tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 24, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
but tonight's absolute worst is, frankly, conservatorship abuse. because britney spears' case is getting the the scrutiny it deserves and, maybe, it will spark changes to a really toxic system, much in need of reform. free britney! and that's tonight's reid out. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight, on "all in." >> not just signing the bipartisan bill and forgetting about the rest that i -- i proposed. the president reaches a tentative deal on infrastructure, as republicans keep moderating on policy, while radicalizing against democracy. then, democrats move forward on their own investigation into the capitol insurrection. after republicans block a bipartisan commission. >> they wanted to make it about black lives matter. that wasn't what happened, on january 6th. plus, rudy giuliani gets his law license, officially, suspended for lying about the election.
>> what they did should be a problem for them. they should be being investigated. and nearly a hundred people, still, missing in florida after the collapse of a 12-story condo building. the latest on the desperate search-and-rescue effort when "all in" starts right now. good evening, from new york. i'm chris hayes. you know, it's the kind of thing we really do not see happen often, anymore. this afternoon, the president of the united states, president joe biden, walked out to the white house driveway. surrounded by democratic and republican senators. to announce they have a deal. a big, bipartisan, legislative deal on infrastructure. >> this reminds me of the days we used to get an awful lot done up in the united states congress. we actually work -- get bipartisan deals. bipartisan deals means compromise. >> are you confident that you are going to have all the democrats' support in the senate? >> i'm not confident of
anything. >> now, we're going to get into the details of the deal, which includes $579 billion in new spending on new projects across the country. and a somewhat-complicated two-track strategy, in which democrats would, also, pass a supplemental package alongside that. in fact, i am going to talk to senator chris murphy of connecticut about all of that, in just a moment. but first, i just want to take a step back to put this deal in context with the very strange politics of this particular moment. back in the beginning of february, you know, after the insurrection. and -- and sort of, taking in the aftermath of the election. i published this piece in the "atlantic." in which, i made the argument that the republican party was radicalizing against democracy, even as it was moderating on some core elements of policy. and the events of the past-few days have, i think, borne out that thesis. i mean, remember. just-48 hours ago, i was sitting at this desk, talking to you, right? senate democrats attempted to expand voter access.
to create a, kind of, nationwide floor of voting-rights standards. and that bill, the for the people act, faced uniform-total opposition from republicans. who used the filibuster to block it. not a single republican would vote to even start debate on the bill. and senate-minority leader mitch mcconnell made it clear that there's, basically, nothing democrats can do to, ever, get any-republican support on any part of that bill. certainly, not on things, like, for instance, changing the standards for partisan gerrymandering. or even reinstating the parts of the voting-rights act that the john roberts' supreme court gutted. let's keep in mind, this is the same voting rights act which was last reauthorized in 2006 with a massive-bipartisan majority in the house and a unanimous vote in the senate. in fact, the person who got all the republican senators to vote for it was then-majority whip, mitch mcconnell. that same voting-rights act now
faces essentially-implacable republican opposition. so, that's what i mean by radicalizing against democracy. and we're watching this radicalization happen at the state level, of course. where republican-controlled governments are passing restrictive-voting laws. multiple states are now trying to follow arizona's lead and launch an audit of the 2020 election results. in fact, new polling -- get this -- shows 46% of republicans, almost half, believe it was appropriate for republican legislators in states where joe biden won to just ignore the popular vote. and to try and assign their state's electoral votes to donald trump. that is about as radicalized against democracy as you could possibly get. now, two days later, what do we have? the white house driveway. we have an old-fashion, sausage-making infrastructure deal announced on the white house driveway with a bipartisan group. including, 11 republican senators. how do we make sense of this? well, the republican party's
ideology on core matters of governance has dissipated into incoherence. i mean, really, core questions about political economy, specifically, right? free enterprise and the market. are so detached from the actual-material interests of its base. those policies that they have been championing, forever, right? tax cuts for the rich. you're-on-your-own economics. they've become so unpopular. they have been surely, but slowly, walking away from it all, at least in rhetoric and messaging. because here's the thing. they -- they've lost the ability to rile the -- the base. the current base. the trump base. they have lost the ability to rile them up on those core issues, anymore. it doesn't work. the base doesn't care. i mean, compare that, right, to where we were 12 years ago. and the unrelenting backlash against the obama stimulus. which came, in response to the great recession. in 2009, the american recovery act, which was less than a trillion dollars, was passed
