tv The Reid Out MSNBC May 17, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
to life." she's telling secrets. why not go check it out. our thanks. i'll see you tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. don't go anywhere. "the reidout" with joy reid is up next. good evening, everyone. we have a lot to get to in the next hour, including the intensifying violence in the middle east and new calls for a cease-fire from the white house. and the showdown over roe v. wade that the supreme court just agreed to take up with your rights hanging in the balance. but we begin "the reidout" with the walls closing in on donald's little buddy. congressman matt gaetz, the subject of an ongoing sex crimes investigation. that's because his former friend and so-called wingman joel greenberg has now formalized his cooperation deal with prosecutors, pleaded guilty to six of the original 33 charges initially filed against him.
including sex trafficking of a minor. the onetime florida tax collector was clad in a dark jumpsuit as he admitted to those felonies in a federal courthouse today before being remanded into custody pending sentencing. in a lengthy plea agreement, greenberg specifically affirmed that he and the minor engaged in commercial sex acts at least seven times when she was a minor. but when it comes to his cooperation, the most critical detail is that greenberg affirmed that other men who he introduced the minor too also engaged in commercial sex acts with the minor in his presence. that's consistent with some of the details greenberg outlined in a confessional letter he reportedly wrote in an attempt to obtain a pardon from the former guy as reported by "the daily beast." the main difference with that confessional letter is that the plea documents don't mention gaetz specifically. but greenberg's earlier confession reportedly does. nbc news has not seen or verified the contents of
greenberg's letter. it could be a good indication of where this investigation is heading. in another possibly ominous sign for gaetz, greenberg's lawyer hinted that there's more to come now that his client is officially cooperating. >> does my client have information that could hurt an elected official? i guess this is just, you know, must-see television. you'll just have to wait and see. >> well, if the potential implications for gaetz weren't clear enough, we also saw a plane flying a banner over the courthouse in florida today. it read tick tock matt gaetz. meanwhile the feds have questioned other witnesses in addition to greenberg who could help build a case against the congressman. investigators have interviewed more than a dozen people as part of the broader investigation. gaetz has not been charged and denied any wrongdoing and claims that he's never paid for sex. but as the probe intensifies,
he's also joking about his potential criminal exposure in a sickness-inducing speech this weekend. he portrayed the alleged serious criminal conduct as nothing more than exchanging money for naughty favors. and he even compared paying money for sex to lawmakers who get money for their districts through legislation in congress. >> i am being falsely accused of exchanging money for naughty favors, yet congress has reinstituted a process that legalizes the corrupt act of exchanging money for favors. >> joining me now is katie phang, glenn kirschner and roger sollenberger. that's a lot of guf fauing and confidence, katie, for somebody who in addition to potentially facing allegations of having sex
with a child, "the daily beast" on friday also reported that he snorted cocaine with an escort who had a no-show government job. gaetz attended a gop fund-raiser in orlando. his date was a paid escort, an amateur instagram model who led a cocaine-fueled party after the event according to two witnesses. additional sources said the pair had an ongoing financial relationship. what do you make of his seeming overconfidence, katie? >> welcome to florida politics at its worst. so this is how things happen down here in the not so sunny state, but because sunshine is the ultimate disinfectant, when you have somebody like joel greenberg, who clearly is incentivized by a substantial provision in his plea agreement to be able to cooperate with the
federal authorities, joel greenberg will be providing if not already have provided information that will inure to his benefit ultimately at his sentencing, which is scheduled in 75 days. it doesn't mean he has to give everything before the 75 days. he can do it thereafter. but the reality is gaetz can put on a poker face, but we've now gone beyond just putting bait on to fish for bigger fish, joy. i think we've now gotten to full chum in the water, and let's see what sharks we can pick up. i want to caution everyone it may not be matt gaetz. there are other florida politician who's have been implicated by the joel greenberg case, and they may also be some other people that have exposure. but right now matt gaetz has been directly implicated by joel greenberg, and the feds would never have offered him the sweetheart deal he got if they had not already vetted and corroborated the information he had provided to them. >> and, glenn, that was my question too because, you know, maybe math was not my specialty in school, but 6 and 33 are two
