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tv   Velshi  MSNBC  July 24, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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engagement at the american university of beirut. head to, the next 25, to read my fully say on the future of the middle east and other forward looking essays written by my colleagues. it's not just voting rights the filibuster is blocking. police reform is stuck in the senate with little signs of progress. coming up i speak to barbara lee of california about the george floyd justice in policing act. two months after biden's deadline to get it passed. don't go anywhere, another hour of "velshi" starts right now. good morning, it's saturday july 24th. i'm ali velshi. our democracy at a cross-roads. the determining factor is what we do to protect voting rights under siege. ands that no exaggeration. voting rights across the country are under attack and while you may not see it happening where you are living or to you, the
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fact is it is happening. and if it's happening anywhere in this country, that should alarm you. a new report from the brennan center for justice reveals that 18 states have enacted at least 30 laws this year that make it harder to vote. and it's only july. republicans in texas are actively trying their hardest to adages even more restrictive voter laws to the list. but for the moment they've been held off by a brave group of democratic state legislators. they've been in washington, d.c. nearly two weeks trying to foil the republican-led legislature's effort to pass a bill making it harder for potentially millions of texans to vote. the governor greg abbott threatens to airports the lawmakers upon return, arrest them for fighting for voting rights, every one of them with whom i've spoken are willing to face arrest because that's the new civil disobedience in america we're at a turning point and now is not the time to stand by while republicans attempt to kill democracy by a thousand
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cuts. the time for action is now. for those democratic lawmakers, the risk of arrest is well worth it to protect voting rights of their constituents. they're engaging in acts of civil disobedience because that is what is required to meet this moment and others are following their lead. on thursday, democratic congressman hank johnson of georgia was among ten demonstrators arrested at a voting rights protest on capitol hill. he and the others stood their ground as they called on the legislative branch to pass the for the people act. johnson's arrest was preceded by last week's arrest of the congressional black caucus chair joyce beatty who was part of a similar protest. he didn't hold back when temg my cleaning exactly what republicans are trying to do >> they are trying to kill us right now as far as our right our vote, kill our democracy. we need to have a democracy or we don't. and if everyone can't vote in
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the country, if some can't vote because of race, this is not a true democracy. >> preach, congressman. that's supposed to be the promise of america. true democracy means every one has equal rights and equal vote. -- voice and vote. until a right to vote doesn't depend on where you live or the color of your skin, we won't be living in a true democracy. and that is exactly why all americans need to care about this. all americans. the right to vote is right there in the constitution. the 15th amendment. extends the right to vote to any male regardless of race. the 19th amendment extends that right to women. the 24th amendment abolishes poll taxes intended to keep black people from voting. those amendments didn't just appear out of thin air. they were fought for with lives, protests and with acts of civil disobedience. if voting rights seem straightforward, it's because it is straightforward. but republicans are making it
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complicated because they see suppressing the vote as the only way to stay in power, the only way to stop that is with direct action. and that means pulling out all the stops. at the federal level it means president biden changing his tune on the filibuster. it's no secret that the antiquated senate rule is standing in the way of passing the john lewis voting rights act and the for the people act. two pieces of federal legislation that would supercede most oppressive state voting laws. but it's going to take action, not just talk, from biden, lawmaker attention, from me, you, all americans to keep the country moving in the right direction on this. it's on us. to make sure that america lives up to its promise outlined in the constitution. with me now is the reverend dr. william barber, the co-chairman of the poor people's campaign. the president and the senior lecturer for repairers of the breach. and he too was arrested a few weeks ago during a capitol hill protest over voting rights and over abolishing the filibuster.
