tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC June 15, 2021 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
opposition with each other. they're trying to divide this really cross racial cross class coalition. out of the george floyd protest. and race is always been since the bacon rebeblon. to divide movements. >> thank you for making time. that is all in. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> much appreciated. thank you for joining us. happy to have you. as president biden preparing for a summit tomorrow with rush president vladimir putin it's been a white knuckle day for democracy back here at home. in a congressional hearing today on the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol, there was no explanation. none. for why the national guard stood down for hours. while the capitol was over run that day by a huge violent mob
of trump supporters. the committee and the house documented 12 different requests to the pentagon that day. trying to get help from the national guard. 12 different requests. while the attack was under way. five different times the national guard was told that they needed to standby. and be ready to maybe do something. but it was close to five hours before any national guard troops were sent to the capitol. at which point the capitol was well and truly overrun. today one of the pentagon officials who couldn't explain that delay in dispatching the guard on january 6, one of the officials who couldn't explain it, never the less testified about it. was a general charles flynn. he is the younger brother of trump national security adviser michael flynn. who of course called on trump supporters to come to the capitol january 6.
who publicly called on trump to declare martial law and have the military take over the country and rerun the election and swing states. where trump lost. michael flynn's brother on january 6th was the deputy chief of staff of the united states army. which he described essentially being the chief operating office of the army. after the attack happened on january 6 on hard questions started to be asked about why the national guard wasn't there. why they took so long. request after request produced no help. for hours and hours. when hard questions first started to be asked about what happened there the pentagon initially made false public statements saying that general charles flynn had nothing to do with fielding any of the requests for help. or taking part in any of decision making about whether the national guard would be deployed to save the capitol.
those were false denials from the army that he was involved. today general flynn explained to the house over sight committee he was involved in the decisions and in that planning. even though he didn't have answers for what went so wrong and why it took five hours to get there. we don't know why the pentagon lied. initially about general flynn and said he wint involved in the decisions. we don't know why the pentagon sat on its hands for hours instead of sending anyone to help. even though they very well knew exactly what was going on and directly fielding panicked calls from lawmakers asking for help. we don't know whether general charles flynn and his brother mike were in communication. about anything on that day of the attack. or anything in the lead up to the attack. we don't know. so, that's very unsettling.
general charles flynn since been put in charge of all u.s. army forces in the pacific. while his brother mike is currently touring the country. appearing at events marketed to adherence of the conspiracy theory. telling them there ought to be military coup in the country. to reinstall trump in power for pounding the fantasy to followers that trump will be put back in as president sometime this year. because the result of the election shouldn't count and won't count much longer. that's one brother while the other is running the u.s. army in the pacific region. after being part of whatever decision making process went so wrong at the pentagon on january 6. that resulted in there being no help from the national guard to save the capitol for hours. while it was being over run by supporters of the general flynn. and president trump.
like i said a white knuckle day. for democracy. here at home. simultaneously today fbi issued a warning to lawmakers that the conspiracy theory may get more serious about trying to physically harm democrats and others who they see as enemies. we assess that some violent extremists adherence likely will begun to believe they have an obligation to change serving digital soldiers to real world violence. including harming perceived members of the kabul. democrats and instead of waiting for the actions of q. which haven't occurred. simultaneously we're getting that warning from the fbi. and we have the local press in arizona warning that q
anon-adherence in arizona and the country have a new focus. a new obsession. which is the so called audit in arizona where republicans in the legislator have taken the states ballots and votes machines and given them to trump supporters who support the stupid and wild clams about the election being invalid. these are coming together, it's unsettling. the fbi already considers q anon-to be a domestic terrorism threat. warning that the folks are likely to move in to serious violence. to try to start physically harming people. they see as enemies. and those are the folks who effectively given the ballots and voting machines in arizona so they can tell us what went wrong in the presidential election. "washington post" reporting that whatever it is they are doing with the ballots in the voting machines in arizona appears to
be almost done. they'll soon be saying publicly whatever it is they're going to say about the presidential election result last year in arizona. presumably they'll call for decertifying the arizona result. which is not a thing. they'll say there was something so wrong in arizona that the election can't count. or maybe they'll say they found so much wrong they can't explain it but the result can't be trusted. maybe the election should be rerun in arizona. which is not a thing. today, we learned that when president trump was still president after the election he tried to force that to happen. house committee leased a couple hundred pages of e-mails obtained showing way more than we knew about how trump tried to use the power of the federal government and presidency to stay if power. despite losing lt election. it is the striking thing.
