tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 23, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
>> tonight on all in. >> i was ready to get the vaccine, i've always felt like he was safe and effective. >> please take covid seriously. >> these vaccines are saving lives. >> after months of silence and misinformation the republican start promoting the covid vaccine. >> i think it was an epiphany for them. >> tonight, what is really behind the sudden republican turnaround and will it work? then -- >> it was a loving crowd to, by the way. there was a lot of love. many many people have told me, that was a loving crowd. >> as republicans try to rehabilitate the violent crowd of insurrectionists. >> when statements are ridiculous and fall into the realm of, you must be kidding, there is no way that they're going to be on the committee.
>> pelosi rejects the republicans trying to troll the january six investigation. plus, new details on the plot to kill the governor of michigan and the fbi's role in it. and it has stood in the tennessee state house for over 40 years. >> our state capital is recognizing and supporting the first grand reserve of the kkk. >> tonight a nathan bedford bust is finally coming down, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. you've noticed what we've noticed? right in the last few days it seems as though someone somewhere hit a button, all of a sudden we're seeing conservatives coming out to finally state the obvious, covid vaccines are saving lives, they're safe and effective and they are a great with protecting you, your family and your loved ones from covid, and infectious respiratory virus which has already killed more than 600,000 americans, and at
various point brought our hospitals and our broader society to its knees. hospitals an>> pleased to covid, i can't say it enough, enough people have died, we don't need any more deaths. >> america, we're in this together. >> and if you can, get the vaccine, more information on vaccine sites visited the vaccine finder. >> you do see about 95 to 98% of people in the hospital for covid are people who aren't vaccinated. and i was ready to get the vaccine, i've always felt like it was safe and effective. >> the shots need to get into everybody's arm as rapidly as possible, or we're going to be back in a situation in the fall that we don't yearn for and that we went through last year. >> if you are vaccinated, fully vaccinated, the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from covid is effectively zero. >> all of this is great, and
very welcomed, but it is striking to see. we striking to see desantis saying that the vaccines will save your lives. it is bizarre because seeing it makes you realize just how completely absent republicans have been for all of this time. we have courts have covered the anti-vax, or anti pro-facts just asking questions juvenile trolling from fox news and irresponsible wildly insidious way they have covered the pandemic. but it is strange how much mainstream republicans, the big mouthpieces for conservatism has been absent on the whole question altogether. i think that is because, from the beginning, huge parts of the republican party have seen the pandemic as fundamentally a political problem rather than a once in a lifetime health crisis. the person that set the tone for that was donald trump, and it flow down. because the most important thing to donald trump was the leader of the republican party,
and was president when the pandemic hit was what the pandemic was doing to the stock market and therefore his reelection campaign. on monday march 9th, 2020, with the stock market expected to fall precipitously, remember rather than to something that would actually improve the situation, trump tried to bluff his way through tweeting the fake news media and a partner, the democrat party is doing everything within its power, used to be greater, to inflame the coronavirus situation far beyond what the facts would warrant. surgeon general, the risk is low to the average american. the dow fell 12% that day, three days later it fell 10% for what was the worst day since the 1987 crash. and so on friday to rally the market, trump paraded a bunch of ceos around the rose garden in the afternoon, made a bunch of empty promises that google has 1700 engineers working on the website to facilitate covid testing, they did not have 1700 engineers working on that. and then, when the dow finished higher that day, after a
terrible week, trump signed a stock chart and gave it to its loyal supporter. that did nothing to stop covid from spreading. right? trump never actually cared about stopping covid from spreading, about stopping people from getting sick. and just a week before that he had openly admitted, he did not want to let americans effected with covid on a cruise ship because quote, i would rather have them stay on, i don't need the numbers to double. now, trump is a special case, okay, he is a sociopath who i believe actually lacks the ability to appreciate human suffering out of her deep love level, actually can't do it. and because he treated the disease like a public relation issue, that it set the tone for the rest of the party. here's an example, ted cruz tackling the exact same cynicism exactly one year ago today. >> if it ends up at the biden
ministration winds, i don't think he will, but if he does, i guarantee you the week after the election, suddenly all those democratic governors, all those democratic mayors will say, everything is magically better, go back to work, go back to school, suddenly the problems are solved, you would even have to wait for biden to be sworn in. all they will need is election day, and suddenly their willingness to just destroy people's lives and livelihoods, they will have accomplish their tasks. that is wrong, it's cynical, and we shouldn't be a part of it. okay, utterly, completely, in every possible way wrong. just astoundingly, beautifully, wrong. right? it was republicans out rush to open up sooner, even after biden was elected, democratic states even the schools, more reticent, just completely wrong. ted cruz, absolutely wrong. it's not how things shook out. but it is so revealing. why did he make that mistake? because, ted cruz himself only
views the pandemic through a political prism. and so he projects it on to everyone else, he thinks democrats due to. florida governor ron desantis downplayed the health threats throughout this crisis and was applauded by republicans for winning the pandemic, just last week he started selling a bunch of anti covid expertise merchandise, including lockdown cozies with him saying how the hell am i gonna be able to drink a beer with a mask on? and a t-shirt that red don't fauci my florida. that is all about political position. and to be fair, there's been a lot of political posturing around the pandemic, from liberals and democrats as well. but, the deeper problem here is that there's always been this sense, among republicans, and republican politicians, not all of them, but the vast range already that covid essentially an invented threats, the lives are making this up. you need to manage and move along and not freak out.
