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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  April 15, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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spaces where you can actually talk directly to me, to joyce vance, to david henderson. it's an audio platform that's brand new. we'll take your questions, answer them, get into some of the big issues in this trial. go to @arimelber on on twitter at 3:00 p.m. tomorrow to see more. thank you very much. that does it for us. "the reid-out with joy reid" starts now. good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" with the murder trial of derek chauvin. when our doubts about whether policing is just irreconcilably broken when it comes to people of color have no choice but to crystallize with two other cases of people being killed by police coming more and more into focus. former brooklyn center police officer kim potter made her
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first court appearance today, four days after she shot and killed 20-year-old daunte wright. in chicago, authorities released body camera video that shows a 13-year-old boy being shot and killed by a police officer on march 29th. we'll have more on those stories coming up, but first a big day in the chauvin trial. a trial that many of you have been closely following on live national tv for more than two weeks. the 45 witnesses from police officers to forensic scientists to george floyd's own brother all culminated today with the defense resting its case after just two days of testimony. without putting chauvin himself on the stand. we did hear from him for the first time today, however, in a pretrial hearing in which he availed himself of his fifth amendment rights. >> have you made a decision today whether you intend to testify or whether you intend to invoke your fifth amendment privilege? >> i will invoke my fifth amendment privilege today. >> you may also recall from
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yesterday defense witness dr. david fowler, a forensic pathologist who was paid to blame everything other than derek chauvin for the death of george floyd, including carbon monoxide poisoning. a frankly bizarre theory saying floyd's face pointing towards the exhaust pipe of a gas/electric hybrid police squad car. he had no data how much carbon monoxide was being released or even if the car was on. today the prosecution called one of its most impactful witnesses, pulmonologist dr. martin tobin to refute this so-called expert's claim. >> the protein in the blood that carries the oxygen, how much of that hemoglobin is saturated with oxygen. and we know in mr. floyd that it was 98% saturated. >> does that tell us anything whatsoever about what the carbon monoxide content could have been at a maximum? >> yes, it does.
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it tells us that if the -- if the hemoglobin is saturated at 98%, it tells you all there was for everything else is 2% and so the maximum amount of carbon monoxide would be 2%. >> was at most 2%. >> at most 2%. >> normal. >> which is normal. >> again, dr. martin tobin, a long and critical care expert testifying that car exhaust did not kill george floyd. but you knew that already. closing arguments are set for monday after which the jury will be sequestered during deliberations. we could see a verdict as soon as next week. joining me now is shaquille brewster who's been following the story in minneapolis. i want to get both sides of this piece for our viewers tonight, shaq. the case itself, your observations of just how things are playing out at this point? >> reporter: well, joy, we really watched this case wrap up
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fairly quickly. we walked into today expecting to hear from more witnesses. we know that there was a witness that was slated for yesterday who we thought was going to be the first witness today. instead we saw that surprise moment where we heard derek chauvin's voice in the courtroom for the very first time. it was not his testimony, it was instead him saying that he was going to invoke his fifth amendment protections and not testify. we also heard some back-and-forth over that claim that we heard from dr. fowler yesterday, the defense's witness who said and suggested that george floyd died, one of the reasons at least was carbon monoxide poisoning. the defense kept on with that claim and we heard the prosecution bring back that rebuttal witness, dr. tobin, to wrap up. it was a quick direct examination, a quick cross examination, but it really set and laid through to the end the two sides of this argument. you have the defense pointing to george floyd's heart condition and pointing to his drug use and saying that was the reason why he died, while the prosecution has spent weeks saying that it
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was the use of force and the knee on george floyd's neck and upper back, that is what led to george floyd's death. so now this will be in the hands of the jury. what we know is to come is closing arguments that will take place on monday. after that, the jury will get jury instructions. that's something that the prosecution and the defense, they are still arguing about right now. they had a late afternoon court hearing about what exactly they want included in those instructions. and then it will be up to the jury. the judge warned the jury earlier today that they should pack a bag. you know, it's up to them how long they take to deliberate, but after this long trial, it will be in their hands at some point next week, joy. >> yeah. i don't envy them. this is a pretty big burden for them to have to carry. let's talk about the community because you've been out and about. i've been watching your great reporting just in and around the minneapolis area. how are people reacting to the developments as they're going on? >> you know, it's really a mix. first, it's hard to miss the
