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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 5, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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welcome back to a special extended independence day themed addition of all in.
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i'm chris hayes. the case against the trump organization has chief financial officer allen weisselberg has charges and indictment and allegations. obviously, it's not the sum total of what prosecutors know, and we haven't read the defense. but if the allegations in the indictment are true in the context they are presented it sure seems like a pretty black and white picture of tax fraud. not some incidental bookkeeping ever but a plan that was systematically engineered over the years to create an alternate hidden means of composition that evaded taxes. historically, the smoking gun of tax fraud, any fraud, is the two sets of books, right? anytime a business or has different financial records you've likely found fraud, right? because why would you need to? it's telling one set of people like tax collectors lies about your finances while you are keeping another accurate set of records hidden and in order to keep those lies straight you need to sell some books and
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that is exactly what prosecutors alleged that they had evidence of here. just one example of many. prosecutors say, quote, the payment of tuition expenses for weisselberg's family members constituted employee compensation and taxable income on weisselberg and was treated as part of weisselberg's annual compensation in internal record with the corporation. however, an indirect tuition payment was not included on weisselberg's top two or otherwise reported a federal state or local tax authorities. no income tax held in connection to a tuition payment. so the trump board will have allen weisselberg and they said one thing and the tuition payments and the weisselberg and the company and the tax authority something else. these charges against the trump organization cfo of course were announced last week. and since then donald trump's been out doing the thing that are benefiting from throughout
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the years which is publicly stating his crimes so that they would not be secret scandals that were uncovered. remember, 2016 famously in front of cameras and microphones asked russia to hurt his political opponent. russia, if you're listening i hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are listening. russia, please hack my opponent. russia did do that. and pressuring ukraine to investigate joe biden's public knowledge he went to the white house lawn and did it publicly. he called for ukraine china ten fast to get the bidens. he's doing it again, kind of. arguing at a rally over the weekend that, look, maybe committed some crimes but come on. people like us are not supposed to get prosecuted. >> they go after good hardworking people for not paying taxes on a company car. company car. you didn't pay tax on the car, or a company apartment. you used an apartment because you needed an apartment because you have to travel too far from where your house is but you
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didn't pay taxes. or education for your grandchildren. i don't even know -- you -- does anyone know the answer to that stuff? okay? but they indict people for that. >> we have had a line about using a company apartment because he lived so far away from the office doesn't quite lay with a crowd. meanwhile his family was lying about the scope of the case in arguing it was about quote, fringe benefits to sympathetic coats on trump tv. >> go after somebody after fringe employment benefits? is that really with the da is focused on as little girls are getting shot in the middle times square? go after a corporate vehicle and a corporate apartment? >> they want to go after the cfo of the trump organization for free parking or something like that. >> the best they can come up with with us a corporate car for the cfo of the trump organization. >> you spent millions of dollars -- they reviewed 3 million documents and countless number of ground terry hours,
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countless number of witnesses and they got a guy because he got a corporate car and didn't declare on his tax return. >> ok keep in mind here they're not saying you have it all wrong at all. it's them saying, how dare you prosecute someone who is evading taxes on millions of dollars in income? that's nothing to us. people get prosecuted go to jail for this all the time. i have news for you. you can ask pete rose after failing to report and come from memorabilia sales, personal appearances. singer lauryn hill spent three months in prison for refusing to pay over million in taxes. you can ask former congressman michael grimm who went to prison after he was accused four under reporting wages in revenue while running an upper east side restaurant and centrally keeping two sets of records. does that sound familiar? now look. there is an inescapable political context to all of this. there's people on both sides of the prosecution or politicians
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and everyone knows who donald trump is but the if the case of what is legit is true, -- got this right when he wrote, being connected to a controversial political figure shouldn't send you to jail. it shouldn't get you off the hook either. david cay johnston is a pulitzer prize-winning journalist whose prompted 15 prosecutions. -- trump, one lover hungry pizza thieves, another for me. and he joins me now. let me start with this idea of the background context. you know, i think the argument that trump and his like are trying to make is this is ridiculous nobody ever get snow for this. but i, as a reporter, get covered for people who get nailed for less than this. what's say you? >> well, we don't prosecute very many tax crimes in this country. or 140 cases were actually
