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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 16, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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scene. after a preliminary shirts on the ground inside and out, we have located eight people at the scene with injuries consistent to gunshot wounds. those eight were pronounced deceased here at the scene. we have been made aware of other people with injuries who have been transported to local hospitals, or what transported themselves to a local hospital. our detectives are working with the police, they are gathering information and interviewing not those people who are here at the seam, but also those who have gone to hospitals seeking medical treatment. a family unification center has been establish at the holiday inn express, eight five five
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five stanford drive. our victims assistant unit and chaplain office are here at the scene and at the family unification center assisting with family members who have shown up to this area. right now, i want to make everybody know that everybody in this scene is being interviewed by detectives, so they may not have an opportunity to contact their families, but as soon as they are available they will. for any and all information about the situation we're asking that the primary information comes from the minneapolis police department, we will be your source for the most accurate and up-to-date information. please reach out to the public affairs office, corrections, i npd, at four --
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information. anyone that was here and who left the scene should seek medical treatment or just for safety we asked that you contact either to 60 tips and give us your information and anything that you may know or contact our homicide office at three one seven, 3 to 7, three four seven five. it is important to know that emotions are very high here, there are a lot of people, not just officers but family members who are still arriving and still learning about this incident, many went to bed and some are just waking up to this. we ask for your continued support for everyone here involved. we understand that there are a lot of moving parts, we ask for your patience as we gather the most accurate information so that that information comes to
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you and you can relay it accurately to everybody else, we don't want to give out information that may hurt somebody. >> can you put this moment in perspective, this horrific situation, eight people dead, this is heartbreaking? >> it is very heartbreaking, the officers who responded who came in, they went in and did their jobs. and a lot of them are trying to face it because this is a fight that no one should ever have to see, but we as minneapolis members, we've come together, we need to support each other and understand that they're going to be people out there who are going to be emotionally upset and we need to support them regardless of any circumstance. this is a tragedy, but yet through it all, we will come through it. you talk about the gun? >> i do not have that
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information. at this time it is still too early to tell. they're still trying to identify different people, and we want to break the proper notifications at. this time >> have any officers been? injured >> know they have not. >> can you talk about people going to different hospitals? is it dozens, hundreds? >> we know for sure that we have for people transported by ambulance, one in critical condition with gunshot injuries consistent with gunshot wounds. we had three others that were transported with various other injuries, and then we have two other people who were here at the scene treated by medical staff and then released from -- by that. we've had multiple other walk-in's to different local hospitals around this area. we have to understand that we are in marion county, we are
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very near to two other counties. and some of them are going to other counties for medical treatment. so, this is where we are continuing to reach out and find out, and ask for them to call us. let us know what they saw, with a herd. it is very important that we work together on. this >> ninth, or eight dead? >> hundreds of people were gonna facility. can you tell us, do they remain open. should people report to work? what people should do this morning as their hearing this? people are asking, do i go to work, tua stay home, where do i? do >> i think the best thing to do is to contact their supervisor. or their human resources office. this building is going to be closed for a while due to this investigation. this is going to go long into the morning for a lot of components that detectives need to gather and get the evidence. >> the number of dead -- >> go ahead, i'm sorry. >> can you talk to the bravery of the officers in the first responders? as the shooting was going on,
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they were helping each other and making each other, and other people feel safe. can you give us insight into? that of my understanding, is that when officers had -- they have their jobs, but also, good samaritans who also helped one another to make sure the people were safe? >> i don't have a lot of the independent stories that you are looking for. like i said, detectives are still talking with people. we don't have that information, the officers came in, and without second thought they went in to try to help people. >> the eight dead, is the gunman part of the number of eight? >> no, he would be the ninth. >> do we know anything about the person who was found dead -- my understanding is that he was quickly found by a metro police officer i believe 17 minutes after the initial shots. can you tell us anything about that. i know there's an investigation, we don't want to get in the way of an ongoing investigation, but do you think there's anything you can tell? us >> there's a lot of information we try to gather also. we are, now it is truly to give out any preliminary information on that.
