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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 27, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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we are not supposed to call the state of the union. but it is the state of the union. our special coverage of the speech starts tomorrow night at 8 pm eastern. i will be here tomorrow night, an hour earlier than i am. to be a part of that special coverage, starting at 8 pm eastern. i will see the. now it's time for the last word lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. good evening rachel and see you in that coverage tomorrow night too. i will be joining the discussion. we have congressman jim clyburn joining us tonight, rachel. to discuss what he expects to hear in that speech tomorrow and we have so much to do in this hour that congressman jim clyburn will get the last word in this hour. because we have so much leading up to that. we have the lead prosecutors from the derek chauvin murder trial joining us, starting off tonight. this is when i get nervous rachel, because i have in awe of these lawyers. in the masterful job they did in court, and so i have been looking forward to this, since every day i was watching them in court actually. >> i will tell you,
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news meeting with my staff and talking people in the building today, everyone is very excited you've got these lawyers. i haven't heard these prosecutors speak outside the courtroom, other than the immediate aftermath of that historic case. i'm in awe that you've got them and i'm not going to help you believe any less nervous about it. >> we are lucky to have them. thank you rachel. >> thanks lawrence good. look >> i grew up in courtrooms. courtrooms and baseball fields i guess. i have been to more trials than i can remember. my final other became a lawyer when i was a baby. he went to night school, for college and law school while he was working full-time as a boston police officer. it was after years of sitting on the witness stand as a police officer, and thinking that he could do a better job than the lawyers who were questioning him. that he decided to become a lawyer. lawyer-ing would not
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have look so easy for him, from that witness stand, if he had been questioned by our first two guests tonight. but we had prosecutors in the trial of derek chauvin, for the murder of george floyd. my father would have known, he was seeing the very best trial lawyers at work. my father took his kids to work decades before it became a thing. i was still an elementary school when i watch my father argue his first case to the united states supreme court, in which he convinced the court to overturn the bank robbery convictions of two black men, based on the faulty identification of those defendants. i wrote a book in 1983, about the most important thing my father ever did as a lawyer. the book is called deadly force. and it tells the story of a civil rights law wrongful death lawsuit, that he won in federal court against you boston police officers who shot an unarmed 25-year-old black man, in the back in the
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back of the head. my father was 57 years old, when he won that case, and he knew then, that that was the most important thing, that he ever did in his life as a lawyer. he knew then, that in 20 more years in courtrooms, he would not do anything as important. sometimes you know. sometimes you know, when you're standing on the top of that mountain, that you began climbing in high school, when you are doing your homework, and in college when you are preparing to take the l sats, and all of those dreary nights in law school when you are trying to drill those sometimes maddening legal phrases into your head. only to be followed after graduation from law school, by the agony of the study for the bar exam that, you must pass to be licensed as a lawyer. sometimes you know. you know, it was all for this. it was all for this trial. and that is what, that
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is what it looked like to me. when i watched our first guests tonight. jerry blackwell and steve schleicher, prosecute derek chauvin. it looked like they knew, that they were doing the most important thing they had ever done. and probably would ever do as lawyers. when you spend a lot of time in courtrooms, you can get the feeling that you have seen it all. but that is never true because every case is different and every lawyer is different. the truth is most lawyers are not very good. and great lawyers are very, very rare. my father was the greatest trial lawyer i have ever seen. and i've only seen a handful of others, who i would describe as great. i'm saying all of this, i'm sharing all of this personal perspective with you tonight, only because i want you to understand, and i hope you will share, the odd that i feel for our first guests tonight. jerry blackwell and steven schleicher are the lead prosecutors in the derek chauvin trial. they were joined
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by matthew frank and erin eldridge, who did great work in examining witnesses during the trial. i have never seen a prosecution case presented so faultlessly in a courtroom. a trial is a free fire zone where anything can go wrong and usually something does. you get hit with an objection that you did not expect, or one of your witnesses weakens under cross examination. none of that happened to the prosecution in this case. jerry blackwell and steven schleicher conducted the most masterful criminal prosecution i have ever seen, and they did it under the most pressure i have ever seen. with the whole world watching. jerry blackwell was the first lawyer to speak in the trial. delivering the prosecutions opening statement. >> you will learn, that on may 25th of 2020, make your derek chauvin
