tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 21, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT
at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. goodnight. >> tonight's on all in. >> i'm here because donald trump is one of my closest friends for 40 years. >> another one of trump's advisers arrested, accused of illegally lobbying trump four years as a secret agent for the uae. >> the uae is big stuff, the uae is very powerful, very strong. >> tonight, the wild charges against the ex president integral chairman, and the rampant pattern of illegality on teen trump. then -- >> if the vaccine is so great wouldn't it sell itself? >> 99 of the people who are dieting from covid are vaccinated. >> that is their choice. >> how the anti-vax -- through social media and right wing repetition. plus, with the death of bismarck-y says about structural racism in america
and why is the speaker of the house considering letting this guy investigate an insurrection. >> we know what this is about, this is impeachment round three for the democrats, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, there is big breaking news about another close trump associate arrested and charged with crimes of corruption, his name is tom barrack, he's a billionaire businessman he is accused of illegally lobbying donald trump on behalf of the united arab emirates. prosecutors in new york unsealed a huge seven count, 46 page indictment, we're gonna go through it, we have a reporter who is reporting on this. but this is a very important development, for a bunch of reasons. when we last we're here, last night, we were talking about the fate of the rule of law, and particularly in the period
where the justice department changed hands from william barr's, and then the final days of the trump administration, which jeff rosen to merrick garland. last night we were critical of the fact that justice department has, according to reporting, declined to prosecute trump secretary of commerce. that was according to reporting from both the associated press and government executive. that decision, not to prosecute, came after the commerce department own specter general found that he had lied to congress about a citizenship question that he wanted to add to the 2020 census. we have an important update to that story, the 18 government executive have both issued corrections, clarifying that in fact it was the trump justice department that made the decision not to prosecute ross, not the biden administration, which is of course a very big difference, because it is right in line with the things that we were talking about generally last night about the rule of
law in the trump era, and what is to be done about the criminal enterprise that was the trump administration, because keep in mind, this isn't an sounding fact but it is true, wilbur ross is the fifth member of donald trump's cabinet who is referred to justice department prosecutors, the fifth and in all cases, all five, the doj decided not to prosecute. the first was former secretary of the interior, including -- and being involved in the land deal of his state of montana, he infamously gave sex trafficker jeffrey einstein a plea deal when he was u.s. attorney in florida, knows robert wilkie, remember him? remember how he questioned the credibility of the veterans who reported being sexually assaulted at a va hospital. and then who could forget elaine chao, miss mcconnell's spouse, and the former transportation secretary or legibly directed staff to do personal work for her and her father, the trump department of
justice declined to prosecute all of those people, which brings us to today's news, astonishingly, yet another highlight full trump associate, a key figure of the campaign was charged with serious crimes. as i mentioned, his name is thomas barrack, you may remember him from his utterly cringe worthy, bad writing toast speech at the 2016 republican national convention when he was a major fund-raiser for the trump campaign. he helped convince donald trump to hire his old friend a chap by the name of paul manafort as campaign manager, and after trump won the election he became chair of the inaugural committee, because that committee was later investigated and charged with misusing funds to enrich trump's family business. barrack was also a frequent -- going on tv to praise his brilliance. >> the man is brilliant, what he did last night, the foreign come maybe had no idea.