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we are still trying to ascertain the exact reason and cause for this incident. >> to the gunman going into start firing? or was it a late stage? >> courtney, that is something that we are still trying to figure out, exactly how, why, what went on. that's going to be -- this is going to be an investigation that goes on throughout the day. we are going to brief, again, this will be our last briefing from here at the scene. but we will have a press conference later on this morning, and we will notify each one of you with the exact details at this. location >> we are seeing mass shootings across the country. folks were, blue green, brown -- with all the situation, why would you want to tell the public, again waking up this morning seeing their twitter feed, their facebook feed, they're gonna watch something on television, what do you tell people who are wondering, what the heck is going on? >> that is a great question. you know, you have to look at your own life and say, you know,
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look at the positive things in your own world. and you have to keep going. and you have to look for a way to support each other. whether it is your neighbor, the guy down the street, your family member. that's where you have to start at. and you keep supporting each other. and it will always get better. thank you. >> we appreciate it. >> that was officer gym a cook of the indianapolis metro police department updating us on a mess you to get a federal express facility late last night local time there. we have just found out that eight people were killed and pronounced dead on the scene. the government also took his own life. multiple people have been shots. they've been taken to local hospitals. some extra got there on their. and we are told at one of them is critical. the gunman has not been identified, and we do not yet know a motive. but will it keep you updated as soon as we learn more. you're watching msnbc.
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a level of frustration made that makes sense. but we've gone out of. that we can vaccinate our way out of the pandemic and not have to deal with those. things but now, now that we are at that point, fox news, especially tucker carlson is now trying to undermine the vaccines. >> how effective is this coronavirus vaccine? how necessary is it to take the vaccine? don't dismiss those questions from anti-vaxxers. it is possible that this vaccine is more dangerous than they are indicating it is. why are joe biden kamala harris still wearing the silly little obedience masks everywhere they? go they have been vaccinated. so his everyone around them. so, why the masks? why the restrictions. what exactly is going on here? we know that it is not science. -- vaccines works wire vaccinated people still banned from living normal lives? maybe doesn't work enough simply not telling you that. >> yeah, why all this thing --
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why? why? i'm just asking questions, why i'm always asking. questions i don't know. i'm just asking questions. okay? all of that has been flowing over the airwaves into millions of american homes. the head of ox news parent company loughlin murdoch, he moved his family to australia. now, let's be clear here, that makes a lot of sense. of course, his father grew up there. he started his career. their lawyer knows that i don't begrudge anybody moving their family anywhere. but, it is notable, because australia is a place that basically does not have coronavirus. which would be a nice thing to. experience but you know, the reason that they don't have that is that their government undertook stringent public health measures in the beginning of the pandemic to lock people in place, to stop them from moving, around to contact trace and snuff out the virus, and when it reappeared, do you know they? did they lock down again. and when people violated the movement restrictions, which were stricter than any any state in america ever did, it was front page news and a national scandal. teenagers crossing the queen
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land border. and through those policies, the fox news were described it absolute ernie, and whip up anger against -- australia basically got rid of the virus. so, loughlin murdoch, can live in australia, in the rest of their country as if covid basically does not exist. and they can enjoy the music festivals, they can go out to eat, and have weddings, and all of that stuff. lucky. him the only reason that was possible was because of a government that was able to undertake the kinds of policies that murdoch's own network has been subverting and sabotaging from day one. the outcome of the united states is in no small part on their hands. it continues to be a to this day. because we are not out of the woods yet. this should be governor gretchen whitmer was a target of some of those vicious propaganda from fox news and donald trump over country attempts to control the pandemic. even faced down armed protesters who attacked a building inning with the kidnapping plot. her state is now suffering from the worst ever outbreak of the country. governor whitmer, thank you for joining us. first, i want to just get a top
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line lead on how this state of michigan is doing. >> well, we know that we are seeing covid all across our. state we think that we as a nation did not rally, we turn on one another. this virus has taken an incredible toll on us. we michigan still have a smart policies in place. i don't currently have all the same powers that i did a year ago but i still have a stall mask, mandate we still don't have the capacity requirements, we have some of the strongest particles in the country, and yet, this virus has come raging back. we, for a long time, kept spread amongst the lowest across the country. which means now that we have variants here, we have a lot of people that did not catch the virus. which is a good thing. but now they are vulnerable, and that is where we are really trying to push to get people vaccinated, to use monoclonal antibodies for people that are diagnosed with covid. and pulling out all the steps
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to try to get our population safe. but it is on all of us to do our part in this. juncture >> if someone reads in the news, and if all of this story, and they think, why michigan? right? it's like, michigan is not really an outlier in terms of where you are in the scale of open or closed. not particularly aggressive. it's not a niche outlier if you look at things like mobility data from google maps and things like. that is not like people are going around socializing more. what is the answer to that question in your mind? >> -- >> i think, i think we may have lost the governor who froze there. we may have her, back governor are you there? >> i am here. >> sorry about. that >> i don't know what, happen but i am back. >> the answer to the question of why michigan? what is your understanding of the wife of the public health experts in your state? >> we have been consulting with ourselves as well as national experts. it really is, for the longest time, we have under 3% public covid positivity michigan.
