tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 23, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
his little daughter gianna, there's an interview with her this weekend that's going to air. >> yes. >> beautiful little girl. god bless them. they won the week. juanita toliver, tiffany cross. don't forget to watch "the cross connection" tomorrow morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern. her guest will be auntie marcia budd who will be here. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in". >> i am not going to be voting for any election integrity bills from this point forward. >> election madness in arizona. the state senate auditing the 2020 results from maricopa county as a republican kills a bill to restrict voting because the bill doesn't restrict voting enough. >> the reason i'm voting "no" on this bill is because i have given my commitment to my constituents that we will fix all election integrity. then, the justice department now expecting to charge 500
people in connection with january 6th, including the man who boasted about storming the capitol on a dating app. plus -- >> with these actions the administration of johnson & johnson's covid-19 vaccine can resume immediately. >> the johnson & johnson vaccine cleared by the fda and cdc as senator ron johnson campaigns on a pro-covid platform. >> the science tells us that vaccines are 95% effective. so if you have a vaccine, quite honestly, what do you care if your neighbor has one or not? >> "all in" starts right now. ♪ ♪ good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. like so many republican-controlled states, the state of arizona, which, of course, narrowly flipped for democrats at the presidential and senate level, has seen a republican push for voter restrictions in that state. yesterday that push to restrict access to the ballot box ran
into an unexpected road block. after republicans introduced a restrictive voting bill like ones we have seen in dozens of other states, one republican state senator defected to stop the bill from moving forward. you might think, oh, wow, a republican breaking with her party over this anti-democratic push to change the rules. but, no, no, no, no, she is mad it is not more restrictive. >> i am committed to fixing the problems in this election system in arizona even if it means my name is in red on this board, and you guys can say it is a temper tantrum. absolutely i'm upset about all of my election bills dead. absolutely i am upset. you want to see a temper tantrum, i can show you one if you really want to see it. >> excuse me. >> but i will not. >> excuse me. >> i can show you a temper tantrum? that's kind of the republican party of the moment in microcosm, isn't it? because the extreme right wing has taken over the republican party of arizona, including the
republican party chair in that state, trump loyalist kelly ward -- remember, mitch mcconnell called her chem trail kelly because she was so nutty? not only are they introducing restrictive voting legislation, they are also undertaking an truly insane audit of the 2020 election vote five months after the election. no, i'm not making up this. they're actually -- look, they're doing it as we speak. that's them. that's them auditing the vote. this is a live shot of an actual audit of the actual physical ballots that were cast, and they are doing this because they think they're going to find some smoking gun that donald trump actually won maricopa county. >> i'm your chairwoman, dr. kelly ward. today we are going to be talking full forensic audit because you want to know, our whole state wants to know, the nation wants to know and the world wants to know, what happened in 2020 in maricopa county and beyond. >> in case you thought this was
going to go away, it is not. i mean first off, we know what happened in the election. joe biden won and nobody knows what their talking about disputes that. election officials and the courts have found no merit to allegations of fraud or error. remember, all of this was litigated in arizona in courthouses. there's no reason to do an audit at all. moving on from that, the head of the company hired to oversee the audit actively promoted donald trump's fight to overturn the election. retweeting, i'm tired of hearing people say there's no fraud, it happened, it is real and people better get wise fast. that's the guy running the audit, the audit that's happening right now in those live shots. his name is doug logan. okay. today an "arizona central" reporter who volunteered to help the audit gain access quoted, i notice the auditors are supposed to only have blue pens, supposed to be only red.
