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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  April 16, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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paper. we're all laughing at him. it's not -- it's like a cat being a lawyer. it's -- mistakes are made. okay. we don't -- and we're old. we don't know how to use these -- these darn -- these old, fangled computers. he just don't know. we're old! >> computers are hard. now, i am out of time. now, i'm out of time. but i will say, richard kind, andrew weissman, ending the week with a whole different medley. richard, i hope now, you can see the benefit of putting you two together. we think it was great. have a good weekend, you guys. thanks to everyone watching the beat. and the reid out with joy reid starts now. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" tonight with a critical and uncomfortable question. what is wrong with us? why is our country like this? so chaotic, so violent? whether it's police, on citizen. or citizen, on citizen.
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many of us woke up, this morning, to learn of, yet, another, mass shooting. a 19-year-old gunman who opened fire at a fedex facility in indianapolis, killing eight people before, also, killing himself. this news, mind you, comes on the 14th anniversary of the virginia-tech shooting, when 32 people were gunned down. meaning, we have arrived at a place, where mass shootings occur on the anniversaries of other mass shootings. here's what president joe biden had to say, today, about the epidemic of gun violence in america. >> this has to end. it's a national embarrassment. it is a national embarrassment, what's going on. and it's not only these mass shootings that are occurring. every single day, every single day, there's a mass shooting in this -- in the united states, if you count all those who were killed out in the streets of our cities and our rural areas. it's a national embarrassment, and must come to an end.
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>> it is an embarrassment. i mean, learning of a mass shooting is always jarring, regardless of when it falls. but this one literally came as this country was reeling from a horrific night. the night, many of us watched. newly-released body-cam video of adam toledo, a 13-year-old boy, shot and killed by a chicago police officer while he had his hands up. adam toledo, just 13, like tamir rice, just 12, should still be alive. this, of course, is all happening, alongside the murder trial of former-minneapolis police officer, derek chauvin, in the death of george floyd. in a courthouse, just-ten miles from where daunte wright was killed, on sunday. so, i repeat, why is our country like this? of course, it's been like this for a long time. and our country is kind of always been this way. think about how this country was founded. how it was built. how it emerged as a superpower. violently. so in a way, of course, we're like this. according to the prison policy
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initiative. u.s. police kill civilians at a much-higher rate than police in other, wealthy countries. the u.s. locks up more people, per capita, than any other nation, by far. the u.s. leads in guns per capita and, in fact, has more guns than people. according to a study on global-firearm ownership. and in the past month, we have seen 53-mass shootings in this country, alone. some of those shootings included the killings at three atlanta-area spas, where six of the slain were asian women. a community that's faced an alarming spike in hate incidents, since the pandemic took hold and the president slapped the racist brand name on it. less than a week after that at a supermarket in boulder, a shooter armed with a military-style semiautomatic rifle took the lives of ten people. and about a week after that, the gunman opened fire at a california real estate office, killing four people, including a 9-year-old boy. this country is at a breaking point, folks. it's just a breaking point. partially, because of our refusal to reconcile our
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violent, racist past. a pursuit the reverend dr. martin luther king jr. died for. years before his assassination, he penned on this day, a letter from jail. included in the letter, were these words. for years now, i have heard the word, wait! it rings in the ear of every negro with piercing familiarity. this "wait" has almost always meant never. this is a moment, when we, as a nation, have to take a hard look at who we are. who we are, as a country. a country, where violence just feels inevitable. waiting has failed us. so when will it stop? with me, now, is paul butler. former-federal prosecutor and marq claxton, director of the black law enforcement alliance and a retired nypd detective, and mark, i'm going to start with you. because, you know, we have this situation where we have police investigating shootings. but police, also, being the
