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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  April 20, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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expect them to do it by themselves. it doesn't systemically belong to them before itself. it belongs to a larger problematic system. >> thank you very much, sir. i appreciate that. my thanks to everyone who joined our special coverage. the jury is about to deliver a verdict. our breaking coverage continues with "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace right now. hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in the east. the jury has reached a verdict in the murder trial of derek chauvin less than 24 hours after taking up the case, 11 hours of deliberation by the jury in all. that verdict will be read out in court sometimes between 4:30 and 5:00 eastern time. the charges up for debate by this jury lund second-degree unintentional murder, which carries a maximum sentence of 40 years. third-degree murder, the max mustn't sentence of 25 years, and second-degree manslaughter with a maximum sentence of ten
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years. the city of minneapolis and the entire country is on edge, depending on the result. president biden finally weighing in earlier today, calling the evidence in the case overwhelming, strongly suggesting that he's hoping for a guilty verdict, but calling for calm, no matter the outcome. here were his remarks on the case and on the grief that the floyd family is still enduring. >> i've come to know george floyd's family, and so i can only imagine the pressure and anxiety they're feeling. they're a good family. they're calling for peace and tranquility, no matter what that verdict is.
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i'm praying the verdict is the right verdict, which i think is overwhelming in my view. i wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequestered now, not hearing me say that. >> the biden administration already has been gearing up for any response when the verdict comes down. that preparation includes reaching out to national guards, minneapolis officials and civil rights groups on the ground and all across the country. the white house has also made a plan for the president to address the nation as soon as the verdict is known. that is where we start today. we have with us for our rolling coverage, shaquille brewster in minneapolis, as usual. also with us former prosecutor and former senator claire mccaskill. claire let me start with you. i've been glad to your twitter feed. as a former prosecutor, is there anything reliability to be read into the timing of these jury deliberations? >> well, i think the one thing we can state with some certainty
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is they were unanimous fairly quickly. typically what takes a long time in jury deliberations is when you are some contrarians against what the majority of the jury thinking is the right thing to do. so much, nicolle, having tried many murder cases myself and having been on a jury myself, so much revolves around the foreman or forewoman and how strong their leadership is to organize the jury and to go through the three counts they had to decide on. murder 2, which is felony murder, that derek chauvin caused the death of george floyd by committing assault, the felony crime of assault, our murder 3, which is basically recklessness, a deparagraphity of mind, he didn't care whether his actions would kill them, and finally manslaughter, which is
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negligence gens causing the death. that's where i think the jury had to spend their time, whether the facts supported either murder 2, murder 3, or manslaughter. if you had a well-organized foreperson you could move through those fairly quickly, especially if there's a great deal of agreement, whether it was guilty or not guilty. i do think -- i would be much more nervous right now if i were the defense than i would be if i were the prosecution. >> claire's theory, shaq, feeds into the fireworks we witnessed yesterday, but i wonder if we could take us into your shoes and tell us what it was like when this word came down when a verdict had been reached and with what your understanding is about how they got to that judgment so quickly. >> reporter: well, nicolle, we really just don't know. we don't have many details on
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how the jury came to this decision. all we were told by the court is when jury deliberations were set to begin, and we knew when a verdict was going to be announced. those are the notifications we received. of course, we were in a state of standby throughout the day. i believe the total was about 11 hours of total deliberations. but i will tell you, all throughout the day, something you noticed different compared to what we saw during the testimony, even during the jury selection period, you saw a presence downtown. it's something that grew throughout the day, even before we got word of a verdict being announced. i don't know if you saw an interview i did with a young woman named ashley, who said he was coming down to show support for george floyd, to get a sense of what was going on. that's how she found out that a verdict had been reached and a vertebra will be announced later
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today. it's a sense that everybody has been waiting and watching for this. through the entire area, of the 3,000 national guard troops that have will be been stationed for much of the week across the city. you have a situation where many private businesses are boarded up all through the downtown area. it's not like that everywhere you go, but definitely in the downtown around around the courthouse, you have an intense feeling, with the physical barriers as well as the emotional barriers. the minnesota public school system is going to be virtual for the rest of the week. that was announced earlier today. i believe though came in last night when they learned that students would be learning virtually. so people have been on edge, not only here in minneapolis, but obviously across the country. we were obviously waiting for that notification. once we got it, it was posted to
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the court's website, we were getting ready. we're just waiting and getting ready to see what happens once that court comes back into session in about 20 minutes or so, nicolle. >> claire, it is imminent, we have learned and report that derek chauvin and his attorney, mr. eric nelson have returned to the courthouse to hear the verdict. the white house made clear today that all of that sort of national guard presence that shaq is describing was something they put in place to protect everybody to deal with any outcome, but also they plan for the president to address the nation as soon as a verdict is known. it's such a different, i guess, tone is the most gentle way to put it from the white house at this point, isn't it? >> yeah. of course, once again, joe biden shows his empathy when he had a
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moment to speak about the case, he talked about george floyd's family, about his daughter and how beautiful she is, his brothers, and, you know, in way that everybody in america can relate to. that's what joe biden is very good at, making sure that he expresses to america what all of us feel about our families, and that this is for that family a particularly stressful time, but also stressing that that family wants peace, doesn't want violence. the only thing that is a little unusual here, between this and other trials, and this speaks to the preparation, is how long they're taking between the time the jury was reached and when the verdict -- when the verdict was reached and when the vertebra is going to be published. typically everyone is very close to the courthouse, and you are,
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if you are a prosecutor, you're a couple floors away. if you're a defense lawyer, you're nearby in a room waiting with your client, and you go immediately into the room and it's published fairly quickly. i am surmising that they're taking the time to prepare so they can get the jury out of the courthouse quickly and cleanly and with some anonymity. i know the judge will feel very protective of these jurors, that they not be bothered by the media or by anyone who has passion about this case. he's really going to want to wrap them in a cloak of anonymity and get them out of there, so they have the right to remain anonymous and not be chased to their homes or chased with a microphone. >> shaq, do you want to weigh in on that? do you have any reporting on what claire describes as an extraordinary amount of time between all of es you learning
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that a -- >> reporter: it was certainly signaled. we did not know it for sure. there wasn't a timeline, but it was certainly signaled we would get a heads-up, there is an hour or so heads-up. many of those reasons are logistical. this is a trial for the first time in state's history you can watch. it's livestreamed, but broadcast, so there had to be maneuvering. we knew the pool reporters would get a heads-up if the jury came back with a question, for example. we knew if they even came back for a question, the jury would not appear in the actual courtroom. they were going to appear via zoom while the attorneys and judge would appear in the courtroom. can you blame coronavirus, the high-profile nature of the case, but for many reasons we did have an idea we would get a bit of a heads-up.
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you can see it a bit of some of the buildings in the downtown area getting notification, along with the court, that if they were planning to shut down, this is the time for them to shut down. i mentioned the boarded-up buildings in the downtown area, many of them have wood planks that are separated from the actual glass structures that they can close in like a barn door fashion. you've gotten the idea the city was calling operation safety net, a coordinate between local and state law enforcement, even between private industries, that level of communication. i think is it makes sense there's some gap in between when there was a notification of a verdict and when that verdict is being announced, because it gives a lot of people time to essentially prepare for whatever the reaction to that verdict will be. >> it is 4:11 -- 3:11 in
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minneapolis. we expect a verdict 3:30 in the time zone where it's happening. no one is going anywhere. we're all going to be here together through all of this, but i want to add former u.s. attorney joyce vance. we were close enough here i'm not going to ask you to speculate about the speed with which the jury reached a conclusion, but i do want to come back to the closing arguments. the state set to ask -- they essentially pleaded with the jurors to believe their eyes, believe what they saw take place for 9 minutes, 29 seconds, to believe all of the testimony over three weeks of all the things that george floyd may have done or not done, but the single variable being derek chauvin's knee on his neck. just looking at the way they
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closed, what is your sense of the lasting impressions that the jurors may have gone into deliberation with. >> it was important about the argument trust your eyes, trust what you saw was made in the context of what caused george floyd ace death. the prosecution said you don't have to listen to the defense. for one thing they got the law wrong. for another thing they're try to go give you a bench of other crazy causes. they put up that wonderful graphic that show the how many days george floyd had been alive for, and said the defense is asking to to speculation on this one one tiny dot, suddenly the underlying conditions happened to kill him at the same time that it was under derek chauvin's knee. the prosecution did a one of i don't feel of talking about the evidence and helping the jury view the evidence in a way this
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jury could have found, repositive any reasonable doubt in their minds about the cause of george floyd's death. crystal balls a jury verdict is a dangerous business, but this was a quick vertebra, and it indicates that this jury found it easy to come together on the charges against derek chauvin. >> do juries look at the three charges and ever have a tendency to maybe settle on the middle ground? or do you think the evidence is determinative of what conclusion they reached? >> judge construct juries to but juniors are human beings so what you'll sometime here is a jury that's deadlocked will end up compromising in order to reach a
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verdict, but for many juries, i would say mo foust of the juries i've been able to talk with after a trial is over, they look at the evidence, and they reached a verdict on each of the charges based solely on that evidence and the law. snow one is going anywhere, but i want to add to our conversation nbc correspondent megan fitzgerald. she's in minneapolis for us. she spoke with the floyd family last night. megan, what is the latest from your perch? >> reporter: in speaking with the family, you know, there's a real sense of anxiety with the family and wanting the process to be over. they've been in the courtroom watching every single moment, so i asked what do you think this is going to be? they said they're very hopeful he'll be found guilty on all
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three charges, and also encouraged by the protests they saw last night, excited to see it was peaceful, hoping it will continue to be peaceful, but this is a deeply personal trial for the entire country. we see that playing out, speaking to many protesters who have cup here from all across country says it was important to go here, and of course they took to the streets shortly after the jury started deliberation, nicolle. >> meagan, i remember so crystal clear in the early days after george floyd was killed, the family being on the street calling for people to be involved in the political process. the family has been consistent
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in calling for peaceful protest. i wonder if you can speak a bit to, are they aware of how -- they spoke with president biden today, but is it something they're eager to talk about or just aware of this tinker box the country is in. >> reporter: i think it's both. they understand what is on the line here. i had this conversation yesterday with philonise, he said this is about the country. if there's not a guilty verdict here, that sends a message that black lives don't seem to
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matter, because he said his brother was executed on the street for all to see so they are praying, they said, leaning on prayer but understanding the pain and anger that's out there, but calling on everything to be peaceful. he doesn't want his brother's name to be tarnished by violence. so again on pins and needles for sure, as we await that vertebra. verdict. i want to add to our conversation chief legal correspondent and host of "the beat" my friend and colleague ari melber. what would we be feeling moments away? what does it say to you that they came to this after 11 hours of deliberation? >> a great question.