the blue pens the counter have could potentially be used to mark the ballots. i pointed this out to doug logan with cyber ninjas, that's his i'm apparently. doug is running this audit. he told me his understanding of blue ink was fine, the ballots only reed black ink. then he came back and said actually it seems i'm uncorrect but he still seemed unsure. he would work on this. that's what is going on in arizona ride now with the actual battle. okay. that's the same guy, the one she is talking to, with people going around with blue pens on the physical ballots. that's the same guy who tweeted "stop the steal." his audit counters are using pens that could potentially be used to change ballots. what on earth? i mean there are already legitimate questions about the security around those ballots and this whole audit. a local news team in phoenix reported for four days they, quote, gained access to the coliseum, its hallways, staircase, the main floor where equipment would be used by the auditors. the team was able to get close
to the actual ballots and counting equipment. at no time were they asked to lead. at no time did they enter a doorway or entry way with restricted access sign. for four entire days nobody was guarding the ballots and election computers these people have gotten their hands on to run the audit. an ex-arizona lawmaker who was allegedly photographs on the steps of the u.s. capitol during the january 6th riot says he and his wife are now involved in arizona's audit of the 2020 election. here is a picture of the guy shared by the arizona house democrats. he says he is helping with the audit. there he is apparently on the steps. now, democrats are not surprisingly pushing back on this ludicrous undertaking, suing to stop it. a judge did actually temporarily halt the count this afternoon before allowing it to continue after democrats declined to post a $1 million bond demanded by the judge. so right now the audit of the 2020 presidential election results in arizona is somehow
ongoing. a columnist for "the arizona republic" and az central.com, and she joins me now. i have to say i have covered a lot of elections, i have covered recounts, i have covered very tightly contested elections. i have never seen anything like this in my life. like i actually don't even understand how this came to be. how did this come to be? >> it is arizona. what can i say. you can't spell arizona without a-z. from the night of the election the stop the steal chant began, and in our state, even though there has been no evidence of any wrongdoing, all of the audits done, all of the sample hand counts done, all of the lawsuits done, have turned up absolutely no evidence of a problem. but we have a republican party here that is in the grips of the far right wing. these are people that are deeply into donald trump's pocket, and
we have republican elected officials who, simply put, are not willing to speak truth to their own constituents. they're scared to death of them, and so here we are with -- i call them the trump ninjas because the company is cyber ninja and doug logan is their ceo. i call them the trump ninjas. here they are with our ballots. there are no city officials around. there are no state officials are. there are no county officials around. there are just doug logan and whoever his people are with our ballots. he can't tell us who is counting the ballots. he can't reassure us that the people counting the ballots are a mix of republicans and democrats and independents, since we are a state with a third, a third and a third. he can't tell us who is going to be doing the signature certification on the ballots, if they have any training in knowing how to compare signatures. he won't tell us who is going out to knock on doors to ask people, hey, did you really
vote, whether they've been voted, who is going to be asked, what they're going to be asked. we know nothing because, in fact, reporters aren't allowed to come on to the floor of the coliseum there that you are showing and report on what is going on. when asked about why, the reporters were told, well, there's not enough space for them. this is an arena with 15,000 seats and there's not enough space to allow reporters inside with notebooks and cameras and all of the things that they need to do their job, and we saw the result of that today when our reporter, jen fifield was able to go in, and the only way reporters can go this is if they agree to be official observers, which is ridiculous. reporters shouldn't be officially observing anything, they're members of the public. she was allowed in as an official observer and noticed these pens, which everybody knows you can't take a blue pen or a black pen anywhere near
ballots because the machinery will pick up whatever markings you may make on it and invalidate the ballot. the fact that doug logan didn't know that shows you just how ill-prepared they are to do this audit. >> so i'm almost at a loss for words here, but how does -- how does anyone take custody of them? did they sue or were they -- it was unclear to me. they did sue for this or did the arizona republicans in the state senate grant them this access? >> the senate republicans, who control the senate, it is a 30% senate and 16 of them are republicans, subpoenaed these ballots for the first time -- >> gotcha. >> -- in, think, late november or early december and the county said we can't hand them over to you because kelly ward, who is the state republican party chairwoman, is still suing us and we're not going to turn over our voting machines and ballots to you that are potential evidence while we're being sued. so once the lawsuits were mostly