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people that many of us are more afraid of than random -- or just as afraid of, i guess, as random shooters. this feels unsustainable, to me. i wonder, how it feels to you? >> yeah, it is unsustainable. and i think what's really important is something that you just mentioned. that that is the significance of understanding the history. just as we have to understand the history of the origins of this nation, in regards to gun violence. we have to understand the history of policing, as it relates to enforcement of laws in the community. and the relationships between the police and the black-and-brown communities. it's -- it's hugely significant, the history of it. but the short answer is, we cannot sustain the -- the -- the way in which we're going. there is a -- an absolute lack of trust, confidence, and faith -- faith in the current system of policing. so, it has to be reimagined. and it has to be reimagined, if the police come kicking or
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screaming, or not. but it requires a certain level of deconstruction, and rebuilding, in order for there to be a restoration of effective policing in this country. if we are to continue with policing model. >> yeah, and, you know, paul, you know, so, you have the ta m mir rice case. police roll up on people, who they think might commit a crime. and in this case, kill a 12-year-old boy in kind of like a drive-by, literally, jumped out of the car shooting because he had a toy gun in his hand. but at the same time, what we actually need police for are investigating, you know, real crimes, right? we have mass shootings. we have investigative needs in this country, that police are the ones, presumably, they have to fill. i saw you talking, earlier, on msnbc, with stephanie ruhle. about like some of the ideas people have had about what we can change about what it is police are doing with their
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time. do we need to go to a model where we are using police for investigative work for, you know, post-crime, and leaving this sort of pre -- pre-crime, you know, function to someone else? >> absolutely, joy. so, think about the driving-while-black stops that we learned about this week, that resulted in tragedies. lieutenant nazario, daunte wright. classic stops by police, which aren't really about law enforcement. they're about tickets. we don't need people with guns giving tickets because, too often, that leads to tragic results. >> well, here is the problem, though, marq. in a country that is soaked with guns and has more guns than people. if you are giving -- if you are having non-law enforcement, unarmed people giving out tickets, they could get shot, right? because everybody has guns. and if you have non-law enforce mts people knocking on doors to
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do wellness checks, they could get shot because everybody has guns. like, it seems like we are kind of at an intractable position where there are too many guns in the world. and so, police can easily say i think this person had a gun, i think that person had a gun because everybody's got guns, right? but we also -- police just don't seem to be fundamentally built, emotionally, you know, or -- or in terms of maturity, to deal with, sort of, crimes where you -- situations, not crimes, but situations where you need empathy, not guns. >> yeah. yeah. well, you know, part of -- of -- of what's called re-imagining police and -- and i think it requires for people to really think outside of their box, and outside of their comfort zone. i know i have had to do that because i have an obvious bias. i had a career in the policing profession. so, when you talk about eliminating police, believe you me, even with my positions and my progressive mindset, there is some pushback. but i think, when you break it
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down to the simplest forms. for example, you know, paul mentioned about traffic infractions. there's nothing wrong with, for example, noting and -- and -- and -- and taking the license information, instead of making an actual stop for a violation that you observed, like registration. take down the license-plate information. and -- and mail in that summons or court appearance, et cetera. it's those type of -- of things that really have to be examined, and broken down. and i think, we can -- we can take the boogieman-ism out of -- out of re-imagining police, if we start to deal, step by step, with police responses. there is no reason, in this day and age, for police to have to respond along with or ahead of fire officials to fires. or for every-medical emergency that occurs. or every car accident with a no -- no injuries or with injuries, itself. so, i think, if we're honest and open about it, there are many ways, and many things that could be done to safely reimagine
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policing and have people still have confidence they'll remain safe. >> let me play this -- this sort of maybe hopeful thing. pat robertson, who you would never expect. i don't think anybody expected pat robertson on their bingo card. here he is this week talking about police conduct. >> i am pro-police, folks. i think, we need the police. we need the -- their service. and they do a good job. but, if they don't stop this onslaught, they cannot do this. we cannot have a bunch of clowns running around, who are underpaid, and who, really, are not the best and brightest. we got to have the best in there. >> and i mean, paul, he makes a good point. i mean, we have a story out this -- in "the guardian." some other reporters have done it as well. that you have police and public officials like donating money to kyle rittenhouse. treating him like a hero, you have got people whose sort of mental constitution feels like the wrong thing to have around black people, right? to have around people of color.