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so to you this is old news, reverend. you understand there is a way to bring attention to this the most serious of issues. but now this has to go further than people like you who have long been willing to get arrested for the cause. this now has to go to every one of us in this skre because while the rights do not extend to all of us, they are not enjoyed by any of us. >> ali, you are exactly right. this is the time. that's why not only was our arrest -- i was arrested with people from west virginia and ohio, kentucky, who are putting pressure on mcconnell and manchin. last week over a hundred women from 42 states stood up and were arrested. this coming monday we're going to be in 40 states in the senate office -- democrats and republican, asking them, are you willing to end the filibuster? are you willing to pass the real john lewis bill, the for the people act the one he wrote. are you willing to pass the
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voting rights ac, willing to pass 15 and and union do it by august 6th, the 56th aevrs of the voting rights act. . if they say yes. we tell the media. if they say no we engage on direct action. wednesday we locked a march from georgetown, texas to austin, texas. then on saturday a massive rally in texas to nationalize what's going on and demand federal action, a selma like march. we can't do this state by state and litigation by litigation. i've been through that it takes too long. we need the federal protections. then on the following monday we're coming back to d.c. with clergy and workers. clergy and low wage worker, a mass of them to in fact engage in direct action. and everybody needs to get in where neck get in. you don't have to be under the same banner but we need to be in the same battle >> you make this connection for wages. for poor people. and for democracy.
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i was talking to dolores jaurta register vote esper in 1955 because she understood if the voters do not have fravrpz, their right, it affects all decisions about them including keeping people in poverty >> exactly right. that's why we don't need to make the choice between physical infrastructure and protecting the infrastructure of our democracy. we don't knee need to say we need to build bridges but stop people people from voting. dr. ic king says the great fear of the southern arrisocracy. we can't see this as a race issue. it's a race issue and targeted at black people. but it's not -- when you look at these bills and look at texas, west virginia, the bills passed, it will hurpt white people. it will hurt poor people, black people, latino people.
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disabled people, asian people, native people, workers. it will take away our things -- 56 million americans use in the past election. they're trying to take away early voting, take away same day registration. take away mail in. drop box. 56 million people used thoets methods in the plavt election. in the franchise voting. we must see this for what it is, january 6th was a violent insurrection. what we're seeing in these state houses is a political insurrection an attempt to do a political coup of our system of voting. and we can't sit back, can't just see in as a race issue. we all have to get in now. and we have to say to the president and to the senate, you must act now. and those democrats -- there is no moderate position on this. those democrats that want to not pass the for the people's act or want to weaken it or compromise
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it now or want to say wait, it's been 56 years since the passing of the voting rights act in 1965. and we have less voting rights today under the voting rights act than we did 56 years ago. and if you are blocking something now, you are an accessory to the political insurrection that's going on. you are an accessory to what is happening in these state houses. this is old. it's not just even the trump lie. s in a lie about fraud in voting that has gone on particularly in the south every since the southern strategy of strom thurmond and nixon. it's not jim crow. it's james crow ee squire. if you are gay, black, if you are a worker, if you're latino, if you're asian, if you're native american, if you are whiting with who ever you are, if you care about this country in this moment, not just the protection of a party democrat
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or republican but the protection of the very country. and maybe in some ways the world. you need to be engaged now and demand in the filibuster, pass the for the people act, owl provisions of it pass the voting rights act, restoration, pass the $15 minimum wage. and also protect immigrants and daca. we could do this tomorrow. we could do this on monday or tuesday. it doesn't -- we don't have to keep waiting on this and we shouldn't wait and must demand >> what do you need the people watching you right now to do people like me who have never had a problem voting, people like me who can get problems sorted out people like me who don't think it targeted me what do we have to do right now to join the fight >> if you can't get to d.c. you need to flood the senate offices with calls, demanding that they act on the things i just named. end that filibuster now. and don't accept the lie of the
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filibuster that it has brought people together. that's not the truth. the filibuster has been used not just to hurt black women people but women's and labor rights. and i could go. call for the full passage of the bill john lewis wrote, the for the people act. don't let people say we will give you the voting rights act without the for the people act. you have to have both. you're not the for the people act you're against same day registration, against early voting against drop box, against felony enfranchisedment. call for the passage of the voting rights act restoration. call for people of new 15. and join one of the movements. join us on monday, august 2nd. join us in texas on for the mass rally in austin. covid safe, come bring your mask. come there. but join us because this is the moment you must be willing to put your body on the line and put as we used to say your butt
