tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 22, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
oregon joins me live. then, -- >> unless speaker pelosi reverses quartz and sees all five republicans, we will not participate. >> house republicans take their ball and go home over the january six investigation. plus, -- >> we have two epidemics going on right now, one of them is biological, caused by virus, and the other is informational. >> the head of the national institutes of health, on how to fight covid misinformation. then -- >> there are very few businesses that have survived [inaudible] >> the latest on the arrest of tom barrack and what it could tell us on the ex presidents action in the middle east. when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. for the last two days, much of the northeast and midwest look like this. hayes and the sun a thick smog over an entire region of this country that is very much not
used to it. unlike the mountain west, which lives with forest fire, this kind of smoke has felt dystopian and new. in fact, it's not just your imagination of it feels that way to you, if you live in that part of the country, the air quality index in parts of newark city yesterday was over 170, which is the worst it has never been in 14 years. when you think about that air quality, there is no way to escape it. no matter how much money you have, where you live, in the end, everyone has to prove the same air. it's a real wake up call yesterday for everyone in the parts of the country covered with the smoke. breathing that same air that emanated from wildfires thousands of miles away in the west. turns out, we share the same climate with them. right now there are more than 80 fires burning across the 13 states, many more burning across canada. and as this incredible new york times interactive map shows the smoke from those fires is why the air is so hazy in these
parts of the country. here on the eastern seaboard in the east west. the biggest fire in the country this year is the bootleg fire in oregon, you can see there on the map. it's about the size of los angeles has burned more than 340,000 acres of forest. it is so large that it is generating its own weather, like fire clouds that managed to create their own lightning, and even fire tornadoes. the bootleg fire like so many out west is fueled by the drought, and last month's record heat, you may remember that june was the hottest june on record in nearly 130 years. records were broken across the northwest, with multiple days topping 100 degrees. completely unseen before. in oregon in washington, nearly 200 people lost their lives to the heat. across the west, thousands more are now on the path of fast moving in dangerous wildfires. it's not just happening in the u.s.. siberia, which, if you know one thing about it, you think it's cold, famous for its freezing
temperatures, it is experiencing its worst fire season in memory. 4 million acres burned with villages already evacuating their children because of the dangerous smoky air. in germany last week, hundreds were killed and dozens of towns destroyed by the worst flooding in 1000 years, tens of thousands of people are still without gas in power. in china, another once in 1000-year event, nearly a year's worth of rain falling in just three days. causing flooding that was so intense it left passengers trapped on a subway car as water poured in from all sides. hundreds of people had to be rescued, a dozen passengers died. extreme temperatures, extreme wetness, extreme drought, extreme weather events like this, as we said many time, the new normal. a new normal that has been brought to us by decades of inaction, let chiefly by fossil fuel interest, the politicians they donate to an american right, and american media,
devoted to denying signs and opposing change while speeding us towards this disaster and worst. this is the context for one of the big news stories of this week which is, and it seems sort of weird and small in relation to what i just showed you, but the fight over the bipartisan infrastructure bill. you mapping today there was a procedural vote just to begin debate on that bill, that failed because republicans filibustered it. even though the bill omits a ton of what president biden had pledged to support in the campaign trail to fight climate change. it does include 47 billion dollars to help communities become more resilient to disasters and severe weather caused by a warming planet. and up to an additional 530 billion to support electric vehicles, public transit, energy and tax credits and some other climate friendly policies. sounds like a lot of money. i guess. you remember the trump tax cuts alone cost the government 2.3 trillion dollars, okay?