i can tell you for sure, last night the cables were flying, this president elect is so much better, so much more thoughtful, so much more culturally adapt than anybody thought. >> [laughs] -- i'm sorry, i don't actually see the cricket script. that was two days before the inauguration. tom barrack's background is not actually in politics it is in private equity, and real estate investment around the world. he has extensive business and personal links to the middle east. today, he was arrested on federal charges, a seven count indictment accusing him of acting as an unregistered agent of the united arab emirates. they say that he inserted language in a draft speech that parades and emerati official and promoted the uae in the foreign policy interest during media appearances after
soliciting -- they acted in the uae in the dealings with the executive branch of the u.s. government, agreeing to advocate for the appointment of individuals favored by the uae in the new administration. these charges are a result of a three year investigation by federal prosecutors, the fbi, they're especially notable because they appear to be an example of the department of justice doing the right thing which is going where the facts lead them and bring a case against a very high profile person. just as we were advocating for last night. it's amazing to take a step back and marvel at the growing rap sheet of trump's team. in addition to tom barrack there is his friend paul manafort convicted of tax and bank fraud and pardoned by trump, former chief strategist who was arrested on the yacht of a chinese billionaire, accused of swindling trump supporter and never ought to
stand trial because he was also pardoned. there was water stone, convicted by adjured of his pure for lying to congress and then pardon. michael cohen who pleaded guilty to charges of tax fraud, there's michael flynn, trump's first national security adviser who pleaded guilty to lying to investigators and was also pardoned by trump. rick gates, former trump campaign deputy chairman and inaugural official who pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy and making false statements. there is of course donald trump himself, whose business is now facing tax evasion who were brought by the district attorney. truly a remarkable situation when you add it all up, rebecca davis o'brien is a reporter where she covers white-collar law enforcement and she joins me now. rebecca, first talk about what is alleged in this indictment? what laws did barrack violate? >> thanks for having me.
federal prosecution in brooklyn accused him of working -- i guess they're two main groups of charges. the first that he worked alongside former employees and an emerati businessman to violate law requiring agents to register for the attorney general. acting as a conduit for promoting emerati, political wishes to the trump campaign and then to the administration. secondly, mr. berke himself faces five additional charges, they are broadly considered obstruction charges, and then four counts of lying to the fbi in a june 2019 interview with them about his dealings with the emerati's. >> so there is fascinating things in the indictment and these are allegations, there
brought with the government. they appear to show a tight coordination between barragan the emerati's, even out who is going to be appointed as the u.s. ambassador. and even floating the idea that you will be the ambassador, and that will be great for us. here's something that i couldn't quite get, what is the motive here is it just that he has so much business investment in that region coming in from the uae, and the saudis that this is his way of greasing the wheels for that business? >> well there are certainly a lot of unanswered questions and i can protect you know the answers, what does strike me is that there is a suggestion of money changing hands. he has a lot of money himself, he's a successful businessman. i was struck by two things, one is the depth and extend of the correspondence between these three men, and they allegedly edited op-eds, speeches and policy platforms, but also what
you say, it's not quite clear what's he stood to gain from this yet, and i'm sure the prosecutors would lay that as we go forward. but with a lot of these investigations, into the trump administration and allegations of foreign interference, there is an undertone of power and access to power, and i think that is alleged to be broadly speaking a motivating factor. >> during the cold war they were saying that spies would be turned for money or for any logical reasons, there are people that had an ideological predilection towards the soviet union. i'm reading through the indictment, like is he a real uae lover, i've never encountered a person -- man i really want to see the united arab emirates interests are represented in the u.s. government.
it's never spelled out, but i think we will learn a lot more. what is his status right now? he was denied bail, is that correct? he was in custody? >> he's in custody right now there was a hearing that he was arrested in california where he lives, and this afternoon a judge in federal court in california ordered him to be detained, pending a hearing next monday. then he will make his way to new york, brooklyn federal court to enter a plea and the next steps of the investigation. >> i should note my understanding is that one of the codefendants fled the country back in 2018 after being questioned by the fbi has never been seen since, is that right? >> i'm sure somebody has seen him, but the federal prosecutions is considered at large. >> someone has seen him. >> rebecca davis o'brien who has been reporting on the story, thank you so much for joining
us tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> matt miller's former chief's -- under attorney general eric holder, paul butler is a former prosecutor in the doj's public integrity section. now professor at georgetown university of laws center, they both join me now. matt, last time we were talking about the sort of -- the decisions that need to be made by the department of justice and in this case i think this is a frontline eastern district, investigation prosecution but what does it say to you that this has come to fruition? >> well it does say to me that bill barr for all of his flaws, i think there are many, we saw him intervene a number of times by cases brought up by prosecutors to stop them from overturning the recommendations. there were some cases, maybe they were just so strong, he didn't intervene and are wasn't able to intervene in, and made the choice that there were righteous cases, this case if,
you look at the evidence in this indictment, the evidence is pretty strong, and i don't have the attorney general didn't stop it because it would've been too politically costly for him to do, so you would have resignations at he had other things that he intervened ten. but i think it is somewhat interesting, for all of the flaws of bill barr, the justice department did under his watch produce outcomes that they didn't love and paul, there's public integrity, you are in the public integrity unit, i think you may mean justice in which there's field -- u.s. attorney offices and then maine justice. how a case like this go through those offices where i imagine there's a lot of very close eyes if you're going to do something like this? >> yes, and the question bills to motive because all you had
to do was register and then everything he did would've been legal. you literally just go online, you fill out some forms, and pay $305. his registration requirement is about national security and transparency. if you're talking to the u.s. government on behalf of another country, you have to disclose it. it's a law that's been around since the 1930s, there have been 50 criminal prosecutions, including paul manafort who pled guilty to violating this law. one of the interesting things about this indictment is that it actually presents president trump as a victim and says that he was one of the people who was betrayed by what his friends of allegiance to a foreign government. well >> and you mention, foreign, of course, the ideas if at someone is advocating
interest of a foreign government and has to be transparent, it has to be a matter of public record, people know but the angle is of that individual. and yet we have seen enforcement of that has been lax for a lot of time. and that lacks of enforcement has reached this crescendo in the trump era. although this is called all over the white house, using all sorts of back channels, all over the place, to try to get to this president who is a very easy man to get to in some ways compared to the more institutionalized bureaucracy of a normal president. >> you're right the law was partly in force for decades. if the department of justice found that you violated that, they would send you a letter, they would not indict you. they would allow you to cure the crime which, is not something that they would allow you to do in most cases. but i suspect that the justice department was looking at all of the activity in the white house and saw that, look, there's something very nefarious going on here in all
sorts of circumstances. obviously the russian investigation took up a lot of attention, but one of the things about the russia investigation is it captured so much attention and i think that there are some other ugly scandals. this is one of. them remember, there are other people involved in the uae a lobby, he ended up -- although he was involved in the uae scheme. george nader who went to jail for chore child pornography and human trafficking. so the human justice department said that they had to find a way to police doesn't but they decided to do was to in the sense dust off a law that had not been used and used it aggressively. and this is gonna have some ramifications going forward because there is an enforcement your unit, and because of their crimes of the trump era, the roby prosecutions for crimes from all sorts of actors in washington. >> paul, i got my starters reporter in chicago and chicago
is a great place to report on government corruption. and even in the experience i had there was astonishingly corrupt individuals, i don't think i ever covered any administration at any level that had this many people around them arrested, prosecuted, and then convicted, or pardoned, for official corruption. >> it is true. but in defensive my hometown, chicago, the least i can say is that at least when they're corrupt there, at least they get something out of. it here, we don't know what this motive was. the law does not require that you receive some kind of profit, the indictment doesn't say that he got any money from the uae. the new york times reported that the uae had interest in one of barracks businesses, so
maybe this was about carrying favor with the uae. or maybe it was just about a billionaire who thought that he was above the law. >> matt miller and paul butler, thank you so much for joining us tonight. fully coronavirus cases are on the rise all across the country. places with low vaccination rates are getting hit hardest. those states tend to be conservative states, which is the target audience for fox news, and yet every night fox continues to pedal conspiracies and misinformation about the vaccine. what if i told you there was a different story behind the scenes, from fox news is hater. next, the disinformation and vaccine passports coming up after the break. e break. sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden.