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christian crowd-funding website. cops giving money to that. so it -- it feels like, if pat robertson agrees that maybe it's the personnel that are getting hired that need to change. maybe, it's the type of people who are being recruited into -- into the field. and both of you can take that, but paul first. >> so i think, part of the problem is bad-apple cops. but part of the problem is this system is working, the way it's supposed to. our criminal-legal process and our police are laser focused on black and brown people. so, i'm really happy that pat robertson is, suddenly, woke. i do wish that he had thanked the activists in the movement for black lives for educating him. because those activists are responsible for this social movement, that's the largest in our history. and, joy, in a week of bad news about policing, there are slow signs of progress. the chicago videotape came out
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after a month. the city said, in the video of mcdonald's death for over a year. the officer in the brooklyn-center case was charged three days after he was killed. none of this would have happened without the movement for black lives. so, god bless those activists, as pat robertson might say. >> absolutely. and last one to you, marq claxton. is part of this that we need to start drawing police, from the communities that are being policed? because paul is absolutely right. there are too many out-of-town people policing in black neighborhoods where they have no empathy for those people. they don't see those kids as their kids. they have nothing -- no empathy for them. even the children in the community. do we need to start making policing local? >> that could offer some advantage. but i'm -- i'm not one of those people, who believes that there will be significant or substantive change, if you make people local. or even, here's one. even if you have more people who look like the people that they're enforcing laws against. if people are by toxic police
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culture, you will have the same level of tragedies moving forward. >> unfortunately. real talk from paul butler and marq claxton. happy weekend, gentlemen. thank you for being here. next on "the reidout." dr. anthony fauci is here one day after he put a foaming-at-the-mouth jim jordan right in his place. >> are we going to be here two years from now wearing masks? asking dr. fauci the same question? >> let me -- let me -- you are ranting again. let me just -- >> no, i'm not ranting. >> yes, you are. plus, 100 days since the insurrection and none of the republicans in congress, who pushed and continue to push, the big lie. have suffered any consequences. and my thoughts, as one of the cops in the breonna-taylor killing snags himself a book deal. "the reidout," continues after this. is as carla wonders if she can retire sooner, she'll revisit her plan with fidelity. and with a scenario that makes it a possibility, she'll enjoy her dream right now. that's the planning effect, from fidelity.
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weeks. the spike especially dire in michigan. a state which now accounts for more than 10% of the country's daily cases according to "the new york times." this comes, as the state's top-medical expert warnings that they are on track to potentially see a surge in cases, that's even greater than the one that we saw in the fall. "the new york times" reports that, while there is no-single reason for the surge, data suggests small-social gatherings were driving case increases. and children are, also, accounting for a higher percentage of cases. and yet, we're still seeing pushback against mask requirements. like, in the town of hudsonville. where parents pounded at the doors of a school-board meeting, yesterday. demanding that masks be made optional for their kids. it comes, as republican leaders continue to oppose covid precautions. senator ted cruz is now defying cdc guidelines, by refusing to wear a mask on the senate floor. and republican governors in florida and texas have taken steps to stop some businesses from requiring vaccines for service. additionally, the temporary
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pause of the johnson & johnson vaccine has spurred a new wave of misinformation on social media. as npr reports, the most-popular link on facebook about the johnson & johnson news was shared by a conspiracy theorist who thinks the pandemic is a cover for government control. all of this may explain why a person's politics is the leading indicator, now, of whether they'll get vaccinated, according to a new monmouth poll. they found that, among republicans, 43% said they will never take the vaccine. compared to just 5% of democrats. that's why it was so refreshing to see dr. anthony fauci stand up for science, when congressman jim jordan tried to bully him in a public hearing, yesterday. >> what measure, what standard, what objective, outcome, do we have to reach before -- before americans get their liberty and freedoms back? >> you know, i -- you're -- you are indicating liberty and freedom. i look at it as a public-health measure, to prevent people from dying. >> when do americans get their
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first-amendment liberties back? >> you know, i don't think anything was censured because they felt they couldn't disagree with me. i think you're -- you're making this a personal thing, and it isn't. >> it's not a personal thing. >> no, you are. that is exactly what you are doing. we're not talking about liberties. we are talking about a pandemic, that has killed 560,000 americans. >> the american people want dr. fauci to answer the question. >> well -- >> what does it have to be. >> >> time expired, sir. you need to respect the chair and shut your mouth. >> come through, maxine waters. with me now, dr. anthony fauci. director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases and chief-medical adviser to president biden. dr. fauci, thank you so much for being here. when i saw that, i just thought to myself, thank god that dr. fauci mentioned the dead. i -- i -- i want to ask you, does it shock you? frustrate you? how do you feel, when you are peppered with questions about, you know, restrictions and freedoms and the dead, the 560,000 dead are not mentioned?
