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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 6, 2021 1:00am-2:00am PDT

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do you have to -- does anybody know the answer to that stuff? okay? but they indict people for that. >> we hear a lot about using the company apartment. company apartment. his family was lying about the case and lied it was sympathetic quotes on trump tv. >> fringe employment benefits? is that really what the d.a. is focused on? they'll go after a corporate vehicle and a corporate apartment? >> they want to go after the cfo of the trump organization for free parking or something like that. >> the best they could come up with is a corporate car for the cfo of the trump organization. >> they spent millions of dollars. they reviewed 3 million documents, countless number of witnesses and they got a guy
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because he got a corporate cash and didn't declare it on his tax return. >> keep in mind amidst all this, they're not saying you have it all wrong at all. how dare you prosecute someone who's evading taxes on millions of particulars of income. that's nothing to us. people get prosecuted and go to jail for this all the time, i have news for you. you can ask baseball's pete rose after autographs and other things. lauryn hill. you can is michael grimm while running an upper eastside restaurant after keeping two sets of records. look. there's an inescapable political complex to all this because both sides of the prosecution are politicians. it's also a case that if what is
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alleged is true t politics should not manage to them. it was written, dean connected to a controversial figure shouldn't send you to jail. it shouldn't get yuf the hook either. author of "the making of donald trump: one wall for hungry pizza thieves and another for me," and he joins me now. david, i guess let's start with the idea of the background content. i think the likelihood they're trying to make is that's ridiculous, no one gets nailed for this. as a reporter, i covered people getting nailed for less than this. what say you? >> we don't prosecute many tax crimes in this country. 440 cases were actually accepted for prosecution by the justice department last year according to the newest irs statement.
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there are 330 million people, and 440 is not many cases. these are legal source cases, which is what applies here. this is not about drug dealing or bribery. having said that, the argument that, gee, this is nothing, $1.76 million is 34 years of income to the typical american worker, according to the latest data from social security. that's 34 years of working, but you don't have to report on it. well, gee, i wish i didn't have to report for the last 34 years what i made. >> right, exactly. there's also the two sets of books part of it that's intriguing to me because it speaks to some -- they have actual tangible evidence, right, that this was a fraudulent enterprise. it also makes you wonder what else they have access to. >> interestingly, allen
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weisselberg didn't get a raise for a number of years, which says a lot about donald trump, that he doesn't take care of his cfo. but keeping two sets of books is the classic indication of a fraud. i've said from the beginning this is a garden variety tax fraud case and you'll notice there's no denying what's going on. what's interesting that's been said so far is what donald said at his rally saturday night. does anybody know what the law is here? donald trump claims to be the greatest tax expert in the history of the world. >> it's also safe to say everyone knows, if you're compensated by your employer with perks like that, you have to report it as income. this is a very obvious and basic thing. obviously allen weisselberg knew that, obviously the trump organization knew it, and
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everyone knew it or they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to hide it. >> and the next question, who else has not been indicted who could be indicted? there's an unindicted co-conspirator in the indictment. he likely was jeff conway. he's the controller of the organization and logically would be a person involved in this criminal scheme. >> what do you think the stakes are here, zooming out a bit? you talked about how few tax crimes get prosecuted, and one of the themes of the trump era to me is how much wrongdoing has gone undeterred and uninvest gated and unprosecuted at the highest level of american life for so long and trump being the
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kind of ultimate manifestation of that if you just let people get away with things forever? >> well, we just reported that your odds if you made $10 million or more of having a completed audit in 2019 were one in 700 down from one in 20, i think it was, under obama in his first full year as president. >> wow. >> the entire amount of extra taxes found to be owed by this class of people who together make a trillion dollars almost and average $30 million each is $5.4 million. basically under donald trump, enforcement of the tax law at the top has largely stopped, and at the same time as i'm writing my piece, there's a person who was sentenced to 50 years, a hungry homeless man, 50 years for stealing a slice of pizza, and the u.s. supreme court has
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said sentences like that are reasonable. donald is part of a group of people who think they're special, they're above the law, they don't have to play by these rules. >> the"the new york times" poin out there are echos of the way his father did business regarding taxes. the first prosecution harkens back to his purchase of boilers in the 1990s which he allowed others to take a cut of as untaxed. it started long before donald trump took over the company. >> well, that's why it's important to recognize this is the first indictment. it's not the last indictment. there are likely to be others. if allen was getting these
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deals, then what kind of deals were don junior and eric and ivanka and others getting. we haven't seen those brought yet. >> david cay johnston, thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. she works out of the same office. she's now a professor of law at new york law school and she joins me now. rebecca, i want to start with what your legal advice would be if you were retained by, say, the trump family about how much you should be talking about the case/essentially conceding the facts of violating the law and public utterances. >> you know, i would try. i would try to tell them to not speak out publicly on these issues. i think part of the problem is trump and his family have done very well in the public at spinning things so that there's
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a legal case and there's a case before the public. and the problem now is the legal case has proceeded to the point of an indictment. so the words, the words of a top official within this company can be used against the company itself and ultimately if trump himself were to bin dieted, those words could be used against him. he needs to be careful now in a way this rhetoric has worked in a public relations-type way might really backfire in a court. >> it's also worked -- it's worked in more than public relations but legal spheres as well. i think bullying and being sort of intractable has paid legal diffidents. you have to recognize there's going go manhattan district attorney and letitia james is one. i don't think there's no such thing as law.