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separate for prosecution by the justice department last year according to the newest irs payment. a country of 330 million people, 440 is not very many cases. that said, many of these are legal source cases which is one applies here. this isn't about drug dealing or bribery. having said that the argument that this is nothing 1.7 $6 million is 34 years of income to the typical american worker according to the latest data of social security. that's 34 years of working. but you don't have to report income on it. gee, i wish i didn't have to report for the last 44 years would i make. >> right, exactly. and there's also this sort of two sets of books part of this is intriguing to me because it speaks to -- they have actual tangible evidence, right? that this was a fraudulent enterprise. it also makes you wonder what
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else they had access to. >> well interesting louis allen weisselberg didn't get a raise for a number of years which says a lot about donald trump and he doesn't take good care of the cfo. but keeping two sets of books as you said is the classic indication of a fraud. and i've said from the very beginning that this is a garden-variety tax fraud case. and you'll notice there's no denying what's going on. i do think the most interesting thing that's been said so far is what donald said at his rally saturday night. does anybody know with the law is here? donald trump claims to be the greatest experts on taxes in the history of the world. >> it's also the case, i have to say, that everyone knows. everyone knows. if you're compensated by your employer that you have to report an income, this is a very obvious and basic thing. and obviously allen weisselberg knew that. and obviously the trump people knew that. obviously everyone in the
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organization that otherwise they wouldn't have gotten through such lengths to hide it. >> right, and the next question to ask is, okay, who else has not been invited who could be indicted? there was an unindicted coconspirator in the indictment very likely he is jeff comey who is brought before the grand jury and testified in the new york state law. if you come before a grand jury you have immunity, transactional immunity for whatever he testify about. he's the controller of the organization. logically, would be a person involved in the criminal scheme. >> what's do you think the sort of stakes are here? just zooming out for a second pass this. because we started with you talking about how few tax crimes get prosecuted. and one of sort of the themes of the trump error to me is how much wrongdoing has gone undeterred and an investigated
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and prosecuted at the highest levels of american life for so long and trump being a kind of ultimate manifestation of that if you just let people get away with things forever >> well, we just reported and pc report that if you make $10 million or more of having a completed audit in 2019 where one in 700 down from one in 20 i think it was under obama in his first full year -- >> wow. >> the amount of extra taxes owed by this class of people who together make a trillion dollars almost an average 30 million bucks each is five point $4 million. basically under donald trump, enforcement of the tax law at the top has marginally stopped and at the same time as i write my piece, there's a man who was sentenced to 50 years, a hungry homeless man, 50 years for
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stealing a slice of pizza and the u.s. supreme court has set sentences like that are reasonable. donald trump is part of a group of people who think they're special that they're above the law, they don't have to play by these rules. >> the new york times points out that there are echoes of the way his father did business in this. and the case against trump's company on taxes. the first criminal prosecution involved was back to fred trump 16,135 purchase of boilers in the 19 nineties which he sort of allowed other people to take a cut of as tax compensation and a whole bunch of corner cunning that was laid bare and the times investigation that appears to have been started long before donald trump took over the company. >> that's why it's important to recognize that this is the first indictment. it is not the last indictment. and there are likely going to
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be others and if allen was getting these deals, then what kind of deals were don junior and eric and ivanka and donald himself getting so under report or miss report their income? and we just haven't seen those yet. >> david cay johnston thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> rebecca roiphe is a former man that district attorney who brought charges against the sea of oh -- she's now a professor of law at new york law school and she joins me now rebecca, i want to start with what your legal advice would be if you are retains by, say, the trump family about how much you should be talking about the case slash essentially conceding the underlying facts and violation of law and public utterances. >> you know, i would try. i would try to not speak out on these issues and i think part of the problem is the trump in