those tax cuts which by the way continue to fuel inequality and produce a world in which the richest man on earth seeks to leave it with aims of polluting a new frontier. >> we need to take all heavy industry, all polluting industry and move it into space. and keep earth as this beautiful gem of a planet that it is. that is going to take decades and decades to achieve, but you have to start. >> i saw that cold yesterday and 100% thought it was a parody. but that is what he said. the rest of us, couldn't get on a rocketship yesterday to escape what is going on. this is the one planet we have and, we're all in it together whether bezos thinks he can get away with it or not. what is going to happen as the disasters intensify in ways that we have only started to get our heads around is that people are going to start moving to escape climate catastrophe. as i wrote in a piece for the 25th anniversary of msnbc, in the last decades in the u.s. we've seen a steady migration
driven by weather, and not the weather board of climate change but whether people choosing to leave or winter, moving to the sun belt, this pacific northwest to get away from harsh winters, guess what? a lot of those places that people have moved to over the last few decades are the ones getting rocked by our declining climate. we're probably going to see massive migrations again as the climates we have been acclimated to change rapidly and in some cases rendering places in our own country, essentially, unlivable. all of this, what you're seeing there, this is what is happening right now day by day while the republican party fiddles and the right wing men that whips of a frenzy against an imagined threat or tries to get people not to get their covid vaccine. fires are courting the west the smoke is coursing -- and as they put it, no one is safe. governor kate brown joins me
now. first, governor, maybe you can give us an update on how things are with the fire in your state. >> thank you, chris, for having me. we are incredibly grateful to the firefighters battling the bootleg fire in southern oregon. of roughly 300,000 acres, we have 2000 firefighters on the fire, and we are working hard to make sure that it is contained. i literally got a text from governor murphy yesterday new jersey saying that they were seeing the smoke in new jersey from these wildfires in the west. and you are absolutely right, climate change is here and we must be taking action. we must be better prepared and we must do everything we can to mitigate the effects on our people. >> you know, i think of organize a pretty wet place but i know it is a big state and the parts and i think our wet are probably those that are more coastal. but i wonder sometimes whether states like yours or states
around the country have modeling or planning regimes that allow them to think about what is an oregon fire season going to look like over the next 25 years and what that means for where people develop and where people move in your state. do you have your hands around that? >> we're working on it. to give you a sense of the fire season this year, we've had twice as many fires and burned at least four times the acreage as this time last year. the reports on the ground from the bootleg fire or that the conditions are napalm like. we have a couple of things happening, drought, and unseasonally warm climate, and it is creating the perfect storm for these catastrophic fires. but i think there is a couple of things, number one, we have to take action and that is what we are doing here in oregon. we have now one of the most aggressive clean energy policies in the country, we are
working to invest in ev infrastructure on the climate side to reduce our reliance on carbon fuels. secondly, we have got to mitigate these fires and with legislation i just signed this week, we are going to invest in more modern firefighting equipment. more people on the ground. frankly, the efforts to create more resilient landscapes. thirdly, obviously, we have to be better prepared for these climate emergencies. just to give you perspective, since april of 2020, we have had for federal emergency declarations in oregon. and addition to the pandemic, we had the horrific wildfires of last fall, we had flooding, we had ice storms in february, and of course most recently, we've had the horrific heat dome event.
>> it strikes me that a large part of governance, in any time, is managing disaster. but that that is going to become a larger and larger part of what governance mean in the century. it's not just this one off, but disaster management preparation, mitigation and then dealing with the aftermath is actually going to be a central thing that governance is about. >> that is absolutely right. you mentioned the green parts of oregon which are primarily the willamette valley, last year we've had evacuations in a county, literally next door to portland our largest city, and a very green city both literally and figuratively. in terms of emergency preparedness, and management, we have been in crisis management mode. in terms of these climate change events. i am incredibly grateful that
we have the biden, harris administration in the white house that understands that we need comprehensive, collaborative partnerships to develop wildfire strategies for the entire western region. as you know, climate change knows no boundaries and certainly these wildfires don't know either. >> all right governor kate brown of organ, thank you so much for making time for us. no line is a profess of climate justice, at the university of british columbia author of a number of books including on fire the burning case for a green new deal and she joins me now. naomi, i know that you have reported and written about migration and population movement in response to the warming of the planet. i think it is something that we don't think about a lot because we don't think of our era of being an error, like the great northern migration were huge amounts of people are going to move amount, but it seems to me inevitable that they're going to be huge population