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we were the envy of much of the country. unfortunately, now that people are exhausted and they are moving more, and we have variants on the scene. that means we have reservoirs of people who don't have antibodies. the variants are really prevalent here in michigan. it's the dominant form of covid, or soon will be. and they're just so much easier. catch that's why we are putting so much effort into getting people vaccinated. asking everybody across our state to continue to take this seriously and double down on the protocols. follow the rules, and stay safe. and it's a really tough time. but all of these things kind of converged to create the situation where we've got a lot of covid and it is spreading fast. situation where we've got a lo of how do you have access capacity in terms of vaccination or are you vaccinating as much and as fast as you can? >> we're really proud of our vaccination efforts, we did 1 million shots in under two weeks. we're now going to beat that in
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the last nine days, we will have hit another million. we're moving fast. about 30% of our public has been fully vaccinated. we have made great strides. we just need to keep moving forward on that front and try to get people to continue taking this seriously and following the protocol. >> boris johnson who has not been a huge fan of restrictive public health measures and also in his country who has been vaccinated quite aggressively, -- an outbreak in the uk and ordered the kind of shut down for two weeks, he's now credited that breaking the pandemic. do you have to political capability of doing that in your state after all you've been through? >> i read through all the legislation and i lost in the supreme court, it was a republican dominated supreme court and i lost some of those powers. we do retain some of those
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powers but we are incredibly divided after i think the politics of the last 14 months, and so it is very difficult. we're still trying to get the legislator, just to deploy research that the trump administration -- would might seem like a natural thing to do is much more complicated than what the cdc might suggest when you look at the realities on the ground. we do have some of the strongest protocols in place, that people will double down on it and make their vaccination appointments we will get through it. >> go get vaccinated, governor gretchen, thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> as we watch the attack on the capitol unfold, we all reacted in realtime as we were watching it and the minutes ticking by. where is the backup? why haven't more police showing up? now there is a brand-new investigation from the washington post from the urgent poll --
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17 calls in 78 minutes. that is the story, next. n 78 minutes that is the story, next. that is the story, next. new febreze fade defy plug works differently. it's the first plug-in with built-in technology to digitally control how much scent is released to smell 1st day fresh for 50 days. it even tells you when it's ready to be refilled. upgrade to febreze fade defy plug.
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you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. >> it's been more than three bounce forward, with comcast business. months since the insurrection at the capitol and we still don't have a full account of the failure to overrun police in their attempts to overturn democracy. their internal watchdog testified that the capitol police had failed to adequately
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disseminate inseam intelligence, and that the officers were not warned about the threat. >> where the officers fall, we were they briefed by the supervisors prior to go wing -- >> to answer your question, no. the basic officers they were briefed totally on the intelligence that they had, and that's one of the reasons why we are saying that if they can have the ability to view any type of intelligence document, and not any type of watered down, that they get the information that they need to do their job and bc. >> testimony follows 144 page document, that they have been warned that trump supporters fueled by the president had made specific plans to target
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congress, that they were actively promoting violence. according to the report, a january 3rd threat assessment warned that they were not necessarily counter protesters but -- the stop the steal propensity to attract white supremacists, militia members and others who actively promote violence may lead to a dangerous situation for law enforcement. the failures to adequately prepare went to the capitol police being overmatched. at least 138 officers in the capitol police d.c. metropolitan police being injured. and of course the death of police officer brian sicknick. now the washington post has reconstructed how -- with one d.c. police requesting backup 78 times, the mob outnumbered the officers,. >> the violence intensified >>
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it was really a war zone. we had officers engaged in hand to hand combat. it was a fight. around this time, we asked again for reinforcement, he is told only one unit is available. >> unit 42 is the only other one, and they should come to you now. >> as unit 42 begins to make its way to the capitol, he signals that the danger has escalated. >> we're gonna try to get compliance but this is now effectively a riot. >> i'm joined now by one of the reporters who put together that amazing reconstruction event. sara, it is fantastic work, i learned a lot from it. how did you put this reconstruction of that timeline together? >> thank you for having me.