now, i do think there's a complex relationship between who is leading the pushback to say covid measures, particularly vaccines, and who is following. but because most of that, if you gave most republican politicians through truth serums they would tell you that once the vaccines were available, the goal for republicans was essentially to have their cake and needed to. meaning, let the biden administration, which i think republican secretly know is certainly far more competent than the trump administration, generally wants to solve the problem. let the biden administration handled the crisis. let them administer the vaccine across the country, but don't lift a finger to aid them. take your shots where you can, maybe also flirt with anti pro-vaccine rhetoric like tucker carlson, and that way you can have your kick a need to. you get your state vaccinated, open up businesses, not submerge your hospital but also wipe your hands up the whole thing and maintain a good standing up the base that is
radicalized against public health measures in general. okay? we saw this, states from tennessee, to missouri even florida, ron desantis issued an order about covid mandates. now the perfect example of the inherent contradictions of this, are the republicans who refused to say if they are vaccinated. tucker carlson for example is using the same line to multiple reporters comparing sharing his vaccination status to sharing his favorite sex positions, he has used that line multiple time, it's the line that would maybe be clever from a 12-year-old. he's very proud of it. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene teams that asking her status at a press conference is a hippo violation, it's not. and wouldn't you expect her to be the first person to tell you that she's not vaccinated and be proud about it? but for some reason she didn't want to answer. neither did tucker carlson. i wonder what their vaccination said this is? today, ronny jackson asked why
democrats don't get asked if they have been vaccinated, and the answer is because they have been and they told everyone, because they want out of the people to get vaccinated. in fact, a bunch of reporters, every member got vaccinated, and you should to. because they want people to not get killed from covid. and i think what has happened here, as i try to make sense of what we are seeing in the last few days, i do think that with all the propaganda and all the political posturing, a lot of republicans convince themselves they're really is not a big deal, they couldn't get off with a hands off approach. guess what? we keep free learning the same lesson over and over again, don't we folks? doesn't go anywhere, it is the same thing. it's out there. we may be done with covid, covid is not done with us. we have a variant that is 60% more transmissible, huge pools of unvaccinated people, and nearly all restrictions that we're helping to keep the virus
in check, venues, businesses, and social events, nightclubs, concerts are gone. so what do you think all three of those things add up to? well, you get an outbreak precisely like peter hotez said would happen. peter hot>> remember this timer we were looking pretty good and then we had that enormous acceleration after the july 4th holiday, july, august, september was terrible in that part of the country, and we have to assume that mother nature is telling us that that same thing is going to happen again. so i'm really holding my breath. >> doctor hotez is not a politician. just because he's an expert doesn't mean he's infallible but he doesn't have a dog in the fight from a political standpoint. that is his best assessment. here is florida governor ron desantis laughing at him. here's where florida cases are now, this is what the graph looks like. look at that spike at the end.
