tv Deadline White House MSNBC July 27, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
k the boat don't tip the boat over ♪ here we go. ♪ rock the boat don't rock the boat, baby ♪ ♪ rock the boat ♪ see disney's jungle cruise. it's time to rock the boat, america. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. the first major investigation by congress into the capitol insurrection kicked off today with a much-needed dose of moral clarity and zero ambiguity about exactly what went down on january 6th. four police officers testified to the brutal and unsparing violence unleashed on them by a mob of trump supporters trying to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. a bipartisan panel of representatives approached their job today in good faith and with a sense of the gravity of the job they now face. never-before-seen footage of the insurrection was played at the
very start of the hearing burying any notion peddled by republicans loyal to trump that the insurrection was not violent or a tourist visit or not an insurrection at all. we have to warn you now that these images are disturbing. >> lock the shields! lock them together! lock them together! >> we need fresh patriots to run! >> he needs a break! >> jimmy, get him to the back. get him to the back. get him to the back. let's get some fresh faces on the front. >> the officers who were on the front lines of the fight to defend the capitol that day told the committee in stark and clear detail about what they faced that day, their fears that they
would be murdered by the attackers and the trauma that haunts them to this day. >> on january 6, for the first time i was more afraid to work at the capitol than my entire deployment to iraq. the rioters called me traitor. a disgrace. and shouted that i, i, an army veteran and a police officer, should be executed. after order had finally been restored at the capitol and many hours, i arrived home at nearly 4:00 a.m. on january 7th. i had to push my wife away from me because she wanted to hug me. i told her no, because of all the chemicals that my uniform had on it.
sorry. >> i heard chanting from some in the crowd, "get his gun and kill him with his own gun." i was aware enough to recognize i was at risk of being stripped of and killed with my own firearm. i was electrocuted again and again and again with a taser. >> one man tried and failed to build a rapport with me shouting "are you my brother?" another takes a different tack shouting "you will die on your knees." i was defenseless and gradually sustaining injury from the increasing pressure of the mob. directly in front of me, a man seized the opportunity of my vulnerability, grakd the front of my gas mask and used it to beat my head against the door. >> one woman in a pink maga shirt yelled, you hear that guys? this [ bleep ] voted for joe biden. and then the crowd, perhaps around 20 people, joined in
screaming, boo! another black officer later told me he had been confronted by insurrectionists in the capitol who told him, put your gun down and we'll show you what kind of [ bleep ] you really are. >> members of the committee were seemingly aware that their investigation is going to be the best weapon we've got against the disinformation campaign being waged right now today as we speak by republicans and the disgraced ex-president. >> you hear former president trump say, quote, it was a loving crowd. there was a lot of love in the crowd. how does that make you feel? >> it's upsetting. it's a pathetic excuse for his behavior, for something that he himself helped to create, this monstrosity. i'm still recovering from those hugs and kisses that day that he claimed that so many rioters,
terrorists were assaulting us that day. he egged them to continue fighting. the only thing that he has sacrificed is the institutions of the country, and the country itself only for his ego because he want to continue -- he wants the job but he doesn't want to do the job. >> and the other republican on the committee, adam kinzinger, visibly emotional as he addressed the officers and took stock of just how important the work of the committee is to the health of our democracy. >> you guys won. you guys held. you know, democracies are not defined by our bad days. we're defined by how we come back from bad days. how we take accountability for that. and for all the overheated rhetoric surrounding this
committee, our mission is very simple. it's to find the truth and it's to ensure accountability. like most americans, i'm frustrated that six months after a deadly insurrection breached the united states capitol for several hours on live television, we still don't know exactly what happened. why. because many in my party have treated this as just another partisan fight. it's toxic and it's a disservice to the officers and their families, to the staff and the employees at the capitol complex, to the american people who deserve the truth, and to those generations before us who went to war to defend self-governance, because self-governance is at stake. >> the january 6 select committee beginning its search for the truth is where we start today with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. luke broadwater is here. a congressional reporter for "the new york times." also joining us, matt dowd, political strategist and founder
of country over party. and yamiche alcindor joins us, white house correspondent for pbs news hour, moderator of "washington week" and an msnbc contributor. luke, i thought of you. i thought of reporters who cover that building who have been bringing us sort of the humanity of what went on that day and there is nothing like hearing from these officers, whose politics are indecipherable from any one side but whose victimization at the hands of people who were sent by donald trump to do exactly what they did is undeniable after today's hearings. your thoughts. >> yeah. i was in the hearing room today. i would say it was gut wrenching, it was heart breaking. the testimony was visceral, as you just played. i don't know how anybody can watch it and think that this was a tourist visit or a normal day
at the capitol as has been said. i know personally i thought it was hard to watch. when you hear stories about an officer being crushed in the door, when you hear about an officer who they attempted to gouge out his eye, when you hear racist slurs being thrown about, it's hard not to watch that and feel emotional and feel it very viscerally. i think you saw the committee that way. you saw officers crying as the never-before-seen video was played of the attack. you saw members of congress crying. i saw at one point one of the officers reached over to put his arm around another officer to comfort him. you know, to me it sort of cut through the sort of partisan back-and-forth we've been seeing about this issue for a while
now, the talking points on either side, and it got right down to the heart of the matter which is what actually happened that day. what are the facts, what are the details, and what really happened. i think we heard pretty damning testimony today about what happened. >> i think that, yamiche, what was clearly important to the members of the select committee was laying down the pillars and the foundations of the facts of the insurrection. who did it, why were they there. why did they say they were there? why did they say they did it? let me play some of the testimony from the officers about their interactions with the mob. >> it was a prolonged and desperate struggle. the rioters attempted to breach the capitol were shouting, "trump sent us. pick the right side.
we want trump." all of them were telling us trump sent us. >> one man tried to start a chant of "four more years." another shouted "do not attack us, we're not black lives matter" as if political affiliation is how we determine when to use force. a man in a qanon hoodie exclaims this is the time to choose which side of history to be on. a man who wore a shirt that said god, guns and trump stood behind him holding a trump flag. >> they were addressed in clothing adorned with political slogans, make america great again, donald trump 2020, things of that nature. they were wearing military-style clothing, kevlar vests, kevlar helmets. many of them had gas masks. quite a few had shields which they had taken away from law enforcement officers.
