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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 7, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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apparently she didn't learn enough to not ever bring up nazis again. in a tweet yesterday, she called door to door campaigners medical brown shirts, making a comparison to a group who helped hitler rise to power. everyone is fuelling panic over president biden's comments instead of pleading for people to get vaccinated. that's the show tonight. tonight on "all in" -- >> we need go neighborhood by neighborhood and often times door to door knocking on doors to get help to the remaining people protected from the virus. >> the biden push to stop covid death intensifies. toxic right wing politics keeps getting people killed. >> how about don't knock on my door? you are the government. >> then why the fbi seized a
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lego set of the capitol building from a riot suspect. >> there are more individuals that are going to be receiving the same indictments. >> why it may be more than just informed speculation that ivanka trump could face an indictment of her own. how the national rise in violent crime can be traced back to the explosion of gun sales in america. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. i will start off showing you an image that in my opinion perfectly represents the state of the country, the state of american politics, the state of our battle against coronavirus. at first, this will probably make no sense, depends on your background here. it unpacking. chip roy, from the suburbs of austin tweeted this. come inject it.
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get it? the basic meaning here is more or less, you can give me the vaccine over my cold, dead body, more or less. okay. first of all, some background on chip roy, the man who tweeted this. he comes from a conservative district that has been trending towards democrats. he held onto his seat. around january 6, he made headlines because he said that he would vote to certify the ee ee -- electors for joe he condemned trump's words and actions. >> the president of the united states deserves universal condemnation for what was impeachable conduct, pressuring the vice president. >> roy did not end up voting for impeachment, despite the fact you see him saying it's
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impeachable conduct. he did get attacked by trump for it. since then, he has had to pay the price. he challenged congresswoman stefanik, because she was critical of the president whipping up a violent insurrection. he threw his hat in the ring for that. trump endorsed stefanik. roy has a more conservative voting record. that's who chip roy is. standard conservative republican who is adapting himself to trump world. he is a cancer survivor, who tweeted in december. my dad survived polio. i don't know whether he has been vaccinated or not. it would be logical to conclude he has gotten the vaccine. i hope he has. we did reach out to his office to ask. we got no response. he told other reporters it's
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none of their business. as congressman roy is tweeting the image, come inject it -- there's a lot going on there. it's important to note, there's a very big divergence happening in this country right now, day by day by day, two paths diverging between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. over 67% of adults in the country have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine. we hit a wall. the wall is not about supply. we had a wall -- supply wall in january and february and march. we have more supply than almost anywhere in the world. the wall is not really due to logistics. you can get a vaccine just about anywhere in the country. the reality is there's a chunk of the country that does not want to take the vaccine or has not gotten around to it. not gotten around to it, we can work on that. we will talk to our next guest about that. the biggest resistance right
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now -- you see it in the data -- is from a cultural opposition to the vaccine among conservatives, particularly in rural america. this has been cultivated by right wing politicians, like congressman chip roy and fox news who have done segments encouraging people not to get the vaccine. it's very, very sick -- it's sick. it's gotten a lot of people killed. it will get many more people killed. that's just the simple fact of the matter. right now, the delta variant is spreading. we are seeing what happens in the death data. in the month of june, nearly 100 people died of covid in maryland. thankfully, that's a small enough. relative to the peak of the pandemic. according to state officials, 100% of those deaths were people who were not vaccinated. the cdc says in may, 99.2% of covid deaths in the u.s. were people who were unvaccinated.
