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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  April 21, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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hi there, everyone. 4:00 in the east. the wave of relief. it was palpable across the country in the wake of derek chauvin's conviction for the murder of george floyd. it's now giving way today to calls for action as the biden administration takes steps the make good on its promise of systemic change. the justice department today announcing a broad investigation of the minneapolis police. it's a move designed to address deep-rooted issues that may have contributed to floyd's murder and to determine whether a pattern of unlawful policing demands urgent reforms. >> i have been involved in the legal system in one way or another for most of my adult
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life. i know that justice is sometimes slow, sometimes elusive and sometimes never comes. the department of justice will be unwavering in its pursuit of equal justice under law. the challenges we face are deeply woven into our history. they did not arise today or last year. building trust between community and law enforcement will take time and effort by all of us. but we undertake this task with determination and urgency knowing that change cannot wait. >> that announcement followed an impassioned call to action and remarks from president biden last night. >> the guilty verdict does not bring back george.
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but through the family's pain they're finding purpose so that george's legacy will not just be about his death but about what we must do in his memory. so we can't leave this moment or look away thinking our work is done. we have to look at it, we have to look as we did for those 9:29. we have to listen. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. those are george floyd's last words. we can't let those words die with him. we have to keep hearing those words. >> president biden also personally made a phone call to the family of george floyd last night after the verdict was handed rngs described as extraordinary this morning by politico writing this. the call lasted less than four
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minutes but a moment unique in u.s. history. a president openly engaging in an act of collective relief in the outcome of the criminal justice system. but in his less than 100 days in aufs grief amid a global pandemic, a resurgence of mass shootings and now outcry over justice as accountability for floyd's murder collided with the killing of daunte wright as a traffic stop and the focus now to the question of what happens next in the fight against racism in policing nationwide. on that "the new york times" writes this. for many black americans real change feels elusive, particularly given how relentlessly the killing of black men by police continued including the shooting death of daunte wright and also signs of backlash around the country. legislation to reduce voting access, protect the police and criminalize public protests
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sprung up in republican controlled state legislatures. just this afternoon in an op-ed in "the washington post" philonise gives the solace as a challenge to the entire country to confront the barriers against progress. he writes this. this is what justice feels like. gut wrenching relief, exhaustion. it's not sweet or satisfying. it's necessary, important, maybe even historic. but only with the passage of time will we know if the guilty verdict is the start of something to change america and the experience of black americans. and that is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. professor eric michael dyson is back. author of "long time coming." also joining us civil rights attorney and former prosecutor david henderson. jonathan la mere is back and
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robert gibbs is here, former white house press secretary in the obama presidency. professor, first, your reaction to just the last -- almost exactly 23 hours. >> well, thank you for having me. it is exhausting, extraordinarily exhilarating on the one hand to see a rare act of accountability on the part of the police as attorney general of minnesota keith ellison stated this is not just justice but this is a start on the road to justice and the accountability is critical but in the same hour that that jury decision was revealed we know that bryant died in columbus, ohio. so what we know is that these are deeply systemic issues that don't provide us the opportunity to breathe now that george floyd's killer has been held to account because so many other black people will face similar fates.
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the police will not exercise discretion, will not use reduced sense of engagement to preserve brag life. we see videos of white wielding machetes. police pointing the revolver to get out and refuses and takes off and they don't shoot him. what we're asking for is a consideration of justice that preserves our lives that gives us a sense that we are full citizens of the american policy and that uses the bully pulpit of the united states presidency and political office to make sure that we deliver that message ringingly to the citizens of this nation. >> can i ask for your thoughts on what the president has said and what the attorney general has committed to? do you feel like he is listening to the right voices in terms of making the right policy changes?
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>> i think absolutely right. first of all, the woman he's nominated to be the head of the civil rights division and the department of justice is a remarkable lawyer and jurist, a woman motivated by the highest principles so that would be an extraordinary coup for us to have her serving the american public. but yes. his sweet soul character, his emphathetic nature, the willingness to listen, no other president in that four-minute call as i think "the new york times" reported could so commiserate with people, so show relief. a lot of what the presidency is about is not about arcane rules or rituals or public policies. it is about the gut bucket gritty identification with the vulnerable. it is lbj showing up at a time of crisis. george w. bush doing the same thing. so it's extremely important and
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i think yes listening to the right people, speaking to the right people and got to do the right thing now. >> i'm going to quit while i'm ahead with you on this round. i got a compliment for george w. bush from you. david henderson, i want to get your -- you were unsparing when the prosecution you thought was making missteps and complimentary when you liked what they were doing so i want your review on how it ended and the result but first i want to play you sound from philonise floyd on andrea mitchell's program earlier today. >> i'm just still on cloud nine because people of color we never get justice for anything and it is more that accountedability that these officers have to be held on a higher standard. it is just right now i'm excited. my family is excited. the world is excited because we
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feel like this is the land of the free. this is why people fight to get here. and justice for george meant freedom for all. >> so i am riveted by philonise, his brother rodney on with us yesterday. the family musters so much optimism in the face of the most cruel, cruel circumstances and the most unwelcomed i think opportunity to sort of be on the public stage. i can't imagine anyone who would have chosen this but the words are powerful there and to say i'm excited, my family is excited, the world is excited because we feel like this is the land of the free. this is why people fight to get here and justice for george made freedom for all why what do you think of that? >> every time i hear him speak i find myself thinking we need to recruit him to be a civil rights lawyer because he expresses the feelings so well. when we spoke about this trial
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toward the beginning i said it needs to do two things, provide justice for the floyd familiar and give them the close yir to move on from this chapter in the life and also needs to promote hope and healing. not just for the community in minneapolis but also for our country who's dealing with some really heavy issues relating to police reform. the trial has done those things as much as it can do those things and i say that because we can't make the mistake of overinterpreting the importance in the battle for police reform. that may be the analogy why this is a battle but we have a war that's going to be waged with regard to police reform and we have to differentiate between effective trial strategy and truth zwr presenting the minneapolis police department as positively as we did during this trial was effective trial strategy. if you have a blue lives matter juror you don't want to alienate them with the presentation of the case but there are 27