very different numbers. if you start off with 33 counts and you end up with 6, doesn't that mean you have to give something pretty good? >> yeah. we know -- and let me use the more acceptable legal phrase. we can reasonably infer that joel greenberg gave up blockbuster evidence against bigger fish. i've negotiated a lot of cooperation agreements in my 30 years as a prosecutor, joy. i never dealt away, you know, 27 of 33 charges. that is a sure sign that whatever joel greenberg has delivered to the prosecutors is huge. here's the thing people might note understand. as of yesterday, all of the information joel greenberg provided to prosecutors was hearsay. why? because they couldn't call joel greenberg as a witness to testify about any of it because he had a fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. by walking into court today, pleading guilty, and agreeing to
cooperate, he has extinguished his own fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. so today's an important day because today all of this incriminating information that joel greenberg has provided to the prosecutors now becomes admissible in a court of law because they can call joel greenberg to testify about it. so the dominoes are going to begin to fall. >> you know, roger sullenberger, thank you for being here. i just read earlier from your reporting that you worked on for "the daily beast," because this is -- no one knows who joel greenberg is. he's a florida tax collector. nobody cares. i would presume based on what your fellow panelists have said, the prosecutors probably carry a lot more about a bigger fish than him presumably. let's talk about matt gaetz. he seems to be living a very wildlife. i'll put it that way. >> yeah. the takeaway that i have from this plea agreement is actually pretty bad news for matt gaetz, and one of the things that i was
sort of happy to see is how much this corroborated our reporting. like lots of instances in this plea agreement, specifically one payment in particular to this 17-year-old girl we reported earlier. and they actually identified the same date, the same payment, the same memo item that we had for food. and, yeah, so gaetz has been hanging out with a guy who has been doing some pretty shady stuff. he's got, i think, $70,000 that he's spent on women for sex, and this is the plea agreement, he's admitted to spending in over 150 transactions. again, this is one of gaetz's very closest friends. he called him his wingman. that's why we used that word. i know it's a flip word. it's not joking. the joke there is on gaetz. but, yeah, this does spell pretty bad news for him up and down. we just put out an article that breaks this down for you. >> katie has opened up the possibility -- listen, there is a group of florida bros that are
all in the same camp. so i conder if it goes further than that. this is a guy named brian beute. he's the guy who was a stalking victim allegedly was stalked by greenberg at some point. he was a former opponent for tax collector. here's what he said about who was watching the store in florida. >> the state of florida's oversight system was either complicit with or failed to monitor the seminole county tax collector office. why? who is responsible for this failure? i ask our governor to initiate a thorough and exhaustive investigation into the actions of all state agencies assigned with oversight responsibilities of the seminole county tax collector office from 2016 to 2019. >> roger sollenberger, is there anyone else in elected office in florida who should be worried about this plea agreement besides matt gaetz?
>> yeah. from our research, it seems that there are actually quite a few people. you used the word "cartel." there is a medical marijuana influence campaign allegedly, you know, trying to secure political favors from matt gaetz in exchange for gifts of escorts and specifically a trip to the bahamas. this has been a focal point of investigators for some time. we've done some reporting around that. and that involves florida state elected officials, a couple of, i think, representatives, state senators actually wrapped up in a ghost candidate scheme that's also tied to greenberg. there are a bunch of nexuses to this guy over the last four years, and the original indictment, as you mentioned is 33 counts, right? it is a sprawling indictment. this guy has tried to consolidate power in this local little ring of, you know, a cartel of his friends.
