tv Alex Witt Reports MSNBC July 17, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PDT
month for each child between 6 and 17 years old. >> we are making history now. we are reducing child poverty in half by doing this child tax credit. and what is even better is that we're making it a monthly payment so that, of course, the first payment went out on thursday so that families can get that money right away to pay for gas, to pay for food, to pay for child care. this is such an incredible step forward in our history. also new today, president biden is reacting to a federal court declaring daca illegal. that ruling came yesterday in texas. nine states sued to end the program that allows children of immigrants, also known as dreamers to remain here in the united states. a judge ordered dhs to stop approving new applications.
president biden says the justice department is now appealing that ruling. meanwhile, the number of border crossings has hit a new 21-year high. border agents say they intercepted more than 188,000 people trying to cross into the u.s. in june. the total number arrested by border patrol since last october is now past 1 million. new reaction to a plot to fire bomb california's democratic party headquarters in sacramento. are prosecutors say the two men charged were, quote, prompted by the outcome of the presidential election and believed their attack would spark a movement. here's the california dnc chair. >> again, thank the fbi for their work, but in this day and age, you know, we should not be concerned about violence and terrorism just for participating in the democratic process. >> law enforcement officers, they seized pipe bombs, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and between 45 and 50 firearms including at least three fully automatic weapons. in just a matter of days, the biggest hearings so far in
the federal investigation of the january 6th insurrection, paul hodgkins will be the first defendant sentenced for a felony involving the breach on capitol hill. this could set the bar for what other punishments rioters may face as they decide whether to face plea deals. scott mcfarland is following that story for us. give us a sense of what that sentence might look like and what would that then tell us? >> yeah, alex, a very big day in federal court in washington monday. it's going to be a big tell of where so many of these cases are going and the possible punishment for the most serious of those charged january 6th. the feds are recommending 18 months in prison for paul hodgkins. they say he came ready to the capitol for the possibility of violence. they say he brought rope, gloves, that he brought military grade gear with him inside the senate chamber that day. what will the judge decide?
will the judge decide that the prosecutors should get exactly what they ask for? 18 months in prison. if so that's a big indicator for other defendants that the feds are getting what they want in these prosecutions. will the judge spare paul hodgkins prison? that will upset a lot of people. there's images of those people in the senate chamber haunting on so many levels. for his part, hodgkins is arguing for leniency. in his sentencing memo ahead of monday's hearing, he drew this big parallel between the civil war saying that grant showed leniency for robert e. lee after the civil war, that the courts should do the same. he faces about a 15 to 17 month guideline, that's the range, and the feds have asked for right in the middle. 18 months. >> so i'm curious, scott, some of these rioters, they're not scheduled to head to court until next year. why is it taking so long? >> there are a few reasons, 2022 is when we see trial dates. honestly, alex, that could bleed into 2023 before too long.
here's why. first of all, the d.c. federal court, which is hosting all of these prosecutions is backlogged. they've got twice as many cases as they're accustomed to having because of the insurrection, and they have a covid backlog they're still trying to clear. there weren't jury trials last year. this ruling in the past 24 hours, a judge has ordered the feds cannot use a private contractor to help share all of this voluminous evidence with defense lawyers, saying there's an issue legally there. so there's a logistical problem. the feds have this mountain of evidence they have to get to defense lawyers, and right now they don't have an efficient way of doing so. >> okay, well, you said it, logistics, that explains it. thank you so much. appreciate that. joining me right now congressman eric swalwell, democrat from california, r member of the house judiciary intelligence and homeland security committees. he's also the author of the book "endgame: inside the impeachments of donald j. trump" two impeachments there, it is plural. very good to sea you.
