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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  April 19, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT

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reporting and insights. we really appreciate it. and they are, of course -- republicans are betting that the old messaging on taxes is going to work for them, but frankly, raising rates on corporations is incredibly popular. i think it's possible the ground has shifted here. we'll find out a little bit more this week. thank you so much for getting up way too early with us on this monday. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. empty seats can't cheer. they don't tailgate and they don't know fight songs. empty seats don't sing during servant inning stretches. and they don't know stats or superstitions. there's a sound track for places like this and it isn't made in a studio. it's made by you. so when it's your turn to get the vaccine, be a fan. take the shot. >> singer brad paisley is ready for live concerts again. are you? he's urging his fans to get vaccinated so that can happen
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and a lot of the country is heeding that message in some way, shape, or form. yesterday, the government announced that half of u.s. adult population has received at least one dose of the covid-19 vaccine. that's pretty amazing. the cdc reported that almost 130 million people 18 and older, have started the vaccine regimen and almost 84 million adults are fully vaccinated, which is about 32.5% of the population. we are getting there. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, april 19th. with us, we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. professor at princeton university, eddie glaude jr., and professor at the lyndon b. johnson school of public affairs at the university of texas,
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victoria defrancesco soto. thank you all so much for being with us this morning. we'll get to that good news on the vaccine in just a moment. but first, we begin this morning with minneapolis and the whole country really on edge as a verdict in the murder trial of former police officer derek chauvin could come this week. closing arguments are set to begin today. the prosecution and defense will make their final cases to the jury before it's sequestered for deliberations. chauvin faces three charges in the death of george floyd. second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter. minneapolis is bracing for potential unrest as the city reckons with another police shooting of an unarmed black man in the midst of a trial. there have been protests every day since the shooting of daunte wright. in new york, police officers have been told that they cannot take off any unscheduled days
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starting today until further notice. and in philadelphia, more than 1,000 national guard troops have already been activated. let's bring in former member of president obama's task force on 21st century policing, cedric alexander, among his many former law enforcement posts, is as a public safety director of dekalb county in georgia. and this morning, we are happy to announce, he's now an msnbc law enforcement analyst. we thank you for joining us this morning. >> cedric, thank you so much. what are you expecting this week? well, it's going to be an interesting week and it's going to be a fast-moving week, as well. if we consider everything, joe, mika, that's going on in the country at this moment, and we're going to begin to hear these closing arguments today. i think a lot of people are not really sure which way this trial could potentially go. the outcome of this could potentially go. so i think it's one of these kind of weeks and days you just
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tie on your seat belt and get ready, because we're going to take a ride across this country, during these closing arguments. people are going to be waiting. so we'll see. >> so, cedric, a lot of -- we have seen time and again police officers charged in the killing of black men. and we've seen juris do what juris often do, and that is, give the benefit of the doubt to a police officer whether the victim is white or black or hispanic. in this case, obviously, america saw what happened over nine and a half, ten minutes. do you expect a different verdict this week than what we've seen in the past, whether it's come out of baltimore or north charleston or even on staten island with eric gardner? >> well, i think, you know, it's kind of really hard to tell. if we considered the past history of police officers being
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convicted for the killing of black men in this country, and let's be very frank about it, in many cases, there have been very few convictions at all. overall, but i think we're at a place in this country, at this very moment, where people are recognizing something here is very much wrong. we've certainly had a lot of opinion from people in the public and across this country, but the real opinion is going to be decided today or this week, i should say by a jury of chauvin's peers. i don't know what this outcome is going to be. there's opinion according to the public, but it's going to be that jury that's going to decide. if we look at history, joe, if we look at history, it's not always been on the side of those in this country who feel the most oppressed by police. we've got to fix that. we need public safety, we need good public safety. >> eddie glaude, of course, if we look at the past, if we look
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at past verdicts when police officers are standing trial, then there's not reason to believe. there's not good reason to believe that derek chauvin will be convicted. that the jury come down with a guilty verdict. that said, if you look at the fact that so many of his fellow police officers and police experts actually testified against him, they're led to believe that this time may be different. what are your thoughts going into this week where, my gosh, over the next few days, we should know what that verdict is going to be in a case that transfixed america for over a year. >> yes, joe, i'm not sure. i agree with you to the point that the prosecution has put on an extremely strong case.
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the evidence is clear. the fellow officers who testified against chauvin would suggest that the jury will come back with a guilty verdict on all three counts in some ways. but, you know, the defense was playing to a jury of one. that's all they need is one juror to have reasonable doubt to hang this jury. so we can't run ahead -- you know, get ahead of our skis, to use one of mika's favorite phrases. we can't get ahead of our skis here. and i also think we can't expect, you know, an atticus finch-like closing argument on the part of the prosecution here. we need to just kind of put ourselves in a space to kind of prepare for what will come down the pike. because we still have this extraordinary national debate, joe, about the form of policing. whatever the decision will be in this trial, we still have to address how police engage in their work across the country. so we still have a lot of work to do moving forward. >> and that work, that work has
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a lot to do with de-escalation and what leads up to a shooting, especially in the case of daunte wright. you can look at every decision that was made before and that there is room for improvement on many levels across the country. jonathan lemire, what is the white house thinking about this, preparing in any way? how connected are they to watching this verdict come down and being prepared to react? >> i've been watching it warily for weeks now. the white house from the podium will not weigh in one way or the other about what he thought to the verdict. president biden has been clear what he thought happened to george floyd has been a tragedy. and this is a story told far too often in communities and black households across the nation. certainly, there will be a federal response. the national guard, we are seeing, has been activated throughout the country. not just in minnesota, but other cities, as well. the president and his team are
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going to be watching this very carefully. there could, indeed be, you know, he is -- we're expecting him to hear from him as soon as the verdict is done, or very soon there afterwards. but even prior that, we saw him meet with leaders of the congressional black caucus last week, where they talked about, they need to change the fundamental relationship between black americans and police officers in this country. this was a central focus of his presidential campaign after floyd's death. and we have seen it happen far too often since then, in other moments, where black men have died at the hands of white police officers. they are, of course, concerned there could be some violence breaking out. and we should always underscore, the majority of protests after floyd's death last year were very peaceful. there were times, though, of course, when it did escalate into violence. and i think you will see a coordinated federal response. they're talking to governors, they're talking to mayors in big cities. certainly a lot of focus on minneapolis, but throughout the nation, just in case, if there is a verdict, if there is some
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sort of outcry and outburst, if there is some violence, the federal government will be quick to mobilize. >> we are following new developments this morning in the mass shooting that took place at a fedex facility in indianapolis last thursday. police say the 19-year-old gunman who previously worked at the facility legally bought the two assault rifles used in the attack, despite red flag laws designed to prevent exactly such a purchase. in march of 2020, police seized a shotgun from then 18-year-old brandon scott hole after his mother raised alarms about his mental health. his mother raised alarms about his mental health. the gun they took was not returned. but according to police, in the months that followed hole was able to legally purchase the two guns used in thursday's attack. they were brought in july and september of 2020. indiana's red flag law allows police to seize guns from people
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who show warning signs of violence. the law is intended to prevent people from purchasing or possessing a firearm if they are found by a judge to present an imminent risk to themselves or others. official have not said whether a judge made a red flag ruling in hole's case. on friday, president biden spoke about this latest mass shooting. >> every single day, every single day, there's a mass shooting in this -- in the united states, if you count all of those who are killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. it's a national embarrassment and must come to an end. >> victoria, we actually have right now a national consensus, an overwhelming national consensus on expanding background checks, universal background checks, background checks and private sales, background checks at gun shows, red flag laws.
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i could go down the list. it is an expanding consensus among americans. and yet, politicians in washington, d.c., specifically republicans in washington, d.c., have been working as much as they can to push back on any reasonable laws. even these red flag laws. some republicans are supporting those, but for some reason, things just don't seem to happen in washington, d.c. if there are ever any laws related to gun safety, is joe biden going to be able to do anything about that? are we going to have more people pushing back on common sense gun safety regulation? >> joe, i would argue that not only is there not going to be a pushback, but there's going to be a move in the other direction. and joe, yesterday afternoon, here in austin, in the northwest part of the city, we saw another
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instance of an active shooter. every day, we've gotten to the point where you have multiple incidents a week. it has become common. we no longer blink at it, and that is what is so wrong. but i do worry about what is going to be done. not just because of the defense being played on the part of the gun lobby, but active offense. here in the texas senate, right now we are seeing a lot of traction being gained for having handguns carried without permits. so we're going in the opposite direction. and so when i'm sitting here in austin, and i'm seeing this type of legislation moving through, i feel very pessimistic at the thought that we're going to see some bold federal level moves, because the gun rights focus s because the gun rigs folks are alive and well, not just playing defense, but offense at the same time. >> you know, cedric, we always
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say this, it bears repeating here, though, because victoria is so right. you look at the extremes and these extremes push the agenda far more than most republicans, most conservatives, most gun owners. even most members of the nra. you ask most members of the nra whether they support universal background checks, enhanced background checks. 60 to 70% of them say they do. you know, you're in pensacola. my friends in pensacola that, you know, who, again, i always say, first baptist church, who started going hunting with their dads when they were 5, 6, 7 years old in the fall, they want universal background checks. they want red flag laws. they don't want terrorists to be able to walk up at gun shows and just pick up any type of gun they want to pick up. they want common sense gun safety laws, too. so this isn't about gun owners.
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this isn't even about members of the nra. this is about those extreme 20% that are holding the rest of us hostage. >> literally. >> but, really, you know what part of the issue is, joe, is this. is yes, we have a large part of the american population that want to have gun regulation. you know, we've seen the stats, we've seen the data. they want something done. but if you notice, that's what the majority of americans want, if you notice what happens is that that doesn't change at the ballot box. those same elected officials who are pushing away from gun regulation of any sort, but they're still getting elected every year or every two years, every six years. so what the data may say may be one thing, but what happened at the voting booth is something
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entirely different. and i will tell you this, as being a former two-time police chief in this country, we have a real serious gun problem. and my concern has always been, as a chief has been two-fold. one, the safety of the community in which i was responsible for protecting, but also the safety of police officers, who are out here bravely, boldly trying to do a great job. and they were coming up against weaponry more powerful than what they had in their possession. so that's a real issue. so it's one thing for us to say, this is what the data says. we want gun control. yes, we want gun control, new legislation, et cetera. but the american people are not acting out at the voter booth for a change. that becomes the problem right there, joe. >> yeah. >> cedric alexander, thank you so much. once again, he is now an msnbc
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law enforcement analyst. we'll be looking forward to hearing back from him very soon. president biden says he will raise the cap on the number of refugees admitted to the united states. the change came one day after he was criticized by democratic lawmakers for initially agreeing to keep the trump administration's historically low figure in place. biden explained the confusion on saturday when speaking with reporters and while doing so, notably called the situation at the southern border a crisis. >> so, katty, obviously, fierce pushback from progressives. not just really progressives in the democratic party, but a lot of democrats, a lot of other
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outside groups that caused the biden administration to reverse course quickly, in about 24 hours. >> yeah, it was a kind of rare moment in what has been impressively effective and efficient administration so far, where the administration was forced to turn back on itself and do so very quickly. i've been speaking to human rights and refugee advocates over the last few weeks and they've been growing increasingly frustrated that the white house hasn't raised this cap from the trump era. and when it was put out from the white house that it wasn't going to be raised, there was a massive amount of disappointment. you had dick durbin being actually vocally critical of the president, effectively. something he really hasn't done so far, come out and say, you know, this can't stand, say it ain't so. and refugee advocates, as well, coming out and saying, this is not what america stands for.