i think it's going to sweep up a number of people, and gaetz is one of them, but, you know, we have some information that there are a number of other florida elected officials that are also in the crosshairs here. >> glenn, what would you do with this information like this if you were prosecuting this case? >> i would begin to ask the grand jury to vote out indictments. you know, one of the lesser discussed charges that joel greenberg pleaded guilty to today was a conspiracy to commit crimes against the united states. now, you can't plead guilty to a conspiracy unless you have co-conspirators. so we don't know who they are, and we don't know precisely what laws of the united states he and his co-conspirators were seeking to violate, but stay tuned because i have a feeling we're going to know very soon. >> very scary and gross. katie phang, this sounds to me like there's going to be a lot of discomfort in florida politics coming up. >> yeah. and, remember, it's not just
greenberg having talked to the federal authorities since november of last year. there's also some media reports that the 17 -- or the then 17-year-old girl who was the minor as referenced in the indictment and the plea agreement, that she's been talking to the authorities and having been interviewed, and that there's also media reports that matt gaetz's girlfriend has been discussing an immunity agreement as well with authorities. there's a lot going on behind the scenes. we have excellent reporting from people like roger. and, you know, ultimately, like glenn said, you have grand juries for a reason. they meet in secrecy. there's a reason why you don't know what they're presented and what they talk about, and you only know what happens when people get indicted. so matt gaetz may look like he's nonplussed, but if i were him, i would be very nervous today, especially because joel actually went through his guilty plea. >> indeed. he might want to spend a little more time also learning how to date the normal way rather than the way he apparently was doing. katie phang, thank you very much. glenn kirschner, thank you very much. roger sollenberger, welcome to the show. up next on "the reidout,"
the white house claims to be engaging in quiet intensive diplomacy with israel but there appears to be no effect as violence intense fines. rashida tlaib joins me next. plus a direct challenge to rows have wade will be argued before the 6-3 right-leaning supreme court. but are conservatives really prepared for what would follow the overturning of aborks rights? and tonight's absolute work. margie q green, the new queen of the republican party. she represents every trumpy thing the gqp stands for these days, which is mostly vulgar trolling and lies. "the reidout" continues after this.
a total of more than 200 palestinians including 59 children have been killed since the start of the crisis. 10 israelis have also died. 9 u.n. security council met yesterday with the secretary-general and members of the security council calling for an end to the violence. so far the u.s. has blocked the security council from making an official statement calling for a cease-fire. president biden spoke to benjamin netanyahu today for the second time in the last couple of weeks and expressed his support for a cease-fire in the region according to the white house. i'm joined now by nbc chief foreign correspondent richard engel. >> reporter: joy, there is now talk about a cease-fire, but here we're not seeing any evidence of it. in fact the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu just issued a statement tonight saying that after conferring with his security cabinet and the heads of the different intelligence agencies here, he gave the order for the operation to continue, that it was going well from israel's perspective and that it would go on until israel decided it would not go
on any further. hamas also is not showing any signs of backing down. then when you talk about a cease-fire, the two sides think about it very, very differently. what kind of cease fire? what are they looking for the next day? from israel's point of view -- and this is according to israeli officials i've been speaking to -- israel wants peace for peace, calm for calm. they will stop bombing the gaza strip if hamas stops firing rockets at israel and stops firing rockets at israel for a long time. they want to bomb gaza to a point in which it is no longer capable of launching rockets at israel for a long time. that's what israel wants. it wants to stop bombing in exchange for peace and quiet, and that is what israel believes it got last time after it invaded the gaza strip in 2014, was there for seven weeks. 2,000 palestinians were killed, and there's been a period from
israel's point of view of relative calm since then. in gaza, it is a totally different world. they have not been living in a situation of relative calm for the last seven years. they have been living in a relative prison where people cannot come and go. there are no job opportunities. the world, especially under president trump, forgot about the palestinians. and what hamas is hoping for and many palestinians are hoping for is that this will reignite the palestinian cause, put it back on the international agenda, get people talking about this, and come up with some sort of broader solution for the palestinian crisis that addresses the issues of refugees and jerusalem and the status of gaza, the giant open-air prison. but then finally there is this issue of hamas itself. hamas is trying to present itself as the spokesman for the palestinian people, but it is not the only spokesman. it is a group that does fire