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idea that this trial is happening and that a verdict is coming up soon. look behind me. you see the armored vehicles, the fencing. if you go around the downtown area, you see a lot of businesses boarded up. that has only expanded. we know thousands of national guard troops are deployed in this area. not only in minneapolis, but of course brooklyn center with the shooting of daunte wright. so you have that tension there. but it also is important to note that many people that i talked to, people that i met during the protests last summer, they are avoiding this. they have not been paying attention to the trial. they say it just brings them more trauma. they know that a verdict is coming. they know that there will be that decision and some sort of reaction to it but you have a mix of people who are laser focused on it and people who are trying their best to avoid the reality. >> yeah. you can certainly understand that because it is, it's a lot right now. shaquille brewster, shaq, you've been doing a great job. thank you for being here this evening. >> thank you.
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joining me now is msnbc legal contributor katie phang and jason johnson. so katie, i think for every lawyer and former and current prosecutor, today was a tense day to watch the prosecution have to watch a pretty narrow tight rope, because there was a mistrial floated by the judge. can you just walk us through what happened today, and what prosecutor blackwell had to pull off with dr. tobin? >> yeah. so most of the legal drama, joy, today happened behind the scenes and outside the presence of the jury. there was a late disclosed lab report that dr. andrew baker, the hennepin county medical examiner who conducted the only autopsy of george floyd. within that late produced lab result was actual information about carbon monoxide, which we had heard about from dr. fowler for the very first time when he took the stand on behalf of the defense yesterday. but the reason why it created drama was the judge said that
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this late disclosure caused too much prejudice for the defense and excluded the use of that lab result. and so the judge said to mr. blackwell on behalf of the prosecution, make sure that dr. tobin when he's called as the rebuttal witness doesn't mention it. if i hear it and the jury hears it, it's a mistrial. you can imagine after weeks and dozens of witnesses how nervous we all were. but actually it was a win for the prosecution. why? because normally you have the prosecution's case, the defense's case and then the defense rests its case and the jury gets to deliberate. the state got to end the trial, in terms of the presentation of the facts and the evidence on a high note with the rebuttal witness of dr. tobin. and so the jury got to see the very likeable, very relatable, very understandable dr. tobin say very clearly that there was 2% capability of carbon monoxide in mr. floyd's blood. but also mr. blackwell said you're not going to confuse the jury, right, dr. fowler?
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right, dr. fowler? and so the jury was able to hear it again. no mistrial. the jury gets to deliberate starting on monday, but they have to be sensitive to the fact that there was daunte wright's killer was in court today, kim potter, and the release of the chicago video of adam toledo was released and the jurors may or may not be aware of that, joy. >> and so the tension around this, jason, couldn't be tighter because you've got multiple killings and people, just because they're in minneapolis, doesn't mean they haven't heard about the virginia takedown of this army officer or the case in texas. all of these killings and now a 13-year-old in chicago. i just want to go through some polling. polling isn't everything, but we're going to use it tonight to set a stage here. monmouth university did a poll and asked people what they think the impact on race relations would be of an acquittal if it were to happen. and it says if chauvin is found not guilty of murder, 5% say it would be positive for race
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relations, 63% said negative, 29% say it wouldn't make a difference, which is sort of sad. when you break down bipartisanship, it's quite different. white americans who are democrats and independents and white americans who are republicans have very different views. democrats and independents say bad for race relations. white republicans don't think so. so this trial like everything else is about our politics, jason. >> yeah. first off, i want to know who this 5% is that think derek chauvin getting off would be good for america. i'm just curious who those people are and if they work for tucker. but here's the thing to remember, joy, and i've said this all along. demographics are destiny, right? the makeup of jury pools has so much to do with whether or not we're going to get the justice we want and that's how america looks at these kind of issues. it is very clear that what's happening in this trial today can't be separated from what everyone has seen all along.