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and it's not what the president said he was going to do when he first came into office and it's not what jo biden had campaigned on. the interesting thing here is the speed with which the white house changed its position, 24 hours. and the fact they made a misstep on this. they judged this one wrong. they seemed to think they could get away with keeping the levels the same because of the situation on the border. they didn't want to be in a position to be criticized for raising refugee limits on the border. but it wasn't something tolerable. this is not what the administration was seem to have stand for. they didn't want to see joe biden be in that same bucket. >> jonathan lemire, give us a look behind the scenes about what happened over that 24 hours. >> certainly, joe. yes, it was stunning how quick the reversal what. friday morning, they put out the statement in terms of what the cap would be, that it wouldn't be lifted, that they were adhering to trump-era policies. there's been some dissension
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within the west wing as to how exactly to handle this. what would be the best messaging for it. over the weekend, there was a lot of second guessing as to how this came out. and they were reactive. they saw immediately they were being really torched from lawmakers, like senator durbin, has kathy just shade, who have been largely positive of the administration. liberals on social media with large followings. really tearing into the president saying, look, this is a broken promise. this is not what you said you would do last year during the campaign. and a hurriedly drafted statement by the white house released in the name of jen psaki, what pointed the finger at the media for getting the number wrong. that's not the case. they did, in fact, set the number there, at the lower mark. now they're saying they'll work to it. but that 65,200 number. with the president's original goal, that won't be met by the end of the year. they don't think that's
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realistic. they fanned out advisers, including national security adviser jake sullivan who made a point of saying, refugees are in the air. the president is allowing those from the middle east and africa. they are able to again, but acknowledged it would be a ramp up before they would initially hit the mark that the president had promised. so this is being cited as somewhat of good news from activists. and i was part of those reporters who was with the president over the weekend after his first round of golf in office. and it is notable that he used the word "crisis" to describe the situation at the border. it's a right-wing talking point, but it's the first time we've heard someone from the white house use that word rather than challenge. and it speaks to the urgency that they recognize that the matter requires. vice president harris going to be talking about it again this week and planning her own trip to the border before long. >> former president george w. bush, meanwhile, is calling on congress to tone down its harsh rhetoric on immigration.
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>> i don't want to be prescriptive. i don't want to tell congress how to do this or that. i do want to say to congress, please put aside the harsh rhetoric about immigration. please put aside trying to score political points on either side. i hope i can help set a tone that is more respectful about the immigrant, which may lead to reform of the system. >> the former president also wrote an op-ed for "the washington post" urging congress to pass reform measures that he hopes will restore america's confidence in the immigration system. victoria defrancesco soto, what are the measures that you think would do that and does president bush have a point? >> yeah, and president bush, from his first campaign for federal office for president, has always been an ally of comprehensive immigration reform.
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actually, days before 9/11, mexico and the united states were just about to clinch an immigration reform bill, but that got put on the back burner as a result of 9/11. but what we're focused on here is something focused on asylum and refugees, to what we were speak about earlier. there is no ppetite for talking about comprehensive immigration reform at the moment, until we get to what is going on at the border, and how we balance that with the refugee situation. even though there are a lot of similarities between how we classify refugees and asylees, the devil is in the details. and while there are caps for refugees, there are no caps for asylees. so you see the biden administration feeling the political pressure. but i would also add to that is just the logistical pressure. there is not the man or womanpower to process the folks who are at the border and at the same time process refugees. so what we're seeing here is going to be some action in how
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we deal with refugees and asylees. if we're going to see any movement on immigration, it's going to be on dealing with asylees and refugees, the situation not at the border, and more comprehensive immigration reform path that former president bush talked about is not going to happen until we address this moment. >> you know, eddie, we've talked about how different this republican party is from the republican party of years past. george w. bush pushed hard with john mccain and ted kennedy to get comprehensive immigration reform. ronald reagan's farewell speech, i just pulled it up really quickly. reagan said, immigrants are the most important source of america's greatness. this quality is vital to our future and our nation. if we ever close the door to new americans, our leadership in the world would be lost. this was -- this was like the
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cornerstone, right, free trade and immigration and small government. this was the cornerstone for republicans up until the last ten years. and what a departure it's been, but how dangerous for this country and its fie vault. >> there's a story to be told about the devolution of the republican party, the kind of metastasizing of a certain libertarian and nativist wing of the party that needs to be written. i think it's going to be a very, very sad and tragic story in some ways. but there seems to be a through line. and i would love to hear your thoughts about this, a through line over the last events from january 6th to voter suppression
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laws or voter i.d. laws to the attacks on asian americans to the debate around immigration. there is this crisis, and we saw it articulated in a very crude way in the america first caucus document, or what was purportedly this document. there's this kind of crisis around american identity. who do we take ourselves to be in this country. so the immigration debate is weighted, it seems to me by this crisis around whiteness, this crisis around, who do we take ourselves to be as a country. and it seems to me, if we make that explicit or maybe not, maybe we can get at the heart of what's blocking the away to serious immigration reform in the country. but as you say, though, there is a tragic story at the heart of this and that tragedy has layers, joe, it seems to me. >> well, and eddie, it's dividing the republican party and its leaders think they can have it both way. i look at kevin mccarthy, who on january the 6th, condemned donald trump for what happened.
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because you had anti-democratic radicals, insurrectionists with who wanted to overturn an election result, because they didn't like the outcome. they department like the fact that the majority of americans or more americans voted for joe biden than donald trump. so they tried to overturn the election. kevin mccarthy had first criticized it. then he went down to mar-a-lago, to embrace donald trump. here, we had the xenophobic caucus come out last week, which, you know, i don't know. is it just pure -- is it a white nationalist caucus? because i know they were saying things that got steve cain kicked off of his committee, not so many years ago. i'm sure steve is going, what? i guess timing is everything, but they have a caucus for what i got kicked off my committees for? so what happened after that? kevin mccarthy came out and
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tweeted and criticized, without using their names, criticized that caucus. so, you know, a house divided against itself cannot stand. and this is a republican party who understands that there's an angry base that is corroding its ability to continue being competitive in national elections, but eddie, they, they keep -- they keep going back. and they keep trying to have it both ways. and in a case like this, if you're talking about white nationalism or if you're talking about fascism, you can't have it both ways. you've got to choose one side or the other. >> and you have to make the choice. you know, in some ways, john -- speaker boehner was on "meet the press" this weekend. and he was talking about how he was trying to deal with certain elements of the tea party, trying to bring them into the
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fold. and one of the things that kind of came to mind as he was saying it, at least to my mind is that there are some people, certain positions that you just cannot reconcile with. and this anglo saxon ideology has shaped our policy during that period. but you can't reckon that within this period. you can't deal with that. but we see folks over and over again feeding them red meat. they think they can't win local elections or control the statehouses or win national elections without that activist base. but a choice has to be made, joe. i think you're absolutely right. a choice has to be made. >> and unfortunately, mika, the choice that a lot of republicans are making are to leave. john boehner just finally realized, he had to leave. you have rob portman, who's just decided, he has to leave.
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you have pat toomey who's decided, he just has to leave. there are a lot of republicans who have come to the conclusion that they can't fight this. it's time for them to go home. that just makes the party go even further down. into the drain. and i would suggest in the long run, again, just closer to a permanent minority status. certainly in national elections and presidential years. >> that's not necessarily good for the country, a good balance would help. but this is not balanced. this is two different languages. >> we desperately need in my opinion a conservative party right now. we just don't have one. >> victoria defrancesco soto thank you so much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead on "morning joe," dr. anthony fauci offers a blunt assessment of republicans who want covid restrictions lifted, but refuse to get a vaccine. saying, it doesn't make any
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sense. plus, russian opposition leader alexei navalny is reportedly near death and the white house warns russia there will be consequences if he dies. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> this, i believe, is one of the most important sources of america's greatness. we lead the world because unique among nations, we draw our people, our strength from every country and every corner of the world. and by doing so, we continuously renew and enrich our nation. while other countries cling to the stale past, here in america, we breathe life into dreams, we create the future, and the world follows us into tomorrow. thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, we're a nation forever young, forever bursting with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge, always leading the world to the
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next frontier. this quality is vital to our future as a nation. if we ever close the door to new americans, our leadership in the world would soon be lost. d ulwot
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the royal family remembered the life of the late prince philip at a ceremony over the weekend. he was transported in a custom built land rover followed by a procession of royal family members, including his grandsons, prince william and harry. only 30 guests were allowed to attend the indoor service due to british coronavirus restrictions. the ceremony was set to reflect the late prince's strong military ties interwoven with personal elements with no eulogy or sermon.
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the dean of windsor led the service who honored the duke for his unwavering loyalty to his wife. ahead of the funeral, the royal family shared this never-before-seen photograph of the queen and prince philip, relaxing in the scottish highlands. in his latest piece for "the new yorker" entitled "prince philip's death and the last embers of british stoicism," anthony lane writes in part, the authentic note of stoicism, embattled but unlamenting is very rarely struck these days. with the death of the duke of edinburgh, i suspect we will hear it less andless. the stoic strain has become not only unfashionable, but easily mocked, or yet, suspected of being a cover for harsh psychological damage. philip would have argued that some sort of shield is required by all of us, whatever our situation, to fend off any
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sudden blows to steel us for the slough of boredom. there are no fair shares. the principal fault of stoic, as a rule, is an inability to see why other people can't take the same basic precautions. why they find it so damnably difficult to grow a thick skin. did philip consider the modern world too soft, too yielding for his taste? probably so. yet he was an unorthodox example of the hardy breed, because of his primary duty, as it turned out, was to protect not his own interests, but those of someone else, who happened to be the queen. >> katty kay, it has seemed over the past week that prince philip received the accolades in death that he rarely received in life while he was walking forever, two steps behind his queen. >> it's really interesting. we've learned much more about
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prince philip since he died, when he has been the center of attention than we ever did during the course of his life. i didn't know he was such a voracious reader, that he was interested in things as diverse as population control and engineering and technology. all of that was sort of kept hidden because of the role that he was in, which was the support role to her majesty. and that was the role he carried out for all of his life. i don't know, he might have been a bit exasperated by all of the attention he got over the last week. he wasn't somebody who wanted attention. he hated the idea of having a legacy, wherever interviewers tried to ask him what his legacy was going to be, he bristled at the very word of it and put it away. but he does have a legacy. and the legacy was on display this weekend. and it was the protection of that family and the protection of that monarchy, having come out of an incredibly turbulent time of his own, the greek royal family, which was his, had been dethroned. royal families were toppling all over europe. and he made it his mission to
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make sure that the british royal family would be strong. and he did that by protecting the queen. and of course, the most poignant part of the whole ceremony was watching the queen sitting, because of covid, by herself, as she mourned the man that had been by her side every day for the last 73 years. any of us would find that hard to cope with. she has to do it in public and carry on leading the country. >> yeah, and you talked about that stoicism, you talked about the fact that he hated people talking about his legacy, he hated talking about himself. his focus was always on his family and those around him. how to protect themselves. that certainly is a characteristic that is the antithesis of what we see so much in popular culture today. >> yeah. >> yes. i mean, i think he would have found all of that self-aggrandizing slightly kind of silly, really. the amount of self-absorption we
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have in popular culture and these instant celebrities. and you know, he came out of a school of hard knocks, right? he went to a very tough boarding school. he was raised by grandparents and aunts. his father went off and livid with a mistress in the south of france. his mother was committed to a mental hospital when he was young. there was nothing soft about prince philip's background. and maybe, he passed that on too much. he was a disciplinarian in his own family, but it was a changing of generations. that greatest generation that came out of the second world war. they had earned their stoicism. and they didn't speak about it. they didn't want attention around that kind of thing. i'm sure your dad was the same, mika. they kept a veil of silence around what they had done and what they had achieved. he didn't expect to talk about that and didn't really like other people talking about it, either. >> an earned stoicism. katty kay, thank you. coming up, developing news overnight from russia.