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where your mouth is. this is where we stand up and stand out and speak up and speak out >> revrpd good to see you as always. reverend dr. william barber, the co-chairman of the poor people's campaign president and senior lecturer for repairers of breach and wears the badge of many in the civil disobedience movement of having been arrested in his efforts to advance voting rights. trump's big lie about the 2020 election is not only fueling republicans as they enact voter restrictions but prompting the violence we saw on january 6th. the insurrectionists were fed lies about the election. they were made to believe that something was stolen from them when in reality black and brown voters simply showed up. they showed up to the polls and voted differently than those people you see on your screen. there is a lot we still don't know about that day. but we will soon likely find out more. house speaker nancy pelosi's select committee investigating the insurrection is set to hold
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the first hearing with officers from the united states capitol police and metro police next westbound. so far pelosi appearance unphased by the threats of a boycott. but she says she is prepared to pursue the probe with or without support. with me now is msnbc contributor joyce vance, the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. great to see you this morning. i don't know that most good americans care at this point whether kevin mccarthy decides to populate his part of the panel. they care we get to the bottom of how this happened, what prevents it from happening again, and who our elected members are who may have been assisting and aiding and abetting the insurrectionists >> it's so important to have a historically accurate version of what happened here. and many people may forget now that we have the 9/11 report, many of us have read all or parts of it. but we forget that that process
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too was a difficult one. not everyone embraced it at the outset. but the lesson we learn from the 9/11 report is that if this january 6th process proceeds so we can understand the facts without any sort of varnish put on them, what happened, who was there, what did they do, and also hear from expert witnesses who can inform us prospectively about what can be done to prevent a recurens in the future, what do we need to do in the country to take on issues of domestic terror, then that can be an incredibly valuable document for us moving forward >> you tweeted the other day in response to another tweet -- you said this is how it should be. we don't have to agree on policy to agree that 1789/6 was an attack on our democracy and no one gets a pass for it, no matter what position they hold. you bring up the 9/11 commission. you're absolutely right. there are still disagreements on why it happened. but nobody disagrees that it shouldn't have happened and that
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we shouldn't do things to make sure it doesn't happen again >> this is an enormous challenge that nancy pelosi faces. and she is showing signs she is up to it. we live in the hyperpoliticized context where virtually nothing, not even public health can happen without a politicsle shine put on it. but it's incredibly important for the january 6th commission that we hear objective testimony from fact witnesses, without any spin on it. and i understand that we're in congress. and people in congress in these sorts of hearings often are there to make certain types of points. i hope democrats walk away from that usual practice here. they are fortunate to have liz cheney onboard. because that makes the point that for anyone who cares about bipartisanship this is a bipartisan or perhaps put better an apartisan process >> apartisan is a good way to
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say it. i'm fascinated by republican attempts to paint cheney as a pelosi loving liberal. she is not close to that, as conservative as conserve gets. there is this effort on mccarthy's part and the part of some of the people he named to the committee who were rejected by nancy pelosi to paint in exclusively as a failure of policing and security at the capitol. and to the extent that that's true, i'm sure the capitol police and the d.c. police and everybody would like to get to the bottom of what that is. russell ounre was put in charge of a investigation to see that and everybody agrees there were failures on that front. but it white washes the idea there was something else, that the spark for the insurrection was somewhere else. lies were allowed to be spread. and they were perpetrated by some who are currently in congress. and that's the part that we worry about being unanswered. >> it is a problem. and, you know, good luck to kevin mccarthy pinning this on nancy pelosi. i think that that may be a political narrative that he
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hopes no access. but that's clearly not the truth here. and the truth really does matter. we need to understand whether there were elect the representatives who were, you know -- and i'm not suggesting this is the case, ali. the problem is that we actually don't know the truth. we've heard stories about tourists given on january 5th that may have helped people map the capitol. we need to know the truth behind situations like that so we can move forward >> good to see you as always. joins advance is a former united states attorney and cohost of the sisters in law podcast. tomorrow marks 15 months since george employed was murdered by a minneapolis police officer. and still no congressional action as it relates to police reform. coming up this hour, barbara lee, congresswoman barbara lee explains the next steps in negotiations, what's holding it up and how we can literally get anything done. you're watching "velshi" on msnbc. watching "velshi" on msnbc. ♪
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council approved an ordinance commission to oversee the police department following years of scandaling with vitamin confessions. police advocates call it historic. a definitely a step in the right for one city. you know what else would be history ib. police reform at a federal level. marking 15 months since george floyd was murdered by a minneapolis police officer. since then hundreds of millions took to the streets protesting police brutality yet we wait for congress to pass police reform. when george floyd, breonna taylor, ahmed taylor were killed last year. many american recognized as long as it's happening to some it's everyone's problem. jet the george floyd justice in policing bill is sitting in congress. basically on life support. similar to other crucial legislation by voting rights.