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we've had two additional shootings come out since this trial began. i think at this point it's impossible for americans to look at what's happening with derek chauvin and say this is an isolated incident, i can't compare it to everything else. but here's the most dangerous thing, joy, and i've said all along it looks -- it's a very hard case for the defense. i think chauvin will ending up being convicted. but he is not just the sacrificial lamb that american policing can use to say this is a bad apple and avoid the longer conversation. that's what my concern is. even the people who say that his conviction will help race relations, if nothing changes in policing, he was just a scapegoat. it was a make-up call for a much larger problem. >> when pat robertson comes out and says this is terrible. i've got the two different weapons here, this is terrible. we've got to start hiring better quality of cops. when pat robertson is going there, we may not have time to have our guests react to it, but here are just derek chauvin's
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former colleagues, just the cops who testified. take a listen. >> is this an mpd trained neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> has it ever been? >> not to my -- neck restraint? no, sir. >> i don't know what kind of improvised position that is. so that's not what we train. >> and as part of your training within the minneapolis police department policies, is there an obligation to provide medical intervention when necessary? >> absolutely. >> is it your belief then that this particular form of restraint, if that's what you -- if that's what we'll call it, in fact violates departmental policy? >> i absolutely agree that violates our policy. >> and ladies and gentlemen, i have never seen a cop, let alone that many police officers, testify against a fellow police officer. if derek chauvin is convicted, it will be because of that and
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because of mr. tobin, who i want to take a class from. katie phang and jason johnson, i want to take a class from both of y'all too as well. thank you very much. up next on "the reidout" a deeper look at the america's policing crisis. the former police officer who shot and killed daunte wright makes her first appearance in court. as we get our first look at the body cam video in the killing of a 13-year-old boy by a chicago police officer. plus, the government finally connects the dots between the 2016 trump campaign and russian intelligence. no collusion, you say? no. collusion. and then there's tonight's absolute worst. >> dating back to your days in school when you seemed to argue that african-americans were genetically superior to caucasians. >> nope, no, sir. no, that did not happen. the shameless and embarrassing republican effort to smear a black woman who's in line to lead the doj civil rights division. "the reidout" continues after this. this
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protests continued last night in brooklyn center, minnesota, where with 22 people arrested after the officer who killed daunte wright was charged with second-degree manslaughter. kim potter who faces up to ten years in prison and a fine up to $20,000 was released from custody after posting a $100,000 bond. potter appeared in court today where the judge set the date for her next hearing at may 17th. wright's family members addressed the charges today at a news conference. >> unfortunately, there's never going to be justice for us. the justice would bring our son home to us. >> charge her. charge to the max. we can't have him back, so why should she get back in her life. >> manslaughter? y'all see the difference? this is a taser.
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this is a taser. but no, my nephew was killed with this, a glock. >> meanwhile tensions are also high in chicago, where police today released body cam footage in the fatal shooting of a seventh grader last month. 13-year-old adam toledo was shot and killed on march 29th. before the video was released, chicago mayor lori lightfoot appealed to residents for calm calling the video excruciating. it is disturbing and we'll freeze the video just before the shot is fired. >> police, stop! stop right now! show me your [ bleep ] hands! stop! shots fired, shots fired, get an ambulance here now. look at me, look at me. you all right? >> okay.