thank you so much for joining me. as we look at the select committee for the january 6 insurrection, i want to know what you are going to be listening for? what are the central questions that you want answered? >> well, first and foremost, i think we have to honor the police officers who defended the capitol that day and allow them to animate just what was the ground truth because there's been an effort to rewrite that ground truth by donald trump and kevin mccarthy and so many republicans. so really set the scene there. also, no one is off limits as chairman thompson has said. i think that means we will be able to understand not only what did donald trump do in the weeks leading up to the riot, we know in the impeachment trials that he spent $50 million aiming people at washington, d.c., that day but what did he know as the mob was descending on the capitol, and what did he do and not do that could have saved life and saved democracy that day? >> yeah, and i want to talk
about that before i get to some specifics about the actual hearings. you know this new book by "washington post" reporter still rucker and carol lentic said that general mark milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff was worried that after the election then president donald trump would try to use the military to attempt a coup. what is your reaction to that? and should the committee call general milley to testify? >> i'll leave that to chairman thompson. he said no one's off limits. when i read that that was the concern of military brass, my question is why didn't you do enough to stop it? because for the first time in our country's history, we are not able to say that we had a peaceful transition of power. there was an attempted coup. hundreds of the president's supporters made their way into the capitol. i and others left the floor and stopped counting. a capitol police officer was killed. two others would take their own life days later. hundreds were injured. officers lost fingers, one lost
an eye. so maybe they should have done more rather than just talk to reporters after the fact to try and rehabilitate their image. so i don't really have any time for people who are now talking after the fact. we needed leadership and courage and imagination about what the president could do left of boom, not right of boom. >> huh, yeah. house leader kevin mccarthy can appoint five republicans to this committee. we know that he met with donald trump on thursday. any idea who you think he's going to pick? and i'm curious how much influence you think donald trump has in this process, and also why it's taking so long? i mean, the hearing starts in nine days! kevin mccarthy is the leader of the republican party, pu the truth is he's just treading water in donald trump's ocean. and so there's not much leadership there. i will say i think officer mike finone got it right when he met with kevin mccarthy. he bravely defended the capitol
on the 6th. he was tased. he had a heart attack. he suffered traumatic brain injury. he said to mr. mccarthy, please just appoint serious individuals so we can have a serious inquiry. as we wait to see who he puts on that committee, i hope he takes it as serious as it was. >> and the speaker can veto, correct, an appointment? >> yes, thank god. nobody wants marjorie taylor greene on that committee. >> i know you said that chairman thompson can decide who he wants to call. do you think it's possible kevin mccarthy will be called to testify? you said no one's off the table. what about donald trump? i mean, would you even expect donald trump to testify or would he find an excuse to not testify? >> well, we offered donald trump the opportunity to testify during the senate impeachment trial, and we used the fact that he refused to come in against him as an adverse inference, meaning that the fact that he was asked to testify and he turned us down showed that he was culpable, that he had a
consciousness of guilt. i'll leave it to chairman thompson. if he indeed means it that no one's off the table, donald trump is a very relevant witness. kevin mccarthy we know talked to donald trump that day, so two very relevant witnesses that we may hear from. >> what do you make of the actions of kevin mccarthy on the 6th, the reported fury that he showed. that conversation we've heard about between kevin mccarthy and donald trump where there was a lot of fire going in both directions. he called donald trump out, and then, you know, that sort of went by the wayside, right? i mean, what do you make of that? is that something that you think is important and should be resurrected for this committee to look at? >> again, to understand donald trump's frame of mind, absolutely. and i do believe they will seek, you know, to do that. look, kevin mccarthy, you know, has never shown courage. he wants to be speaker of the house, but he doesn't operate from any core set of principles, so after he had run from his life and gone to a secure
location, it's natural that he would have wanted to blame donald trump for putting him in that position. but once he started to think about his career and the fact that the republican party was still with donald trump, he abandoned any courage that he showed, again, to dive right back into donald trump's ocean and tread more water there where he finds himself now. >> yeah, let me ask you about what's happening in california, that pretty frightening report about the two men who were charged in the alleged plot to fire bomb the california dnc headquarters there in sacramento, of course, the capital. ian benjamin rogers and jared copeland were propertied by the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. they believed their attack would spark a movement, according to federal prosecutors who said the men were members of a militia group. you know law enforcement officers seized five pipe bombs. thousands of rounds of ammunition, between 45 and 50 firearms, at least three fully automatic weapons during this january search of rogers' home and business. i'm curious your reaction to that as a california democrat, as a member of the homeland
