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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 30, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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this thursday night, with our thanks for being with us on behalf of all my colleagues at the network of nbc news, goodnight. ews, goodnight. >> tonight on all in. >> this is an american tragedy. people are dying and will die who don't have to die. >> a new plan from the white house as the vaccination fight comes to ahead on the football field. tonight how the nfl vaccine push is actually making progress. >> i would've gone the vaccine without the protocols that they were in forcing on this. >> then my interview with the missouri public health official who's being attacked for supporting a mask mandate. >> i ask you, i plead with you, listen to public health and please stand by this order.
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>> plus, the stunning republican plan to take over elections in fulton county georgia and congressman jamie raskin on his plan to expose the truth about january 6th. >> those who attacked you and those who beat you are fascist traders to our country and will be remembered forever as fascists traders. >> when all in starts right now. righ now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. since the very beginning of the pandemic professional sports has been a laboratory, testing policies that we can use to deal with the virus in society at large. remember professional sports teams were among the first few organizations at the very beginning back in the spring of 2020 that had access to testing, which revealed early outbreaks among players. and it all started on march 11th of last year. >> due to unforeseen circumstances the game tonight has been postponed, you're all
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safe and take your time and leaving the arena and do so in an orderly fashion. thank you for coming out tonight. we are all safe. >> remember that day, that was also a tom hanks day the day tom hanks tested positive. if the damage to the utah jazz and the thunders that was postponed because the players, tested positive right before that game. that kicked everything off, it led to the nba suspending it season and then this kind of things started happening not just basketball. and so conducting sports in the midst of a pandemic with an airborne infectious virus that is transmitted through heavy breathing presented a challenge. but, because of the sheer amount of money riding on these leagues, billions of billions of dollars and because they have endless resources, that actually led through innovation. the sports leak had to figure
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out how to keep their sports going and keep making that money and collecting their paychecks, and their tv license and deals. one of those was the nba bubble, 22 teams relocated to disney world in florida where they lived and played inside a bubble, and family members had to test come in and they couldn't interact with anyone from the outside world for months. major league baseball played games without fans in completely empty stadiums. and there were rigorous testing protocols like the nfl were players, coaches and staff were tested daily. so all of these sports leagues have been able to do things that we have struggled to do in broader society because we all do not have the level of resources or funds riding on our success, but now we're watching the leagues grapple with the vaccination problem and they're facing the same roadblocks as the rest of society, they cannot run their businesses safely unless they get everyone vaccinated. they cannot get everyone vaccinated because some unknown number of people do not want to
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get vaccinated, now, on one level i kind of understand this, if i really will myself to try to put myself in the shoes of some of these athletes. athletes are in touch with their bodies, they're very concerned about what they put in them and so i can see why they might be reticent about the vaccine, but i have to say at the same time these are people who are taking all kinds of drugs and medical interventions all the time, pain medications, other types of treatments. also, these athletes entire livelihoods depend on their physical performance. and not getting a case of devoted-ing long covid that could for example significantly reduce their long capacity. this is not a thought experiment, we've seen a lot of athletes struggling with the effects of covid after they got it. like the 26-year-old third baseman for the chicago white sox who struggles to run the bases after contracting covid last summer. one of the brightest stars of the nba tested positive in january, he now uses an inhaler before games.
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didn't have to do that before. 26-year-old, developed a heart condition that took him out of the game for months. this is a real actual risk that athletes are running, not just to their health but again to theirlivelihoods, and there remain a lot of skeptics. even with all the money in the world at stakes and expert doctors at their disposal, literally get this last month the washington football team brought in an expert and immunologist who was literally part of the team that helped develop the moderna vaccine, to just one on one provide players with information about the vaccine, answer questions they might have. and even that could not convince everyone. >> what do you make of the way the team is bringing in vaccine experts, trying to get people to get vaccinated? >> i'm not a fan of it.