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million reasons why though derek chauvin is guilty the minneapolis police department is not innocent. he was part of systemic problems within that department and police departments don't pay millions of dollars to families to be nice to them. they did it because what was alleged in that lawsuit was true and george floyd's death was part of systemic problems that ultimately led to the consequences and also what we're seeing in surrounding areas so if we keep that in mind we can use this as a positive step forward in a much larger discussion to be had with policing in this country. >> oh wow. that is all so profound and smart. that police department is not innocent. but that wasn't a point to be made in trial because the jurors, it was important testimony. i wonder if you can say more about the moves that the justice department to open an investigation into the police department itself. >> the difficulty with the trial
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was the minneapolis police department acted as though it had nothing to do with derek chauvin's actions and that's not true because you have to remember derek chauvin was out there with three other officers and to the extent to paint him as a lone wolf, they don't roam in packs. right? and so i think what's going to happen with this investigation by the justice department is it's going to put to the test whether or not the minneapolis police department through its testimony was pushing the bounds of its involvement with george floyd's death to be completely frank. it had an involvement there and i think what's necessary is for us to have the types of investigations because in the end we always hear about this bad apple defense which simply isn't true. police problems are systemic problems, not individualistic problems and that's what i think the attorney general is getting at with this investigation. >> jonathan, no surprise, what the attorney general had to do first was rescind a sessions
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memo. let's read you reporting from pete williams. the attorney general jeff sessions had changed the rules for launching pattern or practice investigations like announced today. last friday april 16th attorney general garland rescinded the sessions memo restoring the policy to the way it worked before. you know, we talk so much about the damage done to the rule of law under donald trump but there were some things that were i think opaque and will remain opaque until they're reversed by this current administration. can you speak to how sort of frantic and furious that endeavor is? >> yes. certainly first of all president trump and the department of justice under him reflexive sided with police. the president touted the police union endorsements all the time and even with other incidents where they were called into
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question whether a police officer, white police officer had done the right thing shooting a black individual the president almost always, former president, almost always sided with the police and we heard from joe biden as a candidate particularly in the wake of george floyd's death he wanted to change and that felt like there's a systemic racism and how police departments treat men and women and needs to be reformed from the ground up and seen an effort now from the attorney general to do that. they have been working behind the scenes and expecting more executive orders, more actions at the justice department in the days ahead. there's talk in the white house aides, we have reported today of a speech the president may give on policing in the weeks ahead. sometime after the 100-day mark and address to congress but though we should expect on that speech there should be at least some sort of mention of this. we know that aides were drafting two different versions of the
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100-day speech. this is going to be a big piece of what they want to do now. it's a question of when and how because there's a lot on the plate and congress' plate and that is where most of the reform will have to have come and through legislation and then white house sees that as an uphill climb. >> it is an uphill climb rng robert gibbs, because of the filibuster. a lot of what is on the president's agenda i think gets a lift from bipartisan support among the country and no help really, absolutely no cooperation from republicans and it leaves everything in the hands of joe manchin. if you could pick up where jonathan left off and let me add to what they have on the plate. because i'm sure you can relate from the days in the white house. gop lawmakers in 34 states have introduced 81 anti-protest bills during the 2021 legislative
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session why it is only april, guys. more than twice as many proposals as in any other year. that's according to eli page, a senior legal analyst. tracking legislation limiting the right to protest. we cover russia because we think that what's happening there to a dissident navalny is so abhorrent. watching him die before our eyes. but there are anti-protest laws which are on the spectrum of sort of cramping -- clamping down on the rights to speech and the right pretends to be up in arms about. >> yeah. look. i think that the white house obviously has a lot on its plate and in reality probably half a dozen things on the plate we are not even knowledgeable about or discussing at the moment. >> at least. >> the president has -- exactly. the president has that bully
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pulpit. the president will speak to the nation and congress next week and we'll get an understanding of what the white house believes its priorities are. i think there's been buzz in washington post this verdict to see some breakthrough on police reform and i would be hopeful that that would be the case. i think yesterday some said the verdict meant we didn't need police reform but i think it's important to understand we just had a trial where a defendant went in and made the case that what you saw, what everybody saw on the videotape was actually a reasonable use of force. now, a jury rejected it and rejected it quickly but for a -- for that mindset to persist inside of the policing community that gives you a sense of what ultimately has to change so i think you will see that the president put a lot of weight on this in the coming weeks. he understands that this has to be as the floyd family has so
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eloquently stated, a moment of inflection, a moment where we look back to say this was the beginning of structural and substantial change and not a moment in history but instead the beginning of some larger reckoning. >> i want to just play one last piece of sound because i'm struck listening to merrick garland how important elections are and this transfer of power in jeopardy until the end really was. this is part of president biden's call with the floyd family. >> nothing is going to make it all better but at least now there's some justice. >> right. >> and you know, i think a time is coming. we'll change the world and got to start to change it now. >> yes. >> amen. >> change it now.
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>> professor, everything's going to change now. are you optimistic? >> you know, the great theologian said there's a big difference between optimism and hope. optimism is a shallow virtue. which way is the wind blowing? try to predict where it's coming from. hope is something deeper so i'm hopeful. hope exists against hope, where there's no reason at all to believe that something different might occur. and yet, in this instance i think our hope rests upon the fact if we can galvanize around this particular event not to see it as a ceiling but a floor, not to see it as the end of the road but the beginning, then we can move toward a world in which we cooperate with one another. where public safety is not handled by people so quick to pull a trigger or a taser or a ban tot name of the state
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wielding the authority of the united states of america's government against the bodies of black and brown and other vulnerable people but using the authorities as a basis for creating peace and i think a resolution of our conflicts. so i'm hopeful that we can use this moment to create the society we need. it is not going to happen automatically. it won't happen inevitably but if we have the possibility of using this moment as inspiration and instigation in the best sense of that word then i think we're on the right path. >> everyone is staying with us. we have more for all four of you. when we come back, more on this moment and what could have been if not for that piece of videotape that turned the george floyd delt into an international movement. especially in this country. turn if you want to get under the former guy's skin, take a poll of independent
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thinking republicans and show that they're not that into him anymore. try to make the case that the party doesn't have to be trump's all. plus, the shots in arms slowing down. the white house needs to get creative in persuading more americans to get vaccinated. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues. don't go anywhere. a former army medic, made of the flexibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said... i got this. usaa insurance is made the way kate needs it - easy. she can even pick her payment plan so it's easy on her budget and her life. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa. when you buy this plant at walmart, they can buy more plants from metrolina greenhouses so abe and art can grow more plants.
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when i look at george floyd, i look at my dad. i look at my brothers. i look at my cousins. my uncles. because they are all black.