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officials there say putin critic alexei navalny has been moved to a hospital, just days after his doctors say he could die at any moment. we'll have that update. moment we'll veha that update
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from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.
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we have communicated to the russian government that what happens to mr. navalny in their custody is their responsibility and they will be held accountable by the international community. in terms of the specific measures that we would undertake, we are looking at a variety of different costs that we would impose. and i'm not going to telegraph that publicly at this point, but we have communicated that there will be consequences if mr. navalny dies. >> all right. national security adviser jake sullivan saying, there will be consequences if russian opposition leader alexei navalny dies. opposition leaders said overnight that navalny has been transferred to a hospital. the top putin critic is believed to have developed kidney and
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heart problems recently to go along with back pain and numbness in his legs. it comes three weeks into a hunger strike for navalny to protect -- to protest a lack of medical care. supporters are calling for a street demonstration in moscow on wednesday, demanding he get access to his own doctors. navalny has been imprisoned since january for what he calls a fake embezzlement charge. this was after spending months in germany to recover from being poisoned over the summer. >> jonathan lemire, we heard jake sullivan talk about possible recriminations if navalny dies. there have been back and forths, one crisis after another, it seems, with the russians for some time. and this is just the latest chapter. what can you tell us? >> certainly, joe, this administration has taken a much tougher line with russia than the trump administration ever did, but its hands are tied in
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terms of exactly how much punishment it can inflict on moscow. there has already been a wave of sanctions. we saw last week, of course, the u.s. strongly denouncing hacking, both election interference and corporate hacking that russia is believed to have done to the u.s. we have seen the president talk externally to vladimir putin in two separate now phone calls that they have had. although, it should be noted that biden did not bring up navalny to putin. certainly, the administration has been loudly proclaiming that the russian president needed to do something here with navalny's condition deteriorating. reports yesterday even that he was near death. so the fact that he is being hospitalized, taken to receive some medical care could be interpreted as a good sign, could be interpreted that putin has blinked at least somewhat and is not willing to let navalny just die in a russian prison. but things are very tense between these two governments
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right now. president biden floated the idea of a summit last week, that moscow met with very chilly reaction. and now the u.s. is saying sort of, backed off it somewhat saying, yes, of course, they would still like to meet, but this is not in the books. this is not certain. this may not ever happen. and we are seeing here that if navalny were to deteriorate further, we should expect more punishment, more sanctions from the u.s. as well as its eu partners. >> all right. as jonathan mentioned, all of this follows the biden administration slapping new sanctions on the kremlin, as reretaliation for that massive cyber attack last year. pressures between washington and moscow are nothing new, with decades of tension over everything from proxy wars to trade policy to nuclear proliferation. it's important to note that throughout history, oftentimes, breakthroughs in the strained relations have come via cultural moments. among them, a performance by legendary american pianist, van
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clyburn, at a 1987 state dinner for the gorbachevs at the white house. ♪♪ >> at the age of 23, he achieved worldwide recognition when he won the inaugural international tchaikovsky competition in moscow in 1938 during the cold war. "time" magazine louded him the texan who conquered russia. joining us now, historian and biographer, nigel cliff. he's the author of the book, "moscow nights: the van clyburn story, how one man and his piano transformed the cold war." >> nigel, we never thought we would look back to the good old
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days of khrushchev with a smile, but it's such a great chasm between the united states and russia has developed that it seems that even culturally, those cultural breakthroughs don't seem like a possibility right now. >> they seem a long way away, don't they. i was just listening to a piece thinking, how many similar things have happened in the cold war. how much is similar. we have had deaths, poisoning, proxy wars, annexations. we are in some ways back to where we were before, it seems to me. and culture has a part to play, of course. it's always there to remind people that they have similarities underneath, but emotionally, they're the same people and to connect people and to allow, i guess, the impressions of fraternity between people, but it seems we have a long way to go to get
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back to the khrushchev era, i agree. >> i remember a popular song in the mid-'80s, where the hook of it was, i hope the russians love their children, too. the van cliburn concert showed how willing russians were actually to embrace an american. he sort of received pre-beatles status there, with crowds adoring him. just, again, i'm wondering the disconnect between these two countries 20, 25 years after the berlin wall falls, we're actually in a worse position now than we were then. >> i think you're right. of course, it was the first time or the second time that the borders had been opened. so, you know, this was something brand-new. and what really made him this hero to russians as well as at
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home was, you know, what are the odds, this american arrives in a country which is being closed off for decades, which is virtually unknown. it sends shivers of fear up the spines of the west and the country falls in love with him, and thousands of women follow him around the streets and finding him anything they can find. the entire country fell in love with this exfootballer, long baptist texan who loved russian music. he was obsessed with russian music. so what are the odds? how often does that happen again? i think culture is always there to bind us together, but it takes something kind of unique and special and unpredictable to have this kind of mass impact that cliburn did have. >> the bbc's katty kay is with us. >> to what extent was that
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during the cold war they hadn't had that kind of access. could it be replicated again? could someone go in, maybe it's a cultural person to go in and break through the barriers that have resurfaced between the u.s. and russia recently? >> sure, you can imagine in sports or the arts that a figure who somehow had popularity that equaled his status over here in russia could provide that kind of link. and it has happened before. but i think -- i don't think this particular breakthrough can be repeated, because first of all, it was the first. it had never happened before. and he was just this kid, this 6'4" tall kid who was incredibly innocent and naive and madly in love with russian culture and just willing to effuse all the time how much he was in love with the country. and they were really blown away by it.
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when i was in moscow researching the book, people still go weak in the knees when i mention his name. he was a breakthrough figure in the soviet union at that time. >> nigel cliff, thank you so much. >> very cool. >> we greatly appreciate it. sometimes it's important to look back to figure out what we need to do moving forward. and let's hope for a cultural breakthrough. obviously, rounds of sanctions and back and forth not working. the book is "moscow nights: the van cliburn story, how one man and his piano transformed the cold war." and this leads us to only one question, what is going to transform the boston red sox pitching staff? the bleakest of winters we are going through now. >> not connected at all. >> the bleakest of winters. how did we fall? as with the u.s./russian relationship, how did the red sox season fall so far, so fast. >> it's a siberian winter, joe, what we saw yesterday.
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and that red sox double header. you and i both are not big fans of the new rule where double headers are both seven innings. the games are seven rather than nine innings, unless, of course, your team is on the winning side of them. yesterday, they were not. and they got swept. and we've come crashing back to earth after our hot start. let's remember, today is the 11:00 a.m. patriots day, first pitch, their third game in 24 hours. let us hope we can have a breakthrough akin to the berlin wall. >> of course, so what you're saying is, it is possible for the red sox to lose three games in 24 hours? >> if any team can do it, joe, it's the boston red sox. >> of course, we say this after going through an incredible nine-game winning streak, true boston red sox fans. and you know, speaking of cultural exchanges, eddie, we
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need to have our own cultural exchange. i will bring you to a boston red sox game this summer and what would you do? take me to a southern miss game? i mean, i don't know if going to a princeton-like dining club would be quite the same. what do we do? i'll take you to a morehouse college homecoming. >> i love that! >> we'll have a blast! >> i love that. >> i'll take you all on a three-day meditation where no one talks. coming up, one of our next guests says, by the way, those exist and they're wonderful for the mind. america's forever war in afghanistan isn't really over, despite president biden's promise to withdraw troops later this year. it's just entering a new phase. richard haas joins us ahead on "morning joe" with more on that. >> do you think i could go three days without talking? >> nope. >> i'm thinking i might --
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>> plus, a check-in with the nation's doctor, when u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy joins the conversation. we're back in just a moment. we're back in just a moment.
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the way you get rid of those restrictions is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly and as expeditiously as possible, because when that happens, for absolutely certain, you're going to see the level of virus in the community go down and down and
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down to the point where you would not have to have those public health restrictions. so it's almost paradoxical that on the one hand, they want to be relieved of the restrictions, but on the other hand, they don't want to get vaccinated. it just almost doesn't make any sense. >> almost. paradoxical. >> it just doesn't make any sense. >> that's when i sit on the couch eating dreamland ribs all day and complain about gaining weight. and you say, why don't you walk around the block? and i ask, can i take my ribs with me? so that's almost paradoxical. and again, all the complaining about -- i don't want to wear a mask -- but, you're not taking the vaccine. >> come on. >> okay. >> dr. anthony fauci, when asked about the claims why some on the right, that their freedoms have been stripped because of the recommended public restrictions that keep them safe from getting the coronavirus and dying. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, april 19th.
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with us, we have chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early," kasie hunt is with us, an msnbc contributor erin haynes is with us, and donny deutsch is with us, as well. good to have you all onboard this hour. >> erin, let's talk about the chauvin trial. obviously, the jury, this is going to go to the jury very soon. and i suspect much of america, when that happens, will be holding their breath. what do you expect? what should we expect? >> we are at a very tense moment, joe, with this chauvin trial wrapping up and headed to the jury. obviously, these kinds of cases, it's very hard to see officer accountability in a court of law. hard to get charges for officers, from a grand jury.