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all right as i mentioned before the break, despite 15 months passing since george floyd's murder and a massive movement that took hold across the country, one of the biggest since the civil rights movement, congress still hasn't been able to get a police reform bill to president biden. joining me is democratic congresswoman barbara lee, a former chair of the congressional black caucus, a senior member of the house apprehensions committee. good to see you. good morning. thank you for being with us. let's talk about the bill. i recall several weeks ago hearing they were close, stuck on a couple of things but getting movement. and they were getting close. and then nothing happened. >> thank you for that question, ali. good morning. let me tell you, this is a bill that has to move forward. our negotiators, senator booker, congresswoman bass, snorp scott
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are working day and night to thread that needle. remember, we passed the george floyd justice in policing act in the house of representatives. and in fact the negotiations are moving forward. yes, several weeks ago they did issue a statement saying that they've come up with a framework. you know how tough the negotiations can be. but when you're dealing with someone such as senator mitch mcconnell and the republicans who really don't want to see a lot happen as it relates to police reform, so i'm hopeful and confident that we're going to get something. we have got to ban choke holds, which it includes, ban the no-knock warrants, no-knock warrants, also ban qualified immunity has to be addressed. in a way that means something when we know that we're communicating very clearly in the law that no one is above the law. we have to have national standards for policing. so this bill has a heck of a lot. and we've got to do it because too many black and brown people have been killed and have been
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really harmed in so many ways as it -- as a result of police misconduct that has to stop >> congresswoman, i want to ask you about in child tax credit we've been talking a lot about and the degree to which it lifts so many children out of poverty. there is some reporting that some people are getting left behind. i want to read to you from the philadelphia eninquire err, it says not everyone eligible for the tax credit is receiving it. families nationwide began searching the child tax credit payments from the federal government last week. some worry that the poorest americans may never see a dollar. many making so little money that they don't file taxes which is legally permissible, but now a hindrance. many extremely poor people lack email dresses, permanent addresses and bank accounts for direct deposit access opinion opinion quite a few believe if they reach out for the credit they lose other benefits such as medicaid. we don't want the least among us not getting this money. >> no, ali. and that's why we made sure
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those who were very low wealth, low income would be eligible. in fact we know there is an issue with access to broad band in many low-income communities throughout the country. but people are eligible. i would suggest call your members of congress, their offices, ask for help. because we have in my district alone community-based organizations helping people who did not file income taxes. they are eligible. once again, call your member of congress. they will help you navigate this. because we want people who are just living on the edge, who are living below the poverty line, to be -- to be able to access resources. $250 a month for those who have children, i think it's from 6 to 17, $300 a month for children under 6 years ol pl families need it, deserve it. we're trying to make it permanent. please call your members of congress. don't let access to broad band,
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don't let the obstacles stop you from getting the resources that you deserve >> congresswoman, i want to ask you something. you represent a district in california. i didn't realize until today you were born in texas. there is some crazy stuff going on in texas, not just with the voting law stuff. but there's been a change in -- there is a senate bill that is proposing dropping curriculum requirements to teach about martin luther king and his i have a dream speech, drop teaching about the united farm workers skres ar chavez. susan b. anthony writings. but also dropping a requirement that teaching about the ku klux klan wrong >> people trying to revise history. we need more history taught so the country understands why they're seeing each and every day systemic racism played out in the disproportionate racism