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his family have done very well in the public at spinning things so that there is a legal case and there's a case before the public and the problem now is the legal case has proceeded to the point of an indictment and so those words, the words of a top official within his company can be used against the company itself and ultimately of trump himself or to be indicted those words could be used against him. so he needs to be very careful now in a way, this rhetoric that has worked in a public relations type of white might really backfire in the court. >> well and it's also worked, also in public relations, i think it's worked in legal theories as well. i think bullying and being sort of intractable often has paid legal dividends in terms of mueller and whether he would testify. and also you have to recognize there's gonna be a new manhattan district attorney and laetitia james is a politician. i think he thinks he can rattle
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the cage as much as needs be. there's no such thing as law. everything is just power, intimidation, and politics. >> yes, i 100% agree with that i think you're right. one of the things that's really effective is this constant allegation that these things are politically motivated because what happens is the people who are sitting there and keeping their heads down just trying to follow the facts and the law have a really hard time because not only do they have to do that but they also have to convince the public that they are not doing this, you know, for political reasons and so you are caught in this really really difficult moment where you have to do two things which is bring a really solid case and address this rhetoric. and in some ways, i think this indictment is extremely clever. i have no idea of this was their intention but one of the things that's really really brilliant about it is that it does address the question, subtly, and implicitly that this is what is motivating it. it doesn't seem to be politically motivated. one, because it is so solid. and to, because it's not a
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small case. it's not a tiny case that's being brought on fringe benefits and you can say that until the red in the face and it just isn't in those 25 pages. it's clearly, as you said at the beginning of the show, a very significant tax fraud. it may not be that these cases abroad very often but if ran across this kind of evidence and didn't bring this case than they should be tossed out of office. this is exactly with the manhattan da's office doesn't they're not gonna audit books and records of every company. if they're pursuing something else and they find these kind of tax fraud they have to prosecute and so that really makes it such that it's very hard, very hard for them to credibly get out there and say that this is been being done because of who the president -- who the former president is. rather than just what he did with these crimes and you know, if they can be moved to the facts they're pretty damning. >> you know, you raised the fact that these offices don't
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want to be pulled into the political thick in here and i can't help but think about the federal government here i mean obviously if the facts as alleged are true, and again, if innocent until proven guilty there's massive tax evasion here and we're like the federal government should not just like, and, you got two and the attorney general merrick garland and i think a huge part of the justice department wants nothing less than to be in the position of prosecuting former president. but it does seem like it seems like there's no problem for them as the case goes forward. oh, completely. it's like being thrown in their face, how do you know these kinds of facts? this is federal tax fraud, alleged clearly in black and white. if this were brought to them by any whistleblower, would be no way they can pursue it. that said, i am sympathetic with merrick garland. he has two jobs now. he didn't really want to sign
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on for both these jobs, but he does. one is to prosecute crimes, and to treat all people equally. no person is above the law. the other is to restore the legitimacy of this office. how do you do both of those two things at the same time? it really is difficult. i agree with you that, based on these facts, he should probably pursue them. i am very understanding of the desire not to. >> yeah. yes, they are clearly pulled in both directions over their main justice i think on this. rebecca roe free, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> as we try to get a full picture of how hundreds of rioters were able to break into the capital, a new investigation of the new york times provided a detailed account so far. footage of the account, maps of the federal building to show how things went so wrong. evan hills, one of the time evident to produce that peace will join me to explain how it happened, next. happened, next .
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the capital, declares because we have what's actually happened comes from this incredible new york times video investigation. it existed the events of january 6th moment by moment. it shows exactly how the insurrectionists got inside the building. [noise] the capital is now surrounded. rioters haven't made it inside yet, but around the time that
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the mob in these two moves forward, riders in the west we're making a pivotal move. this scaffolding was erected for the integration of joe biden, it gives access to an upper level and dozens of doors and windows. three police lines guards them by and ground level, officers are so overwhelmed, that just a few covered the crucial access point. several proud boys see the weakness. >> proud boys start fighting the police, and with others in the mob, they push through. [noise] over several minutes, it's a brutal fight on the steps.