taken care of, senate president karen fann put out another subpoena for these ballots and for the machinery and for everything else and for voter records, and a judge ultimately ordered that the subpoenas are valid. so the county had to turn over this material. now, the maricopa county board of supervisors is a five-member board, run by republicans, who point out that there has been no evidence of a problem. they even went the extra mile and hired experts, real, actual experts, to check out the machinery, which is the dominion voting system machinery to see if there's a problem with the machinery. they came up with nothing. when the time came for them to be part of this audit and when they found out who was involved with the audit, they're like, we want nothing to do with this. we'll give you the ballots. you take them wherever you want them to be. so that's where they are. they've been taken out of the vault where they were under clear security, and now they've
been trucked over along with all of these machines to veterans memorial coliseum, where we don't know what kind of security there are. reporters were wandering around there last night. they're supposed to be -- i mean who knows? if you can look in the picture there you will see a little fence on the side i think to the left, and the ballots are behind there. there's, i think, 50 or 60 pallets of them. there's 2.1 million ballots. they will have access to the envelopes that you have to sign should they want those. they get everything. here is the scary part. it is not the senate doing this audit. they have outsourced the whole thing to these private contractors who have our records, who have our ballots. we don't know what they're doing with it, and they clearly have no idea what they're doing themselves with it because they don't even know that you can't use a red pen -- a blue pen. so who knows what they're going to do? another thing, don't mind my
interrupting. >> no, please. >> the other thing that should sock people is the senate allocated $150,000 for this audit, which every elections expert the republic has talked to says it is a ridiculous thing. you need anywhere from a million to $8 million depending on what you want to do. so "one america" news network and one of their reporters in conjunction with trump lawyer glen wood, is doing fundraising to raise private funds to supplement the cost, the expense of this audit that he is feeding this money directly to the cyber ninja people. we don't know who is giving money for this official state audit. we don't know who is funding it. they won't say whether we will ever know the source of the money. it has become a ridiculous thing. the only people to my knowledge, the only journalistic organization to my knowledge that has access to the floor is "one america news" network.
but this is a totally independent audit, totally. >> laurie roberts, that was -- thank you so much for coming on. i am literally incredulous. i cannot believe the facts as laid out here. thank you for explaining them so clearly. i really appreciate it. >> glad to be here. all right. i want to bring in rick hossen, author. he has a great new op-ed entitled "republicans aren't done messing with elections," which, yes. i want to talk about your op-ed. i have never in my life, in my experience as a political reporter, heard of anything like this. have you? >> no. i mean of course not. this is, you know, i call it
theater, but it is theater of the absurd. this is nothing like the way any kind of election professional would audit a race. now, of course, we know this race was audited, recounted, gone through court challenges. there were no problems. you have republicans in charge in maricopa county. you have republican governor. if there was a problem, it would have been uncovered. i mean this is just adding fuel to the fire, trying to convince people that the election was stolen for a really crass, political purposes, and i think for financial purposes because it is big business to be claiming elections stolen and raise more money off of it. it is terrible and it is terrible for our country. it is funny, but it is actually very sad. >> but here is what is -- okay. here is what i find absolutely chilling about this, and it dovetails with what you argue in "the new york times". basically you say, look, we are all clear about these attempted voter suppression at the