in black and white. trump had a legal brief sent to the justice department on december 29, 2020. he told the justice department to file this brief with the united states supreme court about how the presidential election was invalid. the brief ends with this. prayer for relief. the united states this should be done on behalf of the people of the united states, the united states respectfully requests that this court issue the following relief. declare the electoral college volts cast by presidential electors in defendant states. pennsylvania, georgia, wisconsin, arizona and nevada cannot be counted. join defendant states use of the 2020 election results to a point presidential electors to the electoral college. the brief actually says that part again. it repeats it. trump hasn't wrapped himself up in the best lawyering. enjoying defendant states use of
the 2020 election results to appoint presidential electors to the electoral college and authorize the defendant states to conduct a special election to appoint presidential electors. that's what they were telling -- he wanted the justice department to tell the supreme court to do that. sent december 29. he had the brief sent over to the u.s. department of justice telling them to file this with the supreme court. so the u.s. government would be asking for all the presidential election results to be thrown out in all the swing states he lost. electoral votes shouldn't be counted and the supreme court should order new elections for president in all of the states. 44 states you can keep your election results. these six we'll redo it. and i guess maybe either the military per michael flynn would
order the rerunning oflt election in the swing states or the supreme court would do it per the justice department brief that trump wanted filed on his behalf. either way, the idea was to rerun the parts of the election that trump lost. the actual election results wouldn't be allowed. new elections in the swing states he lost. that was the plan. and these e-mails just released today between the trump white house and jus stis department are shocking to see. they are billed as more evidence of jus exactly how trump and the white house were pressuring the justice department to try to force the over turning of the election results to keep trump in power. even though he lost. they are that. they tell us more about the white house asking for. but what they also are, again unsettling, these new record we got today are a detailed record
of justice department officials not only receiving, entertaining this crazy stuff from the white house, justice department officials acted on it. they took in this crazy non-sense from trump from the white house and actually pushed it out to federal prosecutors to u.s. attorneys in the relevant u.s. states. tts one thing to be the victim, right? to be on the receiving end of white house pressure on stuff like this. it's another thing entirely to receive that pressure and decide not that you are going to absorb it and shield the rest of the government and the justice department. this inappropriate pressure. it's another thing to not decide you are going to absorb it. instead to pass it onto subordinates to act on it? that's what the white house wanted. i mean, this would be like in
the news business if somebody in politics was pressuring executives that i need to cover something differently than i did. the right thing to do in that circumstance is for the executive to handle it him or herself. to tell the person to buzz off or say yeah yeah whatever. absorb it. the important part is never tell me to never actually pass on the actual pressure. some outside persons effort to effect the editorial freedom. journalistic freedom. they aren't effective. but if that execive turned around and said i heard and they want you to do this differently. first of all i would quit. second of all i would know that person is not doing their job. that's what happened at the trump justice department. trump leaned on senior officials to act on this crazy stuff and they didn't just sit on it.
they fielded it out to actual federal prosecutors and attorneys. a bunch of times. this is a shocking part of the story. certainly the more urgent matter for the current justice department under garland to act on and investigate to get to the bottom of it. clean up and make sure it never happens again. we have it all in black and white. december 14, 2020. the time stamp. 4:57 p.m. subject from potus. it's got an attachment. this non-sense conspiracy theory stuff about michigan. a cover up on voting crime. laws have been broken. a capitol c cover up is happening. regarding the voting machines in michigan. a seditious conspiracy. this is flier you find in a bathroom somewhere. and decide to leave the place
not come back. the president of the united states sent this to a top justice department official on december 14. at 4:57 p.m. what happened to it? two minutes later, the principle deputy to the justice department official forwarded that attachment. the crazy michigan stuff to the actually top federal prosecutors in michigan. this is sent to the u.s. attorney for the western district of michigan. from the attorney general. see attachment. senior level official at the justice department sending this forwarding this stuff out. to the actual federal prosecutor in that state. being on the receiving end of crazy stuff is nothing you can't be blamed for. sending it on from the top offices down to federal prosecutors in that state, that is another matter altogether.