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at one point, the riders are held back. but they make a final push up the flight of stairs. at the top this scuffle with a small group of officers. who given after barely a minute. the mob now has direct access to capital entrances, -- >> i can't believe this is reality. we accomplished this ship. >> they searched forward, it is utter mayhem, it's about to get worse. the scene is being filmed from
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countless angles, allowing us to pete together -- piece together what comes next. >> proud boys dominic pezzola uses a police shields stolen, to bash in a window. bash in a window. at 2:13 pm, the capital is breached. michael starr -- sparks, a trump supporter from kentucky is the first person inside. a police officer seems unsure of what to do, and backs off. sparks is followed by proud boys, and other far-right extremists. one carrying a confederate flag, another armed with a baseball bat. when rioters break open the lock doors, hundreds more russian. >> one of the leading reporters of that incredible piece which you have to watch, evan hills. he joins me now. evan, first of all, it's
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exceptional work. i don't even quite understand how it exists. maybe first, just described to me, how are you able -- it feels like there was a documentary film crew, that had deployed, to film this. but that is not would happen. how did you get all of this footage and then put it together? >> i think that what you said is true. it feels like we did have a documentary sewn through there. we called it the most well filmed, well-documented insurrection in history and, we were just able to take advantage of the hundreds of different phones. -- >> i think we may have lost evan there. evans internet connection may have gone out there. i will see if we could get him back. sometimes they flicker in and out. evan hill from the new york times, divisional investigation team.
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let's just roll tape for a second. i want to show another moment from this documentary that was incredibly illuminating to me. it is very upsetting. and involves the death of a woman who was among the crowd. you may have remembered you heard about folks that had died in the crowd, ashley babbitt who was shot and killed, it sounds like we have evan hill back. evan, are you there? >> yes. sorry about that, chris. >> no sweat. i will go back to the story of roseanne boyle in a second. if you could continue telling us, how did you get all this footage together? >> right. we called that basically the most well documented insurrection history. we took advantage of the fact that never before had you really seen rioters, insurrectionists, filming themself in realtime from hundreds of different perspectives. that amount of information, actually was almost too much for us. one of the big heaves of this project was, how do we organize
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and put all these pieces of footage together and documenting that, spread shooting, that logging it according to its time and where it was filmed was half of this project, if not more. then of course, we had to start putting together a narrative that actually occurred. >> one thing that becomes clear in your documentary that wasn't clear to me before, is that there really is a relatively small organize amount of folks, the proud boys, oath keepers, who are at every key moments, instigating, and penetrating these defenses. then, that sort of swells the mob forward who kind of get imbued with this kind of, you know, lost four conflict or whatever. they are instigating and almost every key moment. >> that's right. i think the makeup of the mob was one of the interesting aspects of this investigation which was that, yes, there were
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very well organized right wing extremist groups in this crowd, at the key moments, pushing forward, identifying locations in the police line that were weak. sealing police shields. but actually, the majority of the mob was made up for lack of a better world -- word trump supporters who are radicalized and making decision to become part of a mob and being rallied by extremist groups such as the proud boys, oath keepers, and three percenters. >> i wanna show the footage of roseanne boyland of her losing her life, she was trampled to death. i never saw what really happened to her unless i saw this section of the documentary you put together. >> roseanne boyle, a trump supporter who's been swept up by qanon's -- conspiracies is moving towards the door. amid this gram, she collapses and is lying unconscious beneath the mob.
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as the crowd chants a black lives matter chant sarcastically -- >> i need somebody, bed. >> instead, fellow rioters tribe -- trample over boylan and charge at the police again. boil and will be pronounced dead at a local hospital in the evening. >> i found that so profoundly upsetting to see her friend there, sort of yelling for help, and also understanding the utter chaos and man that would lead to that situation. >> yeah. i worked on that one, and it was one of the most upsetting things i had to watch during this investigation. you could imagine, if we saw hundreds of hours a pretty disturbing footage. roseanne boylan was a 34-year-old from rural -- georgia who had gone to the
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capital, you could see her getting stepped into the tunnel, which became one of the worst scenes of violence that day. when she emerged, she was unconscious. the medical examiners said she died of an infected man overdose, we investigated that as well. the conditions of that mob contributed to it, clearly. her fellow riders really show no effort to stop their attack on police while she was lying there on the ground. >> >> evan hill evan ho from the new york times visual team. thank you so much for your work and coming on tonight. >> if there is still a glimmer of hope on voting rights? we'll talk about a crucial stretch for spending the franchise for a broken senate next. at next try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein.