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i probably won't get vaccinated until i have more facts, i'm not a fan of eternal. >> i'm not a fan of it. that player had to doctor, who developed one of the lifesaving vaccines to answer questions, this is not something that happens to most people. still, he needed more facts. he's not alone, it's a thing that we're seeing across all professional sports. >> i'm not anti hopeful vaccine pro-choice, some people may think that i'm being selfish and making this a mini thing, it's all about the young players who don't have a voice and a reaching out to me every day because they're being told if they don't get facts they will be caught. >> are you vaccinated? >> that's a personal thing. >> have you gone the vaccine? >> i don't think that's important. >> it's not. it's not a hippo thing. it's not hypocrisy all. it has to do with a health care
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professional sharing information. we know everything about these athletes, i understand, the desire for privacy but if they tear or groin we get a two paragraph read out about their groin. that's public knowledge. there's basically nothing personal about their medical record, so it's not the most convincing argument. as for -- it's the same thing you hear everywhere, and that sounds like people you may know all of your life, it's my choice, i need more facts. not making any real argument, just generally skeptical, they don't like things being mandated and shoved down their throats, is the same thing we have across the country. millions of people. now part of it is being driven by the right-wing political movement that has, from the beginning basically, nihilist lee opposed basically every attempt to fight the virus which could be vaccines, masks, i don't quite understand what they've done that but it's racked up with death toll. part of it is also the fact
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that human psychology is complex, i have a lot of irrational beliefs, blind spots. people have a lot of superstitions or skepticism, it's just how we are. that's what we are. it just happens that this is one of those things that we really need to overcome. and so the sports league are at the front line of figuring that out. so, last week the nfl announced that they're gonna put their thumb on the scale sending a memo saying the new policy that if a game cannot be rescheduled during a covid-19 outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will forfeit and be credited with a loss. the nfl's also reportedly announce teams to make unvaccinated players where wristbands. so the nfl is trying to put pressure on their players to get vaccinated, the players know that some of them are not happy about it. arizona corals wide receiver
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wrote saying being in a position to hurt my team because i don't want to partake in the vaccine is making me question my future in the nfl. but, some players, i think a lot are just gonna get vaccinated so they don't cause their teen games, that is what tennessee titans quarterback did. and what he did, a guy who oppose getting a vaccine earlier this spring? we're starting to see the same thing happen in broader society. several companies like coup goal, facebook, say that they will require employees to get vaccinated when they return to the office. the biggest employer in the country announced they would be implementing a similar policy. president joe biden said federal workers will be required to confirm they are vaccinated or submit to regular testing and other restrictions. he went out of his way to highlight the nfl's policy. he wen>> it will command the nal football league that has announced that if there are outbreaks among unvaccinated personnel that the team risk
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forfeiting games. they need to take every step they can. every day, more business are implementing their own vaccine mandates. the justice department has made it clear that it is illegal to require covid-19 vaccines. we all want our lives to get back to normal. and fully vaccinated workplaces will make that happen more quickly, and more successfully. >> now, president biden is smartly like the nfl not forcing vaccination, like the nfl, the biden policy of federal workers putting a storm on the scale and hopefully by stepping up the federal government will get leeway from other organizations and businesses to do the same. here's the thing, folks, we have to get this done. we are in the midst of an outbreak of the delta variant, there are places in this country like florida and missouri now seeing
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hospitalizations at all-time highs. and keep in mind what we learned last year, because there is a really annoying tendency for all of us to forget, right? it's a seasonal virus and it mutates, we know those two things. whatever we're seeing now is the run up for the fall and the winter, so whatever it takes to vaccinate as many people as we can now, we have to do it. dante is someone who has played ten seasons in the nfl and he joins me now. i'm so curious about your perspective, as a former nfl player, you've been in a lot of locker rooms, what is your understanding of the hesitancy among folks that again, their lung capacity, their bodies their lives are their livelihoods? >> i think a lot of it is kind of where you see players that are in a position to where they feel like they are super healthy, they are extremely healthy and if they get covid,
