeachment manager and devised questions to ask dismisses, what kind of questions should investigators be asking now? >> at this point, we have to figure out what they knew, and who was going to show up on january six? mo brooks we reference earlier, he admitted this week that he was wearing body armor when he gave those remarks just outside of the white house, what did he knew that led him to wear body armor and what did donald trump know about who was showing up? and of course would decisions, did he not make that could've protected the capitol, that will be incredibly helpful as we try to ensure that we again have a peaceful transition of power in this country one that we did not have in the 2021 transition as we go into the next presidential election. >> congressman swalwell one more question to you and you
alluded to this earlier but how concerned are you, really we dodged a bullet in 2020, in that we had responsible people who were being pressured by the president of the united states, members of his own party who did not bend to his will and did not subvert the constitution of the united states, how concerned are you that that kind of withstanding of pressure won't hold in 2022, at the midterm elections? >> jonathan, as i and my colleagues are running from the floor for the evacuation, the thought going through my mind was it can't and this way, this cannot be how democracy dies, and i thought that was going to happen on january six. i would say at best it is on life support right now, because nothing as changed, donald trump is telling people he's coming back in august, mark meadows said some disturbing things today about a cabinet meeting they hadn't plans they
have that they will announce soon, he's assembling a shadow cabinet it sounds like and we still don't have the security posture at the capitol that we need to make sure that we could protect a future coup attempt, and so i am very concerned in the best thing is the unity of republicans and democrats really debunking the big lie and a good knowledge-ing him as president and putting in place law so that this doesn't happen, because or else were close to a flight line for our democracy. >> and on that note we're gonna have to leave it there congressman eric swalwell and joyce vance, thank you for joining us, coming up the cdc says the war has changed with the delta variant. what does that mean for vaccinated people as we approach school and office reopenings? doctor uché blackstock will join us. join us. and one we explore. one that's been paved
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results of a study of a covid breakthrough among vaccinated people. the study convince idiocy scientists that the, quote, the war has changed. according to an internal report, the cdc continued that, delta variant vaccine breakthrough cases may be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases. the study is part of the data behind the cdc's recommendation that vaccinated people should wear masks. indoors, in areas with high or substantial virus transmission. the outbreak at the center of the study happened in massachusetts which has the highest, second highest, vaccination rate in the nation. 63.9% of its population is fully vaccinated. over george july 4th weekend, 74% of the 300 469 people who are infected were fully vaccinated. incredibly important to note, only four vaccinated people were hospitalized. not a single person died. the study concludes,
vaccination is the most important strategy to prevent severe illness and death. in las vegas yesterday, an unvaccinated father of five died of covid. one of his last text messages to his fiancée was, quote, i should've gotten the vaccine. >> our bobby is now don't have a dad. i can't say that it won't affect them, it will. i expected to have 30 more years with him, i didn't expect him to be gone. >> he was the best daddy -- >> will joining us now is doctor who chief livestock, an emergency doctor. she's also an msnbc contributor, doctor that stock, thank you so much for being with us. it's just heartbreaking to see with the families going through, knowing the text message that the father of five sent to his family just before he died.
what are we learning from the new cdc data about the importance of getting the vaccine? >> thank you for having me jonathan. i think what this data is showing, the game-changer, is that breakthrough infections, all those still very rare, fully vaccinated individuals who are infected carry a lot of virus with them, as much virus as someone who is unvaccinated. there is a possibility that those fully vaccinated may actually be able to transmit infection to unvaccinated individuals. and that was not the case with prior versions of this virus. >> let me show everyone a tweet that you sent out this morning and it was a conversation you had with someone on the street, you wrote, just got stopped on the street by an older black man who has seen me on msnbc and he wanted to show that he had successfully convince two friends of his, also older
black man, to get vaccinated today. this vaccination effort is a grassroots effort to. doctor uché blackstock, are more people getting vaccinated like that man, not only because of seeing you on tv, but news of the surge is moving people to get vaccinated? >> we know that in states that have seen, an increase -- most profound uptake in cases, that they've also seen an increase in vaccinations. so i think to some level, this delta variant is scarier, and it's rather motivating people to get vaccinated. but i think other people may be unmoved by. this we know a lot of the kaiser family foundation polling said that people we -- know that especially communities of color, there is a distrust eye towards institutions, i know that a lot of conversations that i have,
especially with that gentlemen who stop me on the street, that was one of the concerns of his friends. but with conversation, patients, a lot of discussion, they decided to get vaccinated. >> what are the other data points -- one of the things noted in this report is that the delta variant is as transmissible as chicken pox. what does that mean for parents of children under 12 years old for whom the vaccine has not even been approved? >> i have a four and six-year-old, i definitely feel troubled by this data. i was concerned. if this delta variant is more transmissible, than most of the respiratory viruses in history. so the concern is going into the school year, ensuring that schools are using multi layered strategies of masking, physical distancing, testing, ventilation is incredibly important. so this virus is just like chicken pox, it's airborne.
