tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC June 30, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
today it was the biggest news day that we've had >> today was the in a long biggest news day we've had time. just news coming in every strike and every and a long time. tomorrow is likely to be a bigger news day than today was. make sure you get your beauty sleep tonight. make sure you eat your wheaties in the morning. i will see you here again tomorrow evening. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. we will of course be reading every word of these indictments which should be made public sometime in the mid afternoon tomorrow. >> and you know me i'll be at the television. >> it's gonna be up there on the screen, no one is gonna miss anything. it will be a big revelation about exactly where is this
case legally as of tomorrow night. that's gonna be a very, very important stage of this. and that question of what comes after this, as you were addressing with your guests earlier, is where there will be a lot of focus tomorrow night. the question is what clues will we have in those indictments? will there be clues that are experts can point to something else in the future. >> and how serious the jeopardy is for the trump organization. the prospect that the president's business might face a very serious charges. that those charges might be enough to effectively, or directly, drive the company out of business. i mean, that is an existential challenging prospect for the former president. that of course happens well potential superseding indictments are looming, in this case as you are just describing. there's also an ongoing criminal investigation of which he is the center, in georgia.
i mean, this, tomorrow is a sort of day one of a whole new saga in his life. that i think is going to make him a very unpredictable figure. and i think is going to be something that we all the need to open the open minded about in terms of how it's gonna change the news on a day-to-day basis. >> defended trump really officially begins tomorrow. it'll be the company trump that becomes a criminal defendant. but that's what you get when you name the company after yourself. so, the question becomes, and the other uses of the word trump in future indictments. that will be the big question tomorrow. not >> exactly. thanks, lawrence. >> thank you, rachel. hank you, rachel -- based on the kind of
businessman donald trump appeared to be, always appear to be, described by marco rubio when he was running against donald trump as a con man. based on that con man a character that he so clearly seem to be, i believe that donald trump's businesses and financial affairs could not survive the kind of scrutiny that presidential campaign would attract. so, based on no inside information, based solely on how thoroughly sleazily human being donald trump has always appeared to be i thought he would never run for president. because this would happen. and what will happen as a result of him launching a presidential campaign is now happening. nbc news reports the manhattan district attorney's office and the new york attorney generals office together have obtained indictments against the trump organization and it cfo, allan weisselberg. two people familiar with the
matter tell nbc news the charges are expected to be unsealed in court tomorrow in manhattan. one from representative told nbc news earlier today that the charges will be unsealed around 2 pm. as nbc news reported last week, the charges center around a scheme to pay compensation to weisselberg and possibly others, off the books by the trump organization. the washington post reports, weisselberg is expected to surrender thursday morning, at the office of manhattan district attorney cyrus vance junior. two people familiar with the plan says he's expected to be arraigned later in the day, in front of a state court judge. the trump organization will also be arraigned, represented in court by one of its attorneys. this would not be happening if donald trump did not bring new scrutiny to his businesses by running for president.
this is not a political prosecution. this is the kind of attention you get when you run for president. as certainly the attention you get when you become president. this is the attention i was thought that donald trump's financial affairs could not possibly endure. today, the brookings institution released a report from four recognize legal experts in white collar crime, including a former republican justice department official, which concludes that quote, trump is at risk of eventual indictment even if he is not named in the initial filing. the authors wrote a 54-page analysis of the implacable new york state law that donald trump may have violated. the lawyers right, we conclude, based on the publicly available information that trump is at serious risk of eventual criminal indictment in new york state. the report identifies five areas in which donald trump could be charged. one, allegations of falsifying
business records. to, alleged tax fraud. three, alleged insurance fraud. floor, skier scheme to defraud banks. and five, enterprise fraud allegations. in an apparent attempt to distract attention from the criminal charges. donald trump went to the southern border today. it did not work. >> your response to the charges? can you respond to the charges? >> today, the lawyer for ellen weisselberg former dark to lure in law, jennifer watson, work total business insider she is ready to testify against allen weisselberg at trial. we are very gratified to hear the reporting that the da's office is considering bring criminal charges. we have been working with them and other investigators since late last year and have provided investigators with a mountain of evidence about not only fringe benefits, but other potential tax issues.