they were using them to beat us at the front line. >> yamiche, i think it's important to always remember that everything we saw today was something that mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy had bet the farm on blocking. they bet all of their political fortunes in the midterms and the next presidential on making sure we never saw any of this. we never heard the law enforcement officials testify as to who attacked them, who mutilated them, who tased them, who sprayed them with bear spray. >> you know, nicolle, this is possibly one of the most important if not the most important hearing i've ever covered in my career. to hear these officers talk about defending the u.s. capitol, defending democracy against racist, against white supremacists, against people who knew exactly who sent them there, former president trump. what's sticking with me is
officer harry dunn who said very clearly if a hit man kills somebody, not only does he go to jail, but the person who hires him, he goes to jail too, and he told congress, i want you to get to the bottom of that. and the bottom of that is what did the former president know. who knew what when? what were these people told before, during and after this attack? this is -- this has become a sort of political football, as you alluded to, with republicans saying one thing and democrats saying another. but here are these officers, these heroes, telling us this is what american democracy means to us. it means that we put our lives on the line, that we defended ourselves against this crazy crowd who was repeating the things that only former president trump had told them. someone who told them to go to that capitol. i think it's so easy to forget when we're talking about lawmakers calling this a tourist visit and saying that these were loving people that this was so much worse than what we can all remember. that we kind of know what
happened on january 6th, but when you talk to these officers and you hear these officers, there's a new understanding every single day of what happened on january 6th because it was an insurrection. it was the worst thing that has ever happened to the u.s. capitol in my lifetime, in your lifetime, in all of our lifetimes. and i think that this testimony really underscores the work of this committee and what they have to do, which is find out what the hell happened, excuse my language, and figure out who's responsible. >> i think we can suspend any language rules today. one of the -- some of the testimony from officer fanone was, i think, so clear because he didn't mince his words. it was that kind of day. liz cheney, matt dowd, not mincing her words. and today is the day when democrats don't need to call republicans a disgrace because liz cheney did it for them. watch. >> look, almost every member of the republican conference
understood in days immediately after january 6th what had actually happened and many of them said so publicly. and the fact that so many members of our leadership and others, the fact that they have gone from recognizing what happened on the 6th to protesting in front of the justice department on behalf of those who were part of the insurrection is something that i can't explain. i think it's a disgrace, and i know that this committee will be focused on getting to the truth of what happened in a nonpolitical, nonpartisan way. >> matt dowd, you've said it before. liz cheney not a functioning part of this iteration of the republican party. she made that separation abundantly clear today. >> well, i think that's very clear. what's also clear is that since liz cheney and adam kinzinger are being attacked by almost every other republican in the caucus, including the leadership
of it, it shows you that they're not interested in truth. if you speak truth as a republican, whatever the issue is, especially as related to this -- what happened on this insurrection attack by the terrorists, whether it's on health or whatever it happens to be, you can't -- you don't fit in the republican caucus. and i'm glad. i was really happy to see liz cheney. i disagree with liz cheney on a number of issues, but there's no doubting she is a very principled conservative in this. i think one thing out of this hearing today and hopefully in the days going forward that i hope happens is that the date of january 6th is burned into our psyche just like 9/11 has been burned into our psyche as a date and just like december 7th, 1941, is burned into our psyche. this is a date that will live in infamy, to quote fdr. i think it's important to go through this. this is not just one day, bad things happened on one day, this
is an attack on our democracy ininstigated by the president of the united states and now enabled by one of the major legacy parties of the country. an attack on our democracy, physical terrorist attack on our democracy is now being enabled by one of the major two political parties. so this date, 1/6, january 6th, needs to know indelible in our minds and we shouldn't forget it. the democrats i hope will run on this in 2022, but mostly i hope we get to the truth. but i hope the american public burns this in their heart and soul about what happened. >> well, and, you know, luke, i was watching over on fox news to see how much of the hearing they were taking. for most of the clips that i showed, most of that was aired on fox news. i wonder what you make of how serious it is to sort of breaking down many, many months
now of lies that have been peddled by prominent elected republicans, to take matt dowd's parallel. i mean these were the people running into the building. these were the people sort of defending kevin mccarthy and speaker pelosi with their bodies. they were mutilated and tased so none of our lawmakers were. what do you think seeing and hearing from the law enforcement officials in their own words, what political impact could that have? could that sort of shake things loose in terms of recognizing them and, you know, acknowledging their heroics that day? >> well, it could if people were willing to watch it. that's the big question. i'm not sure what they're showing on oan or newsmax. we know that speaker -- i'm sorry, leader kevin mccarthy did not watch the hearing. he told reporters that afterwards. but if he -- anyone who did
would have seen officer fanone talk about being dragged down the steps by the mob and struck repeatedly with a taser. being beaten with fists. being beaten with what he believed were metal objects. of calling for the rioters to stop their attack and telling them that he had kids. and then passing out unconscious for at least four minutes afterwards and being diagnosed with a heart attack, traumatic brain injury, ptsd. so you can't deny and downplay and whitewash if you actually listened to this hearing. the question is whether people will do that. and it was interesting in harry dunn's testimony, officer dunn, he thanked two republicans that day, one of whom had given him a hug afterwards and pledged to get to the bottom of an endless violence and also kevin
mccarthy, who spoke and condemned the violence that day. but now has done this about-face and has gone from blaming president trump for what happened, vowing an investigation to get to the bottom of it, condemning the violence, but now standing in the way and blocking bipartisan attempts to investigate. >> i mean, yamiche, mccarthy's role is more sinister than even luke has put out there. mccarthy has pledged revenge. he's out smearing kinzinger and cheney. i mean mccarthy's about-face is more egregious than changing his public tune. he was sending scalise out there to undermine the deal that congressman katko cut on behalf of kevin mccarthy. the republican role is more sinister than just forgetting the horrors that seem to be
underscored. i wonder if you think that will be revealed. this is "the post" editorial about the questions for republicans. there's much for this select committee to uncover. top of the list is precisely what then president trump did before, during and after the attack. how did he prepare his speech preceding the insurrection in which he told the crowd to fight. what did he anticipate his audience's reaction would be? when did he know the pro trump mob was threatening the capitol? why did he offer only mild statements long after the danger was clear? did trump-affiliated rally organizers coordinate with extremist groups? answering these questions calls for subpoenaing former white house chief of staff mark meadows, ivanka, jared kushner and other white house aides with useful information. and that's sort of the tip of the iceberg. the questions go on to what the commander in chief, if he was functioning as such, told the pentagon to do. i mean the questions, if they're going to send subpoenas out starting immediately, which they
have indicated they are, really all land at the white house. >> they absolutely all land at the white house. and i remember january 6th and reporting from the white house. i remember thinking how safe and calm the white house was as the capitol was being broken into. former president trump was watching all this on tv, surround ed by all the people you just mentioned, his family, his kids, white house aides, enjoying this for a bit before realizing that it was getting out of hand and violent, but still not speaking out until white house aides essentially pleaded with him. you have the house minority leader kevin mccarthy based on my reporting and other people's reporting, he called the president, yelled at him. but then there's this evolution of the republican party that was centered at this hearing. these officers were saying essentially at one point the republicans also understood how serious january 6th was and then politics came into play and president trump came into play and you started seeing the gop
worshipping at the altar of former president trump because, of course, former president trump still has a lot of significance and power in the republican party. but liz cheney, i think, really underscored what's at stake for republicans. she said very clearly, i have had so many political differences on policy with these democrats. but she said the republicans have a big question to answer, and that is do you love your country or your party more and will you hold on to this republic if we can hold on to it? so i think what you hear with adam kinzinger and liz cheney is this real question to republicans about whether they feel they can separate from former president trump when it comes to really saving our american democracy. because let's remember that this threat isn't going away, nicolle. i'm sorry if i'm going too long. but this threat isn't gone. the general idea of what general mark milley and esper and what they feared about our country, american nazis taking over, that can still happen.