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i had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. c call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. last week, the six conservative ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ republican appointees on the u.s. supreme court vacant what remains the voting rights act in a 6 to 3 decision and that comes after conservative
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majority led by john roberts gutted the other big central provision in the act back in 2013. those two sections, section two and section five, for the most important ways of enforcing changes to voting laws either before the factor after the fact and they both have been significantly weekend. now, the need for federal legislation is stronger than ever. there's a question about whether there's any conceivable universe in which some kind of grand bargain on voting is possible in which democrats create provisions that republicans push to, quote unquote, protects on fraud, like voter i.d. in exchange for guaranteed flora voter protections and access. a couple of weeks ago, we saw a glimmer of what that might look like when you remember a senator joe manchin proposed a change to the for the people act voting bill that did include some voter i.d. provisions. one voting rights advocate stacey abrams endorse those changes the endorsement itself was enough to kill the bill in the minds of republicans which leads to the question, is there anything to negotiate here?
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maria teresa kumar's president of voter latino, elie mystal his latest piece is -- mehdi hasan the host of the many houston show and air is on msnbc on sunday at 8 pm. maria let me start with you. sometimes i think if you can sit down in an abstract universe you could consider a universe in which you can pencil out a big kind of grand bargain on national voting standards. but to meet the, mansion experience shows in a practical matter it's not possible. do you think that's too pessimistic on my part? >> chris, originally you're supposed to have two different parties that come at the table and negotiate in good faith. but we already have mitch mcconnell saying he doesn't want to support any part of biden's agenda. sadly, part of biden's agenda is to ensure the full franchise of all americans and that is
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where the rubble lies. manchin is trying to continue to negotiate with a body that is very much in that state in the 1990s but that has dissipated backing into everybody's corner and when it comes to specifically voting rights, the republicans have demonstrated time and again that even in certified, fair, non fraudulent elections they want a got someone's access to the booth. i'll take texas as an example. texas is the hardest place to vote. full stop, chris. they are just passing legislation right now to prevent students from voting. why? because just. among latino youth you're gonna have a quarter million eligible voters in time to kick up and out of the register them so this is so political and we're talking about scaffolding democracy and not the democratic party. and that is when we need more republicans to come to the table. but sadly, manchin also has to have -- so we have to see the
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institution and not his party. >> well, and it's also the case and part of the madness here at le is because in 2013 they struck down section for the voting rights is makes section five known operative which is preclearance and the department of justice before they go into effect. and as i said before, they have these hand to hand combat of every change and you know if you read the voting rights opinion about the arizona case which was after the fact under section two, it was like yes, maybe there are some small changes that are disproportionate effect that are not driven by animus but the entire point of having that bureaucracy in place to check it was so that we don't have to have these fights. now that's gone. we do have to have these fights and i don't think republicans want has to stop having them is my point. >> yeah, no. one really important thing to remember about the voting rights laws that are upheld by the supreme court is that
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arizona admitted that the reason that they're doing this is to influence the election. they admitted that these restrictions disproportionately affected people of color. the supreme court admitted that these restrictions disproportionately affected people of color and they all said that's fine. and why do they say that's fine? because they can't win if they let everybody vote. this is the thing we have to get about voting rights, is that this is actually an existential crisis for the republican party. because of everybody votes, the republicans can't win. they can't abandon building any kind of coalition beyond their white supremacist -- if that white supremacist space is diluted in any way, republicans have no strategy to expand their base and have no policies to appeal to people beyond their white supremacist base and so this is like their way. this is their only way to win elections. it's by keeping people away
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from the voting. >> but let me just respond to that and i'll come to you mehdi. i think the republicans think that about themselves, which i think is kind of hilariously a poor judgment on themselves that they think that. but i also think -- i keep saying this all the time. look at 2020. historically how it turned out, right? the republicans didn't get blown out. in fact, there were four congressional seats in iowa and they won all four. they were supposed to be tight seats and they kept them. iowa is a very white state, but they've done the same thing everywhere. they rushed to put in these restrictions. the fact of the matter is it's a fairly competitive party even under conditions of high turnout. i think they have less faith in themselves than even the outcomes in the election should suggest. >> look, i've always said if republicans could just not be races for like four consecutive years there's a lot of black and brown votes out for them. there is a lot of them that support basic authoritarianism in a police state. they can get those votes if they tried.