they we will discover and the indictments will reveal tomorrow, what other potential tax issues could be involved. today, in an interview with msnbc, jennifer weisselberg said that she believes there is legal jeopardy for allen weisselberg and former donald trump personally. involving things that happened after donald trump became president. >> who do you think has leverage on him? and what do you think that leverage entails? >> i think it's donald. >> what is the leverage? >> it's with the presidential inaugural committee. >> can you tell us anything more about that? >> it seems like it bleeds into the trump organization. and there were some things going on after donald was already president, where they were capitalizing on making
money for themselves. and it looks like in depositions, that ellen weisselberg was involved along with the cfo and the white house to orchestrate that money. and one of the organizations that stole the money, looks like it was the trump org. >> do you believe that the former president himself holds any liability here? >> absolutely. absolutely. i believe he'll get the indictment. >> against him? >> yes. yes. >> and leading us off tonight is adam coffman, former executive assistant district attorney and former chief of the investigation division at the manhattan district attorney's office. he served as a prosecutor there for 18 years. mr. coffman, what will you be looking for in these indictments tomorrow? indict>> i feel like i'm here ay early, lawrence. i'm quite eager to see what the
indictments reveal. sometimes prosecutors draft indictments that are a barebones recitation of just the minimal language. so, here you would have in all likelihood, indictments that track the new york state tax fraud statue. simply set forth that there was some type of tax fraud. and that there was a certain amount of money that the state was defrauded from. but other times, prosecutors draft what we would call a speaking indictment, where they give more information. where they describe what a fraudulent scheme might have looked like. and it will be interesting in this case to see whether the district attorney has asked the grand jury to a bare bones indictment, or a speaking indictment, that really says to the public while their case is about. >> when you see that we now
have confirmation that allen weisselberg will be indicted. not clear whether he will be the only person indicted tomorrow. what does that tell you about the focus of these indictments? >> so, there's a few things that come to mind from those facts. the first is, look, it's been widely reported that prosecutors have been pressuring mr. weisselberg to cooperate with the investigation. and thus far he has steadfastly refused to be a cooperative witness. so, it seems -- one of the things that happens in an investigation like this, you're saying to the witness look, if you don't cooperate you're going to get indicted. and it seems that they reached a point where he wasn't going to cooperate, so the prosecutors are carrying through on their threat to lodge car charges against him. the other thing that is really
not clear at this point is whether mr. weisselberg is going to be charged for his role in receiving benefits that were undeclared. or if he is also going to be charged for his role in possibly setting up those kinds of benefits for others. where the trump organization was engaged in this type of tax fraud. there's nothing so unusual about a tax fraud case involving off the books, under the table money. payroll tax cans are prosecuted all the time. so, mr. was hillsburgh, in this unusual circumstance of this case, could be prosecuted both as someone who received benefits. but also as someone who set up the benefits and caused others to receive this type of under the table benefit type of income. o in>> you raise such an important point about allen weisselberg
being the person who would be arranging these benefits. both for himself and others. donald trump, who doesn't leave reckon records of his communication, with someone like allen weisselberg, in order to know for a jury satisfaction that donald trump approve that are directed that, that's where you would have to get weisselberg's testimony saying donald trump told me to do this. in the way that michael cohen testified in his own case that donald trump ordered him to commit those campaign finance crimes. >> exactly right. you need someone who was in the room that said, donald trump ordered this to happen. donald trump of prove this. it was donald trump's decision. without that evidence, you can't have criminal culpability. i think we also have to remember that, in all likelihood, this is the first stage. the first round of what will be