as a reporter, i talk to those people all the time. that can still happen. and that to me is why this committee's work is so important because we have to figure out as liz cheney said, are we going to have another january 6th every four years. >> no, it's the most important point. adam kinzinger made the point too, i'm not doing this work on this select committee despite the fact that i'm republican. i'm doing it because i'm a republican. and certainly undergirding all of this is the current and ongoing domestic violent extremism terror threat that we face as a country. luke broadwater, yamiche alcindor, thank you for starting us off. matt dowd is sticking around. when we come back, we will talk more and hear more from the officers on the trauma they suffered that day, still haunting them six months later. congressman eric swalwell who has become an advocate for those officers will join us with his reaction. plus powerful words from officer harry dunn as we've been
discussing, not only having to physically fight off the mob but also having to confront racist attacks from donald trump supporters. later in the show, the cdc today revising guidelines on masks. another twist for americans trying to fight off the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. nywhere. i'm so glad you're ok, sgt. houston. this is sam with usaa. do you see the tow truck? yes, thank you, that was fast. sgt. houston never expected this to happen. or that her grandpa's dog tags would be left behind. but that one call got her a tow and rental... ...paid her claim... ...and we even pulled a few strings. making it easy to make things right: that's what we're made for. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for.
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outright denying what happened. i feel like i went to hell and back to protect them and the people in this room. but too many are now telling me that hell doesn't exist, or that hell actually wasn't that bad. >> people need to understand the severity and the magnitude of the event that was happening that day. we were all fighting for our lives to give them -- to give you guys a chance to go home to your family, to escape. >> for those of us in the capitol police who serve and revere this institution and who love the capitol building, it was the saddest day for us as well. more than six months later, january 6th still isn't over for me. >> officers fanone, gonell and dunn speaking about how the memories from january 6th have not faded at all from their minds. the capitol police chief saying
he's proud of the officers who had the courage to share their stories and equally proud of all who fought like hell to protect our democracy. joining us now is congressman eric swalwell who helped lead the effort to have officer fanone sit down with gop leader mccarthy. we know it happened. officer's fanone's request of mccarthy didn't come true at all. i wonder what you thought watching these men who you've come to know very well pleading for the truth to simply be respected and heard and believed by everyone, including in that building? >> i'm so grateful for those guys. i'm so grateful for the men and women who fought in hand-to-hand combat that day to make sure that every american's vote was counted and that lives were saved. they gave the truth of what happened that day. right now kevin mccarthy and donald trump are trying to erase the heroism. the heroism of those cops will
not be erased from the story of america and that was ensured today with that testimony. >> where does the committee's work need to go next to sort of stay on this high ground, adhering to the truth, relying on firsthand witnesses? >> i think harry dunn said it best. who hired the hit man? that's the question that needs to be answered. you know, those individuals, as we pored through the fbi statements and as we prepared our case for the impeachment trial in the senate, it was so obvious that to a tee they all said they were called there, they were aimed at the capitol by donald trump. and so understanding was donald trump the one who hired the hitman so to speak and what other individuals helped him. what did donald trump not do as the capitol was under attack? so much more that needs to be answered. but contrast what happened today with democrats working with
reasonable republicans to find the truth, to honor the heroes, with kevin mccarthy's gop. you have elise in wonderland, miss stefanik, going down this conspiracy rabbit hole blaming nancy pelosi. you have marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz sympathizing with the terrorists and coddling the cop killers. really a contrast of two different parties today and how they honor america's heroes. >> yeah. liz cheney called the republicans a disgrace in the harshest terms possible. i wonder what you think the republicans will dos athe days go on? the public sees two well-known branded household names. i mean liz cheney is a known -- if you know anything about liz cheney, you know she and her father are sort of typical, standard conservatives in this country. i have peeked over on fox news. they were taking a lot of the hearing today. what do you think kevin mccarthy
so desperately didn't want his supporters and fox viewers to see or hear, and what do you think he'll do? >> kevin mccarthy does not want americans to know the truth about that day because the truth really is aimed at him because he has enabled the big lie with donald trump. but, nicolle, you and i both grew up in bay area republican families. this is not the republican party that my parents told me about. you know, this is not the party of ronald reagan. my dad was a police officer. he's horrified by anybody who would choose to honor donald trump, to dishonor the police. and that's what they're seeing, whether it's voting against security assistance to fortify the capitol, whether it's voting against the gold medals for the officers, whether it's saying that the officer who killed ashli babbi. t t was an executioners, whether it's saying the fbi was responsible or walking away from the select committee, time after time they are dishonoring the
police to honor donald trump. >> what have two impeachment trials taught you and your colleagues about how and when and how aggressively to pursue subpoenas of the executive branch -- former executive branch officials? >> that when it comes to finding the truth, there's certainly the pressures of time, but there's also weighing that against the responsibility to history. if we do not cement this story, the ground truth so to speak, it will be erased by people who have an alternative motive. and so making sure that we get every relevant witness in there and that we fight to make sure that that testimony is secured, that congress' oversight capabilities as a co-equal branch of government is honored, that's so important. the select committee does not have the same pressures that we had in the senate. and so i really respect chairman thompson saying no witness is off the table.
>> congressman eric swalwell, thank you for spending some time with us on a day like today. we're grateful. >> thanks. up next, harry dunn on the racism he faced while at work at the capitol during the insurrection. that's next. th'sat next. pool floaties are like whooping cough. amusement parks are like whooping cough. even ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. sometimes followed by vomiting and exhaustion. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination because whooping cough isn't just for kids. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination we did it again. verizon has been named america's most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row.