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>> well, it's very frustrating, because, you know, as a public-health official, i am, very much, aware of this issue of covid-19 fatigue. about people, really, being worn down and -- and tired of the kinds of restrictions that we have when we do public-health guidelines. but the numbers speak for themselves. i mean, i -- i understand. i'm very -- you know, the -- congressman jordan mentioned the people of ohio. i care, very much, for the people of ohio. i don't want to see them get sick or die, because we have 560,000 americans that have died, so far. so, we are looking at it from different perspectives. i am looking at it from a public-health perspective. and he was talking about the infringement upon liberties. right now, what we need to do is get this pandemic behind us. and we will do that, and it will not be an indefinite period of time. the thing that we have so much in our favor is that we now have 80-million americans fully
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vaccinated. and 127 million have had at least one dose. each day, we get three-to-four-million people vaccinated, additionally. each day, that goes by. so, what we need to do is just hang on there, a bit longer. until we get the majority, the overwhelming majority, of people vaccinated. and you will see, the -- the level of infection continue to come down. and when it does, then, you'll see a relaxation of the kind of restrictions that people would like to get rid of because they want to get their lives back. i, certainly, want to get my life back. but i, also, put, as a higher priority, the health and the safety and the lives of the american public. >> well, you know, and i am one of the fully vaccinated. i am fully faucied, as i tell everyone. i am all faucied on team pfizer. but, you know, the -- the question i have is are we really going to get to the end of it? because, dr. fauci, at this point, it is political.
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there are paranoia acts who are paranoid about you. they have decided they don't trust you. they don't believe anything you say. they think you are trying to have the government take over their lives or put nanobots in them. and bill gates is going to physically control them if they get the vaccine. it isn't just hesitancy now. it's paranoia. you had tucker carlson going on and basically saying that it -- that you are not telling the truth. that if you are vaccinated, there is no reason to wear a mask, anymore. you have people screaming at store clerks because they don't want to wear masks. this is not rational, at this point, dr. fauci. so, i wonder, what do we do about the irrational resistance to doing the basics? getting vaccinated. wearing masks. >> you know, there is no-easy answer to that, because when you are talking about irrationality and conspiracy theories and things like that. there is not a good-logical answer to that, to just hope that people will finally realize, when they look around them. and maybe, see loved ones who get infected, who get seriously
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ill. that they realize that we are dealing with a very serious problem. i just hope that, that happens. i mean, i'm very concerned about that, because if we get a substantial proportion of people who don't get vaccinated, then we will not get to the point that people want to get to. i mean, the point that congressman jordan -- and i totally understand where he wants to be. i mean, that's a logical thing. he wants to get back to normality. but when you have a substantial proportion of people, who refuse to get vaccinated, it makes it that-much more difficult. and the reason it makes it that-much more difficult is that, when you don't have that many people vaccinated, you still have a lot of dynamics of virus. just what you said, yourself, a few moments ago, joy, when you were just leading into the segment. if you look at the number of people, each day, who are getting infected, it's well over an average, a seven-day average of 60,000-plus people, per day,
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who are getting infected. that is a very precarious place to be. because that would lead with a little bit right up to a -- to a surge. >> and this is the worry. the johnson & johnson hold, i think, has accelerated that hesitancy and fear. before the pause, 52% thought johnson & johnson was safe. after, only 37%. there are now vaccine appointments going unfilled, nbc news is reporting there is like a nationwide crisis. up to half a million vaccine appointments are not -- people just aren't going to their appointments. so i guess, my question to you would be, you know, the message is not getting through to a certain percentage of people, because of political party. do you think, at this point, we need to, i don't know, give donald trump $10 million to do a psa? i am sort of out of ideas as to how to get people who are politically opposed to cooperating, to cooperate. >> right. well, let's just hope that there's some shred, left, of looking at data and evidence. and the data and evidence are
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very public, and very transparent. so, when you talk about the issue with j&j, what the cdc and the fda did, by a surveillance system that picks up adverse events, picked up one, two, three, and then, finally, six serious-adverse events, mostly among young women, usually, a week or two following the vaccination. when you do the numbers, it's less than one in a million. >> yeah. yeah. >> so what -- but the important thing is that what you, then, see, is that we take safety very, very seriously. so, if we were going to put a pause on one in a million, then all of the other vaccines, the mrna, that we were talking about. the pfizer and the moderna. there should be no reason, whatsoever, to cancel an appointment, because the same-surveillance system that picked up the six would have picked up something with the others.