when the grand jury sits for the four, four and a half months, it's the prosecutors -- clearly are bringing a first round of charges against the trump organization. we don't know if it's the trump organization at the parent level or subsidiary level. unknown until tomorrow. but they're bring in this first round of charges. from what i've been hearing, it sounds like this is not the end. this indictment is a first round. and the investigation is continuing. presumably will be looking at things like bank fraud, insurance fraud, falsification of books and records. perhaps the stormy daniels payment. there's a lot i think for them still to do. >> adam kaufman, thank you very much for your guidance on this tonight. we really appreciate. >> thank you, lawrence. nice to be here. >> thank you. joining us now is democratic congressman adam schiff of california. the sherman of the house intelligence committee. chairman schiff, as a foer prosecutor yourself, you know
that we don't know what we need to know until we can read those indictments. we now know that will be reading them sometime after 2 pm tomorrow. what will you be looking for in these indictments? e indictments? >> i'll be looking for what kind of evidence is indicated in the indictments. how specific they are. but look, i think this is not uncommon at all. it may be a very narrow indictment. it may be just the opening salvo in terms of the prosecution. it's not uncommon to start out with a certain base line charge. and then you build a case and go back with a superseding indictment. but particular charges against the ceo full will be significant. what kind of exposure does he have, because that will determine how much incentive he has to cooperate. and for what employees of trump organization say, he was a very detailed person, just like
donald trump. and in order to make a case, if there's going to be a case ultimately made against former president, you are going to need someone who was close to the former president. had intimate conversations with him, knows where the bodies are buried. knows how the records are kept, knows where the documentation is. that certainly sounds like mr. weisselberg. so, i'll be particularly interested in the quality of the evidence and the nature of the charges against him. >> i want to read for you and the audience recording from the new york times about this tonight saying over the last few months, allen weisselberg has continued to show up at trump tower at times coming face to face with mr. trump. but now, the trump organization's lawyers have taken steps to avoid the appearance of any impropriety. in the past, many of mr. trump and mr. weisselberg's conversations were private and behind closed doors. now, they are under instructions to meet in the presence of a witness.
and chairman, that clearly indicates that if they are actually complying with that, that both donald trump in and lynn weisselberg recognize how much trouble they're in. >> well, it certainly means that donald trump's lawyers recognize that he can put himself in further jeopardy by saying things to weisselberg by potentially encouraging him to hide things from authorities or make false statements to authorities that we know for the mueller investigation. that's not unusual conduct for this former president. and so the president sources are trying to protect him. allen weisselberg may not be cooperating now. that doesn't mean he won't cooperate in the future. so i think that's what's going on, but the president has ignored the advice of his lawyers in the past and who knows who will follow that advice now. >> do you, as a former prosecutor and someone who's spent considerable time
investigating donald trump in the first impeachment investigation, does this feel like an inevitable turn of events for someone who has behaved the way you have seen him behave up close in the presidency? >> yes. i mean, this is a grift or from start to finish. he brought his swamp from new york with him to the oval office and this is a guy who used his foundation as a personal political fund. can we be surprised if this organization, the business and, would not be the subject of indictment? but at the same time, i thought an indictment is likely. i still think it's a steep hill to climb to indict the former president. the quality and quantity of the evidence would have to be very significant. it's relatively easy to make a case against the corporation,
but to be able to follow that criminal liability to the very top, you need people inside cooperating. that's again why weisselberg is so important but everything about donald trump's life and everything about his every day in office spells corruption. so none of this is surprising. it's just the same kind of grift private practice that heat imported to the white house. >> chairman adam schiff thank you very much for joining us tonight, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. and coming up, what is the political impact of the name trump appearing in criminal indictments tomorrow the trump company which donald trump has always said he hires the best people. certainly, maxwell and jonathan alter will join us next. ♪ i feel free to bare my skin yeah, that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, ♪ ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪
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would reveal indictments against donald trump's company and his chief financial officer allen weisselberg and his trump -- diversion by creating another news story that competes with and he hopes overwhelms the bad news story about donald trump. that is probably why donald trump went to the southern border today in an event that was carried live by exactly zero news networks. the fox propaganda channel, which in no real sense is a news network covered the event for a total of seven minutes. and so, the most desperate for attention former president in history failed in his missions today and there will be absolutely no way he can distract attention from what the manhattan district attorney is going to do tomorrow at 2 pm. joining us now is zerlina maxwell, host of the program zerlina hosted on the program peacock. and jonathan alter a msnbc political analyst. and zerlina, i had signed up for peacock just for you and
began watching so everyone should be doing that. zerlina, the master of diversionary tactics in publicity, donald trump, seems to have run out of tactics. he's not president anymore. he can't launch any missiles tomorrow. looks like there's no way he can change the subject now. >> well thank god he can't launch any missiles, lawrence. i think we're all sleeping a little bit better in the post trump era. but in all seriousness, i think, you know tomorrow it feels like the start of the accountability chapter and if i were to title this book, i know i wrote the end of white politics, this would be the end of the grift. everything about donald trump from the very beginning of his public persona has been fake. it has been fantasy. and there has not been a lot of real underneath the reality star sort of persona as this
businessman going back to the very beginning, and so i think finally we're coming around to a place where he can be held accountable. but we're only at this place, lawrence, because others have failed to hold him accountable in the past. and so i think it is a lesson for all of us that accountability needs to come a bit sooner because it can become very dangerous if you allow somebody who thinks laws are suggestions, and you give them the nuclear launch codes. >> jonathan alter, donald trump once again creates history. we've never seen anything like this in history. a former president involved in indictments like this. >> yes, he's breaking a new grounds in this. what's interesting to me in the last couple of days is what it looks like his defense is going to be. of course he predictably is attacking the new york prosecutor as a marxist,
radical democrat. cy vance isn't even running for reelection. and so the political motive here, i don't think is going to carry through. and the other thing he said was new york will be devastated, exclamation point in his statement a couple of days ago in anticipation of this. you know, as if nobody will ever want to do business in new york again because donald trump 's company was indicted. that really doesn't make a lot of sense. and i thought the phrase sounded a little familiar. new york will be devastated. and two years ago, various jurisdictions were raising property taxes on golf courses in new york state and then president trump issued a statement saying new york will be devastated if taxes go up on golf courses and so he's kind
of flailing here a little bit in the way he's gonna handle it. having said that, i think his critics need to keep their expectations in check because the fact that weisselberg hasn't flipped yet and he knew it was very likely going to be indicted suggests that it might be pretty hard to flip him. i don't know anything that anyone else knows, but we need to take a real wait and see attitude here and not assume that true accountability has fully begun. >> yeah will know it three clock tomorrow with the potential penalties allen weisselberg is actually facing and that, zerlina, will tell us how much pressure he is feeling. he is old enough that a year would be a very difficult stretch to have to do behind bars for somebody like that. but this is the life and what
happens in the life of donald trump as michael cohen can tell everybody who still works there. >> that's the really confusing thing about it so i think there's still a lot we don't know and jonathan is right we should have our expectations on a measured level and then we will see the details tomorrow but i think to your point allen weisselberg has been there for 50 years and so he knows everything. it's clear that if they had evidence in which they do they would use that to get him to flip but maybe he's like, look, i'm safe. donald trump has my back. he hasn't had this whole time. i would just like to introduce him to michael cohen and others who have gone to prison protecting donald trump and now say that that was a mistake. and so i think island weisselberg is sleeping okay tonight and it's a good thing we don't have to wake up to a tweet. i >> thought about that today
and i was at least relieved about that. zerlina maxwell and jonathan alter. thank you very much for joining us on our final segment of speculation about what might be in the end items that were going to read tomorrow. thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, congress is on the verge of doing something it has never done before. passing to budget reconciliation bills in the same year. the chairman who has to get that done. the chairman of the house budget committee john yarmuth will join us next. us next.