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i have black father and brother and black friends. and i look at and i look at how that could have been one of them. it's been nights i stayed up apologizing and apologizing to george floyd for not doing more. >> powerful testimony from the 18-year-old whose video was the key piece of evidence in the case against derek chauvin, one of them. while phraser spoke of the tremendous guilt she feels today of not doing more to help george floyd in the final moments it's hard to overstate the impact of the video she filmed and uploaded to facebook not just because it spurred nationwide protests but because it was the heart of the prosecution's case to convict derek chauvin. a prosecutor telling the jury quote you can believe your eyes,
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ladies and gentlemen. without her video the first statement from the minneapolis police department would have likely become the definitive account of floyd's death. might have been all we knew. the police press release shocking to read given what we know now titled man dies after medical incident during police interaction and reads in part who officers arrived and located the suspect, a male believed to be in the 40s in the car. he was ordered to step from the car. he physically resisted officers. officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress and called for an ambulance. he was transported to hennepin county medical center by ambulance where he died a short time later. we're back with professor dyson, david henderson, jonathan la mere and robert gibbs. david, speak to the trial and
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the movement, how important was that piece of tape? >> that piece of tape cannot be overstated in terms of the importance to the trial and the movement. technology has given every day people powerful advantages but that advancement is only as powerful as the person who's wielding it. takes guts and charngter to film something like that with a police officer giving you a hostile look and so you have to give her full credit. the reason why it's so important in the grander scheme of police reform because we represent protesters who are wrongfully protesting and we have police reports for one of the clients accused of disobeying commands from an officer and throwing rocks. a local news station recorded the arrest and she is not doing those things but without the video all you have is the police report and if the police report and what the aufrss claim versus the bystanders and we have a
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system where we always take the officer's word. part of what needs to come out into the investigation the attorney general is doing is the consequences of officers who misrepresent what happened out there and the testimony is used to convict people in courts every day. >> i want to read some of what she said about how she mustered the strength and courage to keep filming. quote it was like natural instinct to start recording. the world needed to see what i was seeing. stuff like this happens in silence too many times. robert gibbs, i was -- a lot of that testimony, the bystander testimony, was really some of the most achingly human sort of pain that was presented to the jury that the guilt that all the bystanders still struggle with for not doing enough to save him, there was no remorse on the
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chauvin side or if there was the defense attorney wasn't able to present it. that seemed to be a thread that pulled the whole three weeks of testimony. what did you think? >> i think there's no doubt that the emotion combined with the video, the agonizing nature of that testimony and others were really imperative in how this case went down. and i'm struck. it's not just the video of what happened here in minneapolis. we are grappling with what happened in chicago around this. we had a state prosecutor go into a courtroom ten or so days ago and testify a 13-year-old boy shot dead by chicago police was holding a gun when that happened. the camera footage from the police officer was released and showed that that 13-year-old boy had thrown the gun down and had the arms in the air.
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that's a state prosecutor who i presume had access to the footage that was about to be released publicly but it goes to the previous point. it is really important that we had this video documentation that we can check against the story of what we hear and understand what really happened in so many of these events. >> i want to show you guys a interview that my colleague shaq brewster did outside the courthouse, sort of spon tan you what turned into a celebration after the verdict. >> so -- for myself personally, this is a wake-up call. for the privilege i have had and i haven't even realized it and the difficulty for all black and brown people. so i'm thrilled that justice was
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served. >> reporter: what will you do with that realization? where do you take that? >> i want to find out. i don't know. i actually googled it today. >> reporter: what did you google? >> what can a white person do to help black lives matter? >> professor, you want to try to answer that for him? what can a white person do to help black lives matter? >> yes. let me first of all say i meant george h.w. bush in regard to going to los angeles after the rodney king verdict. there are many things that white brothers and sisters can do? they can operate within their own sphere, within their own comfort zones. when you go home for thanksgiving and you know that there are some nasty viewpoints being expressed and you know that there are some expressions made against black people, you got to hold your family to account. not nastily.
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eat first and get the pie and don't be silly but after you consume the beverages and you have frivolity, speak to them. directly. also at your own place of business. what are you doing to make sure that different voices are heard, different bodies are there, different perspectives on had? in the institutions of higher education, are people studying this as a measure of studying what happens in america. as american history. so many people speak about race as if an encounter with a black person at mcdonald's substitutes for a serious engagement. so the point is that if you can get the grits together enough to have curiosity about the world to google it, yes, important but also have interactions with other people of color, with black and brown and asian brothers and sisters. talk to indigenous people.
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not just one. you have to have a circle of people who can help you form opinions, direct your own study, satisfy curiosity and start you on the road toward growth, toward engagement and toward learning and then read books, articles. interact with those who know what they're talking about. go to lectures, the library. these are some of the things that i think you can do to make a difference as a white person concerned about our culture and committed to racial justice. >> thank you all so much. jonathan is sticking around. can the republican party distance itself from a cult of permit? could it be true that the gop really can quit him? we'll ask next. [doorbell rings] thanks, baby.
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new polling this week by former trump national security adviser john bolton shows exactly what he set out to prove that enthusiasm is waning for the former guy. people are not that into him anymore. fear of him among the gop is totally unfounded. from that poll, independents repelled by one thing, donald trump's personality, hold a 37% positive view of trump and 55%
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negative view of him. president biden with a net positive approval of 48% and 46% have an unfavorable account. that means trump upside down 20 points. among independents. which means one thing. loyalty and sub serve yens to trump is not the permission structure, not the excuse structure frankly it used to be and makes biden's approval ratings more ominous for republicans. joining us is tim miller. jonathan is still here. tim, i got on this call and i had a million questions. but what i wanted to know was, what is lumped into personality? right. is it the big lie? inciting a insurrection? it is all about it. independents do not like trump anymore and may have taken a few
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years but i think the harder question for republicans to answer is then this is who you are, right? i think that's probably the conclusion you've reached. >> that is the conclusion i've reached and as in s my want i have to be a rain cloud. i appreciate what former national security adviser bolton is doing trying to nudge the party away from trump and with him in that mission but these numbers aren't as good as you made us believe. i have the press release, too. 56% of voters in 2024 don't want to vote for trump. i was like, another way of putting that is 44% do. so that's pretty alarming. >> fair enough. >> if you look at the republicans the 2024 head to head is 50 trump, 50 everybody else and undecided. that's a good position for somebody running in 2024 and a long way off and the important
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takeaway is that yes independents are repelled by him and yes attracted to joe biden's agenda. joe biden should keep on getting on and the republican party needs to decide will we try to attract the independents or continue in this protracted battle appealing to the 50%, the half of the base that is really in a trump cult and right now they're all deciding with the exception of liz cheney yes to appeal to that trump cult. >> this is one of these annoying conversations of two campaign nerds. i think that the number among independents with a shrinking party registration among republicans is perilous in national elections. you can run someone who's minus 20 among independents if you've got 20, 29 to 25 is the drop in republican registration just last year, pre-insurrection and pre what happened last night.