rockets indiscriminately. it is a group that does not tolerate dissent within gaza. it is not universally popular. so there are many different factors here. when you talk about a cease-fire, though, the israelis and the palestinians and netanyahu and hamas are talking about two very different things. >> richard engel, thank you very much. i'm joined now by michigan democratic congresswoman rashida tlaib. she's the only palestinian-american member of congress, and we've been very eager to speak with you congresswoman. i want to play for you -- this is a little girl. she's 10 years old. her name is nadeen abdullatif, and she talked about the violence as well. >> i want to cry. i want to let the anger out of my body because they're killing people that they don't deserve to die. they're just living their own self. they come and kill them. we don't deserve this. >> as somebody who has family there in, you know, the
israeli/palestinian territories, i am just curious to get your perspective on all that's going on. >> yeah. the human toll on so many of the children and families that live there in the mix of all of, you know, the continued back-and-forth and the rhetoric that continues to deny them their humanity, i wish people would listen to the palestinian voices on the ground, to talk to the mothers who try to put their children next to them because if they die, they want to die together. to talk about a son who was buried with his mother, and he watched his mother die because as they were buried under the rubble, she was taking her last breaths, and he said, please don't leave me. those are the kinds of stories that need to be told behind the bombing. that under the rubble are, you know, family members. i mean i'm watching over and over again images of people, citizenry in haza pulling huge concrete for eight hours to pull a 6-year-old girl out of the
rubble or to watch a hospital continue to watch their doctors and others targeted. just today, joy, the israeli government targeted two schools. i don't even know -- the united nation schools. these are where many of the people who were bombed out of their homes were taking refuge. the continuation and targeting of so many families and children is not going to give anybody a sense of security, but it's also really important, joy, to know that israel's own human rights organization has said that israel is an apartheid state. the human rights watch just came out with a report saying that. this form of oppression, the chronic poverty that comes with it, the discrimination and racism that comes with it, this is what leads to a lawless, you know, not held accountable country of israel which continues to be like the fourth largest military, you know, a superpower in the region, and they seem to be dead on set to
deny palestinians their humanity. >> you know, and when you talk about apartheid, i can remember john kerry talking about the risk that israel would fall into apartheid if things didn't change. i covered this in 2014 when 2,000 people died. i have to say, congresswoman, i've been following this from a distance for a really long time, and i've never felt like americans really care that much about palestinians. as you said, they don't hear palestinian voices. there seems to be no empathy. gaza is a prison. so i wonder when you see 28 senate democrats sign a statement saying, you know, that there should be a cease-fire, which seems like a step forward, but then when you see the white house put out two statements so far, the second of which reads much like the first, the president reiterated his firm support for israel's right to defend itself against indiscriminate rocket attacks. he encouraged israel to make every effort to ensure the protection of innocent
civilians. this is a member of your party. >> yeah. >> do you feel any empathy coming from the white house? have they called you to talk to you? you have family that you could give a perspective. do you feel like they care? >> they are engaging me now finally after four months of me sending letters with colleagues, talking about home demolitions, talking about the attack on palestinians living in israel. i mean their january 6th is happening right now daily in their lives and their own neighborhoods being attacked by mobs because they're palestinian. they're targeted because of their ethnicity. you know, joy, it is really hard because any of my colleagues that even have a sort of empathy towards palestinians, they do it quietly with whispering because they continue to be intimidated and bullied by those that want to continue the status quo of apartheid in israel. they want to continue to have that power and hold, and they literally brush over palestinians as somehow inherently violent, that they
don't deserve human rights. and that's what's missing in the statements coming from president biden. you don't hear the words "palestinians deserve human rights," that palestinians deserve to exist, that palestinians deserve to live freely, that children need to be safe and secure. you only hear it when they talk about israeli citizens that are of a certain faith. that's what's telling about what's happening. and, joy, you saw in the month of ramadan, holy month of ramadan for muslims, worshippers kneeling to pray to god are being attacked by the israeli government prior to all the other attacks that happened. a lot of that is stemmed in the continuation of racism and policies within israel being led by the right-wing party of netanyahu. >> and he has some political considerations too. are you surprised that his -- you know, is corruption investigations and the fact that he has aligned himself with a really far-right party, that even people who are very