margins, closing polls early and making it harder to register, et cetera. but you're worried that republican state legislatures are making moves to essentially grab power of election administration, which is usually in the hands of county boards or secretaries of state, because they didn't get their way during 2020 when republican and democrat alike stood up to them. so republican legislatures are trying to grab that turf so they can, like, directly manipulate votes. this feels like a trial run of it. i mean you have the state senate turning over the county's ballots to some private group to do whatever they want with. like this feels like a test run. >> yeah, i don't know i would call it a test run because this has no legal effect. i mean what is a test run is what the georgia legislature did. you know, we spent so much time talking about whether people could get water while they're on line to vote. that's an issue and it is upsetting but it is much less important than the part of the same georgia law that says that the secretary of state, the one
who stood up to trump when he called him to try to find those 11,780 votes, that this guy is now taken off the election board. he no longer has power. instead, he can be replaced by someone who is handpicked by the legislature. that person can have control over a board that can take away the power to administer the election in up to four counties which can include heavily democratic fulton county. this is a way of potentially cooking the election books when we get down to actually counting the votes two or four years from now. so this is kind of a time bomb. we don't know how these rules are going to play out. in state after state, republican legislatures are either passing or considering passing rules that are going to put more power in the hands of political actors who are going to be able to count the votes. i mean you -- it doesn't get worse for problems of democracy than worrying that the votes are not going to be fairly counted by election officials. >> one of the things that surfaced in this long process after the election in 2020 was
we got into the kind of, this sort of technical bureaucracy of election administration, vote counting and how the votes are certified and passed from the county level up to the state, and there are these boards for instance. so, you know, the republicans on the wayne county board objected and switched their votes and then went to the state board of michigan, and no one knows anything or cares much usually about the state election board in michigan. it doesn't have any power. it just, you know, says, yeah, these are the votes, boom. but, you know, one of them objected. one republican voted with the democrats to say it was free and fair. that guy, as you noted, as you learned from your op-ed, he has been booted now. it was like the whole thing was a test run to pull the heist in the bank and find out where the alarms are and where the security is and who switches shifts at what time, and now you are going to go back and, you know, engineer around that. >> right. the key point is that there was a lot of noise during the aftermath of the 2020 election about the election being stolen and rigged. but when push came to shove,
almost every republican who had authority from, you know, this guy on this election board to the secretary of state of georgia, they did the right thing. so now it is a change-the-personnel and put in place -- you know, so who replaced the guy in michigan is the executive director of an organization that's funded by the devoses. you know, this is somebody that will be a trumpist loyalist. there are trumpists being put into positions all around the country. and if they're the ones counting the votes, we are in real trouble. that's why we need things like paper ballots so that if it goes to a court and a court is fair, we can actually run a fair recount and not the kind of ridiculous circus like we're seeing happening right now in arizona. >> rick hossen whose op-ed in "the new york times" i recommend you take a second read. thank you so much, rick. >> thank you. coming up, a little tip. vice quarter from your favorite apm host. for anybody getting back out on the dating scene, now, spring is here, getting vaccinated, things are starting to clear up a
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investigation continues. one of those individuals arrested and charged just yesterday is 50-year-old robert chapman of carmel, new york. he was part of the group that broke into the capitol building on january 6th. he recorded videos and took photos of himself like these that he and a friend posted on facebook. he also wrote on his facebook page, quote, i'm -- inside the capitol. sorry. crapitol, all caps. the boasting did not stop there. he was clearly pretty proud of what he did and it continued on the dating app bumble whether he told another user that he was, you know, trying to strike up a spark with, in a series of messages that he did storm the capitol and made it tall way to statuary hall. that unnamed bumble user replied, quote, we are not a match and then reported robert chapman to the authorities, setting off the investigation that resulted in his arrest yesterday. now, even as these arrests continue day by day as speaker of the house nancy pelosi pushes