with zero-republican votes in the house. the bill that was supposed to be about jobs, jobs, jobs, has turned into a bill that's all about spending, spending, and spending. >> do you know that, in this porkulus bill, it has been learned, in addition to everything else, illegal immigrants will, also, be given checks? >> i look at this as smother the private sector in terms of a stimulus package. i don't see this as a stimulus package. >> and if -- if you think you are going to get your way out of this recession by all kinds of social programs, welfare programs. you're just going to make it much worse. >> right? the immigrants getting free checks. welfare. social programs. look at barack obama just spending that money around. okay. compare that to, back in march, when joe biden signed the covid-stimulus package. right? because for the second time, in two transitions, a democrat had to take over from a republican, right? so apples-to-apples comparison. right? no-republican votes. i have barely heard a word from
republicans about that package, twice as big as the stimulus. nearly $2 trillion package that passed on a party-line vote in the senate more than three months ago. i haven't heard a word, except to praise aspects of it they want their constituents to take advantage of. what riles up the republican base, now, is fear of multiracial democracy. cancel culture. george floyd protests. black lives matter. censuring dr. seuss. critical-race theory. a constant, constant, moral panic about the threat of those other people, who either do not look like you. or do not share your values taking power and wielding power, the way that they dominate the institutions of american life outside of politics. that's what it's about. that culture war. whose culture it is, whose america it is, is what the base cares about. they could give about inflation or taxes or even welfare. i mean, all this stuff that's
been tried and true, republican reactionary rhetoric for literal decades. all the rhetorical fire has moved away from a deficit and on to some random, school superintendent in maine after his district failed to denounce white supremacy after the murder of george floyd. now, those are the kind of lines republicans cannot cross. but spending on infrastructure? whatever, no problem. then, of course, we got to talk about the obvious, right? the additional, glaringly-obvious aspect of all this. when you compare the first-six months of the last democratic president's administration, to this one. barack obama faced total opposition, on the right, from the outset. now, joe biden has faced a lot of opposition, too. but there is just no universe, as someone who covered this from washington, d.c., up close. in which 11 republican senators would have come out, posed on that driveway, to strike a deal like this with barack obama in his first-six months in office. no universe. the hatred of barack obama was so boiling hot from the base. the base doesn't hate joe biden.
and we've seen it over and over, since the campaign. when t-shirt vendors at trump rallies couldn't sell any derogatory joe biden shirts. barack obama? the hillary clinton stuff, however? that, still, sold like hotcakes. huh. boy, look at those three faces. barack obama, hillary clinton, and joe biden. now, what could it possibly be about joe biden that does not inspire the same visceral ire of the republican base? that doesn't render him toxic and threatening, in the same way as those other-two figures? joe biden. the 78-year-old, white man, is not a living embodiment of the existential threat that the republican base fears. and that existential threat. that fear, of the country being governed by people, other than them, broadly construed, that's what they really care about. the rest? they couldn't care less. senior adviser to senator bernie sanders.
formerly senior adviser to democratic senate leader harry reid. and they both join me now. faz, let's talk about your view of this, as someone who was -- working in democratic staff circles back in those days. like, do you agree that, that picture in the driveway was an impossibility under obama? and, for some reason, is not now? >> yes. they certainly made it almost impossible for obama because of the way in which they demonized him, personally. and that's, i think, what you are driving at. that that was not an individual that they could ever strike a deal with. right? they kind of tore him down to the point where, if you ever did anything with obama, it would just be toxic. and so, i tend to agree with a lot of your thesis there, chris. i think the only thing i would quibble with a little bit is if you look at the state level, right? we are trying to differentiate republicans here. if you look at the state level, they are certainly cutting snap benefits. they are cutting employment benefits. they are still engaged in that
kind of ideological struggle against the working class. but you are right. that at the national level, they are still adhering to trump ideology and taking their keys from a trump party. >> they're still not like they don't want a broad-safety net. like, all of that vestigial ideology is there. but i think what happened, jennifer, barack obama the first-black president. you know, the tea party was talking about the deficit but that's not what they were talking about. but, you could -- you can nicely fuse, the concerns of the donor class and the chamber of commerce with the base. and say deficit and spending, and everyone got it. like, oh, the immigrants are going to get checks. trump sort of pried those apart and just like talk about the you don't like immigrants and all that spending stuff. he's, like, detached the signifier from it and now it's hard to get it back. >> i think that's exactly right. listen.