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harder, still, to get a conviction in those charges and harder still to get, you know, a sentence that many people see as kind of commensurate with the crime that those officers are charged with. and so i think that that is what a lot of americans, black americans in particular, are looking at. and for this case in particular, which so much of the country felt was so egregious. you have people taking to the streets in the midst of a pandemic to protest what happened to george floyd last summer. and so, you know, the calls for justice have been coming not just from black americans, but really for much of the country that really saw this than more than a tragedy, they did see it as a crime. so whether or not derek chauvin is hold accountable, you know, does have ramifications that will reverberate not just in minneapolis, but really across the country and those ramifications were only exacerbated by the killing of
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20-year-old daunte wright in brooklyn center. but really, just the idea that the unrelenting killing of unarmed black americans by law enforcement has happened, even as the derek chauvin trial has gone on in these past three weeks. >> kasie hunt, i'm curious on the hill, have you heard any republicans talk about working with democrats on bipartisan legislation to address these issues? obviously, the derek chauvin trial is in front of us right now, but my gosh, this is something that we've been talking about, reporting on, year after year after year from eric gardner and trayvon, to the tragedy in north charleston to freddie gray in baltimore and even a spate of shootings over the past several weeks. have there been any republicans, have there been conservatives that have been stepping up,
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talking about this, talking about bipartisan legislation? or has it just been democrats? >> well, joe, i think that you did see some people step out and talk about this in the wake of the george floyd killing. the country was absolutely convulsed by what happened and frankly horrified. and you saw senator tim scott, who is, of course, a republican, start talking to some of his colleagues about figuring out how to do something about this problem. but democrats looked at it, they passed bill in the house. they said, this doesn't go nearly far enough. you're trying to say that this is a solution when it's not. and so we ended up moving forward on nothing at all. and now democrats control both chambers of congress and the question is, you know, what are they going to do about this. there's not a lot they can do in the senate, as long as the filibuster remains in place. and, you know, i think that some republicans aren't going to -- even the ones that wanted to
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talk about this before may be less willing to do it now, because this is potentially such a fraught issue in the midterm election. so i think everyone would do well to remember just how we all felt in the wake of george floyd's death, watching that video, the nearly nine minutes of that, and how incredibly disturbing it was and how difficult and traumatic it was for black americans, especially, who have had to grapple with this in such a personal way, but at the moment, joe, i just don't see a way in which there is a compromise going forward on this. >> two far right republican lawmakers are distancing themselves from controversial details of the new america first caucus. it comes after a draft of the caucus initiatives was leaked last week, which called for the protection of, quote, angelo
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saxon political transitions. paul gosar and marjorie taylor greene of georgia both claim to have not to have read the seven-page tract. greene says she will not launch the caucus. republicans leaders were quick to denounce the formation of the caucus, including liz cheney who tweeted that republicans teach our children the values of decency and moral courage. kevin mccarthy tweeted, the republican party is the party of lincoln and the party of more opportunity for all americanses, not nativist dog whistles. former republican house speaker john boehner had this reaction. >> i have no idea how this even showed up. i wouldn't call it mainstream in our party, but i can tell you this so-called america first caucus is one of the nuttiest things i've ever seen. >> that's saying an awful lot
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coming from john boehner, who's heard a lot of nutty things through the years. so, i'm not exactly sure what to take out of this, peter baker. obviously, we can all be horrified and should be horrified by the drafting of this document. and we can focus on the fact that the entire republican party seemed to finally be or most republicans seem to finally be repulsed by this anglo-saxon caucus as a step too far. >> this is part of the struggle that the republican party is having right now, to find its own identity in a country that is changing demographically at a rapid pace, right? you saw this the other night with the fox news stuff, tucker carlson talking about replacement theory. you see this all the time in the
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trump world where they double down on a base that rep sents immigration, resents, you know, the changes that they're seeing in the communities around them. so for kevin mccarthy and republican leaders who want to expand, you know, the coalition, to expand the old big tent theater under reagan and previous republicans, this is a step backward. i think you're right, it's probably good to note and good to see so many republicans say flat-out that this is not what we stand for. but for right now, i think for a party that has relied so heavily on, you know, on a dwindling base of americans who, you know, at a time of demographic change, who want to reach out at least in theory to different groups, this doesn't help at all. >> it doesn't help at all. and donny, this goes to a bigger problem that we have, that our political culture has.
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jon meacham has talked about the duopoly that has controlled american politics for 160 years now. republicans and democrats have owned the political system. there is no parallel in the history of democratic nations, representative nations. and you've got two parties who put up their leaders for the general election and they get the most extreme elements of their own side, because such a small number of people vote in these primaries. and these people, and if we want to just focus on the republicans here, these republicans are actually rewarded for being extreme in the primaries, because only, you know, one out of three republicans, one out of three democrats will vote in most primaries. and also, the most extreme
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voices since january the 6th, since the 1/6 insurrection, are the ones who are raising the most money. and they're bringing in money, hand over fist. so notoriety, national political notoriety, even calling for the destruction, the overturning of an american election, in this extreme environment, where extremism is rewarded, donny, this actually is seen as a positive for people to come into congress, not do any legislative work, not work with the other side, but just say the most extreme comments. and, you know, if you're josh hawley, you know, call for an insurrection where people get killed. call for overturning, you know,
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85 million votes. and he's rewarded. ted cruz, who's also an insurrectionist, rewarded. that's where we are. and i'm wondering, what do we do to move past this? what reforms can be passed? >> republicans have a megaphone problem compared to the democrats. the democrats' megaphone is frankly about issues and about covid relief and about infrastructure. and about making corporations pay a little bit more money and evening out the playing field a little bit. as you point out, the republicans' megaphone is nothing but these harsh, extreme, dog whistle, anglo-saxon, let's all unite together under one white blanket. and i say that figuratively. it's a death nell for the republicans. as long as the republican party faces behind those megaphones.
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marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz, they lose. they lose in a general election. it's that simple. so it's going to take a transformational figure. you know, one guy that is actually doing what i'll call the two-step is desantis of florida. he is an extremist in certain ways, yet since he's gotten elected, he's had a lot of outreach in the african-american community and he's doing a lot of moderate things where he's grumbling a little bit to get some of the megaphone. but when you look at some of the things, save his stance on covid, he's had some pretty moderate progressive positions underneaths that kind of rawr, rawr, rawr. and he's raising a ton of money more than anybody else. so desantis is not going crazy right, he's giving them enough red meat, but when you look at what he's done in office, he's probably a lot more middle of the road. that will be the formula going forward, but right now the republicans have that megaphone problem and that their megaphone
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is nothing but that harsh noise and related to issues they care about at their kitchen tables. >> and kasie, i had a conversation with sean patrick maloney on friday. sean and i are good friends, by the way. and we had a good laugh on the phone afterwards. and he said, i totally get what you're saying, and i told him, i totally get what you're saying. it was such a warm and fuzzy conversation we had. >> it actually kind of was. >> but obviously, what works in aoc's district won't work in somebody else's district in a moderate virgin district and vice versa. so one size does not fit all. but out of that conversation came a lot of tweets. and one person who tweeted at me was a veteran reporter who said, don't worry about it, joe. the 2022 election is going to be
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run and going to be shaped by infrastructure, gun safety laws, and covid relief bills. and the booming economy. i wish that were the case. but look at 2020. facts didn't matter in 2020. and i'm just curious, do you have any reason to believe that we're not going to have an election in 2022 that once again is not shaped by the most extreme voices and the most outrageous claims? >> well, joe, i didn't get a chance to hear your private conversation with sean patrick maloney. of course, i saw your conversation here on the show. but if your conversation behind the scenes is anything like the ones i'm having with democrats, they all know it's going to be a tough road for them in 2022. they all know what the risks are and, you know, the biden team, i think, is served well, and if you think about donny's
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megaphone idea here and those issues that you just listed, yes, they are the things that democrats want to be talking about. and by and large, president biden has done a good job of keeping that at the forefront. the challenge is going to be kind of the rest of the group. and so far, having control of the white house has largely helped them keep people in line. and the white house has been very careful about trying to make sure that they bring whatever voices on their left, that they think may challenge them going forward into the fold, to make it so that when we hit these difficult periods, they have a little bit of capital to turn around and say, we don't want to be talking about this issue this way, we're worried about winning districts in rural illinois or the chicago suburbs or the philadelphia suburbs or the atlanta suburbs, because those are the majority making districts. but there's no question here, as you pointed out when you were talking to the congressmen, they
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did not perform as well as everyone assumed that we would in 2020. they thought that they were going to do better in the house, do better in the senate, and they didn't, because a lot of low-propensity voters showed up and voted for donald trump. it may be enough of an advantage without trump on the ballot, maybe they don't show up and things look a little bit more normal, but the party in power almost always loses seats in 2022. and the risky areas for them are these very issues that you outline. guns, policing and other things. >> it is really hard, mika, to figure out how democrats beat history. i mean, the historical trends are overwhelmingly breaking the republicans' way in the 2022 elections. >> well, yesterday, the government announced that half of the u.s. adult population has received at least one dose of the covid-19 vaccine. the cdc reported that almost 130
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million people 18 and older have started the vaccine regimen and almost 84 million adults are fully vaccinated. joining us now, the surgeon general of the united states, dr. vivek murthy. and dr. murthy, this is an amazing milestone. great news. i know of people in my own circle across the country who can't get the vaccine. so there is still work to be done. >> there is an incredibly important moment for us. i'll tell you, a little more than a year ago, in the spring of 2020, when many of us were realizing how bad this pandemic might get, we realized that a vaccine would be the solution that we needed. but to know that a year from that time, we would be where we are now, with multiple effective vaccines, with millions of people having received them, and now on april 19th, with every adult, every person above the
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age of 16 eligible to receive a vaccine, that's truly a milestone. and it matters, because, number one, we know a vaccine is a key to turning this pandemic around. the second which we don't talk about very often is that access is tied to confidence. the more people that have access to a vaccine, the more they get vaccinated, the more they see people around them getting vaccinated and that increases their confidence in getting vaccinated. but to do this, mika, we're going to have to continue to not only, you know, get vaccinated ourselves, but turn around and ask our friends and family members if they have a plan to get vaccinated and help them get the information they need, by making an appointment to get that vaccine. that's how we turn this pandemic around. >> i want to ask you some technical questions, but first, is there information about the j&j pause in their vaccine, which of course was a one-time dose, which was attractive on a number of levels to people who don't want to get two doses, but
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also for countries that are more difficult pertaining to the vaccine and getting an entire population vaccinated. is the pause going to continue and for how long? is that vaccine going to be deemed safe? >> mika, it's a good question. and i know it's on a lot of peoples minds. wherever these kind of pauses are announced, i know it raises questions for people. and that's absolutely understandable. but here's what's important to note. this pause was initiated because of a very small number of cases, six cases, at that time, of a rare but dangerous blood clot. and what's happened since the pause was announced last week is a series of investigations at the fda and cdc are launching into data that they've collected, an advisory committee and immunization practices met last week and they will likely meet soon. and in between, they've worked hard to talk to doctors and nurses across the country to help them understand what to look for and how to treat this rare condition. i think we will see a decision
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very soon. but the key for people to understand, if you had the j&j vaccine already, is that the vast, vast majority of people who got that vaccine are going to be just fine. the second thing to realize is that this pause was connected to the j&j vaccine, but not to the pfizer and moderna vaccines. more than 120 million people have received those vaccines. the safety profile remains strong. so if you have an appointment to get those vaccines, please keep those, because, again, the key to turning covid-19 around is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. >> let's talk about it. if you have an appointment, please keep it. what are the realities around that. how do you set the stage for keeping your appointment? how long after having covid can you get a vaccine? should you put off your appointment if you've had covid in the past month or two? and secondly, should you expect side effects? i hear a lot of people talking about them, but perhaps hearing from you about the potential side effects and whether or not
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they're okay to have? >> these are such important questions, mika. in particular, because when we talk to people who have concerns or questions about the vaccines, side effects are often, you know, among their key questions. let's talk about that. the vast majority of people who get the vaccine actually won't feel anything. they'll feel fine. some people will have what are called mild flu-like symptoms. they may feel achy, may have a low-grade temperature, may feel fatigued after their vaccine. when i got my vaccine, for example, i felt fine after the first shot, a little soreness in the arm. after the second shot, for about 12 to 18 hours, i felt tired, i felt like maybe i felt like i had a low-grade temperature and after that i felt okay. overall, these are the typical symptoms. none of them have lasting side effects and they go away after a short period of time. what they're left with is protection. and even those symptoms, those flu-like symptoms are evidence is that your body is working hard to produce the antibodies that ultimately protect you.