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a similar to some degree case a officer mohammed nour, they went 11 hours and reached a conviction. when you look at other cases in other states, jason van dyke was convicted in illinois, the deliberation ran about 7 1/2 hours. when you think of other examples where the jury cannot come to a resolution that usually does take longer. the only -- a recent mistrial michael slager, it took 22 hours. so we know when a jury meets for this long, over the course of a couple days here that they have apparently resolved to the best of their ability what they think
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happened. my observation to that would be fairly straight forward they would have had appeared to have gone through the three charges and reached a verdict. >> ari, i think the closing arguments went on longer than expected, the prosecution really coming back to almost a human appeal to believe what you see and heard from the bystanders, closing on that line that derek championships -- or that george floyd didn't die because his hard was too big, but derek chauvin's heart was too small. i guess the result will bear out whether that was effective, but what did you make of the closing argument? >> i thought it was incredibly powerful.
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whether it's policing or a doctor, or someone in the mull tear, is that we have seen juries feel some deference, even some intimidation by the idea, well, they know better or they do something technical. i thought the prosecution was able to make it human today, and you can trust yourself, trust your eyes, trust your mind, what did you see happen? did it look like reasonable force or excessive force? did it look like something that kept people safe? or something that itself caused danger? so i thought that was very strong in the closing. what we heard from the defense was again trying to poke out and make it sound more like a complex inquiry than the prosecution. stack all these different things to get them to think, gosh,
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how -- we're all awaiting this verdict and will do it responsibly and follow the law, follow the evidence, hear what the court through this jury decided, is we are a long ways from that initial incident when mr. floyd was killed on camera, when the world, america and the world react to it we are a long ways from last summer. >> i now you are responsible for anchoring hours after this, but i hope you can stay and be a part of this coverage for us, if that works for you, my friend. >> of course. of course. i want to add to our conversation rnc chairman and msnbc political analyst michael steele. ari, of course, is correct, about where we are, a police officers on trial, with the blue wall crumbling, officials
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testifying forcefully against him. and but, how far are we, if while derek chauvin was on trial more black men were killed at the hands of police? >> it tells you that while we have the opportunity to witness what we did on video, that even in that circumstance, it may not net be enough because in the past justice has taken a peek and seen a man or woman in a blue uniform and the skate suddenly has a different weight to it so this is a crucible moment i think in many respects, nicolle, for not just george floyd in the adjudication of his case, but what it says about cases going forward.
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the fact that you did have police officers confirming that the process, the policy and the accesses of officers chauvin were not a lie, that he was not going to be afforded the protection that that blue wall, that blue shield has provided in the past was a significant breaking point, i think. we'll see how the jury weighs that breaking point. the next test is how do we weigh it as we go forward to try to piece together policies that accurately and i think respectfully reflects the desire of african-americans in this country to be able to have the police protect and serve and not have to look over their shoulders that this may wind up in a very, you know, bad situation. there's a lot riding here.
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you can't lose sight of the fact what this decision may mean going forward. >> i need you to say more, michael steele, i will threw more of today's news in it. very different president than we had when george floyd was killed the president today, president biden describing the evidence as overwhelming. he plans to address the nation as soon as a vertebra is known. we will take that live, of course. what is the impact of being a president of a country who understands what is broken, and is committed to fixing it. >> my goodness, nicolle, i cannot emphasize enough the important of that leadership. imagine if the old leadership was still in place.
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given what we saw on the heels of george floyd's murder, the response to the grieving and concern and angst across america was one to, you know, clear lafayette park, to use politics to define -- to enforce a law and order mindset, as opposed to appreciating the pain and frustration. joe biden has come to the table with a different narrative. he's come to the country with a different set of conversation or points that he wants to make in conversation i think that's important for him to acknowledge the consequences of this officer's actions, the consequences of the verdict as a result of those actions and give us some sense of how we need to
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respond going forward, and that he intends to be a leader in this space. not just for this case, but for future cases down the road. i think kelly anne conway at the white house said that they were -- when there was violence, it benefited them politically. they whom willed -- they saw the benefits to their case politically when there was unrest. they are hoping the president's words have an effect of trying to calm the nation, reminding people of what his agenda is.
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the rev and so many are involved in the doj priorities, the systematic racism. just give me one more beat on how that might be different tonight. >> i think it may be different. i think what is important is how the president helps us as a nation set the tone. i think it's the importance, the institutions, the justice department, police forces, you know, law enforcement around the country also helps is set that tone, you know. the fact here is the centerpiece. it's not our own personal kind of angst and excite or frustration at the moment. it's the family is the centerpiece here. we are here for the floyd family as a nation to stand with them,
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and to recognize what it means for the family let's not make it about us, folks. let's not get carried away and show us hue excited we are about a conviction or disappointed were about an acquittal, or anything in between. let's keep the family in focus here. this, despite whatever the outcome, it will be a weight lifted for this family. we have to be a part of that moment for them. i think that's something for the president -- around the country want to bring into this moment as well. this is a point where i get to welcome in brian williams to our ongoing live coverage. we expect to hear a verdict in the murder trial of derek chauvin sometime within the 4:00 hour here. hello, my friend.
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>> indeed. good to see you, my friend. here we are, the atmosphere is fraught and nerves are taut, and as so many of your guests have said for so many days, this has been watched around the globe. this is the case that is the convergence of media. it's the convergence of the fact that we all carry cameras now. it is the convergence of the fact that it was as gruesome as you can imagine to watch life drain from a human being over 9 minutes, 29 seconds. so as shaquille brewster and others have reported, nicolle, you know this, this is especially in big cases, this is kind of s.o.p., at least an hour's notice to get everyone back. claire was talking about this, where people are scattered, sometimes at a law office a few blocks away. they could be in the calf tier
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use, could be in an ante room. in this case they will use the hour-plus run-up to batten down, to alert law enforcement, making sure that extra layer moving cautiously, slowly, deliberately, is in place. let's bring joyce vance back into the conversation. joyce, in the course of this trial, was the question ever put to the jury in the following manner -- but for the involvement of derek chauvin, but for the fact that he happened to be ranking officer in the responding first due police car, george floyd would be alive today? >> this is such an important thing to understand. the way the judge described it
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is consistent with minnesota law, that required chauvin's actions to have causality, but not to be the only factor. there was a lot of technical argument. i bet it was somewhat confusing to the jury. the defense came on and they had a litany of other factors. they told the jury in order to convict you have to find that it wasn't drugs, it wasn't hypertension. they went through that list, as you may remember, during their closing argument. the prosecution did something very smart in their rebuttal. they came and told the jury, that's not the law. you can read the law for yourself. you will have the law. what we have to prove is what we did prove here, which is that derek chauvin was a substantial cause of george floyd's death. that's how the prosecution properly posed that question to the jury.