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do you think that the calculation will be let's try to harden -- the calculation now seems to be let's harden the 25%. you can't win anything nationally with 25%. >> yeah. look. i think that this is why i support what they're trying to do here and look at the underlying data. to win national elections they're going to need to appeal to the independents, appeal to the people that left the party, to the minority of the republican base voters that wants to move on. right? that's how you win national elections why the problem is that they have to deal with primary electorates, a lot of them are in red state where is the numbers are different and totally not interested in appealing to the suburbs because of the political incentives that they face. sorry, that's my door. look. i think that we, you know -- they're making a rational choice for the narrow political
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interests. they're stuck between the rock and the hard place and why bolton is trying to encourage them to move off it by showing the independent numbers and i think that's the main thing here. >> jonathan, i guess the larger point is to get beyond why do they do it. right? why is hawley's fist up? we have always thought that they were slavish to trump because of his power so i think the power may not be a sort of optimistic view of where the party is heading. to the contrary and may be a sort of omen for the sure end and demise of whatever remains because they see the world the way donald trump is d and didn't run from the cameras. they ran from you because they want to agree on tv. >> yeah. that's certainly right. a couple points here. i think that two things can be
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true as once. trump's influence over the party writ large faded. you know? it is striking how sort of removed from the news cycle he is. the email statements have come out and don't go anywhere and often ignored and same with the call-in interviews and had larger ceded stage and in the strongest position of any other republican and remains to be seen whether or not he actually would plunge into another race and people close to him that i have talked to him highly doubt that. okay. where does the republican party go from here? do they indeed stay with him and to the majority of them the answer is yes. even if not trump the candidate but trump-ism and where the voters are and it is. it is sort of a dark and cynical view and a shrinking population. the republican registrations are way down and independents broken away from the party at least for
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now and seem into joe biden's agenda. certainly the white house doesn't miss a beat or a chance to tell you that even if they don't get support of republican lawmakers in washington for the agenda republican voters were behind the covid relief bill and seem to be behind the infrastructure and jobs package and does another republican try to go a different way? there's talk of chris christie floating maybe another run and feels like to appeal to the sort of the personality perhaps of the trump voters but with sincible positions at least on some issues. would that be a more viable path? >> i say this with affection for everybody in the following sentence but the notion that chris christie to run on the personality to beat donald trump is not something i had on the bingo card. next, how to incentivize more people to come out and get jabs.
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broad swath of american adults still remain largely unvaccinated. >> president biden today on the vaccine progress here in the u.s., about to surpass 200 million covid shots administered since taking office. and also the reality of our challenging road ahead to herd immunity in the face of infection rates rising in 34 states. 700 americans are dying from covid every single day. and another alarming sign today that vaccine supply is starting to outweigh demand. an official said that the u.s. is shipping out more doses than are being used with all u.s. adults eligible to make an appointment, still more than 48% have not even received a single dose. let's bring into the conversation as we do on days like this, msnbc medical contributor dr. patel. jonathan is still here. i want to start, dr. patel, with the ap's reporting on this and
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ask you to put your policy hat on. this is from one of jonathan's colleagues saying paid for through the $1.9 trillion virus relief package passed last month, the tax per day per employees for businesses with fewer than 500 workers to ensure the workers or businesses don't suffer a penalty by getting vaccinated. the white house is urging larger employers, which have more resources to provide the same benefits to their workers. just 43% of working adults have received at least one shot. i'm still working remotely. vaccination seems like the most important hurdle to getting all of us back into our workplaces. what do you make of that policy proposal? >> yeah, i think, nicolle, it's brilliant. we're getting now to the point, as you've said, people who wanted the vaccine have had it, but we see a large proportion of
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people who might even want it, they want the vaccine, they don't necessarily have the time, if we don't have it available right away. furthermore, nicolle, the conversations about side effects are pretty -- they're kind of weighing on people. i even told people at your second shot, you might need to take the next 24 to 36 hours off. most people don't have that luxury. assuring you don't have to use your vacation time and having paid time off outside of that is critical, and it's in the best interests of the employee workplace. investments like that pay off in dividends in the long run. >> you know, that's so important. we haven't had that conversation here, but i had my second shot, wasn't able to work the next day. i did remote school with my son in my pajamas, but shouldn't that be part of the conversation? i don't want to cast aspersion on the fact it hasn't been to date, but i think we've been shy
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talking about how crumby you might feel after your second shot. how do you stake that honest conversation and turn it into an asset and push it into a policy change? >> yeah, i think you have to first be honest about it. i know people are shying away from making this vaccine seem in any way negative, but i think by hiding or not being transparent about the possibilities, you do make it more negative. from a policy standpoint, we have to look at the workforce that is here. we know we lost millions of jobs in the workforce, many of them low and medium wages. what is left? it's not just upper-income jobs. we have many working american men and women who want to do the right thing and physically can't, and i hate to say it, we're in a climate where millions are uninsured, and let me repeat, these shots are free, this is still a perception that people have that if they have to go to a doctor or pharmacy, they'll still by charged. employers can send messages, and
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i think that's an absolute policy kind of support and given employers that language, is actually the role of the federal government. this is what you do in government. you bring big support so that bigging, whether they're fortune 500 or a two-person barbershop on the corner don't feel like they will lose clients or business or employees as a result of this. >> jonathan, there's some interesting reporting that gets at dr. patel's point about the benefit of transparency. the transparency around halting the j&j shots seems to have had some positive impact, in that the number of people who won't get vaccinated is unchanged since january of. are there lessons learned? what is the white house forward-looking plan on increasing vaccine acceptance. sort of the vaccine scared, the
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vaccine hesitant group, what is their focus on moving that group? >> well, first, nicolle, i'll note i'm getting my shot in about two hours, which is a blessing, but wish me luck. in terms of the white house -- >> let me just tell you -- i hope you're not on "morning joe" tomorrow morning. >> i think i have -- they have -- joe and mika have been gracious to get me one morning off, so i'll hydrate and sleep. this is something the biden administration is wrestling with. yes, they know there's a percentage of people who flat-out refuse to get the vaccine. many of them are conservative republicans. they know they will be much harder to convince. it's more of the his tans or thought who will eventually take it, but almost need it delivered to them. that will happen it, house calls even for vaccines, that will increase in terms of their outreach.