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made history in the house of representatives this year. and he's going to make history again. it is a bit of history that he shares with bernie sanders. john yarmuth is the chair of the budget house committee. -- they passed through their committees, the single biggest bucket budget resolution in history. which became the legislative
framework for president biden's covid relief bill. and now, john yarmuth and bernie sanders are going to do it again. they are going to pass another budget resolution, which will be bigger than the first budget resolution that they passed this year. and so, to add to the historic nature of the second budget resolution, it will be the first time in history that the house and senate germans of the budget committees will have passed more than one budget resolution in the same year. passing a budget resolution is the single most complex and difficult thing. cheer a budget committee has to do. after budget resolution is passed, other committees of the house and senate go to work on the specific legislative changes that are only outlined in the budget resolution. in normally takes a few months for the committees to finish that work, which they then send directly to the senate and house floors to be passed together, in what is then
called a budget reconciliation bill. the reconciliation bill, in bookkeeping terms, reconciles the numbers that were outlined in the budget resolution with real and specific legislative changes in taxes and spending, that add up to the same numbers. today, speaker nancy pelosi said once again, that she expects the partisan bill to first be passed in the senate -- the bipartisan bill to first passed in the senate, sent to the house, where she the will then hold it until john yarmuth's budget resolution is ready to pass the house. dget>> well i said last week, ai retiree now, is that in the house of representatives that particular version as it is, is something that we would take up once we see what the budget
parameters are of the budget bill that the senate will pass. >> the challenge facing chairman yarmuth and chairman sanders, is that they have to write a budget resolution that will get almost all of the democratic votes in the house. and has to get all of the democratic votes in the senate. and one of those democratic votes in the senate doesn't sound ready yet to give president biden everything he is asking for in that bill. >> if they think in reconciliation i'm going to throw caution into the wind and go to five or six trillion dollars, when we can only afford one or one and a half, or maybe two in what we can pay for, then i can't be there. >> joining us now is democratic congressman john yarmuth of kentucky. he's the chair of the house budget committee. the history making chair of the budget. committee [laughs] >> thank you, lawrence. >> mister chairman, you have that difficult position in the house. you could write a bill in the
house, budget resolution in the house, that could easily pass the house. but you know that you have to have something identical to what the senate passes. and you just heard joe manchin say what he believes at this stage, he's not willing to do. he's not willing to go above maybe two trillion dollars. maybe three trillion dollars. the president wants to go much higher than that. what do you say to senator manchin? >> well, i say to him that, by the way senator manchin, there are 221 of us who are in the same position in the house. and another 49 in the senate who are just like you. every one of us basically has the leverage to kill or succeed in passing a resolution. so, the attention that speak to him, i understand. but every one of us is in the same position. and on an everyday basis,
getting democrats together is hurting cats, and this is hurting all the cats and making sure that everyone knows we don't have right now, each of us does not have normal, independence that we would have. we have to basically see, there is an ultimate goal, we all support nickel. we have to figure out how to get there. nancy pelosi all's always says unity is our strength. i say in this case, unity is our only chance. >> let's try to take us through the timetable here for the audience, so they know what to expect. it's not going to happen tomorrow. it seems to me, what i'm hearing from the speaker, is that she expects the senate to pass their bipartisan agreement on infrastructure first. that bill, when it passes the senate, immediately get sent to the house. speaker pelosi takes that bill, says thank you. puts it over here. and then waits for the other