the republicans, still, engage in donor maintenance. that's why they wouldn't raise taxes even on [ inaudible ] that pay zero taxes. they aren't going to go near that but that's not the base. those are the donors. >> yep. >> those are corporate overlords who keep them afloat in election cycles. you're right. they don't really have much to say about anything else. and although they opposed, 100%, the american rescue plan. again, on this kind of old-style thinking. as soon as it passed and became very, very, very popular, they started touting it, as you said. they couldn't say enough about -- good things about the restaurant revitalization program. they were telling their constituents to get out there and get the getting, when it's good. so, i think there is some schizophrenia on -- listen, they're not going to give up on deregulation because, again, that's their corporate overlords. they are not going to give up on tax cuts for the rich.
and let's, also, remember there are a whole slew of social issues, on which they are even worse than they used to be and i would say abortion is one of them. >> absolutely, yep. >> they are criminalizing abortion, in state after state. you can say that is part of the state apparatus but really, that's the federal-republican party, as well. so it's a really mixed bag but if you want to put that in the bin of cultural issues that are going to light the base on fire. i guess, you could slot it that way. but on guns, for example. on women's rights. >> yep. >> they're no-more moderate than they ever were. >> i totally agree with all of that. on sort of this core political economy, like government spending. i mean the thing i keep thinking of. again, we have got this big -- this big spending package today, right? i mean, the thing i am thinking about, faz, we did a thing with
sherrod brown. there is a world of republican reactionary politics that i, myself, have covered as a younger reporter. they would be talking about it, all the time. it would just be this constant welfare shaming. they are sending checks. everyone's going to be lazy. and it's just not there, anymore. and i think -- i mean, and i -- and i -- i think it's been taken out of their arsenal, partly because the base wants the checks. >> yeah. well, right. we suffered through the pandemic. inequality. i mean, if you just look, from obama to now, the inequality suffered by people is far more painfully real in people's lives. and so, it isn't going to be as easy to get out there talking about welfare queens and -- >> exactly. >> -- you know, people on free rides, et cetera, et cetera, when they need that school-meal program. and they need that child-tax credit. they need that unemployment benefit, just to get by. it's not going to be easy politics for them. they have become far more detached on economic issues from where their people are. and you are right to say donald trump brought up populism on
economic issues to -- to that party, that i think they are still trying to grapple with and figure out how to deal with because it doesn't naturally flow with their ideology. so instead, you have them trying to figure out how to extract things out of joe biden. will you do a gas tax? will you impose some of our conservative-privatization schemes? how about -- how about we get you to be the trojan horse to try to push our conservative agenda? >> jennifer, quickly, the other part of this is what i said in the end there. like, joe biden, i consume a fair amount of right-wing media. he does not inspire rage and contempt the way obama and hillary clinton did. just flat out. it's pity, he is a bumbling, old man. he's not competent. but it's not rage and contempt. you can't get lock -- lock him up chants going and that makes a big difference, too, i think. >> it absolutely does. and you could attribute some of that to longevity. a lot of people know him. but in point of fact, you are exactly right.
he is an old-white guy. he's not come with a foreign-sounding name. and so, they take out their venom on women of color who have been nominated for appointments in this administration. those people, they will demonize. those people, they will go for but not joe biden. >> yeah. compare the coverage of the vice president, the president, it's very, very, clear faz and jennifer rubin. thank you, both. so we are still going to talk about the deal, right? there there's been something bothering me today because i'm not sure what to make of the deal, itself. which i sort of talked around in that first block. you have seen, he and this group of bipartisan senators have reached a deal on infrastructure. but i can't actually tell if this is a huge win for the democrats. or if they just got rolled by republicans. i will ask senator chris murphy what he thinks next. what he thinks next. that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients... ...it's a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look.