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it's that they don't want to try. maybe that's that's where that internal self delusion becomes reality. they don't even want to try to go out and get those votes of color. they just want to have the plate within the box set by the white supremacist base and so that is why they're doing these things that they're doing really effectively. >> and then when you step back, mehdi, the thing that's upsetting about this moment i think you and i are on the same page on this peril stakes here. you have this for the people act, right? you can get manchin on board. and then you can get him on board with a compromise, stacey abrams says it's great, let's do this. and then all the republicans say oh it's the stacey abrams bill. we can't touch that. but even if you get rid of the filibuster as elie pointed out, they're waiting for absolutely hacking to death. it's like what are we doing here? >> and it. let me just address one quick point that you and elie made a minute ago. i think that elie is right that
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they can't win without changing these rules. you're right that they're more competitive than they think. but the thing is it's been 31 years since a republican president won the white house with the popular vote with the first attempt. that is a long time. they know that, they're not stupid. they cannot win the white house. forget congress, the house which all sorts of gerrymandering. the senate which has this proportionality. they know they can't win the top office very easily. to come back to your point about manchin in the senate, number one the idea that they're gonna reject the compromise because stacey abrams's name is on. it goes back to elie's point today even stop being races for four days, let alone four years. one is joe manchin gonna have his awakening, as maria teresa mentioned. -- i am, like bernie sanders, i am fed up with saying joe manchin 's name and kirsten cinema's name but i just don't understand what it will take for them -- when they try to do a deal when
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when they do something bipartisan they will do and see the light and we saw on as one where the reasonable compromise and i'm no fan of joe manchin but the stuff that he offered was reasonable and it was a building block for something, better than nothing. and yet he couldn't get a single republican on board. even if the john lewis bill that he says is the more important build in the for the people act, he has one republican on board. lisa murkowski, for all i can see. so i don't know with you to have the realization. the point is that they're never gonna have that realization because it's never been about a good faith argument on their part. forget the republicans in good faith. i mentioned on the show before, kyrsten sinema in 2010, there's a video gone viral online. she's saying in 2010 that we must forget about the false option of 60. we must use budget reconciliation for good as the republicans did for evil. that's the kyrsten sinema i agree with, 11 years out of date. so i don't know what's going to take. one thing i'll say, chris, is joe biden. let's not joe biden get away
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with this. the president has a responsibility here in has been nearly four months since he spoke with george stephanopoulos and -- i've heard nothing about the president. where is he using his leadership to say get rid of this filibuster? >> yeah, and i think if it's going to happen, maria, and this is where it all comes down to is the sort of procedural questions which are actually substantive ones and with mehdi's point, i agree with him, biden's gonna have to take the reins on it. >> well, he's also appointed and deployed the vice president to go from town to town. he was recently in las vegas in talking specifically about this but i will share with you, we are on the verge of losing our democracy. we do not see americans talking and calling members of congress and filling up the town halls this august and saying i demand it because sadly most of our legislators say they do not find courage unless it's the people talking to them. and this is where we are. to your point, chris, this is
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the largest participation in the nation's history when it comes to voting rights. why throw that to the wayside? we have been engaged public. they understand how the system works, get them involved. because getting them to the voting booth is the few things that the stripes actually agree with. >> yeah, it is true. >> maria, teresa kumar. >> well, recently, right? >> we had 100 years have showed up with ignoring the filibuster. >> we have to understand 1 million of americans believe it. that's the starting point. >> right. >> creating that opportunity. the worrying thing here is that there is radicalization around it. the voting act reauthorizing it it was voted by mitch mcconnell, robert should sit down, now it's like susan collins seeing things like we don't need federal oversight of elections. well, yes, we do. plainly, that's an old saying.
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thank you all for being here. the supreme court ruling that goes back to our enforcement on the air. the new state of play for college sports after this. >>
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the scandal of college sports, which earns billions of dollars well paying people nothing is an old scandal. i did a commentary on and on the very first addition of all in with chris hayes, april 31st 2013 after kevin where played had a devastating injury playing for the cardinals. >> if a player was a stern athlete, they were not, by definition, an employee, and air go not qualified for workers comp if they got hurt on the field. that means and see double players, and see a deal bully propaganda and uncommon said players of the ncaa cartel. players who literally we saw them risk their limbs on the court to produce a product that is immensely profitable.