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the results are not going to be as extreme as we've unfortunately seen around the country in the world. but there are other factors that go into this and one of them is just the fact, some people just don't trust vaccines. and we've seen this not only in the nfl, we've seen this across the country. this has been one of the many ways that we've understood that the nfl is essentially a microcosm of american society. but when you look at this thing as a whole, athletes and you know in the opening, athletes are very cognizant of what they put in their bodies. but, we've taken painkillers, all kinds of other things that have been banned now, not just by the nfl but banned by the fda because they've been bad for us. when you look at it we've had an opportunity, to hear from some of the people who have
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studied vaccines and studied virology and epidemiology for decades, we've had opportunities and the resources to be able to do all of these things, up all of these resources at our disposal and the nfl, i think they came to a conclusion a few weeks ago and said you know what, we need to make a push, and i think that push was what the new protocol they implemented and you see a lot of players from the end of spring, i think it was only around half of the nfl players around the league that were vaccinated or at least had one dose. now that number is up to three quarters of the league of all players that are vaccinated. they're trying to target that last 25%. who knows how it's going to go. but there is going -- there is a lot of pressure on those guys from all angles. from coaches, from their teammates, from the fans, obviously who don't want to have their team is a playoff game by one game because they had to forfeit because of unvaccinated players. >> you know, it's funny, i
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thought it was for a lack of a better phrase, ingeniously manipulative to do what they did because what they're doing is marshall length, or martially that locker room psychology, which is can you imagine being in a situation where you test positive in and a few other people test positive in a big game and you've led the team down and you let the fans down. it seems like a fairly smart way to go about this which is to say we're not requiring you but if you want to cause the team, that's on you. >> yeah, and i don't know how players would deal with that, i think the ones that are very adamant about it, you're not gonna change their minds no matter how much information, which experts come and speak to them, their mind won't change. i know he said he speaking out for a lot of the young players, and i get that, because the young players essentially, especially the younger ones who are not top draft pick, those guys are going to be taking the vaccine whether they want to or
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not because they don't want to risk their chances of making the nfl, i get with he saying, but he's also said some other things that you can still get covid if you get the vaccine, and to all of that there's a number of things that is not necessarily being able to spread it or protect yourself against that vaccine, against covid and now we have the new delta variant which is much more transmissible than the regular covid-19, so there's gonna be a lot that goes into the season, i wouldn't want to be the guy on the end of that who causes my team a playoff spot, or causes my team a home seed in the playoffs because you had to forfeit a game, because you are unvaccinated. u had to forfeit>> donté stallwt football player, even better thinker and writer, it's great to have you on, donté. >> think, you chris. >> in st. louis county missouri their covid cases are surging.
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missouri got hit early by the delta variant transmission is high, this is what it sounded like one of the county council voted to overturn a recommended reinstatement of a mask mandate. >> [applause] >> the public health official behind that mask recommendation had been in that same room just hours earlier when he said he was tackled and racially harassed as he tried to do his job, he will join me live, next. live, ne>> sir, i don't want toe in a debate about what constitutes a mask or not, i commend the 16 year old. madam chair if you do not restore order i will walk away and we will have to have this conversation -- >> excuse me. excuse me because a quality night's sleep is scientifically proven to help increase energy and improve recovery. and it keeps you at your best all day long.
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the new sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing. and it helps keep you asleep by sensing your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. proven quality sleep is life-changing sleep. >> public officials throughout only from sleep number.
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the pandemic have become a kind of public enemy number one. as opportunistic politicians and media have whipped up a familiar backlash politics aimed at mask mandates and public health orders and directed all of this rage on basically civil servants. it just happened again this week. after, again weeks of rising covid cases public health officials there reinstated a mask mandate. barely a day later the county council met overturning this mandate to over here from the crowd that packed the room.