for a bipartisan commission to investigate the attack, corporate america seems to think that we're all just going to forget what happened that day, right. we're all going to move on. because remember how a bunch of companies stopped giving republicans money who did not vote to certify the election? it was a big thing, it happened. it appears many are now, quote, resuming contributions to republicans who voted to overturn the election results, proving, of course, there likely will be no lasting consequences for supporting an outright insurrection. elizabeth newman is former assistant secretary for prevention and security policy at the department of homeland security. she left that job a year ago because she saw donald trump as a threat to the country. she is now a director of the republican accountability project. elizabeth, it is good to have you on. i was frustrated and angry but not surprised about those corporate donations. what do you think the relationship is now between the kind of k street institutional party and that ugly chapter in which a majority of house
republicans voted to overturn a democratic election? >> yeah, i mean we're kind of in a dark season. there have been a number of stories that have come out. i think we have just passed the 100 day mark since january 6th. we don't have a commission yet to study what -- how we got there and get to a fact-based account so that, you know, for the same of posterity, maybe our children can know the truth even though half of the country seems to be willing to memory hole what happened on january 6th. but we are having a hard time getting a commission stood up. we are having republicans try to pretend it never happened or it was a false flag operation, it was really antifa that stormed the capitol, and now we have the donors pulling out and doing, you know, going back to politics as usual which, of course, is to your point how the republican establishment class with the exception of a very small number like adam kinzinger or liz
cheney, they're hoping that we all forget and move on, too. they're trying to coax the corporations to think, like, hey, this is just what we have to deal with, our base is a little crazy, but you should still give us money so that we can, you know, be a counterbalance to biden. you know, this is a moment where we really need american citizens to stay involved, to have their voice heard, because there is a very loud, radicalized part of the republican party. and if we just -- and i don't mean this in a dismissive way. covid is important, infrastructure is important, but if we just -- if that's all we are talking about and we're not actually addressing some of the root causes that led us to january 6th, we are going to see more. january 6th was a symptom. it was not the cause. we have to address the causes behind january 6th to prevent it from happening again. >> well, and we're seeing this on display in arizona today.
i mean the thing that i found sort of -- you know, i was a little surprised but encouraged when these, all of these corporations made these announcements, right, that they're not going to donate to any member that voted to not certify the election, because it was a reference that it was a difference in kind, not difference in degree. this is as fundamental as it gets, right? you have a democratic election, person wins fair and square, that person takes power in a peaceful transfer of power. if you oppose that, you are kind of off the map. what i think has happened is, look, that's where a lot of the party is. it is a two-party system, and so the map just expands now to include people that did that, and that's now part -- becomes part of our politics. >> yeah, and i think we -- that's why i joined the republican accountability project, right. we have to defeat these people politically, and that means educating american citizens. look, i don't expect and it is not healthy for every person to
be as invested in politics as those of us in washington, d.c. are. but we need to remind them and educate them why what happened on january 6th was so bad. we need to go back to the basics of democracy. some of this is about process, and it can be kind of bland, but maybe some creative types can really help us explain to the american people why the reason our country is so great is because of those foundational principles of democracy. look at the course of history. what we have experienced for 250 years is very rare, very unique. it is unique in the world. it is rare in the world today. we can't take it for granted. we have to fight for it to be able to continue, and it is almost as if -- i mean when you look at a corporation starting to give back to the republican party, i take that as you think business is going to go back to usual and that nobody is paying attention. so that tells me, one, we need to do things like what we are doing tonight, talk about it so
that people say, no, we see you, we see you corporations thinking that what happened on january 6th was no big deal. you are right. this is not a typical political thing. this is not about cancel culture. this is about there is right and there is wrong, and in a democracy you can't tolerate a non-peaceful transfer of power. that is trending towards authoritarianism. it is trending towards fascism. history tells us that we ignore that at our peril. >> yeah, well, i mean it is about cancel culture. they want to cancel democracy because their snowflakes and fifis got hurt and they lost. elizabeth newman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. from defending the integrity of capitol hill writers to spreading doubts about vaccines, could it end up costing republicans the state? costing republicans the state?