displacement and movements in the era that we're entering in right now. >> well, i think we're in that era, chris. it's good to be with you. when we see this huge migrations from central america, climate is already a driver, a un figure puts it at 20 million people on the move because of the climate crisis. and there's often an intersection of issues. it isn't just one single issue that pushes people to make that decision to move, it's usually multiple issues. you're talking about migration within the united states, that is not something that we talk enough about. that is happening. if we think about the paradise fire, the campfire in 2018, that burned paradise california to the ground, that fire displaced 50,000 people at its peak and the neighboring community chico suddenly had 20,000 new neighbors, that is
significant because chico only has 100,000 people. one of the officials talked about that as 35 years of growth overnight, okay? you go from 100,000 220, 000, that raises all of these issues about housing, transit, all kinds of infrastructure and that is why we need such an expansive approach to what we think of as disaster management. it's not just firefighters, though it is certainly firefighters, it is what makes a community resilient, able to absorb shocks and in chico, it's all been about the lack of affordable housing. so when we think about something like a green new deal, we often hear these critiques like what is housing doing in their? what is health care doing in their? education? that is disaster preparedness, because it is investing in the infrastructure that is going to allow people to absorb these kinds of shocks that are locked in. re locke
>> yeah the locked in part is the hard parts to get our heads around because we're coming up on one degree of warming, we're probably going to get to at least one more, with the carbon which put in the air. i do think, i mean there's a lot of grim news, but one thing that is palpable to me is that this issue rising a peoples party list. this caught my eyes today, the economists has been pulling people, they asked them open-ended questions about what are you most concerned about and one of the polls say that it's americans rank climate change as their top issue. if you watch the political discussion if nothing else in the u.s., the salient and privacy of this has gone up, partly in correlation to the frequency of disaster. >> yeah, it is a reminder that when it comes to the political calculus of the climate crisis, we often hear from politicians
we have to meet people where they're at. where people are at changes and it's never wise to count out the earth climate system as a key actor in this, right? our planet has a way of intervening in these debates and changing peoples views very quickly, and i think that that is what is happening, and you are white, that poll is dramatic it's the first time that climate has ranked second. and crime, gun control, abortion, education all trail behind. as you know, chris, in some ways i think separating out climate from other issues like the economy, or health, it's in some ways it doesn't make sense, climate isn't an issue it's our literal infrastructure. we are all inside it, and every other issue is inside climate. but it is really striking that people feel that sense of urgency now. well i had that thought yesterday -- >> it changes what's possible. >> yes, i had that thought
yesterday while i was reading unhealthy air on -- 176. and i remember reading articles about political mobilizing issues in china clean air. and the article read as if you are rich businessmen in shanghai, there are many things that you can do, but at the end of the day, you still have to go outside and walk in the same air as everyone in shanghai does. and you have to send your kids out to play in it. and i thought about that yesterday, there is literally no escape from this air. wherever you are, obviously people have to work outside, but there is a commonality here i hope is increasingly daunting on people that -- we don't get out of this one. >> i live in british columbia and we've had this experience summer after summer. and there is something unique about that claustrophobia, especially in the place where most people don't have air conditioning or any of those
kinds of filters. because the truth is you can buy your way out of of it out of a little bit, you can have a shielded, climate controlled environment. and private schools are under domes, so never underestimate what these superrich will do to escape the impacts of the air it behavior. just look at jeff bezos in his cowboy hat, standing next to horizon -- we spoke to the astronauts we had this sort of what ecological awakening, they didn't think that they would be scouting for way stumps. >> an awakening! . true >> i can say that i am surprised by these guys, but that was something else. >> going up to space, we about where the soviet jog like went,
but i had a revelation that we have to pollute up. there it's always a pleasure to talk to you, thank you for making time for us tonight naomi cline. as i mentioned, you can read my essay on how heat is going to start restructuring our lives. after kevin mccarthy, the main disappointments of that select committee, including the members who try to overturn the election. there was a question as to whether pelosi would exercise the partially had reserved. in fact we as that question on this very show last night. we have an answer. next, our speaker -- will kick take down by kevin mccarthy by fellow republican, all of that after the break. that after the break.