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betrayed his badge. when he used excessive and unreasonable force. you will that he put his knees up on his neck and his back. grinding in crushing him, until the very breath, until the very life was squeezed thought of him. you will learn that he was well aware that mr. floyd was unarmed. that mr. floyd had not threatened anyone. that mr. floyd was in handcuffs. he was completely in the control of the police. he was defenseless. you will learn what happened, in that nine minutes and 29 seconds. the most important numbers you will hear in this trial, 9 2 9. what happened in those nine minutes 29 seconds. when mr. derek chauvin was applying this excessive force to the body of mr. george floyd. >> and after having
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proved all of that, 21 days later, steve schleicher delivered his final argument to the jury. this case is exactly what you thought when you saw it first. when you saw that video. exactly that. you can believe your eyes. it's exactly what you believed, it's exactly what you saw with your eyes, it's exactly what you knew. it's what you felt in your gut. it's what you now know in your heart. this wasn't policing. this was murder. the defendant is guilty of all three counts. all of it. and there is no excuse. >> final argument came next and
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tried without evidence to blame george floyd's cause of death on george floyd's heart. jerry blackwell got the last word in the trial with his rebuttal up that defense argument. >> here's what i thought was the largest departure from the evidence. i'll show it to you. you were told, for example, that mr. floyd died, that mr. door floyd died because his heart was too big. you heard that testimony. and now having seen all the evidence, having heard all the evidence, you know the truth. and the truth of the matter is that the reason george floyd is dead is because mr. chauvin's heart was too small. >> joining us now, the lead prosecutors in the derek chauvin trial jerry blackwell and steve schleicher, thank you very much both of you for joining us tonight. it really is an honor to have
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you with us. i want to begin with that time you spent which is always the most agonizing time in a trial for trial lawyers. waiting for the jury. and jerry blackwell, you didn't have to wait long and there were no questions from the jurors before they said they were ready to return a verdict. so did you believe as i did that they were coming back with a guilty? >> well, we were certainly cautiously optimistic but that was the case. the jury had come back awfully quickly and it seemed too quickly for them to have debated a great deal and we expected to be in favor the prosecution but we weren't prepared also to have perhaps the biggest shock, perhaps the in prosecution history if the jury didn't cause jurors didn't couldn't do anything. we are optimistic that that was in favor the prosecution. >> steve, you made that ask at the end of your argument for
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the guilty's on all counts, specifically on all counts and one thing that i expected from this jury was that there would be some question when there's multiple counts, always some question about how do we sort these out and what are many options and that's why when they had absolutely no questions at all, it seems to me if they're gonna come back that fast they're going to come back with exactly where you ask for. >> lawrence, that's what we thought to. i think we spent some time during the closing to really go through and explain to the jurors and teach them about the law, what the law required, with the law required for each element of each count. it's a really, you know, give them a guidebook because when they're back in the deliberations room that's all they have. they have their memory, they have their notebooks, they're taking notes furiously the entire trial and they have
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those jury instructions that the court gives them. and so we thought it was important to go through and make sure they understood what would be required and not leave anything to chance. so we spent some time there. >> the -- you are always guessing during the trial and it's always a guess what's the most important moment and there were plenty of moments in the trial that we identified on this program that night is being crucially important to the jury. it turns out we were right about one of them because one of the alternate jurors has spoken about this. let's listen to gabe gutierrez his interview with lisa christiansen when she was asked who is the most important witness, let's listen to this. >> what stuck in my mind, like i said i was close to the witness stand and her words of apologizing to mr. floyd that night over and over that she couldn't sleep and she was sorry that she couldn't do more to save his life, that was pretty impactful to me. it hurt me. >> well, that one was actually