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>> we keep hearing the question why not murder one in a case like this? why not murder one in the case of daunte wright? can you, once and for all, explain the distinction? >> we have a federal system, and 50 states, so everything is different. in minnesota first-degree murder is premedicated. the government has to proved both that it was intentional and premeditated. prosecutors made a decision that they did not have the evidence for that. >> joyce -- go ahead. >> i was going to say they
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reinstated this third-degree murder charge, which says the defendant was reckless and wanton with regard to the possibility of taking human life. that seems like a charge that's very much merited on this evidence. >> i was just going to say, and nicolle, i'll to say it back to you after this question. so premeditation would mean that former officer chauvin woke up that morning fixing to murder someone, that former officer chaufb, as late as driving up on the scene said, oh, it's this guy, i wish he was dead, that kind of thing is premeditation going into an encounter with a man who ends up dead? >> i wish i could tell you that it's that clear, brian, but it's not. you're given camps of lying in wait, murder by poison, things that take planning, but premeditation means that the
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defendant planned the murder before it took place. some states like alabama are very lien yet. you can premedicate a killing in just minutes. in other justices, it takes longer. it's not quite like alabama, but it doesn't require weeks in advance, but it is very difficult. the prosecution would have had to argue that at some point derek chauvin crossed over and made the decision to kill george floyd. although we might think that looking at the videotape, it proving it beyond a reasonable doubt would have been a heavy lift. brian, i want to bring back into our conversation or colleague shaq brewster, who is outside the courthouse. since we came on the air, shaq,
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i wonder if anything has changed. >> reporter: still that guidance we got that it will be in between 3:30 and 4:00 central time, we don't -- from what we know from other trials, we'll expect the jury foreperson who give the judge that verdict -- or really give the deputy that vertebra sheet marking off what is guilty, what is not guilty, and then we'll heard that read in the courtroom. as we mentioned, over the course of our coverage, the past day, this is a jury that's been sequestered. they have not had their phones, if we go based on what sequestration has looked like in this county for other trials, they have not had access to the news. i was talking to a gyre on another trial, the nour case that happened about three years
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ago. that juror was telling me that he did not have access to his phone. he had 15 minutes at night to call his family and that was about it. they took the televisions -- took the cable out and they were only able to watch netflix. that was the app they had. they've had very limited exposure. people have been watching and waiting for what was going on in that courtroom and in that deliberation room. so we don't have any updated guidance. i keep looking at my phone to see if there's an updated e-mail or notification from the court. there has been nothing except that there has been a vertebra that is reached and it would be read sometime in the next few minutes. >> cedric alexander is back in our conversation, nicolle, among our law enforcement analysts.
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cedric, let's talk about preparations. famously, the testimony on the hill after 1/6 was the commander of the d.c. national guard, sensing they would be called up on 1/6, had his men and women muster and get their kit on, geared up, and board their vehicles inside the armory. he didn't want it going on in plain sight. he didn't want any picture on social media that might have inflamed the situation. i assume, cedric, in your line of work that gearing up for this kind of thing beyond the barriers and the vehicles we've already seen in the twin cities is being done quietly, if at all possible. >> that is absolutely correct, brian. what's going on behind the scenes operationally, they are preparing for a reading of this verdict, whatever the response may be.
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what every there in minneapolis, several thousand personnel all across that city, all across that state who are standing by, and who are ready to engage, depending on what the incidents may happen to be. here again, i think it's important to understand what it is that they're preparing for. they're preparing for it to go either way. whatever that means, anything that's in between, but for those police officers, those national guard that are there, they're all hoping for the best. we certainly, regardless of what the read may be on this verdict, we certainly encourage people to remain calm and peaceful. there is no excuse other than to remain calm and peaceful. if you want to protest, certainly protest peacefully, get your voices heard, but for police and national guard that are there, they're away from the scene, the whole idea is not to provoke anything with anyone, but be able to respond
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accordingly, depending on what that call may happen to be. i'm quite sure they're being very methodical he very strategic, keeping their men and women very calm, and hopefully as we go through the evening, regardless of what the verdict may be, brian, what we're going to see is maybe people who will industrial protest, regardless, but we certainly want to encourage peaceful protesting, because anything else really just takes away from whatever narrative they may try. >> cedric, i haven't had a chance to talk with you in some time, and about this case, about the daunte wright case, there's been a lot of speculation that if reviews of police departments and policing in our country work well, one of the aspects that would be reformed is recruitment. i'm going to use approximate numbers. in brooklyn center, minnesota, a
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force of roughly 47 police officers, there are four officers of color. like the military these days, recruitment tends to come from one narrow band of society. we have policing families. we have firefighting families in this country. we have military families, obviously with differences on the margins. but is that one of your hopes and expectations? >> well, one thing we do have here, we have an emergen group of young people who are finding other professions than law enforcement. that is a continued challenge. so that is an ongoing challenge, but here with the whole recruitment process, we certainly want to make sure in our recruitment we're finding men and women who just don't
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meet basic qualifications, but what they have is a compassion for human life. they truly want to go into communities seeing it as a place where they can be a guardian, not a warrior, even though they are prepared for whatever it is they may have to confront. so we're looking at an emerging young group of people who have a great deal of other possibilities and professions they choose to go into. sometimes you will hear people say many men and women don't want to go in today because of the way police officers are being treated. that is not necessarily true. that is just an anecdotal observation. another observation, they also don't want to go into policing because of the things that they see policing are doing to people in their communities. so that, too, becomes an issue. we have to make sure we recruit the very best that are out there, but those who have a moral compass about themselves
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and truly want to serve. once you recruit them, we've got to look at our training profile, have to go back and look at how we're training, how we're delivering those messages, what the expectations are. in addition to that, we have to make sure we're supervising, that they're coming into a healthy police environment in which they'd be supervised, held accountable, and it would be a transparent process for people who live in those communities who know and get to know, and communities having a responsibility to police officers as well in their partnership. so we're moving into a new age. regardless of what outcome this particular verdict may happen top, one thing for certain is we all have to keep our foot on the gas, not look for reform and reimagining police, which to me are words that are becoming dated, but we have to define public safety in a very different way from what we have
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in the past, and what does that mean and what is it that we want police officers to do going forward? and today can be the beginning of that. >> i'll do you one better. i'll say that the george floyd case has made activists out of average citizens who never imagined that they would be marching on the streets during the summer in a pandemic, but they did. and to comment bien everything you just said, i hope some small percentage of the mostly young people who have flooded the streets of our country for good reason, feeling propelled and compelled to become activists, i hope it occurs to some of them that perhaps a way to change policing is to get involved, change it from the inside and enact the changes to the policies that they're protesting. that would be a great influx of a population into the policing community. cedric alexander, thank you.
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i know you're going to remain of counsel to us and standing by as we approach the verdict. nicolle, over to you. brian, i want to bring in a friends, jason johnson, professor at morgan state university, contributor to "the grio" and misn nbc. we've had conversations over the years about everything political and some of our most intense conversations about precisely what we're awaiting a verdict for. talk about everything going through your mind right now. >> so, again, nicolle, i mention this, i teach on tuesday. so the world that this ruling was coming down literally happened during class. i had 23 students. i asked them how many of you actually think derek chauvinly found guilty. only four out of 23 thought so.
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when i asked them in detail, they said because we don't believe. white cops and black cops, asian cops always get out of when they kill black people. they don't believe this is the system working. so regardless of what happens tonight, if derek chauvin is found guilty, it's not going to change the fear and the legitimate cynicism and skepticism that my students have. it's not going to change my fundamental belief that policing needs to be abolished the way it works now, because to me, no matter what this individual ruling is, we are part of a systematic problem in this country. the fact there's been so many other deaths, the fact that three days ago we had a guy from the oath keepers who talked about how they completely infiltrated law enforcement and training for some ridiculous boogaloo race war is coming --
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>> we also covered the presidential contest between now president biden and disgraced ex-president president trump, that this moment for the country might be different if he had prevailed. i wonder what you make of president biden's comments this morning that the evidence in this trial is overwhelming. >> yeah, nicolle, generally i don't like it when presidents speak on court cases. i just -- it doesn't make my comfortable. they should allow the process to go, but i think we're in a different time. i think donald trump pretty much broke that. they talked about everything he wanted to, whether appropriate or not. it demonstrates that joe biden has eyes, he pays attention, he can see and has a certain dry of empathy. i am pleased that leadership is willing to make a comment about
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this, regardless of the final ruling. it's not alternative history. i would be horrified to hear this ruling if we still have a president trump. i would be terrified as to what kind of violence he would incurring, regardless of what the ruling would be. the fact that we have a president who seems to care, a president who recognizes how much of america is invested in whatever this ruling finally is, is a good shine for leadership going forward. if he takes it as an opportunity to propose fundamental changes, that would be more important, but the fact he won't throw gasoline on this is a good thing and a welcome change from what we had before. >> it might have a tangible difference in the scenes we are seeing on our screen. this is a growing crowd in the bottom corner of your screen outside the courthouse. jaysen i'm so struck by the reaction of your students.