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how we brought this video together, we did something called a visual timeline. we grabbed as much footage as we can the east side in the west side of the capital, and we put it in a visual timeline, using time codes for videographers and also time coach from live streams, we were able to bring that all together and then we were able to take it communication -- the radio communication between the washington police department and paired together with the visual timeline. we were able to see what was happening and also here the npd commander requesting a 78 times backup. >> that part is what i found illuminating about that, we have found through a lot of
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footage to the program and we've been through this a lot, hearing that match with those radio calls showed a level of distress and also the fact that there was no one on the other end -- there were no people to be deployed. they keep saying, where is everyone? and they're getting what? >> yes, exactly. we do hear a response where they say that unit 42 is going to attempt to provide backup. though, [inaudible] it takes 20 minutes, over 20 minutes for them to get their. we can see in the footage that they are completely surrounded by the mob, and there is no clear path for them to get to glover and the other npd officers. >> at one point, there is an indication of something that they are asking for -- what is it? >> that team is a team that is
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going to help the officers, it's something that they could really use something that they could help and trying to protect that line, as you can see on the screen. they're really trying to protect that platform from the rioters who are trying to completely overwhelmed them and get closer to the capital. >> do we have a clear picture, the lying here, when you put all this together, you see that they're overwhelmed, that there is not really a lot of extra resources to even be called in. when you look at the ig report you see the failures of the report, do we have a definitive account of why there was no backup? which is the big question of that day. >> yeah, i think that our reconstruction continues to raise those questions. why did an office or have to request back of 17 times for 78
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minutes. why didn't they not have enough ammunition? why did they not have the protective equipment? why weren't communication completely breaking down? and you can hear it on the radio, no one is responding. it is a complete chaos, and they are expecting back up and it is just not coming. >> sarah cahlan, who worked on that great video report for the washington post. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> still ahead, we report live from chicago at the city responds to the police police video showing the officer shooting a 13 year old boy. e office shooting a 13 year old boy
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the police had to say. >> on thursday evening, the police department responded to 80 9:51 mirabel road, the fedex ground plane feel operation center. we received a call about shots fired to that location, as officers responded but, they arrived to an active shooter incident. specifically at that location. all we know that the alleged shooter has taken its life here. after preliminary search of the ground inside and out, we have located eight people at the scene with injuries consistent gunshot wounds. those aides were pronounced deceased here at the scene. we have been made aware of other people with injuries, who
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have been transported to local hospitals, or who have transported themselves to local hospital. our npd detectives are working with other officers to gather information and interviewing, not just those people who are here at the scene but also those who have gone to area hospitals seeking treatment. >> early this morning, our reporter was able to speak with one witness. >> he told us that he was inside there working when he heard gunfire, several shots. he said he looked up to see a gunman, the gunman did not see him, he ducked down. he says the dubbed the gunman continue to fire he hurt several more shots, he said that when he was trying to leave the plant and get out. he did see one person injured on the ground, he wasn't sure how badly, but that person was
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on the ground he said and not moving. >> fedex released a statement saying that we are aware of the tragic shooting at our ground facility near the indianapolis airport, safety is our top priority, and our thoughts go to all of those who have been affected. we are cooperating with investigating authorities. once again, at least eight people killed in a mass shooting in indianapolis. police say the shooter took his own life, we will continue to follow this developing story throughout the morning in msnbc and on nbc news .com. >> it would be traumatizing to watch as it would be any video of a 13 your shot in that manner. which people are shocked by is that there were none of these elements that prosecutors in enters in the cities led them to pool leave was going to be there. people hear saw a 13 year old with his hands up complying with an officer's order. and so in addition to the anger