friendly to israel have called openly racist, that that doesn't change the way that democrats in general -- other than your girls of the squad have been standing by you and very vocal and some democratic senators. but are you surprised that netanyahu's own politics don't change the equation the way the united states deals with that country? >> absolutely. it's shocking. the hypocrisy of us saying that we need to be stewards of human rights except for palestinians, and they're taking orders. that's exactly what's happening. they're taking orders from netanyahu, who is on corruption charges for stealing from his own people, the people he's supposed to be representing. and currently many of of the israeli media, folks in israel have been more critical of netanyahu's right-wing policies, his corruption, more than here at home in the united states. so i hope that my president, our president, speaks up and speaks truth about what exactly is happening because i know they know. and i know they're enabling it by sitting there and saying these kinds of passive language that is not going to hold a
lawless, very much a corrupted country right now that has set an apartheid state. it is very clear to many people that live there, including some of the israeli citizens who have came out and opposed netanyahu very forcefully, that enough with this kind of discrimination and racism. these are our neighbors. these are children that we're raising our children with. enough. you know, joy, it's hard because, you know, as i talk to my palestinian family at home, they tell me, please don't cry for us. and i was like, of course i'm going to cry for you. this is -- you know, i want you to know that there are americans here that care about you. there are millions of americans that believe in me, in what i'm saying, that we got to stop investing in an apartheid state of israel, that we need to condition that money, that we continue to send weaponry and assault weapons to israel, that continues to target innocent lives. and so, joy, it is so incredibly hard because when i got elected,
it was my cousin that said, you know, rashida, we actually thought americans turned their backs on palestinians until you got elected. now we know that it isn't everybody here in the united states, and i want to make it clear to all the palestinians. i know it's hard to hear now under attack. but americans are standing strong, and they're standing and saying, enough, president biden. you will not do this on our watch. you have to speak out against this violence in a very aggressive way that holds netanyahu and his leadership accountable. >> congresswoman rashida tlaib, i can tell you a lot of people care, and so you can tell your family members folks do care. thank you very much for spending some time with us this evening. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, the conservative-led supreme court has agreed to take up mississippi's restrictive abortion law, and women's reproductive rights appear to be in serious, serious danger. it's straight out of the handmaid's tale with a gilead-style government right here in america. stay with us.
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spring of 2022 will be a seminal moment for women's reproductive rights because it looks like the supreme court is set to diminish the protections of roe v. wade. it's a terrifying prospect eerily reminiscent "the handmaid's tale," a country where women and their bodies were under the complete control of almost extravagantly corrupt and hypocritical men of god, quote, unquote. what's so scary and frankly traumatizing about that show and the book that inspired it is that it starts off in the very place that we live in right now
where women have the right to choose what they do with their bodies until they don't. and then in what seems like a blink of an eye, those rights were just gone. naturally abortion opponents are thrilled given the new conservative makeup of the court, especially after the arrival of justice amy coney barrett. under his eye. barrett could join chief justice roberts, justices alito, kavanaugh, gorsuch and thomas, who have all expressed an interest in rolling back reproductive rights. according to the gut democracier institute, there are 21 states have passed aggressively restrictive law. mississippi is one of ten states with trigger bans that would prohibit abortion if roe v. wade falls. without strong protection, women would have to hopscotch across the country at whatever expense, maybe too much expense for women who aren't rich, to seek safe harbor in one of the 14 states and washington, d.c. that do respect a woman's right to choose. according to pew research,
nearly 60% of americans believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases. joining me now, senator mazie hirono of hawaii, a member of the senate judiciary committee. senator, earlier today, your former colleague, our friend claire mccaskill, said she called this potential ruling, which i think we have to assume will go in the direction that the far right sort of religious right wants it to go, that it would be like the dog catching the car. so i guess my question to you, i hope we're not losing your shot. we're going to make sure that we do have the senator's shot. do we have it? we don't have it. okay. we're going to hold on for just one second. we're going to give it one more second. if not, we may have to take a break and come back. how are we looking? live tv. okay. let's take a break. we'll come right back. we'll come right back. ?