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everything is power, intimidation, and politics. >> i think you're 100% right. one of the things that's effective is the allegation that these things are politically i motivated. because then what happens is people sitting there, keeping their heading down, trying to follow the facts of the law have a really hard time. not only do they do that, but i have have to con vibs the public they're not doing this for political reasons, so you're caught in this really, really difficult moment where you have to do two things, which is bring a really solid case and address this rhetoric. in some ways, i think this indictment is extremely clever. it doesn't seem to be politically motivated, one, because it is is solid, and, two because it's not a small case. it's not a tiny case that's
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being brought on fringe benefits. they can say that until they're red in the face, and it isn't in those 25 pages. it's clearly as you said at the beginning of this show, a very significant tax fraud. it may not be that these cases are brought very often burkes if they come across these cases and don't bring them, they should be tossed out of office. this is exactly what the manhattan d.a.'s office does. they're not going to pursue every company, but if they find this type of tax fraud, they have to prosecute it. it makes it so that it's very hard for them to credibly get out there and say this is being done because of who the former president is rather than just what he did, these crimes, and, you know if they can be proved, the facts are pretty damning. >> you raised that these offices don't want to be pulled into the political thicket here.
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i can't help but they about the federal government here. obviously if the alleged acts are true -- i say if because you're innocent until proven guilty -- they shouldn't do that to you even though it's very clear from the actions and words and merrick garland and the prosecution wants to do nothing less than prosecute a former president, but there doesn't seem to be anything else they can be done but go forward. >> it's thrown in your face. how can you avoid these facts? this is federal tax fraud alleged clearly in black and white, and if this were brought to them by any complainant, any whistle-blower, there would be no way they can't pursue it. with that said, i'm sympathetic with merrick garland. he has two jobs now. he didn't want to sign on for both of these jobs, but he does.
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one is to prosecute crimes, treat people equally, and no one is above the law, and the other is to restore the legitimacy of the office. how do you do both things at the same time? it really is difficult. i agree with you that faced with these facts, he probably should pursue them, but at the same time, i'm very understanding of the desire not. >> yeah they're clearly pulled in both directions. rebecca roiphe, thank you very much for your time tonight. >> thank you. as we try to get a full picture of how hundreds of rioters were able to break into the capitol, there's by far the most detailed accounts so far. the footing, the attacks maps how they did it. evan hill of "the new york times" is going to explain how they did it next. is going to ew they did it next sadly, not anymore.
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for granted got tougher to do. thought surgery was my only option. turns out i was wrong. so when a hand specialist told me about nonsurgical treatments, it was a total game changer. like you, my hands have a lot more to do. learn more at today. of the capitol, the clearest picture we have comes from this incredible "new york times" video investigation that takes us through january 6 moment by moment. it shows exactly how the insurrectionists got inside the building. >> reporter: the capitol is now surrounded. rioters haven't made it inside yet, but around the time that the mob on the east pushed forward, rioters on the west
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were making a pivotal move. this scaffolding was erected for the upcoming inauguration of joe biden. it covers an area that gives access to an upper level and dozens of doors and windows. three police lines guard that roof, but on the ground there are so few to cover this access point several precede boys see the weakness. >> the stairs are right there. >> reporter: proud boys start fighting the police, and with others in the mob they push through the line. over several minutes it's a brutal fight on these steps.
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at one point the rioters are held back. but they make a final push up the flight of stairs. at the top they scuffle again with a small group of officers who give in after barely a minute. the mob now has direct access to capitol entrances. and hundreds more protesters below surge forward. it's utter mayhem and it's about to get worse. the scene is being filmed from countless angles allowing us to piece together moment by moment
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what comes next. proud boy dominic use as police shield he's stolen to bash in a window. and at 2:13 p.m. the capitol is breached. michael sparks, a trump supporter from kentucky is the first person inside. a believe seems unsure of what to do and backs off. sparks is followed by proud boys and other far right extremists, one carrying a confederate flag, another armed with a baseball bat. when rioters break open the locked doors, hundreds more rush in. >> the lead report ore f that incredible piece which you really, really have to watch, evan hill joins me. it's exceptional work. i don't even quite understand how it exists.