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>> we've lost side of the fact that people shed blood. their lives, their children, their mothers, their daughters for us to have the freedom from tyranny. >> masks don't work in that occasion, the mask do seem to self fear. >> stand with me now. we will not allow anyone to take away our liberties. we will give no more grabs. we will not comply. we will not comply. we will not comply. >> so that was a crowd in the room when one of the people behind the new mask mandate doctor faisal khan, stood up to address the council. >> community transmission of covid-19 attribute-able to the delta variant is now at an all-time high. across the st. louis region. [noise]
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>> madam chair it is my duty to inform you on the record that if the council decides in its infinite wisdom to negate this public health order there will be more misery, there will be more infections, there will be more death. are we talking about shutdowns again? are we talking about sports going away? what is your next move is they continue to go up? >> it's my duty to tell you sir that if the situation continues, all options will be on the table. >> all right. please. >> you can hear the crowd audibly reacting to doctor khan, throughout the hearing he says much of that heckling was racist, xenophobic and threatening. to a letter, doctor khan wrote i heard people doing their impersonation of a putin, that mocked people from south asia such as myself. doctor says that i became surrounded by the crowd and
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members at the crowd called me of fat brown seaward and brown bastard. dr. khan said he reacted by raising his middle finger who had physically threatened him. just a few hours later they voted 5 to 2 to rescind the mask mandate, and you hear the cheers of the crowd. doctor faisal khan the cdc -- he joins me now. dr. kahn thank you so much for joining me, i wonder if you can tell me what is your job as the county director in missouri. >> i've been in this position for a total of five months, i've been in this position previously for a period of four and a half years but i've spent the last ten years with this county public health in a variety. in the last 25 years across the world. >> what is the covid situation right now like in your county?
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>> it's going from bad to worse. as you mentioned cases are on the rise, pediatric admissions attributable to covid are seeing a sharp increase, and i know from talking to colleagues across the hospital systems in st. louis region that they are extremely worried as they see icu beds filling up, and a direct threat to the life of the very patients they seem to serve. >> that was what drove you and i think the others in the department to recommend this mask order, what was that room like to be in as you were there speaking to the county council? >> so, when i walked into the room the first thing i notice was that it was at capacity, it was overflowing, and nobody was wearing a mask. it alarmed me as a public
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health professional because what i could see before me was a potential superspreader event. it for the horrified me to have some people have children with them, and there were a few people in the audience that were older in the 60, probably older. so i was not a good sight. there was palpable anger building up in the audience well before the meeting, as i learned afterwards there had been some the riling up before it. peoples fear could be exploited, in anticipation of the conversation. >> you write in the letter that there are two politicians who were sitting behind you sort of berating you trying to distract, one of them was mike mccloskey who is the guy who [inaudible] pleaded guilty in july from his
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demeanor. what were they saying to you? >> i couldn't make out everything but it was a series of interruptions, staccato sentences designed to throw me off course, every time i would begin to formulate a sentence or think through a response to a question, something was yelled at me by the left or right, i couldn't see who was saying it precisely. but that is where the individuals were seated, at some point in time as you showed in the video, i turned around and asked somebody to please be quiet and let me finish. >> there was also a really un-nerve-ing and disgusting amount of racial animosity that was thrown toward you. have you experienced that before in this position ever and what was that like? >> not in the 25 years that
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in the missouri state. this was truly unprecedented, and it wasn't the entire crowd, i think most of the people there are good, decent people, they would never even think about assuring a violent word to anyone, no matter how much we can disagree about wearing masks, etc. but once the collective temper and emotions of the entire audience had been dialed up all the way to 100 by provocations, and what i would call dog whistle words, it's difficult to return it to normal, as soon as the conversation moves on to something else it was ripe for spilling over and crowd seemed boundaries and that is exactly what happened. some people in the audience took out their anger on me as i was leaving. it was a very jarring and unpleasant experience. >> have you ever been in a room like that before? >> i've been in plenty of heated conversations, and tense
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meetings with the public, that's part of the nature of the work that we do as public officials, our job is to explain science and stick to the truth and the elements, whether somebody agrees with us or not, we absorb a lot of anger all the time, but i have never seen this sort of dynamic at work. it has always been a case of meetings being orderly and controlled from the people cheering those meetings because they understand the importance of careful deliberation based on exchange of knowledge rather than allegations. >> doctor faisal khan, the acting public health director in st. lewis county in the state of missouri that has a bad outbreak on its hands, he's doing his best to combat that. i appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. >> thank you, chris, it's a pleasure. >> coming up, -- >> you're saying this didn't go far enough, is that your point?