so thank you, governor desantis for telling people to get vaccinated. but we really could've use this much sooner, i'm glad you're doing it, let's keep it up. maybe instead of selling t-shirts, we could talk about how the vaccine has saved peoples lives. this is not about people with a certain political persuasion getting the virus or dying of it, i don't care, no one cares really, i think. it's really not about politics, everything is about politics to some level, but this, shouldn't be, or shouldn't be about politics in the way that it has become. i hope this is a final moment to change that model of thinking, among everyone, alike. this is not a fundamental problem. let's >> get everyone vaccinated let's save as many lives as possible and then we can just fight about all the other stuff leader. ron airing is a republican strategist who serves as spokesperson for the --
works with a bunch of other candidates as well and joins me now, ron, i want to talk to you because you have been someone, you are very conservative, i don't think we really see eye to eye on much politically but you've been outspoken about vaccinations, about the benefits of them and about the need for folks to get vaccinated and i wonder, as someone who works with republicans, what do you think this happened in the last few days? what do you think th>> i think clearly something has happened back in washington but i don't work in washington, i live here in california where the republicans who i work with every day on a recall campaign to replace great davis are all vaccinated and have encouraged people to get vaccinated, i got vaccinated on the very first day i possibly could, even though i got the appointment three hours away, ike had to drive three hours away, i got a moderna shot, three weeks after i got my second shot. and it's incumbent upon, opinion leaders of all backgrounds to encourage people
who are able to get the vaccine to do so, so that we can put this pandemic away, because if we fail to do so, and this becomes endemic, we're gonna be dealing with this, and our children are gonna be dealing with this forever, and we have an opportunity to get rid of this disease now. the only way to do that is by getting 80, 90% of americans vaccinated, and that means people from all different backgrounds who have influence should be encouraging people who follow them, opinion leaders to do so and share their story if they've been vaccinated. what happened? i had a little soreness. the risk of covid is so much greater than any type of risk from the vaccine. >> yes, you've mentioned the recall of great davis which was the last recall, republicans did succeed that time around. we will see what happens. i want to play you this clip that has been going around from
cbs news, it just shows that there is this machinery and it is largely on the right, not exclusively, i've encountered people on the left that are anti factors, but there has been this machinery messaging folks that there is some nefarious things to be skeptical of. this was a person who is explaining why he will not get vaccinated after this. here i am, recovering, getting out of here tomorrow. and i'm gonna go get the vaccine? no. >> why not? >> because there's too many issues with these vaccines. >> this father, former baseball coach, small business owner, caught covid and then developed the mona. >> before you got sick, if you have had a chance to get the vaccine and prevent this, would you have taken vaccine? >> no. >> so you're gonna go through this? >> yes sir. don't shut down my throat. that's what local state,
federal administration is trying to. do is try to shut down your throat. >> what are they trying to shove, the science? >> no it's their agenda. the agenda is to get you vaccinated. >> ron, i thought that was a fascinating clip because there is not really a substantive objection, it's the fact that those people are trying to make you, which has been the focus of a lot of the republican conservative line about vaccines. >> i live in san diego, home of jaundice all, who developed the polio vaccine, and clearly vaccines are something that i've been the greatest medical advancement in the 20th century, and it's an incredible thing that we were able to develop the vaccine for covid so quickly. but when i watch that footage, of course, i'm thankful that that gentlemen did not succumb to the disease like 600,000 other americans have. but i don't think that it's a reporter who's gonna be the per right person to persuade him.
it takes people peers, people he's gonna listen to, to convince him. vaccine activism did not begin with covid, it did not begin with republicans, we were dealing with outbreaks, here in california, that began in disney, of measles. and we have a hooping cough epidemic here, a resurgence of hooping cough, and we have pockets of that occurring in places which were more left leaning. because there are people like jenny mccarthy, other anti vaccine activists on the left where activating -- opinion leaders to weigh in. but we have to be persuasive to people. we can't shame anybody, we can't operate anybody, we can't say it's about time you finally came around to our point of view. because the point is to save lives, and we do so by making sure the people understand that the virus is the fire. and people are the fuel. and we have to separate the two. and the way we insulator selves,
from that fire, is through vaccination. it's safe, it's effective, it's incredibly effective. that's why the resurgence of covid were seeing right now is only happening among people who are not vaccinated yet and they need to get it. >> i think you're right, there's an interesting ideological mix in the anti-vaccine movement, going back. while i think that we're seeing a realignment where it's moved further to the right, it's brought people into the right, interestingly enough. we've seen that throughout the pandemic. we see it across the world in other countries where there is an interesting alignment there. but i'm on board with you 100 percent. whatever it takes, whoever the messenger is, i just hope that people stay on this, it's not -- thank you for making time for us tonight. >> you see we do agree on something, thank you. >> yes. vaccines. the great uniter. please don't let yourself get a bad case of covid if you can
avoid it. yesterday nancy pelosi put an end to the republican effort to disrupt the work of a select committee. today there is new report that the speaker is adding more republicans to the investigation. we will be talking about the next. the next [♪♪] looking to repair dry, damaged hair without weighing it down? try pantene daily moisture renewal conditioner.