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see this one coming today. two days after house minority leader kevin mccarthy named his five republican choices to sit in the select committee, investigating the january six insurrection, pelosi rejected two of those choices. jim johnson and jim banks were -- pelosi explained in a statement, quote, with respect for the integrity of the investigation, with an insistence on the truth and with concerned about statements made and actions taken by these members, i must reject the recommendations of -- the unprecedented nature of
january six demands this unprecedented decision. but mccarthy responded by yang king the rest of his suggestions out of the committee and pelosi is responsible for politicizing the committee. >> it's just a piece of powder. well aussie has broken this institution. she has created a sham process. we unless speaker pelosi rig versus course and receipts all five republicans, we will not participate. >> they voted against a bipartisan commission! ed i do few bottom to rehydrate that. but even though kevin mccarthy takes is bob and goes home, but this cheney was nominated to the committee and cheney was not having any of mccarthy's lies about who's to blame here. >> at every opportunity, the minority leader has attempted to prevent the american people from understanding what
happened. to block this investigation. and the rhetoric around this from the minority leader and from those two members has been disgraceful. this must be an investigation that is focused on facts, and the idea that any of this has become politicized is really unworthy of the office that we all hold and unworthy of our republic. >> do you personally urge the speaker to take a step? >> i agree with what the speaker has done. >> i'm joined now by two excellent reporters who have been tracking this all day. sawhill cooper is a and as and olivia beavers >> sahil. -- . , mcconnell's republicans,
vetoed it by filibuster in the senate. that led us to where we are now. it seems like that history cannot be lost on anyone in the hill? >> chris i think you're right to know that kevin mccarthy has moved the goalposts here when the year began. he said the former president donald trump bears some responsibility for the january 6th attack. he called for an investigation into it and said, yes but speaker pelosi, please give us equal representation, please make sure republicans have equal say in subpoena power, and one by one, pelosi made those concessions. mccarthy tapped his ranking members of the homeland security committee, john katko, to go shape. that they came to a deal, mccarthy ultimately said he does not support that because he wants the scope of that investigation to extend beyond the january 6th attack. he also wants to investigate other forms of political
violence associated with the left. that was a deal breaker for speaker pelosi and that's where it all fell apart. i should note here, 30 house republicans did vote for that -- but now the choice has become for democrats when republicans were not going to give the bipartisan -- democrats are going to be used of running a sham process regardless of what happened. this decision by speaker pelosi according to democrats, this process is about her choosing to keep republicans off the committee that she believes are going to be running interference on behalf of former president trump. specifically jim jordan and jim banks whom she believes were linked to individuals, and or meetings associated to the january 6th attack, chris. >> olivia, i want to play today, cheney seems like an in interesting number here. she's very outspoken, she voted for impeachment, we have reporting that she curse that jim jordan and said you caused
this on the day of the insurrection, when they were huddled in some secret location. she's on the committee now and i'm curious, what she does here, let's look at what she says here and i want to get your reaction to how important you think that was and how much coordination there was with the speaker. >> today, the speaker objected to two republican members. she accepted three others, she rejected to. one of whom may well be a material witness to events that led to that day, that led to january six. the other who disqualified himself by his comments in particular over the last 24 hours demonstrating that he is not taking this seriously. he is not dealing with the facts of this investigation, but rather viewed it as a political platform. >> what do you think the effects of that are and what to make of the meaning of cheney rising to the defensive pelosi there? >> that certainly was something
that was really an incredible moment today watching that. seeing that list cheney is saying she supported pelosi's decision to boot off banks and jordan, we actually heard that pelosi and her office consulted with this cheney before this decision was made. so she was -- they're able to sauce out their plan, and now we have cheney saying that she supports it. and chris, you won't be surprised to hear that republicans that i talked to were very pissed off about cheney doing this. they were trying to say that she's going to be a democrat if she's not one already, even though she is one of the more traditional house conservatives. just go look at her voting record. but this is a member that democrats are going to lean on, that they say is going to be part of their credibility credibility for having a bipartisan investigation. and republicans are saying that she does not count effectively. >> part of the political