security committee and as somebody who has tried to do anything he could to try to quell the gun violence in this country by common sense gun rules being stepped up. does this prove the type of violence and danger we saw in january 6th was not a one-time thing? >> we are just as vulnerable today, alex, as we were on january 6th. my fear is there will be more loss of life as long as the following ingredients still exist. you have donald trump and kevin mccarthy advancing the big lie. you have a country where we have unrestricted weaponry, and you have law enforcement that doesn't have the resources yet to attack white supremacist groups in this country, and so if those ingredients still exist, that's a recipe for disaster, not just for our democracy but for public officials. and it's not only at the federal level we're seeing that. it's the governor of michigan who nearly was kidnapped and killed and now it's officials in
california. so we really need, i think, to pass the security assistance that we tried to pass in the house to have that passed in the senate to protect the capitol, but also to have law enforcement at all levels ready to take on the greatest domestic violence threat we have this in country, which is white domestic extremism groups. >> okay. congressman eric swalwell, democrat from california which i guess makes you a homie of mine. thank you so much. it's good to see you. we'll see you again. let's go now to new numbers today in the coronavirus pandemic. the average of new cases this week is up almost 70%, as the delta variant spreads at an alarming rate, covid hospitalizations and death rates are also up. today cases are on the rise in almost every state. health officials warning unvaccinated areas are driving these increases. the head of the cdc calling this a pandemic of the unvaccinated. in los angeles county, an indoor mask mandate returns tonight as health officials are struggling with an alarming rise in covid
cases there. let's go to nbc's gad vin nay gas. let's talk about what people can expect when they're in public places, right? indoors it's masks on. >> reporter: alex, that's correct. it's going to be just like it was before june 15th when masks were required in all indoors settings. it's going to be for the vaccinated and unvaccinated here in los angeles. and you mentioned these numbers, you know, the cdc saying it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated. well, health authorities here in los angeles had the same message focusing on the almost $4 million people that are unvaccinated in l.a. county. they also mentioned that last week they had an 83% rise in cases so they're moving on with this vaccination campaign as they inform the public that everyone is going to have to mask up again. we've been speaking to some of the residents who told us how they felt about this new rule. >> i find it's disappointing. i got my vaccine and all my
friends and the people i work with have gotten theirs. in the film industry in which i work, they got it because of a matter of professional need to do it, and everybody's pulling in the same direction, and i feel that a lot of this is because a lot of people just thought irresponsibly that they didn't have to. >> reporter: you know, health officials here are saying that those unvaccinated are five times more likely to get the virus as they implemented this new rule, and the state of california along with l.a. county will continue with this campaign to try to vaccinate as many as they can offering in some places partnerships with mcdonald's where they offer food, they offer tickets with some sports teams and venues, and they also offer gift cards. anything they can do to try to convince people that are unvaccinated to get the vaccine while this new rule kicks off tonight at midnight, so beginning tomorrow morning sunday, everyone in l.a. county will have to mask when being in
an indoor public setting. alex. >> i've got to tell you, guad, it's really hard to argue with the statement of the gentleman you interviewed. thank you. coming up next, the author of one of a number of new books about president trump and the most disturbing revelations about the chaos ask anarchy inside the white house. this book made some big headlines. i'm going to hit some outrageous aspects you may not have heard about with the author next. ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein.
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new today, more revelations about donald trump's time in office in another stunning book about his turbulent presidency. frankly, we did win this election tells the inside story of how trump lost, his final days in the white house, and how it all culminated in the january 6th insurrection. joining me now, i'm really excited to talk to the author of that book, michael bender, a political reporter at "the wall
street journal" who closely followed trump's campaign and his time as president. donald trump gave you a couple of interviews for the book, and you covered his presidency from the very beginning. he's called you one of the tough ones but such beautiful hair, which, yeah, i agree. anyway, have you heard from him directly or indirectly about the book and its revelations? >> i haven't heard from him directly since our interviews about the book. the only way i heard from him was when he singled me out and singled out this book by attacking it, and i will say i'm glad he didn't go after my hair, disparage my hairdo because then i would know he was really upset. he's attacking this book because he knows how many people i talked to in the process of reporting this and how many people talked to me who don't normally talk to journalists because he and i discussed some of the things i knew in both of our interviews, and that's what he's worried about. >> tell me about the interview process with donald trump. what was that like?
