tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC July 21, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
>> hey, ari. >> hey alicia. welcome to "the beat." president biden is preparing for a speech, we'll be monitoring that. dr. fauci is here live, as covid rises and new varian posed challenges for the delta variant. we begin with the insurrection. speaker pelosi scored a victory here. earlier this month was july 1st, pelosi made her selection for this important committee. some experienced investigators from within her party and some what unusual move to use democratic spots for a prominent and conservative republican liz cheney. pelosi was powered by this
subpoena committee after republicans opposed create a similar commission to do the january 6th probe. tonight the story is it is becoming clear she was steps ahead of them. >> i am very proud to be able to announce some members of that committee this morning. so glad it will be bipartisan from the start.
all eyes with the republican leader mccarthy which been trying to force any pro-life just to begin with. he named five republican members, choosing several on record trying to overturn the election and oppose any probe of the insurrection. one attacking this new committee he may join calling it a sham to justify the left authoritarian's agenda. he spent january 6th voting against the commission like the rioters wanted. leader mccarthy showing his hand by letting things get out of hand. trump favors jim jordan. >> there are so many great republicans, we have great ones. jim jordan are out there
fighting the house. >> really trying to get away from a qanon shaming on this committee. let's see what he thinks. so-called shaming unavailable, he faces criminal charges for january 6th activity and is in jail awaiting trial. can't be on the committee. mccarthy's brazen challenge for the entire purpose of this probe, well, that's what brings us to the big news tonight, pelosi's power move. she rejected those two
republicans i just told you about, using her lawful power as speaker to bar them from serving to protect the integrity. >> this makes sense, no jim jordan and no shaming. just people looking for the facts. there is also politics at play, this is the kind of leadership that liberals had been demanding democratic practice in washington. they say use the power you have. by preinstalling cheney in this, they'll blow things up if they don't get their way and accusing other people in the room failing to be bipartisan. you watched the news and you have seen the tricks played out. pelosi was essentially saying with this move, i wish you would.
he did. that's the clash making so many headlines of this serious and important investigation with the republicans boycotting. >> everybody jim jordan is the such of the truth of the january 6th insurrection. it is why pelosi kept him off the probe to protect it. some things are pretty clear. for all the fighting in washington, this is a simple fact that both sides would agree on if you got them to tell the truth. that's why pelosi is winning on this issue tonight. she's also offering a lesson in balancing power and bipartisanship for any other
washington democrats who want to learn how to do it. she's showing some bipartisanship is possible but by requiring facts. remember those, requiring facts as a prerequisite to this kind of political cooperation, she's setting a tone. she's negotiating proposition of strengths. everyone could see, she welcomed one republican committee from the pick. the reason they are not part of this tonight, this matters because you may hear about this in weeks and months ahead. not anyone else or the speaker. pelosi is clear about her line. elections have consequences. when investigating, an insurrection to overthrow our democracy that killed people,
propgandists, need not to lie. cornell belcher. welcome. >> thank you for having me. your thoughts on what the speaker achieved here and the wider approach to bipartisanship where she's doing some of it with the floor with her requirements. >> speaker pelosi is the right leader for this time. i know there is been a lot of back and forth from conversations about sort of the leadership and democratic side. i can't imagine a better leader to take on the challenges that are before congress right now than speaker pelosi, thank god she's there. this was a power movement, this was a smart move. republicans were trying to - you know this, ari, if you can't win the argument, politics
one-on-one muddle the water. that's what jim jordan there to do to make this a big circus. it is horrible for them to do that now that jim jordan is not on it and mccarthy pulling all the cards back. what they're trying to do is to say it is a partisan witch hunt which is classic talking point for them. she's already framed the debate by saying it is bipartisan and actually putting a prominent republican on the panel. i think to a certain mccarthy overplayed her hands here, she's going to have a serious committee looking into this manner and not a clown show that republicans play politics with. this is bipartisan, we do have republicans on this committee and i want more republicans on