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the vaccines -- they have been tested and we have real life data now. not just clinical trials. these are going into millions of arms around the world. different populations. we're getting data back. the vaccines are essentially magic. you might remember last year when we were covering the pandemic, talking to you into the camera. i used to say, we had two bad options. we had door number one, shutting down the economy to save lives. that was awful. kids couldn't go to school. people didn't -- couldn't go out of their house. they couldn't hug relatives. door number two, let it run rampant. we had to get to door number three, a life and an economy and family dinners and people you can hug. without letting the virus run rampant and kill off hundreds of thousands of people. we got exactly door number three. we got the solution, the vaccine. basically nothing else in life
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functions this way. think about it. none of your problems in your work life, your relationships can be solved by someone just saying, here, take this shot and it's fixed. you are staring at financial problems, in debt, you are upset about a breakup, you don't get a shot. that's not how human life works. it's complicated and hard. but this is one exception. this is literally what the vaccines offer. it's in this context that we have a right wing movement mobilizing to refuse that solution. to cultivate skepticism in their flock, to stick it to the liberals but also to get lots of people killed. that brings us to this image. it's a play on a famous texas image. a texas meme if you will. the gonzales battle flag which depicts cannon and says, come and take it. the flag dates back to the first
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military engagement of the texas revolution with mexican authorities who tried to seize a small cannon they had lent to the texas settlers. the phrase itself dates back farther back. it's attributed to a king of sparta who gave that to the demand his soldiers lay down their weapons. it was a texas slogan for a long time. recently, it has become a very gun rights slogan. just try to come and take our guns. try to come and take our weapons. texas senator ted cruz tweeted a thanksgiving version. come and take my turkey. okay. tough guy that ted cruz. here is chip roy, ted cruz's former chief of staff tweeting it out as the delta variant is
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spreading. we see case numbers go up faster, higher per capita in counties won by trump. we see what the data says about the protection of the vaccine. death is the cost of non-vaccination for people that he represents in his district. take a step back. remember, his fellow congressmen in texas's sixth district next door, congressman ron wright died in february of covid. none of this makes sense. it doesn't make sense. i don't know. it's like a dark force. they like covid. they want to see people die. i don't know. i don't know. that's part of what makes this image such a perfect encapsulation of the moment. he says, how dare you inject me with this life saving medicine.
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this is the conservative view. do you have -- it's true. god bless them. good for them. establishment saying it's good. the base of the republican party, let us be clear, people like congressman roy, if not anti-vaccine, they are anti-pro vaccine, saying the vaccine shouldn't be forced on people. it's a government plot. you can come and inject me. yesterday, president biden in the context of us hitting this wall and trying to get the vaccine in as many arms as possible to save as many lives as possible so people can do normal stuff and hug family members and go to work and live said they will go door to door to bring the vaccines to people to get the numbers up. republican congressman marjorie taylor greene compared that to the nazis again apparently learning nothing from her visit to the holocaust museum. no surprise there. understand where we are right now.
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due to incredible work by thousands and thousands of people, researchers, support staff, the people giving the shots, the people who gave me a shot who i wanted to hug in gratitude, right, all these people working towards this project, this great project, to save people's lives. we have safe, effective, free vaccines. those vaccines will save lives. they will save money. they will help the economy. reopen schools. the benefits are almost impossible to list. there's nothing on the other side of the ledger. nothing. there's nothing on the other side of the ledger. it's not a tradeoff. and yet, increasingly, one political movement is trying to turn the vaccine into a culture wedge. so they can tweet out memes and stick up their middle finger at the cost of american lives. that's where we are right now. david laneheart is a senior
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writer for "the new york times." he joins me now. david, you have been looking through the data and seeing the same worrying trends i am. what do you see? >> chris, for a long time, the trends have been messy. they didn't neatly fit partisan patterns. some of that is that covid is a disease we don't fully understand. some is that the places where people have been less interested in getting the vaccines are conservative places which tend to be warmer, like texas and florida. people can go outdoors in the spring. some of it is -- a lot of progressives have tended towards things that don't actually make a difference. masks don't do anything to combat covid. wearing a mask after you are vaccinated doesn't seem to matter. it has messy. it is becoming less messy. what's happening is that more progressive communities are getting to the point with vaccination that they really are
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just crushing the disease. you look at communities where they have vaccination rates up into the 70s and 80s and 90s and covid is going away. then you look at rural counties in arkansas and missouri where vaccination rates are around 25% and 30%, and you combine it with this highly contagious new variant, and we see these surges of covid. you look at the nationwide line on covid cases and it's flat. what that hides is that covid is plummeting in metropolitan america. it's on the rise in small towns and rural areas. it's scary. >> that point about the messiness is important. i remember when we did a segment early on about vaccination about how west virginia was doing a good job ahead of other states. there's lots of ways in which the data doesn't sort in this red/blue way. the worst hit was the northeast, new jersey, new york, connecticut. no testing. hospitals melting down. you look at the death data, it's awful.