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predominantly white and angry crowd on january 6th. in his opening statement, officer dunn recalled what it felt like to be on the receiving end of so many racial slurs before asking that day, is this america? later in the hearing, dunn was asked to elaborate. >> to answer your question, frankly, i guess it is america. it shouldn't be, but i guess that's the way that things are. but it's not the -- it's not the side of america that i like. it's not the side that any of us here represent. we represent the good side of america, the people that actually believe in decency, human decency, and we appeal to just the good in people. that's what we want to see. >> it's a remarkable moment from a man who faced brutal racist attacks simply for defending his country and doing his job. now listen to the way officer hodges, who is white, described some of his interactions with the same crowd. >> and they would -- some of
them would try to recruit me. one of them came and said "are you my brother?" there are many -- many known organizations with ties to white supremacy had a presence there. like 3%ers, oath keepers, than kind of thing. everyone i've ever -- people who associate with donald trump find more likely to subscribe to that kind of belief system. >> let's bring into our conversation eddie glaude, chair of the african-american studies at princeton university, lucky for us an msnbc contributor. matt dowd is still with us. eddie glaude, your reaction to what we saw today. >> well, it was powerful testimony. like you, i was moved in every
way. i was reminded, though, nicolle, of a study that came out of the university of chicago and it was a study of the makeup of those who protested. most of them were older and more professional. many of them came from counties, blue counties that voted for joe biden but counties where the demographics were changing. they felt like they were being displaced. that in some ways what was being revealed in the context of that study and over the footage is white resentment, white fear, terror and panic. that there is this kind of motivation that goes beyond the 3%ers and oath keepers and proud boys, but evidenced in our everyday lives that some folks are clinging to this idea that america has to remain a white nation. remember stop the steal has everything to do with voters in atlanta, in detroit, in philadelphia, in milwaukee, in maricopa county, black and brown voters, young voters. so this is in some ways a white
mob arguing for a white nation it seems to me. >> well, and matt dowd, eddie yesterday called them rolling civic power outages. this sort of intermittent but unending periods now of just blacking out any sort of bond to one another as human beings. when you hear the testimony of a black officer and a white officer making the same very clear and unequivocal observations and reporting back to the public and to that committee that the attackers were chanting racist slurs, they were there to defend exactly what eddie articulated, and i would add that the voter suppression laws are targeted at the very same counties. i'd add houston and some of the purple and blue counties in your home state. >> well, you know, it's hard to
have empathy, shared empathy if you actually don't believe somebody belongs, right? so it is not surprising to me that we've lost a sense of dignity and empathy because there's a significant minority portion of the country, a minority as in a white portion of the country, who fundamentally doesn't believe all men and women are created equal. and this isn't just about race. it is broader than that. it is about a diverse america that includes diverse sexuality, its diversity of race, diversity of sex, diversity of thought, diversity of religious or non-religious experience. and i think one thing to keep in mind is that our american experiment, and eddie wrote a great book about this -- or not about this, but raised many of these questions in it, is through the history of our country there's been a significant portion of the country that has constantly fought against this experiment.
it happened in the revolutionary war. a third of america sided with the monarchy. it happened in the civil war. a third of america supported slavery and fought the union to try to break up the union. it happened in civil rights. a third of america fought on expanding civil rights. it happened with women's rights. a third of america fought women's right to vote. that third of america has not been excavated in a way to remove the poison of it. and donald trump -- give donald trump credit for one thing. donald trump recognized that when he came down that escalator. and the things he said and what he did directly appealed to that. 1/6, january 6th ended up to be a whole crowd of folks. and the other thing i'll say is 20 years ago, 95% of the people that held economic or political power in our country were white christian male heterosexuals. today that number is 85%.
so not a huge drop, but a drop. and that's what worries. and what's funny about it -- or not funny, ironic about it is white christian heterosexual males represent 25% of the country and they're not satisfied with having only 85% of the power. >> that's an incredible statistic. now that you've introduced those numbers, i'm never going to get them out of my head. eddie, i want to come back to you, though, on something that disturbed me. watching kinzinger and liz cheney operate both in good faith as members of the committee but unafraid to bear their true feelings about their own party and to show the despair and the horror, for me in some ways gave me this thing that i've described as the gateway to despair. it gave me hope. what did you feel watching republicans participate with
democrats in an investigation into the insurrection? >> well, you know, i'm always heartened, nicolle, when there are those that speak even against those who are among their tribe, as it were, to the hollowness of heart that is the united states right now, that seems to describe the u.s. see that third of america that matt described, those folks are easy to identify, nicolle. the more difficult -- the loud racists are easy. the more difficult for us are those who stand silently while they do what they do. the ones who are willing to compromise with them. the ones who are willing to allow them to jeopardize our very way of life. the loud racists are who they are. the question is what are you going to do? what are those who claim to be committed to democracy, what are they going to do?
oftentimes we see us kind of in so many ways -- i'm sorry, i'm kind of doing what i typically do here. >> don't stop. >> we kowtow to them. we give the country over to them. they're not the problem. king wasn't writing to them in the letter to the birmingham jail. he was writing to those folks that are silent in the face of them. so it's not about officer dunn, who experienced those horrifying racial epithets, it's not about my anger, it's about what you and matt and other white americans who are committed to a multi racial democracy, what are we going to do in the face of this third who have the country by the throat once again. >> matt, what are we going to do? >> well, i'm completely agree with eddie, as i have said before. it's up to us in many ways. we constantly put the burden on minority groups to defend
themselves and whites sit back and say, well, you guys defend yourselves. i like you and you go defend yourselves. it's up to us, especially people like me, who is a white, christian heterosexual male. but i think this hearing is great. i think exposing the rot that exists in america is all part of this. i think that's incredibly important. but in the end it's going to be up to americans to decide is this who we are or is this who we're not. and that's going to be decided, the only fundamental way to hold leaders to account is in the elections. and if americans aren't willing to go to the polls and in my view the republican party is no longer a vehicle that can support democracy. so the only vehicle to save our republic today is the democratic party. if you don't agree with them on some issues, too bad, our democracy is at stake. give up your tribe, give up your allegiance to certain particular issues and defend democracy and defend the great american
experiment and defend the idea that all men and women are created equal. it's time we did that at the polls. >> amen. >> i am burning to ask you guys if nancy pelosi by giving two of her spots to two conservative republicans in adam kinzinger and liz cheney, and adam kinzinger and liz cheney in saying yes, have just given us a new road map to do just that but we have to sneak in a break so please don't go anywhere. when we come back, their answers to that question.
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i shoulder to think about what would have happened had you not held that line. you know, i have two young chdren. i have a 10-year-old son courage that you and your fellow officers showed that day. and so just to a really heartfelt thank you. >> we're back with eddie and matt. eddie, we missed the opportunity to do what she just did there. that was stephanie murphy from florida. because of the toxicity in our politics, because of the asinine nature of kevin mccarthy making his pilgrimage to mar-a-lago before he got serious about investigating the insurrection, he seemed to recognize what happened that day, but the
coverup started in earnest almost immediately. i wonder what you make of what we owe these officers? >> oh, my goodness. you know, the front line to protect the citadel of american democracy. we owe them everything in some ways, right? i mean that was an attempted insurrection, borderline attempted coup. you know, i was thinking about the question before the break. there are two different sorts of actors on the other side right now. there are those who are more interested in ruling than governing, and then there are those who have given up on democracy all together. they don't have the background conditions, the background commitments that allow us to disagree with them. they're not committed to democracy as such, and so we have to thank those officers for protecting the context under which we can do the work to salvage and repair our democracy and to imagine a way forward i think. yes, absolutely.