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mazie hirono of hawaii. i'm glad we got you back, senator. thank you for your patience. what i was saying to you before the break was that, you know, your former colleague, claire mccaskill, our friend, she said that overturning roe, which this ruling could at least cripple roe in a lot of ways, would be like, you know, the dog catching the car because i wonder what then? if the right gets what they want and roe is crippled, then what happens? >>. [ inaudible ] >> uh-oh. >> unfortunately i am so sorry, guys. we really want to do this segment, but it is just not working out for us with this shot. we're going to take another break. we're going to try to fix the tech. this is the world of skype. this is the world that it is. we'll be right back.
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since donald trump has been crowned king of the republican party, then who's the queen? i mean it's not melania. she doesn't even seem to like him. i guess it must be this jaunty little stalker. i mean isn't it clear that it's their party, donald trump and marjorie q. green's? they rule it. they own it. of course queen marjorie q. makes perfect sense. she ran in a ruby red district in georgia where she didn't even live, bran dishing assault weapons in her ads, vowing to save america from itself, but apparently not to use her powers to save teenage girls from matt gaetz allegedly. she has said democratic officials should be executed, that muslims don't belong in government, and school shootings were staged. she also blamed a california wildfire on a jewish controlled laser beam from outer space. a laser beam spr space.
this is real life. what marjorie q is best known for her is terrorizing her colleagues, especially congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. marge even harassed aoc when she was still a private citizen back in 2019, back in the day when her jam was following teenagers down the street yelling at them about guns. here she is at aoc's door. >> alexandria ocasio-cortez, i'm an american citizen. i pay your salary through the taxes that you collect from me through the irs. you need to get rid of your diaper and come out and be able to talk to the american citizens instead of us having to use a flap. >> it's ocasio, weirdo. harassing someone, anyone, through their mail slot is never okay. but her tom foolery is now happening as a member of congress. her relentless obsession with aoc is a security threat. margie q is benefiting off of all this behavior, fund-raising off of these antics.
this bully wreaking havoc on the hill tells you everything you need to know about these once sacred halls of congress. republicans refuse to do a single thing about their colleague, who now serves as an actual threat to members of congress because they too benefit from trump grievance politics where talent and skill and character are flaws and where toxic dumpster fire entertainment means more than representing the people. that is why the republican party bowing down to its king and queen is indeed the absolute worst. i'm joined now by republican strategist susan del percio and dana milbank. dana, you wrote colleagues recently about margie q. greene. the political calculation seems to be they'd rather have the rach ed people because at least they can raise money off of them and trump. i wonder what that means -- is that the politics that makes sense in your view? >> yeah. i was talking with adam
kinzinger about her recently, and he described her as a grifter. i think that's what it is. she just sees what the opportunity is in republican politics, and the opportunity right now is in making a scene, saying the most extreme things, and wrapping yourself all the way to the extent possible around donald trump. now, she has done this perhaps better than anybody with the exception of matt gaetz, and we see that's where it's getting them. but she has become something of the de facto leader of the caucus. we're all focusing on, you know, elise stefanik, but really, you know, the minority leader, kevin mccarthy, is scared to death to cross her. that's why he doesn't do anything when she accosts aoc and chases her down a hallway. so it's really an extraordinary thing where they're being led by this -- this first-term qanon. >> you know, and i wonder, you
know, and we unfortunately lost the shot in our last block. we had a little bit of trouble with skype. we had senator mazie hirono on to talk about the abortion rights issue. the leaders of the party, the teeny dater but apparently who doesn't bother qanon, margie q. greene who is qanon. lauren bow vert, it's a whole -- madison cawthorn, whose dream vacay was hitler's bungalow. you go on and on and on. this sort of freak show that the republican party is. you add that to the arizona bananas recount, which even a republican local official said, this is insane. donald trump saying that it's -- it's unhinged because they said, well, they dumped all the ballots. you combine that with now the far right is on the brink of taking away women's right to choose, i wonder how you run any campaigns in the suburbs after that. >> it will be difficult, and we