that is a serious problem. is that being fixed? less than an hour after those two justice department officials one receives it from the white house. and sends it to the michigan u.s. attorneys. an hour after that happened, trump announced those two officials were promoted to new jobs. acting attorney general of the united states. congratulations gentlemen. how are we doing with the michigan conspiracy? we fielded that out to the michigan u.s. attorney. yeah. good. you got new jobs now. it happened in pennsylvania as well. allegations about the election being invalid in pennsylvania. top justice department official sent it out to the federal prosecutor in western pennsylvania. on january 1, trump white house chief of staff told the attorney
general to have another official look into non-sense moon bat claims about the georgia election being invalid. how did the attorney general respond? he sent that other justice department official in fact the cell phone number of the u.s. attorney in georgia. that u.s. attorney gets called. we don't know what happened in the call. within two days that same official who also rang the bell of the u.s. attorney in georgia and pennsylvania is on the phone with the u.s. attorney in georgia and then sending that u.s. attorney in georgia a thank you for his resignation. what did he resign over? what was he asked to do that he resigned instd of doing it? what we have now isn't just a record of trump and the white house chief of staff using the justice department to over turn the election and keep trump in power. the record of the justice department wining about it. going along with too.
which is way worse. over sight committee wants testimony from all the officials. that's a start. joining us now. covering the justice department for the "new york times." she's way ahead of everybody else of pressuring the justice department. she reported on the documents. nice to see you. thanks for making time. >> thanks for having me. >> i feel like a lot of the attention today has focussed on the new information that the documents give us about how the trump white house and president himself were pressuring the justice department. there's been attention to the fact that justice department officials sort of complained among themselves as to what the trump white house was asking them to do. there has been less attention to the fact it was farmed out to u.s. attorneys. i wonder if you have perspective on that. >> sure. i think we saw in the last few weeks before the january 6
attack, officials agreeing with one another not to do anything. they would take in material and forwarded it along. a wink wink nudge nudge. everybody knew, nobody was going to open an investigation. or appoint special counsel. and placate the president the most generous read is that people really felt that they needed to stay in their places. if they get fired or pushed out they would be replaced by who knew. there were real concerns rudy giuliani figure. who would do things to never been done. another is four years of the justice department being attacked by the president. we saw him publicly pressuring officials and extraordinary ways. ways that haven't been done really since nixon. and over the four years we almost became numb to it. that goes for people inside of the justice department.
conversations reporting showed up in the "washington post." "new york times." and out lets show officials began to have conversations among themselves to the effect of if we don't do it, how bad is it? if the coup doesn't happen how bad is it. we kept law and order in place. nobody knows this is happening. we can hold it together. you really do get flavor of that in the e-mails. to your point, grumbling, passing it along. nobody actually taking action. no investigation launched. everybody kind of just nodding. >> the one person who resigns here about whom we still don't really know the back story, is bj peck the u.s. attorney in georgia. we have typing the time line in terms of what we don't know. we see the chief white house chief of staff. mark meadows. forwarding the moon bat georgia
stuff to the attorney general. within a couple days. he's sending more stuff and asking for a specific justice department official who seems inclined towards the president's view of the election. to look into whaths going on in georgia. we know the attorney general rosen passed on the phone number to him. and within a couple days he resigned and thanked for his resignation. by one of the senior justice department officials who was promoted. do we know anything more about bj pack was asked to do in or what led it his resignation. >> the documents one of the interesting things we see is there is a very tense meeting that the "new york times" reported on. that takes place that day. where you have the president essentially deciding whether or not he'll keep acting attorney general jeff rosen in place. or whether or not he'll replace him with the acting head of the civil division jeff clark. he believed the president won
the election or fraud had so damaged the election the results couldn't be known. he was a true believer and trying to get other officials on board. with a plan to do something particularly in georgia. particularly in full ton county. we see time stamps. various officials are saying we don't have a full read out. we think he'll remain acting attorney general. the cause of justice won. we're not going to have something who believes these conspiracy theories running the justice department. that meeting was about georgia. that meeting was about donald trumps true belief something happened in georgia. he had the call in georgia trying to get him to do something to find votes and fraud. to find evidence to cast doubt who had won the state. we see this really tense and awful meeting happen. it's after that meeting that you
see rosen's deputy e-mail bj pack. a few minutes after the entire justice department debriefed op what happened in the meeting. president obsession with georgia is known. the fact something is going to probably happen to bj pack or mentioned. is known. and that point that the number two official calls pack. and you can assume he likely explains to him what has just transpired in the meeting. and president trump's obsession with georgia. and he presents him with a a couple options. if you are bj pack i don't know what you would do. i don't know for sure what i would do. i will say one option being to quietly leave before i'm tweeted about and my reputation is destroyed. by president trump. doesn't sound like the worst option in the world. you can say that this is still completely inappropriate and
undue pressure that option was on the table. that's interesting about the timing. it happens after the long meeting where you see every official at the top resign in protest. because of what the president intends to do or wants to do around georgia. >> and of course, the fact there is a criminal investigation under way by a georgia state prosecutor now. whether or not the president may have acted criminally. when he tried to interfere in the administration of the election in georgia. it raises questions as to whether it might be another avenue the investigation maybe another avenue to figure that out. maybe he may be a witness in the state investigation remains to be seen. this is beat keeps getting weirder. thank you for helping us understand it. we have much more ahead of it on this busy night. stay with us.