calculation here sahil, but i don't think this is the most important thing, but to your point, here trump didn't want an independent commission because would have more stature and credibility. so they turned against. it same reason mcconnell whipped against it, is why mccarthy won against, that they want to be able to attack commissions as partisan and they will go after whatever the makeup was. it seems like pelosi is saying, and none of, you're gonna run against us anyway! >> there is a difference of opinion chris between how the two parties have come to view january six and what congress should do about it. republicans have come to believe the vast majority of it. they think that the justice -- they should arrest people, make their charges, and that the justice system should work it out. democrats believe that it was fundamentally -- a fundamental crisis, an attack on american democracy that needs to be zeroed on and investigated as a way to prevent anything like that from
happening again, to save the american experiment. i've talked to many democrats in the emphasized, and the, overemphasize and the reemphasize that part. i think they believe that, i don't think they're blowing smoke. that difference ended up being irreconcilable especially if you factor in the uncomfortable reality for republicans which is, it was supporters of donald trump who violently attacked this building in an attempt to overturn the results of the election, to overturn biden's victory. so the day of, there are many republicans who appeared very tribal by this but as time has gone, on the politics have turned, and will republicans have taken it in a different direction. >> olivia beaver and sahil kapur, thank you so much for taking time for us. don't go anywhere, the latest on the arrest of donald trump's inaugural committee chair and what it might reveal about the trump administration's very
shady for entanglements. that is next. that is next sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage so we don't have to worry about it" conversation. so you're calling about the $9.95 a month plan -from colonial penn? -i am. we put it off long enough. we are getting that $9.95 plan, today. (jonathan) is it time for you to call about the $9.95 plan? i'm jonathan from colonial penn life insurance company. sometimes we just need a reminder not to take today for granted. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance starting at just $9.95 a month. there are no health questions so you can't be turned down for any health reason. the $9.95 plan is colonial penn's
eastern district of new york unsealed a huge seven count, 46 page indictment yesterday against trump found razor and inaugural committee chairman tom barrack, charging him for acting as an agent for the united arab era merits. now, we all of course remember special counsel robert mueller was investigating russian sabotage of the 2016 election, you heard about that for years, over the course of his investigation, mueller also started to look into whether lobbyist for the uae were funneling millions of dollars to the trump campaign, and now with the indictment of tom barrack that profoundly shady and we are relationship with queen trump world in the united arab emirates is starting to make a little bit more sense. so we know that three months before the 2016 election happened, donald trump jr. met with an emissary for two
wealthy arab princes at the trump tower. the emissary told trump junior at the time that the princes, the de facto rulers of both saudi arabia in the uae, were eager to help his father win election as president. a few months later donald trump did win. and that crown prince from the uae flew to new york to meet with the president elect, now as a new yorker reports, it is customary for foreign leaders to notify the american government when they travel to the u.s. but he did not do so. in fact he arrived at the meeting with an entourage of about 30 people, he was dressed in combat boots, jeans in some of his men were armed. then on inauguration day donald trump's incoming national security adviser mike flynn was texting with former business partners about a hugely controversial private sector plan that would be funded by the gulf states including uae to bring nuclear energy to the middle east, in fact flynn was
texting about this plan literally ten minutes after donald trump was sworn in as he watched on the day, we have a deal, what's going to happen? seven days into his presidency, donald trump you might remember signed an executive order known as the muslim ban which we'll left out the uae while including other middle eastern countries like syria, yemen and iraq. during trump's first year in office the deputy finance chairman of the national committee was helping spearhead a secret campaign to influence the white house and congress for the crown princes of saudi arabia and the uae, god, that keeps popping up again and again. he was later charged with conspiring to charge -- mr. broidy was a very busy man apparently and on the day before donald trump left office, he pardoned broidy. now we have the indictment of tom barrack who acted to aid the uae and its dealings with the executive branch and u.s. government doing things like
advocating for the appointment of individuals favor by the uae in the new administration taking steps to advance the uae's foreign policy interest by attempting to influence the united states foreign policy. one of the people has been reporting on these influence efforts for years connecting the dots between the uae in trump world between anyone else joins me next. joins me next. nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. icy hot. ice works fast. heat makes it last. feel the power of contrast therapy, so you can rise from pain. flowers are fighters. that's why the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's is full of them. because flowers find a way to break through. just like we will. join the fight at alz.org/walk >> on june 10th 2019 reporters