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and there was nothing there. no-red flags. so, there's no real, logical reason not to get vaccinated. >> yeah. very quickly, before i let you go. for those of us, who are vaccinated. give us a list of what you think is safe to do. is it safe to eat in indoor restaurants? to get on a plane? to hug our grandmas? like, what's safe to do once you've been fully vaccinated? >> you know, it depends on the level of infection in your community. it doesn't matter what the level of infection is. if you are vaccinated and you want to have something in the home, you, your family if they are vaccinated. if grandma wants to come in and she's vaccinated. and see her grandchildren. they don't, necessarily, obviously, need to be vaccinated. they can't. nor does the mother need to be vaccinated, as long as they don't have an underlying disease that would make them very susceptible to a severe outcome. so, you could go to a restaurant if you -- but -- but it's a
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relative risk. when you have a lot of infection in the community, then you want to be careful. that's why we say wear a mask. >> and -- and i don't understand why that is -- freaks people out so much. and people get so mad. look get a cute mask and make it fashion. just put a mask on. it saves some lives. dr. anthony fauci. thank you very much. your name is, now, a verb. and i hope that at least you feel good about having been -- been -- the vaccine, we just say we get a fauci and that's what we say now. thank you very much, sir. have a great weekend. >> you, too. thank you. >> thank you. and still ahead. it's been 100 days since the capitol insurrection. and we're learning more about the insurrectionists, and the intelligence-and-security failures that helped make it possible. two congresswomen who were inside the capitol on january 6th join us, next. apitol on jan 6th join us, next. you know that look? that life of the party look walk it off look one more mile look reply all look own your look... ...with fewer lines. there's only one botox® cosmetic. it's the only one...
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when traders tell us how to make thinkorswim even better, we listen. because platforms this innovative, aren't just made for traders-they're made by them. thinkorswim trading. from td ameritrade. today is exactly-100 days since the january-6th capitol insurrection. the images of that day, a lynch mob of maga insurrectionists laying siege to the united states capitol after being whipped into a frenzy by the former-president's big lie remain indelible. as are the images from inside the capitol. with insurrectionists violating the people's house. and lawmakers becoming witnesses, forced to flee for their safety. michigan congressman, dan kildee, captured video of capitol police officers with guns drawn, just inside the door of the house chamber.
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and pennsylvania congresswoman, madelyn dean, who was photographed in a gas mask, as she and other members were evacuated that day. and later, as a house manager in the impeachment trial, she movingly reflected on what she experienced. >> someone shouted up to us, duck. then, lie down. then, ready your gas masks. shortly after, there was a terrifying banging on the chamber doors. i will never forget that sound. >> 100-days later, we are still learning more about the perpetrators of that horrific day. and the security failures that led to it. this week, the capitol police inspector general issued a scathing report, saying capitol police ignored critical intelligence. including a warning that congress, itself, is the target. and just today, prosecutors secured the first-guilty plea in connection with the siege. a founding member of the far-right group, the oath keepers, pleaded guilty to
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multiple felonies, and has agreed to cooperate against others. becoming the first defendant to flip in the domestic-terrorism investigation. meanwhile, in congress, there is still no bipartisan 9/11-style commission looking into the january-6th insurrection. but house speaker nancy pelosi reiterated calls for one, in a letter to colleagues, marking the anniversary. i am joined now by pennsylvania congresswoman and former-impeachment manager, madelyn dean. and washington congressman, camilla jayapal. and congresswoman dean, i want to start with you. and just get kind of your reflections 100 days later. particularly, in light of the fact that you faced continuing threats. a -- a trump supporter, having been charged with harassment after threatening-phone calls to you, and voicemails. including sexual remarks directed at you, members of your family, and grandchild. it feels like this kind of hasn't really 100% ended for you. is that accurate to say? >> it hasn't ended for me. it hasn't ended for any of us.