>> matt, you know, to my question before the break, it seems like we talk about voting rights, all three of us see it with this urgency. it gets to washington and the filibuster is too precious in the view of many senators and seemingly this white house. you saw a lot of sort of norms busted. nancy pelosi rejected kevin mccarthy's pick. she put two republicans on the committee, the two republicans said yes and showed up in earnest. i wonder if we are getting a bit of a roadmap for breaking some of what is broken in our politics in our country? >> well, i mean i hope this moment is a moment. all of those people that were like, let's get back to normal, like whether it is the pre-pandemic or pre-donald trump, let's get back to normal. i don't want to get back to normal. back to normal was still a country that still needed a whole bunch of work, and this moment in time, extending it over five years but especially on january 6th, is a very purposeful moment for us all
because it shows us who we are as a country. we're not as great as we thought we were. we don't have leaders of integrity like we thought we did. i have come on transition on the republican. as you know, i left the republican party 14 years ago and i always thought, okay, it is a party that may not have integrity, i disagree with them on a number of issues, but i have now come to the point in time that the republican party is dangerous. and it is dangerous using the methods that were put in place over the last 200 years to enhance their danger and to hurt our country. so i'm hoping this moment allows us to fundamentally look at all of the structures of our democracy and all of the things we've accumulated for 240 years that no longer fit where we are as a country, in a multi-cultural democracy. that's what i hope we do. going back to normal is not a good thing. we have to create something different. that's what the founding fathers sort of put in place, that we
would have that opportunity to create something new. we need to create something new and not go back to 1995 or 1985, because those may have been good times for some but they weren't good times for many. i mean, eddie, matt obviously makes clear what the mission should be. where are you sort of on the optimism scale that that's the direction we are heading? >> never an optimist, nicolle. this is not voltaire's cande, but i'm hopeful. if hope is invented every day, that means we are beating back despair every day. i have faith in us. i have faith in you, i have faith in matt, i have faith in the human endeavor, but i'm not naive. >> yeah. wow, i could talk to you guys for another hour. let's do that some day, just the three of us. eddie glaude, matt dowd, thank you for spending time with me on
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♪ ♪ i feel like i went to hell and back to protect them and the people in this room, but too many are now telling me that hell doesn't exist or that hell actually wasn't that bad. the indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful! my law enforcement career prepared me to cope with some of the aspects of this experience.
being an officer, you know your life is at risk whenever you walk out the door, even if you don't expect otherwise law-abiding citizens to take up arms against you. but nothing, truly nothing has prepared me to address those elected members of our government who continue to deny the events of that day, and in doing so betray their oath of office. >> there it is. hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. continuing our coverage of the powerful and emotional hearing that kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell never wanted you to see. it was up on capitol hill earlier today. we heard from officers who were on the front lines on january 6th, and while the committee wanted to keep things non-partisan with a stated goal of just following the facts, the role that members of the gop and the ex-president played in inciting the deadly riot as well as their efforts to down play
and rewrite the history of the attack in the ensuing months are impossible to avoid. you heard officer fanone voicing what it feels like for them, for those beaten and brutalized by trump supporters, to hear republicans in congress, who in an effort to protect their own political futures, have denied the horrors of that day. the republican talking point of, it was a peaceful protest or just a normal tourist visit clearly and forcefully disproven by the four officers' testimonies today. meanwhile, republicans other than the two serving on the committee who face opposition and ridicule from their party for doing so are now largely watching from the sidelines. it is a predicament of their own making since kevin mccarthy made the decision to boycott the investigation, forcing his party instead to hold press conferences before and after the hearing, spinning their versions of the attack on our democracy. now that the committee has displayed its seriousness and purpose before the american public and will continue its investigation into the deadly
insurrection, republicans will be out of the room, totally not a part of it, not able to steer the narrative. all the more significant is their own actions will come into focus and be a center piece of the committee's investigation. here was officer daniel hodges when he was asked what he wants this committee to pursue. >> i need you guys to address if anyone in power had a role in this, if anyone in power coordinated or aided or abetted or tried to downplay, tried to prevent the investigation of this terrorist attack because we can't do it. >> as officer harry dunn concluded in a stirring plea to this committee, there's absolutely no hiding from the politics that were at play that day. >> it's been a sentiment that's going around the senate is that everybody is trying to make
january 6th political. well, it is not a secret that it was political. they literally were there to stop the steal. so when people say it shouldn't be political, it is. it was and it is. there's no getting around that. telling the truth shouldn't be hard. fighting on january 6th, that was hard. showing up january 7th, that was hard. the 8th, the 9th, the 10th, all the way until today, that was hard. when the fence came down, that was hard. when we lost a layer of protection that we had, the fence came down and still nothing has changed. everything is different but nothing has changed.
liz cheney and adam kinzinger are being lauded as courageous heroes, and while i agree with that notion, why? because they told the truth? why is telling the truth hard? i guess in this america it is. us four officers, we would do january 6th all over again. we wouldn't stay home because we knew it was going to happen. we would show up. that's courageous. that's heroic. so what i ask from you all is to get to the bottom of what happened, and that includes like i echoed the sentiments of all of the other officers sitting here. i use an analogy to describe what i want as a hitman. if a hitman is hired and he kills somebody, the hitman goes to jail. but not only does the hitman go to jail but the person who hired them does. there was an attack carried out
on january 6th and a hitman sent them. i want you to get to the bottom of that. thank you. >> the search for who hired the hitman is where we start today with some of our most favorite friends. john heilemann is here, host and executive producer of show time's "the circus," which was just nominated for an emmy. congratulations, my friend. also the host of "the hell and high water" podcast. joining us, john figliuzzi, formerly of the fbi. david poth is also here. lucky for us, all three are msnbc contributors. john heilemann, who hired the hitman? >> huh. hello, nicolle. i think we all know who hired the hitman and i think the officers in that room knew who hired the hitman in that they described, yeah, bluntly and clearly where this investigation
needs to go, and they know the truth of this. it was kind of part of the power of the day. you know, i have been doing this for 30 some odd years, and i have never seen the congressional testimony that's had more emotional impact than this. we all sort of on some level knew what these guys were going to say, and yet it was wrenching to sit through and to witness. i don't often -- i just, you know, have never felt this humbled watching congressional testimony by anybody, i think, in the time that i've been in this job. and so humbled and so grateful for these people's service and all of these men describing what they went through, and in the middle of that humility, that sense of overwhelming humility watching this, i was struck on the other side of that with this incredibly powerful sense of just what kind of moral
depravity you must be in the grips of to engage in the kind of white washing and memory holing and attempted gaslighting that we've seen on the part of so many republicans. not just the former president of the united states, but so many in that party. it is not just that they're doing something that's evil and insidious and dangerous for the country. it is all of those things, but i just can't imagine what kind of a monster you would have to be to watch those men, listen to that testimony, know the truth, hear them talk about it, and then stand up and say that the things they said were not true, that it was all a day at the beach, that it was all a picnic, it was all a vacation. in donald trump's recent tellings, it was a moment of glory, it was a moment of people trying to do the right thing, these mob members, these insurrectionists, these terrorists. rarely, just the starkness of the kind of moral monstrosity that's required to take that