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♪ ♪ republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin might be best known these days as a ceaseless font of crazy quotes. the latest being this thing he said yesterday about covid vaccines. >> i think we probably should have limited the distribution to the vulnerable, to people that really aren't, you know, to the very young, i see no reason to be pushing vaccines on people, and the science tells us that vaccines are 95% effective. so if you have a vaccine, quite honestly, what do you care if your neighbor has one or not? why is this big push to make sure everybody gets a vaccine, and it is to the point where you better impose it, you're going to shame people or you're going to force them to carry a card to prove that they've been vaccinated so they can participate in society. i'm getting highly suspicious of what is happening here. >> why this big push to vaccinate everyone? why would we want to do that? well, because if the vaccine is 95% effective, the number of people that are still going to get sick is going to be
dependent on how much community transmission there is generally. this is not rocket science, senator. so why do you care if someone is vaccinated or not? well, let's just look at kentucky. this week where an unvaccinated worker set off an outbreak at a u.s. nursing home where most residents were immunized. dozens of infections including 22 residents and employees were all vaccinated. three residents died, one vaccinated and two unvaccinated. yeah, everyone getting vaccinated suppresses the disease. johnson has tried to clean up what he said, basically calling his remarks a legitimate question. which, fine, whatever. but his irresponsible vaccine talk comes on the heels of him parroting the popular white supremacy theory that democrats are importing immigrants to replace certain american voters. >> this administration wants complete open borders, and you have to ask yourself why. is it really they want to remake the demographics of america to ensure their -- that they stay in power forever? is that what is happening here?
>> just asking questions. you know people that just like to ask questions. then there was the time last month ron johnson said he was not worried about the capitol rioters, of course, that injured dozens of police officers because they were, quote, people that love this country unlike black lives matter protesters. >> i knew those are people that loved this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break a law, and so i wasn't concerned. now, had the tables been turned, jo, this will get me in trouble. had the tables been turned and president trump won the election and those were tens of thousands of black lives matter and antifa protesters, i might have been a little concerned. >> truly love law enforcement, the crowd that threatened to murder a cop with his own gun. perhaps what is really crazy about senator johnson is that he is saying all of this, this whole performance of his, is not coming from some guy from a super conservative hard right state where he has to worry with a primary challenge or he never
has to worry about a general election challenge. no, he is saying it, a senator from wisconsin, a razor thin state as we saw from the last election. as of 2021 he is the only republican senator left in the state. senator ron johnson has nod decided if he will run for reelection, but if he does he will have to answer to the voters in a closely divided wisconsin where he thinks out-trumping trump is key to his political future. someone with a keen eye on him is ben wickler, chairman of the democratic party of wisconsin. he joins me now. i have to say when you think about senatorial pairings in the country, you are hard pressed to come up with one more stark than tammy baldwin and ron johnson in your state which is a very closely divided state. how does johnson -- how does this schtick work for him? >> so, i mean, let's start with -- and it is good to see you, chris. let's start with acknowledging
ronald h. johnson is bad for wisconsin. he's a disastrous senator. he is ill-serving our republic, ill-serving the country. he shouldn't be in public office. at the same time no one should underestimate the strategy he is using here. wisconsin is maybe the most closely divided state in the nation. we've had four presidential elections out of the last six come down to less than 1%age point, but there was a period where we zigzagged between obama landslides and scott walker landslides. ron johnson came in in 2010 when the scott walker wave and the tea party wave and he was reelected in 2016, one of our, you know, 1% election years. but he rode kind of the trump wave into office. he energized a group of voters that loved what trump was say in, they loved what ron johnson was saying, and he got in. ron johnson's strategy is pretty clearly to build and try to foment a biden backlash and to audition for the kind of new poster child for the mercers and
the right-wing billionaires who fund republican elections. that's his meal ticket. that means he has no accountability to the truth, no accountability to the public. it is not a political problem for him in his view if people die because of what he says. if he foments and feeds into hate, and that makes it all the more urgent we defeat him. but i don't think anyone should underestimate. this will be a big fight. the public does not like what he is saying but he is not trying to appeal to the general public. it is a test of democracy whether we can throw him out of office. >> right, and it also points to the fact that, like, the senate classes matter so much, right? if you are in that 2010 class, you know, you -- a lot of states swung hard to the right, and then in the upper midwest in 2016, right, that trump vote came out and that helped those folks. so he's banking on a sort of, you know, a 2022 kind of tea party redox. that's the democratic -- that's the republican strategy here, right? it will be a mobilization election. it will be a base election like
2010 was. it is going to be turnout in opposition to the party in power. what do you do to counter that if that sort of structurally is baked in? >> so this is what republicans want. they want an atmosphere where people are angry and they're trying to, you know, get back by electing people like ron johnson. on our side, democrats are actually delivering for people. so let's take governor tony evertz. he is up for reelection. he has been an actual real leader who is trying to make people's lives better. week after week you look at the states that are actually getting the highest percentage of covid vaccines into people's arms. wisconsin is in the top three. so what we're going to be doing as a party, what our grassroots activists will be doing across the state will be talking to people. once we reach a level of safety we will be at people's doors, talking on the phone talking about are you getting vaccine shots, stimulus in the bank account? vote for democrats.