>> well, i've interviewed him in my role as a reporter for "the wall street journal" in trump tower, in air force one, in the oval office over the course of his four years in the white house and two campaigns. and post-presidency i went down twice to mar-a-lago, and he's a bit in transition right now, or at least he was then, but he was, you know, he's golfing a lot. and he's bringing down a lot of authors and a lot of writers as he gets ready to get back onto the rally scene and, you know, start swaying his political power. >> michael, why- why does he cooperate with authors of books? respected journalists. he called you one of the tough ones. he must have anticipated there was going to be criticism of him, right? so what is it about him that says, yeah, i'll just keep talking and then after the book comes out he damns it in any way
he can? >> you know, i think for donald trump he'd rather be part of the headlines than not, even if those headlines might be critical, and you know, one of the things that struck me in the reporting of this book was we all know the story of chaos for years in the trump presidency. you don't have to be a wall street journal reporter working over there every day to know that. but what was striking in the reporting of this book was how many people very close to trump in the white house and at the campaign had become concerned he was dangerous for the country. i mean, alex, he asked his own teammates in the white house to have americans shot. >> right. >> people protesting civil rights abuses to be shot, to have their skulls cracked. his own secretary of state was concerned that he might lean into a foreign conflict in order to hold onto power. so these are the kinds of things that were stunning to me, even after five years of covering trump. and i think part of the reason
trump wants to speak with authors is to include his voice in some of this wherever he can. >> i'm reminded as you say that of trump even standing behind a podium at one of his many, many rallies when he would talk about how these people need to be taught a lesson, and you know, we've got to beat the whatever expletive of the day was going to be used and crack those skulls. you're 100% right. he said that behind the scenes. he said that publicly as well. let me get to some specifics here from the book. almost immediately after his inauguration hi set a record by filing paperwork for his 2020 re-election campaign. that allowed him to immediately begin fund-raising. but michael, he had not even begun the job of leading the country, and yet, he wanted to do it again. why is this was it about winning, which he of course is obsessed with? was it about raising money? was it about power? was it hoping that by being president it would grant him some sort of global, you know, universal respect or devotion that he craves? and if the answer in your mind is all of the above, just pick the one that rises to the top.
>> i think he was -- his top priority from day one was winning re-election. that's clear. it was clear to me in the time and in writing -- in reporting this book. they filed the paperwork, as you say, on day one to start getting ready to run for re-election. he hires his first campaign manager after just a year on the job, and this is another string in the book, threaded through the book that i'm not sure who around him at the campaign or inside the white house ever shared that single priority with trump. everyone had their own reason for working with him or working for him, and you know, and it turns into bitter rivalries really from day one of the white house, and you know, at the end of the day he was not well-served about that. i have scenes in the book about that, about how in the final days of the campaign, in the final weeks of the race, members
of the white house and the campaign and the rnc have to have these kind of come to jesus meetings to make sure they're at least all speaking with each other. there are points where they weren't even speaking to each other. you know, and that leads to top staffers in the republican party not voting for trump. i don't know when that has ever happened. >> yeah. >> you know, before this year. >> i want to get to the front row joes. that's a real community of devoted trump fans stemming from his public life before the presidency, they became a visible community. they became friends. some of them had voted for barack obama. they weren't necessarily die hard republicans, but talk about the role they have played in sort of fomenting the trump fan base? >> yeah, absolutely. thanks. i think it's one of the things that i'm really proud of in this book is this is the first book about trump, and there's a pantheon of them, you know, there's a whole library of trump
books. this is the only one to date that looks at trump inside the white house meetings, behind the curtains at the campaign, and i effectively embedded for two years with this hardcore cross section of the trump base that goes to 30, 40, 50 rallies. to find out why, what about themselves and what about this president drew them back over and over again. and you know, i think that's a really important question. not only then but more so now because trump is back on the rally circuit. he's drawing thousands -- he drew thousands to the fairgrounds outside cleveland, thousands to central florida for a rally this month, and you know, i think it's still -- it's an even more relevant question for the party and for the country. why are people still coming back to support trump, to go to these rallies after what happened on january 6th. >> yeah, we're going to have to leave that question, it's one that i can't answer. that's for sure. i just have to say from the top