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they are now diverse in ethnicity, gender and age, but if the future generations feel the way you described, certainly it would hopefully in peaceful formats maybe inspire them to be out there tonight. what do you say to those exercise their rights? >> i'm always happy to see it. i took money out of my pocket and got some of my students out of jail who were protesting, so more objective, i want to see a different response from police for protests. it still concerns me and at some levels disgusts me you see most resistance to cops from people protesting than we saw at the insurrection. you sea more tear gas, mo battens, more equipment for cops
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respond -- so while the protests are important, and there would be no change if we didn't have that pressure, it's yet another reminder of how the policing responsible response to the protest shows this country has a lot of work to do because people shouldn't have to do this because these kinds of crimes shouldn't be happening. >> jason, you hit on it, that last point exactly right. jason johnson is going to be with us as we approach this verdict and over to joyce vance, veteran former federal prosecutor for a question about procedure here. joyce, we're looking at the now familiar great seal of the state of minnesota. that is where the camera is trained while people are expected to enter and move about the courtroom. only when the judge says we're under way can we pull back off of that and show what's happening, but correct me if i'm wrong. this will be the first we learn
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who the foreperson is of the jury. you point out correctly that 50 states have 50 different ways of doing things, but most of the cases i have covered in various states, this procedure begins with the judge very formally asking the foreperson of the jury, have you reached a verdict. and i guess that -- this will be especially interesting for the pool reporters who have covered the trial and have watched those jurors so carefully. this will be the first time we've known who they chose as their foreperson, correct? >> i'm not sure that we'll actually find out here, brian. i think we'll have to watch what procedure the judge decides on. some of the issues here have involved jury security in the run-up to announcing this verdict. typically, judges are somewhat protective of the anonymity of jurors in high-profile cases and the judge indicated that he wouldn't set a time certain for making their identities known.
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so, i'm not positive we'll know here particularly as there's some suggestion that they may use a procedure that involves the jury being on zoom at this point in the proceedings. i think we're going to have to wait and see how this plays out with this nexus between covid and the need for security. >> all right. joyce vance, thank you. shaquille brewster is in the growing and peaceful crowd outside the courtroom. shaq, what's it like out there? >> reporter: that's right. you said a growing and peaceful crowd, and that's what we're seeing right now. it seems like several hundreds of people are out here. off in the distance, and i believe you have that camera shot, you have the group of people who are -- had the bullhorn, who are talking, who are rallying, the common chants that you hear for any protest like this. but you look around and you get a sense of the crowd that has grown fairly quickly. you see people on bikes. you see a vendor down the hill there that came out fairly quickly. it just gives you an idea, this is something that people were
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ready for. people were watching and waiting. they knew this verdict was happening, and especially when we got to the closing arguments yesterday. this is something that they said they're focused on, that they have been passionate about. this is something that we saw protests back after george floyd was originally killed, something that they were focused on, that there was a big -- there were groups, specific groups that came out and responses that were formed so you get a sense that people are focused oncoming down here and making their voices heard. i want you to see the hennepin county government center. you see the double layer of fencing before you even get to the courtroom and then up there on the ledge, you see members of, i believe, i can't see, you might have a better vantage point, i believe that's the members of the national guard up there. but you see that law enforcement presence. that's something you see all around the downtown area. you hear the crowd chanting right now. i think their message is very clear. they're saying over and over, guilty, guilty. that's what they want to hear
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when court resumes in a matter of minutes. >> and shaq, since, as we've pointed out, part of the reason for this hour-plus advance announcement that there is a verdict is to give folks time to gather and give folks time to defend whatever they need to defend. have you seen any obvious change in stance, any movement among either the minneapolis pd or the national guard? >> reporter: i'll tell you, down here by the courthouse, no, you haven't seen anything noticeable, but it would be hard to find something noticeable when you already have that high fencing, double layer barbed wire that's been that way for the past -- for more than a month. many of the businesses down here have already had, for weeks, the boarded up windows and boarded up entrances that are just ready to close at a moment's notice. you can't -- it's hard to show you over there, so i'm not going to do it, but over to my right
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is the media center. it's where you saw reporters going in to watch the trial. it was where the initial feed was going from, and even that building is fully boarded up with those white panels. it's -- i'm struggling to say this, but it's harder to see how it could be escalated any more than what we've seen here for the past month or so, brian. so, downtown, no, you haven't seen that, but i'll tell you, across the city of minneapolis, since the shooting of daunte wright, that's when you saw the escalation, what they call phase 3 of this operation safety net. the multiagency effort between local law enforcement, state law enforcement, after his shooting, and after his killing, that's when you saw things really escalate and you heard the police chief even say, he was always ready to move to that phase 3, which was the very visible presence of law enforcement. they just moved it up a week early. so, you haven't been able to see any immediate escalation, but there wasn't much more escalation you can do after what we saw from last week. >> thank you for that, shaq. and i get it.
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it would be hard to further fortify what is already a fortress and has been for some time. shaq brewster, obviously, if you need us, flag us down, we'll get back to you. and obviously, we're counting on you for coverage post-verdict. nicole, over to you. >> brian, i want to bring into our conversation, paul butler, former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor and author of the book, "chokehold." since we're about to hear this verdict, if you could just remind us of these charges and what they all would mean for derek chauvin. >> sure, nicole. derek chauvin stands charged with three crimes, second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter. the second-degree murder is felony murder, meaning the prosecution has to prove that
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derek chauvin intended to assault mr. floyd, not that he intended to kill him, simply that he intended to use unlawful force to assault, and a death happened as a result. if the jury finds that beyond a reasonable doubt, then derek chauvin goes down for murder 2. murder 3 is recklessness, basically. if derek chauvin appreciated that there was a significant chance that what he did would cause mr. floyd's death, then he's guilty of third-degree murder, and the manslaughter charge is if an -- if a reasonable person would have known that what chauvin was doing would risk someone's life, then chauvin is guilty of manslaughter 2. the jury can convict of all three, nicole. >> and i wonder, paul butler, if you -- i'm not asking you to read the tea leaves, but what traditionally does it mean when
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a jury comes back after 11 hours of deliberation? >> so, that's a great question, nicole, with two great words, tea leaves. so, the conventional wisdom among lawyers is that a short deliberation is good for the defense. in this case, i think the calculus may be a little different because the evidence that the prosecution presented was overwhelming, and one would think that if the jury were going to acquit, even on one charge, that it would require much more conversation than this 11 hours, but it's totally reading the tea leaves and we'll know for sure in a few minutes. >> paul butler, obviously part of our team awaiting to analyze this verdict when it comes down, when we have it. ali velshi, who has covered so many of the aftereffects of the
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death of george floyd, so many late, hot summer nights, ali was on the air with us from city streets around this country. he is outside the hennepin county courthouse. ali, how are you? >> reporter: good, brian. let me give you a sense of it. you saw a little bit of this with shaq, we're not too far from each other but we've got a lot of media around here and a crowd of several hundred and constantly streaming in. coming in as shaq said, there's a vendor there. there are all sorts of people. everybody's got their phones out. there are different ways in which people are processing this and i just met this gentleman here. sean garrison, who has started painting this. this caught my eye a few minutes ago. he's standing on here and i didn't really understand what this was, and i said to sean, what is this? he said, it's what is happening here. and whatever feeling is happening here, he's going to capture here, and it's 300 different people are feeling
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something different, they might see something different. i don't mean to interrupt you. i'm here on msnbc, and i sort of want to give my viewers across the country some sense of what do you feel? what's going through your mind right now? you came out and you started painting. >> what do i feel? i just said this earlier. i'm a little numb. right? we've been down this road before. and we've always been let down, 99.99% of the time, we're let down. so, i'm not -- i'm angry that we're still having these conversations. and shouldn't be. you know, 400 years later. five years later. but we're here. so, how do i feel? am i angry? yeah, i'm angry. but i can't let that burn this energy i have right now. that's just staying in tune with the people to see what -- to see -- to get a gauge on how people are feeling so i can translate that here. and again, this can turn to
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heaven or hell, depending on what we hear. >> reporter: any sense right now of how you think it's going to turn? >> i'm a black man in america, brother. i've seen all the cases. do i think he's going to get convicted? no. >> reporter: you do not? >> no. i just have yet to find the type of peace in my heart to know there's 12 people, all 12, to say that this person should go to prison for murdering this black man. badge or not. i haven't seen that yet. >> reporter: what you're feeling right now, there's no conviction here, is that going to change how you're feeling right now? >> oh, yeah, i'll be angry, but you know, it will be one of those, here we go again, you know? and how do we comport ourselves going forward to figure out how to assuage this flame, right? but we know what's going to happen if it's that verdict,
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even if it's on the lesser charges of the three, it's going to be an issue and there should be an issue. we can't -- i can't -- i'm not going to judge how people exhibit their pain. i know a lot of folks get upset with what happens when riots and protests go on, but not enough people out here defending the people so we don't have these incidents. i said earlier, you know, i've seen a lot of national guard down here protecting these buildings. if they protected the people, you and i wouldn't be having this conversation. but that's not what happens. we know the history. and we read a little bit, we know the history. and so, we just -- you know, we just go with the energy. i mean, i hope that this thing works out the way it should. i mean, you know, we all saw it. we saw -- we looked into the eyes of, you know, the killer, which is never happened ever in the history of these with black men. it's never happened and i challenge people to let me know if that is the case.