so ventilation is gonna be key. and the concern that i have, in those states where the governors have restricted mask mandates, even in schools. we are already seeing surges in those particular states and we probably will see outbreaks related to schools in those same areas as well because of these mask mandates being restricted. >> and speaking of mask mandates, i'm wondering, here in washington, they've been reimposed in los angeles, and they have been reimposed, for folks who are seeing news about the delta variant and who have family reunions and things like that that are coming up, certainly in the next months, since august is just two days away, how concerned should people be about going to big family gatherings as a result of the delta variant? >> i know for a lot of people it feels like two steps back forward one step back, this is
a dynamic situation. the situation is evolving. now we have this delta variant that has grown into a -- especially for the fall. but what i would say to people who are considering family gatherings for august is to obviously avoid indoor areas, and even outdoor crowded areas are also incredibly risky. we are going to have to think about smaller gatherings, just like we did last fall. we are probably gonna have to repeat a lot of those same sort of physical distancing restrictions that we had before, especially if we were in settings where other people, we don't know what their vaccination status is, so things are changing. as i said, it's a dynamic situation, we're gonna have to be able to call just to. it >> dr. uché blackstock, as always, thank you for joining us tonight. coming up, the texas democrats might have won another victory in fighting the texas voter suppression bill, exposing a provision that could've put more than 100,000 peoples
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at your local audi dealer. texas state democrats have been in washington for 18 days in a desperate effort to block one of the nation's most restrictive voter suppression bills passing and a special session in the republican-led state legislature. but to focus on the end of the fight, the bill is to overlook what texas democrats have already won, a provision that will make it easier to overturn election results removed. a provision ending sunday early voting, out. and this, week texas democrats may have won another victory after nicole cole year sounded the alarm during a hearing yesterday about a provision that could put more than 100,000 texans voters at risk of having their ballot rejected. >> i just want to talk about one of the provisions in the bill, misty, forgive, me say
she registered to vote 20 years ago, there is a provision in this bill that would require someone who is eligible to vote by mail to insert their last four digits of their drivers license, or their social security number, or say that they don't have one. now miss here registered 20 years ago, she cannot remember which when she provided when she registered to vote. under the provisions of this bill, if she put down the other number, even though it's the correct one, her ballot would be rejected. and there's no cure or opportunity within this bill to cure her ballot. she would not even know that her ballot had been rejected. >> now here is what texas republican congressman pat fallon said following up. i >> i got a text from your colleagues that are in austin, and on your concern representative collier, what they are aware, they said that
the disgusted with you all, and that they are
going to curate via an amendment. >> joining us now our texas state representatives senfronia thompson who represents the houston area. she used to dean the texas house democratic caucus, and texas state representative nicole collier who she is chair of the legislative black caucus. thank you very much for being here. representative collier, do we have confirmation that republicans are gonna pull back provision? >> you know that's the first time i heard that, i have not been in contact with them, they have not reached out to me. i was unaware in fact at the hearing, the 23-hour hearing that misty, the dean of the texas democratic delegation was at. they offered amendments to the bill, and they were all rejected on the party lines. so this is just another play that they did in the session
where they made promises and they made commitments but they
were all unfulfilled. so i would hope that they would keep the promise, but i'm not gonna hold my breath on it. >> so you have not heard anything at all about what the congressman said to you, just to confirm? >> no in fact i had to go to congress, i had to go to washington tedious to hear from a congressional member that the texas house members are willing to negotiate or make revisions to their anti-voter bill. >> representative thompson, great to see you again. you've been in town as representative collier, 18 days. you have yet to meet with president biden. are you hopeful that you will be able to meet with him in the time that you are here, and if you do, what would you want him to understand about the fight for voting rights, not just in
texas, but what it means for america? >> i would like for him to understand that we are americans who deserve the same voting rights that every citizen has. and that it is time for us to stop fighting the same fights of the past in order to be able to have a democracy. will >> you said something to me in our conversation that i had with you on my broadcast at the washington post, representative thompson, you said, we are regressing, regressing back to a place in history where we want to limit minorities rights to participate in their democracy, just like my grandmother wears limited in her right to participate in democracy. in the end, do you think, when this is all done, when you have to go back to texas, that you will be able to go back to texas both of you and say you did indeed win something as a result of this fight?