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towards african-americans dyeing from covid, the disproportionate race of african-americans living below the poverty lines. there are reasons for in and historical context. to try to deny the history, try to revise it and try not to allow the truth be told to me is outrageous. and i think this is just another effort actually that authoritarian countries and leaders use to try to create an environment where only those that are powerful, the rich prevail. and they want to keep others in a place where we're totally oppressed and totally not part of in country's democracy. so this goes right back to voting rights. we need h.r. 1 passed, we need h.r. 4 passed to have a system that allows the voices of people who have not been heard to be heard through their elected officials. this is about more than just
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voting. this is about preserving our democracy, which leads right to what we're talking about right now in terms of elected officials trying to take away and revise the historical context for many of the problems that we have to solve. it's outrageous. and it's a shame and disgrace >> congresswoman, we always thank you for your time, appreciate you joining us this morning. democratic representative barbara lee of california. as we know from texas as well. after a year of delay the olympic games are underway in tokyo, japan, under unique circumstances, and not without controversy. keep it here on msnbc. ithout controversy. keep it here on msnbc. ver ♪ here we go. ♪ rock the boat don't rock the boat, baby ♪ ♪ rock the boat ♪ see disney's jungle cruise. it's time to rock the boat, america. when i get a migraine, i shut out the world. but with nurtec odt that's all behind me now. nurtec can now treat and prevent migraines. don't take if allergic to nurtec. the most common side effects were nausea, stomach pain, and indigestion. ask your doctor about nurtec today.
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sometimes eerily quiet stadium. much different atmosphere than past years. but still an exciting time for the world's greatest athletes. however, some asian-american competitors are navigating these olympic games after a year in which hate attacks against the aapi community rose significantly. but as our investigative correspondent shows us these athletes turn the experience of discrimination in musgrove >> good morning. the games are intended to bring the world. a chance for the host country to showcase history and cultures. but as japan welcome olympians and par olympians. asian-american athletes have had a tough year facing discrimination linked to the pandemic while working harder than ever to represent the united states. i spoke with some team usa athletes about how they're responding, and what they want the world to know. these are some of the
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asian-american athletes representing team usa in tokyo >> this is something that i've dreamed of since i was a kid >> representing the u.s. and representing the sport is very special. >> tokyo and japan is such a special place it to not only play volleyball but a part of our family history. >> it's such an honor and to do it on a world stage like in tokyo is such a cool thing. >> but even as members of team usa they aren't immune to anti-asian hate. in one year more than 6,600 hate incidents were reported ranging from verbal to physical assaults. this athlete was training at a public park when a man harassed her. >> this thmt born in south korea and adopted by american parents detailed a similar experience. >> this lady cuts me off. at the next red light she
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screams out her window, go back to china. >> paralympic tennis star dana matthewson is chinese american and been the subject of asian jokes mostly by people she knows >> friends joked to me oh did you bring covid here? that goes to show people don't understand the gravity of what they're saying >> you have conflicted feelings going into the games because of the rise in anti-asian sentiment >> no, i think that i'm so proud of the fact that i'm chinese. if anything it's just another opportunity for me to show people what we're capable of doing. >> growing up in hawaii, volleyball players eric and have had experiences with racism. >> to see someone do that gesture on the biggest stage vol ball has to offer at the moment was insane to me. it was appalling. i put a lot of things on social media about it.