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so, people -- i think people took that with them, which is why we had this ground swell of support for the black community over the past year-plus, but again, here we are, and there's a lot of people who are saying, oh, this is wrong, but this square should be packed with millions of people. but some folks, you know, they're too nervous to exhibit their humanity. but hey, here we are, man. >> i think it's interesting, sean, what you said here and brian, what sean told me about this, because i'm not so good about -- or smart about abstract art, and he said this could be heaven or hell depending on what happens in the outcome when we hear this verdict. sean, thank you. i appreciate your time. so, that's just a little bit of the mood. there's people with signs. somebody just came by to me and said, i'm praying. i'm praying. you know, for this to be okay, to go okay. but as you can see, this crowd continues to grow. it's peaceful. there are -- they're chanting various things. shaq, i think, showed you there are some law enforcement up there, some state police and
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some national guard. they're all around this place. there has been some activity with the fences. the fences that have remained closed most of the time. they were up a little while ago and i saw more police and military vehicles going into this government center. so that's the situation right now. lots of workers in downtown, brian, have left. there was what can only be described as an exodus in the last hour. remember, we're an hour earlier so it wasn't the end of the workday. cars were just streaming out of garages and heading towards the interstates or the suburbs. people are leaving downtown minneapolis, but a steady crowd is streaming into this courthouse plaza to await the verdict with us all, brian. >> ali velshi, thank you. thank you for finding sean as well. sometimes the most acute analysis comes from the thoughtful people on the edge of the crowd looking over it all. ali velshi mentioned what he called the exodus leaving the twin cities. we're back in court. let's take the judge.
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>> all rise for the jury. >> please be seated. members of the jury, i understand you have a verdict.
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members of the jury, i will now read the verdicts as they will appear in the permanent records of the fourth judicial district. state of minnesota, county of hennepin, district court, fourth judicial district, state of minnesota plaintiff versus derek michael chauvin, defendant. verdict count one, court filing number 27-cr-2012646. we, the jury, in the above entitled manner as to count one, unintentional second-degree murder while committing a felony find the defendant guilty. this verdict agreed to this 20th day of april, 2021, at 1:44 p.m., signed juror foreperson, juror number 19. same caption, verdict count two, we the jury in the above entitled matter as to count two, third-degree murder perpetrating an imminently dangerous act find the defendant guilty. this verdict agreed to this 20th
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day of april, 2021, at 1:45 p.m. signed by jury foreperson, juror number 19. same caption, verdict count three, we the jury in the above entitled manner as to count three, second degree manslaughter, culpable negligence, creating an unnecessary risk find the defendant guilty. this verdict agreed to the 20th of april, 2021. members of the jury, i'm now going to ask you individually if these are your true and correct verdicts. please respond yes or no. juror number two, are these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number nine, are these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 26, with these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 44, are these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 52, are these your trorgt verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number 55, are these
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your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 85, are these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 89, are these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 91, are these your true and correct verdicts. >> yes. >> juror number 92, are these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> are these your verdicts, so say you one, so say you all? >> yes. >> members of the jury, i find that the verdicts as read reflect the will of the jury and will be filed accordingly. i have to thank you on behalf of the people of the state of minnesota for not only jury service but heavy duty jury service, what i'm going to ask you to do now is follow the deputy back into your usual room and i will join you in a few minutes to answer questions and to advise you further. so, all rise for the jury.
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>> be seated. with the guilty verdicts returned, we're going to have blakely. you may file a written argument as to blakely factors within one week. the court will issue findings on the blakely factors, the factual findings, one week after that. we'll order a psi immediately, returnable in four weeks. and we will also have a briefing on after you get the psi, six weeks from now, and then eight weeks from now we will have sentencing. we'll get you the exact dates in a scheduling order. is there a motion on behalf of the state? >> your honor, the state would move to have the court revoke the defendant's bail and remand him into custody pending
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sentencing. >> bail is revoked, bond is discharged and the defendant is remanded to the custody of the hennepin county sheriff. anything further? thank you. >> we're adjourned. >> counsel. >> nicole wallace, with the whole world watching, the whole world just got to see that. derek chauvin led away in handcuffs. depending on the disposition of sentencing, derek chauvin may not see the light of day again. if you were watching, you heard, there's the graphic, guilty on all charges. manslaughter 2, the lesser charge, guilty. murder 3, guilty. murder 2, felony murder, guilty.
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9 minutes and 29 seconds. prosecution told the jurors, believe your own eyes. nicole, in this case, they have. >> i'm so struck, and i need to bring him in right away, but how little faith so many of our friends had that this would be the result and i'm thinking of you and i'm coming right to you, jason johnson. >> hello? >> jason, can you hear us? >> hey, jason. >> yes. yeah. >> can you hear us? >> yeah. yes. now i can hear you. well, i'll say this, nicole, like i said, i actually always thought that he would be found guilty because it's sort of a cultural make-up call, but i'm not happy. i'm not pleased. i don't have any sense of satisfaction. i don't think this is the system working. i don't think this is a good thing. what this says to me is that in order to get a nominal degree of
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justice in this country, that a black man has to be murdered on air, viewed by the entire world, there has to be a year's worth of protests and a phalanx of other white police officers to tell one officer that he was wrong in order to get one scintilla of justice. that doesn't make me feel happy or satisfied. it makes me worry about what's going to happen when these other officers are held on trial. it makes me upset all the more that we didn't have this for breonna taylor. it makes me concerned about what's going to happen in a trial for ahmaud arbery, so no, this is not the system working. this is a make-up call. this is the justice system trying to say, hey, this is one bad apple, because that's how this is going to be interpreted. it's going to be this one bad apple, he got in trouble, yay, blah, blah, blah, and yet there's still going to be young black men and women across this country being shot today, tomorrow, and two weeks from now because unless we have some radical reform, there's no lesson learned. >> and michael steele, i'm also
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thinking of ali velshi's friend, sean, there, who said, it's either going to be heaven or it's going to be hell. your thoughts to what just transpired in the courthouse? >> you know, i have to tell you when i heard the announcement of the first -- on the first verdict, i fist pumped. i just had an enormous sense of relief that not the system worked but that this happened and it happened at a time that it needed to happen. i understand what my good buddy, jason johnson is saying but i'm not prepared to just strip it down that bare right now. i think for the family, going back to what i said before, i think for the family, because that's at the end of the day, what this is about. it's not what jason or i or anyone on this set thinks about this moment. it's what this family feels and the sense of relief that they have, the vision that we -- the
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issue -- excuse me, the scene we have right now with people -- with black people hugging and understanding what this moment means historically but also for this family. so, i think that we'll have time, and there will be pressure to bear on all the things that jason just talked about. i think that's why i said this was a crucible moment. it's hot. we are forging a new instrument here of criminal justice, and a new instrument on how we move forward as a country on these issues. and black people are at the tip of that spear now, and we're seeing -- we're not having another george floyd. watch what happened in the year between george floyd and just this last week, the black men and the young children who have been killed, so i think that this -- this crucible moment for us is one in which, from the heat of this, we emerge stronger. we need to. we have to. because jason's absolutely
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right. this moment can't just be another, okay, well, let's hold our breath and figure out what happens in the next case. we have to take from this how we want the justice system to work for us. and i think that's what this jury is saying is, yeah, we got it. we need this system to work for black men and for black people if it's going to work at all. >> michael steele, we have turned up the volume on some of these scenes on the streets of minneapolis. we're also joined by phone by our friend and colleague, joy reid. joy, i don't know if you've heard some of the conversation and reaction so far to derek chauvin being found guilty on all three charges. >> i have. i heard, you know, both jason and michael, our friends, and listen, my first thoughts as i heard that verdict being read, nicole, really were for george floyd's family.
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you and i both interviewed members of his family, his brother, his daughter, who famously yelled out, my daddy changed the world. and i think that what just happened today, you know, i take jason's caveats to heart, but even if it took ten police officers to bring about a verdict that will bring justice and a sense of peace to this family, i'm good with that. because the reality is, the verdict today was not just against this police officer. it was against the kind of -- that was mounted for him. it's the same kind of defense that was mounted in the rodney king case, the black superman who, no matter how much violence you commit against his body, can raise up, even from the dead in the case of george floyd, and pose a threat. the thought of a black man as an
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inherent threat, a black body as an inherent threat, that's what derek chauvin's defense tried to use in his defense. the idea that george floyd's own life issues were to blame for his death, the fact that he became addicted, like so many americans who are struggling with addiction, that that's the cause of his death. that even a car -- we weren't even sure was a gasoline-powered car being too close to it and trying to hold on to it. that was what was to blame for his death. everything but the police's actions was blamed and we've seen that defense work from rodney king, you know, in the '90s, early 1990s all the way up to today. we've seen every excuse for the killing of black bodies, and the excuse always includes blaming the dead. the fact that that didn't work this time, even if it took all of these other police officers,
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who, by the way, it's important that they testified, nicole, because this was police drawing a line, right? this was law enforcement. >> that was a point the rev made. joy, let me just ask you to stay -- joy, let me ask you to please stay with us. i'm sorry to do this but i want to bring the rev into the conversation. he's with george's brother, rodney. rev, rodney, can you tell us what your thoughts are now? joy reid, brian williams and i are all here. >> we're here in the family room and we're going to have a press conference soon, but just broke down in tears because we know all the work, breonna taylor's voices, and we're going to talk later, but rodney floyd and his brother is here, this is a monumental win but it's only a round. the war is not over. we've got still got two days. we've got eric garner, who never got this.