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so this is a textbook example of why in our job in the media we need to treat statements from the police with the same skepticism that we would treat utterances from any other government entity, because what police say in statements is not necessarily the truth. it's their claim. and that claim, like any other, deserves to be interrogated before we take it as fact. the officer who shot this 13-year-old boy claimed in his report to his bosses that he repeatedly told the teenager to drop it, which you heard him yell it on the body cam video and toledo refused to show his hands and was shot in the chest when he turned toward the officer. police also allege that the 13-year-old had a gun. but a still frame from the video shows the kid's hands up and apparently empty at the time the officer shot him. those two things, the police official account and what we see in that still and in that video don't quite track, do they? last weekend a prosecutor said
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during a court appearance that toledo was holding a gun as he turned toward the officer. well, today the cook county attorney, state's attorney said that that prosecutor failed to fully inform himself before speaking, so that doesn't track either. police also claimed a weapon was discovered at the scene, as have prosecutors. the officer who shot adam toledo has not been charged and is currently on administrative leave. we are left to sort out the truth of this story from here, as are authorities in chicago, to say nothing of the family of a now very much dead 13-year-old child. joining me now is former detroit police chief and elizer darius, activist and organizer. thank you both for being here. chief gobbie, people assume police when they put out a statement are telling the truth,
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but that just isn't true, is it? >> we have lost the benefit of the doubt. unfortunately the credibility to you can trust a police officer's statement, we have wasted that capital with the community and with the advent of the cell phone camera and now the body-worn cameras. the camera -- it's not our lying eyes, we see what we see. now, in this instant i will say that the officer had a split second to make a decision. what you don't know, which i was able to see on the video, using a technology called shot spotters, it's a gunshot try angulation system points you in the area where gunshots were heard. there was a call for service where the gunshots were called out. so the officer had a reasonable belief or suspicion that there was a gun in the area. where you lose credibility is when you say you saw the gun and when you see the still frame,
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there is not a gun. there is a gun in another frame from another perspective but absent a gunshot residue test, we will not know necessarily if that was a gun that was possessed by adam. >> here's the question. i don't know, did he have a split second? let me play what ben crump said about the way police treat white people who are known to kill a bunch of people and how they treat black people. >> the parkland high school killer, they followed him. they took him alive. the white man who just killed the people in the asian spa in atlanta, they took him alive. but yet when you have a black person who ain't killed nobody, they shoot first and ask
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questions later. >> see, chief, the problem that i have with he had a split second decision, the parkland killer just killed a bunch of people. police took a lot more than a second deciding what they're going to do before they calmly took him into custody. the guy who shot up multiple spas, you knew he had a gun because he killed a bunch of people. when they rolled up on him, they had a reasonable case that he had a gun and might have killed them. they didn't use the gun fast. with this 13-year-old child they didn't wait ten seconds before opening up on him like it was a drive-by. he didn't wait to assess what that child was doing and that child was standing there with his hands up with nothing in them. that's the reason that people don't buy that he had a split-second decision. >> no, and joy, fundamentally i agree with you. i made the same arguments very publicly. i've become a pariah somewhat in the police community but i do have to give some perspective because other things that
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transpired as well. different than chauvin who was aloof to the condition or didn't give a damn about george floyd's condition, immediately this officer rendered a -- started doing chest compressions and tried to do everything he could to aid the young man. not excused at all and you make an excellent point and i do agree with attorney crump. that's why we can't look anecdotally with each individual situation but we've got to look collectively and systemically and at the end of the day black people still ending up killed by the police. >> elizer, i want to throw it back over to you because i want some perspective other than my own angry mom perspective. where do you sit here in watching these death after death after death children, women in their bed. it's a lot for me, but i know for you you're much closer to it as an activist. >> yes. and should so much for having me on the show. it's an absolute blessing, i've been watching you for many years