have to look at the republican party now, that it is a campaign -- rather, it's a party of personalities, not policies. they have nothing. when you see marjorie taylor greene as a leading voice in the party, you unfortunately i think we can go lower, the republican party can go lower. but she doesn't even have a committee and she was a top fundraiser in congress. she is bananas crazy and believes in jewish lasers and all this other nonsense and yet no one -- it really angers me, sorry, joy. her colleagues down there know better. there are serious members of congress there who know better and who should be speaking out. i do not know why this falls on liz cheney to say, don't believe the big lie and why other members of congress, even under, you know, with the protection of
her skirt, if you will, come out and say something. it's not that hard to speak the truth and take down some of this nonsense. if they don't, they will be deemed not serious, and i've bep -- been saying this for a while, joy. i truly believe the state parties will elect more crazy wackadoo candidates and that the republicans are in danger of not taking back the house because they're going to lose a ton of seats that they won in 2020. >> and i wonder about that, too. just as political sort of management of your politics, essentially you're saying that to be in our party, you need to think that -- what do they call themselves, the cyber ninjas, a serious organization that should be doing recounts. 60% of republicans, people who call themselves republicans still, do not believe that the president of the united states is a legitimate president of the
united states, so there goes another way to get in. and there's liz cheney talking about the impeachment vote and maybe one of the incentives for the people who know better play along. listen to liz cheney. >> if you look at the vote to impeach, for example, there were members who told me that they were afraid for their own security, afraid in some instances for their lives. and that tells you something about where we are as a country. >> dana milbank feared for their lives. meaning that even fellow republicans believe their own base are dangerous people. >> you know, it would be funny if the consequences weren't so dire. you can probably count -- i've heard this from many members -- on the fingers of both hands how many republicans in congress actually believe that there was some skullduggery in the election, that it wasn't legitimately won by joe biden, and yet there is this collective
action problem where they're all frightened. the fact the poll is 67%, i'm surprised it's not higher, because 99% of republicans in washington are saying the election was stolen or the election wasn't legitimate. so i think in a way the elected republicans are outdoing the base in terms of crazy. they think they're crazier than they actually are. a third of republicans are saying no matter what they're hearing from elected republicans in washington, no, we actually understand this was a legitimate election. there is a bigger market for the truth even by republicans than we think right now. >> or you're seeing fewer and fewer republicans. i've seen people are too embarrassed to call themselves republicans. isn't that the growing party right now, people that are so embarrassed by these shenanigans that they're becoming independents. >> that's right, and in 2004, we saw a lot of republicans change
pho being independent because they didn't want to be associated with the war and george w. bush. now we are seeing not only are they changing their registration, people aren't registering. why would you join the party? i mean, i ask myself every day why i'm still in it. i can't imagine actually signing up for it right now. but the party doesn't care. i think dana made a great, great point that people in washington have no idea how their constituents feel. a lot of them want to move on and believe that the president was legit -- you know, legitimately elected, because he was. so i think that they're misplaying their hand. >> i can tell you one of the reasons when you hear interviews and you talk with republicans ask people who stay in it, abortion. abortion is why they stay in it. susan and dana, please stay with me because i want to have you here in case this doesn't work. we're going to try one more time to bring in the senator from