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so that's why, again, when we look at this vaccine and how many people have gotten. keep in mind, nearly 200 million shots have been delivered and administered to people in the united states alone. and with all of that experience, we're still seeing a really strong safety protocol for the pfizer and moderna vaccine. so that should make us feel good. it should also ultimately make us feel good, mika, that the safety system is working for us. even with this small signal with j&j, the system jumped into action to investigate further, because we want people to have confidence that the vaccines that are being recommended to them are both safe and effective. >> but if you have an appointment and you've had covid, should you cancel that appointment and wait? >> great question. so if you've had covid, you should still get vaccinated, number one. if you have covid right now, for example, and you're actively having symptoms, you should wait for those symptoms to resolve usually after about 10 to 14 days. and if you're feeling well after
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that, you can get vaccinated. you do not need to wait 90 days after your vaccine, after your infection, to get vaccinated. and also, you do not have to worry that because you are sick, that somehow the vaccine is going to have an adverse effect on you. that's not the cause. in fact, we know that the immunity, the protection you get from the vaccine, mika, is more robust han the protection you get from natural infection. that's actually why we want people to get the vaccine, regardless of whether they've been infected or not. >> okay. u.s. surgeon general, dr. vivek murthy, thank you so much. again, as of today, all states have opened their vaccine eligibility to all eligible adults. so get on the calendar. let's get back to the conversation we were just having on the most extreme voices of the parties getting the most attention. here is former president george w. bush's message about the state of modern-day
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conservatism. >> do you believe there are compassionate conservatives today? >> absolutely. i'm one. and i think there are a lot. the problem is with an angry society, it's hard to punch through with compassion. >> is it an angry society or is it certain leaders and people who have stoked that anger and fear? >> i think that's an interesting question. i'm a big leadership guy, so therefore i think maybe, maybe the latter part of your question is true, that people stoke anger in order to advance their apolitical agenda. i do believe there is a more -- well, my dad spoke of a kinder and gentler, and he truly believed it. and i believed in a unifier, not divider. and they just can't be empty slogans. you have to believe it in order for it to be credible. i think that, yes, it's going to require leadership to help heal,
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heal wounds. >> you know, peter, i'm just very -- this is not asking you, peter baker this as a reporter, i'm just curious about your observations through the years. because i can tell you mine. president bush talked about angry leaders. i found more often than not are angry people. i found more often than not that it's angry leaders, angry voices on now podcasts, talk radio, cable news, because, i mean, i'm surrounded, my life, day and night, day and night, by trump supporters. in fact, i probably see nine trump supporters every day for every one biden supporter i see. and i can tell you, in their personal lives, and they know how i feel about donald trump. they're not angry. when i was on the upper west side and was considered a
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right-wing republican, i mean, i was around -- the ratios were opposite. and my god, people on the upper west side could not have been kinder to me. i just -- i don't -- i don't see this anger in people's lives for the most part unless they're getting fired up by what they see on tv, by what they're reading on the internet, what they're hearing on a podcast, what they're seeing on cable news, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. really, there's a huge disconnect from what i've seen for my entire adult life. >> yeah, look, it's an angry environment in which people are living right now, right? obviously, through the fragmentation of the media, through politics, through gerrymandering, through some of the leadership that was found, you know, advantage in stoking anger, through talk radio and social media. all of these things conspire, in effect, to create an angry
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environment, in which americans live. if americans themselves didn't respond to it, there wouldn't be oxygen for it. but they do respond to it. they are -- you know, it is a cycle, in effect. leadership stokes anger and the anger from the people respond to it, you know, fires up the leadership, because they see a political benefit if continuing to cater to it, right? if they didn't respond and we didn't respond as people, there wouldn't be any room for the people who stoke anger. but this is an historical trend in our country. we've had people like that over the decades and centuries at this point who took advantage of american grievance and sought to tap into it, either to affect positive change or to, you know, take advantage politically for their own agendas. and i think that it's hard to see how that burns itself out at this point.
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incendiary moment that was culminating on january 6th with that attack on the capitol. by leadership, i include people who are active with this, and media, and commentators and culture figures in our society. >> well, erin, you look over the past four, five years, you look at what's happening with attacks on asian americans, that just seem to continue to happen every day. you look at what donald trump said, telling women of color who are members of congress, go home. like, go back to where you came from, basically. those dog whistles, bull horns, actually, have been shouted from the rooftops for the past four the five years, especially. there is nothing latent about it.
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there's nothing subtle about it. and we're seeing, actually, the ugly harvest of that every day now. >> we are, joe. and frankly, there's not much that is extreme about it. listen, the reality is, so many of the voters that i spoke to in 2020, that, you know, even in former president trump's defeat, he got more votes than he got in 2016. and what many of those voters said was, maybe they didn't like some of the former president's rhetoric, but they were absolutely onboard with a lot of the agenda. and that agenda resurfaced last week with those pillars that were outlined in the first america caucus, which echoed much of former president trump's agenda. and so while he is out of office, his ideas are absolutely not out of office. and it is because there is still a significant portion of americans, many of them republicans, when still subscribe to a lot of that
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agenda. and at the top of that agenda was the continued false threat of the need to protect election integrity at the ballot box. so while you had people like kevin mccarthy and liz cheney denouncing the first america caucus, you still see at the state level voter suppression efforts sweeping through republican-led states and statehouses. so this is -- these are mainstream ideas, that were once seen as fringe, but really, you know, we're continuing to ask, because we know kind of these ideas have been around for a while. but the question is, you know, really, who are we as a country, a hundred days out from this january 6th insurrection and looking ahead to the first hundred days of this new administration. >> right, erin haynes, thank you very much. and peter baker, thank you, as
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well, for your reporting this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," richard haas says it is wrong to pull u.s. troops out of afghanistan, but that we can minimize the damage. he'll explain that, next on "morning joe." "morning joe." ♪♪ tex-mex. tex-mex. ♪♪ termites. go back up! hang on! i am hanging on. don't mess up your deck with tex-mex. terminix.
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on my orders, the united states military has begun strikes against al qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the taliban regime in afghanistan. >> last year, we removed 10,000 u.s. troops from afghanistan. another 23,000 will leave by the end of the summer. after that, reductions will continue at steady pace with more and more of our troops coming home. and as our coalition agreed, by the end of 2014, the aghans will be fully responsible for the security of their country.
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>> my original instinct was to pull out, but all of my life, i've heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk. >> i'm now the fourth united states president to preside over american troop presence in afghanistan. two republicans, two democrats. i will not pass this responsibility on to a fifth. >> president joe biden is pulling all u.s. troops from afghanistan by september 11th. the 20th anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks that led to u.s. military intervention in that country. that decision ran counter to the recommendations of his top military commanders, who said it could undermine security in the country. joining us now, president of the council on foreign relations, richard haas, and staff where you are for the new yorker, dexter filkins. joe, you may take it away now as
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you tap the table. i think you need to say something. go ahead. it's all right. >> i'm a little frustrated. >> why? >> with the decision. >> that's okay. it's been made. >> well, dexter -- >> yes, it is. >> richard haas is going to tell us how we can live with it. >> and that's great. dexter, so, i think about you often and what -- the number of times you've been on our show. i remember you talking about how terrible things were in iraq in '07, '08. i remember you coming back on in 2010, saying you didn't even recognize the country, because there had been, things had become so much more stable, it was actually jarring. america then left. american troops then left overnight, iraq, and then isis followed. you've been going into afghanistan since the 1990s,
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haven't you? oh, you have, and you're lamenting that fact. so do you fear the same thing could happen in afghanistan, with the u.s. presence leaving, that we could have a vacuum and in that vacuum, we could see terrible things grow out of that vacuum? >> i'll be surprised if it doesn't happen that way. you know, i was just there in january. the taliban are already in the capitol. they're occupying neighborhoods inside kabul. they are already inside the gates. and i, you know, i think there's 7,000 american and nato troops there now. they're mostly doing training missions, you know, training the afghan forces, but, when they pull out, i will be -- let's say i'll be very, very surprised if the government can hold together
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for very long. i don't expect it. i'm happy to be wrong on this one, but i -- i would not be surprised at all if it all came apart very quickly. >> dexter, who has the most to lose? who do you most fear will suffer if that happens? >> well, i think that's an easiest one. half the population have gained the most. when i started going there in the 90s when the taliban was in the government, girls were not allowed to go to school, at all, like zero. and, you know, now it's -- i mean, now it's just made leaps and bounds. so it's easy to kind of -- it's easy to say, yeah, we've failed, we haven't accomplished anything, but that just isn't true. and particularly with regard to women, they're everywhere. they're in the parliament, they're doctors, they're ph.ds, it's transformed society. and i think it's they -- it's the women who are more worried
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than anyone else. >> and richard haas, it is a lie, when people say that our soldiers and our marines and our sailors and our airmen have failed over there. they have not failed. they've brought a dramatic change to that country over the past 20 years, especially for women who now are the very ones who we assured them, we would be there until they would be safe. we assured them to go to school. we assured them to get involved in politics. we assured them that we would protect them against the most extreme elements and as dexter says, and any other observer now says, those are the very women who will most likely suffer the worst once we leave. >> look, what you're saying and what dexter said is unfortunately true. you know, so we succeeded to some extent in afghanistan, but we've not succeeded in making
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the government self-sufficient. the reason is the ethnic base and tenacity of the taliban is also an extraordinarily divided and conservative society. i first went there in '78, joe. and in some ways, afghanistan has changed a lot, and in some ways, not at all. and history shows, it's almost impossible to defeat a group such as the taliban if they enjoy the advantages of a sanctuary in some third country. that's the case here. this is -- we're in a tough situation. it's the reason i was against the president's decision, but he's made it. and that's why i think there's two things we really need to do. one is to continue to give aid to this government. it's one thing to pull out troops, but another not to give it aid. it's a long shot, but i would put pressure on the regional countries. whether it's china, iran, pakistan, they've got to worry about drugs from pakistan, they
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worry about massive refugee flows. china is worried about terrorism. so i would convene a region mall grouping to put some pressure on the taliban. it's a long shot, but i think it's our best shot. >> richard, let's talk about what america has learned over the past 20 years, in fighting these wars. we learned, certainly, we learned in syria about the strength of a limited footprint, a sustainable presence, and the ability not to win a war in syria, but to push back on isis pop to push back on turkey. to push back on iran. to push back on russia, and to push back on assad at the same time. these people that are saying, oh, we've got to leave, we're never going to win this war, are actually presenting a false choice, sometimes, as in germany, as in korea, and as it could have been in afghanistan, we could have had a very limited
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presence there. and while we could have not won the war, we could have stopped a lot of terrible things from happening, just by that limited presence. >> again, at the risk of agreeing with you too much in the morning, you're right there. look, sometimes in foreign policy, what's really important is what you try to avert. not what you try to accomplish. and averting the idea that afghanistan can be taken over by the taliban seems to me an achievable goal at a minimum cost. i think in some of the places you mentioned like iraq and afghanistan, we overreached. we try to transform these societies. we try to take on too much. i think the danger now, joe, is in some of these places, we may end up underreaching. essentially saying, well, we can't bring peace or a military victory. but as you say, that was never the definition of success. we need to have modest definitions of success with
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modest means towards those ends. and if we're modest in our ames and modest in our means, i think we can avoid the worst. and in some of these situations, that might be enough. >> yeah, and for what it's worth, i was opposed to the increase in troops when the generals were pushing barack obama to send a large number of troops into afghanistan, because as i said, it's not going to bring us the results that the generals are promising. and it hasn't. the generals are overpromised for 20 years, but dexter, as the old saying goes, and it actually happens to be one of the final lines in tennet, sometimes the most important thing to achieve is the bomb that doesn't go off. the tragedy that is averted. and in this case, that may have been what our troops have been
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doing in afghanistan all these years. >> yeah. you know, i really -- you mentioned 2011 at the top there. and that was of course when president obama decided to go to zero in iraq. and it was -- you know, they're very different countries. very different. but that's what i'm worried about. if you remember there, we went to zero, we pulled out, we came home, and within three years, we had isis taking over, you know, a third of iraq. and i -- i just -- you know, i just -- i hope that doesn't happen here in afghanistan. where we're basically like opening the door to the taliban. >> you know, dexter, i was reading another article in "the new yorker" about the tragic story of a cease-fire, a three-day cease-fire, where you actually had members of the government, the taliban going back to their home communities, hugging each other. the people chanting, we want
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peace. and in that, in that really magical weekend for the afghan people, that's where isis struck. and set off a bomb that killed 20 to 25 members of the taliban during this cease-fire when they were actually trying to come together for a muslim holiday with their enemies. how great is the risk of s.i.d.s. expanding their reach in afghanistan once we leave? >> they're definitely there. and you know, the taliban and isis were fighting each other. they have been. but i think the real danger here is the taliban. i mean, they're just very strong, they've taken over a lot of the country. and i think they see it now. i think that they smell blood.