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about darnella frazier. there's another question answer about who she thought was the most important witness which will get to later but let's take a look at that moment that she's talking about because, jerry, that's when your questioning darnella frazier and she talks about how she feels and what regrets she has. let's listen to that. >> when i look at george floyd, i look at my dad. i look at my brothers, i look at my cousins, my uncles because they are all black. i have a black father, i have a black brother, i have a black friends. and i look at that and i look at how that could've been one of them. it's been nights i've stayed up apologizing and apologizing to george floyd for not doing more and not physically interacting and not saving his life, but it's not what i should've done
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it's what he should have done. >> jerry, that was one of those cases where we are not allowed to see the witness but that answer looked like it really got to you. >> it certainly did. just because of the humanity of it. i mean, here was a teenager who had encountered on the street a stranger who was suffering. she didn't know him. all that she knew was his humanity that she saw, that he was defenseless that he was subdued by the police and he was suffering and he was suffering needlessly and she had a human desire to try to intervene, to stop the suffering to try to save his life and to see the kind of guilt and remorse and frankly
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responsibility she felt almost a year after the fact was just touching and moving and it spoke to her humanity and it was a rebuttal to the argument that she and others were simply part of an unruly crowd. and it was nothing unruly about it. it was a very human crowd, and as you know i described it as a bouquet of humanity for the diversity and all of them but they were simply human beings for the most part who didn't know each other and who were simply responding to human call to the need for help and i thought was a wonderful example of what it means to love a neighbor and a wonderful example of what it means to care and one that had officers chauvin adopted them that evening, george floyd would likely still be alive. >> and steve, lisa christiansen said the most important witness was dr. tobin. you were watching jerry examine
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dr. tobin. sometimes you have a better feel for how it's landing as you get to keep an eye on the jury and she talked specifically about dr. tobin mentioning the moment when the life went out of george floyd's body and she said that was the single most important moment for her. >> it's such a powerful moment in court and from a witness who, you know, has given his life to science and really came forward in this case to be able to help. just a desire to help and use science and medicine to do so. and for someone as intelligent as dr. tobin is, to be able to communicate with the jury, to teach them, to explain to things in a way when he was motioning and touching his neck doing the same thing. it was a powerful moment and describing the precise moment that life left george floyd. it was powerful, it was heartbreaking.
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>> there was another moment that juror said stood out to her and really bothered her and that was when one of the defense witnesses barry broad who claims to be an expert and police tactics talked about george floyd on the pavement resting comfortably. let's take a look at that. >> what part of this is not compliant? i see his arm position, and it's a compliant person would have their hands on the small of their back in with just be resting comfortably versus he is still moving around. >> did you say resting comfortably? >> or laying comfortably. >> resting comfortably on the pavement? >> yes. >> at this point in time, when he is attempting to breathe by shoving his shoulder into the pavement. >> i was describing what the signs of a perfectly compliant person would be. >> so attempting to breathe
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while restrained is being slightly noncompliant? >> no. >> no. >> jerry, i want to go to you on this one because steve won't brag about it i'm sure but it's one of those moments where you don't know that word is coming you watched steve jump on it, handle it and it worked on the jury according to this one juror interview exactly the way it appeared to. >> no absolutely, i thought it was the one exchange that was essentially the indictment, the symbolic indictment of his entire testimony in terms of credibility. it displayed that level of frankly insensitivity. >> lawrence that was outrageous testimony. starting off with the premise that this wasn't a use of force, it really was outrageous. because understand that that
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premise, that this wasn't a use of force is kind of a technical explanation but that it's a restraint hold, likely to not produce pain. how could you look at that and look at what was happening and make those words come out of your mouth that this wasn't likely to produce pain? and so just from the beginning, just from his direct examination it certainly, i thought, was outrageous testimony and the explanation of his testimony on cross certainly didn't get any better. >> no. >> all right, let me squeeze in a commercial break here and please stay with us both of you when we come back i want to get erection on what minnesota's attorney general keith ellison said he thinks was the most important moment and the trial will be right back with jerry blackwell and steve slischer. wet teddy bears! wet teddy bears here!
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keith ellison assembled the prosecution team in the trial of derek chauvin for the murder of george floyd in here is what keith ellison now says was the most important moment in the trial. >> do you need a minute? >> oh my god.