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one of the things that i find so hard to get my head around here is, when you have the lockdown, you had this argument -- i disagreed with the people on the other side about it. it was a cost/benefit argument. at what level -- what's too restrictive? what price are we paying for this restriction and what are we trade agway? we don't have that anymore. there's no cost. in a literal sense but also in a deeper substantive sense. you go and get the shot. that's it. you don't have to stay in your house for six weeks. my friend and colleague sometimes says the way he is able to understand partisan motivated reasoning, he thinks about his affinity for the seahawks and how irrational
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sports can make us. i don't understand the hostility to the vaccination, when it could kill someone or kill your family members. it's deeply, deeply irrational. i want to be clear. there is no equivalent right now among democrats of this behavior. there's none. i think it's important for democrats to think how this could be happening. i mentioned the outdoor masks for a reason. there is no evidence that wearing masks outdoors does anything. right? there's no evidence that wearing masks after you are vaccinated does virtually anything. and yet, i know that it is a very important piece of behavior to many democratic voters. all i would say is, it's worth remembering, many of us are not rational. we care about our identity. we care about doing things that make us feel like part of something larger. i think that's some of what we are seeing among republicans. >> totally. >> i'm not defending it. >> we all have the same wiring.
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we have cognitive biases. we have negative -- that's all true. my point isn't really about the people. it's about the leadership. that's what's so, to me -- will use my own words, despicable here. everyone is taking signals from people they trust. everyone is navigating this through the prism of identity and what team you are on and what those people over there or what my people do and trying to evaluate. for the leadership to get behind this strikes me as so deeply reckless. that to me is where the asymmetry is. we see it play out on the ground. thank you so much for your time. >> thanks, chris. i want to bring in dr. anthony fauci to discuss what's going on. he is the director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. he is the chief medical advisor to president biden. he joins me now. dr. fauci, you and the biden
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administration, you inhabit the world as it is. the world as it is is hitting a wall in this country on the vaccine and vaccine uptake. how to get over that wall. it seems like whatever it takes, if i say nothing would infuriate me more if people in these counties got the vaccine, i will be very upset, you will own me. i don't know what it is. what's are the brain -- what is your understanding in the administration of how to get over the wall? >> chris, i think you said the words. whatever it takes. this is, as you mentioned, life saving. it's not like we're out there trying to sell encyclopedias. we're out there trying to get people to save their lives, those of their loved ones and those of the community.
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whatever it takes. one of the things we have done -- i think has helped somewhat and maybe a lot -- is to employ trusted messengers as opposed to what you heard from the clip of somebody who doesn't want the government knocking on their door. we're not talking about the government knocking on your door. we're talking about people who you can relate to in the community who you trust. whoever that might be. i have been speaking, for example, to a number of people on their instagrams. people at barber shops or beauty salons or physicians, family doctors, people you trust, sports figures, people in the community that really get it, that what we are talking about is trying to save lives. the piece that you just gave is absolutely accurate. where there are high levels of vaccination, there's low levels of infection, low hospitalization and almost no deaths.