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monument. it was -- and wide. and -- >> but if you could've wave your hand -- >> and there was a loving crowd to, by the way. there was a lot of love. i've heard that from everybody, many many people have told me. there was a loving crowd. >> that was of course, former president donald trump talking to washington post reporters about the, quote, loving crowd at the january rally before the insurrection. now people from the, said, loving crowd but -- continue that the continues. the house select committee is now moving forward. today, nancy pelosi defended her decision to continue without any of the republican picked by kevin mccarthy after she veto two of them and he pulled the remaining three. >> a select committee is bipartisan and it has a quorum, and it will do the job it sets
out to. do as my responsibility as speaker of the house to make sure we get to the truth on this, and we will not let their antics stand in the way of that. >> one republican, liz cheney, wyoming, remains on the committee. there have been discussions about pelosi potentially adding other republicans for instance, kinzinger from illinois. kitty hill is a former congresswoman from the -- she is an author of she will rise, in the battle for equality. katie, let me start with you as someone who knows nancy pelosi. where do you think of the move she made here, it's surprised. you because it surprised me a little bit actually. >> it didn't surprise me that she took jordan and banks off. having those two on there would've been like having bin laden's lieutenant serve as a
commission on 9/11. but jim jordan and his colleagues played a role and what happened on january six. and to pretend that that was anything otherwise is to ingenuous. i've sat with him, he's gonna do -- he would do everything he could possibly could to derail, distract, completely undermined the commission itself. and i think saying, forget, it we're not gonna be a part of the circus, it's a good move. >> yes, i think the last -- one of the things that came through yesterday was, the republicans didn't want a bipartisan commission because they didn't want something with gravitas and they didn't want something that they can run down as partisan. they are always gonna say the select committee is partisan, so if they're gonna do it anyways, why -- basically, why give these guys a big platform to just throw dust in the air? >> exactly. there are certain objective truths here. it is bipartisan because list
cheney is on the committee, whatever you think of this cheney, she's on it. another objective truth is that they would've complained anyway. they already were complaining. and the third objective truth is this, the credibility of this committee is now increased, not decreased. too many people, in our profession, quote, unquote, neutral journalists are saying stuff like this will affect the credibility of the committee. no, if you let it. if you report what's going on, jim jordan was removed from the committee, someone who was able to destroy from the inside. jim jordan who has, liz cheney put, it is a potential material witness, talking about the involvement in these people. jim jordan is going to stop the steal rally in november 5th in pennsylvania, he stop -- he was in the white house conspiring with donald trump about plans for january 6th on december the 21st.