alex edmund and matthew coal fee of the intercept published this piece it was about a secret operation in the united states by the united arab emirates, including an emerati businessmen and tom bear. burke was a top fund-raiser for trump's campaign, he served as chair of his inaugural committee which would also spur its own investigation. ten days after the articles published the fbi interrogated tom barrack about his activities in relation to the emerati's. they say he repeatedly lied to them. yesterday barrack was arrested charged with acting as an agent of the uae, matthew coles is
one of the reporters who broke that story and he joins me now. matthew, maybe you could just start with describing was your initial reporting uncovered about what you turned an influence operation by the emerati. >> thanks chris, for having me. what we found is that the u.s. government in the u.s. intelligence community had discovered that rashida was acting as an intelligence agent for the head of the emerati intelligence service. and that his job was to conduct, it's not espionage in the sense that he was a spy, he was trying to pull secrets out as much as you try to gain access to the trump white house and assert emerati influence into trump's, the trump administration's foreign policy in particular with the middle east. he used his relationship with
tom barrack, which went back a few years in real estate, as the means to do it. and so what we reported was that the emerati had looked at the trump administration early on and decided that what they were gonna do is to use healthy emerati business people to try to get them into trump's inner circle and rashida who was also charged yesterday with tom barrack, you should note for the same thing, for acting as a foreign agent without registering with the government. >> this influence operation didn't seem that secretive in some ways in so far as the presence of saudi and emerati interests were swirling around the administration and they were constantly doing things that seem to be favorable to the saudis and emiratis, they famously went to saudi arabia first.
give us a sense of what the agenda was here, was it just that the emiratis were fighting with the guitars and wanted the u.s. support for that? was it something bigger, why were they crawling all over the trump administration? >> well, what we know now, looking back after four years is that the emerati's, -- and the uae wanted a total revamp and reset of middle east policy from the u.s., they were very unhappy with the obama administration, and they wanted to come in with a new slate and b -- have someone like trump who was going to be aggressive on iran, for example. it was one such thing. one of the things that you can see, for instance, this week visiting the first gulf monarch to visit the biden mine arc and -- that is not an accident, that is because the uae, what went on between the uae and the trump administration it's just now starting to get picked
through by the biden administration. there was a lot going on that we don't yet know, that i think is going to take more reporting both from journalist but also from the biden administration that is trying to figure out what went on there. yeah and we should note that one of the big priorities for netanyahu, for muhammad inside, was to get a nuclear deal with iran because they were united in their contempt and hostility to the iranian regime and that was ultimately successful. the lobbying of all of those folks ultimately did produce that outcome. one more question, the big mystery that hangs over this, what was in it for barrack? it's not enumerated in the indictment, but he has real estate interest there, what do you make of that? >> well there's sort of two things to look out. our story found that the reason
why he used rashida al malik as an intelligent front, he used his business and real estate background as a lawyer for others around trump. and the and said assumption there is, getting them invested and entwined financially but allow them to exert influence and on trump's inner circle. two, although there is no discussion of money exchanging hands, at the end of the indictment it makes a very clear that if mr. barrett is convicted, they will bring in asset forfeiture, and that raises the question of whether barrack was doing that by being this go-between between the white house and the emiratis and the saudis, that his business, his fund, would get money there was no question that he got. something well over a billion
dollars in investment from the middle east, from the uae after trump became president. >> okay matthew cole, great reporting, and thank you so much for coming on tonight. >> thanks for having me chris. >> still to come, as covid places crime -- director of the nih on the debate over vaccine mandates in offices, hospitals, and beyond. that's next. that's next. you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry direct. they explained life insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. we learned that we can sell all of our policy or keep part of it with no future payments, who knew? we sold our policy. now we can
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rise and every state, schools and workplaces across the country are trying to figure out how to keep people safe. last night, we share the story of how fox news, of all places, has implemented eternal vaccine passport system. yes you heard that right. earlier this week, a federal judge upheld in indiana's university policy that all students and professors be vaccinated on campus. today, with less than 60% new