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we've got breonna taylor who never got this. but god brought us through and the first thing we're going to do is the press conference and have a prayer and thank god. rodney, tell them how you feel. i know you were crying like i was crying. >> i mean, i'm feeling tears of joy, so emotional that no family in history ever got this far. you know, to get a guilty charge on all accounts, we got a chance to go to trial and he took it all away. so this right here is for everyone that's been in this situation, everybody. everybody. we are here. we stand in a unit. thank you to reverend al sharpton for being with us from the very first day until the last. i know we're not done yet. i love it. >> god bless you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> rodney, what do you -- >> we'll be talking at the press conference. >> okay. rev, you come back at any time. >> all right. thank you. >> rodney, thank you for spending some time with us. thank you. there we go, brian, the rev and george floyd's brother, rodney,
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there, getting ready for a press conference but kind enough to make some time for us. >> indeed. and on our way to shaquille brewster, who has been out in that crowd, i noted some networks cut to pictures of the crowd, which everyone's phone now being instantaneously linked, there were celebrations, spontaneously, starting with the first of the three guilty counts. and shaq, to joy reid's important point, a series of important points, part of the relief in the crowd is what they were forced, what they endured, what they were forced to watch during the course of this trial. turns out it wasn't an exhaust pipe. turns out it wasn't heart disease. turns out it wasn't fenlt. fentanyl. it looks like the cause of death in the eyes of these jurors were
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derek chauvin. >> reporter: it was murder, according to the jury, and that's something that you heard the people here celebrate almost instantaneously. you see over my shoulder, there was a rally that was -- that seemed to just wrap up. you saw someone come up with a bullhorn and start chanting and i don't know if you saw these pictures as the verdict was being read but you saw the crowd go up to the top of this hill. they had a bullhorn and people were looking at the trial on their phone and it was a hush that came over the crowd for just a little bit of time, and you heard someone yell out, guilty. and then you heard cheers. they said it again. guilty. another round of cheers. people grabbing their phones, people waving them around, chanting all three counts, and if you can come over for a quick second, i saw her earlier when we first arrived. show your sign for us really quickly. this is a point i think joy was making in that it's not just about george floyd for people who are out here. it's also about adam toledo. it's also about daunte wright who ten minutes from here was shot by police.
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why are you here today? what were you thinking when you heard the verdict being read? >> i was relieved because if we did not get the outcome we did, it would have spiralled out into, like, fighting every day, showing up here, every day, until they hear us, because all three of them need justice. and that's what george got and we're going to continue to fight for daunte wright as well as adam. >> you were expressing to me that you were concerned before the verdict was being read, before you heard that it was a guilty verdict. you had a real concern here. what's the feeling? what's the word to describe your emotions right now? >> i was honestly scared, to be honest. i was really scared that it wasn't going to turn out the way it was going to turn out because i knew that if it wasn't, the people would fight back. we are the voice now. this is revolutionary. this is history. and this is going to be from now on, there's not going to be a world where the cops don't get arrested because this matters. they matter. their life matters.
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everybody that got killed by the police deserved justice. >> reporter: reyna, thank you very much. i'll let you get back to your family. i also wanted to talk right here. what are you thinking now, when you heard the crowd say guilty, what went through your head? >> i had such relief as a victim of police brutality at the hands of minneapolis police department in much a similar manner during a wellness check. this was such a moment of vindication, of the community getting what it needs and as an indigenous person i know i'm not the greatest affected so i appreciate everything black women have done to organize and help people show up for this because it is really, truly so important. >> so many people told me about the trauma in the initial video and having to watch that over again. the anxiety of watching the trial and waiting for the verdict. what's the word that you're feeling now? what word would describe your emotions. >> i can breathe. i can breathe. i have spent ten years waiting for some sort of relief from my
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own trauma and i feel i got a little bit of healing today. >> reporter: where do you think minneapolis goes from here? you saw the barriers and the barbed wire. many people said that was provocative. the reason why they didn't expect a guilty verdict was because of what you see behind in the background of this shot here. where do you think minneapolis goes from here? >> i think it's really demonstrative of how afraid the white majority is of people of color in this city and how different -- how different our styles are and how afraid they are of the confrontational nature of just bringing this to light, even. it's something they're very scared of. >> reporter: you can breathe now. thank you so much for your time. really appreciate that. and if i can make one big point here, it's that it's not just black folks or white folks. you have a range of people, all different ages. if i can bring in one more gentleman here. you were here when the verdict was read. >> yes. >> reporter: what are you thinking now? >> well, i'm relieved. i mean, i'm here, really, just to support black and brown people. i have a lot of learning to do
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myself, and so for myself personally, this has been a wake-up call for the privilege i've had, and i haven't even realized it. and the difficulty for all black and brown people. so i'm thrilled that justice was served. >> reporter: you said you now realize your privilege, that this -- the death of george floyd helped you realize that. what are you going to do with that realization? where do you take that? >> i want to find out. i don't know. i just googled it today. >> reporter: what did you google? >> what can a white person do to help out black lives matter? >> reporter: what made you do that? what was in your heart that made you do that? >> just an open -- an awareness to see that, you know, institutionally and systematically, i've got benefits that other people don't have. >> reporter: thank you very much. thank you for coming over. i really appreciate your time.
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and i think, you know, that really captures the variety of opinions. i'll tell you on this side, you have people starting to go forward. you see a big media presence and i think that's something that we have to underscore, the fact that so many people have come here, not just american reporters, people from really all over. you see people -- i'm being separated a little bit but you hear the celebration. >> sorry, man. >> reporter: you're all right. you're all right. you're seeing, now, people have taken the streets. it's a celebration, and i told you, it went very quickly from anxiety. it went very quickly from anxiety, from nervous tension to excitement. people had their phones out. people said that they were celebrating what they wanted -- they got what they wanted and that was a guilty verdict of what the jury considered the murder of george floyd. >> shaquille brewster, i'm so happy given the alternative that what you have to cover is a beautiful spring day in the twin cities this afternoon as an exuberant crowd but certainly a
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growing and peaceful crowd, nicole, back over to you. >> yeah, i mean, joy, i want to pick back up with you and i want to apologize for cutting you off before. we had the rev in a very small window there with george floyd's brother, rodney. i mean, look, the -- shaq brewster is one of the all-stars of our network and the profound nature of what he just sort of reported can't be -- we can't breeze past it. the woman saying, you know, i can breathe. and then a white, you know, resident admitting that, you know, i don't know how i can help but i googled it. just talk about the strength of the diversity of this movement in this moment. >> it's so important, nicole, because i mean, i just, as i was listening to shaq, who has been brilliant, 100% agree with that, and just thinking off the top of my head how many of these cases i could think of, patrick, eric
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garner, adam toledo, daunte wright, who was also mentioned by one of the young women there. you can go all the way through these cases. i covered the walter scott case. it seemed like that was an obvious guilty. the jury hung. and you think about the exhaustion that black folks feel watching people die in some cases on camera or hearing these stories of people who were killed for nothing, for pittances or little kids like adam toledo, and you do feel like you can't breathe. you feel like you can't get it together, even, you know, on a journalistic sense, the trauma for me is horrible but i can only imagine what it is for the families. i can't really imagine. i can't get into their shoes of just how painful it is to lose a loved one for nothing. and i think that what we've seen, the difference between when i started covering black lives matter with trayvon martin, which became completely political. as soon as barack obama, president obama said, if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon martin, when he got off, my kids
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asked me, why can people just kill us? the question of, do our lives matter was something i had to deal with at home. but the difference between black lives matter then and black lives matter now is that there are white people in black lives matter, right? heather heyer was in black lives matter and was killed for being a part of black lives matter, a young white woman in charlottesville, virginia. and so, we're starting to see the integrated movement of people of all races saying, enough. we do not consent to police being free to kill the very people that they are using tickets to pay for policing, right? black communities are by and large paying for the cops, paying for policing, because we're getting the tickets written on us. we're getting pulled over. we're the ones who are subsidizing and funding the killing of our own families. and people of all races are finally saying, this is the line. and as i was saying, before we went to the great reporting on
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the ground there, there are some police who are saying it too. i know you talked a lot of law enforcement folks in the last several weeks. so have i, nicole, and even law enforcement people that i have talked to are saying, we got to draw lines. and ten police officers drew a line with derek chauvin, and they said, this is too much. and i think that's important for public policy. >> it's -- it's just been a remarkable three weeks. joy reid, i know -- it's been a remarkable three weeks. i know you have been covering it. i know you have to go and prepare for your broadcast but i have to say, along with being one of the most important voices on our network, one of the most important voices right now in this moment, so thank you for carving out time to be part of this coverage, my friend. >> thank you, my friend. appreciate you. >> okay, brian, back to you. >> nicole, i mentioned it in the moment, and we were dealing with the immediate aftermath of hearing guilty, guilty, guilty, but there was video from inside