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so you wanted to give the gold medal to these people, but you voted against it because you wanted to give it to them? >> no. >> congressman jamie raskin has had it with republican lives he joins me next. the move to take away election control in georgia and squash the vote. that's ahead. that's ahead
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miss fearmongering on inflation, and there has been, some it's worth noticing just how successful the democratic agenda has been. for one, today we learned the u.s. economy grew an honorable rate of six and a half percent between april and june. for the first time since the pandemic began, economic output was higher than it was before the pandemic. it's in the chart peeking back over the level that we saw the end of 2019. the great part about the economic bump in the spring, it was fueled by consumer spending. businesses opened up, millions
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of people got vaccinated and spent money. the other side, millions more people had extra money to spend. a new study found the huge increase in government aid prompted by the coronavirus pandemic will cut poverty nearly in half this year, from pretended nick levels. think about that. the money the government has given out in response to covid -- covid, will cut poverty nearly in half, and push the share of americans in poverty to the lowest level on record. that is a gargantuan achievement under any circumstances, let alone a pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands of our fellow citizens and crippled our economy. the progressive agenda has become by and large the biden agenda. there is some issues in -- and democrats have seen the opportunity to use the federal government to tangibly approve
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-- improve millions of people's lives. there will be bumps in the roads, democrats won't get the political value they deserve. but it is working. keep at it please. this thing is not over the pandemic, economic equality, there is a lot more to do. don't let. up to more infrastructure package is working its way through congress, broadband access to more and -- americans than ever. there is a lot of potential to help people. democrats can only pass this legislation if they maintain congress, republicans are doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible. we will talk more about the latest -- threat into voting rights next. o voting rights next
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back in march, georgia republicans pushed a restrictive new voting election law. it came, of course, following the party's human leaning back to back losses.
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first day lost the presidential race in the state of georgia, than two crucial senate states in the same night which flipped control to the democrats. the response from georgia republicans, was to pass a lot of provisions to make voting acts more difficult, particular for voters of color. the most pernicious part had to do with the mechanics of who oversees elections in this state. georgian republicans clearly have their eyes on taking away the ability of probe dominantly african-american counties to manchin -- manage their own counties to cling fulton county, which contains most of that length and has a significant black populations and votes that are overwhelmingly democratic. donald trump republicans, and it goes back before he had done this propaganda campaign waiting baseless and bigoted black urban counties are up to know, good -- now in georgia, they are taking that racist mythology and operationalize-ing it with a new law.
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it allows the republican state of elections in georgia, to take over local election operations and appointed zone managers to oversee voting there following an auditor investigation. guess what? this week, republicans in the georgia senate took the first step to do just that. they were delighted demanding a performance review of the person who oversees elections in fulton county. a man named rick baron. this review comes back and does not satisfy their needs, republicans think can then initiate proceedings to seize control of elections in fulton county. if republicans are successful in fulton county, they will be able to rip control away from the local government, then they can send in their own handpicked appointees to oversee everything from polling place closures, to the actual counting of the votes. joining me now, congresswoman nikki williams, democrats fifth congressional -- he's also the chair of the georgia democratic party.
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congresswoman, first maybe just a little bit of level setting here on with the situation is. there's a county board of election, and there is someone who has the job of managing those election that the county board a pilots, rick baron is that right? >> it comprises of democrats and republicans appointed by each county, democratic powered-y and republican party. then you have staff that actually run the election system which are hired in part of the fulton county budgeted. it's a body that is running the elections. these are career democrats. people who have signed up to protect elections to administer elections across the board >> one of those people have become -- rick baron. i want to give the argument here, the sort of argument that
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actually fulton county, independent of the big lie and these accusations of ridiculous fraud, have problems managing elections and there are real issues there that folks are unhappy with. >> so, i live in fulton county. i voted in fulton county for the past, oh, a lot of years, chris. i live in this county. 159 counties in georgia. there is a reason why republicans are only investigating one. out of all the other counties that had problems on election day, no other county is being investigated and at risk of being taken over by a republican pair a gram. it's only fulton county. they are afraid to say what we all know is true out loud -- that, is too many people that look like me showed up to vote and fulton county. now they want to do something about that. what we also know, when you look across the board and how we've made changes in fulton county, in june, we had our primary elections.