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and i respect the manner in which you deliver truth to the people. i would say watching that clip is very horrific. much of what we see and much of what we have been seeing is extraordinarily and exceedingly horrific and these are traumas that we are repeatedly seeing again and again and again and again. even if aid was rendered to that young man, i wouldn't say that that absolves any level of responsibility or shows any level of guilt or anything like that. likely there was a departmental policy that required this officer with the usage of force to then render aid. so that was likely a required standard that department had. that was a split-second decision that in many other instances when you have a blond-haired blue eyed boy they don't use
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deadly force. somehow we aren't find ourselves on the other end of these multiple beats they're putting between using deadly force and not use deadly force. it's extremely frustrating to keep hearing the same drumbeat of, you know, their alleged fear to use force based off an alleged need to kill some type of a threat. so to see this young man turn with his hands up and to not hear more commands, a singular command, and then to see this officer actually lie on his report, it's not shocking to me. literally i'm probably maybe two minutes walking from where george floyd was murdered. i can get out of my house and walk two minutes and i'll be right there at george floyd square. let me just walk back a little bit about what happened on the night that they murdered george floyd. so we had began getting a local organizer had been organizing several years in the twin cities and we had been getting calls
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from a mother whose son was murdered by the police. she had began hearing that there was a man who was murdered by the minneapolis police and that it supposedly happened really close to where i lived. i had heard nothing about this. i left my house and began talking to people locally there. the people locally there began telling me that, yes, the police actually killed a man. i was told at the time they put their foot on someone's neck. i then began questioning some of the officers. i even called the chief and then the chief and others said that there was a medical emergency that led to this young -- that led to george floyd's death and that was the reports, the official reports that was coming from the police department. but that was totally and wholly different than the reports that i had began getting from people who was on the scene itself. and so right here in this instant situation we see the same exact situation in which we have these reports that were
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given out by police officers that now with our own eyes we see are fundamentally different than the facts. >> yeah. and that is the problem. that is why it's so important for us on this end of the desk here as far as journalists, we can't just take these reports as fact. there is what someone says and what they claim. these are claims. they are not statements of fact. when they're coming from police, you just can't assume that they're factual because we then get the video and it turns out it ain't quite true. ralph godbee, it's always great talking to you. elizer dareus, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. still ahead, the biden administration is slapping new sanctions on russia over its cyberattacks and election interference. plus, new information disclosed in those sanctions allows us to connect some very important collusion-related dots about the trump campaign. we'll be right back. l be right c . ♪ back in black) ♪ ♪ ♪
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40 entities and individuals in that country. he's striking back at the kremlin for their repeated attacks on the u.s., including their election interference in 2020 and the solarwinds cyberattack. that's the massive hacking operation discovered late last year which compromised dozens of government agencies and private companies. this is the first time the u.s. has formally accused russia of that cyberattack on us after the former president had turned a blind eye. in contrast, president biden is putting his money where his mouth is. in an interview last month, biden readily agreed that vladimir putin is a killer whereas donald trump defended putin from that exact same charge. >> so you know vladimir putin. do you think he's a killer? >> mm-hmm, i do. >> putin is a killer. >> there's a lot of killers. we've got a lot of killers. you think our country is so innocent? >> while trump was complicit in the face of russian aggression, biden's hard line has left putin rattled. now putin is acting out using ukraine as a pawn in his game of
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chicken against the u.s. he's amassing troops on the border of that country in an attempt to provoke a confrontation. russian state tv is warning that an all-out cyber war with the u.s. is inevitable. it comes after putin threw his chief political rival, alexander navalny, in prison where he's threatened with force feeding during his hunger strike and deteriorating healthwise. just last week putin signed a law allowing him to stay in power for another 15 years until 2036. meanwhile today's announcement on sanctions included other explosive news. for the first time the u.s. government confirmed that russian intelligence actually received privileged campaign data that trump campaign chairman paul manafort handed over to his associate, konstantin kilimnick in 2016. if that's not collusion with a foreign adversary, i don't know what is. joining me now is congressman jason crow of colorado who served as an impeachment manager during trump's first impeachment. congressman, i want to take you