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and again, i will be amazed if the government, if the national government based in kabul can hold together for very long after we leave. i hope they can, but i think the danger is that looking way back to when the soviet union pulled out in 1989, that country imploded into a terrible civil war and you had all kinds of groups. and in this case, i think, that's my fear. you're going to have the taliban, you'll have chaos, you'll have isis. and it will be open season again for any group in the world that wants to go there. >> dexter filkins -- >> and mika, especially, hope season against women. >> yeah. and richard haas, thank you both very much for being on this morning. coming up, roger bennett's beat is front page news this morning for "the new york times." the creation of a super league that has completely transformed global soccer competition
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overnight. that story and roger are next on "morning joe." and roger are nen "morning joe." vo: president biden's bold new jobs plan - it rebuilds our country and tackles climate change with clean energy jobs. biden: the american jobs plan will lead to a transformational progress in our effort to tackle climate change with american jobs and american ingenuity. vo: this is our opportunity - our moment to fight climate change and build back better. biden: it's big, yes. it's bold, yes.
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i just gotta ask, we have the most important mayor's race in new york city in the last 50 years, maybe 100 years. i don't know. it's really important for a city that just keeps losing residents, keeps losing businesses. i have seen polls. andrew yang -- i have seen him ahead in a lot of polls. you and i could do a better job running new york city than andrew yang, no offense, andrew yang. but this is a problem, isn't it? what's going on in that race? >> yeah. i love the city, joe. new york is in my blood. we're all so concerned. new york is at a tipping point. if new york goes too hard left -- the city is doomed.
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as you said, taxes continue to rise. it's no longer a place that makes sense for business. businesses are losing. we lose. new york has to be a top-down city. ray mcguire, a former city group guy, african-american, moderate voice, would be a great voice for new york. he has a shot. andrew yang and some of the more extreme candidates, he is going to push new york in the wrong direction. we saw with amazon and aoc when they got ahold of it. killed amazon, which would have invented a new city. that kind of thinking, that pushes the amazon or potential amazons away, we are in trouble. it's a real tipping point for new york. >> i'm not talking about politics. new york is one of the most progressive cities in america. if new york gets a progressive mayor, that's fine. it lines up with new york city. you want that mayor to be
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competent. you want them to know what they are actually doing. >> yeah. >> i actually think it's the hardest political job in america. and to have a political neophyte who ran for president with some -- it's one thing running for president and putting some quirky ideas out there and getting some media attention. but, man, when you are running new york city, again, i'm not talking ideology. i'm talking competence to quote michael dukakis. that's my biggest concern right now. i just hope whoever wins knows what they're doing in new york city, whether moderate or whether progressive. >> yeah. look, we live in a media echo chamber, which we were talking about earlier. the reason andrew yang is ahead is because he has name recognition. we saw the last time somebody with the most name recognition
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won a race, it was donald trump. i'm progressive. i'm worried about the city going too hard left. we need someone who is aware of how important business is to the city. i know i'm going to take a lot of crap for this. >> i'm sure your valet and driver and the person who -- the pilot of your helicopter and the people that clean your street, i think -- you have two pilots. i'm sure they agree with you. >> i stuck my chin so far out. boom. >> you put your jaw out there, my friend. thank you so much. it is a progressive city. in a move that could upend global soccer competition, 12 of europe's top clubs yesterday announced they have agreed to form the so-called super league.
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the closed league initiative has been rebuked by fifa and would rival the champions league with plans to hold midweek matches. european soccer's governing body released a statement condemning it and warned the players could be kicked out of domestic competition and face legal action. american investment bank jp morgan is helping fund the new league. clubs want to start, quote, as soon as possible. >> let's bring in co-host of "men in blazers" roger bennett. roger, the rich get richer. the poor get poorer. tell me this about this super league. is this thing going to get off the ground? is fifa going to crush it in time? >> it's been a historic, harrowing, personally
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devastating 24 hours for global football. 12 of the biggest teams signing up for a breakaway super league funded by jp morgan. six from england, three from italy, three from spain. it's a bit like if duke, north carolina, gonzaga, kansas decided to break away from march madness and say, we want guaranteed participation every single year. it's an enormous decision forced by american owners which will transform european soccer, could possibly destroy the premiere league, which will be devastating for britain. all we have left was the royal family, downton abbey, the tweed industry and the premiere league. none of those are in great shape right now. >> do you think that fifa could step in and sanction these players in a way that would stop them from playing in domestic leagues and possibly stop them from playing in the world cup? >> it's a week where this will
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play out. it's wheels within wheels. i think the american owners who have driven this -- it's the american owners of the premiere league teams, liverpool, arsenal, manchester united. you shouldn't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. they have lost the connection and empathy for the cities, the fan base in those cities, people who have watched the club for generations. this afternoon, liverpool, who are owned by boston red sox fenway sports group play a game at home. the fans have pulled their flags from across the city. it's a backlash the like of which american sports fans -- american sports treat it like, move from st. louis to l.a., i own it, who cares. it's different in england. >> speaking of english soccer,
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let's talk about one of the most democratic of all competitions in the world, and that is the fa cup. i love the fa cup. i love everything about it. i just wish liverpool would win once in a while. they haven't. talk about this past weekend, some good matches. >> it's hard to look at action. it's like getting your wedding video out when you just got divorced. football was back. fa cup semifinal day. that's an american goalkeeper, going non-fungible. city, go for quadruple. on this day, worse than jake paul. chelsea move on. there was premiere action. shall we look at it? >> just for old times.
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>> look at this. goals of swaggering collective wonder. look at this. rashford burns down the wing. this gentleman is an incredible human being. not sure what we are looking at but god love. here he comes. come on, this is a gentleman, by the way, who has led a social protest in england to make sure the children of england are fed during their covid. an incredible kid. look at that. wizard fill from bruno fernandez. i have never seen anything like this. it's the coolest thing. the other big game, everton host totten ham. clash between two dreaming teams. everton, critical. scoring like george michael's
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careless whisper. six seconds later, everton defenders unfurl. decided to do this rather than his job. he headed it into his teammate's pillowy buttocks. that was it. 2-2. life is slow dying, we can't have nice things. >> you can't have nice things. >> what just happened? >> roger is not well. he is down. >> it's been a tough day. honestly, i tell you what's happened. it's like a scene from the old show "v" where we welcome the aliens to own the football teams and they eat the english people. it's been a tough time. >> we're going to be tuning in for "the men in blazers." i don't know what's going to happen with him. >> he is going to medicate.
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>> roger, i hope you are okay. take care of yourself. >> we will be thinking of you. >> godspeed. up next, president biden calls the situation at the southern border a crisis as he explains his decision to raise the cap on the number of refugees admitted to the united states. closing arguments get underway today in the derek chauvin trial. the city of minneapolis is bracing for a verdict. also ahead, a former fedex employee able to purchase guns he then used to kill eight people despite an official warning about his mental health. indiana has so-called red flag law. why didn't it work in this case? we kick off the next hour with the progress on the vaccine front.