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>> that was over eight years ago. it took all that time, plus the supreme court decision to finally force the ncaa to make some changes. last week, they cleared the way for so cold student athletes to at least earn some money off to college careers. they still will not be paid for playing. i'm joined now by someone else who's been reporting on this for as long as we have. dave's iran, and sports at history for the nation. walk us through what the changes are both pursuing to the supreme court decision, which allowed some minor compensation through scholarships, then the decision the ncaa made. explain with those dew. >> first of all, the supreme court decision which brett kavanaugh sounded like bill hey would, it laid out the parameters for what we are seeing right now from the ncaa the ncaa has adopted a series of rules. still hoping for the federal government to come in and codify even greater. mark amber, he makes $4 million
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a year and the ncaa is listed as a non profit. they have said, players can basically accept compensation from an outside source. if you want to hire a player to be the voice in your small town, for the auto parts industry, or we are already seeing some interesting things like a player who went viral with his husky dog, and he's now a spokesperson for some pet products. it's all very wholesome it's companies reaching out to players to say, you can make money based on your name, image, likeness, but at the same time, they are also the ncaa putting down restrictions that we are gonna take a very close eye to make sure this isn't being manipulated, to bring recruits to a particular area and we will make sure there is no pay for play, key word that the ncaa aa says over and over. there is no pay for play. it is all words by different name. this is pay for play, in a way it's always been like that you're paying for the playing of a scholarship, playing for the. pros there's a lot of
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philosophy in here and at the end of the day, the gutter economy of college sports is at the very least, out from under the table, and on the table where everybody can see it. >> great point. the other thing, there has been pay for play, four through different relatives, then someone gets busted for than they are disgraced and they can't play it's like, well, i have no money. you know, this was $5,000 that my family member needed, and i'm uncomplicated while your broadcasting this for billions of dollars. to me, when i think of here, i remember covering medical marijuana campaigns, right? the opponents i would be like this is a slippery slope that advocates are trying to get the foot in the door. next thing you know, marijuana everywhere. they were. right that's exactly what happened. >> yeah. >> it was marijuana, wheat everywhere. i sort of feel we are on that road now with player compensation. there is no going back, it's gonna be hard to stop arriving at the logical and point.
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>> exactly. college sports is still going to be college sports. the world will not end. several coaches, including -- who makes $10 million a year, has said he would quit if name, age, and likeness became the rule of the land. he asked for con -- comments he said it looks great, no problem. a lot of chest thumping about how it would destroy the system. at the end of the day, it is similar to medical marijuana where all waking up the next day, no different except the world is a little more just than it was the day before. >> just to give a sense, so the likeness which is benefited in being able to sell your likeness or endorsement something that not being paid to play but, this national bureau of economic 2020 working paper, it basically went through the numbers, right? given the totality of the numbers, if you compensated players in a sort of fair and equitable way they said they will split 50% of revenue equally. players only get 50% of revenue,
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each football player gets 350,000 a year niche basketball player nearly half 1 million per year. it really puts in perspective the amount of money we are talking about. >> exactly. once you move away all the confetti and whatnot, we are really talking about the organized theft of black wealth. when you are talking about the revenue producing sports of the ncaa, we are really talking about football, and men's basketball. these are the two sports, unlike the other ones on college campuses that center the black body, center black talents, and sent to black players. so, it has to be looked out from that particular lens so we can understand who is being cheated out of the money here, and who is actually deserving of a fair share of the billions that come into, what is from a ratings perspective, second only to the nfl in terms of the revenue brought in. >> those numbers blew my mind when i looked at them. it gives you a sense of just how much money we are talking
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about. dave's iran, he's gonna book coming out called the kaepernick effect, taking a knee, changing the world. that should be a great read. thank you so much, dave. >> thank you. >> that is all in, for this holiday evening. we will be back at 8 pm eastern tomorrow night. good night.
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in the next, not one, but two hours. we begin tonight with a nation divided. on one side, we have president biden calling for unity, championing the country's progress on beating the pandemic. >> today, all across this nation we can say with confidence that america is coming back together. [applause] history tells us that when we stand together, when we unite in common cause, when we see ourselves, not as

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