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the johnson & johnson pause here, you know, it does indeed on one hand it shows how rigorous the science is. but they also recognize privately that it has done some damage to the confidence. perhaps some people on the fence are now much more reluctant to get it, because they're afraid. they feel like it might be rushed, even though the overwhelming number have been just fine. this seems to be out of an abundance of caution. the white house -- there was an ad campaign that's rolling out. you're certainly hearing from public figures. including senate majority leader mcconnell who has been good on this issue. more than anything, they're relying on word of mouth, relying on friends and neighbors, local physicians, relying on trying to urge them to convince their neighbors to get the shot, but i think we are -- we recognize they have stalled a bit here. they're way ahead of the pace they they. undoubtedly this is good
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progress, but they know they'll have to go further. they're going to try to take the vaccines door to door, have mass vaccinations sites at grocery stores, ball games, whatever it takes. >> they do look at the spheres of influence, for better or worse, not having much to do with any of us, brad paisley has a new psa out. they're looking at people in entertainment. baseball is getting involved in a vaccine campaign. we'll stay on all of it. dr. patel, and jonathan, i will be think of you in two hours, and more importantly, in 24. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. 24. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started vo: and these aren't just the jobs of tomorrow. they're the jobs of right now. good paying jobs to modernize our infrastructure. in manufacturing. construction. engineering. they're in our cities... in our suburbs... and our small towns...
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i served as a law enforcement officer for 27 years. it is a tough job, and good police officers deserve your support. you know, it's interesting to see my colleagues on the other side of the aisle support the police when it is politically convenient to do so. law enforcement officers risk their lives every day. they deserve better, and the american people deserve -- i have the floor, mr. jordan -- did i strike a nerve? law enforcement officers deserve better than to be utilized as pawns. >> the gentlelady will -- >> you should be ashamed of yourselves.
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hi, again, that was an explosive exchange in the house. it took place when jim jordan attempted to interrupt val demmings. it captures the gop's refusal to even try to meet the moment in the wake of floyd's death and the nationwide reckoning on racial injugs. it came during a debate over another piece of legislation, the covid-19 hate crimes act, which seeks to address is surge in racist attacks against asian americans in part by providing funding to law enforcement agencies to respond to hate crimes. demmings took her republican colleagues to task over a proposed amendment. demmings called the amendment completely irrelevant, because the bill, the actual bill they're debating makes for mention of defunding law
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enforcement. republicans politicizing a bill on combatting hate crimes, all while remaining steadfast in their opposition about doing anything about police reform. instead of addressing the issues, a rep party is now working to silence and punish those seeking to bring attention to the problems in this condition country. in minnesota a measure is being considered that would make anyone convicted as a crime in protest inel jell for student aid. in oklahoma a bill was passed already to grant immunity to drivers whose vehicles kill or injure protester while fleeing from a riot. in indiana a bill is under consideration that would prohibit anyone convicted of unlawful assembly from being employed by the state, including holding elected office. in florida, a new law passed this week increases penalties for crimes committed during
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protests and boosts protections for police. governor ron desantis called it the strongest anti-looting anti-rioting pro-law enforcement piece of legislation in the country. if that sentiment were not enough, last night fox news' crown jewel tucker carlson railed against the chauvin verdict -- that it was the nationwide protests that ultimately pressured the jury to reach the decision it reached. it had nothing to do with that 9 1/2-minute tape or the testimony of dozens of witnesses. watch. >> the jury in the derek chauvin trial came to a unanimous an unequivocal verdict, please don't hurt us. the jurors spoke for many of us in this country. everyone understood perfectly well the -- after a year of nearly burning, murder and looting by blm, that was never
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in doubt. the gop's obstruction, the -- is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friend. eugene daniels is here, coought thor of politico's playbook, erin haines, and former republican congressman david jolley, lucky for us, all three msnbc contributors. david, you know how discerning i am about repeating the most vile things that are out there, but in the wake of the insurrection, we won't look at the ugliest things being mainlined into audiences that sought to hang mike pence on january 6th. it's important to understand the reaction of the most watched person on that network and hi reaction was to impugn the jury and attack the rule of law. it seems to be setting the country on a very perilous and as val demmings was trying to
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say, a polarized path that shouldn't be political. >> nicolle, this is exactly what culture war politics looks like, repleat with racial undertones that cannot be overlooked. republicans and their voices in the immediate what want this war, because it stokes and riles up what is today's rep base, what is today's trumpist republican base. so they are going full on into the culture war. that clip from val demmings shows us one thing she should be the national spokesperson for the democratic party on issues of policing, because these are very complex issues. this is not black and white political issues, if you will. certainly they can be defined along race in those terms, but they're not clearly definable issues. you heard her wrestle with the fact that there are police officers, the vast majority that are good and do good work, but there are also those that need
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to be held accountable. nicolle, i spoke with a leading major city police chief recently. his words echoed nearly exactly val demmings, that he was tired of being used as a pawn. in his case, he's an apolitical person. he was talking in politics at large how police are being used for political arguments. val demmings is a voice of reason and responsibility, a mature voice, with over 20 years experience on these issues. we should be listening to her in these moments, not the voices of jim jordan and tucker carlson and the culture war republicans. >> we spent a lot of time here talking about the voter suppression laws. i want to share some reporting about these anti-protest laws. indiana a bill is under consideration that will prohibit anyone convicted of unlawful assembly from being employed by the state, including holding
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elected office. i read that and wondered if john lewis were from indiana, if we ever would have had john lewis. these laws seek to ignore so much of our country's history of protest movements turning into progress, turning into action, and turning into some of our most important elected officials. >> nicolle, once again, you know, these bills targeting protesters, 9 largely overwhelmably peaceful protesters, by the way, from the national reckoning on race last summer continue to be a solution in search of a problem. really it just kind of exposes the disparity between the response, especially on the gop side to these protesters and the january 6th insurrectionists. you know, where is the
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legislation attempting to hold people accountable who attempted to, you know, attack the u.s. capitol. there's no discussion about that, and yet there seems to be kind of this urgent need in statehouses across the country to deal with people who are calling for an end to the unrelenting killing of black people in this country. you have to ask what is that about and why that is, because that is certainly is not the national threat to our security that our government has identified. our government has identified that threat as, you know, white extremism. >> that's right. let me just -- not that erin ever needs bolstering, but let me add to her point. "the washington post" has this fact check -- protesters were clover whelmingly peaceful, we found the overall levels of violence and property destruction were low.