of my head, i think it was a woman named sandra who you got to know pretty well, one of these trump front row joes. it was so interesting the way they would communicate. they became friends this group of people. they were kind of like extended family, and i k cracked up when you wrote about how she or another one had asked you, you know what, could we maybe share a hotel room because she was low on funds and stuff and, you're like not sure that ethically i can do that given whatever my job is and besides i'm married. i thought that was absolutely hilarious. it was a great line. when things really started coming off the rails in the trump presidency. was it the 2020 election loss or was it a year earlier after the president was impeached, he became obsessed with all of that, which was by the way the first of two times or even before that with the fears about running against joe biden, all the things that he was alleged to have done that got him into impeachment trouble in the first place. >> yeah, i mean, i think things start -- i think trump starts to feel the pressure and the kind of walls closing in on him about
mid-2020. i mean, if you remember the start of the year, he was kind of at a -- it was really his high water mark of his presidency politically. he'd been impeached, yes, but he was acquitted and largely americans blamed democrats for overplaying their hand and wasting their time and his poll numbers were on the rise. impeachment had super charged his fund-raising. the economy was red hot. the one issue that he wanted to run on. and then by june he realized, you know, by june when george floyd's killed and the protests have taken off and trump hasn't really figured out a message or a response to covid, the protests frustrate him even further, and you know, what happens -- and this book details -- is he's lashing out at the people around him. and this is where he becomes, according to the people who talked to me for this book, he becomes, you know, violent and
unhinged in his desperation to hold on for office. this is where he starts talking about, you know, getting physical with protesters and raising concerns on his team. >> we shall say that is something you are reporting along with many, many others, so multiple sourcing on that topic. listen, unfortunately i'm out of time. i hope this just whets people's appetite for getting this book. it's so good. i loved it. it's just excellent, michael bender. >> thank you. >> so thank you, come see me again. >> thank you so much. >> best of luck with it. everything is bigger in texas, including the disagreements democrats left their state to block a vote that would restrict voting. how much backing are they really getting from the white house? ? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond. after my dvt blood clot... i was uncertain... was another around the corner? or could things take a different turn?
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what do we know about this meeting? we were just showing some video there, that was hosted by vice president kamala harris. >> reporter: the white house has been pulling out all the stops, alex, in its attempt to try to raise the profile of this issue and show urgency as civil rights activists are really losing patience, even as the prospects for getting something done through federal legislation in congress seem as dim as ever with senator joe manchin making clear this week he does not support a carveout to the filibuster to try to pass voting rights legislation, even if the white house supported it and even if every other democrat was on board. so we saw earlier this week president biden give that major speech in philadelphia in which he called protecting the sacred constitutional right to vote one of the top priorities for right now. we also saw vice president kamala harris meeting with those group of texas democrats who fled the state in an attempt to prevent that legislation cracking down on voting rights from being passed in a special session. and when she met yesterday at the white house with these black voting rights activists, some of
them were the same folks who had been engaged this past week in peaceful acts of civil disobedience outside the capitol in support of voting rights. here's what vice president kamala harris told them. >> no one is going to make us do what we know is our right and responsibility, which is to fight for our democracy and fight for our rights every day of the week, and this is -- let's be clear, not about any one racial group or gender group. this is about all americans. this is not an issue about democrats versus republicans. this is about americans. and this group of national leaders are very clear about that. this is a fight for all people regardless of who they voted for in the last election or who they vote for in the next election. >> reporter: and have no doubt about it, alex, a part of this is also about making a case ahead of the midterm elections next year. take a look at this poll, which came out recently, on line poll from ugov and yahoo showing 63% of americans support making