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first describe to me how you were able -- it feels like there was a documentary film crew that had been deployed to film this. that's not what happened. how did you get all this footage and then put it together? >> i think that what you said is true. it feels like we did have a documentary film crew there. we called it the most well filmed, most documented insurrection in history, and we were just able to take advantage of the hundreds of different phones. >> i think we may have lost evan there. evan's internet connection may have gone out there. i'll see if we can get him back. sometimes those flicker in and out, evan hill from "the new york times" investigation team. let's roll tape for a second.
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i want to show another moment from this documentary that was incredibly illuminaing to me. it's very upsetting, in involves the death of a woman who was among the crowd. you may have remembered, her name was rose ann boylen. ashli babbitt was shot and killed. sounds like we have evan hill back. evan, are you here? >> yeah, sorry about that, chris. >> no sweat. i'm going to go back to boylan in a second. but if you could tell us how you got all of this footage together. >> right. we took advantage of the fact that never before had you really seen rioters, insurrectionists filming themselves in real time from hundreds of different perspectives. that amount of information actually was almost too much for us, and one of the big peeves of the project was how do woe organize and put all those
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pieces of footage together. documenting that and spread sheeting that and logging it according to the time was half of the project and not more and we had to start putting together a narrative of how this actually occurred. >> one thing that becomes clear in your documentary that wasn't clear to me before is that there really is a relatively small organized cadre of folks, the proud boys, the oath keepers, who are at every key moment instigating and penetrating these defenses, and then that sort of swells the mob forward who then get kind of imbued with this kind of, you know, lost for conflict or whatever, but they're instigating at almost every key moment. >> that's right. i think the makeup of the mob was one of the interesting aspects of this investigation, which was that, yes, there were
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right wing groups in this crowd pushing forward, identifying police lines that were weak, stealing police shields, but the majority of the mob was made up with for lack of a better word radicalized trump supporters acting individually or making decisions individually, but then becoming part of a mob and being part of the proud boys, oath keepers, three percenters. >> i want to show you the footage of rosalyn boylan who was overrun and run over. >> rose ann boylan who has been swept up by qanon conspiracies has been swept up by the door, but amid the scrum, she collapses and lies beneath the mob. as the crowd sarcastically
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chants a black lives matter slogan, boylan's friend justin windchill tries to push her to safety. he screams for help. >> i need somebody. >> reporter: but instead fellow rioters trample over boylan and charge at the police again. boy lan will be pronounced dead at a local hospital in the evening. >> i found that so profoundly upsetting to see her friend there sort of yelling for help and also understanding the utter chaos and mayhem that would lead to that situation. >> yeah. i mean i worked on that one and it was one of the most upsetting things i had to watch during this investigation. you can imagine we saw hundreds of hours of pretty disturbing footage. rose ann boy lan was a 34-year-old from georgia who had gotten involved in qanon and had
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gone to the capitol and got in the tunnel in one of the most violent scenes. medical examiners said she died of an amphetamine overdose as well, but clearly the conditions of the mob contributed to it and her fellow rioters showed no effort to stop their attack on police while she was lying there on the ground. >> even hill from "the new york times" visual team. thank you so much for your work and for coming out tonight. all right. is there still a glimmer of hope on voting rights if democrats are able to budge on voter riding? we're talking about a franchise for a broken senate next. a fran for a broken senate next
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act in a 3-6 decision. that's after john roberts gutted the other provisional act back in 2013. those two sections, section 2 and section 5 were the most important ways to enforce changing voter laws before and after the fact and they've both been significantly weakened. now the need for veteran voting legislation is needed more than ever. there's a question whether any grand bargain is possible. republicans have voted to protect against fraud in exchange for voter floor protection and access. a couple of weeks ago we saw a glimmer o whatever it might look like when you saw joe manchin propose a set of changes for the voting people act. when voting rights activist stacy abraks changed those endorsements, her endorsement was enough to kill the bill for the republicans, which leaves in
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mind the question, is there anything present here? we have our guests with us. maria, let me start with you. i sometimes think if you could sit down in an abstract universe, you could consider a universe in which you could pencil out a big bargain on national voting standards, but to me it shows in a practical manner that's not possible. do you think that's too pessimistic on my part? >> chris, originally you're supposed to have two different parties that come to the table and negotiate in good faith. we already have mitch mcconnell saying he doesn't want to support any part of biden's