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in all 50 states, there are millions and millions of americans illegible for vaccines who have not been vaccinated for a variety of reasons. there are reasons as many as there are people. and i want to make things clear, millions of these folks are not -- it's not because they love donald trump, or fox news, or for politics. it's complicated. that said, it's also clear, and undeniable, that a big part of vaccine resistance in the u.s. is being driven by oppositions, conservative media. take a look at this chart, each of these lines risks represent
states vaccination rate. you see the blue lines on the top, the blue states all getting vaccinated and much higher rate than any state that voted for trump, although you also see those ones flattening as well. it is undeniably the case that one of the main issues we are facing in combatting this disease, 18 months into this, is a kind of radicalization up the american bright against vaccination. but for all the back and forth between the white house and facebook this week on how much responsibility that social network bears for america's failure to have higher vaccination rates, there is one other very obvious source for vaccine disinformation night in, night out that is not facebook. >> the big problem here is what the president is not telling young people. >> may we have breaking news. it turns out the vaccines might not work. if five on the same plane, it had the covid 19 virus. >> this is a pandemic of the
unvaccinated simply untrue, it is a lie. the advice they're giving is not designed to help it is designed to help you comply. and you shouldn't comply mindless flee. >> every one of those were from fox news last night. and to the extent that there are truth claims there are not true. i mean, there are people who are unvaccinated that are vaccinated who have gotten breakthrough crazed cases, but by and large, it is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. fox undermined vaccination efforts in nearly 60% in all of its vaccination segments. and it is almost always done in the most cowardly way imaginable. you saw it in those clips there, right? it's not, don't get vaccinated, it's where asking questions, we don't take position, we don't take medical advice for people on tv. they're trying to make you complacent should not comply. it's like anti-pro-vaccines. and all the while doing everything possible to stoke fears about the vaccine and at
the same way that they tried to stoke fears about anything that has to do with covid, whether that social distancing, closing of nightclubs, whether it's masking indoors. because predominantly, the perspective of that network, from the beginning of the pandemic is who cares if all those people die? there are old, poor, sick anyway. we know one person who does care about one old people dying is rupert murdoch who is himself old and one of the first people in the world to get the vaccine. while his network is making tons of money and rating perfectly well, pumping the kind of nonsense we just played. but that won't affect the actual policy makers and people at fox were forced into the same conundrum as all of us are. how do institutions keep people safe in a world where there's a delta variant that is very
transmissible and as a free vaccine available. what to do? but one thing is to make sure people are vaccinated. that is precisely the kind of policy that fox news has been rallying against. the idea of a heavy hand from above telling you what to do, vaccine passports. you might suppress be pretty surprised to learn that this is what the fox bosses are doing with the people in their building, because they understand the implication the implications of this. the intercepts ryan grim reports fox news workers have their own corporate vaccine passport, sharing guidance from the company, fully vaccinated individuals who have entered their vaccination information will be provided a fox clear pass. that's a smart idea. unvaccinated employees must continue to comply with all foxes covid-19 prevention guidelines. that also makes sense, different categories, let's distinguish between folks who are vaccinated and not vaccinated and what they can do and what they have to do, wood hoops they have to jump through. sensible. sensible. the silva solutions that
strongly encouraging vaccinations could be an interesting path for it, maybe we should block book fee hr fox here. we are looking for one of the most obvious places to start, it might be the most influential mouthpiece to stop act to actively undermining their viewers. the we are good next guess is what -- the other day she had a great way -- spreaders at the moment, and she joins me now. rene, thanks for joining us, i like what you had to say there it syncs up with this intuition i had about the relative rules of social networks and these big mega phones in the case of fox. what is your research suggest about how these messages of vaccines skepticism or where
the are originating? >> it's really difficult to differentiate between media and social media at this point and that's because almost every major media property has a social media component as. well your audience go on social media, clubs are put on social media. and when you start to see is we're kind of perpetuating this idea that the two ecosystems are wholly different. that's not exactly right, what is different is who was on them. so with different social media as people communicating with their friends or people who don't have a mainstream platform, because they're not anchors on major platforms, create their own content and put it out there. that's a value of social media. there are these kind of from the bottom up or grassroots messaging that tend to come out. there are a lot of true fact anti vaccine activists on social media but the reaches much smaller, their audience a smaller as well. they're not so much in either
or in understanding how the two work together. >> what are the sort of maine we i keep coming back to this question i, are we dealing with a platform problem was. i wonder what your answer to that is. >> my answer is that social media reflects wow society as well as shaping it which is a circular argument you won't want to hear, but i think that's where we are. the tools that were all given as individuals to create and shape messages, we use those tools to share the kinds of things that resonate with us, and interned we see things that our friends are sharing, we incorporate their opinions, their content and we go on to share it. it's not so much that we are only taking inputs from social