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where you have no vaccination, you have higher levels of infection, higher risk and hospitalization. it's not complicated. you said that very passionately. i agree with you completely. this is not complicated. we're not asking anybody to make any political statement one way or another. we're saying, try and save your life. that of your family. that of the community. we have so many things, as you said, so many diseases that i deal with that don't have solutions. it's very frustrating. you don't have a treat or you don't have a vaccine. here we have a vaccine that's highly, highly effective in preventing disease and certainly in preventing severe disease and hospitalization. it's easy to get. it's free. and it's readily available. you have to ask, what is the problem? get over it. get over this political statement. just get over it and try and
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save the lives of yourself and your family. >> i want to complicate the picture a little bit. it's a complicated country. it's a big and complicated country. i don't want to put everyone into one bucket. this is from the tampa bay times last friday. really interesting statistics. two zip codes in the tampa -- in the gulf coast area there. similar populations. one of them 92.6% vaccinated, one 30% vaccinated. one of them white, the 92.6%. higher poverty rate in the second zip code there. 20%, more than double the first one. that makes me think, there's also an obvious socioeconomic issue we are dealing with beyond whatever political messaging people are getting that there are people in areas that are not getting the vaccine that is
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associated with higher poverty rates, lower socioeconomic opportunity. that's a solution that -- that's a problem that has to get solved. >> it does. we are making attempts of reaching out to people like that to just essentially extend yourself. as a matter of fact, you mentioned tampa bay. a week or so ago, i went down to tampa bay with first lady dr. jill biden. we were there encouraging and seeing hispanics, once you get out there and show yourself there and say why it's so important, you can make headway. we don't give up on that group at all. there's still a lot that can be done. again, it's with trusted messengers. i think it was really a great trip we made. it's interesting and i could incidental that you mention tampa bay. >> what are the -- what's the
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target -- what's the worst case scenario? if you hit the wall in these places and you have counties in america that are 20% vaccinated, what does that look like going into the winter? >> well, as i have said multiple times, chris, it is a situation where you have almost two americas. an at-risk, continuing to get infected, continuing to get hospitalized, unvaccinated america. and a vaccinated america that has very low level of infection, very low level of hospitalization and very low death. for the individuals within those areas that don't want to get vaccinated, it's going to be very risky from an individual health standpoint. from the country as a whole, it's going to prevent us from just completely crushing this outbreak. what we will have, because certain sections are not going to want to get vaccinated, is
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this smoldering threat that's always there. one of the threats that's worrisome is the more circulation of virus you have, without completely crushing it, the greater chance of the evolution of yet again another variant, which we may not be able to handle as well. lucky for us, the variants that are circulating are handled quite well by the vaccines that are available. we are pretty lucky in that regard. if be keep allowing the virus to circulate, wherever it is, whatever red states or whatever states are not the ones that are getting vaccinated, then you have the threat of the entire system getting in trouble, because you have a new variant. >> dr. anthony fauci, as always, good to talk to you. thank you for coming on tonight. >> good to be with you. thanks for having me. we will be right back with the story of the insurrectionist
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fans of lego like myself, might be familiar with the architecture line. it's buildable models of famous buildings around the world. until the late 2019 retirement from the line, because it's changing all the time, the united states capitol. if you can put it together, it's more than 1,000 pieces.
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you can own a detailed model of the building. quote, discover its architectural secrets. remove the dome to access the rotunda interior depicting the national statuary hall. lego may no longer manufacture the model. one of the rioters managed to get his hands on it. when 27-year-old robert morris of pennsylvania was arrested last month, officers recovered a fully constructed u.s. capitol lego set, according to court documents. they found a notebook in his car that contained a list titled, and i quote, step by step to create a hometown militia, including reminders like, bring assault rifle. morris showed up at the capitol on january 6 dressed in camouflage wearing a tactical vest containing scissors.
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his next court appearance is scheduled for tuesday when a judge will decide if he should remain in jail. more than 500 people have been arrested. each day, we get more details about them, what happened. scott mcfarlane is covering the case. he joins me now. scott, this detail -- all i can imagine is whoever is searching the home coming upon this saying, this seems relevant. >> a lot of the cases have shapes or patterns or symmetry. this case has a shape all its own. robert morris is from state college, pennsylvania. they say he came to the capitol with a tactical vest and scissors. they said he had a tourniquet. the feds say he joined multiple fronts. first, scraping with police
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outside, grabbing a baton. coordinating the theft and movement of police shields. he joined with the rioters in the west tunnel against police. then they say he broke into and was unlawfully inside a private office in the capitol. we knew some of that from the original charging documents. it's what the feds said when they tried to get him held in jail that included some of the new revelations. they found guns. they found the tourniquet. they found a notebook with writings that included step by step how to create a hometown militia. yes, they say they found that fully completed lego set of the u.s. capitol. they mentioned it once. they didn't provide context as to what they think that meant. prosecutors rarely put things in documents without some reason. we hope to find that reason today. there was supposed to be a detention hearing. that's why i was reporting on this case this morning and why other reporters did so today.