position in the face of that kind of testimony, it does truly boggle my mind. >> yeah. i mean, look, frank, i had the same feeling that john is articulating. i had this feeling though that there are few markers to how far underground we are. i used to ask, you know, where is the bottom, where is the bottom with the trump presidency. we are now so far underground we don't often get such a stark reminder of how far up the surface is. i think what these officers, with no decipherable partisan affiliation, revealed is that the country's politics are so far gone that a terrorist attack, in the words of one of those officers, by donald trump supporters, in the words of all of the officers and the insurrectionists themselves, 500 of whom have been charged now with the crimes they committed that day, have been erased by the two most powerful republicans in the country, mitch mcconnell and kevin
mccarthy. i wonder, watching it today, what you thought the chances are of eroding some of the calcified lies that have been bought by the ex-president's supporters with this truth bomb? >> there is hope. i'm hopeful, but i have to tell you that while i pray that we're nearing the bottom i don't think we're there yet. you only need look at the social media reaction, reactions to some people in congress who are now deciding to blame everything on nancy pelosi, this whole thing that happened on january 6th, in their words, seems to be nancy pelosi's fault. there's a right wing cable tv host is attacking those police officers today, saying they're not fit for duty. are we at the bottom yet? apparently not. i hope that at the bottom, when we get there, we will find some truth because i don't know how an american absorbs today's
testimony and doesn't feel moved to two emotions at least. one, sorrow. sorrow about what happened to this country on january 6th, and, secondly, anger about what happened in this nation on january 6th. i don't know, of course, how an american acts out the violence that was portrayed today on january 6th to violently overthrow our government either. so you have got me there. it is a delusion and a deception that has taken hold in the minds of so many americans that they will not even see the truth, if they even bother to listen or watch today's testimony. that, of course, is in doubt as well. one of the things that struck me, nicolle -- just so many things struck me today as we see all of this in one place today, but is the racial aspect of this. i know people don't want to hear this on the far, far right and the folks who did this terrible terrorist act, but even my law enforcement sources still tell
me the tattoos, the photos of the tattoos they were taking off the people that they're arresting still today, the shirts and slogans, the social media streams and threads of these people are consistently reflecting white nationalism, hate-based violence. that's where so many of these people are coming from. that's what officer dunn portrayed for us today. >> well, let's stay with this, frank. let me show you some more of what officer dunn testified to that gets to something we have talked about a lot, all four of us have talked about, which is what they knew ahead of time. i have interviewed a half a dozen members of congress from everything to i wore running shoes because i was afraid i may need to run to i told my spouse where my will was to i forbade my staff from coming into the capitol that day. there was a lot of knowledge this could be very violent, but
what officer dunn said about the insurrectionists themselves struck me as some of them were familiar faces. watch. >> around 10:56 a.m. i received a text message from a friend forwarding a screen shot of what appeared to be the potential plan of action, very different from a peaceful demonstration. the screen shot bore the caption "january 6th, rally point, lincoln park," and said the objective was the capitol. it said, amongst other things, that trump has given us marching orders and to keep your guns hidden. it urged people to bring your trauma kits and gas mask to link up early in the day in six to twelve-man teams. it indicated there would be time to arm up.
seeing that message caused me concern. to be sure, looking back now, it seemed to foreshadow what happened later. at the time though we had not received any threat warning from our chain of command. i had no independent reason to believe that violence was headed our way. >> frank, why with all of that in the air, why wasn't he warned that violence was in the air? >> yeah, in many ways the entire system failed those police officers, and, thereby, failed america in terms of our security and stability that day. i'm not content with the mere administrative responses we're getting so far, which means, you know, it took a long time to get this in place. you know we're not allowed to pass this kind of intelligence around or even investigate domestically from an intelligence gathering perspective americans who might be engaged in rhetoric.
we can't separate rhetoric from planning. we can't separate aspirational from planning and execution. i am tired of hearing that. so one of the key witnesses for this committee has got to be christopher wray from the fbi, and the standard answers that say, you know, we did what we could, we passed a few memos around, we pressed "send" on a bulletin or an e-mail from the norfolk office and then we just watched on tv, that does not cut it anymore. what we need in terms of answers is where do we go from here to fix this. what rules need to change right now to allow the fbi to get out in front of this? because we're learning all about these people, these almost 600 people that have been arrested. why? because the crisis has occurred, which permits them legally now to go backwards and see what they were all about. that can't happen again, and we can do it while preserving civil liberties. i'm also getting really tired of people saying, well, you know, frank, be careful of civil liberties.
yes, of course, we have to preserve civil liberties, but don't let the concerns stop us from even having the discussion. we can do it. we did it after 9/11, we can do it if we do it together. there's the rub. but we need answers about the degree that politics played into decisionmaking on intelligence gathering, we need to know how the rules need to change, we need to know whether it is that we're totally unable to see ourselves as the threat that we pose to our own country. we need answers and i'm hopeful this committee is going to get there. >> david, one of the remarkable things, and yamiche said something similar to what was just said, she said it was one of the most important things she ever covered. kinzinger became incredibly emotional, but he took it upon himself as someone who said he was there, not despite the fact he is a republican but because he is a republican to knock down some of the biggest bs republicans have been sort of
binging at the trough over. one of them was this sort of false equivalency between the racial justice protests over the summer and what happened on january 6th. let me play that clip. we will talk about it on the other side. >> i was called on to serve during the summer riots as an air national guardsman. i condemned those riots and the destruction of property that resulted, but not once did i ever feel that the future of self-governance was threatened like i did on january 6th. there is a difference between breaking the law and rejecting the rule of law, between a crime, even grave crimes, and a coup. as we begin our work today i want to call this committee's attention to the oath of office, an oath not to a party, not to an individual, but to the constitution that represents all americans. >> david plouffe, that was for a
stunning hour's of hearing, that was for me one of the more stunning rebukes to right-wing disinformation and lies. >> well, it sure was, nicolle. it is startling sadly to see somebody with an "r" after their name saying those things, but back to your previous question about the bottom. i don't think we're anywhere near it. i mean my sense is january 6th will now become an iconic date in the modern republican party, a date to celebrate. i think you will see members of congress doing events. i think you will see people announcing their presidential campaigns in 2023 on january 6th. the way we escape this is, you know, you have now the people that drive certainly social media discussions but i would argue a lot of republican activists and republican primary voters, they swim in this very toxic, delusional fishbowl where covid was a hoax, you shouldn't take vaccines, january 6th was not a terrorist attack, trump won the election, he is going to be restored in some miraculous
act by the "my pillow guy" in august. we can laugh about those things. that's what a big segment of the republican party believes. but then if in 2022 and 2024, despite a lot of people not agreeing with that, they're getting 50%, 51% of the vote in a lot of places, they're going to get rewarded for that. what we need is the 70% to 75% of the country who agrees we should remain a democracy, that january 6th rivals, you know, september 11th and december 7th, 1941, in this country, that believes that pandemics are real, that believes we should protect ourselves against them, we need to align ourselves just until the democracy is safe. and then we can go back to fighting about capital gains rates and expansion of medicare and all of the things that seem quaint now, but i think at the end of the day it was an enormously powerful day today. i think a lot of the clips of the two republican members of congress and those officers will be seen across the country, but