media and we're all blank slates receiving these messages, we intern are also putting our own content out there. it's really both. >> i guess finally the question is are there things that you've encountered in your research about how to deal with the reality and the spread of stuff that is just wrong, that is frankly wrong about vaccines? >> yeah, i think that's where we start to get questions of what should be intervention be? there are a lot of complicated questions that go along with that. a lot of the earliest platform interventions regarding vaccine misinformation for not related to covid, covid is new, we all saw in realtime signs develop an understanding of how it moves, how it was trans committed, what the vaccines were going to be able to do, qualifications the vaccines were going to be. the early crackdowns against vaccine misinformation or actually against misinformation spread about very routine, long established, deeply successful
vaccination interventions like the measles vaccine. what we have now, we have to contend with now is an environment in which more people than ever paying attention to these questions, because the covid vaccine really directly impacts all of us. our friends, our communities and our loved ones in a way that school vaccines maybe didn't. the platforms are faced with a much higher volume of content to try to understand how to create limits, how to prevent wrong information from spreading when it is not entirely clear what is wrong are right. that is a pretty significant challenge. what we're starting to see is moderation doesn't have to be a binary. it doesn't have to be up or down. you can also do things like introduced friction into sharing, you can put up labels to try to help people get better information. you can surface higher caliber, more reputable sources. those are the areas that the platforms are exploring. >> renee diresta, thank you so
much for sharing your expertise with us, we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> next up from vaccine hesitant to getting his first shot of the vaccine, what it means the number two republican to take the plunge? and what they are doing to fight the virus in their state. after this. after this are you one of the millions of americans who experience occasional bloating, gas or abdominal discomfort? taking align every day can help. align contains a quality probiotic developed by gastroenterologists. it adds more good bacteria to your gut to naturally help soothe your occasional bloating, gas and abdominal discomfort. support your digestive health with align,
conceptually that have been conservative politics, like liking cuts to the capital tax, or help law abortions, should tightly correlate with not wanting to get vaccinated against a deadly respiratory virus. but, there has been that kind of correlation in the world, not just in the u.s. but across the world, we can talk about it a little bit more at some point. it is a big deal when prominent members of the american right conservatives, come out and say hey, i got vaccinated, you should too. steve ghoulies which is the number two member of the house republican caucus from mariana,
he had not gotten vaccinated despite having that awful tragedy where he was shot and spent a long time in the hospital, and recovered from that, thank goodness. there he is steve scalise saying that he was getting vaccinated, here is what he had to say about why. he said especially with the delta variant becoming more aggressive, and seeing another spike it was a good time to do it. we talk to people who run hospitals in you orleans, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated, that is another signal vaccines work. it is great to see steve gullies doing that, i hope a lot more people follow. he's not the only one, we should be clear, there thunder republicans across the country carrying this message, missouri republican, state senator from missouri lincoln have, is one of those individuals who has gotten vaccinated and who has been advocating for the vaccine in his portion of missouri and he joins me now. it's great to have you on senator. tell me a little bit about what
things are like in green county, missouri. >> thank you for having me on. we've seen an abnormal spike in the community, that could be related to a lot of things. local tourism. but what we have seen with that is a complication over health care system where we have two major hospitals in our community and both of them, as you just mentioned, i have a number of cases of this new delta variant that are essentially clogging up our health care system. in my state, almost every individual that is eligible for a vaccine lives within five miles of a facility or site where they could have that vice seen administered. >> would you tell me about your vaccination experience, when did you decide, why did you
decide and how did that go? >> i talked with my health care provider. fortunately enough i have two brothers that our doctors, and as soon as it was my turn, and i was eligible to receive the vaccine i actually received it. i was actually in the legislature at the time, i ran over to the boone county health department and they gave me a shot and i got my booster shot, the second dose, later on, four weeks later. >> so, what are you hearing from folks in your community, republicans like yourself, republicans, are you encountering folks that are resistant to vaccines, and what are your conversations like when you talk to them? >> i think there is a lot of misinformation being spread around about the vaccine. i guess the plea that i would
make, not just in my community but across our country and quite frankly across this world, is talk to your trusted health care providers, talk to your family physicians, talk to members of the medical community that you do trust and get their opinion, and if you have hesitancy, go to those providers and asked for their medical opinion on that. i would ask and maybe strongly encourage that we shy way from just looking at social media and things like that, and perpetuating information that maybe is baseless. >> missouri state senator lincoln hough, thank you so much for your message and thank you for coming on our program, we really appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> ahead. why would speaker nancy pelosi allow members who tried to overturn the election to serve on the committee investigating the jenner six attack? the jim jordan problem. coming up. coming up.