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most of the violence that did take place -- wait for it -- was directed against the black lives matter protesters. only 3.7% of the protests involved property damage or vand level. some portion of these involved neither police or protesters. in short, our data suggests that 96.3% of events involved no property damage, and 97.7% of events. no injuries reported among participants, bystanders or police. >> to your point -- go ahead, errin. >> to your point, the same cannot be said for the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. millions of dollars in damage to property, definite le injuries, deaths that occurred as a result of that day. so, you know, you would think that that would be a serious and
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urgent problem in need of addressing with federal legislation -- i'm sorry -- legislation at the state level since so many people came from different parts of the country to converge on the capitol and the u.s. capitol. that is not the conversation we're having. instead we're having a conversation about what to do about thinks whoever whelmingly peaceful people calling to an end to violence against themselves and their community. you have to ask why. >> well, it's a new numerical contrast, eugene 97.7% every events had no incidence of violence. we node of, what, 300 arrests from the capitol insurrection so far and counting. there were a couple thousands people there. the two movements themselves tell a very bleak story about where the violence is coming
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from, where the warnings and threats in this country and extremism, they're on white, and supremacy, and i wonder what sense you make of this new front in the big lie, the new front in the gop disinformation is around police reform. >> we keep saying it, and we talk about it being overwhelmingly peaceful, but those numbers, 97.7, that's basically 100%. i don't know -- but it's this conflation that has been happening from these peaceful protests, and also some of the, you know, the less than 3% of the violence that happens. when you talk about why people went to the streets after george floyd was murdered versus what we saw in the insurrection, the insurrection happened because then president trump and other republicans lied about the election. that is what happened.
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it had nothing to do with what we have seen with the antiracism protests which are people demanding things to change. when this conflation happens, it's on purpose, right? it makes it really easy to ignore what protesters are saying, asking and calling for if you say they are rioters, if you have a bill that says you can run people over if they are clogging the streets. that's okay and fine, and it's something we've seen before. it's also styed to the rhetoric we saw from donald trump about look at the scary people clogging of your roadways, destroying your city other town, aren't they a menace? that's something that republicans in states have taken from rhetoric and turned into these laws. what's really interesting, and you talk about this quite a bit, nicolle, there's been a whitewashing of the nextists in so many ways from members of the right, especially in people in
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right-wing media, and they find themselves able to differentiate between the people hitting police officers and those that claim that they were just walking around and weren't doing anything violent. there's no issue with separating those two groups for them. it's only if, you know, when there's a blm protest add the less than 3% of rioting or violence at night where there's an issue between putting the groups separately. so it's on purpose and it doesn't seem like it's going to stop at all. it's a rallying cry. >> and the dang ir, david, is what they're doing with these lies. they took trump's lie about the election and they're pushing 108 laws in 47 states to suppress access to the polls. they're now taking this lie about what is 97.7% peaceful protests around the murder, we now can call it a murder,
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because that is what a jury concluded -- the murder of george floyd. it's quite a remarkable number, frankly, 97.7% peaceful in response and reaction to that. but what they are doing is they're electricing arrange a second lie. i think what's really important and what we shouldn't lose sight of is the three legs are in place. the bick lie around the election is what they'll do to ram voter suppression laws, the big lie about black lives matter, that's where they're going to have all the heat, where they're going to book their bests around all those lies on right-wing media. they're going to use them to propel estate legislatures to pass what errin described as solutions looking for problems. the third is their addiction to identity politics, their refusal to call white supremists white supremacists and refusal to describe terror threats as
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terror threats. >> nicolle, i would say beyond identity politics, politics of race and race baiting. this goes back decades to some old tried-and-true tricks of the republican party to create fear around race. if republicans were serious about doing something about violence in the united states today, instead of approaching restrictions on the right to assembly and right to speech, they would be approaching issues around access to firearms. parents are more worried today about sending their kids to a white suburban high school than they are letting kids participate in a black lives matter protests. that's the reality of where we are in the country today, yet republicans are trying to define this around issues of protests and assembly, and largely around racial overtones to each of those freedoms of expression. these are moments where a lot of people look to our politics and say i don't see the answers there. i know democrats are fighting very hard on the side of social
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justice, and they should be. i think the vast majority of the american people are with them. when where he see the exchanges and breakdowns in what we're seeing in congress, there's a lot of faith lost. first and foremost to the republican party, but then to a greater audience, people who want government not to lie to us multiple times over issues of greatest import where voters are today. >> i want to come back to you, gene -- i've watched val demmings, i'm fascinated and impressed by her. i have never seen that much anger and emotion from her in a public setting, but she has company on the right in her conclusions about what the republican party has been reduced to. this is a piece from max boot. the republican party has embraced trumpism without trump. this is not a set of policy preferences. beyond allegiance to -- it's
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more of a mindless attitude, owning about the libs, and waging culture wars as a way to rile up the rabid base and keep the cash register ringing. does that end any prospect of bipartisan -- do you not even ask that question anymore? what is sort of -- we see the things that are public, but what is happening behind the scenes between the two parties? >> what's happening in public is what we're seeing especially from members of the house, members of the gop house. we saw john boehner go on his book tour and talk about the party that he used to be a leader of becoming a party that doesn't legislate. they have been embraced, just like max boot said, this politics of contempt. that is what president trump and trump inch was about. it wasn't about policy prescriptions. it was about, you know, overpowering people.
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it wasn't about compromise. that -- you can't legislate when there's no compromise. if there's someone that -- if you are going to try to paint her as anti-police, it can't be val demmings, a former police chief, right? that is not the person you can do that with. you're right, she hasn't really had an interaction like this publicly that we have seen, but it seems to me -- and i talked to democrats and republicans behind the scenes, there's a frustration building, especially on the left about this, about finding an ability to talk about issues without republicans kind of putting in these culture war things. as you said at the top, this bill they talked about was about violence against the aapi community in this country, which has been disgusting to watch. we've watched grandmothers be kicked in front of hotels and people closing doors and not helping them. everyone should be concerned about this. so trying to add an amendment
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that has absolutely nothing to do with what the bill wants to do is what democrats point to when they say the republican party doesn't even want to legislate. so there's so many things that joe biden, his administration wants to get done, and they don't -- joe biden really does want to do things in a bipartisan manner. people have a hard time believe it, but what we're seeing with the infrastructure bill, they're having meetings. what i've been told in those meeks, the meme there are more serious and they're not having these screaming fights. they are having these conversation but the cameras aren't there, right? so because of what then president trump has done with the republican party, making it about politics of contempt, when you get in front of the cameras, these same people act different live. that's something hard to counter act when you have to get legislation done.