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and hopefully some things can change. >> how does it make you feel when people question your identity as american >> i feel like me going into the gym seven hours a day is one of the most american things to do, to grind your heart out every single day to get an opportunity to wear usa on your chest >> he says that april day only motivates her to keep going. >> as athletes we always tend to use whatever obstacle, make that into strength and power and keep moving. >> and ali, it was amazing to talk with the athletes so candidly about experiences, the highs of making team usa, and the lows of having their identities as asian-americans questioned by the very people they're representing. their fellow americans. we will be cheering them on. ali, back to you >> thank you, vikki. vick yes nguyen investigative reporter sivrmts one major
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league ball club is making a major name change. joining me now my colleague tiffany cross of the cross-connection. tiffany, cleveland, i just say cleveland. you tell me the rest. >> exactly, what a great package by the way, aly >> thank you >> great job. it was great >> you're right after decades of criticism, especially from the native american community, the cleveland baseball team they're finally changing their name to the guardians. i'll discuss that, plus the nfl's covid policy with my friend bemani jones from espn. i look ahead to the hearing of the house select committee investigating the insurrection. you know the drama with that. i'll talk to the house impeachment manager jauquin castro. i'm looking a at jamaica's request for slavery repairations from england and what that could mean for the repairations movement here in this country. we have a historian and somebody
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joining us from the uk. so a big show coming up this morning, ali. not only are you the hardest working man and the smartest working man at msnbc. you're the kindest. . i'm asking you to stick around and watch the show >> that's easy to deliver on my friend as always. tiffany cross the host of cross-connection. join here. i will be at the top of the hour. 10:00 a.m. eastern. thanks, tiffany. and from the insurrection to the covid-19 pandemic, 2021 may well be remembered as the year of disinformation. now vaccine disinformation is not only preventing a post pandemic return to normal it's costing lives. next on "velshi." elshi. ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing
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who's got the bird legs now? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ you're clearly someone who takes care of yourself. so why wait to screen for colon cancer? because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers even in early stages. tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber or an online prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'm on it. sounds like a plan. all right. after the year we've had it's crazy to think we still need to be reminded the pandemic isn't over. covid cases rise across the country particularly prominent among the unvaccinated.
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not even particularly. it's like 97%. making matters worse is the insidious and deadly disinformation campaign about the vaccine that's spreading almost as fast as covid itself. while a lot of that deliberately bad information comes from social media, a lot of it also comes from our cable tv buddies across the street at fox news. >> it's how you control people's choices through manipulation through propaganda. the vaccine effort is part of the push to control the choices we make >> but there are a lot of those people giving you medical advice on television and you should ignore them. the advice they're giving you isn't designed to help. it's designed to make you comply. >> and what about the efficacy of the vaccine itself among adults. >> so maybe it doesn't work and they're simply not telling you that. >> one would think that folks on national tv have the moral obligation not to spread lies about something as important as a vaccine that could save one's life from virus that has already claimed 4 million lives worldwide. but then we are talking about
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fox. in recent weeks, however, some of those same folks have taken a different tune. obviously not all of them. but some of the on-air talent have found their conscience. >> if you didn't get a vaccination, that's your choice. but if you did, like i did, and they did, and maybe you did >> the administration has been very frustrated they have not been able to get facebook to get rid of some of the disinformation. the disinformation is online. the vaccine is killing lots and lots of people. or it changes your dna, or they're little microchips. none of that is true >> america, we're in this together >> and if you can, get the vaccine. >> for information on vaccine sites visit the vaccine finder on the home page of fox >> i'm guessing a lot of you don't watch fox. that was a literal public service announcement that aired this week. after months of relentlessly intimidating americans with