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>> and the lead prosecutors of the case are back with us, jerry blackwell and steve sleischer jerry, that's the kind of moment that you can't prepare for. you prepare your witness, as you prepare your evidence, you lineup your exhibits but then something like that happens. what was your reaction in the courtroom when that happened? >> it just grabs your heart to see and feel that from -- it was from mr. mcmillon and it just spoke not only to his humanity is one of the bystanders but again he's very important for conveying to the jurors that again, this was not some unruly crowd, an unruly mob that was interested in interfering with the police. that you saw the kind of grief and anguish that mr. mcmillon felt over the sense of
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helplessness and the fact that they had so much respect, frankly for the badge and the policing that they didn't intervene. with those bystanders that could have easily pushed mr. chauvin and the rest of them off of mr. floyd but it was their respect for the authority that they didn't do that and no doubt fear of themselves being harmed. and as you know, any number of the bystanders instead called the police because of the misconduct but mr. mick nolin was still torn up a year after the fact over his sense of just helplessness and not being able to do anything to say this man's life that he saw dying one breath at a time. >> you both came out of -- came from private practice as volunteers in this case, both of you working for nothing, not taking a paycheck for it. steve, your former prosecutor at the county state and federal level. what made you decide to leave your private practice to come and take on this burden and
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what did that burden feel like in the courtroom? >> well, people talk about receiving a call. i received a call right literally, it was from the attorney general keith ellison called me, i had never spoken with him before. and he asked me if i would help. i had over two decades of prosecution experience, i've tried quite a few murder cases. i've prosecuted police officers before and for me it was very easy. the attorney general of your state calls for ask for help, you say yes, you do that. as attorneys, we practice in a profession that's a noble profession and it's a privilege. it's a privilege to practice law. it's a privilege to make a living in the practice of law and serving others. it's a joy to be able to practice with your friends. and of course when he called and asked, i wanted to help. my firm allowed me to do so. they allow pro-bono opportunities. they've always allowed attorneys to follow their heart,
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they allowed me to do that. and we do have a special responsibility as attorneys. i think we have an excellent bar in minnesota. people who are committed to pro bono, but you know i went to school, public schools, i didn't build on roads. i didn't create, right? and at some point you owe something back to the state it's been so good to you so i was privileged to help. >> jerry, why did you decide to join the case? and what did it feel like when you are in the courtroom? did it feel like this is why you became a lawyer, this is where you needed to be? >> the question in reverse, it did feel like this is why i became a lawyer and where i was supposed to be. i formed the idea of becoming a lawyer in the second grade. frankly because i liked to read and it made my mother proud to see me read and she said you should be a lawyer so i thought that's a good thing, if it makes my mother happy.
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and i remember letting go but for me lawrence what most people wouldn't realize that this was my first foray into criminal law in the first criminal case i had ever been involved in. and i primarily try cases for fortune 500 companies around the country. this to me was more a moment, it was one of those moments where everything within me, every fiber sort of resonated that this is a time to stand up, to be counted, to do what you can for just the cause of good and right. i didn't know how it would affect my practice. i didn't give any thought for myself and that i simply wanted to be involved for whatever skills i had to bring about justice in this case. and it was thereafter that i got a call from the attorney general and it was all matched up, i said yes and i thought would have i done?
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and your first criminal case and at that point i was committed to its a win lose, whether i was embarrassed or not i committed to seeing this through to the end and that's what i did. >> well, you made history doing it. are either or both of you going to be involved in the prosecution of the other officers that will be in august? >> the team is intact. will be there. >> okay great, we'll be watching that. jerry blackwell, steve slush i cannot thank you enough for joining us tonight. this is really an honor for me. it's just a thrill to be able to talk to you, really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you lawrence. >> thank you so much lawrence, you have a good night. >> thank you. >> and after this break, mark claxton and kirk burkhalter will join us. stay with us for every moment of the coverage of that trial. they'll join us next.