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it was postponed. maybe we find out tuesday. >> one question that has confronted judges is whether to hold people pretrial or not. the assessments to the degree of danger or flight risk. there are two brothers who are attempting to petition to be able to attend their third brother's wedding. there's been folks who are trying to be released. tell me about the case of the two brothers and what the pattern has been in terms of who has been detained pretrial and who hasn't. >> yes. both of oregon, both accused of income the capitol illegally. both released from jail pending trial. they have a third brother who is getting married next month. they petitioned the court to allow them to go outside the restricted zone and attend the wedding. matthew is to be the best man. the judge has agreed. that promised to be a heck of a wedding. that being said, there's this
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huge range between what judges are allowing for some defendants and others. some defendants accused of laying hands on police are being kept in jail believed to be a danger to the community. others are being released from jail. we will see if robert morris is one of them when he has his hearing tuesday. >> scott mcfarlane, as always, thank you for the updates. i appreciate it. ahead, does the manhattan district attorney have ivanka trump in his sights? what the weisselberg charges tell us where the trump investigation goes next, right after this. ext, right after this appen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils.
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the trump organization took in more than $270 million last year. a steep decline from 2019 when it made at least $440 million. it's still a relatively large business. donald trump has worked hard to make sure that remains in the hands of a very small number of people. still a private company.
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a few employees besides trump himself have much power. you have the chief operations officer, chief financial officer allen weisselberg and trump's children, or some of them. each of those people have more exposure as the new york district attorney and the attorney general's investigation continues, because there's only a limited number of people you can blame. legal experts are now pointing to former first daughter and advisor to the president, ivanka trump as the next member of the inner circle who should be very concerned. like allen weisselberg, she was reportedly paid consulting fees while she was an active employee. that could open her up to tax fraud charges as well. a former federal prosecutor is predicting ivanka could be next. cynthia, take me through your thinking. i have seen a number of people
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who are informed and smart on this suggest similar or along these lines, there's reasons to be worried if you are ivanka. why? >> here is why. what we know from the weisselberg indictment is that there's a pervasive scheme at this company of tax fraud. there's a second set of books which is pretty detailed. there are lots -- several people involved in the scheme. different people are signing checks. there's witnesses there. it's hard for me to believe that the trump organization would decide, we're going to save allen weisselberg almost a million dollars in taxes but we're not going do it for anybody else. i don't believe that. i don't believe they would do that and not do it for higher ups in the company. right now, what we have is a situation where the only person indicted is allen weisselberg. nobody named trump. i find that hard to believe that the scheme didn't include them. whether or not they can prove
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it, separate thing. i do think that because of the pervasive scheme and because we have known since november of 2020 that she has this issue about payments, and the issue is this. at some point in 2017, she was paid $2.2 million from trump organization. also, there is a question of whether or not she got $750,000 in consulting fees. either you are an employee or an independent contractor. you are not both. >> correct. >> somebody i'm sure -- some brilliant tax person in the new york d.a.'s office is looking at this issue with a laser focus. it seems to me a logical place to be looking. >> two things. on the latter point, that even when we found that out, that was a head scratcher for anyone even vaguely familiar with the tax code. people all the time, they will
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be an employee and maybe they leave and they do some consulting afterwards, part-time on the side. you can't consult and be an employee for the same place, almost as a matter of definition, that looked weird even when we found out about it knowing nothing else. >> it looks fishy. if you add it looks fishy in a swamp of tax fraud, that's what makes me think that's where they are going to look. that makes sense to me. it seems to me that they have a system to save people tax money. that's part of the way that do their compensation. that's what we know from this indictment. whether or not they have the goods to prove it, we will see. that makes sense to me. >> that's such an important point. one of the things i think that i now understood having read the indictment is the perk isn't the car or the tuition. the perk is the tax evasion.