action to be done on what will probably be the democrats only reconciliation version of the bill. it sounds like chuck schumer thing that he expects your budget resolutions to be ready to be passed before the august recess. so, by the end of july. does that sound right to you? >> right. that's what we're trying to accomplish, because then the legislation that magically implements, as you describe so well in your intro, the legislation actually accomplish is what we're trying to do through really reconciliation would be drafted by the various jurisdiction during the august recess. and then we could take it up in the fall. >> yeah, so then you would come back and say september early october and you'd have that so-called reconciliation bill which would be the final piece of it. then, eventually gets past. at that point through the
senate and the house. and you could, the radically, pass at that point if the speaker is holding the bipartisan senate bill. theoretically, you could pass them roughly on the same day. >> we could. but that doesn't matter, i mean obviously the speaker is strategizing that because a lot of people say, well, there is a risk that we would pass the bipartisan bill and then lose some votes on something probably a more expensive but we called the kara connery provisions and job training and senior care and early childhood education. some of the climate change legislation that is so important to many of our members. that's the linkage in the reason for the linkage. but it's not going to be easy. i've been with a progressive dogs today, and i met with the
blue dogs today. and remember, what we're trying to do in the process so that we don't and the filibuster and senate votes. and so every one of the 50 votes of that -- we can only lose four right now and it will be three in the house every vote is critical. it's quite a task that we are facing. >> i want to talk to you about one very important infrastructure project which is the print spends bridge which of course as you know the audience doesn't know, connects your state of kentucky across the ohio river with ohio. hugely important bridge. and so, it's important for senator mcconnell who is working as hard as he can to kill both versions of this infrastructure bill. are we really going to be -- is kentucky really going to be watching mitch mcconnell take
credit for improvements and the bridge after he fought against the legislation that got it done? >> no doubt that for many years will take credit whenever he can but one of the things that's fascinating in the american jobs plan, the president's proposal there is a 25 billion dollar set aside that is designed to have the ten most critical regional infrastructure projects. one of those i think usually ranks about second on the list is the brett spencer bridge. so this is a real opportunity for kentuckians and not just kentuckians and ohioans but everyone in the midwest to do something essential. because this bridge is probably not very far along than the i-40 bridge that we saw in memphis, tennessee. it is definitely in need of
replacement and probably about $2 million but we can fund it out and set aside the plan which mcconnell adamantly oppose. >> house budget chair armand, thank you very much for joining us tonight and i know that no president in history has ever asked more of a house budget committee chair. he's lucky to have you there. i know you have the skill to do it but you're gonna need some luck to do it. thank you very much for joining us, mister chairman. >> thanks lawrence. >> and coming up, how many republicans support passing a democrats only reconciliation bill? it's part of joe biden's infrastructure package. zero republican members of congress support it but 36% of republican voters support it. the political power of the biden infrastructure plan is next. lan is next
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have every senate democrat agreeing to everything he wants in the infrastructure bills. but the public agrees with the president according to a new poll. 62% of likely voters support passing the bipartisan senate bill, which is based on the presidents american jobs plan. and the democrats only reconciliation bill which is based on the presidents american families plan. compared to only 31 person who oppose. that passing both bills has the support of 86% of democrats, 59% of independence, and even 36% of republicans. joining us now is steven dennis, senate reporter for bloomberg news and jonathan alter is back with us. steven, those 36% of republicans out there who support both of these infrastructure bills do not seem to be very well represented in the united states senate. >> no, they don't.