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okay. so today's bipartisan infrastructure deal is -- is a strange move, in certain ways, because it appears as if, either, president joe biden and the democrats are just massively rolling the republican party. or they are massively getting rolled. i can't figure out, yet, which is which. all right. let me explain. back the last day of march, right, the white house unveiled their very ambitious infrastructure plan at a cost of $2 trillion. paid for, in part, with raising the corporate-tax rate, among other things. now, republicans, immediately, said no chance. but a group of democrats, most notably, senator joe machin of west virginia, said he did not
want democrats to use the 50 vote straight-majority reconciliation process to just go it alone and pass the biden plan, as they had done with the american rescue plan. instead, manchin and a few others wanted to see if a bipartisan deal was possible. so, they started negotiating with republicans. okay. now, as this was happening, the fear among progressives has always been that a bipartisan deal would be much smaller. and crucially, most crucially, not include a lot of the most vital, climate and green-energy investments of that original-proposed $2 trillion package. and so, the choice, as this has been playing out, appear to be, okay, pass a big, ambitious, climate-centered bill through reconciliation. meaning, only-democratic votes, right? 50 plus one. or, pass a smaller bill much more focused on roads and bridges that leaves out most of the climate stuff. but can overcome a filibuster with ten-republican votes because you strike a deal. what is strange about what happened today is the white house, and a bipartisan group of senators, announced the smaller deal. it's definitely the smaller
deal. but also, president biden, house speaker nancy pelosi, and joe manchin, all, committed to having a reconciliation bill, alongside it. to, basically, pass the stuff that got left out. a kind of cake-and-eat-it-too approach. >> we will not take up a bill, in the house, until the senate passes the bipartisan bill. and an -- and a reconciliation bill. if there is no -- no bipartisan bill, then we'll just go when the senate passes a reconciliation bill. >> i expect that, in the -- the coming months, this summer, before the -- the -- the fiscal year is over. that, we will have voted on this bill, as well -- the infrastructure bill, as well as voted on the budget resolution. and that's when they'll -- but if only one comes to me, i'm not -- this -- this is the only thing that's going to come to
me, i'm not signing it. it's in tandem. >> senator manchin also told nbc news this two-track strategy for infrastructure is the only strategy we have and that reconciliation is inevitable. here is how adam jentleson put it. if the bipartisan piece is just a sidecar to the larger-reconciliation package as the pelosi plan and biden statement suggest it is, then this is effectively one big bill and republicans are just giving democrats bipartisan sprinkles on a progressive sundae. i don't know what to think. again, what matters way more than anything, more than who wins or loses or whatever is -- is simply this. whether we get the scale of climate investment we need to forestall doom and hit the paris-climate-agreement targets. senator chris murphy is a democrat from connecticut and he joins me, now. i tooled with that script a lot because i was trying to explain the messy process. senate process is really, like,
the tar pit of cable-tv news. but here we are. what -- what -- what is your understanding of what happened today? >> yeah. you expect me to decipher this for you, chris. >> well, it's your job, senator. this is what you do for a living. >> so, listen. i -- i think you were getting it right, near the end of that monologue. in that, listen. the bottom line is, are we making a difference in people's lives? and you are not, if you aren't solving the climate crisis. you can build all the infrastructure you want. but if the planet is on fire, it's not going to do much good, 20-30 years from now. similarly, in my state, we need infrastructure. we need better roads and rails and bridges. but if folks can't afford childcare to get a job, then they can't even sniff the train station. so, it is true that, there is a sizeable group of us in the senate who have made clear to leadership and the white house that we're not going to entertain this smaller-bipartisan package,
unless we are, also, moving forward on a budget-reconciliation bill. that pluses up some of the accounts in this bill that are too small. passenger rail, for instance. and attacks some of these issues which prevent people from ever getting to the infrastructure which brings you to work like a lack of childcare. and buoyed by what speaker pelosi and the president said today and even what some of my conservative colleagues in the democratic caucus said, it does appear we are on track to be able to consider this package, developed with republicans. and also, consider a significant, additional bill that will do all those other things. >> okay. i almost feel like i want -- i don't want to do this on camera but that's too late, now. it's like, part of me wants to pretend that i find this outrageous. and that the reconciliation part is -- is making me furious, as a liberal. like, why? why are the republicans going to go for this? like, if this is the plan.