we are actually making a difference in your life. there's precedence for those things and a strong economy and a sense that things are getting better. the biggest predictor of down ticket success is the popularity of the sitting president. right now we have a very popular president. we have a very popular governor, and our answer is not to meet his cynicism with more cynicism. it is to make sure people know that he threw himself at doing everything he could to delay the american rescue plan, that he's feeding conspiracy theories that make it harder for schools to reopen, and that democrats are actually doing the things that people want them to do and it is working. >> yeah, it is a very succinct articulation of what i think has become a kind of view of democrats and democratic strategists i have been talking to. like the midterms are a referendum on the sitting president and the path to popularity for the sitting president is do as good a job governing as possible, do good things, get people back at work, vaccinate the country, and that's basically your best shot and let the chips fall where
they may. ben wickler working hard in wisconsin. thanks for taking a little time away for us tonight. >> thanks so much, chris. all right. tonight big news. the fda clears use of the johnson & johnson vaccine after that nearly two-week pause. we will talk about what this means as the need to vaccinate the world grows more urgent with each passing day, next. calling anyone with grit change this, change that, but don't ever quit yesterday's thinking is done from a challenge we never run so keep pushing forward toward a better world for everyone. the future isn't decided yet. it's up to us to make it happen. make a different future start different at godaddy.com (mom vo) we fit a lot of life into our subaru forester. (dad) it's good to be back. (mom) it sure is. (mom vo) over the years, we trusted it to carry and protect the things that were most important to us.
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fda cleared the one-shot vaccine just over an hour ago. a decision praised by dr. fauci. >> the fact that the cdc and the fda originally paused this should underscore to everyone that we take safety very, very seriously. so when a vaccine is let out again to be able to be vaccinating people in this country, you can rest assured that that is a safe and efficacious vaccine. >> early last week federal health officials called for a halt in the use of vaccine after six women between the age of 18 and 48 developed a rare blood clotting disorder. at the time more than 7 million cases had been administered. since then, three people dietd, four people sent to intensive care. those cases are not nothing. there's a reason i think they paused it. today a cdc panel that went through this thoroughly said the vaccine's benefit outweighed the
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until recently a huge part of the developing world had appeared so far to escape the worst of covid-19, somewhat miraculously. right now, india, home to more than a billion people, is careening towards what appears to be possibly the worst outbreak anywhere, ever. and it's horrifying. look at the graph of new cases in that country, it practically looks vertical. look at that blue line, as they keep surging new cases, over
300,000 a day. that's never happened in any other country. 300,000 new cases of coronavirus a day there. the crematoriums are running all day long. metal parts in some furnaces have literally become melting because they're in constant use. some are even burning bodies in parking lots. the situation is so dire, reuters reported one new delhi resident, quote, was forced to keep his dead mother's body at home for two days as he searched for space in crematoria. india hopes the u.s. will ease a ban on exporting materials for a vaccine. the united states has not yet done that. the biden administration has not. why not? what can american citizens do to force our government to act now to help into an and other countries? rachel cohen is the executive director for the drugs for neglected diseases initiative in the united states, an organization created by doctors
without borders that works on medical and vaccine access and sche joins me now. rachel, there's a few ways there's these inequities between the richest countries and poorer countries in terms of battling covid right now. one is this export block on raw materials, something that india has explicitly asked us to lift. can you explain what that is and what can be done about that? >> yeah, my understanding is there have been complaints that the u.s. is not really sufficiently using the defense production act to fill orders for raw materials. they're using kind of an american use first approach. and by doing that, the u.s. government is holding up the entire supply chain for the whole world. and india, as many people know, is considered the pharmacy for the developing world. it actually produces a massive number of drugs and vaccines, including for the u.s. so it's just compounding an