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>> right. >> the perk you are giving the employee is tax free compensation, which in real dollar terms is worth 40% to 50% more, because of the income level you are at, you would pay a ton in taxes. >> right. certainly, this is not the biggest tax case in the history of time. i don't think there's any question about that. if you are getting $235,000 in a gift of getting -- of not having to pay tax on that or you are getting -- that's pretty sweet. that's exactly what the gift is. and having said that, it breeds --weisselberg has been there almost 50 years. he employs his son. he may never flip. >> yeah. that's a good point. the loyalty angle is interesting to pursue. thank you so much.
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still ahead, what's behind the national increase in violence? the important detail that the headlines leave out. don't go anywhere. that's next. no, these are pants, dog. no way. my pants are pants, dog. pizza on a bagel—we can all agree with that. uhm whatever those are, they're not pants. [ ding ]
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dually-adjustable, foot-warming, temperature-balancing proven quality night sleep we've ever made. and now, the new queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is only $899. only for a limited time. let's talk about the crime waves sweeping through america's big cities. >> a crime wave across the country. >> seven in ten voters think crime is on the rise nationally. >> we have street chaos everywhere. crime is erupting in liberal cities all over this sunday. >> criminals in every city in america are liking what democrats are selling. you see unprecedented crime waves. >> you probably heard that crime is up over the last year. there's been a lot of coverage of it. whether this is the result or part of the cause of all the coverage, who is to say, americans are more concerned about crime than they have been in a while according to a new
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poll that found 28% of americans believe crime is a serious problem in the u.s., the highest number in 20 years. of course, conservatives are licking their chops as are police and other forces looking to rehab the old policy of mass incarceration. we remain the most incarceraing nation on earth. it's not all crime that is all. index crimes, those are murder, rape, robbery, burglary, the ones in national statistics, many are down. for example, property crime is down 7.9% in 2020 relative to 2019. property crime like shoplifting makes up 85% of all major crimes. what is indisputable is that murder and shootings are up. over 19,000 people were killed in shootings and firearm related incidents in 2020, the highest death toll in over 20 years.
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the u.s. murder rate increased in 2020. that amounts to more than 20,000 murders in a year for the first time since 1995. one piece of the puzzle that seems to not get much attention is the truly shocking proliferation of guns in the last year, which coincided with this rise in shootings and murder. the causal relationship not settled. but 2020 was the biggest year for gun sales in american history ever. last year, americans bought 23 million guns. 64% increase over 2019 sales, according to a "washington post" analysis. that's part of a larger trend which is an acceleration of gun sales. look at that chart. america is a violent place. america has a lot of guns. last year, america got more guns and got more violent. is it crazy to see a
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back in 2012, 2013 when the u.s. was at a historic low for gun violence and homicides, it was still more dangerous as a country than any other country in the developed democracies. so, we've always had higher homicide rates and more guns. those are just two starks facts about america. in the last year we've seen homicides go up, shootings go up and gun purchases go up. what's going on? i want to bring in amber goodwin and barry freedman, founding director of the policing project at new york university law school, author of "unwarranted policing without permission." barry, let me start with you from the stat studying perspective about this about what the literature and data suggests about this basic
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relationship between supply, more guns going into places, more being purchased, and gun violence and interpersonal violence. >> well, chris, there's obviously a relationship between supply and demand. that's basic economics. but you have to distinguish between lawful and unlawful gun purchases. and it's not clear we're seeing the merchandise that are the result of the kind of purchases going through background checks. i take the point. and we're going to see uptick in homicides and suicides with this many guns in the world. we've seen an uptick in child suicides. i'm not sure the homicide rate is because of the gun sales. >> amber, how do you think about gun violence as it relates to, sort of, the overall picture of both incarceration, policing and safety for folks in communitys that have seen some really
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upsetting increases in trauma and violence? >> yeah, i mean, the first thing i would say is that gun violence is a public health crisis. and for so long communities across the country, especially communities of color, people on the frontlines, people who are normally incarcerated, people who have been on all sides of the gun have been screaming loudly from our communities and saying we need to create gun violence as a public health crew sis. the crime is going up, but we have solutions that can work. if you look at cities like oakland and baltimore and new york state where the governor enacted a comprehensive approach to gun violence because of the work for many decades, gun violence is not only a public health crisis, but it's preventable. look at what the american health association says is the number one leading cause of premature deaths of people in this country. the good news is we have the solutions. we need people, especially policy makers to take them on.