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that people feel, people here feel an extreme level of betrayal and heartbreak, and the family is calling for calm, people have respected their wishes. but you can see the hurt play out throughout the night. >> we should note antonia that the context here in the city of chicago, a city that has paid $7 million in police lawsuits over the last decade, this is a city where -- a teenage boy was shot and killed by police, and at first initial account was that he had been a threat, or that he had launched towards an officer, and that videotape was kept under wraps subsequently released. there is a deep, fundamental contextual distrust here that even proceeds this incident? >> that is exactly right, and actually in the crowd tonight there are a couple of mothers
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of other young boys who were murdered by a chicago police officers, and they have formed a club here of people who have been in some cases, for decades, raising alarms about this, you know, in the case of adam toledo's family they were able to see the video and haven't released publicly relatively quickly when we compared to pass cases in chicago. one of the mothers talk to me tonight about how there is a pattern -- they feel like the city mobilizes, officials mobilize, a narrative comes out, about these kids who are in their early twenties or teens, and in this boy's case, and the narrative is said that they are, you know, demonized in some ways, responsible for their own deaths and that these mothers have basically come together and are part of this club, and they never wanted to be a part of it, in some cases, they are grateful to have each other, but they are shocked and disturbed that here they are and it's 2021, and they are
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still here with all these cases that have similar patterns and they're still fighting for the same cause. >> our reporter who is live at the city of chicago, thank you for that update, we appreciate it. tonight former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin pleads the fifth and the defense rests. we will talk about what happens next right after this. t happen next right after this. fabric refresher. with 2 times the scent power of regular febreze, unstopables fabric finds, neutralizes and eliminates tough odors trapped in hard-to-wash fabrics, like couches or smelly sports equipment; leaving an irresistibly fresh scent. and for a tropical burst of freshness, try new paradise scent. stop sneaky odors from lingering in your home, with febreze unstopables. age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond.
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sweet pillows of softness! this is soft! holy charmin! excuse me! roll it back everybody! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less. enjoy the go with charmin. >> today was the final day of testimony in the trial of derek chauvin, it ended with him invoking his fifth amendment right not to testify. closing arguments are now set to begin on monday. i think if you have been watching this network, following the trial, it is very hard to see how this man could be acquitted. and yet, let's remember the context here. first of all, these are jurors who were selected for not knowing much about the case or forming an opinion on it and this was the most publicized news story in america last
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year. so, if you are the kind of person who follows the news every day, it is hard to see what is going through the mind of the jurors whose perception may be influenced. secondly, it is of course the history of police violence against unarmed black people reported on camera that has not lead to conviction. the most iconic example is 30 years ago, the trial of police officer who beat rodney king. >> a black man whose car had been stopped by police officers was in the street. for an individual took the videotape after hearing the rock is going on. the amateur cameramen said that it appeared that the suspect was trying to cooperate and beating began. >> that moment is in everyone's mind, it is one of the first moment that a bystander was able to capture what happened for all the world to see. and yet, those for l.a. police
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officers were acquitted. in 2014, here in new york, there was of course erik gardner, the former police officer putting gardner in that chokehold, he was then sworn by officers who fell to the ground and his final words were i can't breathe. and yet, the grand jury decided to indict the in the officer, he did not even go to trial. one year later there was the incredible case of walter scout, we covered that case. he was pulled over for a broken taillight, after a brief interaction he ran. the officer put three bullets in his back. the killing was recorded on a cell phone, the officer was charged with murder. but a judge declared a mistrial because -- he was convicted on federal charges of second degree murder. those are some of the examples, we could liselotte more. no one should have any illusions about the outcome of this trial being in any way
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decided. david henderson is civil rights attorney has been following the trial and he joins me now. i guess first your thoughts on that note as someone who has practice as a prosecutor and a civil defense attorney about the in determines factor? >> well chris, from the example you mentioned, walter scott is the one that stands out the most, because i do see a possible for a hunger jury anytime a police officers on trial. the problem with the examples that you offer it is more the lines of i don't know the prosecutors in this cases are commitment -- they do whatever the prosecution tells them to do, the fact that they didn't even indict him says to me that the prosecutors were not committed to the case. >> one thing that people have noted about the strength of this case, on the prosecutorial stand for standpoint is that you have them lined up behind