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described to the jury the witnesses on the sidewalk who watch derek chauvin murder george floyd. >> >> they tried to interject, to exhort, to please stop, to get into good trouble with just their voices because something there was concerning to them. and when that didn't work, you can see any number of them pulled out their cameras to document what was happening. such that it would be memorialized, such that it would not be misrepresented, such that it could not be forgotten. >> so it couldn't be forgotten. joining our discussion now, kirk burkhalter criminal law professor at new york law school where he is the director of the 21st century policing project and mark claxton, director of the black law enforcement alliance. both are former nypd police detectives and both joined us and every day of our coverage of this trial. kirk, i want to start with you
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on what is the news of that segment and that is that this same prosecution team will be going back into the courtroom on august 23rd in minneapolis to prosecute the other three officers in the case. what does that mean when you see this same prosecution team holding together, having assembled the evidence so well already in this case going back at it? >> well, lawrence, it means quite frankly that you will see i hate to do it in terms of a sports analogy but round two. they worked together, they know each other well, they put on a masterful case against derek chauvin and i think we can expect more of the same. you know, i tell my students quite often that you don't have to be perfect, you just have to be better than everyone else. and they demonstrated that they can be better than everyone else. they're well prepared, they anticipate their defense so i think that we will see them continue to succeed in this vein and let's not forget that this jury was swayed by the
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evidence and i would certainly think that if this matter continues on to trial when the other three defendants, i would not be surprised if that jury was swayed by the breath of the evidence also. >> mark claxton, we now know that part of what was so solid and so powerful about this prosecution is that it was driven by a sense of moral duty by these two lawyers who were doing fine out there in private practice and they did not need this work at all and they accepted the attorney general's invitation request to do it. they did it for no money. they did it, as jerry blackwell just told us, because it was a moral moment that he needed to stand up. >> yeah, and also what's significant in your interview really displayed this quite clearly is that they are genuinely humble people. they come across very humble. they come across very sincere,
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are very deliberate. the tone and tenor in court during the presentation, during the prosecution when they were asking questions was the same as they were answering questions to you and perhaps both significant is they each indicated at different points that they were personally invested and involved. that they were personally offended or concerned by the conduct of derek chauvin. they were invested in the case so with more than just a simple process, it was more than just going through the motions and aside from the tone and tenant really displaying that they actually indicated that they had a personal investment and it. they had skin in the game and they seem to be very pleased with the level of investment that they made to the case and committed to going all the way with it. >> kirk, i'm so glad that they were able to join us tonight because one thing we never got to do and our coverage was the night where we just praised
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this prosecution team and what a great job they did because as the case was moving with the evidence, the evidence is moving so quickly and we're trying to evaluate each piece a bit as it came through each day and very suddenly very quickly we got it verdict. and so in that wave, we never were able to take that pause and say wow, what you're seeing here is the best possible law school tutorial in trial practice. >> lawrence, what really stood out to me amongst many things, many things masterfully one was a narrative, telling a story. a logical cadence in the case. but most importantly, rebutting the defenses case before the defense had an opportunity to put it on and doing so so artfully without naming your adversary, without pointing to your adversary so the door was shut before the defense even testified. and that is something that is difficult to train, that i think many lawyers pick up at some point but it also goes to
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the art of what you mentioned with regards to your father and many lawyers out there. preparation. nights and nights on and. you don't roll it dice and a court of law. you walk into the court to win and that's what they did. and they were prepared. and you win by understanding your adversary's case and it was just masterful how they put that on and as you mentioned, you could run a clinic by showing the progression of the case and how they presented all the evidence and testimony. >> gentlemen, please stay with us i want to squeeze in a commercial break i want to consider another case after this commercial break. another -- we have new developments in the police killing of andrew brown in north carolina today. the family released an independent autopsy. north carolina's governor is now calling for a special prosecutor. now calling for a specia
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of andrew brown released a north carolina death certificate saying andrew brown 's death was a homicide and that the immediate cause was a penetrating gunshot wound of the head. lawyers for the family also released a private autopsy report paid for by the brown family which shows that andrew brown was hit by four bullets in his right arm which were not fatal wounds and the bullet on the back of his head which was the cause of death. those bullets were fired by police officers approaching andrew brown's car as he tried to drive out of his driveway, turning benjamin crump described it as quote, militarized police force rushing to kill andrew brown. back with us, kirk burkhalter and mark claxton, both former nypd police detectives. mark, let me get your reaction to these new developments in the case. fbi is now investigating governor says there should be a special prosecutor. >> i have some very serious concerns about the case and those concerns extend beyond my concerns about the the damage
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that's done to the integrity of the detective itself and the backwards manner in which the government and sheriff's department has been handling this thus far. but my concerns extend into the integrity of the investigation itself and though it is important and it is a positive step that they have decided to enter the investigation, but my concern is what damage has already been done. you know, there's a lot of information, a lot of evidence that you can't go back and regenerate. you can't reprocess that crime scene and gather any additional forensic evidence. you can't have the first interview with witnesses anymore. you can have follow up interviews, but you don't know in the context of those initial interviews were conducted. you don't even have a well-established outline or even as how the feds will be involved in the case.