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back to some of the evidence that donald trump had an interest in having russia help him win the election. you will recognize this video. take a listen. >> i think i'd get along very well with vladimir putin. i just think so. putin said donald trump is a genius. he's going to be the next great leader of the united states. russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. if putin likes donald trump, i consider that an asset, not a liability. >> you don't think it's funny that they, the russians, tried to meddle in the election. >> that i don't know. i believe that president putin really feels, and he feels strongly, that he did not meddle in our election. i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this, i don't see any reason why it would be. what i said is none of your business. >> does this new information provide the smoking gun that the
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impeachment lacked at the time? >> hi, joy. thanks for having me on. that walk down memory lane just actually makes me feel so relieved that joe biden is sitting in the white house right now. i mean how stark of a contrast is it between joe biden's deliberate focus, strategic tough approach to russia. no tweeting, no bluster, no chest pounding compared to donald trump. but, you know, listen, the signals were there all along, right? we have known for a long time that russia is a threat to us, that they have been attacking us, that they have been meddling in our elections and they haven't been doing so equally. that they have favored donald trump for a very long time, which raises the question to why. the answer to why is because he was soft on them. he allowed vladimir putin to do whatever he wanted. plus you add to that that donald trump was able to accomplish
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something for vladimir putin that vladimir putin was never able to accomplish on his own. as he brought chaos and dysfunction to our government and to our society that vladimir putin couldn't have dreamed of ever bringing on his own, so it would make sense that he would meddle in this way. >> i have to ask do you think that this was a failing of the mueller report that they didn't pursue this line of reasoning. they assessed the collusion because it is not a criminal defense nor a term of art in criminal law, they didn't pursue collusion. but they did find manafort sent internal polling data but manafort briefed kilimnick on the state of the campaign. the briefing encompassed internal polling data and it focused on michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, minnesota. those were three of the four -- three of those four states delivered the election to trump. do you wish that mueller had gone a little further down that
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road to provide more information earlier? because we could have known this then. >> yeah, there are things that i wish they had investigated and that they had made more clear in the report that certainly true, no doubt about that. but do i think it would have made a difference? i don't think so necessarily. i mean, listen, we have not lacked evidence of donald trump's wrongdoing. at any course in his presidency, right? he incited an insurrection that resulted in the death of a police officer and the attack on the capitol. and yet the senate still didn't impeach him. so whether one additional thing or bit of evidence would have changed the course of history here, i'm not sure. >> right. >> but, you know, what i've been saying all along is this. we would get the facts. we've been saying this. you can not call witnesses, we'll get there eventually and we're seeing that happen. >> last question, how much danger do you think that we remain in vis-a-vis russia? and how much danger is ukraine
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in? >> i think the danger is high and i think it's increasing. you know, we underestimate putin and russia at our own peril. vladimir putin couldn't care less about delivering health care to the russian people, couldn't care less about economic development. vladimir putin wakes up every morning and goes to bed at night trying to think about how to destroy american democracy and sow dysfunction in our country. that's what he thinks about. and i think we would be wise to start taking him seriously. it's good to see the administration and president biden doing so. >> indeed. that and being president for life which apparently he also aspires to be. congressman jason crow, thank you for being here tonight. up next, tonight's absolute worst. stay with us. worst. stay with us to make thinkorswim even better, we listen. because platforms this innovative, aren't just made for traders-they're made by them. thinkorswim trading. from td ameritrade. hi, i'm debra.
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kristen clark is set to make history as president biden's pick to become the first woman
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and first woman of color to lead the justice department's civil rights division. her story is the american story. the daughter of jamaican immigrants who grew up in public housing. her nomination comes at a critical time in america and for the department and after months of social justice protests. she has vowed to use her experience as an accomplished civil rights attorney and the single mother of a black teenager to make racial equality a top priority. >> i remain committed to the promise of working every day to build a world of equal opportunity for all, a world where no 16-year-old is the target of hateful language. a world where no young man is racially profiled. i dream of a world that valueless his mind, his heart and his exceptional soccer skills and does not push him aside because of the color of his skin. i dream of that every child in america. >> now, you would think that that is an admirable goal.