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the fulton county board of -- commissioners came in to see what happened on election day. they came in got things together for the november election. give people more access to get the lines, down they made sure they had more poll workers. you know what the state did? they passed espy 2:02 to say you can't do mobile voting units. we will not do all these drop boxes to reduce the waiting in line. the republicans are still to blame for all of this. republicans are still to blame for all of this. i will play one of the fulton boards and california talking about this. >> they are trying to set the stage for hostile takeover of our election system because they want a political win to appease believers of the big lie. i can't let them get away with this in broad daylight without a fight. i will not do it. if they can do this to us here in fulton county, the largest
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center state with a target on our back, they can do it to any of the other 158 counties in our great at that's the chair ot county board. my understanding, because of this new law, the state board of elections which no longer includes raffensperger, is it just members of the state? it's just democrats that make up the board and control it? >> there is one democrat, chris. i get to a point as chair democratic board of georgia. one lonely democrat. and we will continue to fight this and represent the true access to the ballot as our voice. we have to continue to do more about this, which is why i teamed up with my colleague, here in congress. we have a bill to get this done. just yesterday, i testified in the house administration committee on this bill so that
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we can make sure we are moving something forward on the national level to prevent these partisan power grabs and force of elections. >> i just want to make sure i understand. you have a county board of the board of elections that is half democrat and half republican, a bipartisan board the way most of them work throughout the country, they are gonna come in and try the state republicans signed this law? now they control a state board and try to appoint a handpicked person by the republican party, essentially, to run the elections in fulton county to run all of it? that's what's happening? >> that's what's happening. they say they want local control only when it's not convenient for them, then it becomes a partisan power grab. it is very clear we play by the rules and we still won so now they are changing the rules. it's the same thing they did with every other piece of this bill that is now the law of the land in georgia.
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that's why we have to continue to fight on the federal level to get things like hr1, which is up in the senate, and we have to get the legislation passed so we can make sure we are protecting the rights to vote for everyone. not just in georgia. we saw what happened in texas. i just met with the chairwoman in the texas delegation to their to make sure we are standing with them. it's not just about one state, texas, it's about the country. we have to standardize our access to the ballots in this country. that's why i still am fighting for the for the people act in hr one. congresswoman nikema williams, thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. >> still, head jamie raskin on his issue to confront his republican -- >> did you watch the testimonies for january 6th? >> it's absolutely an irrelevant question to this commitment right here.
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>> let me reclaim my time -- reclaiming my time. >> what do you want to do? >> excuse me mr. clyde, i look forward i do. look forward i do ity in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some
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earlier this, week e people whd the capitol were indistinguishable from tourist >> congressman clyde is the one who can see himself storming the door and said insurrectionists were similar to tourists. congressman clyde then went on to -- those who defended the capitol that. they congressman raffensperger's not having. it >> why did you vote no on this bill that was on the house? >> the particular bill on the
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floor of the house, all right, was not appropriate. it was not that -- the bill that was appropriate was the one i cosponsored. >> what made it inappropriate? >> because, it awarded those gold medals to those capitol police for all of the times that they have defended this capital, back in the 19 seventies, 19 eighties, 19 nineties, not just one incident. i think they deserve -- they were capitol police officers that died from gunshot wounds back earlier. did you know that? >> so you are saying this didn't go far enough? is that your point? so you wanted to give the gold medal to these people, but you voted against it because you wanted to give it to them? >> congressman jamie raskin is the lead investigator for donald trump second impeachment for the wake of that insurrection. investigating january, six and he's the chair of the oversight committee on civil rights.