election day a national holiday, while about half support banning partisan gerrymandering as well as requiring at least 15 days of early voting. today is actually the one-year anniversary, alex, of the death of long-time congressman john lewis. president biden in just the last few minutes putting out a statement noting that this was the cause of congressman lewis's life. biden calling on congress on this occasion once again to pass the federal john lewis voting rights act, alex. >> i well remember that day. we were on the air and we had congressman jim clybourne who responded that morning after he'd passed in the wee hours of the morning and brought him to tears. it was a really sad day, i remember it well. thank you for the reminder of that as well. so let's get some black voters matter cofounder reaction to that, latosha brown joins us once again. it's always good to see you. so you along with other black women leaders, you met with vice president harris yesterday concerning voting rights. tell us about the meeting and was anything promised? what do you think was
accomplished by it? >> i think there was a promise, we had the opportunity to really be able to listen to and learn more about what the vice president has been doing in regards to really pushing this voting legislation, voting rights legislation. she shared with us how she met with senators immediately after the vote, the initial vote on the voting rights act, on the -- for the people act, i'm sorry. she was able to meet with many congress people and senators and continue to be engaged in conversations. she also talked about how she was using, you know, her role in terms of leaning on this issue of getting agencies to enter agencies within the administration to actually make this a priority. that she also had reached out to community groups and organizations and advocates, civil rights advocates and wanted to actually hear their recommendations in terms of going forward and also to assure us that she was actually standing -- she was standing with us, you know, around this urgency of the vote. i think what we were able to do
also is to actually really reaffirm that we see this as a critical urgent issue, that we recognize that right now that democracy is under threat, and that we have to have federal legislation, that we can't organize ourselves out of this. we can't litigate ourselves out of this. we have to have federal legislation. >> so let me talk about you and the fact that you've been pretty vocal about the president's speech in philadelphia on tuesday, in which you're quoted as saying the challenge for me is what he didn't say. well will the full weight of the white house be used to make sure that we secure permanent voting rights for our citizens? the president stopped by your meeting yesterday, in fact. were you able to ask him that question directly? what are you hearing on it? >> i wasn't able, he just peeked in and spoke and then he left and thanked us for our work. i think that we have to really recognize that this is a serious critical, that we're going to need the white house to literally pull the full weight, as i said in my statement behind literally getting the for the
people act and the john lewis voter advancement act passed, and if that means ending the filibuster, then they have to be willing to do that. we have to send a strong message, whenever you're seeing voting rights being attacked, there has to be a strong message where there are consequences. you can't leverage with a party that is actually acting as an obstructionist, like the party that literally is trying to marginalize people from vote, yet we're literally going to put aside the vote and the power of people to actually leverage power for them. no, what we're saying is it is unconscionable what we're experiencing right now. people use their civil rights to vote, now they're being attacked. we need to see the same kind of urgency and passion around this. >> how do you respond to senator joe manchin who said he's not even going to carve out an exemption to the chamber's filibuster rule for voting rights legislation? >> i think we should respond a couple of ways. i think one, we have to continue to keep the pressure on. i have to remind people that lbj was saying that he wasn't going
to sign the civil rights legislation, that it wasn't -- it took public pressure, and so we have to, those of us that are working in the communities, those of us that are voters in this nation, have to put pressure on the senate to pass this. in addition to that, the president has a lot of power, and so that's why we're saying that we need the full weight of the administration to put pressure, whatever way they need to use their strategy, they need to pass this legislation. >> yeah. you might have heard the end of my conversation with john letterman, i'm so glad thathe reminded us about john lewis. cities across the country are honoring his life. we remember john lewis as a fighter for voting rights, in the spirit of his legacy, latosha, how should americans rally to ensure voting rights legislation at the federal level? >> you know, i was there when he did his last public appearance on the edmund pettus bridge, and what he said is we have to
continue to fight. this is a moment, y'all, that it is extremely dangerous that when we're able, when voters that use their civil rights are attacked and punished because they're voting, do we understand how that is the unraveling of democracy. there's a saying that democracy dies in the dark, but what we're seeing right now is democracy being attacked in the sunlight. the democracy is being attacked with a spotlight on it. so this is a moment right now where we have to organize, call out senators. we have to get out on the streets. we've got to put pressure. we have to put pressure on the administration that under no circumstances can we allow people who use their sichl civil rights to be attacked and punished because they voted. >> i love the passion you're talking about this with, the fact is you are not letting up. there's no grass growing under your feet. so you go girl. latosha, thank you so much. it's good to see you. so through the midterm elections, they are a year or so, a year and a half away, there's already plenty of political jousting. what can democrats do to hold on