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the courtroom, standard operating procedure, the minute you are convicted, you are handled differently. you are treated differently. and this was derek chauvin uncharacteristically putting his hands behind his back, getting handcuffed by a deputy. the whole world, as much as they watched the death of george floyd, as much as they watched this trial so intently, now the whole world has seen that. the view of derek chauvin. we won't see him again until the next court proceeding. there is a matter of aggravating and mitigating circumstances, and as you heard the judge say, we have a two-month wait now until sentencing. but as we also said in the immediate aftermath of hearing the verdicts, there is every possibility that chauvin will not see the light of day again,
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especially the felony murder charge, murder 2, comes with a hefty, hefty penalty, but nicole, i think we're all looking at the same live pictures from two different locations in the twin cities. the crowd is growing, and the crowd is peaceful. they have been blessed with a beautiful afternoon in the twin cities where, again, central time, it's 4:32 p.m. there is the scene of the crime. there is the scene of the memorial. cup foods, the otherwise unremarkable bodega, small neighborhood food store that is now known the world over. its facade, the surveillance video that we saw shot from across the street, shot from inside. of course, the 9 minutes and 29 seconds that told the story that
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ended this afternoon, nicole. >> brian, i want to bring claire mccaskill back in the conversation and i want to show you, claire, it was brief, but we did get to speak to george floyd's brother, rodney. our colleague, the reverend al sharpton, is in their home. let me just replay some of that sound for you. >> i'm feeling tears of joy, so emotional that no family in history ever got this far. you know, they didn't get a guilty charge on all the counts. we got a chance to go to trial. this right here is for everyone that's been in this situation, everybody. everybody. we are here. we stand in a unit. thank you to al sharpton for being right here with us from the very first day until the last. i know we're not done yet. >> claire, through no design or desire of their own, america has gotten to know the floyd family. the president talked about his
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daughter, who he met the day before the funeral for george floyd. just talk about this family and how they have channelled an extraordinary strength during unimaginable grief and they have been a constant, constant source of calling for peaceful protests and calm in the streets of their hometown. >> as this family opened their arms very wide and shared their grief, today they opened their arms wide and had a chance to embrace justice. and that's a very special moment for this family. and we need to remember, and in a nod to jason, and some of the things he said right after the verdict was announced, you know, justice won this battle today, but i do think this trial and everything it represents has made us all realize that this is a war that we are fighting for justice and for equality, and our criminal justice system in
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this country, and there are more battles to be fought and more battles to be won, but today, there was justice. and brian's right. i think he can get up to 40 years in prison for a murder 2 conviction in minnesota. if my memory serves me correctly about the minnesota statutes. so, now there will be pressure on the sentencing and how long will the sentence be, but he was not only convicted of the most serious crime charged, but the lesser includes long with it and i think that was a very important thing to have happen to begin to rebuild the trust, just to begin. i know we're a long way from there, but to begin to rebuild the trust. >> and claire, i just want to tell our viewers what's been on the screen. anyone who watched all of the days of testimony would recognize george floyd's girlfriend in the red shirt there. she testified to their struggle with addiction. she was there participating in a
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prayer service while you were talking. claire, jason did sort of set the tone for all these conversations about the work that remains ahead, and i would expect that to be especially in light of the day, as you're saying, that justice had, that would be some of the substance of the president's remarks. is that a safe assumption? >> i think it is. and there are several messages that go out today. i hope there's a message, and i relate to that white man that we interviewed that said, you know, i didn't realize the kind of privilege i enjoyed until it was laid bare throughout this process. i relate to that, but i do think the message was also sent today to police officers across the country. yes, yes, you can be convicted of murder, of using your authority in a way that kills people without justification. i think that's also a very important message to go out, because believe me, every police
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officer in america was watching this trial, and they all heard those verdicts loud and clear. >> paul butler, i want to bring you back in on that point. the rev described it as the crumbling of the blue wall. we all sat in some of those days of testimony together. i believe derek chauvin's supervising officer, the officer who trained him gave clear and condemning testimony against derek chauvin. do you think that will have the result that claire is talking about? that perhaps a police officer would have a little space in their mind where they think twice? >> i certainly hope so, nicole. trials are imperfect vehicles for social change. that's not what they're designed for. they are about accountability and bringing individuals who have done wrong to justice. but in the eyes of the law,
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derek chauvin is a murderer, and i get what jason was saying, and this does not answer for emmett till or rodney king or breonna taylor, but it's important. it means -- >> this is keith ellison, the attorney general of minnesota, former member of congress and a very relieved man at this hour. >> when i became the lead prosecutor for the case, i asked for time and patience to review the facts, gather evidence, and prosecute for the murder of george floyd to the fullest extent the law allowed. i want to thank the community for giving us that time and allowing us to do our work. that long, hard, painstaking work has culminated today. i would not call today's verdict justice, however, because justice implies true
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restoration. but it is accountability, which is the first step towards justice. and now, the cause of justice is in your hands, and when i say your hands, i mean the hands of the people of the united states. george floyd mattered. he was loved by his family and his friends. his death shocked the conscience of our community, our country, the whole world. he was loved by his family and friends, but that isn't why he mattered. he mattered because he was a human being, be and there is no way we can turn away from that reality. the people who stopped and raised their voices on may 25th, 2020, were a bouquet of humanity. a phrase i stole from my friend, jerry blackwell. a bouquet of humanity. old, young, men and women, black
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and white, a man from the neighborhood just walking to get a drink, a child going to buy a snack with her cousin, an off-duty firefighter on her way to a community garden, brave young women, teenagers, who pressed record on their cell phones. why did they stop? they didn't know george floyd. they didn't know he had a beautiful family. they didn't know he had been a great athlete, and they didn't know he was a proud father or that he had people in his life who loved him. they stopped and raised their voices, and they even challenged authority because they saw his humanity. they stopped and they raised their voices because they knew that what they were seeing was wrong. they didn't need to be medical professionals or experts in the use of force. they knew it was wrong, and they
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were right. these community members, this bouquet of humanity, did it again in this trial. they performed simple, yet profound acts of courage. they told the truth, and they told the whole world the truth about what they saw. they were vindicated by the chief of police, by minneapolis's longest-serving police officer, and by many other police officers who stepped up and testified as to what they saw and to what they knew. what happened on that street was wrong. we owe it and we owe our gratitude to fulfilling their -- we owe them our gratitude for fulfilling their civic duty and for their courage in telling the truth. to countless people in minnesota, and across the united states, who joined them in peacefully demanding justice for george floyd, we say, all of us,
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thank you. in the coming days, more may seek to express themselves again through petition and demonstration. i urge everyone to honor the legacy of george floyd by doing so calmly, legally, and peacefully. i urge everyone to continue the journey to transformation and justice. it's in your hands now. i also want to address the floyd family, if i may. over the last year, the family of george floyd had to relive again and again the worst day of their lives. when they lost their brother, their father, their friend. i'm profoundly grateful to them for giving us the time we needed to prosecute this case. they have shown the world what grace and class and courage really look like. although a verdict alone cannot end their pain, i hope it's another step on the long path toward healing for them. there's no replacing your
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beloved perry or floyd, as his friends called him, but he is the one who sparked a worldwide movement, and that's important. we owe our thanks to the men and women of the jury who gave many hours of their time and attention to carefully listening to the evidence, weighing the facts, rendering a verdict. they are regular people from all walks of life, a lot like that bouquet of humanity on that corner on may 25th, and in that courtroom. they answered the call, and they served in a landmark trial. they now deserve to return to their lives. if they ask you to respect their privacy, we ask you to honor that request. i want to acknowledge the remarkable team that helped us prosecute the case. we put everything we had into this prosecution. we presented the best case that
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we could, and the jury heard us and we're grateful for that. we had the sole burden of proof in the case, and history shows that winning cases like these can be difficult. i'm proud of every hour, every minute, and every ounce of effort we put in this case, and let me tell you, we spent many hours working on this case, did we not? week after week, committee meeting after committee meeting, this team never let up and it never quit. we fought every day, and we did it together. the attorney general's office together with the hennepin county attorney's office, thank you, sir. and we did it together. i'm deeply grateful to everyone who worked on the case. most of these folks will tell you it's a bad idea to put together a team of all michael jordans. nobody would want to pass the ball. the team, that was their true strength, is sharing the load, passing the ball, understanding
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that all of us together are smarter than any one of us alone. and that worked. although the verdict has been rendered, this is not the end. in the coming weeks, the court will determine sentencing, and later this summer, we expect to present another case. we will not be talking about that. this verdict reminds us how hard it is to make enduring change. and i just want to finish by sharing some important historical legacy, if you allow me. in 1968, the commission was formed to investigate the causes of uprisings across major american cities, and a man named dr. kenneth clark, a famous african-american psychologist, who along with his equally accomplished psychologist wife, mamie, contributed to compelling research in the brown vs. board of education case and dr. clark