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brad paisley is ready for live concerts again. are you? he is urging his fans to get vaccinated so that can happen. a lot of the country is heeding that message in some way, shape or form. yesterday, the government announced that half of u.s. adult population has received at least one dose of the covid-19 vaccine. almost 130 million people 18 and older have started the vaccine
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regimen. about 32.5% of the population are vaccinated. we are getting there. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, april 19th. with us we have white house reporter jonathan lemire, washington anchor for bbc world news american, cattie kay, eddie glaud, junior and victoria defrancisco. we begin with minneapolis and the country on edge as a verdict in the murder trial of former police officer derek chauvin could come this week. closing arguments are set to begin today. the prosecution and defense will make their final cases to the jury before it is sequestered for deliberations. chauvin faces three charges in the death of george floyd, second degree murder, third degree murder and second degree
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manslaughter. minneapolis is bracing for potential unrest as the city reckons with another shooting of an unarmed black man. there have been protests every day since the shooting of daunte wright. in new york, police officers have been told that they cannot take off any unscheduled days, starting today, until further notice. in philly, more than 1,000 national guard troops have been activated. let's bring in former member of president obama's task force on 21st century policing, sedrick alexander. he was public safety director in georgia. we are happy to announce he is now an msnbc law enforcement analyst. we thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you so much. what are you expecting this week? >> it's going to be an interesting week. it's going to be fast moving as
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well. if we consider everything that's going on in the country at this moment, we're going to begin to hear the closing arguments today, i think a lot of people are not sure which way this trial could potentially go or the outcome could go. it's one of the weeks and days you just tie on your seat belt and get ready. we're going to take a ride across this country during these closing arguments. people are going to be waiting. we will see. >> a lot of -- we have seen time and again, police officers charged in the killing of black men. we have seen juries do what juries often do, and that is give the benefit of the doubt to a police officer, whether the victim is white or black or hispanic. in this case, obviously, america saw what happened over 9 1/2, 10
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minutes. do you expect a different verdict this week than what we have seen in the past, whether it's come out of baltimore or north charleston or even on staten island? >> well, i think -- it's kind of hard to tell. if we consider the past history of police officers being convicted for the killing of black men in this country -- let's be frank about it, in many cases there have been very few convictions at all, overall. but i think we're at a place in this country at this very moment where people are recognizing something here is very much wrong. we have certainly had a lot of opinion from people in the public and across this country. the real opinion is going to be decided today or this week, i should say, by a jury of chauvin's peers. i don't know what this outcome is going to be. there'sccording to
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the public. it's the jury that will decide. if we look at history, it's not -- it is not on the side of those who feel the most oppressed by police. we have to fix that. we need public safety. we need good public safety. >> yeah. eddie, of course, if we look at the past, if we look at past verdicts when police officers are standing trial, then there's not reason to believe, there's not good reason to believe that derek chauvin will be convicted, that the jury will come down with a guilty verdict. that said, if you look at the fact that so many of his fellow police officers and police experts actually testified against him, there's reason to believe that maybe this time may be different. what are your thoughts going
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into this week where, my gosh, over the next few days, we should know what that verdict is going to be in a case that transfixed america for over a year? >> yes, joe. look, i'm not sure. i think -- i agree to the extent to which the prosecution has put on an extraordinarily strong case. the evidence is clear. the fellow officers who testified against chauvin would suggest that the jury will come back with a guilty verdict on all three counts in some ways. the defense was playing to a jury of one. that's all they need is one juror to have reasonable doubt, to hang this jury. we can't run ahead -- get ahead of our skis. we can't expect a closing argument on the part of the prosecution here that -- we need to put ourselves in a space to
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kind of prepare for what will come down the pike. we have this extraordinary national debate, joe, about the form of policing. whatever the decision will be in the trial, we have to address how police engage in their work across the country. we still have a lot of work to do moving forward. >> that work has a lot to do with deescalation and what leads up to a shooting, especially in the case of daunte wright. look at every decision that was made before. there is room for improvement on many levels across the country. jonathan lemire, what is the white house thinking about this, preparing in any way? how connected are they to watching this verdict come down and being prepared to react? >> they have been watching it for weeks now. the white house from the podium, they are not going to weigh in on what they think should happen with the verdict. president biden is clear that he
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thought what happened to george floyd was a tragedy and this is a story that is told too often in communities -- in black households across the nation. there will be a federal response. national guard is being activated throughout the guard, not just in minnesota. the president and his team are going to be watching this very carefully. there could be -- they are expecting to hear from him as soon as the verdict is done or soon afterwards. prior to that, we saw him meet with leaders of the congressional black caucus last week in which he talked about the need to change the fundamental relationship between black americans and police officers in this country. this was a central focus of his presidential campaign after floyd's death. we have seen it happen too often since then in other moments where black men have died at the hands of white police officers. they are concerned there could be violence breaking out.
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they encourage protests. we should underscore, the majority of protests last year were peaceful. there were times, of course, where it did escalate into violence. i think you will see a coordinated federal response. they are talking to governors and mayors in big cities. a lot of focus on minneapolis, but throughout the nation, in case if there's a verdict, if there is some sort of outcry, outburst, the federal government will be quick to mobilize. an update on the mass shooting in indianapolis and the debate over gun reform, where it's going. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. "morning j. we'll be right back.
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we are following new developments this morning in the mass shooting that took place at a fedex facility in indianapolis last thursday. police say the 19-year-old gunman who previously worked at the facility legally bought the two assault rifles used in the attack despite red flag laws
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designed to prevent exactly such a purchase. in march of 2020, police seized a shotgun from then 18-year-old brandon scott hole after his mother raised alarms about his mental health. his mother raised alarms about his mental health. the gun that they took was not returned. according to police, in the months that followed, hole was able to legally purchase the two guns used in thursday's attack. they were bought in july and september of 2020. indiana's red flag law allows police to seize guns from people who show warning signs of violence. the law is intended to prevent people from purchasing or possessing a firearm if they are found by a judge to present an imminent risk to themselves or others. officials have not said whether a judge made a red flag ruling in hole's case. on friday, president biden spoke about this latest mass shooting.
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>> every single day, every single day there's a mass shooting in the united states if you count all those killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. it's a national embarrassment and must come to an end. >> victoria, we actually have right now a national consensus, an overwhelming national consensus on expanding background checks, universal background checks, background checks in private sales, background checks at gun shows, red flag laws. i could go down the list. it's an expanding consensus among americans. and yet, politicians in washington, d.c., specifically republicans in washington, d.c., have been working as much as they can to push back on any reasonable laws. even these red flag laws. some republicans are supporting
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those, but for some reason, things just don't seem to happen in washington, d.c. if there are ever any laws related to gun safety, is joe biden going to be able to do anything about that? are we going to have more people pushing back on common sense gun safety regulation? >> joe, i would argue that not only is there not going to be a pushback, but there's going to be a move in the other direction. yesterday afternoon here in austin, in the northwest part of the city, we saw another instance of an active shooter, a domestic violence dispute that spread out. every day we have gotten to the point where you have multiple incidents a week. it has become common. we no longer blink at it. that is what is so wrong. i do worry about what is going to be done, not just because of the defense being played on the part of the gun lobby, but here in the texas senate right now,
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we are seeing a lot of traction gained for having handguns carried without permit. we are going in the opposite direction. when i'm sitting here in austin and i'm seeing this legislation moving through, i feel very pessimistic at the thought that we're going to see some bold federal level moves. the gun rights folks are alive and well, not just playing defense but offense at the same time. >> we know -- i say this. it bears repeating. victoria is right. look at the extremes. these extremes push the agenda more than most republicans, most conservatives, most gun owners, even most members of the nra. you ask most members of the nra whether they support universal background checks, enhanced
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background checks, 60%, 70% say they do. you are in pensacola. my friends in pensacola who -- i say, first baptist church, started going hunting with their das when they were 5, 6, 7, they want universal background checks, red flag laws. they don't want terrorists to walk up and pick up any type of gun they want to pick up at gun shows. they want common sense gun safety laws, too. this isn't about gun owners. this isn't even about members of the nra. this is about those extreme 20% that are holding the rest of us hostage. >> literally. >> you know what part of the issue is, joe, is this. we have a large part of the american population that want to have gun regulation. we have seen the stats. we have seen the data.
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they want something done. if you notice inasmuch as -- that's what the majority of americans want. if you notice what happens is that that doesn't change at the ballot box. those same elected officials who are pushing -- are pushing away from gun regulation of any sort. they're still getting elected every year or every two years, every six years. what the data may say may be one thing, but what happens at the voting booth is something entirely different. i will tell you this. as being a former two-time police chief in this country, we have a real serious gun problem. my concern has always been as a chief twofold. one, the safety of the community in which i was responsible for protecting but also the safety of police officers who are out here bravely, boldly trying to
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do a great job and they were coming up against weaponry more powerful than what they had in their possession. that's a real issue. it's one thing for us to say, this is what the data says. we want gun control. yes, we want gun control, we want new legislation. but the american people are not acting out at the voter booth for change. that becomes the problem right there, joe. president biden calls the situation at the border a crisis. what that distinction means for the government's approach to immigration reform. next on "morning joe."
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president biden says he will raise the cap on the number of refugees admitted to the united states. the change came one day after he was criticized by democratic lawmakers for initially agreeing to keep the trump administration's historically low figure in place. biden explained the confusion on saturday when speaking with reporters. while doing so, notably called the situation at the southern border a crisis.
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>> katty, obviously, fear pushback from progressives, not just really progressives in the democratic party but a lot of democrats, a lot of other outside groups that caused the biden administration to reverse course quickly in about 24 hours. >> yeah. it was a rare moment in what has been an many press receively effective and efficient administration so far where the president and the white house were forced to do -- turn back on itself and as you say, joe, to do so very quickly. i have been speaking to human rights and refugee advocates over the last few weeks. they have been growing
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frustrated the white house hadn't raised this cap from the trump era. there was a massive amount of disappointment. you had dick durbin vocally critical of the president effectively, something he really hasn't bon so far, come out and say, say it ain't so, and refugee advocates saying this is not what america stands for. it's not what the president said he was going to do when he came into office and it's not what joe biden campaigned on. the interesting thing was the speed with which the white house changed its position, 24 hours. the fact that they made a misstep on this. they judged this one wrong. they seemed to think they could get away with keeping the levels the same because of the situation on the border. perhaps they didn't want to be in a position of being criticized for raising refugee limits when you have the situation on the border. it wasn't tolerable. this is not what america was seen to stand for.
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the trump administration had criticism for it. they didn't want to see joe biden be in the same bucket. >> jonathan lemire, give us a look behind the scenes of what happened over the 24 hours. >> certainly, joe. it was stunning how quick the reverse was. friday morning they put out the statement in terms of what the cap would be. they were adhering to trump era policies. there's been some dissent within the west wing to handle this, the best messaging. i will say over the weekend there was second guessing as to how this came out. they were reactive. they saw they were being torched from lawmakers, senator durbin, who have been positive of the administration, progressive activists on the left, liberals on social media with large followings, really tearing into the president and saying, this is a broken promise. this is not what you said would you do last year during the
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campaign. we saw a statement by the white house released under the name of the press secretary who blamed confusion and pointed the finger at the media for getting the number wrong. that's not the case. they did, in fact, set the number there. at the lower mark. now they will work to it. it should be clear that 62,500 number, they said, that won't be met. they don't think that is realistic. they sent out advisors on the sunday shows to clarify this, including jake sullivan who said refugees are in the air. the president is allowing those from the middle east and africa, some of the muslim majority countries that donald trump banned them, they are able to again. but acknowledged it would be a ramp up before they would eventually hit the mark the president had promised. this is being cited as a good news from activists. they feel like he has a long way to go. a final point, i was part of the reporters with the president over the weekend after his first round of golf in office. it's notable that he used the
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word crisis to describe the situation at the border. i know it's the nomenclature to downplay that. it's the first time we have heard someone from the white house use that word rather than challenge. it speaks to the urgency that they recognize the matter requires. vice president harris is going it talk about it this week and planning her own trip to the border. coming up, our next guest asked a pointed question. why do we let companies get away with this? "new york times" columnist nick christof is asking, how do they profit off a child's life? that conversation is just ahead.