so like the committee to investigate all those things. i don't want jim jordan investigating himself. i don't want a 9/11 truth are investigating 9/11, i don't want someone pro insurrection investigating an insurrection. >> all of that is very well said, banks, we should also say who is on this republican city trip to the border, where there is apparently someone who was inside the capital on the day of the riot who was along with them and the pictures were taken. so this is fairly fresh on people's minds. but it's also, to mattie's point, katie, it points to the difficulty that i'm watching, when you look at corporate america, with its donations, or the sort of beltway press, or whatever, it's hard for people to maintain the line that was erected about that vote. and the violations and the taboo to not seek the electors. and to resist the poll of getting back to normal and maintain that day after day. >> yes. that's exactly what the republicans, who are perpetuating this lie, who are
rewriting the narrative of what happened on january 6th, are counting on. they know that the more that it's normalized, the more that they can continue acting like it was a regular day of tourism, or was simply a failed security thing. all of that is part of the actual intention behind it. and they had their opportunities to do a bipartisan commission. they had the chance to do that. and they had these ridiculous reasons that they couldn't do it then, or they wouldn't do it then. so let's not pretend that this is anything except them trying to prohibit us from finding out the truth. we have to get to the bottom of it and if it means the democrats are doing it on their own, with the very few republicans that are willing to stand up to their party and to this craziness that is taken ahold of it, the republican party is not a legitimate party anymore. i don't think that anyone who's rational at this point can see and otherwise. >> yes, and i think we were talking about that, adam kinzinger, who also voted for impeachment, who has been extremely critical of the
insurrection and of trump, i think you and i have the same feeling about the full portfolio of list she's views, politics, record in public life. two thumbs down. other than this, but it does strike me as important to sort of keep this line as a dividing line. the same way that with vaccinations, we just did a block with a republican but i don't agree with, it strikes me that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to put another republican on who, again, you could trust to work in good faith to figure out what happened. >> i think we have to be clear, chris. what's the purpose, what's the goal. it tells you everything that you need to know. in case you mentioned how legitimate they are, the same wing of the republican party, is this teeny the re-promoter of the iraqi war and cia torture. adam kinzinger, fine, adam, don't, adam frankly, nor kinzinger, or senior are going to convince the republican base
sadly. that's a problem that we're in, there is no solution to deal with that pace. some of trump supporters we believe -- that is bonkers, i don't know with the solution to that is. i don't know where it's coming from -- it's coming from our friends on another channel right now. there will be a next time. the republicans will be encouraging an insurrection, they will be encouraging it. n,>> and you're right, kings in your does not solve that problem which is the big problem. many hassan, katie hill, thank you both, i appreciate it. coming up we have big updates on two stories we've been covering here on all in, first, in tennessee were a monument to a founder of the kkk is finally about to be removed from the state house. and, some remarkable new reporting about the kidnapping
the greatest villains of american history, you may not know too much about him depending on what you learned in school. so quick recap. it's a plantation owner in a slave trader who joined the army at the start of the civil war and became a general, his most infamous act in that position in the war came at the battle of fort pillow, that's an 1864, when nathan bedford forest soldier slaughtered union troops, many of them black and many of whom were attempting to surrender. it was an atrocity. it was recognized at such at the time, this is an article from the new york herald on april 14th 1864, telling of a horrific massacre, the dead and wounded burned by confederate forces. it reverberated throughout the country as one of the most
vital crimes of the civil war. but he wasn't done yet. after the confederacy was defeated, forced managed to escape justice, he was not imprisoned nor executed, he went back to civilian life and became an early member of the ku klux klan, in fact it was the first and most notorious grand wizard of the kkk. in 1978, over 100 years after forests death, the tennessee state capital installed a bust in his honor. the bust, as you might imagine, immediately drew protests and support from well, the kkk. who were pictured here holding a press conference in front of it in 1980, they of course would love to see one of their former members represented in the state capital, wouldn't? a whole lot of people have been tried to get rid of nathan bedford force bust ever since it was installed, their efforts were met with resistance. protests have been going on since 2015, london lamar was part of that fight earlier this year she told us why removing
the bust was so important to her. >> every day i have to walk into make legislation for all people of tennessee, i have to walk past a clansmen before i go into the peoples house, our state capital is recognizing and supporting the first grand wizard of the kyky, and a building that should be a building where all people can feel that we are entering these chambers to represent them and make their lives better. >> well today, finally we got word the bust will be removed. the state building commissioner voted 5 to 2 to approve the relocation of the forced bus to the museum, those no votes were from republican members. this afternoon crews began preparing for the move. again, nathan bedford forrest is not some on the bubble figure like oh your projecting back your modern sensibilities, he had a complicated legacy, he was one of the most controversial and loath man in the country at the time, he was a despicable war criminal and it is about time that this