this committee but mccarthy pulled them out. it is a win-win for her. the doj will only look at the facts of his case and conduct on that day as they should. whether wide reform needed here is what this committee needed. i want to read from the powerful rules and chairman committee from the white house. >> speaker pelosi made the right decision today. this is about patriotism and upholding our oath of office. a rhetorical gut-punch and the
politics is maybe he gets a day or two of look how much they hate me and both sides can play some of that game. when the hearings are next week and continues. mr. jordan won't have a mic that day, he could go outside the hearing room and make noise. it is pretty striking that mccarthy played a 24-hour press strategy here for something that's going to go on for months. >> what's problematic for mccarthy is without those republicans there to try to maneuver and block the investigation, those are awfully a lot of smoke for it not to be any fire coming from the republican caucus on this. >> as you dig deep enough in here, you know how many of them were complacent and how many of them were having conversations. how many of them have flip-flop on this. i think you are going to have a real problem when this starts to
unfold and you see that quite frankly, you know, not just marjorie taylor greene was a problem here in the republican caucus but a lot of people in the acting as patriots but republican loyalists. that's going to be a problem for the republican house caucus. >> you mentioned -- they want the smoke but they're not ready for fire and the two do run together sometimes. someone who has handled all the smoke, liz cheney proven herself to be factually consistent on this insurrection. let's take a brief listen to congressman cheney who's on the committee. >> the american people deserve to know what happened, the people who did this must be held accountable. there must be an investigation
that is non-partisan and sober and gets to the fact where ever they lead and every opportunity, the minority leader had attempted to prevent the american people from understanding what happened to block this investigation. the idea that anybody would be playing politics with an attack on the united states capitol is despicable and disgraceful. >> cornell i know you don't speak for the former president, president obama speaks for himself. i am curious of what he may think of this. there would be honest republicans and that crowd may be shrinking according to many critics. she clearly seen on board with finding the facts. >> well, i think there is some hope that there are few. the problem is, it is shrinking.
the good old days of bush/cheney. the good old days of the grand old party. not the trump party where you understood where republicans stand and i think unfortunately liz cheney is now an outlier in the republican party. she's been strip to power in her own caucus. it is a little hope but hope is dimming. >> when president obama's master strategist says hope is dimming and hope is your brand. we do need sober truth here and there are real reasons why and i know you said that, cornell, you are our exclusive one-on-one guest on this big development, thank you for being here
tonight. >> thank you for having me, brother. >> appreciate it. coming up, we have as promised, a live interview with dr. fauci talking about the break through phases. dr. fauci, he's joining me after the break, i do have to say his name is popping up in all sorts of places including discussion with sharon stones. >> we are so lucky to have fauci. he's a great historian, we should trust him and believe in him. historian, we should trust him and believe in him. (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do. we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility. (naj) one that we don't take lightly. it's why our fees are structured
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turning now to a special guest, dr. anthony fauci, director of the national infectious disease, thank you for being here, doctor. the context is clear, covid cases are up in 150 states. 15,000 new cases reported and 62,000 cases yesterday. 16,000 hospitalizations recorded and now 25,000. doctor, we can get into many things in details but simply put so people understand why covid is going up now. is president biden correct to
say this is now the pidemic of the unvaccinated. >> the numbers are going up for the reason we are dealing with the delta variant. it has a great capability and effectiveness and efficiency in going from person to person. it is transmissibility. it is quite competent if you want to use that word. unfortunately for us. when you are dealing with this situation where you have half the country is not vaccinated. if you look at the total population of the country, you have a lot of vulnerable people for getting infected. we are seeing and you got to look at the data which is true. we are seeing more of breakthrough infections, namely people who are vaccinated but do get infected. the good news about that is the overwhelming majority of those people don't go onto get advance disease.