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i think of our staffs, what they have to worry about. they have to receive these incoming threats. you are absolutely right. my own family, myself, have been threatened. i wound up with a protection, um, group of capitol police officers. i could go on, for hours, about the professionalism and the humanity that they brought to their job, protecting me for more than two-and-a-half months, in light of these threats, as i was impeachment manager, and then, thereafter. this is a protective agency. and they were under-prepared, as the report shows. they were underresourced. and the fault, i have to tell you, from my own experience, dealing with rank-and-file sergeants and upper-level members was not theirs. we owe them, congress owes them the protection so that they can protect us. i -- i -- i don't know what you think but i can't believe it's been a hundred days. we were -- we were talking,
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today, talking about how close we were up in the gallery together. just having surgery and the surreal nation of it. the reason that i -- i -- i spoke about the nature of the -- the -- the sound. and primilla, i don't know if you felt this, also. the series of commands we got, i felt we're safe here. we are certainly safe in this chamber. this can't be that great a threat. but, of course, it was an extraordinary threat. >> yeah. >> and the intelligence shows that congress, itself, was the target. what does that tell you about the administration that knew that? >> it -- it is frightening to think about. and i still -- i have not gotten over it. i wasn't even, you know, there in proximity to it. and congresswoman jayapal, on top of the threat from banging on the doors that, god knows, what they would have done had they been able to get through to any one of you. in addition to that, i wonder how you feel, 100 days later,
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about some of your colleagues who are not taking seriously the other threat, which was the threat of spreading covid. and you having to be in close contact with them, in these secure rooms, with no masks. and people laughing at those who are trying to distribute them. and sort of, adding to that threat. i just wonder, your -- your reflections on -- on that or even just on the day, 100 days later. >> well, she's absolutely right. this isn't over for any of us. you might know i started a text chain of all the people in the gallery. i call it the gallery group because, joy, it's been really traumatic. and i will tell you, every -- there are all kind of triggers, you know, just like with any trauma. when we see something happen, when we read about the oath keepers, when we see somebody on television, when we see the images again. and we have all had to go through, as well as our staffs, a lot of work to just process all of that. and to live with the continuing fear, because our colleagues are not taking this seriously. and, yes, i contracted covid
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because i was just to -- to the left -- i figured out i was just to the left where she was looking down on the floor. and so, our group was sort of the last group to be let out, i think, now in -- in looking at everything. and by the time we made it to the room, the secure location, it was packed. there were a couple-hundred people. and that video, you showed, was our colleague lisa blount rochester trying, desperately, to get people to wear masks. we were trying to shelter and secure lockdown. but they were refusing to wear masks and laughing when lisa was offering those masks to them. and the minute i walked in there, joy, i knew that it was a superspreader event. and the minute i was done voting on the floor, at 4:00 a.m., i went home and i told my husband, i am gonna get covid so i'm not leaving the house. i'm isolating. and in fact, three-days laters, i tested positive. five-days later, he tested positive. and, you know -- and the -- and the republicans are, still, not taking this seriously. and so, i think, the whole
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experience, you know, mad and i were talking, earlier today. and it feels unreal, still, because it's hard to imagine that something like that could happen. i remember a text, right at the beginning when we, first, heard that the crowds were breaching the capitol. and my husband said, i think you should come back to the office. and i said, oh, no. i'm here, in the capitol, with the speaker. this is the safest place i can be. and that gap of perception, between how safe we felt or we thought we were. and how safe we actually were. is something that is continuing today. i think, we all feel like, without these additional-security measures, without the additional-200 positions that the capitol police is down, without the retractible fences. you know, all the things that general honore has proposed with his review. and without -- i mean, we just had the first person -- the -- the oath keeper plead guilty.
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but there is a lot of people out there, who were involved in this. and worst of all? all our colleagues, who are still perpetrating the big lie. that's the scariest thing. >> well, that is the question i wanted to ask both you. is -- is -- is what is the level of trust? because you have -- you know, i mean, i -- by the way, i'm still chilled i remember talking with congresswoman ayanna pressley. all of these things have got to remain traumatic. but then, you have members on the republican side, who are doing things like forming a caucus for anglo-saxon values that sounds like it's repeating the 14 words. and still, trying to push through anti-voter legislation. and -- and still, supporting the big lie. and pretending they don't know who won the election. what's the level of trust, within the congress, when you have members who, it's not clear, what side they are on when it comes to the siege?