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i have read this headline over and over today. i can't get over it. even the basic grammar. giving away another $2.7 billion to charity. another? she is one of the richest will in the world. donating $2 billion to charity organizations this year. again in that headline the word another is where i get tripped up. also this about what she's giving this year. but it's june. why are you announcing it in june? that's what she's given away in the first half of the year. last summer she announced she gave away $2 billion to black colleges. end of last year she had given $4 billion to other charities. today nearly $3 billion again in the first half of the year.
she's given more than $8 billion in 12 months. incredible thing in lots of ways. there's another reason i can't get this headline out of my head. she of course used to be bezos. she was married to jeff bezos. the founder of amazon. they divorced in 2019. he's the richest person on the earth. when they got divorced she got her own share of the fortune. her settlement in the divorce is sh holds 4% of amazon stock. when they divorced she was worth about $36 billion. now, owning 4% of amazon stock meeps she is worth more like $60 billion. that is even with giving away $8 billion in a year.
as fast as she can. amazon is worth so much as a company, giving away billions of dollars a year doesn't effect the fact her net worth keeps going up. she's not jeff bezos. here's worth $190 billion. he has so much money now the only thing he can think of to do with it all is to launch himself into space. i know yo think i'm kidding. he said quote the only way i can deploy this much financial resource is by converting my amazon winnings into space travel. that's it. so now he's doing it. funding a space tourism company and heading to space next month himself. wealth that amazon that company generated is almost impossible to wrap your head around. especially the last year. because of the pandemic amazon which was already unimaginably
giantic. they saw a huge up serge in business. everybody was staying home and ordering online. you take what they made in profit in the three years before the pandemic, and add those together. that's how much amazon made last year alone. they made three years of profit in one year. so, jeff bezos is making himself into a spaceman. and his ex-wife is giving away billions of dollars a year and still only getting richer. as she does it. of course the way that company is able to generate all of that wealth is they have a huge massive army of workers who handle all the packages. they are the ones that make it all the money. along with the companies bottom line, the work force ballooned last year. between july and october amazon
hired 350,000 new employees. that's more people than live in the entire city of st. louis. they added 350,000 new workers. just from july to october. right now amazon is the second largest private employer in the united states. on pace to be the largest in the next year. last year the "new york times" started talking to amazon employees. where ever they could find them. specifically people who have hourly jobs at this facility. jfk 8 in new york city. it's the only fulfillment center amazon has for the larnlest city in the country. it's huge. 15 football fields. reporters from the "new york times" spent months talking to employees who work inside that facility. and today they published what
they found. the amazon that customers don't see. the times interviewed 200 current and former employees for the piece. many work inside the giant facility. and what they were able to thread together is a bluntly distoep yan picture of working in that center. especially during covid. here's one example from the family. on the left there is albert. with his wife and two kids. he worked there for five years. when covid hit new york last spring. he and his wife talked about whether he should stay home from work to avoid getting covid. they are trying to buy a house they needed income. he kept going to work. >> when he arrived to work on march 24, he heard the warehouse
had a first positive case. he messaged his boss who replied yes i forgot to bring that up. he called his wife to discuss whether to head home. he finished his shift on the dawn drive back to new jersey. his throat began itching. he became severely ill. he suffered permanent brain damage. he will never speak, eat or work again. for a while his family was receiving disability payments from amazon. but stopped coming without warning. his wife tried to reach somebody. to find out what happened. most calls went unanswered. finally she got someone on the phone who agreed it was an error and reinstated payments. she got an e-mail to her husband that made no sense. under the circumstances. we notified your manager and hr rep about your return to work.