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the prosecution, which people have noted as different to other cases that they've seen. >> that is absolutely true. i think that represents problems for this case in that the minneapolis police department is not innocent. derek chauvin is guilty, that doesn't make the police department innocent. that said, you have had, police officers lining up to testify, you've had the police chief coming in to testify, and you've had the best team of experts that i could ever remember seeing in a criminal case to testify on behalf on the side representing george floyd and trying to convict derek chauvin. if you add things up, and you can fight them with the diversity of the jury, i'm not aware of the jury that was this diverse where a police officer was exonerated for killing an unarmed black person. >> let me play the exchange between derek chauvin as he invokes his fifth amendment. i found it strange to watch
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because we're hearing derek chauvin speak for the first time, it was also an interesting back and forth. take a listen. >> we've had this conversation repeatedly, correct? >> correct. >> i've had repeatedly advised you that this is your decision and your decision alone. right? >> correct. >> i've had i've advised you and we have going back and forth on the matter and we have an understanding. >> yes it is. >> have you made a decision, today, about whether you intend to testify or whether you intend to invoke your fifth amendment privileges? >> i will invoke my fifth amendment privilege today. >> an important constitutional right that he has access to injuries cannot negatively infer anything from that decision. what do you think about the decision and the context of the trial? >> and the context of the trial, i think it was the right decision. now, i think the defense should've taken a completely different approach to this trial from the beginning, i think they should've put it in context that the police
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problems are systemic and that derek chauvin was part of the systemic problems. they chose not to do that and given that they chose not to do that, it makes sense for him not to take the stand. he's going to take the stand and say something in on the lines of i did my job and i would do it again. it makes sense not to put him on the stand because he is going to make matters worse by testifying. >> let's return back to the first thing you said about a hung jury which happened in the previous trial. why did you -- why do you think about that is a possibility here? >> because chris, we don't know much about these people, even during jury selection the types of questions that were asked didn't really show to the point where we know who is a leader. if you just look at the reaction across the country, in fact, takes what is going on in minneapolis right now with daunte wright's right killing. you have the thin blue line
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flying on top, it there is a huge divide about police reform. it is not hard to believe that there is somebody on the jury that believes very strongly and ideas like blue lives matter. >> this is what the judge had to say to the jury as they prepare to what's going to be obviously a very intensive portion for them after closing arguments. take a listen. >> i think the one thing that you need to know today as you leave as how much do i pack. if i were you, i would plan for long and hope for short. basically, it is up to the jury how long to deliberate, how long you need to come up with a unanimous decision. >> how important are the instructions going to be in this trial? >> i think the instructions are important but here is the problem, if the jurors go back there and they're really arguing on the instructions that is going to be a problem. now the prosecution had a challenge in this case because of the way that they've chosen
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to indict jay rick chauvin, you have three different charges that all involve the exact same conduct, and somehow in closing arguments you will have to make a clear that that same conduct can lead to derek chauvin being convicted on one, two or all three of those charges. if for example you had a murder based on someone robbing a bank or someone gets killed in the conflict of robbing a bank, it makes sense to argue two charges. but here you have the same conduct and you're trying to make someone guilty three different ways, that is how the jury instruction can become confusing and problematic during deliberation. >> that is a really good point, they're trying to create insurance but it also creates some confusion. why do you need to three different charges? that was very illuminating, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> next republicans ensure the -- while the conservative majority for years to come, but there is a way to balance things out maybe? this senator is on a push to expand the court after this. expand the court after this. car stench
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ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. >> our democracy is in jeopardy bounce forward, with comcast business. today because the supreme court standing is damaged, and the way we are prepared a straightforward, we undo the damage that the republicans have done by restoring balance and we do it by adding four seats to the court to create a 13 member supreme court.