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congressman dean. >> you know, i -- i really want to say, publicly, that the big lie and the continuation of it, our top-elected officials on the other side makes everyone in this country unsafe. it's not just about electeds like congressman jayapal and me. it is about our staff. it is about the very capitol, itself. it is about -- think of it. we not only lost officer sicknick. but then, evans, just this week, we had to have him lie in honor. we are, all, less safe. so, i call upon our colleagues and primilla and i both serve on judiciary where many of the big-lie spreaders are, in addition to the superspreaders. and i call upon them to reflect to say, i owe you the truth because i make all of you less safe, as i promote the big lie. and i tell people that something was stolen from them. nothing was stolen from them. this election was fair and square.
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we know it. >> it is -- it is frightening. and i am frightened, for you. and i don't know how i would be able to go about working with people, who were still pushing that, when that is what caused the violence. and as you said, people died as a result of it. people got sick because of it and it's traumatized the country. but thank you so much for being here and sharing this evening with us. it is an important anniversary. we will never forget it. congressman dean, congressman jayapal, be well. >> still ahead. >> thank you. more on 100 days since the capitol insurrection. capitol police officer, harry dunn, joins me next. don't go anywhere. ♪♪ ♪ i will stand for you ♪ ♪ would you stand for me? ♪
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january 6th was a fraught day for all capitol police officers. with 140 officers injured and one, tragically, dead, as a direct result of the insurrection. but black police officers had to deal with racism on top of the
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violence they were experiencing. in this "buzz feed" piece which was actually cited by house impeachment managers, black officers described a harrowing day in which they were forced to endure racist abuse, including repeatedly being called the n-word, as they tried to do their job of protecting the capitol building. harry dunn who later told "the new york times" a lot of us, black officers, fought a different battle than everybody else fought. dunn was recorded by one of the insurrectionists pleading with the mob to think about the officers who were already hurt. >> i am joined now by u.s. capitol police officer, harry dunn. and officer, dunn, thank you so much for being here. i was very excited to talk to you today. you talked about fighting a different fight, than other police officers. the black officers. can you -- you know, tease that out a little bit more for me. what do you mean by that? >> well, first of all, tank you thank you for having me.
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i'm glad to talk to you, also. the battle, i guess, was just different. like, everybody we fought physical fights. and we were emotionally tested. but to have racism rear its ugly head in there. that -- while the fight was happening, i didn't process it while it was happening. so, once you -- it's all over, and you're attempting to put together, in your mind, what happened. >> yeah. >> you're faced with, wow. we really were called the n-word, like, it's just a -- it's -- it's a different -- it's a lot more to unpack than just, oh, the -- the actual-physical trauma we endured so -- >> yeah. we saw people beating officers with thin-blue line flags. obviously, blue lives matter was out the window. you spoke with richard engel about being called the n-word repeatedly. in your mind, did you experience
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this as specifically a racist attack? that, that was their purpose? >> no. no. i believe that it was a racist -- it was racist people there, and i experienced they racist moment. more of the -- the purpose of there was a big lie, and people just thought that they were better than, they're above the system and rules don't apply to them. that's -- that's what it was. so -- >> and -- and there are stories of some, you know, white police officers and very few. the vast majority of capitol police were heroic, in trying to beat back this mob. but there were a few, who were taking photos and selfies with some of the insurrectionists. did you know about that? have you talked to any officers about that? and what do you make of that? >> i'm not too -- i'm not too sure about any of that, and those investigations that may be going on with the department. i'm not -- not familiar with that. i do know that the officers that i know, the officers that i stood beside, that i go to work with, to this day, from day one.