on october 1. 2020. what? he cannot eat or talk. let alone work. especially since the company knows they are paying disability payments. his wife doesn't think the company ever understood what happened to her husband. she wanted to ask amazon are your workers disposable? can you replace them? a spokesman expressed regret the family didn't feel supported. he and his entire family are in amazon's thoughts and prayers and the disability payments were premature hi halted error. due to a system. he's not the only employee to come down with covid in may another worker died of covid. amazon said it was disclosing confirmed cases to health
officials new york records show no reported cases from the facility until november. the times noted city officials dispute what happened. believe me bh i tell yo that horrible confusion with the family, this discrepancy with reporting covid cases and facilities started the tip of the iceberg. this block buster paints a picture about american workplace where employees have been fired by mistake. and unable to find any real human being to fix it. let alone reinstate them. a company that suffers from immense turn over. the times found even before the pandemic amazon was losing 3% of hourly work force every week. which means 150% turn over a year. the entire work force was turning over. in less than a year. one former amazon employee telling "new york times" about what it means for a company to churn through its entire huge
work force once or twice a year. you need to have eight, 10 million people apply each year. that's about 5% of the entire american work force. the company is worried they will not have enough people to keep churning through to keep being the same company they are. the people who have been or will be employed by amazon represent a big slice of people in the country. given the size of the company. and how big it keeps growing. but according to the reporting in the times in particular it appears to be a problematic place to work. particularly if you are not a white person. according to internal records, black employees were 50% more likely to be fired than white coworkers. more than 60% of the workers are black or latin. 70% of the company put in
management positions were white or asian. amazon couldn't confirm the data without knowing specifics about the source. one former hr vice president told the time amazon intentionally limited upward mobility for hourly workers. which means if you are a core worker at amazon the one making it possible for jeff bezos to shoot himself into space, particularly if you are a worker of color. chances are you are not moving up in the company. the company is deliberately making sure there's no upward mobility for hourly employees. who are the ones that make the company money. you are not sticking around for the long haul. which is planned. that turn over is a structural problem at amazon. by design. jeff bezos from the beginning didn't want hourly workers that would stick around for an amount of time.
he saw a large disgruntled work force as a threat. the official said the data showed most employees became less eager over time and he believed people were lazy. and tell him quote the nature as humans is expend as little energy as possible to get what we want or need. apparently the guiding philosophy at the company that is the largest employer of americans. an hourly worker, it doesn't seem like there's no future for you there. there's no step up. they will churn through you until someone else does your job. richest company on the horizon. company generating immense wealth. without a way for the people who create that wealth to participate in rewards. it's one thing when a lot of
companies are like that. it's a thing for the country when you are about to become the largest private employer of americans. this reporting in the times is the journalism that leaves a crater when it lands. one of the lead reporters on this story joins us next. - oh. - what? rain. cancel and stay? done. go with us and get millions of felixble booking options. expedia. it matters who you travel with.
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breathe cleaner air, and even take on climate change... would you press it? joinings now one of the investigative reporters behind this new "new york times" nvgts of the company about to become the largest private employer in the united states. amazon. a company with 150% annual turn over in the work force. you recognize her as a puldser prize winner on the me too movement and abuses of harvey winestein. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> why amazon? why did you pick amazon as the subject for the investigation?