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>> or when you get off camera, it's hard to walk back and say i didn't mean any of that. eugene daniels is sticking around. errin, thank you. and david jolley, congratulations on your wonderful news. it fills our hearts with joy. is anybody sleeping? >> no, no, but you used the word jody. a few times in life you get to experience joy. we nope happiness and excitement, but joy is a rare thing. laura and i are experiencing a lot of joy with the birth of our son this week. >> congratulations. >> all our love. >> thank you. super it is sublime to this, outrage and disgust over marjorie taylor greene's tweet. plus new concerns that the pentagon's crackdown on extremism in the military might be overlooking a big faction of those who took part in the riot. vladimir putin's warning to
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fresh off the implosion from her plans, marjorie taylor greene is once again drawing sharp criticism it claims that black lives matters has proven
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itself to be the most powerful domestic terrorism organization in our country. that spark a rebuke. in her brief time as a republican star, she is has peddled qanon conspiracy theories, that egged on the insurrection, and tweeted a racist statement in the wake of the derek chauvin verdict. while democrats are fight fog racial justice, republicans continue to let his conduct go unpunished. congressman, you could say that amplifying the most extreme mesh of the caucus might not be productive, but this whole caucus and its leader had a chance to say we're not her and she's not us, and they passed on it. what what do you make of that fact? >> that's the critical point.
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the point is whether voices lie marjorie taylor greene's are driving the decision making in the republican caucus. there's proof that they are, 199 republicans voted to keep her on the education committee when they had a chance to do the right thing, right? they just took $175,000 from her because she's raisings all the money. so the point is they are taking their cue from marjorie taylor greene, taking their money from marjorie taylor greene. that's the difference between trying to say there's a person saying crazy things and a whole political caucus, one major political party going down the dark roads of racism and white supplement sit and conspiracy theories and all the things we now know she promotes. >> well, i get you could say they're just being crazy, let
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them watch the 8:00 p.m. hour and talk among themselves, but they're legislating at a really fast pace. we've covered for weeks the voter suppression laws, 108 of them in total. we've been talking today about laws to criminalize protests, when all the violence really was on the right-wing extremists, 97.7 of the black lives matter protests were peaceful. it's no longer about dismantling the lies to you and your colleagues, you have to slow and stop the policymaking in response to the lies. how do you do that? >> thank goodness we have the capacity in the united states congress to continue to deliver for the american people. while they seek to divide americans, we are delivering for americans, we are putting checks in people's pockets, shots in people's arms, hundreds of billions going to middle-class families trying to pay health insurance premiums, trying to put food on the table, keep
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their small business apart. we have to combat the other side's efforts to engage in gerrymandering in this desperate hope that their extremism can still cobble together a majority in the house. i think one more point, we should not deceive ourselves that the politics of this can be difficult. we are the party of john lewis, right? we know that when we start to march across one of these bridges on the road to civil rights, there can be people on the other side with barking dogs and fire hoses and billy clubs. it's our job not to just walk blindly into that violence, but to understand the risks and to be smart about it so that we prevail and maintain the capacity to keep doing these good things we're doing for the american people. >> i want to bring in our friend eugene daniels into the question. he has a question for you, sir. >> congressman, good to see you.
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were your colleagues has proposed to expel marjorie taylor greene. should the house vote on that? you've talked about and other democrats have talked about how she's dangerous. i'm curious if you would support a bill to propose to expel her from congress? >> you know, i'm willing to look at that. i think this is an issue for the voters of that district, to ask themselves why they would send this person to congress, but more broadly, i'm not going to take kevin mccarthy off the hook when he should shep up. if there was a member on our side there would be consequences. let's remember, in the past they did discipline members like steve king, so what has changed? why do they embrace a woman like marjorie taylor greene, when they gave more criticism and more grief to someone like liz cheney, who committed the sin of saying the insurrection was wrong and donald trump had something to do with it. i don't want to let them off the hook. i think they should take span for this.
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>> congressman i want your reaction to the verdict yesterday and the attorney general's announcement today, and the president's speech last night, trying to make sure that the verdict doesn't supplement or replace any real action on the policy front around police reform. >> right. well, first of all, you know, i was there in the cloakroom with a lot of my colleagues watching the verdict. it was an extraordinary moment. >> it was. >> i real eugene's reflection this morning. first of all, this is a lot. there's a lot of people in our country who are trying to grapple with all the emotions they're feeling. it's been a long year of waiting for this decision. thank go there had accountability, but in the new democratic majority, we are resolved that we have work to do, that we have actions to take. it starts with enacting into law the george floyd justice in policing act so there are body cameras in more of these
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incidents and we can see what really happened. there are national standards and accreditation for police, there's a registry of misconduct, there are things that the justice department can do when there's wrongdoing. in other words, practical reforms so we elevate good policing and we isolate these incidents so that they stop happening, because, you know, daunte wright is still dead, and we know that until we stop the violence, then we have work to do. that's where our heads are, we have a responsibility to deliver now on real reform. >> so, eugene, the congressman mentioned your reflections. i'm going to read them now. epps. as the trial unfolded on tv, we wondered whether the video recorded by a teenager name darnella frazier would be enough. guilty on all counts, crowds outside the courthouse cheered
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and chanted. they and i felt a wave of relief. i thought this should be a turning point, but being reminded this is just one case, and an extraordinary one at that, with nearly a ten-minute video of the crime. how are you feeling today, 24 hours later, eugene? >> um, i think, like most black people, the george floyd murder was one that really shook me. i think, you know, it shook a lot of people all over the world, but for black people, it was a reminder of every -- i wrote this, too -- every single interaction we've had with police. after watching it over and over, afternoon reporting on it, after talk to go every family member, after talk to go my colleagues
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about it, explaining these things, why black people feel scared at times, and i was crying, i couldn't catch my breath, and it is because the pressure of watching something like that and knowing that it could happen to you, right? like i've had interactions with police, and my parents have always taught us, you know, you have to respect cops, you have to move slowly when you're talking to them. keep your hands at 10 and 2, say yes, sir, yes, ma'am, keep your wallet outside so you can grab it. so watching, you know, derek chauvin be convicted on all counts, it was this moment of relief. i did have this kind of thought that, you know, maybe now people will see how bad it is, but then, you know, a ten-minute video, cops having to get on the stand against him, it doesn't
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seem that way. i got there because a lot of activists i talk to reminded me of that. this is one case. so i think that i'm still worried. i live in washington, d.c. and still have been asked by police officers, walking where i used to liver, what am i doing in this neighborhood? a question that is none of their business really. i am walking in my own neighborhood. that is the things i think a lot of black americans are thinking about today, and hopeful, you know, congress can do something hopeful, that we continue to have these conversations. it's not just a policing issue, it's a cultural issue.
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>> thank you both for having this conversation with us today. when we come back, in the wake of the capitol riot, the pentagon's effort to root out extremism among the military is falling short among one key group. that story is next. falling short among one key group. that story is next when you buy this plant at walmart,
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we have reported on the pentagon's effort to weed out insurrection.