if -- if the plan is to have your cake, and eat it, too. and like, pass this one thing. but then, all the other things they don't like get passed through reconciliation. like, what am i missing about why they're going to vote for it? >> well, so right. i'm -- i'm definitely the wrong person to answer that question. but i can, certainly, engage in reckless speculation. and -- and -- and i guess, my guess would be this. as jennifer rubin said in your prior segment. republicans, you know, we're kind of uncomfortable in voting against the american rescue plan. and then, not being able to go out and take credit for it. they did it, nonetheless. but there are a bunch of republicans, not all of them but many of them, who actually do want to be able to go out and trumpet projects in their districts and make a difference. so for many republicans, this is the ability to put their name on a package and then be able to disavow parts that -- other parts that -- that they they not be as comfortable with. so, there -- there is an ability for republicans to have their cake, and eat it too as well
here. >> that is a great -- that's -- that is a great point. and i hadn't thought of it that way and i think i have been so locked into this zero-sum thinking, which is mcconnellism, right? sort of the mcconnell theory of the case from the first days of barack obama is like there are no win-wins to be had. that -- that -- that if you are -- if the opposition party is successful in driving its agenda, that makes them more popular. and it -- it -- it -- it hurts you, right? prior to him, there was more of a sense, and not always, but a little more of a sense that like, you can find stuff that everyone gets a win out of, right? and so, what i am hearing from you is like, look, there are people that want to be able to vote for an infrastructure package and say that -- we built that bridge there. >> yeah. and listen. i think there is a question as to whether mcconnell has as much control over this caucus, as he did. because you can certainly make that argument. that, if you are only looking at the politics of this, if all you care about is the defeat of joe biden. then, you should sit on the sidelines for everything. but it may be that, after four
years of trump, there are a bunch of republicans who are actually interested in legislating. and that mcconnell is no longer able to persuade all of his caucus to sit on the sidelines. and you are, frankly, seeing that all over the place, chris. >> it's weird, i know. >> you are seeing announcement today on police -- police-reform legislation. i am still at the table on a background-checks bill. you know, there's more sort of conversation at the grassroots happening between the two parties than i've ever seen, before. and i don't know that that's because mitch mcconnell is sort of winning the argument in the caucus. >> it's a great point. and i think, also, you know, i talk to senators a lot. i have been talking to senate. i think, even republicans didn't love coming in to -- to -- to pass judges, and do nothing else. i mean, you know, just as a -- almost at a level of like what am i doing with my life? i think there's some of them that want to do something. feel like they're making an impact? >> yeah. it's also not -- shouldn't be lost on us that a bunch of the republican senators that are in a lot of these discussions are not running for re-election. >> yeah, great point.
yep. >> and maybe, in the short run, that is also accruing to our benefit. you know, fast forward to the senate that replaces this one. without people, like rob portman and others, things may look differently. >> all right, senator chris murphy, thank you for decoding that for me. i appreciate it. still to come. rudy giuliani's commitment to the big lie catches up to him. why new york suspended his law license. woof, that's tough. plus, the latest from surfside, florida, where a 12-story condo collapsed overnight. nearly-100 people are still unaccounted for. vaughn hillyard has the latest next. d for. vaughn hillyard has the latest next
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nearly a hundred people are, still, missing after a high-rise condo building near miami beach partially collapsed overnight. officials say at least one person died. at least ten others were injured. surveillance camera reported the moment the building collapsed, early-this morning. i want to warn you, it is really disturbing to watch. the lights go out, as the building falls.
vaughn hillyard is at the scene in surfside, florida, with the latest. vaughn, what have we learned? >> yeah, good evening, chris. this morning, there were two individuals that were pulled from the rubble. but ever since the sun rose here over miami beach area, no-other individuals have been recovered, at this time. authorities. they just held a press conference, in which they said that there are 99 individuals that are unaccounted for, at this time. it doesn't, necessarily, mean that 99 are missing. but there were 55 units that collapsed, at this condo complex here, behind us. and they, essentially, went from unit to unit, assess how long many individuals are typically there, overnight. and that's where they got to that 99 number. the hope is that there's a number of folks that are snowbirds. potentially, leaving unoccupied condos. but, what we know here is, over
the course of the last-13 hours, that rescue crews have been unable to recover any individuals from the rubble. we saw a difficult circumstance here, this afternoon, in which there was thunderstorms. there was, also, a fire within some of that rubble that led to a plume of smoke that overtook the area for about an hour. the governor was here earlier today, as well as senator marco rubio and congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz. they took part in the press conference just a few minutes ago. they announced there is an emergency declaration and president biden, the federal government, have -- have sent fema resources here. this last press conference this evening, chris, was the last update we will be receiving this evening. they said these crews, rescue crews overnight will continue to work hoping there are some individuals that are beneath that rubble. and there -- there is, perhaps, a pocket of oxygen reaching some of those individuals. those crews. they will be working overnight. we expect the next update to come, though, at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow morning, chris. >> fingers crossed, obviously.