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he joins me. now >> congressman, that exchange with you and andrew clyde made all of us kind of sit up. i feel like congress right now is a family in a eugene o'neil play, where there is just this wound and trauma underneath all this. there is wrongs that have been committed and unaddressed, and everyone is going along with it, like everything is normal. it was just bracing to see you not do that. what made you do that? >> well, thank you chris. i think it is a good analogy you've got. if something dramatic happens in a family, child abuse, something like that, most people want to deal with it but affection of people are in denial and want to lie about it and explain it away and sweep it under the rug. that festers, and that becomes an incredibly divisive and
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polarizing thing. i probably am representative of most of my democratic colleagues, even some republican colleagues, which is, i just can't take the lying anymore. i don't want to be pardoned to propaganda and disinformation and the suppression of the truth. >> you are on the committee that had the first hearing -- and, there has been some interesting developments about what that committee is going to have access to, including, guidance for the justice and there is no claim that former officials can cooperate with solicitations of information. are you optimistic that you will actually have access to these ex officials who might know exactly what happened in the lead up to that day and on that day? >> i am pretty optimistic about
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it. we have a great community. we have a great chair in benny thompson, forming a really good staff. i think the law is going to be on our side. of course, we had several years of frustration just trying to get what was rightfully do congress out of the trump administration. we know some of these people believe that they can operate with immunity and impunity and above the law. but we will see at this point whether they can continue to get away with it. remember, the house already impeach the former president for inciting violent insurrection. they voted 70 to 42 to convict, him trump beat the constitutional spread. we still convicted him in the court of public opinion in the eyes of history, and now, the question is not who incited it. we know at least one person incited it, but who organized it? who paid for it? how did these networks of domestic violent extremism get together with people inside the
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corridors of that innermost political establishment to make this happen? how did they do it? why did they do that? are they still out there? we have a strong bipartisan committee with liz cheney and adam king's inner, working with, us and terrific members all around. we are did set on getting at the truth and we think it's an important assignment we got here. >> i want to play for you something jim jordan said today. it was an amazing moment. there are questions about the role of members of congress. jim jordan was asked, he admitted earlier that he spoke to trump on january 6th. he followed up with a reporter. take a listen here. >> there's some confusion over what you told us there on fox news on tuesday night. yes or no, did you speak with president trump on january 6th? >> yeah, i spoke with the president last. week i speak with the president all the time. i spoke to him on january six. i spoke with president trump
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all the time. i don't think that's unusual. i would expect members of congress to talk with the president of the united states when they are trying to get done the things they told the voters in the district to do. i am actually kind of amazed sometimes people think that's weird, of course. i talk to the president all the time, i spoke to him last week. >> on january six did you speak to him before, during, or after the capitol was adapt? >> i spoke with him that day after, who i think after. i don't know if i spoke with him in the morning or not. i just don't know. i would have to go back. i don't know when the conversation happened but, what i know is i speak with him all the time. >> is this the kind of thing that the committee should get to the bottom two? by the way, great interview from that reporter. it strikes me that these conversations -- i would like some record, for
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the record, of who the president was talking to that day, and about what. >> congresswoman cheney said in her very first meeting that she wanted a minute by minute account of everything that was being done in the white house during the attack. we are going to follow every lead that we have got to determine what exactly happened that day, who was giving orders, and what was the president doing. there were already indications that surfaced during the impeachment trial that, while congressional leaders of both parties were calling the president and begging him to call off the dogs, and to do something to help, he just continued to escalate the political pressure on mike pence. the whole thing was to try to get pence to announce new unilateral power to reject electors coming in from arizona, georgia, and pennsylvania, to cut biden's feet below two 70 electoral college, throw the whole thing into --
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12th amendments, and get himself name president. they had 27 state delegations, they only had 27 votes. i don't think liz cheney would've cast that from wyoming for him. that's where it was going. that was the co-answering the insurrection the riot that was taken place outside. taken place outside. that is "all in" for this thursday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts now with ali velshi in for rachel. good evening, ali. >> good evening, chris. have yourself a good evening and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. rachel is on a much deserved vacation. well, this was the announcement in the newspaper two days after christmas in 1901. under an all caps headline, "vaccination in boston." quote, notwithstanding the fact that some 400,000 people have been vaccinated in boston since


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