they generally are asymptomatic or having mild disease. the people who are getting in trouble, namely getting infected and a serious outcome of infection are the unvaccinated. so when the president says, this is a situation of an outbreak of a pandemic of the unvaccinated, that's what he does mean. even some vaccinated people do get infected and they generally do well. it is the unvaccinated who really gets into trouble. the numbers are striking. >> to be clear, doctor, you are saying you agree of what he's saying. >> it is accurate but it gets a little complicated. people who are vaccinated, some of them right now because of the exquisite capability virus spreading from human to human that no vaccine is 100%
effective. even if you get people who are vaccinated, some of them will get infected. overall the people who are going to get into trouble, those are generally the unvaccinated people and the one statistic that's critical is if you look at the deaths due to covid-19 in the united states, 99.9% of them are among unvaccinated people and 0.5% are vaccinated people. that's a very striking telling statistic. >> that's a big picture. you and others emphasized that vaccination is a huge improvement even for people who may ultimately get vaccinated or covid. i want to ask you in south carolina of younger people
getting covid right now. last year most patients are older and now a 26-year-old is on life support getting a plasma exchange. what is the current risk to younger people as you know. some younger people say, well, it does not appear to them of an urgent thing because they don't think they'll get that sick if they get contracted. >> they are tragically incorrect. you can understand why they may feel that way because when you do the statistic, statistically it is much more likely for an elderly person or person with an underlying condition to get seriously ill or infected. it is much more likely for an elderly and a young person. what we are seeing right now, the two reasons, due to the capability of this vaccine spreading person to person, more
younger people are getting infected. the younger people are the group that are more likely to be not vaccinated. that's the reason why you are seeing what you are showing on the screen which are true. we are seeing young people of a small minority of people who get seriously ill. now, relatively speaking, they're a greater proportion, only because many of the elderly people received one vaccine so the elderly are more protected than the younger individuals. the younger individuals are vulnerable and they are generally healthy and generally don't get into trouble. they do sometimes as you have shown correctly on the piece that you have shown. they can get seriously ill. that's the reason why and essentially we are pleading with young people, don't think you're in vulnerable.
you are dealing a formidable virus. this delta variant has a great capability spreading from person to person. if this were eight months ago where we didn't have the delta variant, now is 83% of the infections in this country are from the delta variant. some regions of the country is over 90%. rather than dealing with a much less formidable virus, most of the time you are being confront with the delta variant which puts you at considerable risk. >> i hope people are listening and it is important distinction you are drawing. people are thinking of covid from six months ago,you are telling people scientifically of the current risk of delta variant. as for the public health's messaging and communication challenge, we all understand why people like you and leaders in the government want to stress the benefits of system of this. on the other hand, there is
still a duty to be accurate and some folks at the white house have been accused of down playing these so-called breakthrough cases. here is secretary jen psaki. >> there will be break through cases. >> another reminder of the efficacy of the vaccine. we wish our colleagues a speedty recovery. >> are you at all concerned of the potential down playing of break through cases, doc? >> i listened carefully to what jen said. i think she's saying getting break through cases, you got to admit it. they were likely higher than they were prior to the delta variant. she didn't deny it at all. she also said for the most part,
when you do get a break from a case, you can get severe disease. there are shots showing the breakthrough cases going up but hospitalizations are not going up nearly the same rate as the cases going up. we are seeing this discrepancy between the number of cases that are going up but the hospitalizations are not going up as much which means that at least thankfully we are getting better protection and good protection against severe disease. not completely protection. anybody that says complete is not being honest. you still have going to get people who are going to get seriously ill but relatively speaking, the protection against the disease is pretty good. >> okay, understood there. interesting fact-checking the government officials which is apart of your job however diplomatically you do it. we heard you do over the past four years in different
circumstances. now, i got to say, i think i saw some of your brooklyn come out in the big hearing yesterday. let's take a look at your exchange with senator paul. >> senator paul, i have never lied before congress. senator paul, you do not know what you are talking about and i want to say it officially. you are implying that what we did was responsible for the deaths of individuals, i totally resent that. >> it could have. >> anybody is lying here, senator, it is you. >> the doctor speaks under oath. i have to fit in our shortest break, stay with us, i want to get your views on all that. dr. fauci live on "the beat" right after this. "the beat" right after this and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild.