i mean, one thing the democrats are really doing differently from 12 years ago is there focusing a lot more on sugar. 12 years ago, the democrats were nearly newly in charge of all three, the house, the senate, the white house, and they were pursuing very controversial things the republicans could easily call. tax increases on turning on the lights. this time around, the democrats are talking about sugar, they're talking about tax cuts for evs, they're talking about upgrading the grid. they're talking about roads, bridges, things that there are a lot easier to sell. and they're stating fast on a biden pledge of not raising taxes directly on anybody making less than $400,000 a year. so, if you hear that, hey, i'm going to get roads and bridges and it might get childcare down the line, elder care, a lot of things that pull very well -- i'm not surprised that you're
seeing some polling like that. i'm also not surprise you're seeing republicans dig in. because they don't want tax increases. their agenda has been for decades to cut tax rates, not raise them. so, those are their allies. the business community etc. >> jonathan alter, the more i listen to the president about it, the more it sounds like he believes the road to democratic success in the next congressional campaigns and in the next presidential campaign is paved, as they say, with this infrastructure legislation. legislation. >> yeah, he has to put points on the board and this is the most popular way to do it. i think it's on track. i'm not sanguine about it. but the complexities, you can overcome them. i think we saw with john yarmuth, that these are very
skillful legislative operators. they don't have to deal with republicans on the reconciliation package. and you didn't see republicans headed for the exits on infrastructure bill when they got mad about the process. mad at biden and his press conference. because they know their constituents want this. and is very, very hard, ultimately to fill again something that people want. >> stephen, the democrats are not running out to the microphones to see, here's my line, you can't cross this line. very common in the past in situations like this to have three or four lines being drawn by different people or different factions of democrats in the house. maybe another two lines being drawn by some democrats in the senate saying, absolutely. i will not vote for it if x. when you're not hearing that
rhetoric, that's when, at least for the time being, is going smoothly. >> i wouldn't call it smooth sailing. i think it's going to be an incredibly difficult and complex dance here. you've got the bipartisan bill that still being written as we speak. the details are still being flushed out. any minute, mitch mcconnell could pull the roll rug out. he still has a score he could complain about. even just that first step is not guaranteed. the budget resolution is going to be a bear to get paths. and that's just the easy part, doing the budget resolution. because it won't have all the details in. and then that final reconciliation bill, if you think about it, democrats have ten, 12 years of pent up things that mitch mcconnell has successfully blocked. and this is their one chance to do things that mitch mcconnell can't veto. so, every group out there who
has something they want to do, on immigration, on the environment, on climate, on health care, i'm pre-k, on all these things -- this is your one shot. the thing is, nobody really knows right now, including joe manchin, how much he is going to let through that keyhole. this could very well extended three or four months before they get that final package written. ag writ>> i think that's the import scheduling thing we establish with john yarmuth tonight. this is not happening before the august recess. jonathan alter, steven deadness, thank you both very much for joining us. really appreciated. >> thank you, lawrence. >> we'll be right back. reason, or fun. daring, or thoughtful. sensitive, or strong. progress isn't either or
true and the 21st century. and senator sinema used to know that. she used to know that the senate rules could be used for evil. that was her word. evil. 11 years ago. in 2010, in the second year of the obama presidency when kyrsten sinema was a 33 year old member of the state legislature in arizona, she accurately describe how dysfunctional the united states senate had become because it was forced to work under what she called this false pressure to get to 60 votes. >> well the senate no longer has 60 votes. someone argued that we never had 60 because one of those was -- but that's whatever. yeah, and nelson to. so now, i think as a president so eloquently said there's none of this pressure, false pressure to get the 60. so what that means is that the
democrats can stop counting to joe lieberman and instead seek other avenues to move forward will help reform so it's likely that the move forward with reconciliation, which takes only 51 votes. and by the way, it's not unusual. you may recall that before the democrats took the senate in 2008 that the republicans control the senate for quite some time. in fact, since around 1994. they never had 60 votes and they managed to do a lot of really bad things during that time. so the reconciliation process is still quite available and will use it for good rather than for evil. [applause] >> arizona state representative kyrsten sinema gets tonight's last word. perhaps senator kyrsten sinema might listen to her. the 11th hour with brian williams starts now.
>> and good evening once again. they 162 of the biden administration and indeed nbc news reporting tonight the manhattan da's office and the new york attorney generals office together have obtained indictments against the trump organization and its longtime cfo, allen weisselberg. as expected, the charges said to be tax related and are expected to be unsealed in court tomorrow in manhattan. washington post was first to report the news tonight, the paper adds this. weisselberg is expected to surrender thursday morning at the office of manhattan da cyrus vance. he's expected to be arraigned later today in front of a state court judge. the trump organization will also be arraigned, represented in court by one of its attorneys. weisselberg has reportedly been under pressure to cooperate with prosecutors and flip on one donald trump. the investigations of course continue. -- also today,