york city health care workers vaccinated, which they announced that they should get weekly tested and vaccinated. but will this be enough to correct the -- most known for his work with the team responsible for match mapping the genome. he was awarded by general the george bush, he received a price from brooke obama, and he's become the director of the national institutes of health and is responsible for the biomedical health research. he's been the head of this agency during the entire pandemic and doing the spread of the pandemic, they have the most updated information on vaccines and breakthrough infections. he joins me now. doctor collins, is a great pleasure to have you on the program. i thought maybe we'd start with this question on bandits. it's a policy question so
slightly we out of the gamut of pure research, but i'm still cares to get your thoughts about what we know about whether institutions or private companies, or the u.s. army, or the new york city police, for us whether those mandates could be effective in the efforts of vaccination rates? >> if mandates were applied they would definitely increase the vaccination rates. but people want to know is the legal basis for this. in 1905, massachusetts, the supreme court said yes, that is a legal we faces one in order to protect public health that is killing people. we have one now that's killing people called covid-19. there is a health, and basis. well and --
while they have to be fully approved before this legal opportunity kicks. and i went to a hospital, the national institute of health is the largest hospital in the world, i would like very much to be sure that all the people who interact with him and no compromise pea patients are immunized against covid-19. right now i can't require it because it's still emergency use, but i sure as heck and exhorting people to do that, fortunately, they work at nih, they mostly agree. >> what so there is an issue of controversy, which is the use of an organization. critics have said that the full lack of authorization is one of the impediments for more vaccination, for two reasons, one the legal predicate for requirements and mandates, and to because people, if you swim in the waters of vaccine hesitancy or vaccine skepticism,
and they say just emergency use, people of the fda, say look, we have a process and rushing it doesn't help at all. how should we think about this? >> we i think we should think about it thud the likelihood we have fda getting in approval for the -- will potentially happen in the course of the next couple of. and so this is really not a good reason for people to hold off rolling up their sleeve. this is certainly gonna come through. but i do want to defend the fda, they are working 24/7 ongoing through this. they don't want either to be in a circumstance where somebody would say, well you didn't really look at all the details of the manufacturing when thousands of pages of application. they've got to do their job, it's coming. but come on, folks if this is the reason you're deciding not to get immunized, this is a pretty flimsy one. this is definitely the case that these prison vaccines have been proven and there's lots of
data that it is safe. we don't need a full fda approval to accept that. we >> right now we have an outbreak happening in the country, it is primarily operating through hospitalization and severe illness and the unvaccinated. we have cases up to hundred percent in the last two weeks. we have the number of hospitalizations up 49%, deaths 42%. those are -- bookkeeping perpetually surprise that the disease is still there, what is your assessment of this outbreak, how bad it will get, and how people should be thinking about protecting themselves even though they've been vaccinated >> well yes it's like we've been to this movie before, and we don't like the, ending why don't we -- >> we do have something like 62 million people who are fully vaccinated in the country that is getting close to 60%. that is going to protect them.
the good news in our conversation here is, if you're fully vaccinated, even with delta variant out, there even with these numbers going up, it's not probably gonna have much of an impact on you. but if you are unvaccinated, this virus is looking for you and this is the moment it seems that for everybody to hit the reset button, if they've been hesitant about getting immunized. look at what's happening, 99.5% of the deaths in the last few weeks from covid-19 have been unvaccinated people. if we don't want to see that terrible tragedy and the loss of life continue in the space, maybe it's time to get off the fence and say, okay, i've heard these things of about conspiracies. i looked at, them all of, them none of them have a basis. this is one of the most remarkable scientific achievements that humankind is put together, vaccines that are this safe and this effective, is its founding. and i have to say it's
disheartening that still we have some 85 million americans who are resistant to taking advantage to this gift. >> doctor collins, we're out of time but i would love to have you back, there's a lot more that i would like to talk about, including some of the controversy around the wuhan virology lab that's been in the news. so if you could come back that will be great. doctor collins, thank. you >> be glad to. thanks chris. >> fantastic. that is all for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts now. tart now.
staff general mark milley on january 7th. she called him to check in. milley asked her, quote, how are you doing? she replied, quote, that f'ing h guy jim jordan. that son of a -- word that rhymes with witch, cheney said. she was referring to one of trump's staunchest allies in the house of representatives, congressman jim jordan of ohio.t