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agenda. sadly biden's agenda is to look at the full franchise of all americans. he's trying to continue to negotiate with a body that was very much in that state in the 1990s but has anticipated backing into everyone's corner and when it comes specifically to voting rights, they have demonstrated time and again they want to gut someone's access to the booth. they're preventing students from voting. why? just among latino youth, you're going to have a quarter million more eligible voters in time to kick abbott out. this is so political. we're talking about the scaffolding democracy, not the democratic party. that's where we need more republicans to come to the table. sadly manchin has to have a
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wakeup call and says he has to side with the party. we're talking about the institution, not his party. >> part of the madness here is because of the rioting in 2014, they made section 5 inopera active. they have to check for clearances before they go into effect. in absence of that we have hand-to-hand combat fights over every change. if you read the change, yes, maybe there are some small changes that are not driven by animus, but the entire point of having that bureaucracy in place to check it was so that we don't have to have these fights. now that's gone. we do have to have these fights, and i don't think republicans want us to stop having them, i guess is my point. >> yeah. one of the important things to remember about the arizona restriction voting laws that
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were upheld by the supreme court is arizona admitted the reason why they were doing this was to influence the election. they admitted that these restrictions disproportion at ly affected people of color. they can't win if they let everybody vote. this is actually an existential crisis for the republican party because if everybody votes, the republicans can't win. the republicans have abandoned building any kind of coalition beyond their white supremacist base. so if that white supreme sis base is diluted in any way, they have no plans to expand their race or policies to appeal, so this is their way. this is their only way to win
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elections. it's by keeping people away from the voting. >> well, but let me just respond to that and come to you. i think the republicans think that about themselves. it kind of hilariously is a poor judgment on themselves that they think that. look at 2020. historically high turnout, right? the republicans didn't get blown out. in fact, there were four congressional seats in iowa. they won all four. a few were supposed to be tight seats. but they eave rushed to put in these restrictions. it's a fairly competitive party. i think they have less favor in themselves than even the outcomes in the election should suggest. >> i sauls always said if republicans could not be racist. they could get some votes if they tried.
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they don't want to try. they don't want to try and go out and get these votes of color. they just want to have to play within the box set by their white supremacist base, so that's why they're doing these things that they're doing really effectively. >> when you step back, the thing that steps back, you've got this for the people act. you couldn't get manchin on board. stacey abrams says, great, let's do it. and then, oh, it's the stacey abrams bill, you can't touch that. even if you got rid of the filibuster and passed this thing, they're sitting in the wings absolutely hacking it to death. it's like what are we doing here? >> indeed. let me include both sides of the
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argument. elie's right they can't change the rules. but look. the key fact is this. it's been 31 years since a republican president won the white house with the popular vote at the first attempt, right? that is a long time. they know that. they're not stupid. they cannot win the white house. forget congress, the house, which also has gerrymandering, the senate which has disproportionality. they know they can't win the top office very easily. to come to your point about manchin in the senate, the idea that they're going to reject it. number two, i don't know, i said joe manchin's name more times in 2021 than i've said. like bernie sanders, i'm fed up with saying joe manchin's name and kerstin sinema's name. i don't get it.
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we were told when they try to do a deal, when they bring something bipartisan and it fails, they will see the light. well, we saw it on s 1 where manchin got onboard. i'm no fan of joe manchin, but the stuff he offered was reasonable, a building block, better than nothing, and yet he couldn't get a single republican on board. even if he says the john lewis bill was more important, he has one person on born, lisa murkowski, as far as i can see. they're never going to have their realization. forget the republicans in good faith. i mentioned this on the show before. kerstin sinema, 2010. there's a video that's gone viral online. she said we must forget about the full option of 60. we must use it for good. that's the kyrsten sinema i agree with, 11 years out of date. one thing i would say important, joe biden.
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let's not let joe biden get away with it. sorry, the president has a responsibility here. it's been four months since he said he supports it wrchlt is the bully pulpit? where is he using his leadership to say get rid of this filibuster? >> if it's going to happen, maria, and, again, this is where, you know, this all comes down to, these sort of procedural questions, substantive ones, it comes down to. this biden is going to have to take the reins on it. >> he's deployed the vice president to go from town to town. she was recently in las vegas to talk about this. i would share with you we're on the verge of losing our democracy if we do not see americans talking to members of congress and filling up the town halls and saying i demand it. sadly most of our legislators do not find courage unless it's the people talking to them.