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general six insurrection there was another group that had been talking about instigating a civil war. according to the fbi they were hatching a plot to kidnap gretchen whitmer, the man spotted her vacation home, and wanted to blow up a bridge to distract authorities, they wanted to take the governor hostage before the november election. according to criminal complaint, take her to a secure location for a quote trial. the six men were charged with conspiracy to commit kidnapping which can carry a life sentence. governor whitmer at the time type of plot to donald trump and his criticism of her and her state over covid protocols. remember in april of last year when michigan was a lot down trump tweeted liberate michigan, two weeks later protesters opposed to lockdown, entered the michigan in the gallery and
try to force their way, some of their folks were arm. now when you look at the seams they look familiar. buzzfeed news has revealed a bunch of new details and particularly about the role that fbi informant played in the plot and breaking it up. jessica garrison is all reporter nicole off of that investigation and she joins me now. jessica, first of all, great piece of reporting. the big revelation in your piece is that a number of people involved in this plot, involved in this group, involved in organizing it where themselves fbi informants. tell us more about that? >> so it is true that we always knew, even from the moment the case was announced that there was at least one informant, at least two. and that they had been in the plot. the great revelation of our reporting, and also what has
come out in the court documents and other media, including the detroit free press which has done a great job on this issue is that there were as much as 12 informants, and that those informants played a much larger more active role, one of the informants rose to the second of command, and he was in iraq war veteran and he trained a watchman and other informant invited people to a bunch of meetings when in ohio, one in delaware, and the informants were not passively sitting there wearing wires, they were actively involved with the group. >> now, one of the informants you talk about, the origin story of him being in -- [inaudible] wants to stay in fighting shape while he's working in up [inaudible] but then gets real freaked out
by what he sees and basically goes to law enforcement and says, i don't like this. >> yeah, he's actually testified in court. but yeah, that is exactly right. he wants to train with militia groups and he wants to keep himself in fighting shape and goes to facebook and facebook suggests to him this group called the watchman, and he goes to it and he fills out a survey and he's invited to feel about the serve and before he knows it he is in an a crypt trash at ana app called wired where people are talking about killing police officers, and this guys like wait a minute, i want to run around in the woods, i do want to kill police officers. he goes to a friend who is a local police officer, shows him his phone and the friend connects him with the fbi, and he goes to the fbi is basically like i just think you should know this and he figures were
done here in the fbi has got it. but the fbi says, well, we would like you to rejoin the group but this time with us sitting on your shoulder watching and advising. which he does, and before too long, because he is a training soldier everyone is like oh, your great, you could help us. so he becomes the second in command, and then brings this group in michigan and is there when they connect with groups around the country including a man from michigan coup leaders identified as the leader of the plot to kidnap the governor. so the sort of -- but the subject of these tax here, people in this plot allegedly have claimed essentially they were entrapped. the fbi agents crawling all over them, pushing them to do things. it was like idle chatter, it
was the informants pushing it forward, and there is no precedent for this in a lot of more -- than once that i covered, there's infamously a guy who had someone ask him to's cellmate surface to air missile, and both of them are fbi informants and he ended up being prosecuted by chris christie. what i learned from your story it, didn't seem that egregious at all, but it seems like a complicated question of who side on this on what between good policing and entrapment. >> i think that's a really good question. certainly some of the stuff that happened in the war on terror could make you go, wait a minute. i think this one is really interesting because it's very nuanced. we will the idea of going to the capital with guns, those were ideas that the fbi did not plant those ideas in the minds
of those people. they were actively engaged in actively talking about a lot of stuff that most people would consider most quite horrifying and shocking. and as a general rule, often, if the evidence against you, and this case it's like 400,000 text messages, hundreds of hours of wiretaps, i'm not sure there are many -- besides entrapment. because there's a lot of evidence. that said, i think that for someone who doesn't follow these cases in these kinds of cases closely, the role of the fbi and helping to really work with these people, texas people, at all hours of the day into night, being with him, is quite huge. >> and the question that lingers over your reporting, but for those informants, does this plot come together? but for those informants, do
you not catch people who would have really done something really grisly about it? it's a great piece of reporting, jessica garrison, thank you so much for making time tonight. >> thank you so much. have a good night. >> still ahead, should health care workers be required to get the covid vaccine. the debate over vaccine requirements in health care settings, after this. ings, after this