that's a really, really brutal scene. vaughn hillyard in surfside, florida, for us tonight. thank you, i really appreciate it. coming up. house speaker nancy pelosi announces there will be a select committee to investigate january 6th. adam schiff on what we can expect, ahead. on what we can expect, ahead. and rudy giuliani, the former law-and-order mayor of new york city gets his law license suspended for spreading the big lie. that story, next. reading the big lie. that story, next
(upbeat music) - [narrator] this is kate. she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. i have a sign in front of my desk. so let's pretend it's here right now. i had it there when i was the mayor. i keep it with me, now. i'll put it there when i become president. it says, i'm responsible. >> throughout the years, the ever-humble rudy giuliani has insisted he is a man of law and order. a man, who is above reproach. >> nothing disturbs me more than to see all of the revelations of crime committed by some of the most powerful and some of the
wealthiest members of our society. i do think that the work in my office, and other parts of the justice department has changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. >> we're held together by law. and we're held together by respect for the law. that's what america is all about. >> i think i have had, both, an open-transparent government and an open, transparent life. and lead with honesty and truth. >> giuliani has maintained that self-righteous, sanctimonious position, despite having his home and office raided by federal agents, earlier this year. he has been open about his contempt for the man who preceded him as donald trump's personal fixer and lawyer, michael cohen. >> he's been lying for years. i mean, any number of very serious lies by him back a year and a half ago, including his fooling people. hiding tape recordings. telling them they weren't recorded. lying to their face. breaking faith with them. taping his client, which is a
disbarrable offense. >> a new york appellate court just suspended his law license, after finding quote there is uncontroverted evidence that responded communicated, demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers, and the public at large. in his capacity as lawyer for former-president donald j. trump and the trump campaign in wekz with trump's failed effort at re-election in 2020. speaking outside his manhattan home on the 35th anniversary of the day trump's original fixer, roy cohn, was disbarred. >> somebody's got to fix this double-standard justice system, which is not america, anymore. i mean, it -- it's only trump lawyers who have their offices raided. it's only trump lawyers who get penalized without anybody hearing their side of the case. >> only trump lawyers. what do they have in common? as a columnist at new york daily news and staff editor, michael dy chronicled decades over
giuliani. giuliani even once referred to daly as public-enemy number one. now, special correspondent for "the daily beast." donna perry is former prosecutor for the southern district of new york, which giuliani ran. and both join me now. diane, let me start with you. if you could just tell us what the complaint was and what the kind of technical-legal, you know, legal-ethical finding here is? >> sure. so the allegations here were of a pattern of false and misleading statements made to courts and to the public, in general. and the allegation here before the grievance committee was that these were not only false and dishonest. but actually, threatened imminent-public harm. and that, they were continuing and that there was no likelihood that they would stop.