there's still going to be a big percentage of the country that will never see it because they look into the screen every night at fox and sinclair and in their facebook feeds and they live in that little fishbowl. nothing punctures it. >> you know, don, i watched fox to see how much of this they took. they took most of what i have played on this show over the last hour and a little bit, but, you know, there is a despair, right, to what the republican party is. it is a threat to our health by peddling disinformation about the vaccine, it is a threat to our democracy by still having both arms and both legs wrapped shamelessly around the ex-president. it is all now a threat to this body, and that's what became clear to me. that liz cheney and adam kinzinger are jeopardizing their ability to perhaps continue to serve in that body by wanting to get to the truth about an attack against that body and that building. i wonder, just sort of stepping back from our noses against the
glass, if you think this day sort of shakes up the kaleidoscope at all? >> i don't know the answer to that question. i will say first, i thought that the hearing was -- it was the obvious place for this investigation to start for a variety of reasons, some tactical, some strategic. obviously we are going to see how this all unfolds. the one question that i continue to have is why democrats and why the organizers of the committee, why leadership did not decide to put this hearing on in prime time. i am virtually certain that every broadcast network in america would have taken it. >> yeah. >> and if you had been able to do it, to compress it into two hours or maybe even three hours, i think the numbers would have been -- and it is not the most important thing but it is not an unimportant thing. i think the numbers would have been vast. i think it is the only way, as long as this thing through the price many david plouffe is talking about, which is the nbc viewers watch it with a set of
preconditions, and fox and sinclair and oan viewers have another preconditioned set of conditions. i'm not sure how many minds were changed, even by the hearing i just described earlier as one of the most emotionally wrenching devastating things -- i think the most congressional hearing i have ever seen. it is not having the maximum effect. i wish this thing had been on broadcast and cable wall to wall in prime time tonight rather than today. i do wonder, i think you are right. what i detected in kinzinger and in liz cheney today, adam kinzinger obviously incredibly emotional. liz cheney was able to suppress her emotions a little more than adam kinzinger was, but i think they recognized beyond the questions of the health of the democracy they are having a discussion right now that is about the health of this institution in which they're a part. >> right. >> i think they must on some level be scared for their lives.
they have to be cared for their lifts right now to be taking the positions they're taking. >> right. >> i think that's kind of why they're on the edge of tears as they conduct and as they play the part that they have chosen, i think courageously to play in this process. >> it is an unbelievable moment to be talking about and to be covering. david plouffe, thank you so much for being part of our coverage today. frank and john are sticking around. after the break, the texas democrats, locked now in a standoff with their own state for a third straight week over voting rights. now they're about the make their case on the biggest stage yet. plus, another refreshing contrast with the ex-president. remember when he kicked off his single term in office by whining about the media, lying about the size of his crowds in front of the cia memorial? well, today president biden made his first stop to an intelligence agency to try to repair some of that damage. and there is new guidance from the cdc for vaccinated americans, many now being urged to start masking up once again
indoors. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. u using liberty mutual's coverage customizer tool? sorry? well, since you asked. it finds discounts and policy recommendations, so you only pay for what you need. limu, you're an animal! who's got the bird legs now? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ rugs starting at $39.99. but you'll make 'em look like a million bucks. home. there's no place like it. (piano playing) here we go. ♪♪ [john legend's i can see clearly now] ♪♪
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♪ this week some of those texas democrats who fled the state to block republican-led efforts there to enact voting restrictions will get the chance to tell congress about their experience there as well as the nationwide assault on voting rights, which continues every day. after weeks of lobbying congress for help, three of the texas democrats will testify in front of the house committee on oversight and reform to convince congress of the need to pass federal voting rights legislation. in a statement congressman jamie raskin, the chair of the
committee, said this, america is facing the most sweeping assault on the voting rights of the people since the passage of the voting rights act of 1965. texas is now ground zero in this battle, and we are honored to have these texas lawmakers come to testify before our subcommittee about the struggle to defend basic democracy in their state. joining our conversation is texas state representative jasmine holl lind. john heilemann is still here. how is it going? it feels like a calcified debate in washington where everyone nods and agrees that a sweeping roll back of access to the polls and a rigging of who does the counting is a dire emergency, but no one wants to touch the filibuster. >> yeah, no. that's exactly right. thanks for having me and it is good to see you. i know it is a little off topic but i want to tie this in. your previous segment talked about the insurrection, and i want to make sure that people have a context for what is going on in texas. at least one of the lawmakers in
texas that is pushing this reform was here at the insurrection. >> wow. >> at least two of the lawmakers pushing the reform actually participated as volunteer attorneys for trump in an attempt to overturn election results in other states. >> wow. >> so let me tell you something. this is a very real thing, and it is all connected. there was an attack on our democracy on january 6th and ever since there's been an attack throughout this country, state by state, legislature by legislature. sadly enough, what we're running into on the federal level is we all agree there's a problem, we just completely disagree on how we're going to fix it. >> you know, i thought about you yesterday. i interviewed senator angus king, an independent who is really wise and has great relationships across the aisle. he said to claire mccaskey, who used to serve in the body, you know, being in the senate these days is like being on a high
school football team that hasn't won in five years. there is a sense that they feel powerless when they are the ones who are choosing to use their power in the majority to let the largest rollback of access to the polls in history happen with a democratic president, a democratic-controlled sin at and a democratic-controlled house of representatives. i wonder how that feels for you in a state with republican control. >> yeah. let me tell you something, the republicans are not bowing down to us whatsoever. so i don't understand why we, having the control on the national level, why we are bowing down. democracy demands more. we heard from those officers today, and they were risking their lives, not for democrats, not for republicans, but for our democracy. so if they can risk their lives and if people can actually lose their lives for our democracy on that day as well as in history, i don't understand why there's not a fire in their belly to say, you know what? we're going to do whatever it
takes because this is about democracy, and democracy has to be bigger than things such as partisanship. and because the republicans don't want to grow up and grow some and stand up to trump and say, "enough is enough," then, you know, why should we all sit here and lose? we voted for representation that believed in the very principles of democracy, yet somehow we're not getting that representation right now. everyone wants to talk about free clearance when we are talking about this. let me tell you something. if texas passes those laws, there is no preclearance, right. >> right. >> because they passed it. so what can we do? so we need help now. we needed help like yesterday. >> you know, john heilemann, i want to bring you into this conversation. i just want to share with our viewers what is happening now in georgia. georgia, obviously, passed the voter suppression law that lid lead to the boycott of the all-star game which took place a
couple of weeks ago in colorado instead. here is what the agc reports about the fact of the georgia law. with the rising drum beat of criticism, several republican georgia legislators are building a case for the state government to take over fulton county elections. the new-found power to fire local elections management created by georgia's voting law, worries voting rights advocates who say it could be abused for partisan purposes to tamper with the heavily democratic county. under the new voting law that the republican-controlled general assembly passed this year, the state election board could replace a county's election board after a performance review, audit or investigation, giving a temporary superintendent full authority over vote counting, polling places and staffing. let me just underscore, john heilemann, this is the nightmare scenario. georgia changed who counts the votes. georgia republicans were ultimately bullied by trump and trump supporters to do exactly what he would have had them do last november. i wonder what you make, what is