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will they be primary on interviews in interrogations? will they merely be observers? are they just collecting data for future activity? but really it goes back to maintaining integrity of the investigation and what damage could be done, or could have been done in this week's period of time by this sheriff's department and that city government that will later jeopardize whatever combination of the investigation occurs in the future. >> kirk, a quick last word before we go to a break on this. >> yeah, mark is absolutely correct. within seven days a case begins to go cold. that being said, the police department and the sheriff's department, the city government there have lost the trust of the public and i think it is very important that the justice department and the fbi step in and take over the investigation so that they can restore some sort of public confidence that we'll get to the truth because as of this point, there is just simply so much that we don't know and it's amazing that our family has to go out and obtain
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an autopsy and so forth before we can hear any of this information from the local authorities so i think it's a good move that the federal government is stepping in and i think it's quite possible, we'll see a civil rights violation prosecution here. >> kirk burkhalter and mark claxton, thank you both very much for joining us again tonight. always appreciated. >> you're quite welcome. >> thank you. >> coming up, james cline burn look at tonight's last word. that's next.
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biden: when i think about climate change, the word i think of is jobs. vo: and these aren't just the jobs of tomorrow. they're the jobs of right now. good paying jobs to modernize our infrastructure. in manufacturing. construction. engineering. they're in our cities... in our suburbs... and our small towns... we take on climate change... and we build back better with clean energy jobs. biden: so let's waste any more time, let's get to work. so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet.
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powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. >> better suited. bounce forward, with comcast business. better prepared. i can think of no one that the integrity. no one more committed to the fundamental principles to make
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this country what it is. than my good friend, my late wife's great friend. joe biden. [applause] >> joe biden will be the fifth president to address a joint session of congress with congressman james clyburn in the room. but joe biden will be the first president who knows when he looks down from the podium and sees congressman clyburn that he would not be standing there as president of the united states without jim clyburn's crucial support in the south carolina primary which took joe biden from losing presidential candidate to winning presidential candidate. joining us now is house majority jim clyburn of south carolina. thanks very much for joining us,
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tonight the night before joe biden's first address to a joint session of congress as president. i know when you endorsed him, you publicly relied heavily on the advice of your late wife emily and i have to wonder what would emily think of these first hundred days of the biden presidency? >> she would be estatic. you know, joe biden made it very clear upon his election that he was going to be lazerly early focused on covid-19. as you, know my way my late wife battled for almost 30 years with diabetes and she knows what it is to have assistance as well as prayers. and she would be very pleased. joe biden has gotten us into a much better place with this virus and if we continue to follow the science, listen to
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the advice, being offered by his administration and if he continues on the path he is now following, we will be in a very good place when light summer and i think will be reopened for school for our children in a very big way. >> presidents always try to send members of congress out of that room on a wave of enthusiasm for their legislative agenda. what do you hope democrats at least leave that room with the resolve to get done first? >> i'm thinking if we leave the room as we -- entered the room, and that's with confidence in this president, i think we will leave the room on a high note and i think we will go out and explain to the american people
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that we have got to reimagine a lot of things in this country. to include what infrastructure really is. i'm amazed at the number of people who seem to feel that infrastructure is what it always has been. they forget that we do not have the -- until abraham lincoln made a big infrastructure. we did not have the interstate highway until dwight eisenhower made it a big infrastructure out of it and we did not have broadband without it being infrastructure programs. and joe biden has made it very clear that when it comes to infrastructure, it's got to be beyond what is traditionally been. it's gotta be broadband, it's gotta be -- it's gonna be school construction. how do you bring children back