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>> so, i want to come back to that. you can go to baltimore which has been a bright spot amidst this. this is a city i've done a lot of reporting on, which has not seen a spike. barry, we've seen this rise in interpersonal violence. we've seen other index crimes that have not gone up. we've seen interpersonal violence, particularly shootings and homicides across the 50 biggest cities. there's this sort of fascinating consistency in terms of the data we have in 2020 to 2019, which is big and small, places with different policies, different policing policies. how are you thinking about what we've seen in the last year, what we're seeing in the first six months of this year? >> well, chris, you know the problem i think is that we're all experiencing sort of whiplash. i mean, a year ago -- a year and six weeks ago, george floyd is killed and protests begin and everybody's talking about police reform. and now homicides are shooting up and everybody's talking about getting tough on crime again. so, it's very hard for folks to know what we should do.
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but i think the answer, as amber says, we have a lot of answers. we have answers about what works and treating gun violence as a public health crisis. and we have answers thinking getting tough is going to fix the problem. it exacerbates it. >> talk about the solutions, amber, and then barry, i would like to hear what are concrete things that we've seen, tested, implemented that work. >> well, one of the things i would say is we need to start asking the right questions and framing the questions around gun violence of not just is crime going up, where is crime going up. we need to be asking what do our communities need to be safer and asking the question about safety from the people direct i will impacted. what we've seen from across the country and working with hospitals and credible messengers in places like baltimore -- cherry hill went an entire year without a shooting.
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that's incredible. they're working with first responders every single day. a lot of the solutions we see including coming from people who are mayors, who are governors sometimes aren't enough because they're not releasing the funds that are already there, whether it's through president biden, what he did with the american jobs plan, and releasing funding for comprehensive approaches to gun violence or through different election officials across the country, including break the cycle, reintroduced by senator cory booker, which will really make sure we're not only funding things that we think may work and we can do experiments on but funding evidence-based solutions that work with communities directly and are not tied just to policing and mass incarcerations. break the cycle of violence act is something that can not only be modelled and needs to be pushed through congress, but the funds that have been allocated through the american jobs plan need to go to every city and every state across the country. >> barry, how are you thinking
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about solutions as something that you study basically full-time? >> yeah, i'll tell you what i think doesn't work and what works. and i want to begin by saying we have to hear from impacted communities about their concept of public safety. what doesn't work, what we always do in moments like this is we get tough through policing and decide to conduct lots of stops, pedestrian stops, stop and frisk, automobile stops. and all this does is angers the communities that the police need cooperation from to deal with the violence in those communities. what does work is there are a lot of community-based interventions, things like cure violence, credible messengers who can step in and deal with the violence. we've also seen job programs for young men in the inner city and after school programs. all of these things are demonstrated to bring down violence, and that's the direction you need to be looking. >> amber goodwin and barry
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freedman, thank you both so much for talking to us tonight. >> thanks for having us. that is "all in" for this evening. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thank you, my friend. much appreciated. thanks for joining this hour. happy to have you here. tonight the first lady of the nation of haiti is in the united states. she is said to be in critical condition with multiple gunshot wounds. she apparently was shot in her home in the middle of the night last night by armed attackers who shot and grievously injured her. those attackers killed her husband, the president of haiti. the u.s. has told staff at our u.s. embassy in haiti that they cannot leave the grounds. they are closing the u.s. embassy there. haiti has a land border with one countr


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