your analysis of the lack of what representative crockett describes, the lack of the fire in the belly? >> well, first of all, nicolle, you and i have been talking about this for months. >> yeah. >> and just for the sake of anybody who hasn't heard already, right, the issue here is not about voter id or about passing around water in lines or any of these other points. the only issue is this issue. that is the nightmare scenario. it is not only the nightmare scenario though, it is the intended scenario of everyone who is pushing these kinds of laws, that they understand -- >> exactly. >> -- that where the real power here resides is in administration of elections, and if administration of elections was run in a partisan way that the outcome of 2020 would have been exactly what donald trump would have wanted. the election would have been stolen. donald trump would still be president of the united states. that's what all of this is driven toward. the rest of it is window dressing. some of it is designed to confuse. some of it is misdirection. some of it is people who
genuinely just don't understand what they're doing or think they're making the situation better or worse, but on the margins. this is the core issue. it is the core issue. so it is the nightmare scenario and it is the most predictable thing in the world. it is exactly what the georgian pursuer, the people propagating this law, what they want. they understand the end game here is in a contested election, who controls the counting. i remember in 2020 talking to steve bannon in the fall of 2020 and bannon talking about what he thought was going to happen after the election. he said, there's going to be knife fights in the counting rooms. we're going to have all of this fight. now, it turned out that donald trump's election lawyers were totally incompetent, were complete -- i mean they had no legal basis for the challenges they were launching and they were also complete morons led by the a-plus moron of them all, rudy giuliani. so they couldn't do what bannon was imagining, there will be knife counts in the counting roads, we know how to wield the
knives, we will steal the election. that was in bannon's mind in 2020, the notion it was going to be in the counting rooms. who had the knives, who sets the rules in the room, that's where all of the power will be and that's what all of these laws are about. nightmare scenario for us and for democracy. intended outcome of those who are propagating these bills that are designed to undermine democracy and steal elections, and what do i make of the fact that there's not more a fire in the belly about this? i think that the only possible explanation for it is some misguided sense of the thing that, you know, the frog in the water, the frog in the boiling water. there are these democrats, and unfortunately up until now i put the president of the united states in this category, who theoretically, who understand at the level of principle, say this is, you know, voting rights is the most important thing, this is an existential crisis for the country, but don't on some level truly believe that that's what
is at stake here. because i think if you truly believed it and you had a gut level, visceral understanding of what the stakes are here, you could not just give a speech and move on. you would have to be at the ramparts every day fighting this battle, and that is not where, unfortunately, many democrats -- some democrats are, but not that many, and we need more. >> maybe it is from spending time in the party formally known as republicans, but for them this is the ball game and they're doing great. they're winning. >> yes. >> representative crockett, i will give you the last word. >> you know, all i have got to say is that i absolutely agree. they don't look at this and think that it is the one thing that matters more than everything else. honestly, there shouldn't be negotiations about any other piece of legislation until we handle this. let me tell you, in the house, i have one freshman colleague who kept saying, "we shouldn't deal with any legislation unless we
talk about abortion first." now, he lost on that argument. but the point is he had his priority and he made that known. we won't get health care in this country, we won't get an infrastructure deal in this country, we won't get election reform, we won't get anything that we really need unless we focus on this right here. everything that we want in this country relies on people being able to exercise their right to vote. >> and to have their vote counted. i tell you last thing, that's what republicans would do if that helps strengthen your argument. >> yes. >> texas state representative jasmine crockett and john heilemann, thank you both so much for being part of this conversation and spending some time with us today. up next for us, there's some breaking news on new mask guidance for vaccinated americans, and potential mandates for all federal employees. we will bring it to you next. ♪
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still have virus and in some cases be able to transmit it which changes the equation which means if you bring the workers back, unless you are requiring everybody to wear a mask which some places may do that, particularly when there's high transmission, the vaccinations are a way to get out of there the only other way that some
businesses have gotten around it is if you are not going to vaccinate everybody, some people are asking for exemptions, is to make them go through additional testing and wear the masks and that's what keeps the workplaces that's the advice i would give. >> we will stay on it. thank you for being part of our conversation today. it is great to see you. coming up for us, president biden's push today to restore confidence in u.s. intel communities, which his predecessor spent years working veryes hard to destroy.
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it is so vital. it is so vital that you are and should be free of political pressure or partisan interference. it is basic. you will never see a time of the united states or my administration tries to affect or alter your judgment. >> president biden today at the office of the director of national intelligence for his first visit as president, delivering a message of respect and trust in his intel community to declare new found independence of politics. his white house is admitting it is a contrast message from the
ex-president. we are back with frank, i was reminded by my team that the ex-president went through four director of national intelligence including the last one who i believe ruffled up the fda director. we probably didn't have as much visibility as what will come out in the years to come of just how much pressure the ex-president put on the intelligence community. what does this changed administration means for them? >> what a difference a president makes. >> yes. >> we all know there was damage done to the intelligence community in the past administration. i don't think the american public generally understands the depth of the damage done. it was not just the moral. we kept on hearing about oh, he damaged the moral. it was worse than that. he damaged the ability to execute a mission, for truth to
get up for the oval office to get briefs. it made sense that president biden would stop at the dni office, that's the office that needs to spoke truth to the oval office. helps prepare the daily intelligence briefs for the president. the collection or shopping list every year and establishes throughout the year, what are we going to collect or what do we need and this age of cyber threat and north korea and iran and china and russia. where did the virus come from and where did we go in the cyber battlefield? this president needs the straight scoop and needs it untarnished and he made a return today and repeated it twice. i will never politicize the intelligence community. i will never politicize the intelligence community. in return, those men and women
will be loyal to america. we need the intelligence community to succeed and that's what president biden was telling them today. >> what do you this i the top security concern is for the country right now? >> well, on a domestic picture, we know what that is. we saw that reflected in today's select committee hearing. we are the threat right now and it may be the very high threat we face. look, across the board geo politically, it is the cyber threat. we don't know what cyber warfare looks like, we are in the middle of the battle. that's the number one that president biden is facing. >> we'll continue to cover it. thank you for spending some time with us. we'll be right back after a short break. we'll be right back after a short break. like jack. he wanted a streamlined version he could access anywhere, no download necessary.
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thank you so much for letting us into your home during these truly extraordinary times. "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> hi nicole. we begin with the testimonies of four officers attacked on january 6th. today is the day the official investigation hearing begins. if you have watched the news, you have seen much of the entry leading up to it. we are at the actual fact-finding, probing,