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we saw your clash with senator paul. for those of us covered you and listened to you, a major contrast to most of your public speaking. what was so important or concern you about that? do you think people listened to what dr. rand paul or what tucker carlson was saying and act on it, they may be increasing their risk of getting covid or getting hurt. >> my response, i don't take great pleasure in clashing with the senate. he was completely out of line. he totally distorted reality. he made some slanderous remarks about lying under oath which is nonsense. some of the things he said was so distorted and out of tune with real, i had to call him on that. i didn't enjoy it but i had to do that. he was completely out of line. totally inappropriate.
>> interesting, these are serious issues people are working on. i want to get to a bunch of things with you. i want to jump to different vaccines. you have said historically the best vaccines you can get is any vaccine you can get. there is a study about j&j, it is not technically peer reviewed. this is the information we are getting. the j&j vaccine is less effective against delta. 13 million people who have gotten it may need a booster. j&j says they do offer strong protection. is your answer the same or would you update or steer away from j&j? >> ari, these things get complicated. let me try to unpact it briefly for you. the article that you showed from the new york times which
reported on a study from new york that was looking at the invitro data, they were not looking at clinical data. what they were saying if you look at the level of a particular laboratory test and anybody, it is lower than other vaccines. therefore, assuming that it may actually be less effective clinically. what we don't have is the actual clinical data that match one against the other. so, j&j -- >> can i jump in, doctor? >> yes, just to be really clear, are you basically saying that this type of study was more lab-based and not about actual people getting sick? >> that's actually the total -- you actually hit the nail on the head. that's exactly correct. what we need to do is wait for the clinical data and the
clinical data are going to be important. if the clinical data reflects the laboratory data then you have to reevaluate that. what it very well may be and j&j claims and very well may be true that their immune response that they induce are beyond what is measured by antibody. there are other things that are being measured. i am not saying at all that the new york study is incorrect. from a laboratory standpoint is a correct study. is what reflective of what's going on clinically. we don't have the data to be able to say that. so i have to keep an open mind about that. >> i want to underscore that people are making the decision out there and what you are saying is, is it true they are
finding the measurement. until we have real people and we are looking at the people impact we don't know and that may be helpful for people listening to you now or when ever people get to it with dr. fauci telling us the different vaccine options. i want to ask you about vaccine mandates. we have seen some universities and companies start to go towards requiring people to get vaccinated and notwithstanding how vital it is. is it possible that we can get much higher vaccine rates that would keep everyone safe and provide, liberty for people of person or religious reasons to not have this on their bodies. where do you come down on that? >> we got universities and other places that is say no, you got to be vaccinated.
>> i can't see that is in the cards. but, what you will see is they're going to be local mandates. colleges and the universities and some places of unemployment. >> is that is overkill. >> i don't think it is overkill. you need to take it case by case. one of the things people should realize is the idea of mandating a vaccine is not something new. that's done all the time. how about schools? we have been doing this for decades and decades. >> may i press you doctor? >> i am not saying i think this. part of my job what people objected is saying as you know those other mandates have much longer periods of time and they say it feels unfair for them to demand them to try something so new.