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the new reporting suggests that those efforts may be missing the biggest part of the problem. according to arrest records compiled by "the washington post," at least had 4 of the 83 people charged have ties to the armed services. and 93% are veterans, with no official plan to address extremism, d.o.d. and other government agencies are struggling to figure out how best to focus their efforts? olivia troy joins us. everything we have talked about today has its roots in lies being told by republican officials and media figures to a susceptible base, it would appear based on this reporting, includes a whole bunch of
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veterans. >> this comes down to disinformation that is out there, that is per investigative on some of these news networks pushing these narratives and elevating them. you know, it's a problem. we have, you know, these people -- veterans have served our country, served to protect our freedoms, but with that comes a whole narrative of looking up to the elected officials. when you're telling them that elections are being stolen and that there's this whole election integrity thing and our country is being overtaken, and you're also pushing the sort of white nationalism narrative, and you're feeding these false narratives to them day in and day out and they're tuned into these networks, they're going to listen and believe them. we really have to figure out how
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to grapple with this going forward. >> olivia, i want to read more about our views. "the washington post" goes on to say the veterans who responded to trump's call had a wide variety of service experiences. most had unremarkable duties ranging from mechanicing to warehouse clerks. the most common job was infantry, but fewer than hoff deployed to a combat zone. some had -- for instance, one had been stripped of rank and kicked out of the army with a punitive discharge after going absent without leave. i wonder what the solution is from a policy perspective. we talk almost on a daily basis about the pervasive nature of the lies on the right, the way it's sort of self-if you filling, but this feels like a
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third rail here. i know the pentagon has taken quick and aggressive action for active duty, but what do you do you about the veterans community? >> i think part of it also is what happens with a transition when they leave the military, right? they belong to this organization, and while they're in it, they're a part of an identity. what happens when they transition to civilian life? is there any follow-up of what's hatching? what are we doing to partner with community organizations or follow up in terms of how they're assimilating back into society, and what kind of follow-up is happening when they do get decent charged for these cases when there's bad conduct? what are they doing when they go back to society? at the end of the day these are highly trained individuals. so when you have bad actors recruiting them to their organizations and they decide to
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act, that is when this is fundamentally dangerous. we saw that happen on january 6th. they report to networks, groups like the oath keepers recruit from these ranks. they use their contact cal information and training to act on it. it can lead to loss of life, which we saw. >> it's just amazing, the government training them and then they turn their training on the government, at least in the case of the capitol insurrection. listening you speak, it's almost undeniable that a counter-extremism filter will have to be laid over any solution, because we're talking about people who go from one identification and association to sometimes nothing, sometimes one that isn't as fulfilling. so great to have your insights. thank you for spending time with us today. when we return, vladimir putin's big threat to the west, as tensions in russia are mounting. the top putin critic navalny
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said to be near death. wile talk about the looming challenges facing the biden white house. that's next. facing the biden white house. that's next. is what business is all about it's what the united states postal service has always been about so as your business changes, we're changing with it with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now next day and two-day shipping nationwide same day shipping across town returns right from the doorstep and deliveries seven days a week it's a whole new world out there let's not keep it waiting
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progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. -donny, no. -oh. vladimir putin did his best today to project strength and control during his annual state of the nation address, insisting any country threatening russia would regret it like anything else they have regretted before. just this week the pentagon has confirmed a steady increase in russian troops deployed to occupy crimea near their border with ukraine. perhaps the greatest threat to his control happens to be within russian borders. today supporters of his chief political opponent, alexei navalny staged a nationwide protest during putin's speech.
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you know, i don't speak russian, i thought about learning it over the last four years, but it was almost like watching putin act like trump acting line putin. these sort of brute displays of strength are always a sign of a weak leader. >> nicolle, thanks for having me. i think it's right these things are likely connected. putin is under a lot of pressure. we have the protests right now, but there have been major protests on and off across russia for months now. this is pressure that putin has been feeling for some time and, you know, there are a lot of other domestic problems that have him under the gun, including the coronavirus, which has hit russia really heart. putin's popularity has been falling. what are you seeing? increases bellicosity, thoughts of western threats and meddling,
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and intervention, and now this amazing troop buildup on the border of ukraine, can no with country figure out, is this the real thing or not? it would be consist president with an invasion and with epic bluster, distraction and nationalistic chest beating. >> i want to break down both of those, the troop buildup, but i want to start with navalny. his wife went out today and greeted warmly by the protesters. tell me if there is right or wrong, that we are watching him die in front of our eyes. is there not more that this country can do with our allies on a diplomatic front to save his life? >> well, there is always more you can do. it's a really tough one when you have such a specific isolated individual to whom we don't have
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access, he's in the russian prison system. look, the largest context is -- i mean, certainlied biden administration does not want anything more to happen to navalny, at the same time they are trying to keep the relationship with russia from boiling relationship with russia boiling over. biden and his team do not want to be consumed by russia at a time they are tackling other huge priorities. there is more they can do, but they need to find a way divert it. i'm sure there are private communications underway right now. i would say also if it's reassuring at all to people, i don't think it's in putin's interest at all for navalny to die. i understand that he poses a huge political threat. but, you know, he's imprisoned right now. he can't run for office. and although these protests have to be threatening to putin, he has done a fairly good job of surviving them so far. i think navalny dying and the international outcry that it
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would cause at this point might not give him that much benefit. so that could be a consolation here. >> and other than just putin being putin, is the troop buildup on the border a test for biden? is it a distraction against putin's domestic troubles? there is the analysis of putin's motives there. >> so, nicole, one always wants to sound authoritative like they have the answer, but i just don't think there is a clear answer. you know, lots of smart people are coming through different places at this. some people think this looks like a duck and acts like a duck so this is the beginning of an invasion. but some people think that is a distraction and a diversion and essentially the real test for biden isn't to sort of man up, as they say, and rush to a fight but to not be distracted by it, to keep his cool and not let putin -- you know, as you said,
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much the way donald trump liked to do, not let putin crash your psychological party at will and just command the news and command your attention at all times and try to keep things in perspective and proportion. having said that, you have to take a buildup this large very seriously. but again, maybe the test is not to overreact and play into putin's hands. >> it is so smart to look at it that way and to really -- you know, there are not very many people you can say this of. but president biden has seen it all. i mean, decades of the senate foreign relations committee. i'm sure you're correct in how he's approaching this. it is really great to see you. we will be calling on you again, my friend. thank you so much. when we return, as we do every day, we will remember lives well-lived. we will remember li well-lived we sweat the details. ask for what we want. get what we need. and we need more time. so, we want kisqali. living longer is possible and proven with kisqali
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thank you. "the beat" can ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicole. welcome to "the beat" with ari melber. derek chauvin is in prison today as a convicted murderer for taking george floyd's life. that's according to the jury. you are looking at the new


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