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today in miami, cuban americans will be gathering in solidarity with anti-government protesters in cuba, and it comes nearly one week since thousands of cubans rushed the street to denounce the communist regime. msnbc's stephanie stanton is on the ground for us in miami, stephanie, with a big welcome. so the area there, it has a very large cuban population. i'm curious what you're hearing today in terms of how they feel about what's happening in cuba right now. >> reporter: well, alex, i can tell you that thousands, tens of thousands are expected to line the streets here in downtown miami in support of the cuban people. we are here outside the freedom tower, and this is where preparations are underway for that big rally that is set to begin here at 5:30 tonight. now, i do want to let you know, of course, that all week long
people here in miami have been taking to the streets in protest, in support of the cuban people. they are calling what is happening in cuba a humanitarian disaster, and we saw protests happening in cuba itself, which is quite uncommon. the cuban people really don't tend to take to the streets in protest, maybe out of fear of the regime. but this past week we saw that happen, and we saw many of them saying that they cannot even get basic necessities like food and medicine and many say that they are simply fed up. now, this event that will be set to take place here today, it is organized by jean-carlos, among other actresses and celebrity, emelioest fan, canella spoke with nbc news yesterday and he talked more about today's rally
and the plight of the cuban people. >> what is happening in cuba is not just an abuse of power, it's not just 62 years of a totalitarian system killing and abusing our people. it is a humanitarian rights issue. we ask that everyone stand with us outside of the freedom tower at 5:30 as a gesture of solidarity with our cuban people. >> reporter: and again, that rally expected to last about three hours. it will commence with the tower being lit up in red, white, and blue in honor of the cuban flag. alex. >> okay, stephanie stanton, thank you for that update from miami, i appreciate that. let's bring in james carville, democratic strategist, and that's all i need to say because we all know who you are, james. good to see you. thanks for joining me. before i get to this cuba issue, here's a new headline, democrats see edge in early senate map as trump casts big shadow. this cites senator warnock of
georgia, senator kelly of arizona. it suggests part of this is the anti-trump factor. how about you, how do you read it? >> i read it pretty much the same way. i mean, the map is pretty good. they're having to defend a lot more seats than we are in this cycle, and we have to have a good cycle because the 2024 map is not good at all. so i am somewhat encouraged. we have to hold with new hampshire, and we have to hold arizona and georgia, but we've got real pick up chances in north carolina, pennsylvania, wisconsin, places like that. we've got some real good pickup opportunities. so i'm mildly optimistic. >> okay, but here's the deal. you just said something that i had no intention of asking because i don't really want to think about 2024. but you being who you are, you just said that 2024 doesn't look good. why not? >> well, because we had a big year in '18, so we just have more seats at risk in 2024 than
we do in 2022. >> indeed that makes sense in the six-year terms. okay, got it. i thought there was something else i was missing. >> oh, no, no. >> let me ask about cuba. how do you says the white house handling of the developments there from a politically strategic standpoint? >> well, first of all, seems like between haiti and cuba both, and they're both huge cuban population in the united states, and a pretty sizable haitian population. no one thought the caribbean would be on fire. i think they're doing fine. i don't know what, you know -- i don't think they'd take humanitarian aid from us, and actually, it seems like the sanctions we put on them are kind of working because people are getting sick of it. i don't like that government there either. i hope to get rid of it. i mean, i really do. i don't think there's much appetite for america to have any kind of military presence or anything like that. >> yeah. president biden used some pretty tough words calling cuba a
failed state, condemning communism as a failed system, adding socialism is not a very useful substitute. but i know you saw aoc who tweeted support for protesting cubans but said that america's 60--year-old embargo plan, that's what plays a role in their suffering, and she was taken to task by former congresswoman debbie mccar sell powell. she lost her seat after being pounded by socialist ads. do you think there's a lack of understanding among progressives about how communism is perceived in places like florida where some escaped it? >> totally. i don't like -- i don't know, you know, any democrats that i hang around with thinks that communism, totalitarianism is abhorrent. and when they say this without any lack of what's going on, it damages the party because people have to answer for this. why are we sympathetic to cuba or venezuela, i have no idea, but i'm not in that parade, i can tell you.