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anti-vax conspiracy theories. to be clear, the blame for vaccine disinformation does not fall squarely on the shoulders of certain cable tv hosts or network. fischer is a legitimate breeding ground for this stuff. the white house accused facebook and other social media platforms of not doing enough though stop the spread of disinformation resulting in the deaths of many. facebook defended itself say going removed millions of pieces of information. but experts say the tech giant has still failed to address the root cause. joining me now, brand za grossny pb, the senior reporter specializing in internet platforms. and the adviser to stop hate for profit, the author of zuked. you published an article this morning where you say biden has to play hard ball with internet platforms. and you say if biden forces internet platforms to recognize
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and stop amplifying disinformation he will go towards his top priority of ending the covid pandemic >> ali, the problem we face here is that too many people in government and in journalism are talking about how facebook struggles to get rid of disinformation, hate speech and conspiracy theories. and the problem is that that framing is wrong. what facebook is doing is it's struggling to avoid accountability for business model that profits from harmful content. and this is a huge issue. and in my piece in "wired." you heard me say this before. i advocate for fundamental changes in the business model used by facebook, instagram, youtube, twitter and others that has to do with the amplification for attention ever extreme content and then the use of recommendation engines to drive people towards that extreme content >> brandy, one of the first shows of -- one of the first episodes of "velshi," early last
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year before the pandemic was the thij that it is now, you told me something i hadn't realized. as far as misinformation goes in the world, health misinformation is the biggest category. it's actually even bigger than political misinformation. >> yeah, ali, you know, this has been my beat a long time. health misinformation. we've been screaming about the fake cancer cures, or parents feeding children bleach or the anti-vaccination effort. in has been a long-time thing. happening online for a decade. that's really the lesson here to me. all of the ms. information we are seeing now online, all of the groups sort of trying of to evade the bans fischer finally put in place. this is a story that we are in the consequence face of a very long story. you know, facebook, instagram, youtube, all of these platforms could have done something about this particular type of
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misinformation. the in his information claims bill gates is inserting with you a chip, or the vaccine makes you die, or stop you from having children. all of these are lies. but it's really hard to control them now. it's hard to put that horse back in the barn. like you said, health misinformation, barn. health misinformation, huge, huge problem. facebook's known about it for a long time. >> roger i often quote something you all said to me. you have come to believe as an early investor in social media that social media these days is incompatible with democracy. that's a pretty big statement, and that's pretty serious. now that it's actually the health hazard that it is, beyond what brandy was talking about about people who sort of subscribe to fringe theories, now that it's actually a health hazard where it's causing people to avoid a vaccination, which then could bounce back to the rest of us where we get breakthrough infections and die, is there some public health hazard that can be used to trigger some sort of regulation about this? >> so i believe so, ali.
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the trick in the very short run is that the damage, you know, is just going on in realtime. as brandy points out, and brandy is by far the best person on this stuff, it's so bad that biden needs to play hardball in order to get internet platforms to pay attention. right now they're just sitting there and doing the bare minimum to diffuse political pressure. and at the same time, the core business model is just making the problem worse and worse, and that's true not just in democracy, not just in public health, but frankly, it has to do with the whole way the economy works. and so i believe that biden needs to use his newly announced head of the antitrust division of the justice department to take up the texas price fixing case against google and facebook. that is the fastest way to get their attention because price fixing is the biggest antitrust crime, and it is punishable by prison sentences for the executives of the affected
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companies. that is the fastest way to bring about change. right now we don't have time to wait for congress. all of that stuff just takes way, way too long. >> brandy, roger, don't go anywhere. we're going to continue this conversation after a quick break. ontinue this conversation after a quick break. or could i have a different game plan? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines.
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tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be a different game. ask your doctor about eliquis.