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this is where they are. to your point, chris, this was the largest participation in our nation's history when it came to the voting booth. why throw that to the wayside? they're paying attention. get them involved because access to the voting booth is one of the few things that americans across political stripes actually agree with. >> yeah, it's true. maria theresa kumar. >> well, recently, right? we had 100 years straight up of ignoring the amendment. >> we have to believe the majority of americans will believe it, and this is a starting point. >> and the worrisome thing here is there's radicalization against it, right? you had the voting registration act. roberts strikes it down and susan collins is saying things like we don't need federal oversight of elections, r. it's like, yes, we do.
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that's an old idea. thank you all. >> thank you. next up t supreme court ruling that harkens back to our very first night on the air, the new state of play for college sports after this. new state of play for college sports after this. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have
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the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage so we don't have to worry about it" conversation. so you're calling about the $9.95 a month plan -from colonial penn? -i am. we put it off long enough. we are getting that $9.95 plan, today. (jonathan) is it time for you to call about the $9.95 plan? i'm jonathan from colonial penn life insurance company. sometimes we just need a reminder not to take today for granted. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance starting at just $9.95 a month. there are no health questions so you can't be turned down for any health reason. the $9.95 plan is colonial penn's number one most popular whole life plan. options start at just $9.95 a month. that's less than 35 cents a day. your rate can never go up. it's locked in for life. call today for free information. and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner, so call now. (soft music)
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sports is common. i did a story on it after kevin ware suffered a devastating injury playing basketball for the louisville cardinals. >> if a player were a student athlete they were not an employee and not comped if they got injured on the fields which means ncaa players are the uncompensated employees, players who literally risk their limbs
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on their product. it forced them. last week it cleared the way to earn money off their careers. i'm joined now by someone else who's been reporting on justice for as long as we have. dave, first walk us through the changes which allowed minor compensation for scholarships and the decision that the ncaa made. wlan explain what they do. >> the ncaa has adopted a series of rules. they're looking to codify it.
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ncaa is listed as a non-profit. if you want to hire a player to be the voice in your small town, we've seen it like the husky dog who's a spokesperson for pet products. it's all very wholesome. you can make money on your name, image, or likeness, but at the same time, ncaa has put down restrictions to say we're going to take a close eye, and make sure there's no pay for play. it a way it's always been play for pay. you're playing for the purpose of getting a scholarship and
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playing for the pros. at the end of the day, at the very least, the gutter economy of the college sports is at the very least out from under the table and on the table where everybody can see it. >> that's a great point because the other thing is there has been play for pay and someone's been busted and they can't play and i have no money and this was $5,000 that my family needed and i'm uncompensated while you're broadcasting this for millions of dollars. for me, i remember covering medical marijuana campaigns, right? and the opponents of it would be this is a slippery slope. these advocates are trying to get their food in the door, next thing there will be marijuana everywhere. that's exactly what happened. we passed marijuana and there's weed everywhere and i feel like we're on that road now with player compensation.
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like there's no going back. >> right. exactly. college sports will still be college sports. dabo swinney who makes $10 million a year said he would quit if name, likeness, or image ever became rule of the land. now he says, hey, this looks great. chest thumping. it's similar to medical marijuana. we're all waking up the next day. there's no difference except the world is a little more just than before. >> name, image, and likeness and this working paper basically went through the numbers, right? given the totality of the numbers forecast you compensated the number, they estimate if they all split 50% of the revenue equally, the players
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only get 50%, each football player will receive 350,000 per year and each basketball player would earn nearly half a million per year. that puts in perspective the amount of money we're talking about here. >> exactly. once you move away all the confetti and what not, what we're talking about is the organized theft of black wealth. when we're talking about the revenue producing sports of the ncaa, we're talking about football and men's basketball and these are the two sports unlike other sports that center the black body, black talents and center black players, and so it has to be looked at from that particular lens so we can understand exactly who's being cheated out of the money here and who is actually deserving of a fair share of the billions that come into what is from a ratings perspective second only to the nfl in terms of the revenue that's brought in. >> yeah. those numbers blew my mind when i looked at them, because it gives you a sense of how much
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money we're talking about. dave zirin has a new book coming out called "the kaepernick effect: taking the knee." looking forward to that. that is it for "all in." good night. "all in." good night [swords clashing] - had enough? - no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.
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more bodies recovered in suvgside, florida, as crews recover them before elsa. plus, concern over how far vaccination rates have fallen. what will the president say when he makes another pitch for americans to get vaccinated? today marks six months since the attack on the u.s. capitol. the question is how does law enforcement doing when it comes to bringing those involved to justice? it's "way to


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