>> again, you can have arguments all the time. i am not sure if that arguments hold water. we have a virus, ari, that killed 600,000 americans since the beginning of this outbreak. this is the most devastating infectious disease from a respiratory virus that we had in 102 years. times changed. sometimes you have to say and liberty aside and i am not an anti libertarian person. we have an outbreak ongoing for a year and a half. it has killed more americans than any infectious decide in a long period of time. sometimes you got to do -- >> well, doctor -- when you put it like that the answer sounds a lot better than the question. before i let you go, the last thing is the easiest thing on
this one. the biden administration and you have worked with a lot of different folks to try to get the word out on anyone and learn all sorts of new way. i want to take a quick look of a question on the other side of how you have been doing it. here we go. >> if olivia rodrigo tells you to get vaccinated, you get vaccinated. >> here is one, i got my first dose of the fauci-ouchi. >> dr. fauci. >> hey steph. >> thank you for always giving us straight. i know you have saved countless lives. >> let's keep the woos to the minimums please. as you know the woos spread droplets. >> you are in the pop culture whether you like it or not. of all the artists and athletes you have teamed up with, who has been your favorite? >> i am not going to give you an
answer to that, ari, i don't want to offend anybody. >> very political. i mean some of them, -- >> so not stephen curry, so stephen curry is not your favorite? >> i have a special thing with stephen curry because anybody who ever play with basketball in their life and i played high school basketball wished that there were 1,000 as good as stephen curry. >> dr. anthony fauci, thank you for coming back on "the beat," i hope you return and i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you very much for having me. i appreciate that. >> absolutely doctor. there is questions about what trump knew about the top ally over the four lobbying charges and later slashing taxes for billionaires under trump, now mitch mcconnell is caught with hypocrisy. we have a fact-check. caught with hypocrisy we have a ctfa-check
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screen from manafort and weisselberg in manhattan where he awaits the trial. we turn to our joyce vance. thanks for being here. what happens next in a case like this? >> this is such an interesting case ari, because the indictment was sealed, the defendant was rested and unsealed which gives you the sense of not a cooperation deal here. we'll see this case moves toward as plea agreement or a trial. i don't expect and we'll see at least based on what we heard so far there is cooperation in the offering. >> very good point, a reminder of how scary it could be. i want to play a little something from bloomberg tv here. take a look. >> you have deep and long
standing ties to the catarris, are they behind you on this effort? >> yes. the region is so complicated. >> mr. barrack may not be a household name but test a wall street household name. that's the bloomberg interview. what do you make of the fact that the indictment includes his activities. >> in many ways his indictment is so compelling, i can't remember another case like this where you essentially have a victim. the president of the united states and mark lesco, the acting head after national security division made that point. this was as defendant who in essence was taken advantage of the president. who was victimizing the country by trying to subvert or foreign
policy and replaced the policy of the emirates. things that were important for their goals and their needs with what was in the best interests of the united states. >> that's the last thing of what i want to ask, joyce. there is much discussions of the way donald trump operated of the problems that associated with that. that does not mean all the narrative is true. there was no suggestion that the shecanary was coming from this white house, rather that trump was a puppet and they got duped and mr. barrack had every reason to hide this from everyone. >> this was a picture of the former president who's not happy of seeing. you used the word dupe. this indictment suggesting the former president was duped in
what was mr. barrack's best interests and not his own. there is dementia that set up a meeting -- there is some speculation on twitter and other social media that u.s. person one, bannon, who just left the trump administration at that point in time so he'll qualify as a former u.s. official which is what the indictment specifies. that raises the spectrum whether people were around trump who were taking advantage of him and whether if that's what the indictment is about. we are suspicious minded and there is concerns of the former administration which seemed to be paid to play and a lot of cases and a lot of drifting that was going on. ultimately that's the question. people will search the answer for it. did the former president know or was he a dupe in this case. >> yeah, all great point, some
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we have been covering covid and corruption, there is a big fight in washington as president biden pushes his agenda on jobs and infrastructure with republicans push back on spending and debt. here we turn on "the beat," mat leads cpac conferences. thanks for coming back on "the beat." >> great to be with you, ari. >> great to have you. let's start with the job spending and money issues. you have republicans now talking about threatening to oppose raising the debt ceiling, something that we did not hear about for four years as the debt went up under donald trump.