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unambiguous consent when it comes to adult content and ensure websites document the age and verify the identity of anyone depicted in pictures and videos. that move by the credit card giant comes after its decision late last year that it would no longer allow its cards to be used on pornhub.com, a move taken in large part only after the publication of a column by our next guest that accuse the website of distributing videos depicting child abuse and non-consensual violence. nick kristof joins us now with his latest column on the issue entitled "why do we let corporations profit from rape videos"? also with us, new york university law professor melissa murray. you write, it happens all over the world. women and girls and men and boys are sexually assaulted or
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secretly filmed and video is posted on a major website that draws traffic through search engines. while the initial video is salt may be brief, the attack on dignity becomes interminable. it's not in a single company but in an industry that operates with impunity and punishing one corporation may benefit its rivals. google is a pillar of this sleazy ecosystem. google does have limits. i tried searching, how do i poison my husband and the results were literary or humorous, not how to instructions. the top responses, how do i commit suicide were also for a suicide hotline. so google, why not demonstrate the same responsibility when it comes for searches for rape videos? without accountability, corporations are tempted to avert their eyes. the most exploiting creates a
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race to the bottom. nick, you couldn't be more right. google couldn't be more hypocritical. a lot of the social media companies are right behind. there are no limits. there's no ability to sue. there's a million reasons why this can happen with impunity. i think our younger generations of men and women are going to suffer the most. >> yeah, as i was writing this, one of the stories that really shook me involved a 16-year-old girl who took a photo of herself naked in front of the bathroom mirror and snapchatted it to her boyfriend with the words, i love you, i trust you. he shared it with five -- he took a screen shot. he shared it with five of his friends. they shared it with 43 of their
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friends. soon, it was everywhere. and on porn sites. google was helping people find those images. she had been a good student. all of a sudden, she didn't want to go to school. she ended up dropping out. the family moved twice. they couldn't escape it. she ended up taking her own life. she did a really dumb thing. her boyfriend did something that was dumb and cruel. you shouldn't have companies seizing upon those mistakes and sharing them with the world. >> i talk about the younger generation, this hurts all generations, but it's like giving the teenage brain a loaded gun in so many ways. they have no idea what they're doing. they have no idea of the dangers. they have no idea what trust means and all sorts of things at a very young age when their minds are still developing. and yet, michelle, we are looking at these children
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getting destroyed or destroying themselves, trying to use these things like adults. is there any way that companies like google can be held accountable? >> i think nick hit the nail on his head with the column. one of the things we have seen come up in the absence of government regulation, there's been discussion about amending section 230, which is the part of the communication decency act that provides internet providers with a safe harbor against liability in situations like this. in lieu of that kind of government regulation, others have suggested that we see other kinds of informal sanctions like the kind you saw at the top of the story with mastercard refusing to process those credit card payments unless there's proof established that these were transactions that were not done in violation of other laws or that involve individuals who couldn't give consent.
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just as we are seeing in the context of police violence or voter suppression, the private sector steps in to provide some boundaries. we are seeing that here as well. all of this is happening because of an absence of government regulation. >> nick, i want you to jump in, hone in what needs to be done. first, melissa, i want to make sure i get your name right, thank you for your response. nick, what needs to happen to stem this growing violence on people who are unsuspecting victims? >> i think there's a misperception it's hopeless and if you go after one company, then another will pop up. sure, it's difficult. but these same companies, like pornhub, they don't show pirated videos, because we have laws about intellectual property.
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we have accountability. if the privacy were as much of a priority, if the law was as vigorous in providing accountability for violations of privacy, for ruining a kid's life, as it is for stealing somebody's video, then these companies would require consent, they would -- one of the most heartbreak things was happening was a video -- a kid's video would go on one of the websites, the kid would beg to the website, plead for it to be taken down, and it wouldn't take it down. the kids would have to pretend to be lawyers. i think the simplest solution is simply allow lawsuits against these companies. that will lead them to self-discipline. >> melissa, do you agree? what can we get -- when there's a damaging video or a video of someone who did not expect to be put online, especially if they are -- it's perso taken down?
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it seems so simple. >> again, it does seem simple. the broader question is that you have a delicate balance to strike between innovation and regulation on the other. it's been said the communications decency act in section 230 are the 26 words that made the internet. the fact that it is relatively free of government regulation has been what has allowed the internet to flourish, innovation, economic innovation and technological innovation. as you say, there have to be some boundaries. i think we are moving in that direction. there's been a lot of discussion about platform liability, whether it's for race discrimination or for situations like this involving sex trafficking. we have seen some changes. everyone is trying to balance these two interests in innovation and economic success. on the other hand, making sure that the internet remains a safe
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place for children and other vulnerable parties. >> nick and melissa, thank you both very much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. more than 100 days since the capitol insurrection. federal prosecutors have secured their first guilty plea from a rioter. john shaffer pleaded friday to illegally entering the u.s. capitol during the january 6th attack. his plea came on two of the six counts filed against him, which included an allegation he was among the rioters who assaulted capitol police officers with bear spray. he agreed to cooperate with the government, including being interviewed by investigators to better understand the degree of planning by far right groups leading up to the deadly attack. still to come, nasa scientists celebrate a historic liftoff from the surface of mars.
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>> confirmed. ingenuity performed its first flight. >> another giant leap for mankind next on "morning joe." i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter. finding new routes to reach your customers and new ways for themg) to reach youmy turtle. is what business is all about it's what the united states postal service has always been about so as your business changes, we're changing with it with e-commerce that runs at the speed of now next day and two-day shipping nationwide same day shipping across town returns right from the doorstep and deliveries seven days a week it's a whole new world out there let's not keep it waiting
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here is what happened inside nasa's mission control as the four-pound aircraft took flight on mars. >> landing, touchdown has been done. [ applause ] altimeter data confirmed ingenuity performed its first flight, first flight to another planet. >> it didn't take long until ingenuity beamed back its first image. it hovered ten feet in the air before touching back down on the martian surface. it is expected to take several longer flights in the weeks ahead, though it will need to rest 45 days to recharge its batteries.
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the woman in charge of the project said, quote, we've been talking so long about our wright brothers moment on mars, and here it is. and speaking of women, more than 2 million women have left america's workforce during the pandemic. they've been disproportionately impacted with the sharp loss of jobs and retail hospitality and restaurant industries, combined with remote learning and challenges at home and children. in the last year the bureau of labor statistics reported women's unemployment rate increased by 2.9% more than men. a recent report based off current trends by the world economic forum predicts men and women in the united states will receive equal pay six decades from now. great. here's what's president biden had to say about the growing issue -- >> women are dropping out of the workforce. is this a national emergency? >> it is a national emergency.
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women had to drop out of work and if they had a child at home, what could they do? childcare is expensive. >> let's bring in denise hamilton, ceo and co-founder of walt her work, multi digital media platform focused on closing the achievement gap for women providing professional advice. also with us cat cole, adviser, investor, former president of focused brands and professor at carter law school, author of "ten questions to negotiate anything." cat cole, i want to ask you first, what do companies need to do to right this wrong that sort of happened to women collectively over the past year? >> the list is long, but starting with listening to the women they have in their
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workforce about policies, procedures, and benefits needed for women to be able to fully come back to work. you heard from president biden there, childcare being at the top of that list to address this national emergency, and factoring in these responsibilities at home that have not gone away mysteriously as the pandemic starts to wne with vaccines coming out into the world. thinking how do we move into a hybrid environment, if it's an office job or restaurant job, how do we think about scheduling and providing childcare benefits as well as appropriate wages for our workers are some of the few things that can begin to accomplish this on the list. >> alex carder with "know your value," we talk a lot about what women can do, what their part of the equation is and a lot of times when they've gone through a bad professional loss, they wear it. they think about it all the time. you think about the tangible things they can do in this moment. one of the things that you say
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beyond the fact corporations need to create re-entry programs but you got to work your connections and to also don't explain the fact you had a gap. >> yeah, mika, first of all, sobering statistics and i completely agree this is a national emergency. so often when we approach a negotiation from a place like this, our tendency is to apologize, do not apologize for your break. as you heard, millions of women had to leave the workforce last year for reasons completely beyond our control. you're not alone. instead, tell what you have been doing and how that's an advantage for the company. so you've spent the last year juggling multiple home school schedules and consulting part time. well, you're a great multitasker who works well under pressure. now and always, mika, we have to be our own best self-advocate. >> that is so true.
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denise hamilton, i notice you are worried, obviously, we're in an ongoing struggle to get women to the higher level jobs, to the c-suites, ceo jobs and cmo jobs and there are a lot of different things companies and women can do to stay in the game. that's even more now. but you point out it's important the solutions that we talk about serve women the full spectrum of women, not just the higher earners. what are some of those solutions? >> the truth of the matter is, mika, those are hardest hit will be the ones that take the longest to come out of this recession. and the truth of the matter is that disproportionately had impacted black and brown women. so we've got to make sure as we develop retraining programs as we target resources that we don't do kind of a one-size-fits-all approach and we really service those who are most deeply impacted, service
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rolls, even public sector physicians as state and local governments start to lay off, as leisure, hospitality, all of these industries have to be specifically targeted if we're going to serve the people who have been the most impacted by this whole debacle. >> you have experienced a rising up within the service industry and i think this is complicated. and it's not -- it's much easier said then done. but given the fact even the president sees this as a crisis, what are some solutions for women lower down on the spectrum trying to get just their basic careers back? >> yeah, exactly what denise said, understanding that any approach that might be well intended to address bringing women back to the workforce, if not addressing the intersectional needs of many different types of women, will fall flat on its face. if i think about the hospitality industry, i was talking with
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three restaurant owners here in atlanta just last week who are struggling to find workers as business is coming back online. and we had a lot of conversations about how important it is to train managers. the owners of restaurants, large hospitality companies, no matter how noble the ceo, they are not in those units every day. they're not hiring, they're not coaching, they're not addressing or promoting. so putting the effort on training frontline managers who can do a phenomenal job of attracting, retaining and developing women from within, that is a secret sauce to some of these policies having an impact on the frontline level. >> alex carder, i'm going to go to you but you can take a question to deens, it might be the same one. what is your advice to women right now in terms of approaching getting back in, but they still have a home that is literally defending upon them with kids, the potential
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positive work remote, the issues of starting all over again when they were completely displaced, which is traumatic? >> you know, mika, it really is, and we're all going to need to negotiate the best we can. companies have to meet workers but there are things we can do. first, i want people to know you can and should negotiate compensation. denise, you know this better than anyone, we have not just one wage gap but multiple wage gaps, right? with black and brown women lagging even behind white women. but hr managers and higher managers tell me there is at least 10% wiggle room. so people can and should negotiate the best they can for themselves. and then beyond that, listen to women and negotiate for the things that you need on the home front, whether that's flex time,
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childcare solutions, even time off zoom to do that deep work. when you negotiate, make sure you show the company how it's going to be a win for them too, that this is how you'll be able to help them achieve their goals. >> denise? >> mika, mika, you know, this is a time when the black squares really come to play. this is the time to move out of promtive allyship and support women and create an on-ramp back into the workforce the way we had an off-ramp to get out of it. >> denise hamilton, kat cole and alexander carder, thank you all. i want you to know you can hear much more from these women at "know your value".com. and we have a lot more, including the government announcing more than half of the adult population has received one dose of the covid-19 vaccine. as of today, all states opened their vaccine eligibility to all eligible adults.
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a verdict in the murder trial of former officer derek chauvin could come this week. closing arguments are set to begin today. the prosecution and defense will make their final cases to the jury before it is sequestered for deliberations. and russian officials said overnight that alexi navalny has been transferred to a hospital. the top putin critic is believed to develop kidney and heart problems to go along with back pain and numbness in his legs. the u.s. is saying that would be a bad idea to let him die. we'll be following that. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it is monday, april 19th, and we start with breaking news out of minneapolis, minnesota. we are just one hour away from the start of closing arguments in the murder trial

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