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hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage so we don't have to worry about it" conversation. so you're calling about the $9.95 a month plan -from colonial penn? -i am. we put it off long enough. we are getting that $9.95 plan, today. (jonathan) is it time for you to call about the $9.95 plan? i'm jonathan from colonial penn life insurance company. sometimes we just need a reminder not to take today for granted. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance starting at just $9.95 a month.
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matching -- know i only have a friend. come on! this is one witnessing ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ marcell feel hot as markey, was most famous for that his 1989 hit just a friend, which is a forever classic. but he was so much more than that, he was a dj, beat boxer, a bona fide rap legend who wrapped with the bc, bows will smith. he profiled in the washington post magazine and this is incredible thing that he said
about fame, the weirdest thing about my fame is that when i'm thinking it's almost over just sparks backup. they're not letting me die, the public, the fans, they like me around. we will biz markie died of type to wear diabetes. he was 57. will they died within the span of a few weeks 50, 50, to 57 respectively. mf doomed died at the age of 49. now you can say that, musicians die too young all the time, and that's true. the wrap rappers life cycle that is a quick. earlier this year the american medical association noted the country's pervasive health inequities were evidenced by tragic tally of 74,000 excess deaths on average among black people compared with white
people each year between 2016 2018. data is much more stark when you look at just the average life expectancy we have the average white man is 75 years old, the average for a black man is 68 years old. that's a seven year difference. when we talk about structural racism, in critical race theory, that's what we're talking about. it's worth noting that black men get considerably less years on the planet than white man. when you're asked what's racism means, that's what it means. it means a society that takes years off peoples lives the, only thing we have because of 1 million different things built up over 100 years produced a system where black people are more exposed to violence and toxins it, and face more barriers for health treatment, and on, and on, and on.
this is not some obstruction, this is not a question of hurt feelings. it is literally life and death. racism kills. it takes lives too early. every day. would biz markie like so many others in his generation died at a tragically young age. but like others, he had a rich legacy. he was under appreciated until was too late. but biz markie and others deserve more. at its core, that's what's the fight for equality and against racism is all about. we t. we
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key >> speaker nancy pelosi says she's considering allowing five more republicans now led by minority leader kevin mccarthy to lead a camp mission in the one six commission. we even though they essentially voted against for democracy and in favor of the big lie. jim jordan of ohio even got on the floor of the house on january 6th to explicitly questioned president biden's victory. >> president trump it creases with what african americans, increased his vote among latinos -- he got 11 million more votes than he did in 2016, and house refund republicans won -- but somehow, the guy who never left his house wins the election? but >> yeah we won 27 out of 27 races but somehow donald trump
lost, how could that be? is he some numb psychopath that the american people rejected even though they were voting for the republicans? that's the guy, jim jordan, who could end up investigating the insurrection. who made his name famous for haranguing hillary clinton over benghazi. we have a preview of what it will be like on the january 6th select committee. >> tell us about your new assignment on the january 6th commission sir? >> i mean we know what this is about, this is an impeachment round three for the democrats. five years they've been going after president trump so, in some ways you can't blame them because water else are gonna talk about? >> that being said, house speaker nancy pelosi says she's not ruling out vetoing mccarthy 's pick for the select committee. olivia troye south serves as well -- she joins me now.