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to the school if we have not done with needs to be done with the hvac systems? if we have not brought the schools up to par which we have not done over so many years? so this infrastructure program is going to be beyond that which we have imagined for decades now. but it will be the kind of infrastructure that's needed. you'll have education done, health care done, business development done. i'll tell you, i think we're going to leave that room on a good foot. >> the census which comes out every ten years is always a big event in congress and can change the future of some members of congress if their district gets eliminated. we now see that the way the count looks right now, the democrats will be disadvantaged to put it mildly and -- to the extent of three congressional seats that might
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automatically go to republicans. three additional because of redistricting. because of the census. what is the new strategy, with this new sentence, census, for your democratic majority leadership, that you are part of, to preserve that majority in the house? >> we are going to connect with the american people, the same way democrats did in georgia earlier this year. in january to be exact. no one ever thought, six months or a year ago, that we would elect two democrats in georgia. one black. one jewish. to replace two republican senators, but they did. i believe, we are going to surprise a lot of people, after redistricting. i know people are looking at the way this is going, but people are going to look at this president, and the production that he is now masterminding, and we are going
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to get out, and explain to the american people, why this 1.5 trillion dollar program, that he is going to propose, the 1.9 trillion dollar program, that we already have in place, that it's good for the country. we are going to come up with the new and better ways to pay for it. you're not going to pay for infrastructure by clipping coupons out of the sunday paper. we have to get investments in this. and we have to imagine new ways of doing it. that's why this president is going to be proposing, that we restructure some of our tax credits. so the very wealthy, will pay more, and the people who helped to create this wealth, will be rewarded with the kind of service, that that money can pay for. >> we saw a new autopsy report today, in north carolina. of a man shot by police
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multiple times, a fatal shot in the back of the head. black man, this comes after the verdicts in the derek chauvin case. what has the continuation of these police incidents, every week now, done to the momentum for passing the police reform bill? >> i hope it has been helpful. i do know that karen bass, is doing all she can to reconcile, democratic differences, with my fellow south carolinians, who's leading it from the other side. tim scott. i do hope, that they get us to a place, where we can pass a bill of legislation. let me tell you something lawrence. that would be the beginning. when i talk about reimagining, we have to reimagine how we implement law enforcement in this country, and one of those things we have to do, is stop talking about training.
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they have some of the best training that can be created, by anyone. our problem is about recruiting. what kind of people we are hiring in this positions. one needs to look at the video, from that police officer up there in virginia, pointing his gun at a lieutenant in the united states armed services. who is pleading with him, and he ignores all of his pleas. and yelling at him like he's some animal. these kinds of people, should not be on the police forces. that is our big problem, not training. it is recruiting. we have to recruit better people. and we have to pay better salaries. you will not get good people for the kind of salaries that we pay these police officers. we have to do better. >> congressman jim clyburn thank you very much for joining us tonight. we always appreciate.
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it >> thank you for having me. >> programming note, tomorrow night i will be joining our special coverage of president biden's first address to congress, msnbc special coverage begins at 8 pm eastern. with president biden expected to begin his speech at 9 pm. that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. e 11th hour with brian williams starts now. well, good evening once again day 98 of this biden administration. a president who, by the way, came into office hoping on our behalf that by july 4th it might feel a whole lot like normal around here. well, today a big step in that direction as the cdc finally relaxed its guidance on masks for fully vaccinated americans. health officials say the drop in cases, the rise in vaccines, both show the risk of infection is declining. today, the president welcomes the relaxed mark commendations and use them to make a pitch


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