>> i do believe we can because when we came here, 18 days ago, it seemed to be an issue on the backburner. but our tenacity and our persistence has caused the lee to be moved to an activity. even today we learned that the speaker of the house, the majority leader and another senator went to meet with the president to talk about the bill. and we know, we need preclearance, and we need preclearance with retroactivity to the three years, and that will solve the problems. we will not have the problems that we have -- if texas was not a state that's 83 and a half percent people of color. police >> were representative collier, what i think this is
going to be the last question to you, in your meetings, in washington here, how prominent is the discussion, or how prominent is the top of the filibuster doing away with, it reforming it, carving out a provision so that voting rights doesn't have to survive the so filibuster we. how big is the filibuster in your conversations? >> i think we need to get to the substance of the measures. what are they going to do? are they going to amend the for the people act and add a provision. but we really need to see is a preclearance provision with the five-year look back. and whether that preclearance is based on historical data of the state, like texas was a history of discrimination against people of color, or are we going to look at those states that are now having a higher rate of people of color and look at the practical implications? we just want to make sure that they are continuing to have
those discussions and moving the needle forward, like miss t said so we can get to the conversation of the filibuster. but we have to start with the substance of the bills, and make sure that they have a consensus so we can move forward quickly. >> texas state representatives nicole colbert and senfronia thompson the, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. >> coming up next week could be make-or-break week for president biden and chuck schumer's very ambitious, to track plan on infrastructure. that is next. we re that is next we everything felt like a “no.” but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices. take the mystery out of your glucose levels - and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us ♪♪
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motion to proceed, a vote that will open up the package to potential changes through the amendment process. it remains to be seen whether there will be any amendments because the final texas the bill hasn't been released? majority leader schumer believes amendment votes could happen this weekend, keeping the chamber on track to pass the deal before august recess. >> the senate remains on track to reach our goal to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. with reconciliation and in directions before the august recess. it's an ambitious deadline, absolutely. but the hard work put in by senators and staff means that we are on the right track to get it done. given the bipartisan nature of the bill, the senate should be able to process this legislation rather quickly. you may need the weekend, we may vote on several amendments, but with the cooperation of our republican colleagues, i believe we can finish the bipartisan infrastructure bill in a matter of days. >> joining us now is so kapoor,
national political reporter for nbc news, okay sahil when will we see the text to this bipartisan package? >> hi jonathan, as of two hours ago i was told by eight involved in this writing that it could be done as early as tonight. now the night is running out of moments left, if i look at the clock, so i suspect it's not gonna be done tonight. but my hope is that it's going to be done tomorrow at some point this week they can begin this process, hopefully to stay on chuck schumer's schedule for democrats. wrap it up by early next week and get the budget resolution done a 3.5 trillion dollars before they head home for the august recess. >> so you and i both know capitol hill, and we certainly know senate minority leader, how mitch mcconnell operates. you've written a piece, what's in it for mcconnell, because he hasn't blown this up?
so what's in it for mcconnell? >> it's a question that a lot of people are asking on capitol hill, and of course mitch mcconnell is best known for denying bipartisan victories to a democratic president. he is self styled himself as the grim reaper of legislation, and he seems to be going or along with the thai priority of president biden. so why is that? and they're a couple of reasons according to many conversations that i've had with his top allies, and some of his critics. the first is that many republicans in his senate caucus want this bill. they are invested in it. that includes retiring members like rob portman, who is in legacy mode thinking of how he will be remember -- how you will be remembered. -- mcconnell is not omnipotent. he needs to give them what they want sometimes, otherwise his own position can be just paradise. the second reason is that mcconnell is eager to preserve the filibuster, and there to moderate democrats, kristen
cinema and can -- they happen to be authors of this bipartisan bill, allowing this to pass will give them the talking point they need to go to progressives and say, see the senate actually works, we don't need to nuke the 60 vote threshold. that in the fact that that infrastructure is popular, there is little opposition to it, and former president trump's mrs. plante trying to blow up this deal have, according to one republican senator i spoke to, had almost zero impact. so there's a little downside for this to happen. >> and can you explain why senator kristen cinema is threatening to scuttle the 3.5 trillion dollar reconciliation bill, what's up with that? >> cinemas said that she opposes the three and a half trillion dollar price tag, she did not say why, she did not identify policies specifically that she opposes, because there are policies in this bill that are kind of a concept. so that's her position, three
and a half trillion is too much. in theory, 3.4 trillion could be viable for her. so she's not trying to blow it up altogether, that said, the fact is progressives but see it as -- they want to fix it to ten trillion, some progressives i spoke to in including probe maya jayapal and others are not happy that she is objecting the 3.5 trillion. aoc accused cinema of trying to nuke this entire process, including the reconciliation bill, which are tied together in the house. these have to come out around the same time in order for speaker pelosi to consider either because the house progressives have threatened to blow up the bipartisan bill unless they get it -- >> and speaker nancy pelosi has made it clear, she said that she wants them together. nbc sahil kapur thank you for being with us. i am jonathan kaye part, you can catch us on a special
edition of the sunday show. i will be joined by beto o'rourke and bishop william barber to discuss their walk from georgetown, to austin. so you can watch us on msnbc. the 11th hour with brian williams starts right now. starts right now. good evening once again, i'm chris johnston in for brian williams, day 192 of the biden administration. and this urgent and critical phase of the pandemic, the white house has stepped up its response to the surge, doubling efforts to get more vaccinated. and also recommending masks, even for those who are gotten their shots. tonight there is a new indication the white house could be weighing even tougher tactics to stop the spread. >> should americans expect more guidelines coming out, more restrictions because of covid? >> in all probability. we had a good day