hawaii. senator, i hope you're still there. >> i am, joy. >> wonderful, wonderful. the power of the telephone. i have heard interviews with republicans who know all of the weirdness that's going on, the fact that marjorie greene who is not a serious person basically is the leading party alongside donald trump. they're horrified of all that, children in cages. you show them all that and they say abortion, abortion, abortion. this is a key issue for a lot of americans. there is a lot of fear, i think. a lot of women are waking up to hear you may lose your right to abortion, even to get access to the pill. i will ask again, what happens if roe goes down? then what? >> then there is no longer a constitutionally protected right for a woman to have control over her own body. what's going to happen is all these states are going to continue to pass these kinds of limiting laws, that's what's going to happen. you're right, joy, one morning
young women in our country are going to wake up and they no longer control their own bodies. this has been going on for years, the women's right to choose. >> it feels like it's been going on for years, but it always seems like the republicans want the issue more than the win. because if they get the win, they have to deal with the consequences of implementing this handmaid future. women aren't going to just sit down and take it. i wonder if the politics would shift if, in fact, they get what they want. >> right now they think they're at the brink of getting what they want because the supreme court is taking up the mississippi case. and why would this court take up this case only to reaffirm roe v. wade? so you have alito, thomas, gorsuch, and now barrett and who knows, they may be joined by the chief justice to undo roe v. wade. this is what's being set up by state legislatures all across the country. hundreds and hundreds of these kinds of restrictive laws being
contemplated and some passed. >> i reference the handmaid's tale a lot because one of the things that happen is this group violently takes over and secedes and forms their own government. it is a hard right value to control women. i don't think this is about children because these same people are not in favor of universal preschool or health care for kids, they don't care if kids are locked in cages. it's about women, it's about controlling women. >> exactly. >> i wonder if democratic women have not been focused enough on the fact that these people are serious about controlling women's lives and bodies, and whether people like susan collins just got duped by people like brett kavanaugh or whether no one is taking it seriously enough. >> there are a lot of people taking it seriously, and especially the right wing. they have been setting this up with dark money to get gorsuch, kavanaugh and barrett on the supreme court to the tune of millions. somebody said when climate change comes up, republicans say
i'm not a scientist, but when a woman's health issue is being discussed, they're all gynecologists. they truly don't want to have us control our own bodies. you know, there's no other explanation, because hypocrisy doesn't even factor into what they're doing. >> you have the same sets of people who also say that my body, my choice when it comes to masks because they essentially say i have the right to spread a deadly disease, right, but women don't have a right to decide about childbirth. go ahead, your comment. >> how fundamental could it be that a woman should be able to control her own body? how fundamental is that. we don't have anything like that infringing on a man. there is nothing comparable telling a man you have to do whatever it is -- anyway, there is nothing comparable, but this has been ongoing. the anti-abortion, anti-choice
crowd finally think they have a supreme court that's going to go their way. >> and they probably do. so is this changing the conversation in the democratic caucus about expanding the supreme court or legislaing to protect a woman's right to choose? >> there are already bills to do that, as you probably know. this is why, when the court is so far to the right, and it's no longer, in my view, an objective court on so many of these issues, then we talk about expanding the court. there is nothing written in the constitution about the size of the court. you can cycle circuit judges through the courts, you can have term limits, though that's not going to impact certain members of the supreme court. there are a number of things that need to happen because we now have hundreds of these kinds of totally conservative right wing on the issue of abortion, but on climate change, voting rights, lgbtq rights, they're all making their way to this
very, very conservative, idealogically driven supreme court. >> yeah, it is a scary world. just when you think you're sort of out of the woods, the extremism rears its ugly head again. we'll all be holding our breath awaiting this decision. senator mazie hirono, thank you for being with us, and dana, thank you for sticking with us in case that call didn't happen. "all in with chris hayes" is now. for the first time since the pandemic began, pandemic cases are down in all 50 states. >> great news on covid, confusing news on masks. dr. anthony fauci is here to talk about all of it tonight. then -- if you didn't know the tv footage was a video from january the 6th, you would think it was a normal tour visit. >> the congressm