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we fought valiantly. and we stopped them from from their ultimate goal of, you know, not having the certification of the election happen. so, those officers, we always have each others' back. >> this has been a difficult year for the capitol police. you all lost more officers than in the history of the capitol police. at what point did you process? and do you feel like members of congress were going to die? if it went on? is that the sense you had at the time or did you look back and think, my god, you know, members of congress, maybe the speaker were at risk of dying? >> well, so, it's interesting
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that you say when you process it, because once you attempt to get close to processing what happened on the 6th, then you've got this attack that happened on the 2nd of april and you're like, wow, i don't even have a moment to just breathe and decompress. it's just something else that just -- it just hits you and it's like, man, can we catch a break? >> yeah. >> and you're still going to work and you still have to do your job day to day. so it's very difficult. so we depend on each other. we're encouraging people to talk to therapists and seek help just to get -- just to cope. now, to your other point about them -- at that moment they -- i have to think back to the particular battle, the fight. it's easy to say now, yes, they wanted to kill the speaker of the house and they wanted to hang -- that wasn't known then
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because i didn't see the footage obviously because it was all over the place, so it's hard to say what their intentions were. they were evil, possessed terrorists who were hell bent on whatever they thought they were going to do and they didn't do it because of the valiant efforts of the capitol police, so -- >> i 100% agree with that. officer harry dunn, you're a hero, all your capitol police who fought valiantly to stop what happened at the capitol, we appreciate you. >> thank you for having me. that means a lot. thank you so much. >> all right. and up next -- thank you. and up next, the long, sad history of folks cashing in after killing black men, women and children. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. my retirem keeps me moving forward. they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa. voya doesn't just help me get to retirement... ...they're with me all the way through it.
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oh i don't think that was ever in question. ...and stream must-see disney new releases! people need this symbol. where do we start? find the best in entertainment all in one place, with disney plus now on xfinity! a way better way to watch. on august 28, 1955, former world war ii soldiers roy bryant and his half brother j.w. milum, abducted and lynched 14-year-old emmett till. he was visiting his cousins in mississippi from chicago and happened into the bryant store which sold goods to the sharecroppers. his wife accused him of flirting with her. they beat, bludgeoned till's
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body and sank his body in the taal hatchy river weighted by a heavy fan. he was discovered three days later. his mother buried him in an open casket to let the world see the reality of lynching. the during the trial the lawyers who worked for security they talked about the handsome looks and j.w.'s tall stature and big cigars. they alluded to carolyn as a crossroads marilyn monroe. the killers were quickly acquitted by an all-white jury and they sold their story to look magazine for $4,000, about $39,000 today. they admit today every detail because they were proud of it. that's the story i immediately heard of when i heard sergeant jonathan mattingly, one of the cops who shot breonna taylor dead in her own home after midnight ton march 13 of last
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year, had snagged himself a book deal. the fight for truth, the inside story behind the breonna taylor story. he made it clear who he thinks the real victim is. >> i'm not going to sit here and act like playing the big victim card, but i mean i was a victim in this as well. my family has been a victim in this. they have had to go in hiding. they have had death threats. when somebody sits back from their mansion and accuses somebody they don't know of being a racist and being a dirty cop, being a murderer, when that's not the case, that does affect you. >> the predictable revulsion caused simon and schuster to back out of the project saying they will no longer distribute the book. less clear is whether they'll keep doing business with tennessee imprint post hill press which is publishing the book and boasts both titles between demagogue dan bongino and matt gaetz involved with sex
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with a teenager. he previously sued her boyfriend kenneth walker claiming that the warning shot he fired that hit mattingly in the leg after hearing what he thought were people breaking into their apartment while he and breonna were asleep causeed him severe mental trauma and emotional distress. mattingly was later criticized by his command for writing an email to the fellow cop saying we did the legal, moral and ethical thing that night by killing breonna taylor showing up at her house with a bum warrant where the suspect was not. lord, please grant me a country where killing black people and those who support our right to survive to old age does president make you a right-wing celebrity. like george zimmerman became for killing teenage trayvon martin. or kyle rittenhouse who shot three white black lives matter protesters, killing two of them and drew applause and donations from police, and conservative public figures. and now jonathan mattingly, who
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apparently will now seek to graduate from being a guy who ended the life of a young black woman to being a vampire who turns her death, at his hands, into personal profit and right-wing stardom. that is tonight's reid out. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on "all in." 100 days later, the big lie that spurred the insurrection is a republican campaign slogan. >> america suffered the worst voter fraud in election theft in history. [ applause ] >> tonight the politicians still pushing the big lie and profiting from it. plus a founding member of a militia gripe pleads guilty to breaching the capitol. and generous he will honore joins me on what needs to be done to protect the capitol from further attack. then. >> this has to end. it's a national embarrassment. it is a


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