health are the primary government agency for public health is research. it is huge. 20,000 employees. last night, the head of the agency was on the show. and i asked about vaccine requirements and his answer kind of dreamy for luke. >> i run a hospital, the national institute of health, as the largest research hospital in the world. i would like very much to be sure that all of the people interact with immunocompromised patients are immunized against covid-19. right now i cannot require it
because this is still emergency use, but i sure as heck are exhorting people to do that. >> you catch that? the largest research hospital in the planet has not yet have the authority to require the vaccine amongst its employees although local hospitals are doing just that. better health is requiring employees to get the covid-19 vaccine. the houston methodist in texas are asking them to get vaccinated by june 7th. over 150 health care workers refused and were fired as a result. in new york, city run hospitals where as to get vaccinated or tested on a weekly basis. right now only most 60% of the workforce is vaccinated. a recent opinion piece and the stat said that the health care workers highest g is to -- health care workers promise
patients -- will pat king joins me now. are you vaccinated yourself? >> yes chris, i was vaccinated back in january and i also volunteered at city run vaccination center. >> would our the -- in your membership of nurses in new york, do you have a sense of what the numbers are in terms of vaccination of the folks in your membership? >> well i would say among our members, we are at least over 70% right now. >> we now my understanding is there's talk about a vaccine mandate in new york and your union is opposed to it, which i found so much surprising although i can kind of understand the logic of. it explained to me your opposition to a vaccine requirement. >> thanks a lot chris, and thanks for having me on. our opposition to a mandate is
really that in the face of employers fighting us on having proper infection control, fighting compensation claims of health care workers, fighting -- we don't think it's appropriate for them to be mandating vaccination until they meet our demands and do the things we've been asking them to do. really since before covid hit this country. we >> but that just makes it sound like you're using the vaccination requirement as a kind of bargaining chip in the negotiation, even though it seems plainly the case that would make everyone in the hospital safer if all the health care workers were vaccinated. >> vaccination isn't enough, and i think we've seen that recently. it's no surprise that the spike that we're seeing and the surge that we're seeing in cases is happening right after a mask mandates and social distancing
were lifted. so vaccination alone isn't the only thing that's gonna keep people safe. and our patients and our hospitals, if we just vaccinate the health care workers, but we're not implementing proper infection control standards, recognizing finally everyone transmission, our patients are not gonna be safe in the hospitals. just the workers that are vaccinated. >> right, but i'm confused, because it sounds like it's not sufficient, but it does seem like it's better -- like i agree with you that vaccination itself, particularly in the hospital setting where it's at the beginning in the end of the question of infection control, but it's the beginning when there is a safe and available vaccine to -- just in the sense of population level risk, we'd like, clearly there will be lower population risk amongst a vaccinated workforce than one that is 70%
vaccinated, or 50, percent or whatever. >> as long as we're doing the other things that we need to do, proper source control and proper infection control, than i would agree with you. i'm not arguing at all that -- i want all of my nurses to be vaccinated. i do not want to lose another nurse to this disease or have an effective family member. we are absolutely encouraging our members to get vaccinated, our objection really is -- you know, were nurses, and whenever we talk to patients, we know that when force comes into the equation, we lose their trust. and right now, we believe that the priority is to win back the trust the -- of health care workers. and help them heal from the trauma that they have been through. i think it's incredible to be questioning the dedication of health care workers right now when we've seen them time and time again really put their lives at risk to go in there and care for these patients.
>> we i don't to be clear, i'm not crushing the dedication. i think actually i'm just really trying to understand because, precisely for the reason you talked about, we talked to so many health care workers on the show over the past 18 months. we've seen the tremendous rise, the stories of unbelievable amounts of grief and exhaustion that is coming from this. and i think it's surprising to a lot of people, and i've seen stats from health care systems that have had 50% of workers vaccinated, 55%. after that experience, there would be so many folks inside a hospital setting, a hotbed for the transmission of infection, who don't want to get vaccinated. i think it's just something i'm trying to wrap my head around. >> sure. i get that. is it really surprising to anyone that health care workers are not trusted in the system right now? this is the same system that fraught them on property infection control, on giving them in 95 when they needed one,
and -- that we've suffered a breach of trust among health care workers. we >> trust i guess is the theme of our era in many ways. pat that is "all in" on this thursday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. here's the front page today in the shreveport times in shreveport, louisiana. you see the arrow there, new surge. it says low vaccination rates and delta variant fuel rising numbers in new covid cases across the south. that's the shreveport times in louisiana. here's the front page in the news star, which is up in monroe in northeast louisiana. hospitals see rise in covid cases.