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but not to the republican man of the senate judiciary committee, no, no, who spent their time lecturing the harvard and columbia graduate on the subject of race. >> i want to read a nonexhaustive list of elements of the american society, elements that you have at one point or another described in the past as racist. police departments, federal agencies, airbnb, election laws designed to combat fraud, the workplace, america's dna, the virginia military institute, the health care industry, federal courts and the department of justice. now, you've worked for the department of justice and with the federal courts. were those institutions racist when you worked there? >> senator, i don't have the context for the list that you just ran through. >> have you described them as racist in the past? >> i generally use the term discrimination. i'm a lawyer, i follow the facts. >> was officer darren wilson
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justified or not in the shooting of michael brown in ferguson, missouri, in 2014. >> as a private citizen, there is something that feels unfair. >> the department of justice issued an 87-page report. that's not a private -- that's not grand jury sensitive information. that's not secret. an 87-page report released. it concluded the shooting was justified. >> right. well, my -- >> you obviously do not want to take the position that the shooting was justified despite what eric holder has said given the fact that you won't answer the simple question yes or no. >> well, that guy, senator tom cotton from arkansas, seems to thrive on the politics of vindictiveness. in 2014 cotton reportedly put a hold on the nomination of cassandra butts to be ambassador to the bahamas. she died of leukemia while waiting for cotton to lift the hold on that black woman. i would also like to point out that hours after clarke's
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hearing yesterday, cotton joined senators hawley and cruz, former members of the committee, in voting against a bipartisan bill on anti-asian hate crimes. so, my friends, today's ignominious award for the absolute worst goes to the republican men of the senate judiciary committee who managed to mansplain and whitesplain to this woman. but there's more. there's one that we had to set him aside for special scrutiny, and that is next. is ne xt
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republicans came to kristen clark's confirmation hearing, guns blazing with lots of vitriol in their little spirits, for some reason. i mean, something. something about christian clark just really seemed to get under their skin. perhaps, they were just more interested in scoring brownie points with their xenophobic friends at fox news than actually giving clark a fair hearing. it was something else about her. i will just noodle on it, along with you. clark is president biden's choice to lead the civil-rights division at the department of justice. but, here's what's fun. some of these guys, like texas senator, john cornyn, didn't seem to do their homework before coming to class. take a look at this exchange. >> you seem to argue that african-americans were genetically superior to caucasians.
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is that correct? >> no, senator. that -- i believe, you're referring to an op-ed that i wrote at the age of 19, about the bell-curve theory. racist book that equated dna with genetics and race. as a black student, at harvard, that time, we took grave offense to this book. this op-ed opened with a satirical reference to -- to the statement that you just noted. >> this is satire? >> absolutely, senator. >> this is satire? that's my favorite line. with me, now, is michael steel. former-chairman of the rnc and reverend mark thompson, host of the make it plain podcast. michael, i hate to put you in a position of having to explain these people. what do you mean, satire? are you telling me that "the simpsons" is not a documentary about a family from the midwest? >> okay. so -- so, the two moments here,
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joy, that i thought were just priceless that they can become, you know, a gif, a meme, whatever. they should happen. the first is, after he said -- opened up his comment with, you know, you claim that black people are superior to white people, is that true? she had this look like, cannot be that stupid. and the second was when she said, well, i wrote that when i was 19. and as a black student, at harvard, just so we understand who you're talking to. look. >> uh-huh. >> this is everything you -- you have said, leading up to this segment and then the segment about what we are looking at here. a credible, talented, gifted, black woman, who is about to get the job. and they can't stop it. i, very proudly, wrote a letter to all of them, on my side and
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the other side, on her behalf. because i've worked with her, i know her. she's competent. she's careful. she's consistent. and she cares about doing the right thing, for, yeah, our community, but for the entire country. >> yeah. >> so, they can't handle that. >> yeah. they can't, clearly. and meanwhile, mark, senator ron johnson decided, hold my beer. here he is doing a tucker-plus one and saying, replacement theory? hell yeah! >> this administration wants complete-open borders. and you have to ask yourself, why? is it really, they want to remake the demographics of america to ensure their -- that they stay in power forever? is that what's happening here? >> mark, why is replacement theory now mainstream in the republican party? what is happening? >> well, thanks for having me, as always, joy. they are desperate and they have