and that this was actually an offense and a danger to the rule of law in this country. so, this type of complaint by one lawyer against another lawyer is not lightly undertaken. and this was done for the reasons i've said. and the court -- this -- the panel of five judges in granting the temporary suspension of giuliani's license found not only was there a pattern of deceitful conduct here. but that, the threat was ongoing. and that required immediate suspension, pending a full-disciplinary hearing. >> michael, obviously, you've covered giuliani for -- for decades. and i think, you know, this is someone who made his name as a lawyer. as -- as -- as a guy, who's sort of swaggering-courtroom presence, like, this is what he did. how do you think this hits him? >> i -- you know, i -- i caught him speeding once and his reaction was if this can happen,
this is no longer america. so now, here he is, again, saying it's no longer america. i mean, he got caught. and if you read the complaint, it's really -- it's kind of astonishing. at how brazen it was and how he kept doing it, even when he knew that he was being examined. i mean, it was -- i never read anything quite like that. i thought -- people always say to me, what happened to rudy? and i always say, well, what happened to him is he woke up in the morning. he's basically always been the same guy. but, you read this and you see that something really did happen. and i just go back to when the -- the 15th anniversary of 9/11. he and chris christie were down with trump. and then, rudy was dancing around trump like he was a little pekingese lapdog right at his feet. and it was -- it was total subservience. and -- and i think that being down there, that meant that rudy, mr. 9/11, accepted all of
trump's lies about 9/11. like, having hundreds of friends die. about having help down there. about having seen muslims cheer. i mean, and he kept lying and lying and lying, trump did, about 9/11. and for rudy, that was fine. so i guess -- and now, he ends up, himself, telling lies about dead voters. i mean, you know. >> well, your point about the complaint, i think, is striking. because i agree. in some ways, there is tremendous continuity here. but, you know, donnia, what all of us watched, right, was this was fundamentally a fraudulent undertaking. it was laughed out of every courtroom. it was -- there was -- it was a lie. the whole thing was a lie. we all knew it. we all saw it. and i think a lot of people were asking, as this was happening, giuliani's going courtroom to courtroom. he would be a little hedged. when he was pressed, he would try to be a little more careful. like, can you do this? isn't there some -- at some point, on all these people -- sydney powell and the rest. like, some ethical bar that says as a lawyer, you shouldn't be
able to go into courtrooms and do it? >> for lying as a lawyer. i mean, half of us, do for a living. i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. >> i won't respond to that. this is -- >> i said half. i said half. >> the other half. this is the outlier. and -- and, you know, it's a noncoincidence that the dominion argument happened, you know, on the same day. and it, in some way, there's -- there's one issue that's at heart, in both cases. which is, were these statements made while the speaker knew, at the time, that they were false? and the panel, today, found, yes, rudy giuliani knowingly made false statements. and they -- they went through, in -- in great detail. how -- how they came to this conclusion, including the reliance on unnamed sources, on
confidential informants. which they pointed out, in a great footnote, don't exist with private attorneys. and that -- that the statements are internally inconsistent. as you said, chris, he jumps around in the space of one court hearing, he said, yes, [ inaudible ] accusations of fraud. no, we're not. and you cannot do that as a lawyer. lawyers are supposed to be held, no matter what michael says, to a higher standard. >> i -- i -- that was unfair, i agree. but the -- and i do know that criminal lawyers, a lot of times, don't ask their clients, did you do it? because then, if the client says yeah, they can't go in court and act like the guy didn't do it. so there -- there's -- so i am aware of that. and -- and, you know, what shocked me with rudy was just the total disregard for that. it -- it's -- i mean, as a lawyer, you must just be -- >> and that's why, as i said at the outset, chris. i mean, in practicing law for 25
years, this is one of only-two complaints that i've been party to. the other one, i will say, was against the former-new york attorney general, who violently, sexually abused a number of women, including me. so, that was -- that seemed worthy of complaint. >> yeah. >> and this, very different reason, seems worthy of complaint. and i will say, in that case, his license was not suspended temporarily. he was not deemed to be a -- a public danger. nor, did we even request it. i was not aware, until this complaint, that it was available. so this is a real-outlier case and that's exactly what the panel found today. >> outlier case is the -- is -- well, i guess, it's hopefully the name for this chapter of american history. although, that remains to be seen. michael daly and danya perry. thank you both republicans do not want to investigate the attack on the capitol. so now, house speaker nancy pelosi is taking matters into her own hands. her big announcement that could finally get us answers, next. g finally get us answers, next as gum issues.