olivia, two thirds of the republican caucus voted not to seek the electors, to reject the seeding of electors. but that leaves plenty of members who did vote to do the right thing, including even conservatives, like chip roy, who's quite conservative. what do you think of nineties pelosi's position that there should not be one criteria over the vote? >> i think that anybody who voted to not certified the election results should not sit on this committee. i think first up for most it should be a disqualifier. it's really important to respect our democratic process, and the undermining of the democratic process as well led us to january six to begin with. it's but jim jordan's and his rhetoric, and others who led to that fighting moment. and that's exactly what this committee will get at the bottom of an investigate, the defining mission first and foremost. this is the national security investigation. we've seen the videos, we've
seen the footage, we're seeing the reporting coming out on court cases but we still don't have a step-by-step factual account of how this came to be, what led to it, what happened, what were the failures who was involved. that's what this committee is gonna try to gather. but the last person to be sitting on this committee should be jim jordan. >> it seems to me there are two issues here, one is a conflict issue. so let's just talk about this. to your point, how we came to this moment, it is the big lie, and we should say that jordan did the kind of josh hawley, it's very similar to what you see on fox in the vaccine, this trolling, just asking questions, like, how is it possible? and that kind of saying -- hugo chavez was changing at the voting results and the machines -- but that conflict seems unavoidable when you're looking
at the run up of the january 6th, we have to talk about the mythology created by the president about this, that you are party to. >> and that movement is not going away, it remains out there. people still believe this election was fraud id. it leads to all sorts of efforts and endeavors around the country, under the guise of election integrity. in upcoming elections -- this is ongoing. and not only that, these domestic terrorism groups that were in bed with all of these situations that happened that day on january 6th, this is a movement that has missed metastasizing across the country. this is something that we have to get at the bottom of, this is radicalization. and to me, when you look at this investigation from national security perspective, i look at jim jordan and i think about the 9/11 commission. now would you appoint one of osama bin laden's deputy to
serve on the 9/11 commission, would you have done that to get to a fact fighting mission? jim jordan appointed in this committee is basically obscuring, it's doing a cover-up, and into skiers the facts but to get to the bottom of this. it gives him the opportunity to pull off his usual should not against, he'll attack law enforcement, he'll attack everybody, he's already done it on january six hearings. he's going off on cancel culture, he's attacking -- this cannot be allowed to happen. >> and you know this, and i know that is obviously, but the scale and scope of 9/11 is extremely different in terms of the death toll and the like. >> absolutely. >> the lack -- right. i know you know that. i just wanted to make that very clear. but there's also, to me, the issue, is that vote -- to me, that my belief, and i
believe think that this is a belief that should supersede ideological differences, but this is a thought of betrayal that -- corporate america and giving something so deeply aberrant about voting to take away the presidency from the person who won, that that line has to be enforced. and it seems to me that if you're not enforcing it from the speakers position, you don't actually think that it is that kind of line, which you probably, don't but i kind of think it is, and you do too. >> absolutely. i think there are other people to pick out there, why not put adam katzenbach, white not have him serve on the committee, she can say thanks but no thanks, whack adam consider -- >> olivia troye, thank you for joining us this evening. >> thanks for having me. >> that is all in on this tuesday night, the rachel
maddow show starts right now. show starts right now administration. we put up on screen like all together the names or the titles of each new trump administration official who had quit or been fired, and we started off being able to do that on a single screen. but as the number kept growing,a we had to move ultimately to a i large-size wall panel because it wouldn't fit in our normal small screen. then as we kept keeping track of this phenomenon we had to expand it to a couple of wall panels. eventually there were so many of them, so many wash-outs and resignations and people leaving caofo gust and disgrace and under mysterious circumstances we had to expand the list to one entire wall of the big studio, and then it started wrapping around the corner.