already horrific situation. but one of the most important issues, and you alluded to it, is this issue of what can be done to lift some of the patents and other intellectual property protections in a way that might facilitate access to those vaccines in india and of course in the rest of the world. >> so talk me through that. i know there are beginning discussions in a run-up to the wto meeting on this, there would be a world trade organization pact that would produce a waiver so other countries can freely manufacture and distribute, is that right? how does that come about and what would that do? >> yeah, that's right. so last year south africa and india requested that their countries be able to use certain
intellectual property patents until a certain percentage of the population receives a vaccine and they reach herd immunity. they want to begin or in some cases ramp up the production of vaccines, something that can begin happening within six months or so, according to experts. and frankly, something that should have been put in place a year ago when we could see this from a mile away. it was clear then that while science was moving at an unprecedented pace to deliver vaccines in record time, rich countries would import the doses, impose export bans and engage in what some call vaccine nationalism. the previous administration opposed this proposal to temporarily waive patents on intellectual and other property. there is now a coalition of more than a hundred countries basically asks the biden administration to reverse course, support the waiver. this has massive support
globally, more than 100 nobel laureates and many former world leaders have supported the waiver. and here in the u.s., speaker pelosi supports this, apparently about 100 members of congress, ten senators, large trying to say roots organizations, unions and so forth. and by the way, it's been reported in some polls, 60% of the american public. >> we should note, obviously the sort of basic market rationale for these patent grants which are exclusive monopolies granted by the government, is that they are incentivized very expensive research and research is genuinely expensive and difficult, and so you want to be able to create marketing incentive. the companies that develop these patents are going to make a lot of money off them even if the waiver happens, right? we're buying up -- we have contracts with them, the developed world, right? they're going to -- pfizer,
moderna, they're going to do pretty well even if india were to manufacture a generic version. >> yes, absolutely. and that isn't really even at issue here. i work for an organization that develops drugs for extremely neglected diseases that fall completely outside of the marketplace. we know that intellectual property has hardly been an incentive for those companies to develop drugs for these kinds of diseases. the problem here is that the unprecedented pace of scientific progress in this pandemic, we're today in a situation where a tiny fraction of people in low and middle income countries have access. some people are suggesting we may not even approach herd immunity in these parts of the world until 2024. 0.3% of the 900 million doses that have been given globally have been given in africa. and this is really despite being in the midst of a clearly unparalleled global pandemic that's claimed more than 3 million lives.
we're taking a business as usual approach to the question of equitable access, whether and how to share the benefits of scientific progress. we cannot afford to continue on this path. >> rachel cohen, thank you so much for that. we'll stay on this issue. if you care about this, it might be worth to go your member of congress. call the white house switchboard and let them know. that's "all in" for this week. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, have a great weekend, my friend, thank you. thanks to you at home for joining us at this hour. one year ago today, i cannot forget it, imagine your job is corporate pr, you work for a big corporation that makes consumer products and your job is running social media for that kind of a company. it may be not anybody's idea of a dream job, i think. but still, it's a job. and i major that that kind of work is at least fairly