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>> how do you solve a problem like the court, a court that has six out of nine justices that are well, ideologically to the right? well, maybe you can just increase the number of supreme court justices,. does that sound impossible? maybe. but it is not impossible because the constitution says you can't, it's just a matter of getting enough people on board with doing it, you could pass bills and signed them into law and then it happens. and there are people out there who want to do it, people for instance like ed markey and a group of lawmakers who proposed a bill to expand the seats. he and his colleagues made the announcement and nancy pelosi said she had no plans to bring it to the floor. but, you know, figuring out a way to deal with the roberts court which has a lot of people who are quite young is going to be important if democrats want
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to do things like protect reproductive rights and crucially voting rights. the senator who propose that bill which -- ed markey joins me now. first of all senator markey, talk me through if you are successful, how the bill would work? >> well, the bill would amend the u.s. code and it would increase the number of supreme court justices from 9 to 13. the number nine is not in the united states constitution. originally, we only had six supreme court justices. the number has been changed, 6 to 7 times in our history. it just requires an alteration of the u.s. code and it would be done by congress and so, we want to begin this debate, because of the historically unprecedented actions which the republicans have taken over the last five years to seal two
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supreme seats. >> the historic precedent here that people i think are called to mind is the new deal, he was pushing this new progressive legislation in a time of crisis with the conservative court and they kept striking it down. but, that is also, i think, it is an iconic example of overreach. would you say to people who say that this is a -- that is dangerous and crazy and wild eyed? >> well i would say that the republicans just engage in crazy, wild, overreach when he passed away, the republicans decided that he would keep the vacancy for 14 months, and not allow barack obama to have a replacement who would be confirmed. 14 months a vacancy.
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only eight supreme court justices for those 14 months. and then, after saying that it was a tradition that there was no confirmation during election year, in 2020, when justice ginsburg passed away, a week before the election, the republican confirmed amy. so they stole two seats, straight up. it was outrageous. and it led to a 6 to 3 court, which unfortunately, on civil rights, women's right to choose, environmental issues, voting right issues, up to now, overturn. >> how would you classify the level of support for this legislation among just the democratic caucus? i'm not sure, right now, it is even a 50% proposition among democrats.
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>> well, all issues go through three phases, political activation, political -- so, i think everyone with would stipulate that with the republicans did was historically egregious, stealing those two seats. what is going to become more more apparent, as each month goes by, as each decision is made by the supreme court in changing fundamental deadlock principles, that have been established for generations. there is going to be a building crescendo that demands that there be a change in the supreme court, otherwise, the republicans will have their all-time wish list that they're able through the supreme court, bringing up cases to the district courts which they packed over the last four years to overturn a progressive, laws, a progressive legislation that has been on the books to protect americans. >> do you think there is a sort of pillage to coal pause not to
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do that, while the issue is hot? >> i don't know that. i do know that democracy is on trial, what happened over the last five years, from the year before trump was actually sworn in to the day he left, it was a assault on the integrity of the supreme court. the supreme court is fundamentally broken and ultimately, i think that we can anticipate decisions that emanates from the supreme court, that are absolutely going to create a public cry for a change in the number of supreme courts and they cannot continue undermining their destruction of historic progressive laws, that happen on the books. >> ed markey of massachusetts have introduced that legislation to expand the court to 13 members, thank you so much for your time. >> you're welcome, thank you. >> that is all in for this thursday evening, rachel
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meadow's show starts now. >> good evening, i much appreciated. and thank you for joining us this hour. u for joining us this hour. officials have been told by the biden administration that they've got 30 days to leave the united states. now, i'm being a little bit ei woolly about what their jobs are, because in instances like this, the general perception is that the russians are being kicked out of the country r tonight even though they may work at the embassy or the ev consulate, the perception generally is these folks are being asked to leave because as they are not legitimate diplomats. again, generally speaking, the idea here is that whoever the guy is is not really like the trade attache at the embassy or something, he's actually a spy, intelligence personnel, spies for the russian government, en working here with the cover story that they're somehow employed by the embassy.


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