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testified at the kerner commission and i want to quote you what he said. i read that report, the one in the 1919 riot in chicago, and it was as if i were reading the report of investigating the committee of the harlem riot in 1935, the report on investigating the harlem riot in 1943, and the report of the mccomb commission on the watts riot. i must say again in candor, to you, the members of this commission, it's like a kind of alice in wonderland with the same moving picture reshown over and over and over again, the same analysis, the same recommendation, and the same inaction. those were the words of dr. clark in 1968. here we are in 19 -- excuse me, 2020, 2021. here we are in 2021, still addressing the same problem. since dr. clark testified, we
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have seen rodney king, abner, oscar grant, eric garner, michael brown, freddie gray, sandra bland, philando castile, breonna taylor, and now daunte wright and adam toledo. this has to end. we need true justice. that's not one case. that is a social transformation that says that nobody's beneath the law, and no one is above it. this verdict reminds us that we must make enduring, systemic, societal change. more than a month ago, months before george floyd was murdered, the minnesota public safety commissioner, john harrington, and i released the recommendations of our working group on reducing deadly force encounters with law enforcement. what all of us in that working
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group, including law enforcement, wanted is for everyone to go home safe. any time someone doesn't, everyone's lives are changed forever. we need to use this verdict as an inflection point. what if we just prevented the problem instead of having to try these cases? we don't want any more community members dying at the hands of law enforcement and their families' lives ruined. we don't want any more law enforcement members having to face criminal charges and their families' lives ruined. we don't want any more communities torn apart. one way to prevent this is to get into a new relationship where we, as a society, re-examine the use of force and our old assumptions. i'm so proud of chief arrodondo and the minneapolis police officers who by their testimony said, enough is enough. and another way to prevent it is by acknowledging and lifting up
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everyone's humanity, helping communities heal, and the officers be well. another way to prevent it is with accountability, passing laws and instituting policies and training is important, but they must be more than words on paper, and there must be accountability for violating them. with this verdict, we have brought some accountability. finally, this verdict demands us to never give up the hope that we can make enduring change. generations of people said slavery would never end. generations said jim crow would never end. generations said women would never be equal to men. generations said if you were different in any way, you could never be a full and equal member of our society. today, we have to end this travesty of recurring, enduring deaths at the hands of law enforcement. those beliefs are things we have to focus our attention on. and as i now do close, i just
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want to say to you, the work of our generation is to put unaccountable law enforcement behind us. it's time to transfer the relationship -- transform the relationship between community and the people who are sworn to protect them from one that is mistrustful, suspicious and in some cases terrifying into one that is empathetic and affirming. that will benefit everyone, including police officers who deserve to serve in a profession that is honored in departments where they don't have to worry about colleagues who don't follow the rules. now that work is in your hands, the work of our generation is to put an end to the vestiges of jim crow and trauma and finally put an end to racism. we can end it. it doesn't have to be with us into the future if we decide now to have true liberty and justice for all. the work of our generation is to
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say good-bye to old practices that don't serve us any more and to put them all behind us. one conviction, even one like that one can create a powerful new opening to shed old practices and reset relationships. so with that, i just want to say that i do hope that people step forward and understand that nobody can do everything, that everybody can do something. you can do something the way every day people like donald williams and christopher martin and charles mcmilan and all those teenagers and young people stepped up and did something. you can help pass the george floyd justice and accountability act. it is in your hands. let's get the work done. and now i'm like to invite my friend and partner in justice michael freeman, county
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attorney. >> thank you, mr. attorney general. first i want, once again, to extend my heart felt sympathies to the families of george floyd. i hope today as a verdict provide some measure of closure for them. now let me say what a tremendous job the attorney general keith ellison did in recruiting a team of talented prosecutors and supporting staff. great job. matt frank and others were exceptional. their use of experts, evidence and witnesses left the jury no alternative but to find mr. chauvin guilty. we and the people of minnesota should rightly be proud of these four and your entire staff of volunteers and assistant attorney generals and the jobs they did over the last seven weeks. i'm also proud from the moment
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that the county attorney's office charged derek chauvin with murder and manslaughter four days after george floyd's murder. our team worked long hours side by side with the attorney general's team, managing attorney did legal analysis and writing. assistant county attorney joshua larson did witness prep and strategy development and manager of our victim services division has been in direct contact for yearly a year now with the family of george floyd. victim and witness advocates managed all the witnesses, civilian and professional. my two deputies supplies strategic advice and coordination to this talented team 24/7. these guilty verdicts against mr. chauvin cannot be the end of the conversation of officer
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killings of civilians. we need to prevent these killings in the first place. the minnesota legislature as it moves into the final three weeks of the session must pass a number of bills that will make policing fair and safer for all, but especially for black men and women and other people of color. i have been lobbying legislatures to pass these critical bills. if they fail, then it will be time once again to have a statewide task force to hold hearings and come up with model legislation intending to put an end to these deaths. i am prepared to be part of that fight. again, keith, great job. >> thank you, mike. >> and now i'd like to ask the trial lawyers to -- to share some thoughts, if they have any. but before i do that, i'd like to, myself, thank a number of people. i'm just going to start by -- well, why don't we just -- why don't we just have our trial
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lawyers come forward and then we'll thank all our whole team. jerry, steve, which one of you want to do it? >> thank you, attorney general ellison. and when i say thank you to attorney general ellison, i want to thank you for calling me and calling me back into public service, which is something that i was able to do as a federal prosecutor, as a state prosecutor, as an assistant county attorney in the united states army. when i left private practice i thought those days were behind me, but i received a call and it was from keith ellison. and he gave me the opportunity to step back into public service, something that is to important to me, something that i cherish. and i would encourage anyone, if you get a call like that as an attorney, it is a privileged life. it is noble profession. and if somebody calls you and
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they ask you for help, don't overthink it. just do it. as i found in my career, you get a lot more than you give. i'm honored to have stood with the floyd family, to have stood with the state of minnesota as we go through this painful process. and it's been my privilege to practice with this incredit, incredible, gifted trial team. and, so, i stand here today in gratitude. i'm thankful. i want to thank the jury for their service for doing what was right and decent and correct and speaking the truth and finding the right verdict in this case. >> i'm jerry blackwell. my comments are going to be fairly brief. i want to first say thank you to all of the selfless servants that you see standing here and the many more that you do not
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see who had the willingness, the courage, the passion, the fortitude to get into good trouble. they stepped into the light, and they shined. and for that i say thank you. i am grateful for them. i'm grateful for the opportunity that i've had to serve. now, no verdict can bring george perry floyd back to us. but this verdict does give a message to his family, that he was somebody, that his life mattered, that all of our lives matter. and that's important. and i also hope that this verdict, for all of the rest of the collective all of us, will help us further along the road to a better humanity. thank you all. >> matt frank. >> well, i can't really follow that too much. but i just want to say that it's been really a privilege to work with this awesome group of
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dedicated, hard working people in this endeavor. but it's also been just a total privilege to get to know the floyd family and to spend time with them and get to know them. because, first and foremost, this is for you, george floyd, and for your family and friends. thank you. >> so let me also thank very publically aaron eldridge who was part of our trial time. lola, thank you for a wonderful job that you did. josh larson. zuri balmicka. and natasha robinson, i want to thank you and the next generation and the next generation of justice seekers. dion dodd, thank you very much. and i want to thank you vernona
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boswell. you are a star. i also want to thank so many other people, but with that we're going to close our comments right now and just say that we're prepared to continue to pursue justice. thank you. >> the attorney general of the state of minnesota, the former democratic member of congress, keith ellison, a big day for the prosecution team as you heard from the hennepin county attorney. and as we heard over and over again, the privilege of serving the family of george floyd, how much george floyd mattered. and it really matters that the floyd family throughout, family and friends have maintained such a dignified and strong presence.
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indeed, before we go any further, i want to show you a piece of video. our correspondent shaquille brewster encountered courtney ross, girlfriend of the late george floyd, and captured her comments after the verdict. >> can you tell me, what did you think when you first heard that verdict? >> i'm just extremely thankful that george's life is going to bring change now. i knew the verdict was going to be guilty. i knew it. >> so many people said it was your testimony that was so key to humanizing george floyd, to help the jury connect with george floyd. hearing that guilty verdict, what do you think of your influence on this? >> you know, it's easy to talk about floyd. i could talk about him all day. so my testimony was just true to


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