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nothing else to do. even this whole border thing, they have manufactured a crisis because they can't find a scandal that will stick to joe biden. they are counting on their voter-suppression plans. and kristen clark -- those. michael and joy, i am having a bit of déjà vu. you know, again, another determined and capable african-american woman, you know, there is a war against brilliant, african-american women, like kristen clark, whether they are attorneys or activists right now and we need to be mindful of that. but they -- they are desperate. they don't know what to do. they have no plan. they've presented no policy, no agenda. so they have to manufacture all of these false means. >> you know, michael, i am old enough to remember when the plan was to try to get more black folks to vote for republicans, right? and now, it appears that -- that instead, they're like, or, we'll
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just become a white-interest party. and see if we can dredge up more votes among angry people who are angry -- white folks who are angry about the demographic changes in america. it does feel like the party has decided that the future is to just be a white-interests party. and that seems like a dangerous place for a major-political party to be. >> at this point, after five years of donald trump, what else do you have left? you -- you have locked yourself in that corner. you have bought into that narrative. and now, as you noted, they're -- they're, you know, leveling up these theories on demographics and race. and here's the rub for senator johnson. just to help you out, brother. understand this. we don't need a theory. we don't need you to go pull some book. it's happening, in front of your eyes. right? black and brown people are growing in number. asian-community numbers are growing. so, you can't -- you can't stop people and their -- and their
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natural progression -- they having babies, man, all right? >> yeah. >> and there's -- they're being born here so you can't take their citizenship away. you can make all kind of noise you want at the border but the reality is the demographics of the country are changing. and you either get with that or you get rolled over by it, as a party and as a senator who is trying to do whatever you are trying to do. >> i mean, it's like george washington enslaving a thousand people, and calling them all washington, whatever their original names are. and then, people going well how come all the washingtons i meet are black? it's called math. let me go to you, mark. because i feel like the next sort of things that are going to set republicans off are already on the agenda. it's d.c. statehood that they are going to wig out over because that would be a majority-black state. it's the reparations bill, which you noted. we were texting about this yesterday. just passed through its first, like, test to get to the floor. on the reparations bill, specifically, how much of a war do you expect that to ignite?
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and do you expect the speaker to move forward on it, given the climate we are in right now? >> she has said, in the past, that she will. so, we're going to trust the speaker on that, for now. but we are going to make sure she knows that that's something that needs to happen. that is a heavy agenda and a when you talking about statehood reparations, in this context, but we welcome it, of course. in terms of reparations, it's interesting, because at the -- at the hearing last night, what was interesting. they debated reparations far less than they debated what they call court packing. they wanted to talk about -- and everyone kept saying that's not what we are here to talk about. that's not appropriate. it's not even been introduced as legislation. but they really didn't have an argument for reparations. in fact, every time they brought up something about slavery, they would blame the democrats. but the fact of the matter is, abraham lincoln was a
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republican. not only did he free the slaves. enslaved, i should say, if he had not been assassinated, we would have probably had reparations. >> fair. true. yeah. >> a specific argument. and we'll just have to see where goes. we are going to go forward and the senate doesn't pass, we will ask biden to do executive order. >> we -- we shall see. thank, both. that's tonight's reid out. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on all in. >> are we going to be here two years from now, wearing masks? >> i doubt -- i doubt -- >> dr. fauci the same question? >> let me -- let me -- you are ranting again. >> i'm not ranting. >> yes, you are. >> from wild ranting in congress to vaccine skeptics on cable. >> so, maybe, it doesn't work and they are simply not telling you that. >> tonight, the right-wing industrial complex harming america's pandemic response. then, today's big hearing about the failed response to the capitol attack.

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