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just last month, democrats tried in good faith to create an independent bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the u.s. capitol. then came word from donald trump that republicans in the house and the senate should not approve the democrat trap of the january 6th commission. hopefully mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy are listening. they were, the next day, mitch mcconnell came out against it, and senate republicans blocked the creation of a commission. now, house speaker nancy pelosi has taken matters into her own hands. >> this morning, with great solemnity and sadness, i'm announcing that the house will be establishing a select committee on the january 6th insurrection. again, january 6th was one of the darkest days in our nation's history. i have said it now three times. it is imperative we establish the truth of that day and insure
that an attack of that kind cannot happen, and that we root out the causes of it all. >> so what exactly does this mean, who will be in charge of this thing, and what role with republicans play, if any? adam schiff, democrat from california, is chair of the house intelligence committee. he joins me now. congressman, what's your understanding of what today's announcement means in real terms? >> real terms, it means we're not going to be deterred by the hypocrisy by the republicans. we negotiated with them in good faith, chairman bennie thompson did a remarkable job, came to an agreement with his ranking member in the republican counterpart on a commission, five democrats, five republicans. both parties necessary to approve a subpoena, and nonetheless, the republicans said no. mitch mcconnell called in a personal favor with his senate colleagues, now, why on earth would you do that? you showed why. donald trump doesn't want it to happen. the speaker took the next step,
which is if you're not going to allow a commission, we're not going to simply turn away from this terrible tragedy. we're going to get to the bottom of it, so she will establish a select committee to conduct this investigation to find out what went into this insurrection, why didn't we see it coming, what was the status of the intelligence. was it shared, why we were so ill prepared on that day, and most important, how do we protect ourselves from something like this in the future? >> this is almost a banal point, but i think it's worth mentioning. the two ap options on the table the bipartisan commission, the math was five and five, equal numbers. that was the 9/11 commission. what's significant about that, committees in conference, the committee holds a majority. they can kind of do what they want as long as they hold the caucus together on all the business of the committee. a bipartisan commission, you set up a situation where you must find consensus. you have to have everyone kind of get together, and that was the model.
so one offer to the republicans was, share power as equals. and they said no. so now they're going to get a chitty where they're in the minority and don't have the same power. how do you understand why they have chosen that? >> well, it is pretty remarkable because it's a big leap of faith when you're the majority to say, let's do a commission. it will be 50/50. >> yes. >> and frankly, if you're not operating in good faith, you can stop the commission by refusing to grant any subpoena. so that was a remarkable, you know, expression, i think, of goodwill. and more than that, commitment to do this the way it should be done. and the republicans said no. and the reason they said no is they don't want it done. they're afraid that it will show complicity among their members in propagating the big lie, in creating the environment for that insurrection. whatever their fears are, they don't want this to see the light of day, and most particularly, donald trump doesn't.
and they are nothing about the party, the cult of donald trump. so the result, yes, is there will be a select committee. they will be in the minority in the select committee. we are going to nonetheless try, whoever the speaker appoints to this, to conduct this in an objective way. to get to the truth, to have a thorough and objective report. you know, what republicans will do for their side, i don't know, but i think we have to assume that it won't be operating in good faith, but we can try. that's all we can do. we can't walk away from the responsibility. >> the last big select committee on people's mind, the benghazi select committee that the house republican majority empanelled and had hillary clinton testifying for 11 hours. famously, kevin mccarthy touted it in this instrumental fashion as conjured to push down her poll numbers. what are the lessons from that select committee? >> i was on that select committee. i was actually on two
investigations of benghazi. the first was done by the house intelligence committee, and it was bipartisan. and it debunked all these conspiracy theories about hillary clinton and about the security and allegations that she had interfered with it somehow. we debunked that on a bipartisan basis, as did six or seven other bipartisan committees. but that wasn't the answer that kevin mccarthy wanted. so he pushed for a select committee that would be a purely political instrument. that is not the situation here. here, we tried for the bipartisan commission. they rejected it so far. we still want this done right. but it has to get done. and we'll have to get it done right as a select committee unless they come to their senses and embrace a truly bipartisan commission. >> all right, congressman adam schiff who did serve on that benghazi select committee those many years ago. thanks for making type tonight. >> thank you. that is "all in." the "rachel maddow" show starts
right now. good evening. >> thank you, my friend. much appreciated. >> and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. very, very happy to have you here. got a big show for you tonight. we're going to start with my favorite movie. the original version, the black and white version of "the manchurian candidates "came out in 1962. and this is not exactly a spoiler, but the real villain in the story is angela lansberry. not a spoiler. you figured it out soon when you're watching it. but angela lansbury is the kind of a hidden from the public villain. she's the power behind the throne. she's the wife of an increasingly high-profile u.s. senator, but you soon learn that he's just like a puppet. he's a dolt, and she's really the one pulling all the strings. so here's a clip. you can see angela lansbury here. you see her quiet, sort of evil satisfaction. whhe