>> the ultimate question of the investigation is to how can amazon be so precise and sophisticated with packages and yet treat people so differently. for example, at amazon you can get a job abandonment notice for applying for a leave. for a very routine leave. many people have gotten them. and alarm workers. making them think something is wrong. like the notification of a few minutes ago. when her husband was so ill. she got a message saying to that to her husband, saying when are yo coming back to work? even though for months she has been trying to tell the company her husband was severely ill. >> one of the other things i found nightmarish in the report. the moment by moment monitoring of amazon workers at fulfillment centers. their rate at which they
accomplish the task. and time off task. when they are doing something that physically the company in its automated systems doesn't believe to be productive movement. it feels sort of -- >> the story of a employee who was regularly praised. a good performer. 2019 she was fired. why? she had one bad day. a nightmare day one thing snowballs into another thing. she tried to stay on task. and other things got into the way. and had to pause. she told her job totals were too high and she was escorted out. that kind of practice created a tremendous amount of fear. among amazon workers. people may heard the idea amazon
workers cannot take bathroom breaks. it's not true. but represents apprehension the company creates in workers. actually, over the last couple of weeks we asked many questions and for a lot of response. and we went to them with the story. four times. and finally they came back with us and said they are changing the policy just a little bit so now nobody can be fired for one bad day. they will look at an average over time. so this is also a fascinating part of the reporting. on the one hand we found the enormous problems in the warehouse. on the other hand jeff bezos recent le said he wants to do things differently. and the question is now how far he will go. >> reading about this is a business story. you can almost imagine a sort of evil genius on the business side thinking i wish i had that. the ability to treat workers
that dispose bli. to automate interaction at company. to have them get hired by a machine and fired by a machine. and not have anybody to call and complain. and churn through them and use them at tools. imagine the evil business efficiency argument. it's the secret of how they are so profitable. the other thing i didn't realize before reading this report, is that amazon is starting to realize that they're operating this way at such a massive scale. they maybe burning their way through at least the american work force in a way that is going to force them to change. they can't just keep doing this. 10 million americans won't apply every year. if this is what the jobs are like. >> some went on the record and
did the story and what they told her is they are deeply worried. worried about amazon running out of the workers and worried about scale. some of the bezos ideas that workers are more or less lazy. and human beings want to expend less effort. these were interesting ideas when you try them in a smaller workplace. when you try to scale them up to these giant proportions. in some cases with computers doing the work and some human intervention. not always a ton. that is when the system begins to break down. and yes, executives are churning through workers. they are worrying about running out of workers. >> investigative reporter from the "new york times." who jeff bezos wants to shoot into space. i'm willing to bet. at this point he's going to offer you his seat.
don't take it. congratulations to you and your colleagues on this reporting. thank you so much. we'll be right back. ometimes yo♪ ♪ where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪♪ ♪ and they're always glad you came ♪ welcome back, america. it sure is good to see you. ♪ ♪ welcome back, america. ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. super emma just about sleeps in her cape. but when we realized she was battling sensitive skin, we switched to tide hygienic clean free. it's gentle on her skin, and out cleans our old free detergent. tide hygienic clean free. hypoallergenic and safe for sensitive skin. centrum multigummies aren't just great tasting... they're power-packed vitamins... that help unleash your energy. loaded with b vitamins...
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today, we are one step closer to a new federal holiday. there are currently ten federal holidays that we recognize here in the united states, but we will likely soon have 11. senate today passed a resolution establishing juneteenth as a national federal holiday. juneteenth, of course, celebrates the end of slavery in the united states. president lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation in 1863 but it would be another two and a half years before the last remaining slaves in galveston, texas, finally learned of their freedom on june 19, 1965. june 19 is jnlt. juneteenth. now, the fact that the senate vote was unanimous today, that came as a bit of a surprise.
wisconsin republican senator ron johnson had previously blocked this, but i guess today he got over it? the bill will now go to the democratically controlled house. it is expected to pass in the house. still tbd on when exactly, but after that, it is expected to be signed into law by president biden. it has been almost 40 years since the last new federal holiday was created. the holiday honoring reverend dr. martin luther king jr. that was created in 1983. but we're about to get another one. if you are one of the roughly 2 million federal workers in this country, starting next year, you can expect an extra day off for that federal holiday. as for the rest of us who don't work for the federal government, it is not only something worthy of celebrating, it is definitely something worthy of bugging your boss to give you the day off to celebrate it. juneteenth. i'm greg, i'm 68 years old. i do motivational speaking in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling--
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the meeting's going to be held at a place called park la grange. i think that's how you say it. i'm definitely going to say grange and not grange, which is what it looks like. it's a big park in geneva, switzerland. it has a big 18th century villa in the middle of it. it's going to be 7:00 a.m. eastern time for us, 1:00 p.m. local time tomorrow in geneva when it all starts. that's when putin will arrive. the swiss president will greet him at the facility and escort him into the villa.
then, after putin, president biden will arrive. the swiss president will greet him and bring him in too. and then, biden and putin will hold their bilateral meeting, and that's a very small meeting. it's the two of them, each side will have an interpreter, and then each side will also have their top diplomat so for biden, it will be secretary of state antony blinken. for putin it will be russian foreign minister sergey lavrov but that's it. after that chat, there's a second meeting that's expanded, an additional five officials joining the talks from each side. all in all, the talks are scheduled to last a total of four to five hours. former russian ambassador michael mcfaul says that at president obama's summit with putin, putin spent the whole first hour in a monologue, talking uninterruptedly about how much he hates the united states and how he feels very aggrieved by everything about the united states. so, i don't know if they've built in an hour for him to whine, but we'll see. after the talks, president putin will give a solo press