>> yeah, here's something you say. you say wokeness is a threat to the democratic party in '22, but democrats held the majority last november in spite of gop attack ads about socialism, about defunding the police and the like. why do you see messaging becoming a bigger challenge next year? >> we barely held, barely. we were on schedule to pick up 15 seats. we lost numerous seats. i mean, you know, i know messaging hurt us. all you have to do is see it. about a fifth of our party i think is kind of naive, and we pay a large price for that. two-thirds of their party are absolute lunatics. two-thirds of southern republicans believe in secession. i will defend it. i don't think what congresswoman aoc said -- i think it is hurtful, not helpful, and i think it is factually wrong. but look at all of the nutty
things that they come up w we have to figure a way to make them pay more for their looneys than we pay for our people who i think are good people, just naive. >> let me ask from a social standpoint, james. don't you think that progressives have to push in order to break through with their message? otherwise, nothing ever changes. if you have to go to an extreme to get change, isn't it an argument for some of the progressive messaging on the issues like voting and police reform? >> you are going to get change all right, but it is not going to be the kind of change that you want. you are going to lose elections. the most effective way to bring about change is to win elections. so now we are talking about voting rights and everybody is all steamed up. somebody -- i said somebody, they have to get a math teacher and explain the concept of 50 plus one. all right. that's just where you are. you know, i understand that people have to push for the sort of social change over a period of time, but right now we have to win elections.
if we lose -- look at your supreme court. look at the consequences. look how many people don't have medicaid expansion. the consequences are unbelievable. now we are fighting down to the last vote to give people the right to vote. >> yeah. >> because in my opinion we botched up a lot of the election in 2020. >> let me ask you on that point. i mean look at the steps texas democrats are forced to take right now to try to prevent republicans from ramming through this restrictive voting bill. >> right. >> james, from a political standpoint, do you think leaving the state might hurt the democrats there from a policy standpoint? i mean they had no choice, right? so are these important -- >> i think they got -- >> but are they trade-offs between policy and politics? >> always. that's the essence of politics. i mean it is all trade-off and compromise and counting and putting coalitions together. understand, the democratic party is a group of coalitions. by the way, the people we get better with were veteran households. we get better with white married
men. i mean we have a chance to expand our coalition. that's the only way that we can hold on to power. actually, our messaging was off to black voters, was off to brown voters. look at what happened in the rio grande valley. look what happened in miami-dade. look at the pew analysis of the election returns, the catalyst analysis. it is all the same thing. you know, i'm frustrated because i keep pounding to me what is an obvious point home, and if they're more interested in tending to their fundraising list of being on television, sure, they can do that any time, but you are going to do it in the minority. that's what is going to end up happening if we don't get our messaging together and start talking about things that are relevant in people's lives and stay off cuba and a lot of this other stuff. >> well, okay, speaking of being on television any time, you can come back on my show any time you want to, james. i'm just saying.
>> thank you, alex. i always like to do it. >> i appreciate it. >> you got it. bye-bye. some parts of europe received two months of rain in just two days, yet some are questioning why so many had to die. so what happened? ♪ ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ to deliver our technology as-a-service. hi, verizon launched the first 5g network, and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g by giving every customer a new 5g phone, on us, aha! old customers. new customers. families. businesses. in-laws. law firms. every customer. new 5g phones when you trade in your old ones.
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now it is a pile of rubble with some car wreckage that was -- there's a car and behind it there's another couple of cars that were washed away from the flood and they ended up here. there's nothing left of this train station apart from the rails, also part of those have collapsed. in the distance there, i don't know whether you can see it, there used to be -- there are two enormous concrete pillars. that used to be a walkway to go from one part of the river to another. we just spoke to a resident here living just next to this live position. she told me that the r river, which is the river to my left, is usually the calmest, gentlest waterway, usually very shallow, up to the waist. very famous for germans who want to come and relax and take a walk by the riverside. on wednesday evening that shallow, gentle waterway bake a monster, a raging river that broke the banks, very tall banks, and just inundated all of this area. now, that resident also told me
that it became -- it came in so quickly, the water rose so fast that she had to warn -- wake up the rest of the tenants that were sleeping on the ground floor to help them escape, and they had to all -- the whole building, they had to run up the hill where there are some vineyards and slept there all night waiting for the water to recede. now, the president of germany today said it would take weeks to understand really the impact of this flooding, but by the look of it, well, it is incredible just to see it, alex. >> it is, absolutely incredible. i can't believe that twisted metal and wood and mess behind you was a train station. it is extraordinary. thank you, claudio lavagna, for reporting for us. a federal judge's new ruling puts daca and dreamers in jeopardy again. president biden doesn't like it one bit, but what can he do about it? do about it wright brothers? more like, yeah right, brothers!
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