i think the facts are known. my question to you as the leader and strategist that you are is does doing this kind of thing this hypocritically immediately, as biden tries to put out bipartisan plans, does that hypocrisy hurt republicans? because we don't recall the debt ceiling coming up in the last four years. >> look, i think that you're going to criticize the republican party for spending too much money, especially d.c. republicans, i'd probably agree with you, ari. i just think that the new socialist bent, the democratic party wants to spend even more. i have no problem with conversations about not raising the debt limit because there seems to be no brake that can be applied on this out of control spending. economics just comes down to facts, and it comes down to math. the problem with juicing the economy to this extent is it's going to hurt ordinary people as they go buy commodities in their daily lives. food, gasoline, the things that it takes to live. >> i thought you might mention
socialism, matt. we're hearing that more and more. we've had many colloquies on this program rooted in evidence and facts, even when there's disagreements, that's important, and i want to make sure viewers hear different perspectives. as for socialism, what does it mean to you when you say that word? because what joe biden is proposing, while it has a big price tag, does not fit the definition of socialism, which we're putting on the screen. that would involve the government owning the means and distribution of production. >> so of course people think of socialism as an economic model and certainly it is. and as you know, there's gradations of how much collectivism and statism there is. always argue for less. others, especially this new radicalized democratic party, will argue for more. but the core socialism is the rights of the individual, and that comes down to these questions about whether or not a
family wants to have their kids vaccinated or not have their kids vaccinated. these basic questions. socialism would say, no, we have a collective that we have to mind first, your individual rights come after what's good for the collective. those of us who believe in the constitution individual rights say they are what are paramount. i get to control my life because god made into my soul my rights. together we make those decisions as individuals and collectively, collectively, everyone benefits when individuals understand and exercise their rights. >> ike -- i mean you're talking about the long-standing debate about the government's role and liberty and i posed the question to dr. fauci earlier about whether to mandate vaccinations so i understand the point you're raising. why not be more accurate with your words? because you're kind of sounding more like a beatnik or a poet saying when you say socialism, you don't mean an economic system, you mean health care
rules. but that's not what socialism means, which is why i'll put it up briefly on the screen because we love evidence here. socialism is about an economic system. the definition has been established for many decades. it seems more like you're just saying that you want to call biden a low key socialist, irrespective of what the word means. >> let's be very clear that when karl marx and if you want to call it marxism, i'm fine with that. these are just synonyms that mean virtually the same thing. when he wrote about this toxic philosophy of socialism, it was aimed at several things. he had grave problems with the concept of the family unit. he had real hostility towards churches and institutions of faith. so yes, it's terrible economics. by the way, everywhere socialism has been tried, including -- >> but respectfully, karl marx -- >> let me just try real fast. >> karl marx isn't president.
my question is what you were saying about biden. >> karl marx isn't president, but his philosophy has taken root in a democratic party. where socialism has been experimented with, it has harmed people. nobody has gotten healthier or richer. we can see this in cuba, in china. >> only because i'm short on time. i've got 30 seconds. i'm reading you a quote from mitch mcconnell this week. we need shots in everybody's arm or we're going to be back in a situation like the fall. is mcconnell right or wrong to say that? >> he's completely wrong. what we need to do when it comes to battling this terrible chinese corona is make sure that people take command of their own health. the best piece of news which you didn't talk about with fauci which i wish you had are the therapeutics that are available for people who get sick. what we're seeing and the doctors i've talked to is great success with the therapeutics
that are leading people with underlying conditions -- >> i'm over on time. it's not personal. i can't take from the next hour. we covered ground. matt schlapp, thanks for coming on "the beat." we'll have you back. quick break right now. we'll have you back. quick break right now. rer. ♪ ♪ i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, ♪ ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way it's my moment ♪ ♪ so i just gotta say... ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats,
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when you trade in your old ones. and if you're not a customer, we'll help cover the cost to switch. just ask wanda. she's been with us since... (gasps)... now. upgrade your phone. upgrade your network. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l fran leibovitz is on "the beat" tomorrow. take a look.
>> why do you think so many young people are still coming to new york? what's here? >> new york. that's what's here. >> i mean -- >> what's not here? that's the way to look at it. wherever they're from is not here, so they come here. >> what's not here. fran lebowitz, my special guest. her maiden voyage on "the beat" tomorrow. we appreciate you. "the reidout" is next. jonathan capehart filling in for joy. >> hey, ari, thank you very much. we begin "the reidout" with the proverbial game of chicken that house minority leader kevin mccarthy just lost to speaker nancy pelosi. in a bold but necessity move, pelosi today rejected two of the five republicans that mccarthy proposed for the select committee investigating january 6th. using her authority under the organizing resolution, pelosi vetoed congressman jim banks and