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senator amy klobuchar of minnesota wants to fight back against online medical information by targeting section 230 of the communications decency act, a law that protects internet platforms from liability for content posted by users. it's a conversation we were just having. back with me are brandy zadrozny biden said facebook is killing people. they put out a statement which maybe biden shouldn't have said that they're actually killing people, but the facebook response was bordering on disingenuous, to roger's point as to the degree to which they have made efforts to fix this whole thing. it is part of the -- it's not a
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bug. it's a feature that the stuff gets spread on facebook and google and youtube. >> yeah, absolutely. the platforms were built to spread sensational content. they have systems in place, and they've built their product on an algorithm that rewards that sort of content. further they've expanded into groups where we see a lot of this misinformation happening on facebook specifically. in groups you get -- probably anybody on facebook knows now you get a ping saying your group's doing something. please check in with them. for a lot of people those groups are anti-vaccination group or i love my freedom groups. all of those groups right now are all talking about the vaccine and talking about it in a way that suggests that they're not going to get it. and like you said, that hurts all of us. >> by the way, a lot of these things are calling themselves dance parties or dance groups.
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facebook's got to be smarter than to be able to not catch that we've just changed our name. we're an anti-vaxx group disguising ourself. >> we just reported my colleague ben collins and i reported on these groups that were changing their name to swim club or dinner party or dance party or changing the e's in vaccines to 3's. it's very common. it's of the internet. people have been doing it as long as the internet's existed so the fact that -- and also, i know for a fact that people have been reporting these groups for over a month, and facebook did nothing until nbc news reached out and suddenly they're gone. that's a problem because we are not facebook's content moderators, right? if facebook can't figure out that these groups are operating, they're not doing a very good job of content moderators and not fulfilling their mission of keeping misinformation off the
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platform. >> you have talked about the fact that amy klobuchar, there are a handful of smarts who do take this seriously and move at a faster pace than congress and some of these dumb hearings move. do you think there's some teeth to what amy klobuchar is trying to do? >> i would hope so. i think the challenge, ali with all of these things is to get the definition right. one person's misinformation is another person's fact. i'm going to push back on brandy, i don't think facebook perceives it as their mission to get rid of disinformation. i think in fact what they're trying to do is create the appearance of getting rid of disinformation while leaving the infrastructure in place. remember what happened when they deplatformed alex jones. alex jones was a terrible promoter of conspiracy theories and he built up a grifting business on facebook. facebook deplatformed. how long did it take before there were hundreds of people competing for alex jones' attention, for the attention that he used to get who stepped
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forward and conspiracy theories continued to grow. in fact, qanon really exploded on facebook after alex jones had been removed, and so i think the core issue here is that these things are disinformation machines. they are hate speech machines and conspiracy theory machines, and until we force these businesses to change their model or get rid of them entirely, i think everything else is a little bit like trying to get rid of weeds by trimming the tops. you have to pull them out by the roots. if i could talk to senator klobuchar, i would make that point. it's great to look at revisions of 230 but i don't think that's going to do it. i think we have to go after the business model that's going to take heavy artillery such as threatening the executives with prison time for the actual crimes they have committed. >> you two are so good. if my viewers do not follow you both and read your material, they should. most of my information on this
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comes from the two of you. >> they've got to follow -- they have to follow brandy because there is nobody like them. they are absolutely the world's best. >> we appreciate all of you. thank you, nbc senior reporter brandy zadrozny and roger mcnamee, who was an early investor in facebook and google and an adviser, and that does it for me. i'm sad to leave you, but i'm very happy to leave you in the hands of tiffany cross. catch me back here tomorrow morning from 8:00 to 12:00 a.m. eastern on velshi. i'll be joined by house majority whip, jim clyburn, senators bob casey and alex padilla and many more. do not go anywhere because a jam packed "cross connection" starts right now. ♪♪ the select committee is
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bipartisan, and it has a quorum, and it will do the job it set out to do. it is my responsibility as speaker of the house to make sure we get to the truth on this, and we will not let their antics stand in the way of that. >> good morning, everybody. we have a packed show as we talk about the surge in covid around the country and the effect it's having on the sports world. as you just saw, we began "the cross connection" with a looming showdown on capitol hill. speaker pelosi refused to even entertain attempts by kevin mccarthy to derail the january 6th investigation by allowing trump allies to have a seat on the select committee, especially when it was the gop who rejected it in the first place. pelosi is now considering adding more anti-trump/pro-democracy republicans to join liz cheney on the committee like


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